Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.1

submitted in Dev Corner
Hey everyone and welcome to Patch 8.1, the first patch of the new season! I’m Riot Novalas & I’m a QA Analyst on Riot’s Playtest Team, a group of high elo players who work on Core Gameplay playing new champions, reworks, balance tweaks, items, and map updates before they’re released. It’s our job to test the changes that our designers come up with and ensure that we’re introducing positive changes to League in terms of both balance and fun. Patch Chat serves as an opportunity for us to talk about the patches that come out every two weeks. You can find information on the most recent patch by following this link: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-81-notes We’ve got some love towards Brand, Graves, and Skarner & a whole load of bugfixes for Syndra (and a bit for Evelynn). Zoe and Heimer have eaten some nerfs too! We’ve also got some Predator buffs & Resolve Set Bonus shifts. Ask us anything about 8.1! Our favorite rune builds, perhaps? Our likes or dislikes? Maybe how often we execute to jungle camps? Or, well, anything! We’re also down to just chat though! Disclaimer: We have no insight on upcoming/future skins. Don “Riot Aesah” Ding Adam “Riot Afic” Cohen Chris “Auberaun” Roberts Christy “Riot Ender L” Frierson Nick “Riot Endstep” Frijia Sigmundur “GangIeri” Helgason Arnor “Riot Hjarta” Halldorsson Rob “Riot King Cobra” Rosa Miktat “Riot Koyuncu” Koyuncu Brian “Riot Madness Heroo” Pressoir Nabi “Riot Novalas” Barak Dan “Riot penguin” Hardison Robert “ROBERTxLEE” Lee Trevor “Riot ThEntropist” Thernes
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> Disclaimer: We have no insight on upcoming/future skins. Still keeping project bard under wraps I see >ensure that we’re introducing positive changes to League in terms of both balance and fun. I know many people have different opinions on what "fun" means, what would be your opinion on what fun is in league. Personally I think playing off meta stuff is one of my favorite parts of league(Excluding getting flamed by team mates), I even mained top bard last season (Its pretty tough to go bard top this season, for now). Edit: The bard top even generated some memes here on the board :P https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/memes/AwKlNLhm-when-a-riot-member-doubts-your-off-meta-pick
penguin (NA)
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What fun is for me in LoL: * outplaying hard to outplay scenarios like a 3v1 tower dive * planning something a minute or two ahead of time and having it come to beautiful fruition exactly as it was planned * Farming big juicy waves with AoE mages...too satisfying
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> outplaying hard to outplay scenarios like a 3v1 tower dive Sounds like a shaco player
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no he's a bird.
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Try that last one with GP :^)
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Big fan of clearing waves on GP personally. {{champion:41}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:41}}
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The most fun I have in League of Legends is sitting in a bush for 1-5 minutes waiting for an AD to walk past me by his lonesome. :D Or stealing objectives. I like that too.
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> [{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=wRUXAmkK,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-01-10T21:05:02.566+0000) > > The most fun I have in League of Legends is sitting in a bush for 1-5 minutes waiting for an AD to walk past me by his lonesome. You... are.. ...Evil. I like you already.
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assassin player btw
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Hey guys, so first patch of the year, any expectations for how this may shape the first games of the LCS. How do the support mains on the team feel about Sightstone and support changes and the mid mains about Phroxzon's AP item changes coming in the next few patches. And for anyone playtesting Rengar, does he feel like he did pre Assassin update
penguin (NA)
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> Mid mains about Phroxzon's AP item changes coming in the next few patches. Phroxzon's been held up a little bit by investigating Warlord's/Targon tuning but there are some changes he's putting in that I'm hyped for directionally. Also, there's something from the shadows I'm excited to test ;)
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I'm pretty excited for the upcoming Sightstone changes. Being able to avoid the 800 gold "Support tax" is appealing to me since I can now spend my gold on core items to speed up my power spikes. Overall, I think combining Sightstone into the support items is a good direction to take. That being said, there's a plethora of concerns we have since this can be a game-warping change. We'd rather not see the meta devolve into everyone getting sightstone, so we've looking into the poachability of the item in other roles outside of support. If anyone hasn't seen it yet, check out ItsLowbo's post on the sightstone changes here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/xeAEIL6M-changes-to-sightstonesupport-items-coming-to-pbe
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When are you going to fix the spinning axe bug for {{champion:119}} after using e? Or when his axe randomly just disappears when you catch it? Seems like never.
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I'll go ahead and fwd this to the correct team~
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What are your thoughts on Urgot right now? Do you think the new rune system has made him weaker or stronger? Will he get some love in the future due to the removal of fervor from the game? What are your favorite runes to use on Urgot currently?
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I think Urgot is solid right now, though he's definitely worse on Runes than he was before - which is mostly due to Fervor being so strong on him and not having a replacement he has as much synergy with. That said, I think at the moment he's strong enough as a champion that he doesn't need a keystone as powerful as Fervor was. If Urgot is struggling in the future we'll definitely look back into him, though I don't think he needs any compensation for Fervor. As far as favorite runes, I actually really like Press the Attack on him. Legend: Bloodline is also sweet since you can get sustain without itemizing into it which feels great.
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What do you guys think about Ahri and Kayn these days?
