skin schedule is honestly so fucked

xayah and rakan get skins before kled, taliyah, asol, camille, ivern...... you give lux the lunar skin when she just got this massive ultimate skin that should have disqualified her from getting one for another two years like it did for udyr meanwhile we're only finally getting an illaoi skin after over two years and you give us three mediocre options that illaoi mains didn't ask for not to mention champs like urgot, shen, heimer, rumble, J4, eve, amumu, etc. all still don't have skins in over 2000-1000 days, like [that thread](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/H1NWoHHR-there-are-now-12-champs-that-have-gone-over-1000-days-wo-a-new-skin) on the front page (not counting swain, who hasn't gotten one in 2057 days, since he's 'getting his VGU' oh jeez the horror of finally giving him his dragon master skin). 'oh we don't have ideas for them' THEN THINK HARDER, HIRE MORE ARTISTS, YOU ARE A 1.6 BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY or nah churn out a cliched white/blue chinese star guardian rehash lux skin only a year after her ultimate because it will sell in china but do absolutely nothing for a whole swathe of the champion pool 'riot's a business' well they're certainly disappointing a few customers this is just so fucked that some champs go fucking years on end with no skins while the same core dozen get them over and over at the expense of others. and champion mains are supposed to be grateful when they finally 'give' a skin to nocturne but its a 750 and he isn't likely to see one for another three years. or when yasuo and riven and their cliched dark/light skins get every stop pulled and a whole event built around them but dragon zyra still has her base VO despite the skin completely changing everything about her
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Hello! There's a lot to unpack here, but I'll do my best to address the points you've made in this thread. **Why was Lux selected for a Lunar Revel skin this year?** I pinged my product owner for a reply for this one, since he's more deeply involved in the selection discussions than I am myself, and I didn't want to misconstrue anything. *"From early on we decided to do Warwick and Nasus for year of the dog, with the idea of exploring good dog and ‘bad’ dog. As we developed the idea further with them being divine door guardians we coupled it with having a powerful godly princess they would be protecting to balance out the skin offering. Lux was the champion that fit the best for this fantasy and since her last skin was over a year ago we felt ok with adding her to the group for this year, and she is also an extremely popular champion in countries that celebrate Lunar New Year, so we also feel these players will appreciate having her be part of this celebration. Other champions that could have also made sense, that were less fitting on the role anyways, were not available due to having other skins already planned or in other cases having either gameplay or full re-works coming up. "* **What's the deal with the Illaoi skin?** We realized that Illaoi had waited quite some time for a skin, and felt that letting players vote for a thematic would be a great way to involve the community, as opposed to just popping a new skin on PBE. We submitted three concepts that were vastly different from each other to give everyone a variety to choose from. Granted, not everyone's favorite would be selected, and as such, not everyone would be super happy about the result, but imo, having a voice in voting is better than having us say, 'here's an Illaoi skin, kthxbai.' This project also enables us to really show what goes into creating a skin, which may shed some light on why we make choices, why things do and don't work, etc. **Okay, but there are a bunch of champions who are in desperate need of skins.** You're absolutely right. Some champions that you've named had pending reworks in 2017, such as Eve and Urgot, which made them ineligible for new skins. Swain's currently sitting on that waitlist right now. We tried to tackle some of the champion who needed love last year - Viktor, Cassiopeia, Yorick, to name a few. We have a ton planned for 2018, and I can assure you we've considered champions who haven't seen a new skin in a while. **Xayah and Rakan skins, though?** We felt that this was a no brainer for this year's Valentine's Day skins. They're *love birds*. They're an adorable couple in Runeterra, it seemed like a really good fit! This pairing of skins - Sweetheart - was one of the most suggested thematics from players for these two when they first released. **Riot's a business.** Yep, we are, but we truly do strive to be the most player focused games company in the world. I understand that we aren't perfect and that we do fall short at times - who doesn't? I'd highly encourage you (and everyone!) to continuously give us constructive feedback - both positive and negative - tell us why something does or doesn't suck, seriously. It's honestly the best way for us to know what we should keep doing and what we should do better. You aren't going to hurt our feelings, so please, be honest like you have been in this thread.
