: Mastery Scores should give suggestions for improvement
suggested improvements to help you achieve an S: ADC: Stop dieing Mage: roam more Tank: Die more Diver: back off Assassin: stop being a chicken Support: Roll a natural 20, then pass a confirmation roll.
: graves and his cigar say hi
Sivir's pink hair is calling. . .
: I mean, yes, actually. Case in point, Sona when she had even half decent base stats terrorized solo queue, but then nerfing the "classic" supports leads to champs from other roles that have excessively strong base stats being top picks (see Annie support in season 4). Supports as a general role are WAY too dependent on stat checking, since there is too much overlap in how they express their strengths and weaknesses. Newer supports like {{champion:201}} and {{champion:432}} get around this since they have much more unique identities and can be effective in their niche without being stronger in a stat check. Even a couple older support champs like {{champion:53}} can be effective outside that frame of reference because he's the only support that offers the level of engage safety he provides. Meanwhile *every other support* or champ used in the role boils down to "do I out-damage, out-sustain, or out-CC my counterpart?" Even Soraka, who's supposed to be League's premiere healer, is only on par for sustain compared to the likes of a Karma or Janna, meanwhile Mage supports leave you with whatever the current burst+utility mage without scalings happens to be. Tanks are basically pick your flavor of "I jump on them and hold them still" or "I keep them from sitting on you" Supports need the class overhaul next, but in a teardown start from the ground up direction where literally everything about what defines a support is scrapped and redone from scratch.
>Supports need the class overhaul next, but in a teardown start from the ground up direction where literally everything about what defines a support is scrapped and redone from scratch. And this is where the masses start down-voting you into oblivion. Speaking from experience.
: "ADC in 2k17 lul"
>someone kills an ad carry, oh well that's cuz the role is garbage. ADC kills *anyone* under *any circumstance,* "Working as intended." ADC doesn't die to anyone under any circumstanced, "balanced." Make a somewhat sarcastic comment in a thread, "Downvote because we disagree." Welcome to the LoL community.
: To those who keeps saying Lethality should outscale tanks Let me tell you this
>To those who keeps saying Lethality should outscale tanks Who says this? offense outscales defense by design. Lethality is supposed to negate base stats, %pen/shred is supposed to mitigate resist stacking. >There are SPECIFIC champions in the GAME called TANK KILLER. Pen/shred items are counter-***BUILD***, champions are counter-***pick***. Riot doesn't want games decided by counter-picking, so this argument is functionally flawed.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: Feb 21
A bit off topic, but in regards to the vanguard update: Why not shift resists to a base+% system like AS or MS? (At least, it doesn't sound like this is the plan.)
: Pffhahahaha
<Insert Marksman meta> *"why don't we have a tank?"* Cries the marksman main. *"You wanted to be stronger,"* says the support player. -------------- <Insert Ziggs meta> *"He has too much ranged harass,"* cries the marksman main. *"then stop getting poked down,"* says the the tank player.
Aptest (EUW)
: Noted. The Janna mains have rallied and now i am in trouble?
Support main, actually. I don't main any champion. But I enjoy playing Janna. Can't speak for the others.
: Nothing new about it, or you might not have been around for any of the previous tank support cycles where everyone cried for months that they couldn't play anything but {{champion:12}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:44}} etc. Basically any champ that has abusive base stats and can get away with minimal gold investment tends to break the support role.
So support champions can't have strong base stats because they become oppressive. . . >Rito: *"Don't worry, we can fix that by giving support role laner-level gold and utility scaling."* ><Insert Panthion, Olaf, Syndra, Rammus... support here.> >Rito: *"Well.... That was unexpected. Ok, we're taking away most of the gold."* >Players: *"What about the utility scaling?"* >Rito: *"We still want supports to have a late game fantasy."* >{{item:3070}} {{champion:37}} {{item:3070}} >~ Pre-season 4. . . . The support role can't have gold because supports will never see play. ------------ About time we started looking at LoL foundationally to start fixing this, Riot.
: I hate how it's like botlane isn't even decided by teamwork anymore. It's just who has the stronger support.
>I hate how it's like bot lane isn't even decided by teamwork anymore. Are we done acknowledging the 4/5-man rape fests now?
: "I get blown up too quickly" cries a marksmen main, "now you know why we don't play traditional supports anymore" says a support player.
<Insert tank meta> *"I don't do enough damage,"* cries the marksman main. *"Now try not building any,"* says the support player.