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Think Kayn is performing pretty well atm. I've been finding a lot of success personally in-games. For a high pick rate, he has a pretty solid win rate across low & high elos.
Pr0Sing (EUW)
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you answered only half the question , how about ahri ?
penguin (NA)
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Personally: * Ahri feels depressingly....average. Generally feel like I'd be better off picking something else. * I know her W is a low point for Ahri players right now, so I brought that up with Phroxon when I was talking to some balance team dudes. He said he agrees it's underwhelming & on their back log, but unfortunately they have to prioritize bigger problems currently
Ahri seems to be in a fine spot for Solo Q. She has an above average winrate with several different keystones. Doubt she will see any competitive play though as historically her winrate has needed to be much higher to see play.
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>historically her winrate has needed to be much higher to see play. Any idea why that is?
penguin (NA)
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Personal read is that champions like Ahri/Lux that are pick mages lack the magic damage DPS that pro teams generally desire from mid lane. Pro play heavily prioritizes consistent output with high farm, and champions like Ahri put out less when they're 0-0-0 and have 200 CS than Ryze/Azir and have less effective global roams/early pressure than Taliyah.
Raptor (EUNE)
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Hey guys , not sure if this is appropriate but have you by chance got to test the upcoming new champ ? If yes then how does he/she feel like ?
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> have you by chance got to test the upcoming new champ ? We have~ > If yes then how does he/she feel like ? > ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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you miss a part of your arm
Raptor (EUNE)
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Next champ missing his right arm confirmed !!!
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Awh shit they're on to us!
Kai Guy (NA)
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I'm curious which of you guys tends to go "off meta" the most? Personally I'm a huge fan of breaking out of the norm. (Rip {{champion:18}} Ap.)
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We've got a few people who really enjoy their pocket picks (regardless of meta). Personally, I'm a huge fan of playing assassin champions and Nidalee even in tank jungle metas. I know Penguin loves him some Anivia. King Cobra loves Asol & Cassio. Ender L is a dirty Rek'Sai/Kennen two trick. Madness Heroo's favorite champ is Zed and he'll lock it in no matter what :P. Unsure if any of us like going really weird stuff (e.g. AD TF).
Penns (EUW)
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guess that explains why zed didnt get reworked but fizz did :]
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Zed was a part of the assassin rework in some capacity. :P On a serious note and needless to be said, the champion update team doesn't take into account the playtest champion pools to decide what champions should be reworked. The aforementioned list strictly discusses what we enjoy playing while playing the game on our solo queue grind. :P
Viator (NA)
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Hey, Novalas! I'm wondering why was Azir nerfed in 7.24B? The nerf hit his mid game pretty hard in my opinion. The old Azir was hit with a similar nerf and that dropped his win rate by almost 10%, which is why he needed a rework. However, he seems to be even weaker than pre-rework Azir after this nerf. How do you feel about Azir's current state? Thank you!
The reworked Azir is hitting the goals of being more accessible to a wider variety of players, but is currently performing too well compared to the rest of the midlane cast. The intention of the nerf was definitely to hit his mid game - it's possible we went too far but I'm confident we didn't as he's still seeing a lot of play and his ban rate is only rising. I personally think he's probably still too strong but it may just be the nature of the meta right now.
Chiken138 (EUW)
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Why are Volibear Buffs taking so long. A champion with that much counterplay, should be the easiest champion to Buff without any trouble
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We're investigating Volibear buffs. No ETA atm.
Been trying to find the right thing. Ideally we want something more skill expressive for Volibear to help bridge the gap between his high and low MMR performance. We've got something in testing right now that I think is promising, may be able to share it soon!
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Is any of you a top laner? And is he not a tank/Akali/Riven/Jayce/Pantheon main?
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I am a toplaner. I play pretty much everything, though Shen/Rumble/Camille are my most played as far as toplane goes.
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resident tank btw.
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How are you feeling about the current laning duration for the top lane? Is the bot lane getting 1st tower in 8 - 10 mins and asking you to switch lanes in every game too, when you haven't even completed even a single item? And what is your opinion on overall game duration.
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Personally I'd prefer it overall if the late laneswap was a bit less frequent/less optimal. There are times when it benefits me a lot (generally if I'm playing a tank or low-econ champion like Rumble), but there are also times where I'm playing someone like Tryndamere or Fiora who would prefer a longer laning phase. Even regardless of cost/benefit, I'd prefer a longer laning phase just because that's much of what I enjoy about toplane. The weird thing about this is, it's been a very strong and highly present strat in competitive play to do late laneswaps for quite some time but it's only become commonplace in soloqueue over the last couple months. Overall game duration I think is maybe a little bit shorter than I'd prefer. Early turret snowballs feel very powerful and there are a lot of champions present in the current meta like Ornn and Malzahar that are extremely good at closing games out if they get a lead.
spirkal (EUW)
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> [{quoted}](name=Riot Endstep,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=wRUXAmkK,comment-id=0016000000010000,timestamp=2018-01-10T23:31:58.393+0000) > > Personally I'd prefer it overall if the late laneswap was a bit less frequent/less optimal. There are times when it benefits me a lot (generally if I'm playing a tank or low-econ champion like Rumble), but there are also times where I'm playing someone like Tryndamere or Fiora who would prefer a longer laning phase. Even regardless of cost/benefit, I'd prefer a longer laning phase just because that's much of what I enjoy about toplane. The weird thing about this is, it's been a very strong and highly present strat in competitive play to do late laneswaps for quite some time but it's only become commonplace in soloqueue over the last couple months. > > Overall game duration I think is maybe a little bit shorter than I'd prefer. Early turret snowballs feel very powerful and there are a lot of champions present in the current meta like Ornn and Malzahar that are extremely good at closing games out if they get a lead. You play Tryndamere? may i ask what runes/build you take on him and what your current opinion about his state in the game is? thanks!