Necrozard (EUW)
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That's really well explained and detailled ! But i just feel that **Aurelion Sol** player are angry because they were given false hopes. Because of that dragon on the door in the trailer Exactly like **Shen** players who expected a skin Because of that floating sword in the trailer To add salt to the injury They feel like a **"popular champion with plenty of skins"** stole the skin of their **"beloved champion that desperately need a skin"** _ The problem is exactly like Dragon Master Swain_ > Creating hype for something that will be removed from the players i really hope you can read this and understand the pain of some players They feel pain because they love and care about those champions that League have to offer
Our intent with this, or any promo, is never to bait someone into thinking something exists that doesn't. For the Lunar Revel promo piece, the gate center piece was a dog, and the creatures to the left and right were Nasus and Warwick, respectively. The rainbow light in the middle was meant to symbolize Lux's laser. The style may not have made that super clear, or perhaps some were searching for something that wasn't there? That's hard to say, but we weren't purposefully trying to blur the lines between several champions and have everyone play a guessing game and hope for the best, if that makes sense. I think the teaser for Eternal Sword Yi was a feelsbadman moment for us all around in 2017. ;-; We...learned a lot from that one, to be totally honest with you, and it's sparked several conversations around what makes for a fun//clear/solid promo piece. I (we) understand where you're coming from, and even the meanest, angriest comments are read with passion in mind. Some have more experience wording things than others, and even someone like myself, who is used to giving feedback, can lose myself in the moment when I'm super excited/angry/upset about something. It's human nature, but we default to the idea that feedback is coming from the heart and from someone who cares a heck of a lot about a champion.
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The misleading bit in this promo wasn't just the dragonesque door visuals tbh. The wording at the end with the ----- pause after _I_ kinda screams Sol. "The realm is safe as long as we stand. The immovable titan, the vicious beast, and I—the light of the new year." Reading it in my head with Sol's voice it works well, but with Lux's voice it's not as _tight_ if that makes sense? Anyways, I look forward to whatever skin Sol will actually get.
That's good feedback, tbh. Lux is the lady of luminosity, which is why light was used in that sentence, as well as a rainbow, laser-like crack in the door.
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I mean you probably do this already sometimes, but you should really blind test fellow Rioters and ask them what champion is being teased in each promo piece for everything, including new champs. I understand that with 139 champs on the game and skins on top of that, some themes are bound to overlay when working on stuff. Howver the Rakan and Xayah art, the eternal sword yi art as you said, and now this promo... even if your intentions were on the right place (which i am positive they are), the final product read wrong https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-liBgNoR5Q7E/WlNpw06L9yI/AAAAAAAA2V4/DPDrGWBySXMbHAjkjLxb1GX_pa03eZXEACLcBGAs/s200/3.png I'm sorry but the center piece reads as a dragon face, not dogs. I can tell the figures on the sides are nasus and WW, but without context they would easilly read as dragons as well. Keep in mind in the western hemisphere not everyne will have the cultural context to know what the lunar year is or what animal is being represented.
This is great feedback to have. There's definitely a truth in this - we work on content, on a team that is heads down on it for a month+, and since we're used to seeing it, we understand the vision etc., it may be wicked obvious to us what we're meaning to convey, but it might fall short to someone who doesn't have as much context.
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Glad I could be of use! The cost for my consulting advice is one Riot Games job, please :p
{{sticker:sg-zephyr}}
xelaker (NA)
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> [{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=pcX0wKmd,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2018-01-09T19:41:43.677+0000) > > You aren't going to hurt our feelings, so please, be honest like you have been in this thread. The way you spell chaos with a K is silly and I don't much care for it.
8.2 Patch Notes * A bug where KateyKhaos' name was spelled incorrectly has been resolved. It should now read Katey Chaos.
