: Lul, I was kidding, Gnar's W scales at a higher % then vaynes with a bonus dmg tacked on. I love gnar a bit more then vayne due to the more open playstyle.
Gnar's W doesn't come even close to Vayne's W.
bbQ s (EUW)
: Ivern is broken in the hands of a decent player. He's got 54% winrate this patch lol....
He's outdueled by... pretty much everyone? He has 0 escape?
LankPants (OCE)
: I'd prefer it if QSS just didn't upgrade. Taking QSS should be a conscious tradeoff and if you don't get to cleanse out of a CC it should just be bad.
: {{champion:40}} is comically overpowered right now in my opinion, but seeming as few people like playing a shield support, she isn't getting abused to high Hell as often as some other champions. She literally has a steady 55% winrate. I also do love me some Lew Lew. Enchanter supports in general.
Really? Judging champion, especially Janna by her win rate?
: I understand that Janna is probably overtuned but I would play against her any day of the week over Zyra/Malz/Brand etc Against those champions you literally cannot miss step once or you'll lose 3/4 of your HP and have to blow a sum or two. And God help you if their ADC has any CC of their own
Rioter Comments
Castanean (EUW)
: I mean, that's sort of, y'know... *Cheating?* Y'know that thing that gets you banned? Just because someone can cheat doesn't mean the mechanic is bad. Really, what it means is that the cheater is acknowledging that they're too bad to play around a mechanic specifically designed to help counter sneaky-cheeky stealth heroes.
Its basically undetectable as it doesnt interact with game itself. It just looks for patterns caused by cloak and highlights them
Castanean (EUW)
: I find stealth is a much more interesting mechanic when its done the way Heroes of the Storm did it, with very, very slight distortion where the hero is and since being hit brings you out of stealth you can actually do something about Nova being invisible. I mean, Akali's shroud leaving her completely invisible and not being brought out when hit is fine, because there's a limitation to it, something to play around. Shaco though? No. Fuck that shit. Shaco is especially bad IMHO because not only is it *invisibility*, but also a *flash*.
scripts are a thing. People in HOTS often use 3rd party software that detects such shimmers and basically reveal stealth
: His Q can be avoided by respecting the bounce range and priority order. W and R are both dodgeable. And you have no excuse to stay on E without being CC'd. And the only hard CC Jhin has to make you do that is dodgeable too. If he actually goes into autoattack range, he's going to get fucked over without amazing coordination from his team.
Yes, that's true when you look at his abilities, but look at his damage output. Im pretty sure over 60% of it comes from undodgeable AAs.
: Shhh, you're wasting your breath here. This is about as futile as trying to argue with an Ahri fanboy. I really don't know how anyone can look at this champion and with utmost serious say he isn't downright retarded.
51% winrate, low playrate. Off-meta and gets played extremely rarely in LCS. Must be OP, right?!
: far more burst damage than is justifiable on a champion with such extreme safety and low cooldowns, gets to be target agnostic with ridiculously high true damage, far less mana-intensive than Xerath and Lux despite having far more influence on a teamfight with his aoe too many strengths, not nearly enough weaknesses. but that's pretty much true for every mage. the only thing xerath and lux really have on him is the extreme range of their Rs, and maybe Lux having a shield. VK does everything else miles better
What you said its true. He has tons of damage, however unlike Lux or Xerath, he has to commit if he wants to do damage. Lux and Xerath have fire-and-forget abilities while VK has to combo. 2 of 4 of his abilities are unusable on their own. Using R draws even more aggro than Teemo
Nostormo (EUNE)
: I, personally am, it's just a personal thing, nothing all. The only time I feel safe against Assasin is later in game when I have {{summoner:21}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3026}} all up and that's just cancerous both for me and the enemy.
As a VK main never use these. Vision, mobility and 1500 range is the best
: i feel like i saw this thread yesterday... nice try mage main but vel'koz is OP
Where are your arguments? Why do you think he's OP?
: And even when pretty much all of the points you made could be applied to Jhin in their own appropriate way, people will lose their minds about Vel being balanced but Jhin being one of the most overpowered things since the bread slicer for sliced bread. Gameplay 2017 LUL
Jhin can apply most of his damage reliably (AA, Q) whereas Vel's stuff can be completely dodged. Vel has no guaranteed damage.
: Yea but Vel's win rate is skewed by Bots I think he is the #1 champ used with most scripts to
That would be Xerath... I've never seen scripting Vel'koz
: and build fucking support items that help your team. everytime i see a mage support rushing damage without building {{item:3116}} or{{item:3107}} {{item:3190}} we lose cause the adc has no peel or shields/heals for the entire team. there is a reason you can play mage supports. its cause your kit has so much base damage you dont need that much income. legit pls buy rylais and locket and stuff.
Dafuq i've just read. If you're not improving you damage/kill potential as mage support, you shouldn't picked a mage support in first place.
Aptest (EUW)
: are you sure you don't mean gauntlet of the permanent slow?