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I do play Tryndamere! I've messed around with Phase Rush a couple times recently but I've been happiest with Press the Attack, splashing either Inspiration for Magical Footwear or Domination for Sudden Impact. I haven't been super pleased with my build options recently - before Runes I was going Tiamat -> Zeal item -> Essence Reaver which I really liked, but I haven't felt great about that build in Runes. I've been experimenting with early AD items (to go with the AS bonus from Precision), but haven't found a build path I think is solid. Part of the reason why I've been trying Phase Rush is to get an AD set bonus to make the heavy AS builds better, and Phase Rush itself is also quite good if you can trigger it. As far as Tryndamere's state in the game, I think he's okay but not great. He felt a lot worse to me when Runes first shipped but he's gotten some indirect buffs that have put him into a decent spot, though I think he probably could be better. There's been some discussions about giving Tryndamere a small-scale set of changes to help out his gameplay a bit and it's something there's definitely interest in, but not something anyone's committed to.
Eedat (NA)
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Have you tried Electrocute? PtA seems really underwhelming while Electrocute really pumps up your threat in lane. It's worse it teamfights though obviously
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I've tried it, I'm not a big fan though. I think it's generally a lot worse than PtA because of the long cooldown and I like the minor runes in Precision more than the minor runes in Domination.
Vayatir (NA)
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Speaking of Rumble, how do you feel about him going into Season 8? He's always been a good champion just because of his kit, but it feels as if he's taken some indirect nerfs throughout preseason and I find him a bit underwhelming right now.
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I don't think he's bad, but I also don't think he's particularly great right now either. He feels mediocre when I play him most of the time, though there are some cases where I've felt really good about Runes Reforged for him - mostly coming from Ultimate Hat allowing him to cast The Equalizer much more frequently. As far as indirect nerfs, the biggest thing to me was the removal of Deathfire Touch which was a really high-synergy keystone for him that added a lot of (invisible) damage. Arcane Comet and Aery are both strong on him but his keystone isn't usually adding as much damage as it was before Runes. That's not necessarily a bad thing (he does have access to other powerful runes like Ultimate Hat that let him do some other things besides more straight-up damage), but it does seem like it's made him a bit worse.
This thread is a joke. Why even bother to have these when the Rioters don't respond to the serious inquiries? The only comments that are responded to are frivolous one-off who gives a shit questions like "What is fun for Rioters in LoL?" like it's a fucking game made for entertainment purposes... I am disappoint.
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We are currently answering questions between playtests, so we don't have a lot of time for more detailed responses. Any more involved question is going to have to wait until we have more time to write something up.
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Hey guys! :) How much time has passed since the last time you played Diana? Asked just out of curiosity {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
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In solo queue? She's one of my pocket picks while climbing and I tend to lock her in against weak early game compositions. ThEntropist is also a Diana enthusiast.
Dr Mercy (NA)
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Have ya'll had any chance to test out the new sightstone/'new' support items, or is that still in the paper stage?
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We've had a lot of testing and exposure with the sightstone changes for a couple of weeks now. As Lowbo said in his post, we're still ironing out some details before it ships.
Cethys (EUW)
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How much backlash would there have to be for you to cancel the Sightstone changes? Sorry, I'm just REALLY not fond of the idea at all.
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I know this is not what you want to hear, but I personally do not see us stopping the sightstone change as of now. Sorry. We believe that long-term this is definitely the right way to go. However, if there's a lot of issues once it hits live we'll actively attempt to fix or manage them. If it seems like we were not right about the long-term gains and that a strong portion of the community dislikes it, I could see us potentially taking bigger steps to address it. I'd expect these changes to go live and I hope that people such as yourself keep actively telling us how to improve it or what they dislike about it so we can keep making it better! :)
Quackas (NA)
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Hey Players more skilled than I that work at Riot! Was wondering what you thought about the power level of tank supports like Leona, Taric and Blitz in 8.1 compared to their counterparts in the support role. Med or someone posted about looking into a Blitz game-impact nerf which was subjected to a bit of scrutiny on reddit who thought taric and leo were more of an issue. What are your thoughts on this? Also is it wise to be changing individual support power levels just before introducing such a large change to the support landscape (potential removal of SS)? I do agree Blitz is a little too good all-around, I feel that is more Thresh's identity as a Catcher while Nauts is his tankiness as a Catcher and Blitz's (at least in my opinion with the 55th highest Blitz Mastery NA) is his mobility. I feel Blitz would have more of an identity if his W slow was removed (slowing yourself feels terrible) in exchange for a significant loss in durability.
