[MEGATHREAD] Let's Discuss: Rengar

Hi everyone! Welcome to Let’s Discuss, a community-let project where we get to focus discussion around a selected topic, and give concentrated, high-quality feedback to Riot. To start off this series, let’s discuss **Rengar**: a controversial champion even after two reworks, he continues to upset many players to this day. This includes even his own core players, many of whom have major issues with his most recent rework, and whose collective efforts and communication with us Gameplay Wardens led to the creation of this megathread. Before you post, here are some core rules: * **Constructive discussion above all:** This is the golden rule. We all have different opinions, and some of these opinions are almost certainly going to clash with each other. This is not an excuse to disrespect each other or derail conversation into personal arguments. If you are going to post here, it is going to be with the intent of contributing to the topic of discussion, and by extension the game as a whole. We Wardens will be monitoring this thread very closely to make sure this happens. * **Stay concise:** because there’s going to be a lot of discussion, and because others are going to be reading through this, it is important to keep things as brief as possible. This is not the place to post your full 3-page rework concept, even if a link to it or a few key suggestions will help. Be sure to read through the major conversations here, as well as the summary below, to check if something you want to share has been said before. Focus discussion about Rengar on this thread: We’ve all seen Gameplay blow up with half a dozen threads on the front page talking about more or less the same topic. This is a chance to avoid that: if you see this megathread and want to talk about Rengar, post here! You’ll have a higher chance of getting feedback from others, as well as Riot’s attention. * **If you disagree, respond, don't downvote:** Tbh this should be a general rule across Gameplay, but the downvote button is not for when you disagree with someone else's opinion. If a player is legitimately being toxic and disrupting conversation, you can downvote them, and are encouraged to report them, but otherwise hold off of that button and instead try to formulate a reply that states why you disagree. * **Try to frame your feedback around these three questions (this is more of a guideline):** * **What is your criticism of the current state of Rengar?** * **What do you want Rengar’s gameplay fantasy to be?** * **What changes would you suggest to Rengar?** Good luck, and happy commenting! Be sure to check on this thread in the future, as we’ll be filling out the summary in this OP of this megathread’s current major talking points. Here are some of the major points that have sprung up often in discussion: * **Criticism of Rengar's current state:** * Bonetooth Necklace's stacking bonus AD feels like a missed opportunity, as its bonuses feel pretty bland and not particularly interactive for Rengar or his opponents. * Savagery in its current state feels clunky due to its animation lock, and doesn't feel like it meshes well with the rest of Rengar's current kit. * Battle Roar feels like it clashes with Rengar's playstyle in its current state due to its reactive nature, which works against his Ferocity stacking, and its heal based on damage taken, which makes him feel like he's soaking up tons of damage, rather than playing well. * The guaranteed crit mechanic on Rengar's ultimate does not feel appropriate. * The telegraphing to Rengar's ult feels excessive in some circumstances, as organized teams get plenty of time to group up and deny Rengar any kind of opening. * Rengar doesn't feel like he's outplaying his opponents, or that he has the option to do so. * Rengar's diver and assassin aspects currently do not mesh well on a thematic and gameplay level; some of the things he does feel like they clash against others. W, for example, feels appropriate for a diver, but not for an assassin. * Rengar still needs more counterplay, but his ult does not feel like the right place to add it. * **Rengar's Gameplay Fantasy:** * Emphasis on fluidity of movement and speed. * It's important that Rengar gets to force duels through his stealth and roaming. * Rengar is a champion who should be great at making picks. * One-shotting is **not** an aspect of Rengar that seems particularly popular, even among his core players. * Players are relatively split on whether Rengar should be more of a diver, or more of an assassin, generally leaning slightly towards assassin. Many players want him to be a hybrid of both. * Rengar is a proactive champion with an emphasis on preparation, rather than reaction. * Emphasis on interactivity: Rengar should win a fight due to good preparation and skill in combat, not through spam or "free" power. * **Suggested Changes:** * Change Bonetooth Necklace's effects into bonuses that are both more interesting to Rengar, and more interactive for his targets. * Change Q into something more fluid, or revert it into its autoattack reset while still trying to give it more interactivity. * Alter W to be more proactive, rather than reactive. * Remove the guaranteed crit on ult. * Tone down or remove the warning on the ult so that Rengar can still catch targets by surprise.
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