The "Shaco" Situation...

* Hey guys, I just wanted to clear some main issues of Shaco as it is right now out in this post... If you don't like long posts about issues of "x" champion, feel free to click away... I'm just gonna clarify that English is my second language, so some sentences might not make any sense, but I hope they do... * Buffs won't really fix anything, he needs a rework... People saying that he's overpowered don't realize that his main source of damage are items and runes (mainly dark harvest and duskblade), with his kit not doing any damage what so ever... Here are the main problems with Shaco's abilities explained, and a little bit about the champion: * His Passive is honestly a joke Passive for an assassin, his current passive Backstab b a Bruiser passive rather than an Assassin one. He crits his enemies (Or other things such as minions and monsters) from behind (it's really buggy when clearing the jungle, sometimes you're critting a monster from the front, sometimes you can't backstab a monster from behind. Usually happens to be the case with the raptor camp when playing on higher ping), but against champions its only 130% damage (200% to monsters), which is a really weak crit IMO, that gets a cd on a target for around 2 secs. This Passive has many issues... Mainly the fact that you aren't able to proc it multiple times on one squishy target as Assassin Shaco in teamfights, because it's always the first auto attack that matters... His Q ability, Deceive is is a flash-like range blink that allows him to go through terrain etc. giving him stealth on impact. The problem with this ability is the unbelivable nerf it received in patch 7.7. The ENTIRE base damage was REMOVED from it. Honestly this ability was one of the reasons Shaco was an Assassin. The on-auto damage you were getting on the next auto attack after Q'ing was really important for Assassin Shaco (The main reason why it got nerfed was NOT because of Assassin Shaco being too strong, but rather because of the BRUISER BUILD we were forced to build in order to deal damage, because the reworked Shaco's damage wasn't really high compared to other assassins, not allowing him to kill squishy targets as quickly as other Assassins at the time, the Bruiser Build (Trinity Force > Titanic Hydra) however allowed you to kill squishies while still making you really tanky). Like I've just said, removing the entire base damage and scallings from his Q ability was a huge pain for every Shaco player at the time, making the r/shacomains subreddit start ranting and getting mad about it (Imagine riot removing Talon's damage on his Q ability, it would be too much of a nerf... Many Shaco players have either the champion itself or league entirely. That's basically how we, Shaco Mains felt about Riot removing Shaco's Q damage). As for right now, We are forced to at least put extra 1 or 2 points into an ability that doesn't deal any damage in order to at least have any ganking ability (trust me, 1,5s of stealth simply isn't long enough to gank). Right now Shaco is the only champion in the game that HAS to put 1 or 2 extra points to an ability that doesn't deal any damage early game in order to gank, making his level 3 ganks impossible unless the enemy is under your laner's tower... * The only time you don't really have to put points into this ability is when you're an afk farming shaco, which happens to be a pretty common playstyle for some Shaco players, simply because risking anything in the early game as Shaco, always means risking more than other Jungle Champions. This low risk-low reward playstyle allows you to farm up untill you get your core items, because his power only comes from items... You will NEVER see a Shaco who is behind one shotting ANYBODY! Shaco can ONLY one shot when he's AHEAD, unlike other assassins such as Rengar, Kha'Zix, Zed, Talon, etc. who can actually AT LEAST do something when they're behind... * Next up on the list is his W Jack in the Box Ability. This is the core ability for AP Shaco Toplane, but let's focus on AD Assassin Shaco. Shaco usually places boxes on his first camp, or splitting boxes in between camps. They make Shaco's first clear really fun, sometimes frustrating, attacking the wrong target, but overall they provide some strategy to the first jungle clear. The issue with Shaco relying on his boxes during the first clear is the enemy team, because sometimes they can simply put zyra plants on top of them in order to trigger them, or just simply walk into them. This can put Shaco extremely behind in the jungle, which doesn't really happen to other junglers, because of Shaco's unique kit . All though this ability seems to be really frustrating to deal with, they're really easy to counter ifs you know how to counter them. When fighting Shaco as the enemy jungler, the only way of you dying is taking the damage from the JitB (W) ability, so simply smiting the box before it can even fear you usually makes shaco unable to win the fight, unless you screw up really hard. * Some people can also argue that it's pretty unfair that Shaco can take Ignite instead of Flash and kill you early game, because he doesn't need Flash with his Q Deceive ability. Okay lads, the truth behind Shaco taking Ignite instead of Flash in most cases is NOT because of him having a "Free Flash" like some people like to say because of his Q Deceive ability, but rather because of the early game power it provides. Shaco's early game is pretty mediocre, because