Think tanks Supports are generally strong right now, and it's appropriate to nerf them as a class in some fashion. It's possible that nerfs specifically to tanks followed up by the Sightstone changes leave tank Supports in a poor spot, but tanks seem to be dominant in pro play currently and I think we'd be remiss to not address the situation soon rather than waiting for the Sightstone changes. There's also some benefit to having the Sightstone changes be the only systemic changes to Support on the patch they are released, so we get clear data on the impact of the change as isolated as possible. I do agree that Blitz might feel a little closer to Thresh currently. Playing up his mobility is an interesting idea, but I do think getting in there and getting silences/knockups on crucial targets is an important part of Blitz's teamfighting pattern when he doesn't land a great hook, so I think we'd need to be careful about hitting his durability too hard.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
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what is your thoughts on Brand {{champion:63}} ? I feel like this buff was just enough to restore the missing dmg from DfT. Do you guys think that a range increase on his E in order to help him in the late game could happen anytime? I feel like this hinders his performance in the mid / late game more than anything else, since he gets destroyed and outranged by almost everyone.
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I think is a pretty sizeable buff that fills that void that DFT left behind and I'm hoping it feels like it too! I think that adding a range on his E makes him too potent in the sense that his E and Q combo -> W would be too safe. He is a massive damage mage, and I think he needs to have some risks involved accessing it and adding range to E would take away from it.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
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You have a point there but later as the game goes on everyone outranges him, and getting into E range witch is just about AA range is close to impossible :(
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I feel ya. A big part of Brand is knowing when to start the fight, and that can be difficult especially in a punishing meta where you're really susceptible to long range poke, especially magic. This can lead to feeling like everyone out-ranges you. However, if you get into a teamfight and have ultimate, it can often help starting off with the ultimate if you think it's going to bounce to more people, hitting Q right after, then W + E-ing to finish off the combo. His ultimate range is a bit longer than his E, so you'll be safer - Downside is that you're using your ultimate in a potentially sub-optimal way and you might not always have it up, but, if it's a good time to use the ultimate and it's up it can be good to lead with it instead of E. Hope this helped a little bit. Thanks for stopping by the patch chat :)
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I think the buff is pretty sizable especially to support Brand. We've been seeing a lot more tanks (Ali/Braum/TK) pop up so the %hp could be a good reason to play him against that type of champion.
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Can you guys give us any context for the support itemization removals?
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There's a detailed post by ItsLowbo that explains the context of the upcoming sightstone changes! Check out the goals section in particular. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/xeAEIL6M-changes-to-sightstonesupport-items-coming-to-pbe?show=rundown Basically, we're looking to lessen the economic burden of supports who are typically required to spend 800 gold on a mandatory item (unless you're that guy who loves to play full AP "support" Lux).
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Is there any worries that will allow bot lane to power spike 800 gold sooner?
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There are concerns in particular with AP supports (e.g. Xerath, Brand, Vel'koz) reaching power spikes sooner with earlier magic pen from Sorc Shoes & Haunting Guise. Wouldn't be surprised if this became a popular option if the sustain of Relic + Fleet + Overheal gets nerfed.
We talked quite a bit about the reasoning in this post: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/xeAEIL6M-changes-to-sightstonesupport-items-coming-to-pbe TLDR: Right now we force Supports to pay an 800 gold tax before starting to itemize for their champion. We don't feel there's a great reason to continue doing so, and hope this allows players to enjoy Support more as a result.
Tyexus (EUNE)
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Wanted to ask about Evelynn: * She seems very strong with high win rate but low play rate. Do you thing she needs a nerf especially with the upcoming buff on runic echoes ? * And do you thing Frostfang will still be abused by ap junglers even after change (sighstone quest) ?
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We're investigating Evelynn changes. I agree, she's PRETTY POWERFUL. @.@ Though the play-rate is actually pretty sizable. As for Frostfang, it's a concern and we're looking to potentially make changes so junglers are less inclined to opt into the item.
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Hi Rioters, im a support main and having played every support champion (and many others), I found one I truly love to play as, it's {{champion:61}} I like shielding supports. And her support through the ball feels unique since I have to take in account her delay travel time of her of ball unlike a Lulu, Karma, or Janna's shield. Considering the effots to bring champs such as Zyra and Morg to both mid and support role, what is keeping the Lady of Clockwork from also being picked more often as a support mage/enchanter? Do the others supports just happen to do her job much better? I have this idea that just might be balanced in a way that it doesnt favor Orianna MID but helps her keep up with the other supports. - mana cost reduction of her E if she targets an ally, not herself. Woulnd't change Orianna midlane since they max QWE and wouldn't help her in weak unfavorable matchups (QEW). Any thoughts? I wanted an opinion on this pretty please. Thanks for doing everything you feel its best to make the gamr we love feel fun, enjoyable and rewarding, -Self proclaimed Support{{champion:61}} main Edit: wanted to add a Orianna Icon in there <3
Auberaun (NA)
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> [{quoted}](name=LifelessAngel,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=wRUXAmkK,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2018-01-10T22:36:35.979+0000) Considering the effots to bring champs such as Zyra and Morg to both mid and support role, what is keeping the Lady of Clockwork from also being picked more often as a support mage/enchanter? Do the others supports just happen to do her job much better? I think that's it. All that she brings besides a shield to the bot lane is an AOE slow, and in my mind that's not enough for a support to be top tier when other supports have that and more. Her ultimate is a pretty cool ability to have on a support, but other champions like Alistar have comparable CC to her ult on basic abilities. In my mind she's comparable to Taliyah support, but biased more towards defensive utility through her shield rather than the catch that Taliyah has. >mana cost reduction of her E if she targets an ally, not herself. Woulnd't change Orianna midlane since they max QWE and wouldn't help her in weak unfavorable matchups (QEW). Any thoughts? I wanted an opinion on this pretty please. I don't think that would move the needle. It doesn't really address any of the other problems I called out above. To help Orianna support I imagine we'd have to make more significant changes that would have to impact Mid somehow. It would be cool to have Orianna support as a secondary playstyle in the future (which it already kinda is as you play it!) but don't think we'll be doing anything in the near term.
