: Are you joking? Have you not seen the threads with falsified numbers. (such as one clamming all 5 lethality items could reduce 600 armor to only 100, it can not.) Have you not seen the threads where they cry for it to be melee only?
There aren't 5 lethality items but I'm sure you meant penetration items. Did you do the math yourself for different results?
Rioter Comments
dominusx (EUNE)
: if you pick kog atm you are Inting.
have you played kog'maw ever in your life? (besides his 2 week spotlight early last season)
: It's probably since the fact that you build a defensive item on him. I understand buying a tank item as your 4th or 5th item but not sooner then that. Also I find {{item:3078}} a very strong item on him and it's what I'd build on him. I know that most people build {{item:3091}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3124}} but I just feel it takes way to long to really get that and start scaling + you aren't really that strong in a fight until you get off a decent amount of auto attacks to stack your {{item:3124}} {{item:3091}}. With the meta being "Who can abuse Lethality the hardest and snowball first wins" and you see {{champion:107}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:126}} in almost every game, if any of them look at you, you die and won't get off any of your damage. That is not to mention all the other strong lethality users that can kill you in 1-2 seconds, most of which from way longer range then your auto attack {{champion:202}} {{champion:21}}. While I don't play Kog'maw to much so yea maybe you'll say that I don't know what I'm talking about but I'd personally think something like {{item:3078}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3009}}
triforce doesn't scale besides ad from sheen (no longer builds out of zeal so cant' scale with crit). maybe instead of suggesting your "looks good on paper" cookie cutter build, try it out in several matches and then comment on how successful it is and how " {{item:3078}} a very strong item on him and it's what I'd build on him." also triforce is EXTREMELY expensive for an item that doesn't scale that well on kog'maw
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: Feb 22
Exhaust is too strong in a damage oriented meta, which makes sense. the nerf is a joke
: The reason people say "ADC in 2k17 lul"
: That actually does kind of make sense, and doesn't use blatantly false arguments. Congratulations, you are apparently the only one who can make an EoN thread without making a total jackass of yourself.
Give an example of an argument (about lethality items) that makes someone sound like a jackass. Anyone even contesting that the efficiency of lethality, in a snowball/early game meta, is underpowered is mistaken.
: About the, "Nerf X Ad caster champion!" Threads that have been so popular lately.
> But when riot makes too many changes at once without being able to test how the individual changes affect the situation they almost always wind up overcorrecting. however, they're completely ok with introducing more problematic items/masteries/champions and encourage mage supports/carries botlane
: Its a joke you smartasses.
bless u. I am happy that a few of us will succeed in reproducing
: link to where you saw this
NA and their lack of comprehending sarcasm. The OP is reeking with it
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: Feb 21
so nothing about major problems in the game? whats the point of these quick thoughts? does it take too long to think about lethality, jayce, malzahar botlane, etc. ?
: Varus has mobility? Jhin has mobility? Their repercussion is having crap for attack speed and no crit, and in Jhin's case, no auto attacking at all for 2.5s after 4 shots. And if you have lifesteal and are fed, you literally melt them in 2 seconds or less while healing back all the damage dealt by them. Also why are you in the front lines to be hit by their CC in the first place? Varus' Q also decreases in damage per successive enemy hit. And Kog is in a disappointing state right now anyways as are most of the other crit/attack speed reliant ADCs.