he doesn't have any items at the time (Shaco is a really item dependent champion), and little damage coming from his kit, we take Ignite on Shaco in most cases, simply because it allows us to have some pressence in the early game, so we can get a lead and snowball (at least that's what we're aiming for, when taking it). The next problem of this ability is how squishy it actually is. Shaco's Boxes late game tend get one shotted AD Carries' auto attacks and most of mages' abilities, with it not dealing any damage and only being useful for the fear (the JitB needs to arm before it can fear being visible for everybody. In late game nearly everybody can one shot them before they can even arm). * His E Two-Shiv Poison ability used to be a really good ability before the rework. After riot reworked Shaco, issues with this ability started... Right after Shaco's rework, his E Two-Shiv Poison ability had 5 base magic damage at rank 1 scalling with the enemies' missing % health. Which at that point was a joke honestly. This ability was an another reason why we started playing Bruiser Shaco (with most of Shaco players hating that playstyle), low AD/AP scallings and high base damage on this ability made it irrelevent to go Assassin Shaco, when you could simply go Bruiser and abuse the base damage, ~~just like every damn tank abuses his base damage and outdamages everybody~~. Someday this ability received a mini-rework. The damage was changed from Magic to Physical, the % missing health scalling was removed, the base damage got higher by a bit, and another scalling based on how low the enemy is added (a bit different than how it used to work before). This made AP Shaco unable to use voidstaff anymore, because it was simply not worth it to build an AP anti Magic Resist item if your E deals physical damage (it still scalled with AP), and only your boxes and the clone explosion (it's damage is also a joke compared to how much it used to deal, they nerfed the clone explosion by 200 base damage!). This was the official death of Full AP Shaco, so players like Pink Ward were forced to build hybrid on Toplane Shaco. As for right now, this ability, as the only real damaging ability Shaco has, deals less damage than an auto attack from early game to mid game, with it's scallings being terrible... * And finally for Shaco's Ultimate Ability Hallucinate... This ability makes you dissapear from the map for 0,5s and then create a Clone of yourself who can attack other players and when killed or when the clone's duration expires, he explodes dealing damage and leaving 3 Weaker JitBs on the ground formed in a triangle. This ability seems to be solid on paper, but in reality Shaco's Clone is really buggy. He doesn't seem to work with many item effect such as Statikk Shiv, RFC, Kircheis Shard, etc. What the Clone works with however are Duskblade and Sheen, being able to apply the damage from these items. It may sound broken, that a Shaco can simply Q onto a target and then pop his R and delete an AD Carry, but if he does that, then he has no real way of escaping (unless he has GA, or Stopwatch) the fight after he kills the target. Most of the time he gets the kill and dies right after. So now let's compare that to other Assassins, for example Kha'Zix - he can run around the map being stealthed most of the time thanks to his R Evolve (which is a really popular evolve on him right now), so he simply runs from a bush, leaps onto the squishy target, then autos the target with Duskblade, uses Q, W and then uses R in order to reset Duskblade, autos the target again if the target wasn't dead from the auto > Q > W combo (which is really rare rare situation for Kha'Zix), and then using the E reset (because most of Kha'Zix players already have their E Evolved at this point) in order to get away to safety, or jump onto another squishy and then delete him. The only use for Shaco's clone for Assassin Shaco is using it to dodge stuff (with the 0,5s of being out of the map right after casting it), or simply blocking skillshots with him. His main job is being a sponge, that relies on how stupid your enemy is instead of being an Assassin tool. * To wrap it up, I'm just gonna say that Riot should start at least answering Shaco Mains' questions instead of straight up ignoring us for over a year. Having champions such as Kha'Zix, Kayn or even a god damn MF and not Shaco on the compensation list for the Duskblade nerf doesn't seem fair to us. The only reason why Shaco has over 53% winrate, is because he requires the player to have the game knownledge, you can't simply say that you want to play Shaco and have success just as you're picking him up in your games. Shaco is a really unique champion, and a really complicated one. That's why people playing Shaco in your games are always Shaco mains or Shaco One Tricks having higher winrates. 90% of the entire Shaco Playrate are Shaco Mains and One Tricks. Most of these players (me included) simply love our Clown as a champion and don't want to stop playing him... We could, we all could just be abusing other assassins like Kha'Zix right now and one shotting everything that is alive, but we choose to stick with our Clown...

We're testing a new feature that gives the option to view discussion comments in chronological order. Some testers have pointed out situations in which they feel a linear view could be helpful, so we'd like see how you guys make use of it.

Report as:
Offensive Spam Harassment Incorrect Board