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I believe the idea behind bring Morgana and Zyra into the mid lane was more of an effort to give them power in a lane they were originally intended for. I'm personally all for having tools for Orianna to feel good about going bot lane, but we don't have any immediate plans for that as far as I'm aware.
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> [{quoted}](name=Riot Ender L,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=wRUXAmkK,comment-id=001e0002,timestamp=2018-01-11T04:32:03.521+0000) > > I believe the idea behind bring Morgana and Zyra into the mid lane was more of an effort to give them power in a lane they were originally intended for. I&#x27;m personally all for having tools for Orianna to feel good about going bot lane, but we don&#x27;t have any immediate plans for that as far as I&#x27;m aware. Understood and perfecly understandble. Not having plans was expected. In any case, should the team ever intend on changing her in the future to better suit the support role, do pls heavily consider what I have to say. Most players do only build AP on her even on the support role. They focus on doing damage while very few of us support Oriannas focus on utility! They can't provide this sort perspective/viewpoint I do. The very few people I discuss OriSupp and have this utility focused playstyle share more or less the same perspecive as I do and I'll be mentioning some below. What we love the about OriSupp is: - the 1100 range on her E's shield, - the fact that the shield is also a 9 second cooldown at all ranks is good and even more so now that Janna has 18 secs rank one shield), - the fact that the passive armor and MR her E provides remains on the target even if the shield breaks unlike Janna's AD boost. - the ball gives undeniable vision. (I could go on but I'll keep it short, she also feels rewarding to learn supporting) I hope if she ever gets optimized to be a good support that these remain unchanged as they are now. They're what distiguishes her from other supports and what I really love about her kit from a support utilit focus perspective. If these are changed, I will deeeeeeeeply regret having had this conversation of Support Orianna with you guys! Its like, I might aswell been quiet since no1 seems to play or care about her as a support, but I love her. EDIT: I played her mid and while I can also support my team, its just not the same thing, I'd rather be using her kit for utility at any given time in the game. I dont want to bothered to be the one expected to be dealing damage. The worst change she could see is turning into a Brand Support focusing on raw power/damage. {{champion:61}} Thank you so so so much for responding! And for the SS changes too <3
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Appreciate you leaving a list of what you really like about the character here. Believe me, that is SUPER helpful info to have if we ever do any work on her to make her more viable in another role like support. Figuring out what certain players are attached to about a champion is a fantastic resource!
LankPants (OCE)
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It's a shame that the Zyra changes never actually addressed the inherent problem of Zyra mid, due to her high bases and low ratios on her main source of damage she doesn't actually convert gold into power efficiently which makes funnelling gold onto her questionable. I can't see Zyra ever going mid until this issue is solved even if she's effective there because there's just no scaling power and you may as well put her support where her high bases are more relevant.
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Difficulty here with changing around the ratios/base damages is that that could hurt support Zyra. Goal of the changes was to make her viable in mid without losing any power in the support role (since she has been struggling there for a while too). So her early game got a bit of a bump with the expectation that she could turn lane priority into an advantage, since she has a pretty rough time last-hitting when shoved into her tower.
8.2 is supposed to be a big Patch, but there are very few changes on the PBE atm. When can we expect to see more?
Auberaun (NA)
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Probably daily as designers iterate. Sometimes changes float around for a bit internally before going to PBE.
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Hello, friends 1. What's your take on Katarina on this patch? Still gonna be a high-priority ban at high elo? 2. What do you think of Relic Shield on ADCs? How about Vayne specifically? 3. Is Zombie Ward too strong? 4. I noticed in a PBE update that Ornn is no longer unstoppable during W. Could you offer some context on that? Very interesting change. 5. Is the new keystone rune in testing good for Master Yi or Tryndamere? What path/tree is it going to be part of? 6. Will work continue on making Zoe weaker, or less frustrating/annoying to play against? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcI0SGmAtXs&t=8m51s 7. What's your opinion on the dabbing penguin emote? 8. How will the changes to the patch cycle (alternating large and small patches) affect your work? 9. Any support mains here? What do you think of the Sightstone changes? 10. Do people still pick on you for nerfing Volibear?
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Heyo! I'll tackle the questions I can answer. 2 - I like that ADC's have the option to tradeoff their lane power to fuel a first item support power spike. That being said, I think relic shield start currently has little downside since the sustain provided in combination with Fleet + Overheal overshadows the lack of combat stats. All this in conjunction basically allowed Vayne's to more easily bypass her weaker laning phase. 3 - I feel like Zombie ward is a rune that scales up in effectiveness the higher elo you go. I personally think that it's a little too ubiquitous in competitive/pro play and may need to be toned down. 4 - Ornn has become a terror in competitive play (Highly contested pick/ban) and a pretty frustrating playing-against experience in the right hands. We're hoping to introduce some counterplay to his favorite ability by making W stoppable. 9 - I think it's a step in the right direction, but we need to be cautious on how meta-changing it will be. Rather not have the most optimal thing be everyone starting with a support item.
