Do you consider Juggernauts as tanks?

This always intrigued me, but for those of you who don’t know I found out there’s actually a huge divide on weather or not Juggernauts should be considered as tanks. If you want my opinion the answer is “it depends more on the build than the champion at that point” but let me give you an example Champions like {{champion:86}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:36}} are ridiculously tanky in the right circumstances. They all have healing scaling with their tank stats, Darius has pretty massive AOE, Garen has damage reduction and both Garen and Mundo have innate Tenacity, so what makes them different from tanks? I think most people arguing against these three will immediately jump to one of three things when arguing that Juggernauts aren’t tanks. And I wanna tackle each of these 1. Cc reliability 2. Building ONLY defensive stats 3. Play style However, others would argue that this doesn’t matter when picking a tanks, as long as the champion can do these things: 1. Soak up damage 2. Demand attention from the enemy team regardless of how 3. Have defensive scaling tools to survive I’ll put up a quick discussion of what I think of each of these points, and why I personally disagree or agree with them. **Crowd control** This is the reasoning I hear the least often when it comes to this, but the idea of tanks needing CC to be tanks has come up multiple times. However in my opinion, this is an old idea that doesn’t really hold up anymore. Nowadays, almost every champion has some form of strong CC, but the idea is tanks should have the most in the game, because without it they would make little to no impact due to their low damage, and low mobility. Champions like {{champion:111}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:12}} have CC out the god-damn wazoo, but then... what about champions like {{champion:44}} {{champion:54}} and {{champion:98}} ? Who only have 1 source of hard CC? Should they not be considered tanks? What about other champions with Huge CC like {{champion:267}} {{champion:150}} or {{champion:92}}? I simply disagree with the idea that “tanks need CC to be tanks”. It’s useful sure, but the old adage that needs to die IMO **building defensive items** Now this one is one I see in EVERY discussion on this topic. Hybrid items like {{item:3071}} {{item:3748}} and {{item:3053}} are constantly being called out for not giving only tank stats and therefore not being built on tanks, and I have to agree, if they’re only building those items. If a fighter only builds hybrid items with maybe one tank item then no, they’re not a tank. They most likely can’t frontline, and if they can do so, then it won’t be for too long, but I’d also argue a {{champion:122}} with {{item:3071}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3742}} is a stupidly effective frontline that I have to respect. To me this argument holds more ground than the previous argument. A champion who builds nothing but damage and hybrid items isn’t a frontline tank, but because most of the Juggernauts do still build at least half their builds as pure tank items I still consider them tanks in the mid to late game. Take {{champion:266}} and {{champion:82}} for example; I wouldn’t consider either of these two as tanks because their builds make their tankiness unreliable, and instead build around their lifesteal or shielding to survive. Early game may be different depending on what item was started. TLDR: Sure someone with all tank items could frontline better, but that doesn’t mean someone with MOSTLY tank items can’t frontline at all. **playstyle** Finally the idea that I agree the most with, playstyle. In league of legends there are subclasses that dictate fairly heavily what a champions playstyle is. Wardens like {{champion:78}} {{champion:20}} and {{champion:44}} focus primarily on being tanks themselves as well as making it harder to get to their teammates through Area denial, peel, and granting defensive bonuses. They need to be tanks to more effectively do their job. Vanguards like{{champion:54}} {{champion:33}} And {{champion:154}} focus on starting fights and busting heads through very powerful and potent engage, followed by low but consistent damage. They need to be tanks because they have no way to exit a fight that they start, so they must survive the inevitable damage coming their way. But Juggernauts are different. Juggernauts like {{champion:36}} {{champion:102}} (who is part-Vanguard) and {{champion:266}} idealize being an absolute unit that demands attention, or else they’ll solo-kill important members of your team. They need to be tanks in order to survive people focusing them in a fight, but that’s just like everyone else. Juggernauts don’t get tanks for the sake of their team, but to survive on their own. They’re not mitigating damage like Wardens, nor do they want to be in the middle of a fight like Vanguards, they want to do their damage, and not tank. Therefore, how can they be tanks? Now let’s go over some of the arguments FOR the Juggernauts **Juggernauts can soak damage** This. Is. Dumb. Almost as dumb as the idea you need a lot CC otherwise you can’t be a tank. Listen, being able to frontline isn’t a privilege only held by tanks, there are TONS of champions who can break the mold that don’t even fall into the Juggernaut category. {{champion:127}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:240}} none of these guys are tanks, but played well they’re all effective frontlines. Just being able to take large amounts of damage should NEVER dictate weather you’re considered a tank, IMO. **have defensive tools to survive** Now this reasoning a little better. Most tanks have some sort of defensive scaling to survive better than just any champion building defensive stats, but if this determines how well someone can be a tank than it’s important to look at Juggernauts too, because they also have defensive scaling stats and good base stats. {{champion:201}} has damage reduction, and bonus Armor/ MR, but so does {{champion:86}} {{champion:57}} has a % health heal on a low cooldown, but so does {{champion:122}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:12}} have some of the highest base health in the game And so on. While I argue that just being able to take a lot of damage shouldn’t make you a tank, I would argue that defensive scaling can. Sure champs like {{champion:50}} have a % Heal, but it’s unreliable, and without his Ult, he can’t be a reliable frontline. **Demanding attention** Finally we have what I believe is the most important aspect of a tank, demanding attention. By forcing enemies to waste their Damage, Debuffs, and Crowd control on someone who’s made to take it, they’re putting themselves at a disadvantage, and to me that’s what tanks are all about, and believe it or not, most Juggernauts fit this category too. Wardens {{champion:44}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:98}} focus on mitigating damage off of teammates while being hard to focus themselves {{champion:78}} {{champion:3}} (yes he’s a warden){{champion:20}} use their large AOE deterrents to force enemies to either back off or take damage/CC Vanguards {{champion:154}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:57}} focus on getting in a teamfight and being as disruptive as possible, making the enemies options either attacking them with full effectiveness or attacking their teammates with less effectiveness While vanguards like {{champion:54}} {{champion:516}} and {{champion:33}} instead focus on having enough damage to be threatening, but only to a certain extend. Most Juggernauts focus all their attention to being threatening though, and the team makes the decision to ignore them and loose a teammate, or focus them and let their team do what they want, and that’s why I think some juggernauts still work as tanks. At the end of the day this idea really comes down to how you define tanks. To me, I see tanks as champions who are most effective in the frontline and can survive for extended periods of time even when focused by 2-3 champions, and some Juggernauts fit that as well, hell even some mages and fighters fit that description, but I’m interested in hearing the discussions of others.
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