Runes Corner: Summoner Specialist and Hextech Freezeray

submitted in Dev Corner
Hey all! Stashu here, and welcome to another Runes Corner. I have a double feature of keystones for you this week, and from our most unique path: Inspiration. Be warned, this reveal is not for the faint of heart, these are some spicy keystones and I cannot be more excited to finally be able to talk about them. The past couple reveals have gone deep into background and theory to give you guys a bit of insight into our iterative design process and explain how and why we’ve landed on certain runes. Now that we’ve laid the groundwork there, I’m going to give these runes a little more room to speak for themselves; and fortunately this duo has loud, beautiful voices. [W.I.P. note, names are temp and mechanics are subject to change as we continue playtesting. Temp icons borrowed from champion kits and beaten with my fumbling photoshop skills.] So! Without further ado, I present Inspiration Keystone #1 _________ Summoner Specialist: http://i.imgur.com/T3Qf7s6.png _You start with 1 Summoner Shard and gain an additional Summoner Shard each time you cast a Summoner Spell. Swap a Summoner Spell to a different one by exchanging 3 Summoner Shards at the shop. Additionally, gain 15% Summoner Spell cooldown reduction. (You cannot have two of the same Summoner Spells)_ That’s right, you can now change summoner spells _**during**_ the game. Ever wanted to take ignite as a jungler without giving up flash? How about taking exhaust/ignite to win lane, knowing you’ll need teleport later? Well, this one’s for you. I doubt we’ve even got past the tip of the iceberg in our explorations of how to use this thing, so I can’t wait to see what ya’ll can do with it. Worth noting, there are still lots of questions to answer here, like what cooldown is the swapped-to spell on? (Currently it inherits the remaining cooldown of the swapped spell.) How exactly does this interact with smite? Is the shop the right place for this? Is this sufficient power to compete with other keystones, or does it need other bonuses attached to casting summoner spells? Etc. But we’re confident that we can answer these in the coming weeks and deliver something new, crazy, and, importantly, balanceable. Here’s a quick gif of how our prototyped version of this works (expect better UI on launch. Also pretend it has a WIP stamp on it): http://i.imgur.com/DbAI6zn.gifv Got it? Cool. Let’s jump right to the next one, Keystone #2, _________ Hextech Freezeray: http://i.imgur.com/UngcbtR.png _Your first attack on a champion slows them for 1.5 seconds (8-3 second per-unit cooldown)._ * _Ranged attacks slow by 25% - 40%_ * _Melee attacks slow by 35% - 50%_ _Additionally, your active item slows create an icy zone around their target for 5 seconds, slowing all units inside by 70%._ Alright, alright, so this one’s a little more tame than swapping summoner spells, that’s fair. But even so, this is the first time we’ve ever offered this sort of power in the pre-game, and that’s pretty big. Now, every champion has the choice to opt out of damage or durability to add this new tool to their arsenal; and with the new power level of other keystones, that’s a LOT of damage/durability lost in this opportunity cost. Can you make that tradeoff worth it by clever use of the Freezeray, adding new synergies to your favorite kits and combos? And then there’s the active item slow mod. The on-hit-slow, if tuned high enough, may be enough for a rune to stand on it’s own in terms of power, but it’s a very isolated effect with few relations/hooks into other game systems, leaving it a little… uninspired. So there’s thematically a need for something else here, but it also serves a valuable gameplay need, allowing us to distribute the power of this rune between its reliable slow and its delayed/unreliable active item modification. Also, active item slows are well distributed between classes, offering decent options to marksmen, tanks, mages, and supports. The exact effect (slow zone, for now) is still under heavy iteration and might not stick, but we’re very confident in some form of ‘modifies active item slows.’ Here’s Teemo using the passive as well as the active with both Bilgewater Cutlass and Hextech-GLP. Note that AoE slow actives create slightly smaller zones. http://i.imgur.com/Bh9WbR4.gifv And that concludes this reveal, thanks for reading! Please join us in the comments for Q&A, and while you’re there, we’d love to hear what you all would like out of a third Inspiration keystone -- now that you have a feel for what we’re working on in Inspiration, what creative and out-there tools have you always wanted but never had a place for? Keep in mind that inspiration does not offer direct damage or tankiness, or at least without extreme tradeoffs. We’re still trying out a whole bunch of ideas there, so now’s your chance to have your voice heard! I’m very excited to hear what you come up with, so, hope to see you in the comments! _________ You can check the previous Runes Corner posts here: [Runes Content Development Peek](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/MZd3jemX-runes-corner-runes-content-development-peek) [Inspiration Slot 1 Reveal](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/E0aY4E0O-runes-corner-inspiration-runes-slot-sneak-peek) [Guardian's Soul Reveal](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/HWPhZNsU-runes-corner-guardian-soul) [Stormlord's Mandate and Spellslinger's Surge Reveal](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/8uzGEMn4-runes-corner-stormlords-mandate-and-spellslingers-surge) [Hunt of the Blood Moon Reveal](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/hFIemE4p-runes-corner-hunt-of-the-blood-moon-sneak-peek) [Domination Slot 1 Reveal](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/9ls3OEo8-runes-corner-domination-major-slot-sneak-peek) [Meteor Reveal](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/nVHz5tjE-runes-corner-meteor-sneak-peek)
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new
This is so minor but with these changes, and the removal of Summoner's from the lore, is there any chance they might end up renamed in the preseason? I know they're a cool and essential part of League, but I think this is a decent chance to update an outdated piece of nomenclature from the game
new
Yes! both of these names are very very temp. There's a chance Freezeray sticks, but we'll see!
new
No, no! I mean change the name "summoner spells"! Like as in, the collection of spells comprised of Ignite, Teleport, Exhaust, and friends. _Summoner spells_ is just a bit outdated and feels like a relic.
new
Ah... while that's probably a good idea, I think that's our of scope for our team here
I think Hextech Freezeray ranged slow ratio is too high for a low cooldown of 8 seconds
new
> [{quoted}](name=MEWK Dunkprophet,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=000500010001,timestamp=2017-08-24T00:10:19.172+0000) > > I think Hextech Freezeray ranged slow ratio is too high for a low cooldown of 8 seconds Very possible, there's still a lot of tuning to do!
new
Does the slow also work on other items like BotRK, Randuins and Righteous Glory?
new
Yes! whatever effect we land on will be applied to all active items that slow.
new
So how will it work with Randuin and Glory exactly? See my other comment below: > For Randuin and Glory, it's more complicated since it's already a circular AoE, but I guess a field of ice will spawn at the feet of people slowed by the initial AoE.
new
Those items will apply the slow effect mod to all units affected. So, in the current model, all units you slow with randuins will have the slow puddle spawn under their feet. We may have to make the AoE slows use a less powerful effect because of the potential high end, but yeah, they'll be included!
new
I have to admit that I am extremely disappointed in Summoner Specialist. The 15% cdr on summoner spells is the part I'm talking about, as the current mastery we have that reduces summoner spell cooldowns has led to significant power creep across the board in my opinion. Between blast cones and shorter cooldowns on flash, this was the one mastery I was truly hoping would be removed with the runes rework to cut back on the growing mobility creep.
new
Understandable, I see where you're coming from. Also, that stat isn't especially strong or exciting. Currently, it's serving an important purpose of making this keystone have a reliable and powerful output. That output can really be anything that fits with the other effect, so I'd definitely like to find something better, but worst case, this will do.
new
First impressions: * Summoner Specialist is sick. It will be very fun exploring and trying new stuff in the beginning, but I fear it will be crazy overpowered once people (pros, lets be honest) will have mastered its use. You mention in the article that you're "confident it will be balanceable". What gives you such confidence? What are the levers you envision? * Hextech Freezeray is super original, but I'm not 100% sure it's powerful enough for a Keystone, but we'll see when the system is actually released, and the tuning levers are much more obvious. But why restrict it to "item actives *slows*"? Most notably, it means it doesn't work with Protobelt and the Tiamat line, or with Redemption for Supports. Especially Protobelt seems odd not working when Gunblade, Cutlass and GLP all work.