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lol im taiwanese and do celebrate chinese new year wow this year is dog year, but srsly u need to release more illaio skin since she have only ONE atm
The most recent update on the aforementioned Battlecast Illaoi skin can be found [here](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/01/battlecast-illaoi-modeling-and-texturing/).
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> [{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=pcX0wKmd,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2018-01-09T19:41:43.677+0000) > > Hello! > > There's a lot to unpack here, but I'll do my best to address the points you've made in this thread. > > **Why was Lux selected for a Lunar Revel skin this year?** > > I pinged my product owner for a reply for this one, since he's more deeply involved in the selection discussions than I am myself, and I didn't want to misconstrue anything. > > *"From early on we decided to do Warwick and Nasus for year of the dog, with the idea of exploring good dog and ‘bad’ dog. As we developed the idea further with them being divine door guardians we coupled it with having a powerful godly princess they would be protecting to balance out the skin offering. Lux was the champion that fit the best for this fantasy and since her last skin was over a year ago we felt ok with adding her to the group for this year, and she is also an extremely popular champion in countries that celebrate Lunar New Year, so we also feel these players will appreciate having her be part of this celebration. Other champions that could have also made sense, that were less fitting on the role anyways, were not available due to having other skins already planned or in other cases having either gameplay or full re-works coming up. "* > > **What's the deal with the Illaoi skin?** > > We realized that Illaoi had waited quite some time for a skin, and felt that letting players vote for a thematic would be a great way to involve the community, as opposed to just popping a new skin on PBE. We submitted three concepts that were vastly different from each other to give everyone a variety to choose from. Granted, not everyone's favorite would be selected, and as such, not everyone would be super happy about the result, but imo, having a voice in voting is better than having us say, 'here's an Illaoi skin, kthxbai.' This project also enables us to really show what goes into creating a skin, which may shed some light on why we make choices, why things do and don't work, etc. > > **Okay, but there are a bunch of champions who are in desperate need of skins.** > > You're absolutely right. Some champions that you've named had pending reworks in 2017, such as Eve and Urgot, which made them ineligible for new skins. Swain's currently sitting on that waitlist right now. We tried to tackle some of the champion who needed love last year - Viktor, Cassiopeia, Yorick, to name a few. We have a ton planned for 2018, and I can assure you we've considered champions who haven't seen a new skin in a while. > > **Xayah and Rakan skins, though?** > > We felt that this was a no brainer for this year's Valentine's Day skins. They're *love birds*. They're an adorable couple in Runeterra, it seemed like a really good fit! This pairing of skins - Sweetheart - was one of the most suggested thematics from players for these two when they first released. > > **Riot's a business.** > > Yep, we are, but we truly do strive to be the most player focused games company in the world. I understand that we aren't perfect and that we do fall short at times - who doesn't? > > I'd highly encourage you (and everyone!) to continuously give us constructive feedback - both positive and negative - tell us why something does or doesn't suck, seriously. It's honestly the best way for us to know what we should keep doing and what we should do better. > > You aren't going to hurt our feelings, so please, be honest like you have been in this thread. I find it amusing how she didn't reply on the fact that Riot Games is a billion dollar company and can hire more people to handle the skin schedules better.
I didn't, but that isn't my place to speak. I don't hire, or honestly have the SME to make a call on how many people are needed/how that affects x factors. That said, [this Ask Riot post](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/12/ask-riot-movie-honor-opponents-urf/) gives a better explanation than I could as to why we don't just throw more people onto a team.
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Katey, would there be any chance that Ahri/Lux/Teemo/Ez/Annie/Yi etc gets one of these community votes skins or is the plan to keep it to champs who don't get many? Also, I totally agree with the pairing of Xayah and Rakan skins.
I wouldn't rule it out, no. We're definitely going to reflect on what went well/not so great with the Illaoi dev blog because we would like to do voting like this again.
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Quick feedback on the original voting: I kind of wish they had been more concept-art-like and less finished-quality pictures, or maybe just that there had been more concept art *in additional* to the 3 pictures. The main reason is, there's a lot of parts of the skin (ie, the overlay) that I didn't think about when I originally voted. I think part of that is using my imagination less since it looks more like a finished product.
