: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w6gocRbm,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-01-21T23:25:51.908+0000) > > Kog'Maw is really shitty to play as. High elo has more strategical macro play and peeling (as well as scripters) which inflate his winrate. Low ELO copy higher elo "fun" picks like Malzahar and Ziggs which is just a nightmare for Kog'Maw. personal experience lmao wut? Ziggs and Malzahar aren't "fun" picks. They're legitimate, top tier picks right now that see play in professional games in their specific roles as botlaners. Also Kog'Maw should probably be played as an AP right now, considering his core is Archangel, Rylai's, and Liandry's, and 2 are really good right now with the third being absurdly cheap. That is if nerfs didn't come in a few patches ago and they completely flew past me.
nerfs did come (despite his 1% play rate) which reduced E damage by 5 per level (max was -20) and reduced his ratios on E by 20% which is huge riot has explicitly said that they don't want AP Kog'Maw to exist. rylias is not as good post nerfs imo, i'd rather get ludens echo and land all my skill shots
: Stats actually do mean something. Here's why.
Kog'Maw is really shitty to play as. High elo has more strategical macro play and peeling (as well as scripters) which inflate his winrate. Low ELO copy higher elo "fun" picks like Malzahar and Ziggs which is just a nightmare for Kog'Maw. personal experience
Rioter Comments
: but its cute having a running dead kog maw XD
Rioter Comments
LankPants (OCE)
: >umm for starteres varus is weak as fck i can give you several reasons? why was he the only adc to get nerfed at marksmen update? Varus has been the number one carry in pro play so far. He also currently has a positive winrate on every server according to op.gg. You want to explain to me how he's "weak".
pro play and solo q are two different ways that the game is played. I hate people like you that say "x champion is played in LCS so clearly must be strong"
: lol where do you see that? i have a feeling you're making this up because whatever information you've given me has turned out to be misleading or flat out untrue
the data graphs you showed are data from plat+ - which isn't 47k lmao
Verdade (EUNE)
: I see over 47k on kog'maw...
lol where do you see that? i have a feeling you're making this up because whatever information you've given me has turned out to be misleading or flat out untrue
Verdade (EUNE)
: 1. OP GG is most reliable site, as was comfirmed by rito. There was red post that said Op.gg is the closest site to their internal data. 2. Data was drawn from NA, all ranked matches and from whole last patchpatch, not current one. 3. Corki was hypercarry before his rework into machine gun. After his rework he became mid-game carry. 4. After his W revert people tried him as both hypercarry (AD/AS/CRIT) and midgame, and even pros agreed he's still better with on-hit. 5. Most used items on him are BORK, ruaan and rageblade. All three items are heavily focused on on-hit mechanics. 6. Just because he feels strong in late doesn't mean he's late-game champion. Most champions are strong in late, however only few of them are really ridiculous as hypercarries are. 7. Tristana and Varus suffer from entirely different problem - their kits dip into multiple ADC classes, so they are stuck somewhere in between and can't itemize properly.
1. when was it confirmed by Riot? link me the confirmation and then I'll believe you. Why doesn't Riot just implement their own data website if its "closest site to their internal data"? 2. From that website, you can see exactly how many # of games Kog'Maw has been played: 1270 from plat +. Do you know how little 1270 is? Just in platinum alone there are 19420 caitlyn games. the data on her are reliable because of how large the sample size is. 3 & 4. so you're saying that before rework he was a hyper carry, but somehow magically after his rework he lost his hypercarry abilities? pre 5.22 and post 6.18 kog'maw had 2 changes. his ult and mana cost on his W. NOTHING CHANGED. he is still a hyper carry. the only thing that changed, as i've said before, is that triforce doesn't have crit and doesn't help him scale. triforce is a midgame item which helped kog'maw get to midgame (gave him health, MS, and mana) 5. BoRK has been used on kog'maw pre 5.22 because of the attack speed that synergizes with his W. his W is the reason why he is late game since it does the most damage at late game when everyone is 18 and has max health/health items 6. i've already explained why he is late game. 7. kog'maw's kit certainly doesn't dip into other ADCs classes. vayne is a better tank killer, corki has better mixed dmg, twitch/ashe/cait have better dps, ashe/varus have better utility (kog E), and ezreal has better poke. nearly every ADCs have better mobility (excluding urgot since he's no longer botlane)
: A person's rank doesn't invalidate or validate their opinion
This is how I feel when I talk to people about Kog'Maw :c
Verdade (EUNE)
: http://i.imgur.com/lNwwHCl.png General knowledge man...