varus has a slow and root (something i like to call anti-mobility) and jhin has a MS steroid on crits and when he lands W, as well as ult slowing down enemies by 80% for .75 seconds (so a total of 3 seconds if all bullets hit). varus doesn't have crap for attack speed: see passive. jhin, as a spell caster/weaver, isn't gated by hit lack of attack speed since 1) 4th shot (crits) give him MS to kite 2) 4th shot -> reload animation in which you can Q or W. Q has a 550 range (which happens to be the same as his attack range) and is on a 5 second cooldown which is perfect for another full rotation of AAs. if jhin was truly gated, he would need to either lose the MS boost from his passive or decrease the damage on 4th shot or increase cooldown/mana cost on his abilities. additionally, since you say that heavy attack speed champions destroy jhin in 2 seconds, why aren't there more of those champions being played? i'm not in the front line. i said in the OP that jhin flashed forward to 4th auto + Q me. if we were in a 1v1 situation, its not difficult for jhin/varus to combo kog'maw since kog'maw has lowest MS, doesn't build move speed items and relies on doing damage to proc SS. i am okay with playing vs jhin/varus but literally every game makes it extremely stale. this is why NA is garbage bc they milk the cow so hard w/o taking time to master champions.
: You stated, "no matter how ahead I am". It doesn't matter how ahead you are if you don't buy armor. Of course flat armorpen will kill a squishy carry without any bonus armor outside of rune seals. The only difference would be if you could kill them before they killed you. But it doesn't make you even the slightest bit meaningfully tankier whether you're 0/0 or 1000/0 if you don't buy any defensive items. They _should_ always be able to kill you easily unless you buy armor. If you're more fed than them, you'll probably kill them first. But if you misplay, you deserve to die. Same for them in a flipped scenario.
maybe i should have provided context. no matter how far ahead i am with kog'maw, whether that be 1-2 kills or 5, i rarely am able to out trade varus/jhin. why? they have mobility, they have cc, they abuse lethality, and they have poke with no repercussion. on the flipside, if i build glass cannon kog'maw (just like they build glass cannon lethality excluding EoN) i cannot 1) catch up to them due to the cc they provide 2) cannot poke them besides the limp damage from ult 3) cannot out damage them unless I have 6 stacks on Rageblade and Stormraiders surge proc'd. and if all else fails for them, they can flash/cc/MS boost to safety, press R and win the trade.
: Because it doesn't mean a flying fuck if you're ahead but don't buy any armor. What, do you expect being ahead and full damage makes you tankier?
im sorry but doesn't damage outscale tankiness? whats with all the hostility? don't bring your shitty day at work here
Ralanr (NA)
: Oh no, they're learning.
the funny part was that i was AHEAD and instead of buying my normal items i opted to buying armor because no matter how ahead i am vs champions like jhin/varus (with lethality) they will always be able to kill me. which is the problem
Rioter Comments
: The same people who keep chanting "Give us a tank meta!"...
Bring on the Tank Meta. I'm ready {{champion:96}}
: Why would I want to pick Lucian for building crit when I can play hypercarries like vayne, jinx, and twitch? CRIT is a late game stat, and a champion with no range modifiers isn't right for CRIT. Sivir and Kog both have utility for late game for their short range. Besides, Sivir W can bounce off tanks and damage the back line. Kog's has e and r to cover up for his downtime damage on w.
Kog'Maw has anything but utility.
: The whole point of crit is to have dps late game. As lucian you can't dps if you're at 500 range. If you are in 500 range, I'll probably be exhausted and bursted instantly. it's better to go AD at this point because as AD you can actually do damage from afar (aka culling). That's why Jhin and Varus are picked almost all the time in the LCS. It's because they can do damage from afar and not get bursted instantly. That's also why they go lethality instead of crit.
Kog'Maw, Lucian, and Sivir all have 500 range. Kog'Maw may have an exception because his W gives him the biggest range in the game at level 5 but its only conditional (since it's on cooldown). Sivir does fine since she's more utility (perhaps DPS as well with her W). What do you think Lucian built in the previous seasons where armor pen was an undervalued stat?
: @Meddler, Any Info on Lucian?
why dont you build him crit?
