[SHACO] Now.. i see a lot of people complaining about things that are mainstream. Lets talk Shaco.

Hey there. Any Shaco buffs? I am constantly getting ahead as Shaco through correct plays and not inherently champion strength but I still can't really do enough with the champion even when I am 10/0 for example. Most of my games, i do get 5-10 kills with little to no deaths, just because i play him correctly, but when we get to midgame where the enemy groups up, Shaco not only cant do a thing, but the enemies who he has dominated up until now, just kill him because they managed to finish their first item. Shaco is an assassin and he cant assassinate squishy targets who have ninja tabis, even though he might be 10/0 and the target 2/5. I know KDA doesn't mean much, but it should be indicative to an extent. If i play Shaco and i don't get at least 4 kills in the early game, i am afraid to jump in on people in the midgame, even with neutral kda and solid farm, just because if shaco is fed, he is on par, if he is not fed, he is out of the game. The picture i've attached is a fight that i had with Morde. Sure. Shaco is not meant to deal with champions like morde, but for F's sake, i have items worth 7500 gold and I am one level above him whereas he has items worth 3300 gold. He won the fight without his R with not much struggle, sure he flashed, but thats it. This has happened to me previously where in the endgame, im so far ahead that i've sold my boots to get a 6th item, where as the morde against me has barely 3 items and he still kills me without R, without hitting his spells, only with autos and passive. Thats a bit absurd. Like.. Lets get a lvl 11 Shaco for example. At that point, a Shaco should have about 200 damage : Passive - Backstab, 5s cd, +30% damage for ONE autoattack IF you hit the enemy from behind. Thats 60 bonus damage. Q - 20 damage + 10 from scaling - 30 damage total W - Unreliable in fight, 2s delay, in that amount of time they can kill you and walk through it without it even triggering. Lets say it does trigger - 0.5s stun + 50 damage. E - 50 damage + 50 damage scaling. 100 total. Slows for like 1 second, 30%. The slow helps when hitting, but its not really great in the early early game. R - Deals 75% of damage but the self stun from his R + the movement displacement means that you will almost never reliably get the clone to attack in a fight. Sure. He CAN attack and he will, but he won't get more than 3 autoattacks before the fight is over and you have to run or the enemy has used an escape or something. 2 autos is average scenario - 2x150dmg = 300 dmg. Total damage from all abilities = 60+30+50+100+300 = 540 in an average to best scenario. Base armor (average) among champions on lvl 11 - 55. Thats around 36% physical damage reduction. So our 540 damage becomes 345 from ALL OF SHACO'S ABILITIES versus enemies with no armor items. If they get a cloth armor or tabis, that number drops way below 300. So what ELSE does he get for his 345 damage @ lvl 11 ? 1.Well he gets the ability to enter a fight from stealth, sure, thats great. Thing is, ability has 15 seconds cooldown so if you use it to jump in, you either have to fight or die. 2. Unreliable/easy to dodge and see zoning box that MIGHT or might NOT work. Thats like, less than a second of a stun (at lvl 11, lvl 1 W). 3. 25% slow from E 4. POTENTIAL to outplay with clone (more often than not the one that dies is the real one because thats how the game works, its not only luck but there are other variables that point out who the real shaco is, for example, conqueror stacks show on the real shaco and not on the clone, vayne/kaisa passive etc.) So shaco is an assassin with 350 total damage at lvl 11 with stealth, no escape, one of the weakest slows in the game and a potential to bamboozle. What the hell? I don't want to calculate other champions' damage but hell, thats pretty darn weak. I'd even say that at lvl 11, the average shaco doesn't even have 200 damage but less than that. Shaco is quite a bit weak and here are some changes that are to be considered. >\* edit ( new ) : Maybe just rework him dunno lol hehe xd >\* Since he is a trickster illusionist, maybe make his W a "hallucionation" charm style cc. make it last like at least 0.75s and make it so that it amplifies all damage by another 30%. Make it so it also pulls champions towards it instead of away from it. This way, it would still be a fair damage boost, it would give more purpose to the already weak boxes, it would give him damage but not on his immediate combo, thus it would require more setup etc. If you put it in a bush and wait for a person to walk in, they'd be pulled towards you instead of away from you. I dont know about AP tho, never played ap shaco. > \* Arm time on boxes lowered to 1s instead of 2s > \* Make E a skillshot with more damage or just stun when you throw and increase passive slow by 5% at all ranks (Shaco isn't a fighter, he is an assassin, he isnt really meant to do that anyways) > \* Fix the backstab. Sometimes the backstab hitbox is on the front of the model. Some units' models rotate CONSTANTLY like raptors, whereas most units only rotate just before they attack. Overall super buggy. > \* Give his Q some damage, come on. 30 damage? Its super unreliable and almost unusable until the third rank and not only that, but it gives no damage. At its max rank it gives way too much stealth and at its first, way too little. > \* Make his clone more reliable. More often than not, he doesn't follow commands, he doesn't really move every time you press R, sometimes he just looks there and doesn't attack until you move him a bit and then attack, when you press R on inhibitors he doesn't attack them, you have to Alt+RMB inhibs to attack them, 37% damage to structures, really? Atleast up that to 50%, i mean, nasus can twoshot towers with defensive items but shaco can't even use his clone to deal 1/2 of his damage to structures. Come on Riot. > \* Clone explode radius. Its a 300 radius and 150 of that is taken up by the clone itself. Thats nothing, they