Aptest (EUW)
: however, this is specifically **you**
: I want a tank Meta, because I'm sick of the Snowball Meta.
Lets us all embrace the return of ward cheering.
Ququroon (NA)
: I tried to pick the 'best' option for each champion, so it isn't a one-size fits all solution. I tried to stick to Idle variants more often than not, because Idle animations play infrequently, whereas emotes could play many times in a game.
>I tried to pick the 'best' option for each champion, so it isn't a one-size fits all solution. I look forward to watching Ziggs dance his way back to base. XD
: Wait, 2? I knew about the Q reset, but is there another one?
Q resets her timer on-cast *and* on-AA. Technically a bug (I think) that's been around since her release. Her E also has an AA reset on dash, but it's barely faster than her base AS with the cast animation. But the resets are why AD Leona is actually stronger than AP. Instant triple-AA every 4 seconds add up. Especially when you start throwing cleaver and hydra into the mix.
: I kinda hope they change how killing wards work. Right now high attack speed or autoattack resets are optimal for killing wards, but few supports have AS steroids or AA resets at low cost. It's definitely better than giving wards a flat amount of HP, but it doesn't make supports better at killing wards. A quick fix could be Sightstone providing extra attack speed when attacking wards, but personally I'd like to see channeling for a short moment to kill wards.
>Right now high attack speed or autoattack resets are optimal for killing wards, but few supports have AS steroids or AA resets at low cost. {{champion:89}} Ooh, that's a fancy ward you just placed. Be a shame if I had 2 AA resets on Q.
: some things are consistent, that's why there's now 4 upvotes in a thread with 0 content. There's SOMETHING there just not in the usual form. The difference is that more than 9 people join into every conversation that happens in a forum and ideas spread faster. The idea of what should and shouldn't e able to kill an adc is one of them and a lot of people understand that adcs should die really hard. How to compensate for this? That's a discussion for another time
>, that's why there's now 4 upvotes in a thread with 0 content. There's SOMETHING there just not in the usual form. Up/down-votes are a measure of popularity. Nothing more. There doesn't have to be anything of any depth of significance to get upvotes. Just look at M&G's and all the crap it vomits onto the front page every day.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2iEONJ8Y,comment-id=000200000000000100010001,timestamp=2017-02-19T21:28:12.840+0000) > > I&#x27;m just used to dealing with DD, It's not that hard I would SO turn the above quoted into innuendo... and you know I would, but that would undermine my entire argument against this 'very intelligent' person I am against within this thread. ARRRGGHHH it's killing me on the inside not to be able to make that joke because it's so obvious, BUT OKAY, I WILL REFRAIN.
Don't worry. We all know you're just a softy deep down. No need to be shy. You can let it out. ;p
: if it can't kill an adc it probably needs buffs
{{champion:16}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:201}} BUFF US!
: > [{quoted}](name=YerroFever,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2iEONJ8Y,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-18T16:57:01.576+0000) > It appears as though you have a problem with &quot;gay&quot; and &quot;sexual act&quot; however the problem is that you are inserting sexual acts into the word &quot;gay&quot; that aren&#x27;t there > [{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2iEONJ8Y,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2017-02-19T18:25:44.471+0000) > Being gay does not mean having sex. > No sexually explicit comments were made. No ToS agreements were violated. > > ---------------- > > http://ci.memecdn.com/6161391.gif I find this hilarious that the same arguments are made but are just obstinately opposed solely because it is made by me vs made by someone else.
I'm just used to dealing with DD. It's not that hard once you figure out this one easy trick. . . . It can be yours too for only 99 easy payments of 99.99.99!
: > [{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2iEONJ8Y,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-02-17T15:12:28.039+0000) > > Do we really need to know what you do in your bedroom? keep that shit out of League of Legends. > > League of Legends is about League of Legends. Why should one have to hide who they are? It's OK for Olean to come out to the community as gay. The community overall supports LGBT players and has shown little tolerance to homophobic slurs. You don't hide that you disagree with what someone does in their bedroom. It's OK, you can come out as a homophobe.