the "hyper carries" that you listen hardly rely on attack speed and more so on crit. caitlyn isn't weak early on and vayne/twitch spike mid game after they complete IE and 1 crit item so IDK what you're on about. also, websites like OP.gg and champion.gg are the WORST websites to gather data from because 1) limited resources 2) only in high elo which is plat+ 3) gather data only at the beginning of a patch which is generally when everythign still hasn't settled down. as for kog'maw, he is a late game hyper carry and has always been one. right now he's awful because he doesn't spike until his 3-4th item unlike caitlyn on her 2nd. you ever wonder why kog'maw, tristana, and kalista are in a horrible position right now? its because the game doesnt develop long enough for them to get the items they need. additionally, kog'maw doesn't have a set build as most ADCs do. want to know why? because of his changes and changes to items as opposed to s5, former items like triforce aren't good on him anymore. on-hit doesn't scale so he can't build rageblade and he has no synergy with crit besides his AS passive on his Q. he's just in a bad position right now so miss me with that bullshit graph data from unreliable websites and actually play the champion. champion.gg says he has a 55% win rate but are you really going to believe that? lmao ok
Verdade (EUNE)
: Many champions have % hp scaling and yet they aren't late-game. Kog's core is BOTRK/Hurricane/Rageblade which makes him mid-game carry by default Kog's win rate is sub-50% until he finishes third item, then spikes to around 58-60% and then goes down after 35th minute. Basic rule when it comes to ADCS: Caster ADCs that rely on raw AD/ARpen {{champion:21}} {{champion:119}} are early game ADCs that rely on on-hit items {{champion:81}} {{champion:42}} are mid game Auto-attacking ADCs that rely on AS/Crit and DPS {{champion:67}} {{champion:29}} are late game
Except that vayne and twitch are doing completely find early one. In fact, kog is probably the most DPS oriented champion in the entire roster since he relies on his W. You certainly don't know what you're talking about and I advise you to actually play the champion.
Verdade (EUNE)
: Kog isn't even late game champion
Yasuicide (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cwkla4Rh,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2017-01-18T21:15:01.456+0000) > > no point in playing late game champions {{champion:96}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:67}}
out of those GP seems to be the only one that is struggling. Vayne and Yasuo spike with their first item
Rioter Comments
: Watching Dyrus's stream, the amount of open mids is retarded
no point in playing late game champions {{champion:96}}
khorney (NA)
: and its a long cd
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Shundown (NA)
: A statement to Riot Games
RED, RED, RED! Where my Riot developers at?
: what? But kog'maw is op, look at his 55% winrate. Also I don't know what play rate is and my parents dropped me on my head as a child.
i know right people tell me tht kog is absolutely busted but i didn't know he was this problematic nerf kog'maw 2017 op op
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7dGzrbb,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-17T23:28:45.119+0000) > > i've been posting non-stop for months since patch 6.18. literally no one listens and only down votes due to lack of knowledge of the champion. i HAVE to save mana for W to farm/trade during laning phase. E costs too much and Q is simply a sheen proc ability. don't get me started about his ult What are his core items?
it's debated on which items provide more viability. people say triforce but it only provides 250 mana. i say "only" because 250 mana isn't that much. for example at level 18 2 E's = 250 mana
Lakrosin (NA)
: I thought you said you were done talking about Kog'maw within this week.
i've been posting non-stop for months since patch 6.18. literally no one listens and only down votes due to lack of knowledge of the champion. i HAVE to save mana for W to farm/trade during laning phase. E costs too much and Q is simply a sheen proc ability. don't get me started about his ult
Rioter Comments
Slazll (NA)
: well I mean both were like S games just cause I don't play it often doesn't mean it's not good he just needs the right set up and not to be against hec or rengar
play it in ranked consistently
Slazll (NA)
: I play fine on kog you just need to pick him into good lanes like if you have an engage or peel supp he does really well against draven use E to slow pr keep him from catching axes and W to poke/out range him before he can get off any autos
I'm sorry but is 2 games on Kog'Maw in normals really your justification of the champion?
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: Maybe since theres so many good champs that there all balanced and everyone else is under powered hmmm.
700 AD jhin with abilities that scale with his AD is not balanced or OK
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tm3LWPlF,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2017-01-16T23:11:26.637+0000) > > something really caught my eye - kog'maw didn't get instakilled in 1 second as he does now Kha didn't Q him, he held his Q hoping he'd isolate himself and only used it once it would execute him. So all that damage was just auto's / W until the last 20%. Which is why eve who had roughly 200-300 more HP was bursted significantly faster.
He didn't hold onto his Q because it was on cooldown until the very last moment. All that damage was his W, E, red buff, AA, and hydra. As for Eve, she also got hit by Ezreal ult
Shundown (NA)
: A statement to Riot Games
something really caught my eye - kog'maw didn't get instakilled in 1 second as he does now (also the khazix was super fed at that point)
Rioter Comments
Scruberz (NA)
: Well mr silver 2 I guess there is no room for you to improve. I'm sure you are only silver 2 b/c you play a shit champion, but if you played Y, the mysterious best champion that you are automatically the best you can possibly be with them if you play them you would be rank 1 challenger.
no point in playing a game for challenge then
Scruberz (NA)
: Why figure how to beat Y when I can just play Y?
games lose thrill when you finally get the most powerful weapon, the most powerful spell, the most powerful character. there is no challenge in picking Y since Y is the most viable and statistically best choice. then there is no way to improve since you already have the best. as soon as there is no more room for improvement you've lost the desire to progress and grow
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WHi0H1kB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T16:59:54.964+0000) > > he's urgot teir he needs huge buffs
someone literally keeps downvoting all my posts lol
Rioter Comments
: yeah, i've been trying to play kog this season, but I see no reason to play him.