new
Specialist - We're leaning on the opportunity cost a lot here. From testing, Summoner Specialist users tend to have very tight windows of power, because of how high summoner CD's are. High-level opponents have had a lot of success taking advantage of the windows between cooldowns by forcing fights with their more reliable, lower CD damage/tankiness keystones. Additionally, you have to go back to base to swap spells, so whenever you're on the map, you're locked into the summoner spell pairing that you have and will express the appropriate strengths/weaknesses (for example, if a summoner specialist is rocking exhaust + ignite, then they are VERY vulnerable to ganks, and will lose 1-on-1's to your keystone if you can bait their summoners out). We're also thinking of including global chat call outs to let everyone know when a specialist has swapped summoners, so that enemies can prepare themselves and take the appropriate counter-measures. Lastly, we can always introduce new gates if we have to, like a cooldown on swapping summoners, or if we REALLY have to, we can remove problematic summoner spells from the pool (ie; if everyone takes smite/tp at level 1 with this and we get some weird jungle invade > tp to lane meta, we can fix that) Freezeray - adding a slow to items that don't have them is simply a LOT more pattern warping and much more dangerous. Also, we wanted to limit the number of items that would have this new effect, so that the optimal play wasn't FILL MY INVENTORY WITH ALL ACTIVES! As that can get stressful. Lastly, it just so happened that the suit of active items with slow effects made for a very compelling set, across classes and champions, and made for really meaningful tradeoffs.
Naalith (NA)
new
I see that there is an entirely new alchemy tab in the store in that Bard gif. Are there going to be other masteries besides summoner specialist that utilize this tab?
new
Unlikely! Trying to reduce complexity and keep the 'rules breaking' component of each rune that does it special for that rune, but that said, it's always a possibility and if it makes the most sense to do, then we'll do it.
Meddler (NA)
new
Tiny bit more context - we were trying an Alchemy tab for a previous keystone. That didn't work out, we ended up reusing the UI from it as a way to prototype Summoner Specialist though.
new
Can you please tell us more about that scrapped mastery? I'm just curious.
Meddler (NA)
new
It allowed you to buy from a set of unique elixirs that each gave you some stats and a unique effect (e.g. AP and a Luden's style mini proc). They weren't bought with gold, but either just a CD or other currency. You could only have one active at a time and could generally afford to swap which one every 5 mins or so. Had some interesting play, but was really complex and often the end result was too stat driven.
Jungle items require you to have Smite in order to buy. What happens when you buy them, and then swap Smite away with Summoner Specialist? Looks like it could be very cool, especially on carry junglers. I am concerned, though, that it might end up making the different Smites obsolete; say I get to 6 items. I can swap my jungle item for a more efficient item, and then trade Smite for a different spell. We'd lose objective power, but in certain circumstances that's not true (If you're Cho'gath or if you have a Kalista, for example), and you'd potentially get a lot of combat strength. Skarners with Ghost, for example. Also, Hextech Freezeray. How will it interact with Righteous Glory and Randuin's Omen? Will every champion slowed get a icy zone?
Meddler (NA)
new
Jungle items and swapping - still need to figure that out, along with some other stuff around smite. As usual this stuff's all work in progress, not a look at final things that will be released as is. Righteous Glory and Randuin's plus Freezeray would indeed create a slow zone per enemy champ hit.
new
Well, you did just say in an earlier comment that you can limit what spells you can rotate out. Why not just keep Smite out completely initially? Otherwise, we could end up with another Mid smite Ezereal meta. Or Twitch building devourer, or top lane tanks going Cinderhulk. Yeah, the more I think of this, the better it sounds to not be able to swap into or out of smite.