Wtf is with people flipping shit about Gauntlet on Ezreal? It's not even that good anymore, it's a niche alternative to TF
Nostormo (EUNE)
: I just expect it render Assasins unviable in my elo (solo) and I'll be able to play Vel'Koz again. That's all.
Squid is not gated by assassins that hard.
: Something I'm genuinely confused about
There are other, very important yet overlooked data that influence win rate/play rate. {{champion:40}} has always 52-54% win rate with 10% winrate, which indicates she's way too strong HOWEVER {{champion:412}} has 47-49% win rate with 27% play rate. Now, considering Janna and Thresh are exclusive (they are never on the same team), and the fact Janna hardcounters Thresh, you'll realize that Janna's winrate is inflated by Thresh. If we disable Thresh for a while, her win rate would plummet and she would fall down to 48-49% win rate. So, if more people would start to play Janna, her win rate would increase and Thresh's would decrease. Because of this, judging power of champion by his win rate is ridiculously inaccurate and stupid. This applies to almost every champion, so you if you change one champion (especially with high play rate) it will impact winrate of every champion in said role. This is the reason riot is so scared about changing very popular champions ({{champion:81}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:202}} )
: Maybe if they do it based on champion performance. Every A is a tier 3 rune, every S- and higher is a Quintessence rune. So new players cant just get handed free runes for going 0-12, but they will have to learn the game and get to a half decent level at it before they start earning runes.
Way too low, S for non-quint and S+ for quint
Rioter Comments
GIaceon (EUNE)
: Don't quote me on this because I have absolutely no clue if this is still true, but I'm pretty sure flat armor pen(aka lethality) and magic pen an go into the negatives. It's the % penetration that cannot (for obvious reasons).
They can't. Only flat reduction can do it
: Time for story #2: (It's much shorter) I was mid. I was playing Xerath into Vel'koz. I went 0/8/0 in lane. Like, holy shit how was I that bad? He snowballed so good, and I was so bad. He would 100-0 me so easily. I finished that game 20/9/x or something and WE WON. Yes, scaling is a factor. If my team had hard raged and flamed and called open mid, I'd get it and we'd have probably lost. But I owned up to my shit. I apologized, and despite the fact that my team WAS upset, we did come back.
To be honest, Vel'koz outscales Xerath and he's far better in teamfights. HOWEVER, he feels extremely good regardless of his score. You can kill 8/0 vel'koz very easily, but 0/8 VK can kill you easily as well. I think he's extremely well designed due to this.
: I thought you were gonna say "he'll break every pen item in the game, like Ezreal breaks every on-hit item in the game" or something on that line.
Ezreal doesn't break every on-hit item in game tho :/{{item:3091}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3115}} {{item:1416}} {{item:3087}} {
Quepha (NA)
: A slight amount of damage on the first auto does not make it interesting.
You call double damage "a slight amount"? I'll be damned.
: Yeah I don't think the marksmen are as weak as everyones trying to make them out to be.
this topic isn't discussing their power.
boo910 (NA)
: would turning sivirs richocet into her passive and make it only bounce 3 times make it unique?
It used to be like this. It was crap.
: {{champion:18}} is under-performing since outside of being good at pushing minions at early levels she doesn`t bring anything to the table. Kindred too unless you count her being a ult made out of 3 champion abilitys we had before unique.
she was used in tandem with mid-lane Ziggs to push turrets REALLY fast and really safely.
Anonagon (NA)
: Ezreal is definitely lacking if you don't consider his Q as filling that goal. Urgot is similar if you want to treat him as an ADC (though I personally view him as a mage). I think Kindred is also lacking. Yes, she has her %current damage, but since its a persistent physical damage on-hit, its not noticeably separate from her base auto damage the way that something like Vayne's W is.
Ezreal isn't auto-attack focused ADC tho. He's much more of an AD caster than marksmen
: I can't really tell where they went. They kind of just squiggle across the screen and the only reason I know they actually went through is because they took a chunk of damage after the combo. Ez's autos hit hard, but they look like wet noodles.
I'd say Trist/Twitch/Cait have even less visible autos
: Maybe then, if riot REALLY wants to force him into crit, they can give his W and / or Q crit chance and reduced base damage. I don't know how to fix it 100%, but what I do know is that these lethality builds are not healthy for the game, at least on ADC's.
Why would he double-dip from crit? Crit already gives him AD, which in turn gives him QWER damage
Iriya (OCE)
: This whole "open mid" culture is fucking retarded
It's like people forgot how to play from behind... instead of learning it, they go full retard and start doing stupid shit or intentionally throw.
: however riot included drake permabuffs this alone gives an amount of stats thats worth tons of gold which you can never equalize that is something you sometimes cannot comeback from at all even if you drag it out to 40 mins somehow
Drakes aren't as strong as people claim them to be, especially when it comes to teamfights.
: I was in my promos when we opened mid. Our Trynd went 0/3 in 7 minutes and then left. What else is there to do?