: Practice tool could use some touch ups.
yeah I do huge amount of damage when testing {{champion:96}}
MysterQ (NA)
: Kog has a bug with Tear. I was building Tear and J think pieces of GRageblade. My autoattacks started stacking tear mana.... It was glorious and I was able to replicate it in a custom game. I am not sure what piece of equipment it was though. It takes Tear plus an unknown item to have autos start stacking with Kog. If I find out I would try to post again. And test it on other people. Only telling you because if you like Kog it might be something to look into for fun. It was in 2016 when Kog was free. Not sure if my match history would have it still.
i could not replicate this. can you give me more info on how you did it in a custom game
MysterQ (NA)
: Kog has a bug with Tear. I was building Tear and J think pieces of GRageblade. My autoattacks started stacking tear mana.... It was glorious and I was able to replicate it in a custom game. I am not sure what piece of equipment it was though. It takes Tear plus an unknown item to have autos start stacking with Kog. If I find out I would try to post again. And test it on other people. Only telling you because if you like Kog it might be something to look into for fun. It was in 2016 when Kog was free. Not sure if my match history would have it still.
did you just have tear or manamune? because manamune stacks tear via passive. i'll have to test it out! (also don't tell everyone/anyone about the bug)
Rebonack (NA)
: lolanalytics seems to maintain a pretty up to date data set. The free-week has absolutely wrecked AP Kog mid.
doesnt give data at all ranks tho
Rioter Comments
Ultîma (NA)
: @Riot; nerf Lethality, then look at individual champions
Jhin and MF were fine before Armor Penetration/Lethality was meta
: watch somebody blame lethality even though both were god tier adcs half of last season
jhin was but not varus. but you cannot disagree that they both abuse it
Rioter Comments
RexSaur (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H04FeXvA,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2017-02-18T17:16:47.599+0000) > > after I saw a couple of posts defending Jhin I realized how hypocritical the boards are when it comes to certain champions. Due to that realization I am done making any attempts to reason with the 54% of Jhin players. I wish you luck It really isnt surprising so many ppl defend him, they are all abusing him to gain elo.
they justify his "4 shot mechanic" as something that gates him when in reality 4 shots + Q + W is all he needs to spell weave. His combos are anything but difficult since Q essentially substitutes for a 5 auto (has the same range as his autos too). When people say he's immobile they neglect to realize actual immobile champions (ie; kog'maw) that have NO access to mobility whatsoever. He gets MS per crit and W, an ability that can root (and is broken as shit sometimes due to terrain elevation) and an ult that slows. It's appalling that peole have the audacity to defend him as "fair"
: You do realize his regular gun is a shotgun? And he has to go through a reload each time in his ultimate, hence the delay between each shot?
so why doesn't it behave like Graves' shotgun? If his main weapon is a shotgun give him substantially less range and damage unless he is <max range.
: *hypocrite
was going to give u the E but u couldn't "e"valuate efficiently
: Now that everyone's on a Jhin Witch hunt
RexSaur (NA)
: The boards defends jhin and complains about cait
after I saw a couple of posts defending Jhin I realized how hypocritical the boards are when it comes to certain champions. Due to that realization I am done making any attempts to reason with the 54% of Jhin players. I wish you luck
Fawksea (EUW)
: Is it really that hard to see why Jhin has a high play rate?
If he is a sniper, give him a 1 bullet reload mechanic
: Something I'm genuinely confused about
Thank you for this thread. I began posting about Jhin months ago when his play rate was increasing and his winrate was consistently about 50%. People thought I was losing my mind. I really hope this brings some visibility because I'm tired of playing against Jhin.