new
> [{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=000b00010001,timestamp=2017-08-23T23:24:13.591+0000) > > Well, you did just say in an earlier comment that you can limit what spells you can rotate out. > > Why not just keep Smite out completely initially? Otherwise, we could end up with another Mid smite Ezereal meta. Or Twitch building devourer, or top lane tanks going Cinderhulk. > > Yeah, the more I think of this, the better it sounds to not be able to swap into or out of smite. Yeah, there's a pretty good chance we end up doing that for the reasons you outline. We'd really like junglers to be able to take this, though, so finding a balance is going to be tough.
new
Hey Stash these are some super dope Runes, can I ask how you feel these fit into the Inspiration path and what that path is all about. And on a side note, hear me out, you guys should rap about Runes Corner Thoughts?
new
Here's some notes that we use to describe the purpose of the Path amongst ourselves: INSPIRATION Gameplay: Users seek indirect power through creative tools at the expense of direct damage Audience: Intended to be player type/preference bound rather than function/class bound. This player type is interested in indirect power because it lets them express mastery in novel/unique ways. Note: Nothing in here directly deals damage or grants you damage dealing power. There may be indirect contributions to DPS, like CDR, but nothing direct.
Vonler (EUNE)
new
I like the idea of affecting potions somehow through runes (currently we have biscuit mastery). I guess such a rune could be considered for the inspiration tree. Just an idea: Potion dealer - player can use health potions on an ally player once every 60 seconds. Each potion consumed increases the healing of the next health potion by 20% to a maximum of 100% increase (150 healing --> 300 healing over 15 sec). Player starts the game with one free health potion. Refillable potion disabled if this rune is picked. To be able to specialize in potions as any champion would be cool.
new
Thanks for contributing! We also like the idea of hooking into potions, and have tried several different alchemy-inspired keystones that sadly didn't pan out. We haven't tried anything like this, though, and the idea of using potions on an ally is pretty exciting -- some worries about it becoming a must-take for supports, and then also forcing them to sink a bunch of gold into it, but that might be avoidable with some clever mechanics. Really appreciate your time!
pkcrory (EUW)
new
Ok.. so in relation to Summoner Specialist, what would happen if you started the game with smite, bought a jungling item, i.e. get the cinderhulk enchantment, then swapped smite to a different summoner spell? Would the item still give its effects? or would that be disabled?
new
Currently, there are some... problematic optimizations here around starting with smite, even if you're not a jungler. We'll have to make some changes to address this, but ideally they leave it possible for you to start smite, buy a jungle item, then swap off smite later and keep your jungle item (though, lose your special smite, since you won't have smite anymore).
new
I guess Summoner Specialist will give a big boost to the popularity of the warding Jungle Item, since it's not directly tied to Smite? Or do you think Smite is too important for objective control so people won't swap it out?
new
That's an interesting decision point. At the least, there will be times when, as a jungler, Baron and Elder Dragon have both been taken, so smite is pretty useless for a while, and Exhuast/Ignite/TP might make more sense, at least for a window. Hopefully, there will be other, less obvious times when it would make sense to switch off smite (like, if their Zed gets extremely fed and becomes the major factor of the game, or if you are snowballing hard as a damage dealer and really need ghost to carry your advantage forward, etc.)
new
tbh im actually really scared about all the new keystones and the new zhonyas mini item(for assassins with their slow burst nowadays) but lets get back to runes: with this slow thing frozen mallet becomes pretty much useless right? and idk if it doesnt remove alot of counterplay when you chase ppl and im sure supps like thresh want to 100% take this you aa them and basiclly make your stuff unmissable but well lets see how this is gonna play out in preseason and PBE **when** it hits
new
Yeah, this rune is redundant with frozen mallet, so if you take this rune, you probably won't buy a frozen mallet. Core frozen mallet users will likely choose between taking an offensive keystone and buying frozen mallet OR taking this keystone and buying a different, offensive item. Agree with the skillshot hit-confirming concern, we're currently experimenting with changes to add more gameplay there. Current test: make the slow start realllly small, and then ramp up to a more powerful slow within its last 0.5s or so, giving the opponent more time to react before hitting a small window in which they are unlikely to dodge incoming skillshots. This might turn out to be the wrong approach, but we're confident that we can find a healthy balance here with this or some other mechanical tweaks.