: ???
how r u still in bronze while playing that cheesy champion? literally get to out trade any ADCs every 4 autos and a Q lmao
Rioter Comments
: Option it's a Jhin W I'm a bronze and I know his abilities get rekt kid
Lakrosin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-16T09:02:42.768+0000) > > did you even read the comment? its 52% at max rank but E is maxed last so it's 52% when you're level 18. additionally its 52% slow for 1 second + .25s persistent effect. the ooze lasts for 4 seconds. for how immobile kog'maw is, it really isn't enough. If your adc can't peel within an addition 1.25 seconds, then I can't say it's Kog'maws fault. If it was any longer, it would be kinda broken.
I've had an autofilled support Malzahard and a blind Morgana support game today. Both really couldn't use their abilties properly.
Kotex (NA)
: Right now any late game hyper carry that isn't vayne--(solely because vayne is allowed to hit early and mid powerspikes as a late carry)--is in a terrible place. Kog, Trist, Kallista. The game right now is designed to snowball faster than these champions are designed to impact it without being spoonfed. Kog's ability to break the AS cap was his one saving identity that was removed putting him back in his terrible timeout corner where hes clearly outshined by every other better pick in the bot lane right now. At this point i strongly believe riot just has no idea what to do with him so theyre hoping to ignore and avoid it for as long as they can because they just don't know what to do for him. Sort of like teemo, but their answer for teemo is "Just give him another skin"
> At this point i strongly believe riot just has no idea what to do with him so theyre hoping to ignore and avoid it for as long as they can I hope to bring Kog'Maw to the light because for months I've been trying to push for changes. No one listens because he's just really, really bad. At least Teemo is decent toplane. But I do agree they can make changes to him.
Lakrosin (NA)
: ***
did you even read the comment? its 52% at max rank but E is maxed last so it's 52% when you're level 18. additionally its 52% slow for 1 second + .25s persistent effect. the ooze lasts for 4 seconds. for how immobile kog'maw is, it really isn't enough.
: his only ability that scales with ad is his ult and it only scales with bonus ad which he doesn't build alot of
sort of like jhin, vayne, caitlyn (3 abilities), ezreal (3 abilities), kalista (dmg abilities), lucian (3 abilities), corki, MF (3 abilities), jinx (3 abilities), draven but god forbid kog'maw have decent ad scalings
Zelnick (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T08:27:32.074+0000) > > the slow is NEGLIGIBLE. It's maxed last and the slow wears off pretty quickly. Why would you build AP as a marksman? Have you played Kog'maw before? Because he has lots of range and scales from ap as well as ad. His slow is very effective, you just have to aim it to be as such.
his only ability that scales with ad is his ult and it only scales with bonus ad which he doesn't build alot of
Zelnick (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T08:23:05.521+0000) > > it doesn't prevent anyone from engaging. the slow is negligible and so is the damage How does a giant-ass slow not prevent people from engaging? I see it do nothing but do just that. And it isn't meant to deal damage unless you go ap.
the slow is NEGLIGIBLE. It's maxed last and the slow wears off pretty quickly. Why would you build AP as a marksman? Have you played Kog'maw before?
Zelnick (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-16T08:11:43.479+0000) > > kog'maw doesn't have cc Not hard cc, but he has that thick line slow.
it doesn't prevent anyone from engaging. the slow is negligible and so is the damage
Zelnick (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T07:28:59.381+0000) > > he has excessive range and cc? are you sure you're not talking about caitlyn? Caitlyn also has high range and cc, but she has a much stronger early game, and this is an early-game meta.
: option 8 there's only 6 bans and the game's basically broken right now
option 9 i can't believe they'd leave several champions unbalanced WHILE releasing new champions that seem to also be unbalanced. adcs aren't weak but some are too strong and i'm sick and tired of seeing jhin zyra botlane i get hit by 1 plant and snared by jhin e then he fucking hits me with guarunteed crit 4th shot ONTOP OF %health WHILE zyra plants are shitting on me with % health dmg as magic dmg yet its my fault when i play kog maw to try to have a decent non cancerous game
Zelnick (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Geshultz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T07:10:21.773+0000) > > AD Kog is just a worst version of vayne at the moment. No he's pretty decent because he has excessive range and cc in addition to percent damage, it makes it hard for tanks to defend against him like Corki.
he has excessive range and cc? are you sure you're not talking about caitlyn?
Zelnick (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eaMXzLAu,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-16T06:41:27.179+0000) > > @riot do u guys really think he's in an okay place? hard to tell with low play rate lmao He's okay mid lane, ap.
Riot doesn't want AP Kog to exist. I'm only talking about AD Kog'Maw. Tell me how good he is.
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General KogMaw

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