Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - Patch 7.12

submitted in Dev Corner
https://news-a.akamaihd.net/public/na_images/PCHCHT/Minions.jpg Header by inkiness Hey, everyone! I'm Riot King Cobra and it's time for another round of Patch Chat! These threads serve as opportunity for us to talk about the patches that come out every two weeks. You can find the most recent patch by following this link: [Patch 7.12 Notes](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-712-notes). I'm on Riot's Playtest Team, a group of high elo players who play with the new champions, reworks, balance tweaks, items, and map updates before they are released. It's our job to the test the changes that our designers come up with and ensure that we're introducing positive changes to League in terms of both balance and fun. Ask us questions - we'll try to answer as many as we can! Patch 7.12 features buffs to Camille, Corki, Jax, Jhin, Kindred, and Rek'Sai. Additionally, we made a number of adjustments to champions that seemed to be overperforming a bit like Zac, Rumble, Ivern, and Malzahar. We also preemptively toned down Karma's shield values due to her crazy synergy with the updated support items that debut with this patch. All of us on the Playtest Team are avid gamers so feel free to talk to us as fellow LoL players! Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt Don “Aesah” Ding Dan “penguin” Hardison Robert “ROBERTxLEE” Lee Rob "King Cobra" Rosa Nicholas “Nickwu” Smith Blake “S0be” Soberanis Trevor “ThEntropist” Thernes Arnor "Hjarta" Halldorsson Brian "Madness Heroo" Pressoir
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Hey there! Quick question on new {{item:3190}}, what are your thoughts on the potential {{item:3193}} + {{item:3190}} team wide shields, particularly with health stacking tanks?
Hi! Cezium, our premier tank player on the team thinks it's probably optimal to build on most tanks right now. He's been building Locket after Stoneplate in almost all of our playtests so it's likely really strong. :P
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I'm still not sure what purpose Camille serves in top lane that isn't a strictly inferior Irelia. Her dueling window (if initiated by her leap) out lasts her own CC to proc her Q's 2nd tier of damage, allowing the enemy plenty of time to retaliate. In theory her W helps to kite back or zone control, but there's enough short range dashes/abilities that she can still get picked up and damage applied to. If we flip it around and she saves her leap until half way into combat, she's suspectible to getting CC'd and out damaged before her own CC is relevant. Pretty much anything that has the idea of damage in it that isn't a top lane tank steps on her quite firmly, which stops her from being anything but an R-suicide button in the mid game.
new
While opening with E, it's true your CC duration doesn't last long enough for full combo but you also have your passive and healing on W to mitigate return fire. You have slow on W and movespeed on Q to escape after a quick trade. Both of these champions have a bunch of differing strengths and weaknesses. Camille can freely cross walls, initiate tower dives and drop aggro with ult, and of course provide very unique/powerful utility through her ultimate
K1B0 (NA)
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What do you guys think about the new {{item:3050}} ? Is it fun to use, and what supports do you think work best with it?
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Being able to activate it on demand feels way better. It works best on melee supports who can take advantage of the aura
QuickSaveTV (EUNE)
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I was really curious to ask, whether or not {{champion:222}} will get some love and specifically when? I don't think it is a secret to anyone that she struggles significantly in the early game stages and I do not think she gets enough strengths for her limitations in later stages of the game. The balance team experimented with the W being able to crit, which resulted in 1800 damage 1shots, so you turned back. Alright, but then the problem remains. So, my question is this: **Will Jinx get some love, and if so, when? Because right now, despite me loving the champion, I have a distinct perception that I'm handicapping myself by playing her instead of picking Twitch, Ashe, Caitlyn or Kog'Maw, all of which have distinct strengths and weaknesses.**
I don't think we're looking at Jinx right now. Her winrate is right near 50% and she's a niche pick in Pro play as well, so I think she's in a reasonable spot. We'll likely look to tone down some of the stronger options rather than buff Jinx specifically.
Bycharo (EUW)
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{{champion:238}} is weak right now and he gets outscaled by almost everyone on midlane. everyone knows that zed should play so passive on early game and do some w e q combos . i would like the combo to be more rewarded because using your w for trades is so risky bc u sacrifice your only source escape for trades and hitting both q'es is so hard and its very ez to dodge and even if you hit them it will not do so much damage if there are minions nearby. so the reward for hitting skillshots is not worth because u just you will loose the trade sometimes and make yourself very vulnerable for ganks. the solution is very simple " if you hit both q es on enemy champion it will refund %of its cooldown " i hope u guys reply and sorry for my poor english
As a fellow Zed main I feel your pain. IMO a lot of Zed's weakness right now is related to Duskblade and Edge of Night being undertuned currently, combined with the nerfs to Black Cleaver. I think we'll probably look to address these systematic issues and see how he shakes out once his itemization is in a better spot before looking at buffing Zed specifically.
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With Locket changes do you see a Chogath + {{item:3193}} being a problem? I easily get over 15,000 health when i play chogath most of my games, so if i use locket while i have {{item:3193}} active around 3 enemy champions i could give my team a 4000 shield, thats more than a lot of champions health bars doesnt that seem a little strong?