Scopé (EUNE)
new
Wait, so having Red Smite or Blue Smite means that I can exchange the spell and still have the jungle item? Or you're going to remove smite upgrades? Because you can't get a jungle item without smite (duh). What if you get one though, and sell it later in the game while not having smite anymore? You have to wait until you can get your smite again?
new
These are details we have to hammer out, but current thinking is that if you get blue smite, you can still trade out blue smite for, say, exhaust and keep your jungle item (you'll lose access to blue smite, but you'll keep your cinderhulk stats or runic echo proc). As for selling and rebuying the jungle item and that relation to smite... unsure! We'll do our best to give the jungler as much choice and power as possible, without causing weird or arcane optimizations or other game health problems.
Ars3lyn (NA)
new
would {{champion:516}} be able to abuse the summoner specialist with his passive? cause it not a consumable item. which in alot of can be abusing it if you think about it.
new
Incidentally, they are currently implemented as consumable items :P ('Potion of Flash on 'D'' is a temp name for one of them). Unsure if this is how they'll ship, but that's a good question. Probably best to keep these only purchasable at base, so we'll probably have to make that happen in whatever way makes the most sense.
new
Hey, did you discuss adding a rune that allows you to store control wards in your boots?Maybe as a alternative to zombie wards or the activateable boots (sorry i forgot how you called it).I think it wouldnt be too weak or too strong compared to other runes of that category and would be a nice possibility to allow players to store control wards in later stages of the game, instead of not being able to get a component.Other possibilities i would like to see are boots you can activate just like yumuus that grant you a greater amount of movement speed for a little duration, maybe double movement speed for 1 s with a 45 s cooldown.A alternative for the flash rune could for example be a ghost rune that allows you to have kayns e-effect without the heal component on a separate 4-minute cooldown if ghost is currently on cooldown. I would really apprechiate to hear your thoughts on my ideas.Sry for my bad english by the way
new
The problem you're trying to solve here is a real one. Unfortunately, I don't think a rune is the best place to solve it. Ward slot restriction is a systemic pain that should be solved globally for all champions, rather than on an opt-in basis through a rune.
new
{{champion:245}} A 50% slowing attack every 3 seconds you say? >:) {{champion:245}}
new
Oh know... what have I done. > [{quoted}](name=Riot jinxylord,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=0022,timestamp=2017-08-23T23:29:28.517+0000) > > {{champion:245}} A 50% slowing attack every 3 seconds you say? >:) {{champion:245}} Oh no... what have I done. *edited know >> no
new
stashu i stg if you bring back tank ekko we will find you
new
> [{quoted}](name=LyingOnLine,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=002200020000,timestamp=2017-08-24T00:08:30.350+0000) > > stashu i stg if you bring back tank ekko we will find you It was these hands that killed him. If I bring him back, I'll put my own name on the bounty board.
I like the idea of the Hextech Freezeray, but there's no way I can see Summoner Specialist being in the game in a balanced state. Might be an overreaction, but can you imagine the nightmare it could be if people could change summoners on the fly? Champions adept at running several different summoners (Top laners who can run flash, ghost, teleport, and ignite for example) would become stronger.
new
Yeah, it's definitely a scary thought. Currently, this hasn't been a problem because they have to base first, so it's never going to happen 'randomly' in a fight. In testing, we've experimented with global chat callouts (5:05 -Riot Stashu has swapped Ignite to Flash!) to reduce this same burden, which is very possibly something we ship with.