I've been playing since pre-S1 and i won even 3v5 games. Its hard but definitely possible, especially if you know what you are doing.
: Open mid is the best thing that could've happened to this game from the community Most games are that start off badly are unwinnable first tower win rate alone is like 70-75%, that's not even counting kills/dragons It's called statistics
First tower win rate was ~70% since the beginning of League.
: You aren't wrong. But they move so weird that I can't tell if I'm attacking or if I'm just an ape who can't play Ezreal.
How so? I never had problem with Ezreal's autos. I mean, you have to learn how to weave them into rotation. It's a known fact Ezreal's Q scales with AD, AP and MMR, because if you can't weave autos into Qs you'll get the dreaded "Ezreal hits like wet noodle" syndrome
: Kennan is not a marksman
That's debatable. He was used as one, plus he has really good base stats to back it up. He's more of an ADC than Quinn is
Quepha (NA)
: I think Varus, Ezreal, Tristana, Corki, and Miss Fortune all have pretty bland autos. I don't really play Varus but his two auto passives seem very weird and anti-thetical to how people actually play him.
MF has bland autos? Dude what? Varus could use full-scale rework into something similar to Xerath or Velkoz, just AD.
Sozan5 (EUNE)
: First of all, League of Legends official website: http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/ Just check the Marksman thingy. And Marksman definition: >A marksman is a ranged attacker that sacrifices defensive power and utility to focus on dealing strong, continuous damage to individual targets. Typically focused on using their basic attacks more than their abilities, marksmen have the capability to scale and deal out devastating levels of damage in the late phase of any game. So yeah, all of them are (or have potential to be) marksman. Though, I'd say Kennen is mostly a burst mage, while Teemo and Azir are disruptors, I guess.
By that definition Azir is a marksmen. He's late-game ranged DPS monster capable of projecting his attacks onto multiple targets
: Ezreal's autos don't really feel like they are there. I have trouble noticing if they even went through and did damage a lot of the time.
However, Ezreal's autos are EXTREMELY important. People who play him as Qbot are just terrible
Quepha (NA)
: Here's a list of some "average" Ezreals according to you from probuilds.net: * Eryon * MrRalleZ * Rakin * Bang * k1ng * Hi Im Gosu * brTT * Ruler * Cry * LOD * Ranger * Jinjiao * Yoda Here's a list of all the "great" Ezreals I've found so far on probuilds.net according to your criteria: * Maybe some day the players on the first list will finally learn how to become great Ezreals, but it looks like for now they're still just average scrubs.
Proplay arguments? Again? Go on and show me how good are Reksai, Azir or pre-nerf Nidalee in soloq. Riiight. Ezreal with W at level 13 has higher soloq winrate than standard level 4 W.
: In your opinion, which is why you'll never be great. You're chained to your own opinions like they're the end of all things. Every LCS player that's used Ezreal in the last year would whole-heartedly disagree with your view on this matter. As a Support Main, I keep my self in position for an Ezreal to do so, because it's part of his rotation. His passive can not be ignored, and you really shouldn't find excuses to make yourself weaker.
You're not playing LCS. LCS is much more about teamplay. In early game, you don't need your passive as much because your AAs hit like wet noodles. If you want to sustain it, you can via Q farming, but 90% of early game trades consists of auto->Q->E->auto, which deals shitton of damage and procs thunderlord. Not leveling W allows your E to have significantly lower CD and higher damage. In late game, where your W's AS boost starts to matter you already have it as you are past level 13. Even then using it for damage sucks - it even lowers your DPS as long you are at max stacks (which you definitely should be)
: Because AP Ezreal.
RIP AP ezreal :/ If only he had SOME waveclear... he could be average mid-laner, but he's just unusable with zero waveclear.
: If you aren't using it to keep your passive charged up, you are Average.
if you need W to keep your passive charged up, you're worse than average
Quepha (NA)
: You don't like killing towers or dragons before level 13?
20% bonus AS for your teammates won't make a difference when it comes to dragon, especially when YOU are the ADC so only champion who benefits from AS is your jungler, assuming he actually scales well with AS (Vi, Shyvanna for example) Ooh, btw. Ezreal's QEQEQR has higher winrate than QEQWQR
: ? An ability that does some damage and buffs your allies and yourself. How is that bad?
Not worth taking pre-13. Using it for damaging champions is REALLY bad, the only good thing it has its the AS
: you can use your W to hit multiple enemies and stack up your passive, or to buff allies' attack speed
You can even use it to buff yourself directly, but its still crap ability.
: Attack speed steroid.
Ezreal's autos hurt like wet noodles pre-muramana. By the time you got it you'll be at least lvl 13
Rebonack (NA)
: You W yourself late game when you need to dive/all-in someone. The extra attack speed it gives isn't negligible.
: Nah-nah-nah You gotta think of it this way. Q: Skillshot W: Thundelords E: Dive Tool R: Kill-Steal
Thunderlords? Wut. Ezreal has no problems proccing thunderlords
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