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9- It's a step in the wrong direction. It's change for change's sake. It's more limiting and than you seem realize. - Vision is now delayed and that delay depend on your role. - Build paths are now limited. - Reduced team the variation in composition in the bottom lane and jungle. -Made support less appealing by weakening items the role relies on. -Increased auto fills, dodges, and toxicity because you are now forcing players to play a weakened position.
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I'm not sure if I'm convinced! 1) Changes will be made to the support quest requirement so that acquisition times are around the 8 - 10 minute mark (ideally comparable to live). There are scenarios on live where you're able to grab sightstone a couple minutes earlier, but I personally think the benefit outweighs the cost. 2) On live, early build path itemization depends on how you prioritize gold generation, vision, and movement speed. With the upcoming changes, vision becomes replaced with working towards core items which I feel is less limiting. Why do you think build paths are now limited? 3) I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Why do you think there will be less variation in bottom lane/ jungle and what do you think will the dominant strategy? 4) I definitely agree that the old quest rewards & T3 actives will be missed. Players will probably feel this pain; there might be some plans to bring back these actives in other items. 5) Overall, I don't think support will be in a weaker state since the upcoming changes should make supports economically closer to other roles.
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What's with the Kha buff on PBE? Does Kha really NEED buffs?
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It's still something that's up in the air. We're actually also nerfing him (I think it hasn't been data mined yet?). Live Gameplay's looking into toning down the bonus AD ratio on his passive (to decrease power from his R evolution/passive damage). It's intended to be a slight power down, overall.
Auberaun (NA)
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Current plan right now is to target something that's somewhere between neutral and slightly negative, might have to do some more work to get there.
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I know you guys can't get to everything in every patch, but I think its a fair statement to say most everybody wants to see Ornn nerfed. Unfortunately we did not see it to start the new season. Care to elaborate on this decision?
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Not much to say here other than that it's being looked into now. We experimented with a list of changes that would've shipped in 8.1 but the designer wasn't convinced that it was a good set of changes at the time so they were pulled and iterated on. We'll likely ship something in 8.2 for Ornn (current list is R CD up and pulling unstoppability from W, which is on the PBE right now).
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Have any of you playtested the Irelia VGU yet? How fun would you say she feels now if you have? :) We talking Warwick VGU-level fun?
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GangIeri is the primary playtester on Irelia. Judging from the discussions I've heard, the playtesters who have played her feel that she's a lot of fun. ~
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Any thoughts on skarner's buffs? How did it affected him, do we need more love?
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.5s extra on a stun should be a decent boost in power. I think Skarner players should start experimenting with E max or 3 points Q into E max for the increased dame (some already do, but majority go Q). I don't think the mana does much to affect his overall power, but I never seem to have issues even when spamming spells off cooldown now. I think he should get to a much better spot with these changes. Will be interesting to see how the changes play out. I expect experienced Skarner players to really benefit from the E change while people who are less familiar and maybe max Q see less gains.
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I leveled up hoping to get 1350 blue essense so I can unlock Udyr because I have enough rp for the godyr skin. But then I only got 1347 blue essense and I had to wait for tomorrow for the first win of the day. Can you make it if you're 10 blue essense away from a champion unlock point such as 450 1350 3150 4800 6300 You instantly get the blue essense you need to be able to unlock the champ?
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This isn't really an area the playtest team has much insight/impact into.
Dratik (NA)
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Are you scared that the Skarner buffs may make him a tad too strong in favorable situations, while not really helping him in the situations where he already fails? Believe me, I love playing Skarner a lot, but these buffs feel a bit heavy handed without really fixing some of his issues (low mobility, telegraphed R, falling off late game, power discrepancy with spires and without). The extra stun duration kind of strikes me as "Here you go Skarner, if you get onto an enemy you can maul them for longer" but that never really was his problem if the Skarner has a proper build. His problem is actually getting to that enemy. Would've preferred something like more MS on W, or a stronger slow/faster projectile on E personally.
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I think the best part about buffing his E is that it is an inherently fair spell. Not only do I have to land a skillshot, I also have to run up and auto them. That means that success cases are definitely stronger but playing against would not be nearly as frustrating as a world where Skarner can run people down with ease. We could have tried to shore up his weaknesses, but I'm not convinced that would have necessarily been a better approach.
What's your thoughts on Eve? I love playing her, but learning her has been frustrating. I keep getting invaded, and idk what to do to get ahead. If I farm, my team asks for ganks, and if I gank pre-6, I misplay a lot. Any advice?
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She's currently a pretty powerful pick. Part of her early play pattern involves recognizing the enemy junglers intended play pattern. So, if I'm against Lee Sin, I'll focus on monitoring his start location (whether through a ward or which lane shows first on the map) and then change my pathing accordingly. In general, I prioritize farming over ganking on Evelynn (until 6) but am acutely aware of the enemy junglers locations if they show. This gives me opportunities to look to counterjungle to build a lead or to potentially deter/countergank with my W.