Lίssandra (EUNE)
new
I'm not really sure about how I feel , but 3 sec CD for a 50% slow is insane , should be 6 seconds at least. I would love to see some new runes for burst mages!
new
Yeah, that cooldown might not be tuned quite right. What sort of things would you like for burst mages? More burst, or things that help you get to burst, or other rewards for bursting, orrrr :D?
just make it once per game and we're fine
new
This takes a lot of the fun and excitement out of it, but limiting the number of uses per game could be a nuclear option if this thing ever gets too out of hand.
new
So does the "Active Item Slow" work with damage items that have {{item:3116}} on it? Say for example {{item:3116}} {{item:3152}} would that create the field since you used an active item that made the target slowed? Or is the keystone basically programmed for those actual items that have a slow in them? Just thinking about all the items that have a active slow on it, would be {{item:3153}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3146}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3800}} I might be missing a few but I think I got them all. If these are the only items that work with it then it really isn't as well distributed as you said it was. But then again this was an after effect for the keystone, and the main reason for the keystone was the on-hit auto attack slow I guess.
new
> [{quoted}](name=Dark Nephthys,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=003a,timestamp=2017-08-24T00:06:14.135+0000) > > So does the "Active Item Slow" work with damage items that have {{item:3116}} on it? Say for example {{item:3116}} {{item:3152}} would that create the field since you used an active item that made the target slowed? Or is the keystone basically programmed for those actual items that have a slow in them? > > Just thinking about all the items that have a active slow on it, would be {{item:3153}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3146}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3800}} I might be missing a few but I think I got them all. If these are the only items that work with it then it really isn't as well distributed as you said it was. But then again this was an after effect for the keystone, and the main reason for the keystone was the on-hit auto attack slow I guess. You got most of them, the only items you're missing are Cutlass (though, you have the upgrades there) and Face of the Mountain (yeah, that shield slows when it explodes). Currently, it's hooked up only to work with those items that specifically have a slow in them. I can see an argue for the rylai's protobelt interaction, will discuss!
new
Ugh. Freezeray just screams "more cancer for you to deal with, toplane melees!". Doesn't help that it sounds like Akali's just begging for it.
new
> [{quoted}](name=LyingOnLine,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=0038,timestamp=2017-08-24T00:01:36.898+0000) > > Ugh. Freezeray just screams "more cancer for you to deal with, toplane melees!". Doesn't help that it sounds like Akali's just begging for it. Yeah this is definitely a concern. We have some ideas to mitigate that if it gets too out of hand, like making the slow ramp or decay based on which gives better play for the opponent, or just starting the value very low but scaling it up later in the game when laning phase is over, or just giving it a much higher cooldown early, etc.
new
Am I the only person that doesn't like this change at all?
new
> [{quoted}](name=DarkHalo16,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4KAg8Y1F,comment-id=003d,timestamp=2017-08-24T00:18:26.431+0000) > > Am I the only person that doesn't like this change at all? Definitely not! Every change we've ever made to the game has met with at least some negative reception, even internally. But please believe me when I say we really, really don't want to intentionally make things that you dislike, we sincerely want you to enjoy the game that we put tons of hard work into. However, there will always be things about League that can be improved, and the answer should not be "don't change that, some people will dislike it!" to everything because then nothing would ever get done. This is not to marginalize you and others who dislike these changes -- I am really, really sorry that you don't like these changes. We strongly believe that Runes Reforged is moving League towards a better future in the long term, and are eagerly awaiting preseason to see how we did. Truthfully, we've been wrong about such things before (Dynamic Queue), and we will do our best to recognize those situations and revert if its clear we went astray.
new
Hextech Freezeray is gonna feel really bad to play against as a juggernaut
new
As a top laner, I sympathize -- I know what its like to be a melee getting trained on by Frozen Mallet Kennen, and it sucks. This rune is an attempt at the healthiest possible version of that. Importantly, the Kennen who takes this will NOT have Fervor Of Battle as they would on live, or any other damaging keystone, so while they get to stick on you a little longer, they'll be doing significantly less damage. Also, the Kennen who takes this will likely not buy Frozen Mallet (since they don't stack favorably), and thus will not be able to permaslow you even later on (this effect has a cooldown, giving you windows where you can couter-attack with your damaging or tank keystone that should give you an advantage in the trade). It's more than likely that the current values are too generous to ranged champions or that the cooldown needs to be longer, but that's the current thinking on why this is fair and -- ideally -- less frustrating than you may think.
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