Here, let me help. ------------------------------ @DD: Terms of service. > v. Transmitting or communicating any content which, in the sole and exclusive discretion of Riot Games, is deemed offensive, including language that is ... *sexually* ***explicit***, ..., or otherwise objectionable; "gay" >1. of, relating to, or exhibiting sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex; homosexual: 2. of, indicating, or supporting homosexual interests or issues: . . . "Homoexual" > noun 1. a person who is sexually attracted to members of the same sex Being gay does not mean having sex. No sexually explicit comments were made. No ToS agreements were violated. ---------------- http://ci.memecdn.com/6161391.gif
Denarius (NA)
: It's so fun watching everyone on a team pop edge of night constantly
>So blessed are we to have you guys balancing this game. Would you rather they not balance the game at all? We could enjoy release Xin Zou still 1v5ing all game, release Yorik having the lowest damage in the game, and Sona still having as much health as a cannon minion. Lets not the forget Ye old Ward cheering.
: Why do Ad champs get 3 MR with AD options, and AP champs get 1 armor with AP option?
Wow, this is coming up more than usual, lately. > [{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MUk82bNH,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-01-20T05:37:27.158+0000) > > {{item:3139}} > > Riot addressed this a while back. They want itemization characteristics to be different between types. For example: AP is characterized by getting a lot of health for their defense and reaching really high values late game, while AD gets resists and crit, tanks get health+resists and supplemental damage boosts (Such as Sunfire, Deadman&#x27;s, and thorn), and supports get sustain + strong team effects. > That&#x27;s why AD doesn&#x27;t get stasis. > > And before &quot;that guy&quot; shows up, this post is *not* about the current state of itemization.
Ackelope (NA)
: so just save up the relatively meager 800 gold you need to buy it. it's really inefficient to sell the bf sword, especially since it'll get built into something later on. unless you're in some super immediate circumstance, it's better to wait and save up for items that cost that little.
>relatively meager 800 gold {{item:3070}} {{champion:40}} {{item:3070}}
: Eh, not for all items, though. Locket, for example, is plenty strong on its own at a base level (and needs some sort of addressing honestly. The thing can block like 3k damage in a game).
>The thing can block like 3k damage in a game). Don't worry, the end of game stats only track life loss. So far as I can tell, the shields do nothing and the item needs buffs! XD *(I know it's on the item during game.)*
: {{champion:86}} Sup bitches I heard I'm an assassin now.
: Wish he had a way of choosing which target he wants to be most effective against then, instead of being made to go after the support who accidentally KS'd.
>instead of being made to go after the support who accidentally KS'd. {{champion:89}} "Accident." Ya, let's go with that.
: Loool. Reminiscing on Youtube?
Or I'm just an old salt taking a stroll down memory lane. One of the two. XD
: Level 16? Are you high? Try level 14. You almost never got rank 3 ult.
I watched silver games, where everything doesn't get decided by the first 216 team fights. ;p (Bronze, the "support" Zed hits 18 first.)
: lol, because snowballing. Late game is best defined by all champions reaching final build with maybe 1 exception on each team. Just because one champion on each team got ahead of the rest of the team, and finished their build by 30 minutes doesn't mean you've entered the late game.
>Late game is best defined by all champions reaching final build ***with maybe 1 exception on each team.*** Everyone full build. Support still lvl 16. Ah, the good ol days.
: Riot, you should focus a few patches on making 'late game' a realistic scenario again.
But there is a late game now. It happens at about 15 minutes. (>_>)
: {{item:3033}} The anti-Mundo.
{{champion:40}} But why am ***I*** the only one building it every time!?
kasfas (NA)
: Issue, when a full lethality build is shredding almost as much armour as BC, to a target with 400 armour there is a MASSIVE issue. Lethality should shred through a champions base armour values, not be more effective than an item DESIGNED to be good against tanks until 400 armour. Besides, not that many tanks actually get that much armour, it's more around 300 armour at most generally. So effectively lethality is penetrating better than BC unless you're playing malphite or rammus
>Lethality should shred through a champions base armour values It does. Lowest values at lvl 18 are Mini-Gnar-65.5, Oriana-68.04, Azir/Heimer-70.04, Zyra-71.04. (Ignoring Thresh) If you invest in every lethality option there is, you can reduce about 1/2 the roster to roughly 0 base armor. Frozen heart *alone* negates all the game's lethality. And we're not even looking at effective health. >ssue, when a full lethality build is shredding almost as much armour as BC, to a target with 400 armour there is a MASSIVE issue. BC shreds up to 30%. That's 280 armor off a 400 armor target. A difference of 194.61 from max possible lethality. For BC to reach 85.4 shred (Max lethality), the target would need 122 armor. Assuming you don't want to hold a dirk at full build, max lethality becomes 75.4. Meaning the target would need about 108 armor for BC to match (75.6 shred exactly). Rammus has the highest base armor at lvl 18 with 104.484. With no items, BC shreds 73.1388. Meaning, even on him, Lethality is doing it's job of shredding base armor better than bonus. ***EDIT:*** Mortal reminder. For Mortal Reminder to reach 85.4 pen, the target would need about 155.25 bonus armor (85.3875 exact shred). So while you could potentially make a case for lethality being more effective than Last Whisper chain, LW is meant specifically for resist stackers. That kind that aren't necessarily worried about damage. . . . You know. . . "Tanks". ---------------------------------- And so I reiterate. >Therefore, the complaint should be about the ability to easily access both. Not that one of them is too effective against what it isn't effective against.