It definitely can be quite powerful. That being said you need to both get within range of 3 enemy champions to get the full bonus health while not having taken significant damage, and the rest of your team has to be in position to get significant value from the shield over it's relatively short duration. I feel like it's windowed enough to allow for such a high moment if you manage to fulfill the conditions required. You also have to reach this point in the game not behind while playing Cho'Gath, which depending on your matchup can be no small feat.
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How do you guys feel about the Rek'Sai and Kindred buffs after the reworks, do you think they were necessary or do you feel players needed to relearn then
I think the Kindred buffs were definitely necessary. Rek'Sai certainly needed the QOL buffs for the ultimate, but I think there was a significant learning curve to her new playstyle as well and after these buffs she is likely quite strong in the hands of a skilled player.
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With the locket and redemption changes, it seems because of the split scaling (hp and heal%) these are meant to be exclusive. This seems like a nerf to tank supports since redemption is less viable without continued investment, and locket while at cast is greater because of both the full decay, and the required health scaling, it will probably block less damage for the entire team. Sure the shield will be decent with stoneplate, but that's a lot of gold to wait on for a tank support. Are you counting on zeke's to pick up the slack? Honestly looks like a decent nerf to tank supports overall. Is there any internal data to that should negate my worries?
While it's certainly not the intention it's very possible that overall these changes are a nerf to tank Supports. One of the primary goals however is to separate Tank vs Ranged support itemization, so that should we determine for example that Tanks indeed are underpowered, we have the option to buff their items specifically instead of inadvertently buffing all supports because they are building the same items. Hopefully this will give us the levers to properly balance supports going forward, even if that isn't the case right out of the gate.
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It is the opinion of many avid Kindred fans, Meddler, Wav3break, and I that Kindred was under-tuned in 7.11. To me, under-tuned is honestly a gross understatement but I digress. The 7.12 buffs are undoubtedly a step in the right direction. But does the playtest team think Kindred needs more in the future?
I think these buffs are likely enough to get her to a decent state. She is one of the absolute most powerful Jungler's in the game late game now, and having a smoother early game should allow her to reach that part of the game in a more reasonable position far more often.
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What do you guys think about ChoGath? What could you need? Or what his biggest problems are?
We're looking at him currently. I'd say right now the binary nature of his kit (hit Q or don't) makes him feel unreliable and causes him to have a lot of untenable matchups Top. We're hoping to make his output more consistent and both in teamfights and lane going forward.
I am really excited about the missions but currently there are no missions xD
Yeah, could someone elaborate on the mission concept? I would like some unicorn tears please. I know there are missions such as; Kha'zix vs Rengar (The Hunt) Ashe vs Sejuani (Asheguard vs Frostguard) I'd love to see more rivalries/special events/interesting interactions between champion adversaries!
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I think these will be more like the TF vs Graves icon Bilgewater event
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How does the playtest team feel about Quinn?
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Quinn is fun to play as but not very fun to play against seems to be the general sentiment
Splu (EUW)
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Hey, just wannted to ask what your plans with Viktor are. I feel like with the rylais/ghost changes and the high cost of his first item (hxc mk1: 1250g) he is definetly one of the weaker midlaners right now.
penguin (NA)
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Personally, I feel like Viktor is quite strong right now, but he's not great in solo queue because his power curve is quite long. I'd say base earlier than previously, buy a darkseal/refillable (since doran's ring stacking isn't efficient anymore), and then farm until your first upgrade. I typically go Upgrade -> Lich Bane rush if i'm doing really well, or Upgrade -> hourglass against assassins. He's probably one of the strongest late game mages in the game, so don't pick him into compositions where the enemy is early game/roam centric.
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What are your thoughts on {{item:3812}}? The general consensus is that the item is busted and is turning champs that should be squishy into almost pseudo tanks/bruisers due to the 30% damage reduction. Is it something you guys have talked about at all for nerfs? I heard it was on you guys radar before but its stopped being talked about.
I've had a conversation or two with live balance about the state of Deaths' Dance. I can't speak for them, but my own personal opinion is that it is very strong - maybe a bit too strong.
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Will {{champion:30}} EVER get an update.... granted I don't want to see him back on the rift but he feels older than poppy's old lollipoppy skin *shivers*
I don't think there's anything planned right now, but I LOVE Karthus. I think he's secretly really strong right now. I've been practicing him a ton for Riot Rumble - our in house tournament. :P
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Is it ever unfair to play against the playtest team during Riot Rumble, considering you guys are all like diamond+
penguin (NA)
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There's a master division where the lowest elo rioters are like D5/Plat 1
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Do you guys ever go easy on the lower elo Rioters in that bracket
penguin (NA)
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no, it's a competition where you play to win!
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Really not feeling the new nerfs to Malzahar. he was just starting to feel like the old malzahar before the massive change. His damage is all about his E and R especially, I love using his Q as a refresher on his E, that was a great idea! But...nerfing his damage when his voidlings get wrecked by AoE in every fight anyways doesn't make sense to me.
penguin (NA)
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He was doing too much damage either way, and is still one of the better performing midlaners.
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