What's her pathing?
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It depends on the game. You could opt for a blue buff start, transitioning into wolves/raptors/red/krugs. Or a wolf start (leaving one small wolf up), blue buff, small wolf, raptors, red. Or you could go for a raptors start instead with talisman. Those options should allow you to diversify your starting route to ensure you wont suffer from an invade as long as you pay attention to what route the enemy jungler took.
What comps is she strong or weak in? Are there any must ban champs?
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She fits well in teamfighting compositions, imho. Especially with at least one other AP user who could benefit off your MR shred. I always ban Jarvan (and Kayn/Lee Sin are good options as well).
Vonler (EUNE)
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Riot is actually supporting the gimmicky catch-up exp strategy? Why?
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Speaking candidly here, the strategy is there and players are actively using it. In this Patch Chat, it's best to perceive us as players as well as Rioters & I'd rather opt to suggest correct play patterns instead of foregoing that information when it may potentially improve a player's in-game success.
Wait I've always been using talisman for Eve. Are there times I should be using the hunter one?
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I like to pick Machete if I'm starting blue. Talisman is generally better, though, if you're focusing on less aggressive single camp counter jungling; especially if you opt to clear raptors and red at the same time.
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We&amp;rsquo;re also down to just chat though! So, how are you? :D
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I'm doing well. had a donut for breakfast so today is pretty value.
aCup of Tea (EUNE)
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Hi into a new year, I'm not entirely sure if I got it correctly but new sightstone removal will unlock some gold for supports. How do aggressive mages in support do with that bit of gold open for them, are they more oppressive? Are there any possible nerf considerations to some mages thanks to that change which could transcend to mid lane nerfs? Well not like everyone bought sightstone on mages but hey there are people who tried to play more supportive role like that. :0 Thanks.
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AP Mages definitely take the advantage on this change as they can rush their AP magic pen items sooner and are often not gated by heavy mana requirements, making them not have to go into morello. However, with the removal of the support quest reward and them not getting health on the sightstone item unless it's upgraded to the max sightstone (buy ruby crystal and upgrade cost); ap mages are getting hit in other ways to pay for this. They're not getting a free sightstone per se but rather the vision aspect which is valued at around 400g on live right now. 400g does definitely go a far way in helping them get more magic penetration and become more snowbally, but, I do not think that it's going to be too oppressive. As always, we'll be monitoring this very well once it hits live and taking any action necessary :)
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Do you have any plans for Tahm Kench? feels a bit weak
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Not as of now, sorry!
oliZilo (EUNE)
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Hi Recently i've sent a ticket about a possible improvement for the upcoming season concerning ranked games and i got a very supportive reply as well as i was adviced to contact the devs via forums so the following can be seen and discussed in public. Concerning the ranked games LP system. my recent experience playing solo/duo ranked games shows that despite any improvements done all these years concerning the matchup, most of the times we are still matched with teamates who are unable or don't wont to perform and this usually leads to a very bad game experience. surely most players have often a bad game and i'm certainly among them, i don't consider myself any good but i do have some bursts of very good play. so.. here is the idea i expressed in the ticket: ** i'm wondering if the LP gain/loss could work together with the "Champion Mastery" and specifically with the grade we receive after each game. I believe if the LP gain / Loss is tied to the performance of each player rather than to the game outcome, then it should be more fair. ** e.g if a player performed very bad, but his/her team "carried" and they won the game, the LP gains should be less for that player, or if he/she was the best performer but lost the game, the LP loss should be less than a teamate who performed badly. that way i believe anyone who has constantly bad performance (in purpose or not) rightfully remains to a lower division for a longer time until there's some improvement and also cannot hold back teamates who are good enough but the matchup system and their teamates used to "betray" them.
Auberaun (NA)
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I think this idea is cool and would work if there was a way to objectively measure performance on a game by game basis, but there's really not, because "performance" is a very subjective thing. There are metrics you can look at like KDA, but what can you look at to tell if the person with the low KDA was sacrificing themselves all game for their team to make plays, and actually the reason they win? I've been in games where a 0/11 Tryndamere wins the game because he never stops split pushing and draws a lot of attention to himself, even if he doesn't even get to kill any towers. There's also games where the 0/11 Tryndamere loses the game because he's repeatedly dying. > that way i believe anyone who has constantly bad performance (in purpose or not) rightfully remains to a lower division for a longer time until there's some improvement and also cannot hold back teamates who are good enough but the matchup system and their teamates used to "betray" them. That already exists in the current system. If someone is playing badly consistently, then they only have 4 chances to roll "good" players, while the enemy team has 5 chances to roll "good" players. Statistically, they'll drop over a number of games. Alternatively, if you play consistently well, you only have 4 chances to have "bad" players on your team but the enemy has 5 chances to have "bad" players on theirs.
Good day Riot, I find my self posting for the first time to ask the question: Is there any news on potential new runes for some of the champs that have less synergy with the current system? Or are you looking to buff/nerf champs based on how well they synergies with the new system? It is interesting to play a champ that doesn't have a distinct "best choice in every case scenario" rune. However it does feel that you are at some what of a disadvantage sometimes. For example, I will always take Electrocute on Zed as it is so effective even though a little boring. However, with say Darius who has no "optimal in every case" rune, I find my choices change dramatically dependent on match up, adding a more interesting I'll be it less effective use of runes. TL/DR Will you be balancing champions so that different rune build paths will have similar efficiency or are you willing to have one rune set up always be dominate for a champion/New runes?
penguin (NA)
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There is a rune in testing specifically for top lane bruisers that have lacked a Keystone. Can't reveal more than that unfortunately.