Takito (NA)
: {{champion:6}} {{champion:6}} But people would love to see my Urgot in ranked!{{champion:6}} {{champion:6}} Right...? RIGHT?
Unicorns would Love it. Especially VS Zed.
: You miss the point. On paper lethality is bad vs tanks. In practice, it is being stacked with % shred and pen, and due to the INCREASE in the pool of available flat pen, the sheer amount you can stack becomes overwhelming when combined with % pen and reduction (which is what IS happening) The stat is TOO efficient vs multiple tank comps. i am not saying that Tanks are getting oneshot, but due to the overwhelming availability of penetration, Lethality abusers are not being punished accordingly. Further support for this: Full AD comps are doing fine right now. Not suffering against tanks. EDIT: here is some math I had done on pen builds vs a 400 armor target. this applies largely to Pen ADC's since nobody else is really fully stacking cleaver with ease. a 400 armor target (300 of which is bonus) will lose 110% of their bonus (items runes masteries) armor: (30% of total) 90 from Cleaver = 310 135 armor from LW item (bonus armor (45% of 300) is counted in full value regardless of reduction, since bonus and total armor are calculated seperately) = 175 34 lethality runes and masteries ( Flat Armor Penetration = LETHALITY × (0.6 + 0.4 × Target's level ÷ 18) ) = 141 50 lethality from items (Flat Armor Penetration = LETHALITY × (0.6 + 0.4 × Target's level ÷ 18)) = 91 armor. 400 armor straight to 91. So slightly shy of 110%, but still more than 100% and absolutely absurd.
As I said before, ***% PEN*** is for tanks. It shreds them to a ridiculous degree. Your previous claim was only about tenacity. *Tenactiy* is pretty inefficient against *tanks* as intended. %pen is inefficient against squishies, as intended. They both are meant to shred the other. Therefore, the complaint should be about the ability to easily access both. Not that one of them is too effective against what it isn't effective against, ***EDIT:*** Clarification.
: Let me rephrase. Lethality SHOULD be inefficient if facing multiple tanks. It currently is not.
{{item:3147}} 15 {{item:3814}} 15 {{item:3142}} 20 {{item:3134}} 10 Masteries: 8.5 max runes: 6.72(quint)+10.17(mark): 16.89 Total: 85.39 \--------------------------------------------- {{item:3110}} 90 armor {{item:3143}} {{item:3047}}: 90 armor Frozen heart also costs less than any of the other items except Dirk and Tabi. Lethality it pretty inefficient against tanks.
: Tired of the Meta?
If going TT, don't get too comfortable. Riot has been slowly killing it off ala Dominion. Not too long ago they officially admitted they don't care about champion balance.
Saianna (EUNE)
: > RIOT has created: How dare you! Riot has not created ARAM. They just picked it up from fans. They hardly give a flying fuck about this game mode at this point. Well they only revisit ARAM on winter sales when they gotta stack some of cash for overpriced skins. I'm expecting you to change that part. Shit. I'm offended like all hell now.
Calm friend. At least ARAM isn't going anywhere for a while. Riot is busy killing TT first.
1Kn0wY0u (EUW)
: To me it feels like TT has a smaller 'META-championpool', less viable champions.
That's because of Riot's (now official) policy of, "If SR is balanced, all game modes are balanced. Just a matter of time before they finish dominioning it.
: I miss Jinx being meta. Was fun to play as / alongside, and has very clear counterplay.
>I miss Jinx being meta. I don't miss my turret being vaporized into fine mist just because I got back to lane 5 seconds late after recharging my SS. . . . Probably because it goes down anyways after the 4th 4-man raid at 4:50 minutes. But I digress.