literally have to be jammed into the clone to take damage. > \* Miniboxes last like 2 seconds, thats kinda trash. > \* Passive hits for 30% bonus damage. There are champions like Kog Maw who has more than 10x the range, his R deals damage as much as the clone damage, except he has it every 3 seconds, his slow is more reliable + aoe + stronger, he has %hp damage and with all of that, his passive deals 500 TRUE DAMAGE. Kayn's passive gives him 40% spell healing, thats more healing per ability than shaco's whole kit can do damage. Like ????????????? > \* Q range. Its on an annoying line. Make it a bit bigger, there is a wall that you can jump over on the topside, but you cant on the botside, sometimes it bugs out and he doesnt even jump smaller walls. Its a bit tedious to use. > \* No real suitable runes for him. Dark harvest might as well be removed from the game and it doesn't really work that well on Shaco., Electrocute is okay, but it still doesn't really do that much damage. Secondary runes are meh for shaco. Thats why he goes like future's market or something like that. ---------- Edit : Thanks for the responses. But wait, there is more. Shaco bugs and bad "features". - When shaco is in stealth, placing a box reveals him the way oracle lens reveals units in the fog of war. - Duskblade doesnt reveal pink wards in bushes (overall bug) - Placing boxes from invisibility doesnt make them invisible in the beginning. Thus when he puts a box, not only is shaco's exact position shown, but also the box's location too. No real outplay potential there, boxes are 100% of the times used as zoning instead of as a tool for fights. - BIG ONE : When shaco STARTS an autoattack, he leaves stealth. Thats just bonkers. There are so many ways to misplay and start an autoattack accidentally that it happens very, very often. And when it happens, it messes your everything up. It gives time for the enemy to react. Not only that, but when you autoattack after Q, the CD is lowered by like 3-4 seconds, but thats for only 0.250 seconds after exiting stealth. If you start an autoattack accidentally, you intuitively stop it from happening, buecause thats not when you want to AA, but the stealth is over, the cd reset period is over and you are basically left with a super long cooldown on your escape when youve revealed yourself without doing any damage to the enemy. - Shaco's R Is incredibly inconsistent ontop of buggy. When you press R, you get stunned for half a second and then you get stunned for another half when you are outside of the map. This is a problem that is the same as Old Yi's Q on a higher magnitude. You know how previous Yi's Q used to not be instant but with a 0.2s delay and there were so many moments named "I WAS IN ALPHA"? Imagine how often it happens when your ability has 0.5s delay. First of all, you have to react to incoming skillshots in a pinch, thats 0.3seconds of reactiontime, then you have 0.5 seconds delay on your R, then you have 0.1 seconds when you are outside of the map but still take damage (bug) so thats a total of 0.9 seconds that you need to dodge a skillshot, but by that time, most skillshots WILL hit you, unless you predict it from quite a bit of time away. It may be used to dodged Karthus R or Caitlyn R, thats pretty easy and consistent, but many things still do damage you. Kayn exiting you, Morgana R damage, Velkoz R, all of these things and a ton more. Its basically unreliable for dodging damage. - The clone doesn't get all debuffs properly. First of all, whenever the enemy has "right clicked" you to autoattack you, and then you R, the enemy would just continue to attack the same target, AKA the real clone. Whenever you get stunned or silenced or ignited or anything like that whilst casting R in hopes of dodging it, 10/10 times the real shaco would be stunned, but the clone wouldnt be, thats a solid giveaway. All stackable debuffs that are only seen to the champion against you are visible like Kaisa passive, Vayne W, Conqueror, Darius Passive, Conqueror, Sejuani passive, ETC. Its pretty sad. - When you deal damage to an enemy under tower, the tower ALWAYS targets the real shaco. You can't even bamboozle with the clone, because you purposefully put the clone first to take aggro, then you jump in, but the tower just switches aggro from the clone to the real one. Even when you and your clone are under the tower and you attack with the clone, the tower wont attack the clone, it will attack real shaco. Thats a bug, but its a major one. - Towers prioritize boxes for no apparent reason. Instead of attacking what is closest, they finish killing what they have aggro on and their next target is always the box if its in range. Thats nice because that way the box tanks 1 tower shot (when pushing, so it doesnt kill creeps as fast) but it'd be nice if the box could atleast deal its damage, afterall the clone deals 37% damage to structures. - Here is a NICE bug. Sometimes the game thinks that the back of the monster is in the front of the model. When you backstab then or from an extreme angle that is inbetween what the game considers "back" and "front", the game would register it as a backstab, but wouldn't apply the backstab cooldown, this isnt something reproduceable with skill, but it happens rather often and its nice. But the fact that the game sometimes thinks that the "back" is the "front" is quite annoying. - Whenever the boxes are revealed by a pink ward, they dont fear. I dont know why that is. I think if they are revealed by oracles, they still fear, but when they get revealed by pink, when people trigger them they don't fear. - Its quite annoying when 50% of players think its season 2 and say "SHACO DOESNT NEED A LEASH, HE HAS W" and straight up refuse to leash. Its not a big deal but come on people.. when your jungler asks you for help, its not for nothing. Even if he didnt need help, receiving help would make him clear faster thus gank when lvl 3 and the enemy is lvl 2. Thats the biggest advantage you can get in the whole game.
Report as:
Offensive Spam Harassment Incorrect Board