General discussion of knock-ups VS Stuns

There's a general complaint out there that displacements are becoming too prevalent. Many (if not most) are used to move an opponent, and those are justified (Ignoring brittle). But in terms of knock-ups specifically, I tend to agree with the sentiment. Not because of Yasuo synergy or counter-build invalidation (though those are a factor). Displacements in general are the second strongest form of CC (below Stasis), but knock-ups are functionally identical to stuns. It seems that Riot is gradually trying to phase out stuns in favor of displacements. This has been brought up enough times now that I'm sure most are tired of hearing it. All the same, I would like to take advantage of the Nunu rework to again ask for thoughts. Just looking at Nunu's rework, he has a knock-up on W that I don't understand the justification for. Nunu rolls up a massive snowball then pushes it forwards, knocking up what ever enemies it collides with. I see three ways to evaluate this. 1. **Mechanically** - Is there an ability limitation that necessitates absolute compliance? Hooks are a primary example of this since changing the duration one way or another would distort the readability (or at worst, function). Neither W, nor anything in Nunu's kit has such a limitation. 2. **Game play** - Is there something in the kit or general play-style that could be broken by non-compliance? Yasuo's Ultimate is an example of this. Since he functions off any appropriate CC, giving him access to the more common (and often longer) stun would drastically increase his ult availability. Janna's Q is another *potential* example of this. As her entire game plan revolves primarily around peeling and general safety, it makes sense that she be able to mitigate anti-peel options. In Nunu's case, you could make an argument for setting up his ult. However, I would counter with the fact that he has 2 slows and a root out-side his W that are meant to help with exactly that. 3. **Thematically** - Is there something in the theme or general perception that justifies absolute compliance? Malphite's ultimate, Unstoppable, is the perfect example of this. The moment he presses R, it's going off and there's nothing you can do about it. Both he and the resulting CC are "unstoppable." Another example would be Vi's ultimate, as breaking the suppression-like extended animation would be incredibly immersion breaking. A third *potential* example would be Nautilus' Ult, which literally shoots a water geyser up from underneath the victim. If we look at the the mechanics of a giant snowball rolling on the ground, it's not going to lift anybody up. If we make the argument that compliance is justified by being buried, I would point out that the animation is more akin to an explosion (of ice, interestingly) than a collapse. So that doesn't work either. And the animation ends almost immediately, so Vi logic also fails. Please don't mistake this for an anti-displacement circle-jerk thread. I'm not against the mechanic in general. Stuns and Knock-ups are the only two mechanics with identical use cases (Suppression effects the caster). I just want to understand why Riot's designers choose one form of CC over another nearly identical one when they do (this goes both ways). -------------------- **Potential Discussion Points (Topic is not limited to these):** - Pros VS cons of displacement replacing Stuns. - What champions (if any) have displacements that are hard to justify? - - Can we (the community) reasonably justify retaining and/or replacing it? - What champions (if any) have stuns that could be justified as a displacement? - - Pros and cons of the change. - Current and desired role of Tenacity in regards to Stuns and Displacements. - If Stuns are not sufficiently visually clear, how can we make them so? **General disclaimer / request to posters:** If you're only going to claim that Riot hates stuns/tenacity and/or loves Yasuo, don't bother posting (unless you're a red post and this is the actual reason). I want this to be a legitimate discussion that doesn't scare away rioters. (I would even invite mods to remove any offenders.) **tl;dr:** Why are knock-ups used instead of stuns when they are (and technically vice-versa)? Used Nunu as an example. What stuns and/or knock-ups that exist in the game should be replaced and why?
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