This is great feedback to have! We want to find a healthy medium of what to share to help players make the best of their vote. :)
patmax17 (EUW)
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Hi again Katey ^^ FWIW, I'd have LOVED (and I can't stress that enough!) to be involved more in the concepting part of the skin's design. Excuse me if I make it very simple, I know you're able to extrapolate the important information here, but in my head the ideal process would have been like this: - vote on the "high concept" of the next skin: "futuristic/mechanic skin" (battlecast/project/dreadnova, as long as there's metal and technological stuff), "adventurer/explorer skin" (tapping into mesoamerican aesthetics, and/or indiana jones/lara croft vibes), "possessed astronaut" (with her tentacles belonging to some sort of alien symbiote wich she struggles with) - then a bunch of votes on concepts: show us 3-4 different versions of the direction you could take the skin to, even if it's just Illaoi's model. Let us choose what direction we prefer, explain to us the reasoning behind each version, what you think are the strongest points of each one and which are the things you are unsure about. I refer especially to the Illaoi champion insights article, which featured awesome concept art with a huge number of different explorations on how the kraken priestess could end up looking (the Ekko concept art dump was similar). I just love to see how different designers pull off different character designs from the same bits of input information, and that's the part that I find most fascinating of skin and champion creation, and would have liked to be more involved into ^^ (ps: AFAICT the boob window was a big debate point of BC Illaoi. I was against the initial concept and am fine with the current version, can we have a bit of insight on Riot's stance here? Some say the boob window was a big reason why BC won in the first voting...?)
So, you're saying more into a blind pick, and basing voting off a name with some bullet points around what the inspiration would be? RE: the 'boob window', it was talked about a bit in one of the articles - *There was lots of debate over Illaoi's outfit. In the end, we looked for a solution that balanced the concept that players voted on and what might make more sense for Illaoi as a character.*
patmax17 (EUW)
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> [{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=pcX0wKmd,comment-id=0019001a00010001000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-18T17:52:29.956+0000) > > So, you're saying more into a blind pick, and basing voting off a name with some bullet points around what the inspiration would be? My focus was actually on "more explorative concept art based on the same concept", since that's what I personally enjoy the most. But if the whole project is meant to involve the players into the decision making, I think the most obvious previous step is what you describe, yes ^^ > RE: the 'boob window', it was talked about a bit in one of the articles - *There was lots of debate over Illaoi's outfit. In the end, we looked for a solution that balanced the concept that players voted on and what might make more sense for Illaoi as a character.* Oh, thanks for pointing that out, I somehow totally missed that part :D
Ahh okay, that makes sense. For this, the main focus is more to share the development cycle from start to finish, but letting you guys kick things off with the overall direction you'd like to see the thematic move in. Don't get me wrong, we have been reading and discussing internally when we see replies to our blog posts, but that's why you aren't seeing direct PBE boards threads asking up front for feedback.
Ifneth (NA)
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> [{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=pcX0wKmd,comment-id=0019001a00010001000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-18T17:52:29.956+0000) > > So, you're saying more into a blind pick, and basing voting off a name with some bullet points around what the inspiration would be? > > RE: the 'boob window', it was talked about a bit in one of the articles - *There was lots of debate over Illaoi's outfit. In the end, we looked for a solution that balanced the concept that players voted on and what might make more sense for Illaoi as a character.* The problem some parts of the community have with the “boob window” comes not so much from its own merits as how it revives their longstanding frustration with female champion visuals. I looked for the article you said addressed these frustrations but could not find it. Would you link it or be so kind as to address them in this thread, please?
The piece in italics is what I was referring to.
Ifneth (NA)
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> [{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=pcX0wKmd,comment-id=0019001a0001000100000000000000030000,timestamp=2018-01-24T17:48:08.695+0000) > > The piece in italics is what I was referring to. Thanks. Now the natural question: _why_ does Illaoi have a boob window and a half-bare midriff instead of her usual armor plate?