: Why do some abilities finish the cast after champion death and some not? Why did Riot decide so?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I'm not calling Kog OP and I don't think I anyone would say that Kog's winrate wouldn't drop if his playrate quadrupled. Maybe if you can remember his winrate and playrate during freeweek we could make a guess what that'd look like. And I'm only quoting op.gg here, https://na.op.gg/champion/kogmaw/statistics/adc but you're right, though actually it's risen since I last looked. But if we're calling the website inaccurate fair doos
was strong in 7.1 - 7.2 only because his mains began going off-tank instead of triforce. the reason why it dropped because lethality got buffed and its really preventing kog'maw from hitting his tank items. it should say something about the champion/meta when an adc has to build tank
: I'm not saying that he was scripting. I am saying that to the majority of players, movement like that looks unnatural, and would most likely be thought of as scripting.
ooooh okay sorry! thanks for clarifying. riot said the reason why they reverted kog'maw is because he stood still while W was active and i just wanted to show a video of people that mastered him and how they are able to kite with keybindings and attack move command
Rebonack (NA)
: Changing key-binds is way too complicated for most of League's player-base to handle. Better just revert Kog and then go back to ignoring him until his VGU into 2047.
2047 jeez i'll be 42 idk if i'll even play this game anymore. I COULD POSSIBLY DIE SOMETIME BETWEEN THEN AND NOW
: My apologies, I didn't mean to imply that Kog players are scripters. However, it looks like, for the most part, scripting. If you weren't the Kog'maw player, and you see what is played in the OP, then you would think that person is scripting. While that's unfortunate for the players with the skill to play something like that off, its pretty much unavoidable.
the script would have dodged the amumu Q, dont you think? additionally, he missed several of his R's where a script would have predicted/perfectly placed every skill shot
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzW1oET3n-8
in OP you can clearly see every mouse click. this video you linked is a person well known for scripting. not all kogmaw players scripts
Rioter Comments
: Math, with a Jhin main! ONE! {{champion:133}} - 55.2% - {{item:3142}}{{item:3814}}{{item:3147}} ...TWO! {{champion:91}} - 55.2% - {{item:3142}}{{item:3147}}{{item:3814}} THREE... {{champion:107}} - 54.2% - {{item:3142}}{{item:3814}}{{item:3071}} FOUR!!! {{champion:80}} - 53.5% - {{item:3142}}{{item:3147}}{{item:3814}} You wanna' know why everyone won't stop playing Jhin this week? https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mgWJ6ntpng8/WJJL3f9sudI/AAAAAAAAdJU/2qIGh9ovxco5mxRujzLZ7FgNC86ke3MEwCLcB/s1600/Jhin_Splash_2.jpg _ GG Rito. Nerf skin, too OPealling! _ For reference, if you really DO just play champions because of winrate, here's who else is doing great: {{champion:96}} - 56.4% - {{item:3124}}{{item:3085}}{{item:3022}} {{champion:21}} - 54.5% - {{item:3142}}{{item:3071}}{{item:3814}} {{champion:119}} - 52% - {{item:3142}}{{item:3814}}{{item:3147}} {{champion:202}} - 52% - {{item:3142}}{{item:3814}}{{item:3031}} (Or take Quinn bot. Or anywhere) Miss Fortune was at 54% with a 20% playrate last week, before people figured out she's not the only one. Not a big dip in winrate either. But she wasn't -everywhere- so no-one cared. Jhin is flourishing right now, because he is an adc-ASSASSIN, he is **designed to kill squishies**, in a squishy meta, with a squishy-killing item buff! He's _terrible at literally every other ADC responsibility_. He dies if he even sees a tank. Balance him with care.
Kog'Maw's mains push Kog'Maw's win-rate to the limit. I want to see you produce that kind of result before randomly posting an incorrect win-rate of a champion that barely has a 1% play rate.
Bârd (NA)
: Well, his autos USED to feel different, and that felt amazing. The only problem is that Kog with 5.0 attack speed forced every on hit item to be balanced around Kog, making anyone else who relied on them useless. For example, Bloodrazor. Off the top of my head, Yi, Twitch (jungle), Teemo (jungle), Tryndamere, Kindred, and Kayle (jungle) all heavily relied on this item, but because Kog could go jungle and abuse it so much, it wasn't allowed to be strong.
and now they're really bad with no compensation
: "Every marksmen auto should feel unique"
{{champion:96}} if you haven't played kog'maw, play him and tell me how successful you feel
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