: THIS. The lethality buffs made it so buying lethality is not inefficient vs multiple tanks. Removing the drawback of lethality brings us back to the same issue of old armor pen: Buying it snowballs you simply by absurd gold efficiency. Blah blah scaling blah blah. The efficiency is too high.
>The lethality buffs made it so buying lethality is not inefficient vs multiple tanks. Lethality isn't meant for tanks. Flat pen is meant for squishies, % pen is meant for tanks. Over-tuned or not, it *is* working as intended.
: "Shyvana is a juggernaut who's ult lets her sometimes be a diver" -Riot
Nope. Sion is warden who's ult lets him sometimes run away. #***"COOOOOOWAAAAAAAAAARD!"***
: why do people ask if they are alone like there isn't someone who will agree with them literally no matter what they say
Computers do not exist. It is impossible to post on the LoL forums.
: What are Lee Sin's weaknesses?
Player skill. It keeps his win rate across all elos (combined) low, which gives riot an excuse to buff him every season. Even though for every other champion they only reference win rates at plat+. (>_>)
Chetork (NA)
: Next Support Champion...?
>I understand Riot wants to delay the next champion until after the galio rework, which is fine. 2 different teams. That's just how the timelines worked out.
Chetork (NA)
: Oh wow lol sorry completely missed it but thinking on your point. Last "pure" support we got was bard 2 years and a month ago... Feelsbadman
Back when they released about 1 champion per month, the promise was 1 per year. So that would mean 1 support every 12 champs. So with 7 champions out, we're still relatively on track. But the technical promise was a support "champion" not a champion for support "role" (same thing back then). So while I wouldn't count Tahm, Ivern definitely qualifies. So assuming the old standards apply (lol), we're looking at approximately another 12 releases until we get another support.
: I can't believe I never knew my one equal made threads like these. I feel like I just discovered he was cheating on me.
Month old, mate. Get with the times. ;p
: > [{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gn2igRGO,comment-id=0000000000000003,timestamp=2017-02-13T18:33:10.042+0000) > > I&#x27;m not going to speak on current balance state. > But the reason AP items don&#x27;t have a lot of resists is because their defense stat is supposed to be health. yeah except ONLY health dones't help when they do true damage to you. and even with the 50 armor from zhonyas that is about 100 armor max. and when they have 75 lethaility.. that pretty much means your taking true damage.
>yeah except ONLY health dones't help when they do true damage to you. Actually, health is the only thing that *does* help when taking true damage. Since true damage ignores resists. >that is about 100 armor max. and when they have 75 lethaility.. that pretty much means your taking true damage. 25 armor is still 12.5% Damage reduction.
: Don't forget {{champion:104}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:238}} all building cleaver as well
{{champion:40}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3123}} {{item:3091}} {{item:2045}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3069}} Apparently I'm an ADC now. . . . Useless F'ing sheep.
: > [{quoted}](name=CancerBasedGod,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gn2igRGO,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-02-13T02:24:27.928+0000) > > Yeah but if you try to tell people that armor counters it they say lethality will just negate all armor... You&#x27;re left there thinking &quot;I can factually prove that&#x27;s BS&quot; but before you finish typing a simplified version you hope they can understand, the next lethality op thread is made. Seriously lethality may be slightly op against targets that can&#x27;t build armor, but if you just play Leona instead of mage support you will be laughing. well seeing as the ONLY ap item with armor is {{item:3157}} ... and ADC dont build armor... and AD don't have ANY AD + armor options... umm yeah its an issue... you CAN'T just by an armor item to counter it, for the same reason you cant buy {{item:2055}} to counter stealth when everyone reaches max items... item slots. they are getting the stat on offensive items... there are no good defensive options vs this unless u get an item that does not increase your damage. (unless your {{champion:33}} getting AD from armor..)
> well seeing as the ONLY ap item with armor is {{item:3157}} ... I'm not going to speak on current balance state. But the reason AP items don't have a lot of resists is because their defense stat is supposed to be health. > [{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MUk82bNH,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-01-20T05:37:27.158+0000) > > {{item:3139}} > > Riot addressed this a while back. They want itemization characteristics to be different between types. For example: AP is characterized by getting a lot of health for their defense and reaching really high values late game, while AD gets resists and crit, tanks get health+resists and supplemental damage boosts (Such as Sunfire, Deadman&#x27;s, and thorn), and supports get sustain + strong team effects. > That&#x27;s why AD doesn&#x27;t get stasis. > > And before &quot;that guy&quot; shows up, this post is *not* about the current state of itemization.
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Ariel the Cruel

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