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As the concept artist on her, I'll jump in here. So to be completely honest, I look at the initial iteration of a LITERAL "rectangle cut from an otherwise complete shirt with the intention to show off cleavage" was a mistake on my part. While it's a very prominent design choice made in lots of character costuming in our game and others, it undermined what I was really trying to get at: that in this world Illaoi is a survivor-turned-resistance fighter squaring off against monstrosities of epic proportions. Thinking about what my intent was for that detail on her costuming, it's clear I was channeling every female survivor protagonist from blockbuster films, hit tv shows and classic games (that I can't name due to legal reasons). All of them have very similar elements in their design and something as simple as a tank top signals that feeling of surviving, having full range of movement, etc. Where the design is currently isn't a "look she has boobs!" detail, it's an intentional design choice that's been refined and discussed both here on the boards with you guys as well as between us internally. The other side of this rather touchy subject, especially in today's social climate, is that bigger women might feel it's offensive to HAVE TO cover up a character like Illaoi. I have a friend back home where I'm from who was super excited to see that there was a "big girl" body type being treated equally for once in her costuming. Look at other games and movies where there is a big, or muscular woman as a featured character... they're always seemingly covered up. What I took from that conversation is that while the intent to shield a female's characterization is super admirable, making assumptions that she should arbitrarily be covered completely is at best close minded. Ultimately this is one of the zillions of reasons we wanted to include you guys in the process. If we created this skin behind closed doors, I'm confident we would've eventually came to a similar conclusion. That being said, the ability to field a simple 2D sketch to our players before even entering production and building her has been both a huge eye opener and an awesome challenge that I feel we've met head on. Keep sending us your feels throughout the process, positive and negative. For our entire team, this has been one of the most engaging projects we've ever worked on due to the enthusiasm, feedback loop, and general hype you guys have sent our way. Fistbump!
Quepha (NA)
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But big cleavage actually does make more sense for Illaoi as a character. She's forward, brash, and open about her sex life. It was clearly more about balancing sex appeal vs. moral standards. Arguments about Illaoi's character were very weak and ill-informed.
Yes, and that's part of the discussion we had around her outfit; she's a sexy character, but for some, maybe not in the conventional sense.
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Cool. I hope voting comes back again. Especially because there's probably a couple of ways you can do it. For instance you might have a theme picked out and then let people pick their favorite take on that theme.
That's actually a really cool idea!
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First off, thanks for responding. I post about skins a lot and I've only ever gotten one other response on the issue, and none on [the thread](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/iWfxVQHj-i-dont-hate-yasuo-and-riven-players-for-getting-nice-skins) where I was exremely diplomatic. This is a fairly abrasive thread, so again thanks for responding. > Why was Lux selected for a Lunar Revel skin this year? > > I pinged my product owner for a reply for this one, since he's more deeply involved in the selection discussions than I am myself, and I didn't want to misconstrue anything. > > "From early on we decided to do Warwick and Nasus for year of the dog, with the idea of exploring good dog and ‘bad’ dog. As we developed the idea further with them being divine door guardians we coupled it with having a powerful godly princess they would be protecting to balance out the skin offering. Lux was the champion that fit the best for this fantasy and since her last skin was over a year ago we felt ok with adding her to the group for this year, and she is also an extremely popular champion in countries that celebrate Lunar New Year, so we also feel these players will appreciate having her be part of this celebration. Other champions that could have also made sense, that were less fitting on the role anyways, were not available due to having other skins already planned or in other cases having either gameplay or full re-works coming up. " This is a fine response, but it doesn't actually answer my concerns. 'Oh, we chose Lux because we needed a female arbiter-like champion.' Okay.....that doesn't explain why Lux specifically though. With no other context, such as if other female champs who have gone a while without skins, like Taliyah and Camille, were getting theirs as we speak, I can't be at peace with this decision. It just feels like a cash grab for China. Both Taliyah and Camille would have worked wonderfully with this theme and had really cool effects - imagine Taliyah riding a spiraling gold/white/blue wall with the Lunar accents. Again, because you are withholding information from us about skins that may or may not be in production, you're doubling the frustration that not only is Lux getting a skin a year after her ultimate, but also in place of other characters that require a skin more. It's worded a little differently in your product owner's response, but he's essentially saying you're making this skin because it's going to sell well in China - which isn't a terrible thing, but still a little shady that y'all aren't willing to own up to it and let us know that yes, Taliyah and Camille are getting