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Hey guys, im wondering whats up with Zoe, this patch's nerf really didnt seem to make a difference and I don't see a nerf for next patch, but Heimer nerf was quite serious and next patch champs like Ornn are getting looked at (on FF20) but Zoe still seems largely untouched and very overtuned. Thoughts?
penguin (NA)
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Zoe's nerfs this patch actually look like they did a reasonable amount for the case we wanted to hit (QQR by experienced Zoe players having degenerate gameplay/low counterplay). I do think that Zoe will likely have further changes in the future, but we'll see how things pan out.
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Why a 50% beam reduction on {{champion:74}} R -> Q turret upgrade (AKA Big Bertha). He dropped from 53% to 49% W/R https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Heimerdinger/ Why not a 20-40% reduction instead?
penguin (NA)
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His winrate on our internal metrics is pretty different, ours show him as only dropping a little bit (around half a percent of winrate for most players, and even less for higher MMR players). Frankly, his beam was mistuned and overkilling his targets quite frequently IMO.
Sohbek (NA)
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Do you even play Heimer? He is so severely unwhelming right now. It feel like now I die before I get a chance to do anything. Another mage that suffers from the mobility creep with his lack of it. Some of us don't want to play the Ahri's etc. I'm quite frustrated but i'm keeping my snarky comments to myself lol That way we all can be supportive.
penguin (NA)
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Heimer has been overperforming ever since Runes Reforged hit. Ahri is in a weaker spot than him, IMO.
Sohbek (NA)
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Thank you for responding. I do appreciate it. I often like to play the forgotten children of LoL so it is nice of you to respond. But do you play the character? I am talking about how he feels to play. I feel quite a difference even from before rune reforged. I am just casual player so I know my point of reference and context is biased in such a way.
penguin (NA)
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>But do you play the character? I am talking about how he feels to play. I feel quite a difference even from before rune reforged. Yes, I'm the playtest SME for Heimer and play him quite regularly. I feel that he's quite powerful personally. Heimer actually skews towards better performance at higher MMRs, so he might feel weaker in your games if you play primarily casually
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There seems to be a communication issue, especially with the disparity in aggregate information for winrates and the like. Wouldn't it help communication and the understanding behind these changes if we could see the same information you guys do rather that having to rely on things like champion.gg or OP.GG which you guys have said are inaccurate? May help in situations where the community is very confused by changes such as Voli nerfs, heavy heimer nerfs, and fairly small Zoe nerfs.
penguin (NA)
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There's lots of internal conversation going on about sharing our data with players -- I know it sucks to hear something this vague, but I'm not clear as to what I can say publicly about the topic.
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What are your thoughts in overgrowth?
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I like Overgrowth as a design in its promise of "infinite" scaling and being the long-term payoff rune in its drawer, but I think currently its relative weakness keeps it from being exciting. Both Revitalize and Second Wind are strong options for most champions in most situations, whereas Overgrowth is both more niche and generally less powerful. That said, I'm not sure a straight buff would be appropriate for the rune as it's already decent in some cases and it has a lot of potential to disrupt gamestate if it's too strong (making tanks/bruisers tankier than they should be).
LankPants (OCE)
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On the other hand any jungler without sustain gets forced into Overgrowth with no choice at all. You're right that this doesn't need straight buffs, Resolve as a tree is problematic and needs complete a overhaul.
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Junglers are generally best off taking Revitalize even if they don't have sustain, as it affects both the sustain from jungle items (Talisman drain/Machete lifesteal) and the health gained from Smite. There is some exploration happening in Resolve to see if the minor runes can be made more satisfying/visibly impactful, though it's early in the process right now and there's no guarantee anything will ship.
HoneyOTU (OCE)
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I'm not expecting much of an answer but do any of you think Zed needs nerfs? A high skill-cap assassin really shouldn't be one of the most promiment mid laners imo {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
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Though this doesn't directly answer your question, I don't think it's objectively wrong that a high skillcap assassin can end up being a prominent mid laner. In the right meta this could happen to any champion really, regardless of skillcap, if they're positioned correctly in terms of matchups/itemization/rune synergy/etc. As far as Zed goes, it doesn't seem like he's out of line to me but I'm not super up to date on the status of midlane. While he's quite popular at the moment, he's not winning a disproportionate amount of his games and doesn't seem to be super oppressive.
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Thoughts on {{champion:13}}? It's sad to see my boy at 44% win rate (yeah i know he is better in comp) but i love the depth that ryze has and would like to see him getting some love.
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It's definitely sad to see Ryze's winrate in soloqueue but he's a dangerous champion to buff given his prevalence in competitive. As far as I know there are no immediate plans for Ryze but it's something that's been discussed recently. Personally I'd like to see some changes to shift some power towards uncoordinated play, though it would have to come at the cost of power from somewhere else, likely his ultimate as that's the part of his kit most tilted towards competitive.
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