skins soon as well, and good ones at that. > What's the deal with the Illaoi skin? > > We realized that Illaoi had waited quite some time for a skin, and felt that letting players vote for a thematic would be a great way to involve the community, as opposed to just popping a new skin on PBE. We submitted three concepts that were vastly different from each other to give everyone a variety to choose from. Granted, not everyone's favorite would be selected, and as such, not everyone would be super happy about the result, but imo, having a voice in voting is better than having us say, 'here's an Illaoi skin, kthxbai.' This project also enables us to really show what goes into creating a skin, which may shed some light on why we make choices, why things do and don't work, etc. Of the three, I voted for Battlecast, and so I will probably purchase the skin when it comes out as Illaoi is one of my main champions. I think the idea of the vote is an okay one, but I really feel that the three choices y'all presented us were a little underwhelming. Over the last few years, we've had an insane amount of extremely cool Illaoi concepts - they're practically biweekly in Concepts and Creations. She's an extremely unique champ with a lot of moving parts, like Zyra or Heimerdinger, and so it makes sense for her skins to be a big effort y'all can't do as often as, say, a visually simple champ like Warwick. Still though, the Indiana Jones and Deep Space ones seemed a little underwhelming, and the Battlecast one I'm afraid will turn out visually loud and off putting like her Void skin. I'm sorry if the way I worded my phrase seemed ungrateful, because I'm going to look forward to an Illaoi skin of any shape, but it feels wrong to give us three skin concepts no one asked for and force us to choose amongst them when there were so many much better designs on the table, such as Elderwood or Gatekeeper or even Wacky Inflatable Tube Man. I like you alll showing us your process, but I feel like these designs weren't the best you could have given us. > Okay, but there are a bunch of champions who are in desperate need of skins. > > You're absolutely right. Some champions that you've named had pending reworks in 2017, such as Eve and Urgot, which made them ineligible for new skins. Swain's currently sitting on that waitlist right now. We tried to tackle some of the champion who needed love last year - Viktor, Cassiopeia, Yorick, to name a few. We have a ton planned for 2018, and I can assure you we've considered champions who haven't seen a new skin in a while. Again, I feel you're dodging the issue. Sure, Eve and Urgot got their VGU's recently. So has Swain. But all three of those champs have gone literal years without a skin. It seems backwards for you to punish those players and not give them a skin for all those years because they were slated for a VGU, and then also after because they 'just' got one. I realize that there's a V in VGU that involves updating old skins, but that doesn't exactly make up for lack of new content or intentionally ignoring a champ for years even though their VGU is a long time off. You also didn't even touch on the other issue - non VGU champs not getting skins. Sure, Cass, Viktor, and Yorick got one skin apiece, but lots of people who play those champions don't like those skins, complained about them, and some problems were never even addressed (most embarassingly with Yorick). And you have to admit that the whole Janna skin thing was a total bait. You can't post a picture of a floating spirit sword and not expect people to think it's a Shen skin. That's like posting a picture of Nasus' halberd thingy and then saying 'whoops, lol, it's a Vel'Koz skin, you guys are so silly'. You also can't post a video with a huge dragon head on the door and not expect people to be pissed when its a Lux skin. I've said this over and over again, but it's just not okay for y'all to be a multibillion dollar company and have a skin system this disjointed, infrequent, and biased. You can't keep making empty promises about 'considering' champs or that they're 'on the table' but then give us two Master Yi skins in a row. > Xayah and Rakan skins, though? > > We felt that this was a no brainer for this year's Valentine's Day skins. They're love birds. They're an adorable couple in Runeterra, it seemed like a really good fit! This pairing of skins - Sweetheart - was one of the most suggested thematics from players for these two when they first released. If you go around saying 'well, they just fit the theme so well' for only popular champs and continue to leave the same unpopular ones without skins, then you need to hire more conceptual artists. That's a fact. People have suggested PROJECT Shen since the theme started, but you gave it to Jhin, and if that isn't favoritism, I don't know what is. People wanted Star Guardian Taliyah, but you gave it to Ahri. People have been begging for Dragon Tamer Swain (and at one point didn't y'all promise it, years ago?), and yet here we are at his VGU and it looks like its going to be several more years after that. > Riot's a business. > > Yep, we are, but we truly do strive to be the most player focused games company in the world. I understand that we aren't perfect and that we do fall short at times - who doesn't? You said you welcome constructive feedback - here it is. You all aren't doing a good job of being player focused. You've ignored complaints on a variety of fronts for the last two seasons and we're going into our third with a plethora of major problems still on the board. Dev Corner is great, you guys responding to threads like these is great, but it's not enough. I know people make fun of the boards on reddit and meme about how toxic this place is, but there are very real concerns here that have gone ignored for months and years now. Riot is doing a poor job of taking criticism and has been for a long time now. Hopefully you can respond, sorry for my lateness.
Happy to reply when I have some form of context, even if it means being the messenger. We purposefully don't say what is or isn't in development at any given time because things shuffle, change and are sometimes shelved entirely. While yes, it'd be really cool to know something like, 'Hey, Shen is getting [skin line]', it'd feel super shitty if for whatever reason the skin was pushed out several months or more, or canned entirely. Some concepts simply don't work out like we'd planned. 'Cyber Katarina' was a concept that went out to players wayyy long ago (oops!) and it wasn't actually released until *years* later as PROJECT: Katarina. The skin that was officially released was super different from where the original concept landed. I can't imagine it feeling great to see/hear about that skin, getting super hyped, and then nothing happens with it. Even if we announced that it was shelved, or what have you, there'd be some pretty upset people - case in point, Sewn Chaos skins. (That's a super rare case, but I think can illustrate pretty well what it feels like to know something should be coming, and then it doesn't.) I didn't take your Illaoi comment as ungrateful, so all good there. This is the first time we've really done a follow along dev blog, so any feedback is welcome. I agree that there are some great Illaoi ideas out there, and I hope we make some of them come to life - Elderwood pls. Something more comical, like the inflatable arm concept, wasn't selected because we felt like a joke skin for her first skin after launch, and after a long wait, wasn't the best choice. *If you feel otherwise, happy to hear why!* I caught up with our concept artist for the Illaoi concepts to get a blurb about why we went with the three concepts we did, hopefully this helps? *"The behind the scenes is I spent a week doing a concept a day, then got together with concept and the team in separate review meetings and we chose which worked the best for the character and would add to her catalog (or lack of one).* *The REASONS were basically that the two skins she had were very organic and fantasy, even her Void skin. We chose the two scifi skins as they would surely add a new approach to her, and also hopefully catch the attention of people who don't play her. Like if I'm a Darius main, I might see Battlecast Illaoi across the lane and think "huh, maybe I should give her a go, she looks cool." We also wanted to counterweight the choices with something a little closer to her (Safari/Explorer) to give an option that isn't so jarring, as we had no idea how Illaoi mains would react to a new skin. Also, we loved the charm that Safari brought to the table, and the VFX ideas were suuuuuper exciting. Actually, for all of these the VFX were all super exciting and when we thought about what each one would do it was really easy to pull ideas on all three of the chosen skins, so we knew we had some hooks on each one. *" I'm likely going to sound dodgy again with this reply, so I apologize if I come off as such. To preface, I don't know all of the ins and outs when it comes to discussions around who is and isn't eligible for a skin aside from Champ Up pinging us and saying, 'hey guys, we've got a VGU slated for x in x patch (*this could be pretty far out*', and we say, 'okay', and make note of it and pause anything (if there's something in dev for them), or work around them for the time being, until their VGU is pushed to live. Our concern with releasing a skin and then VGUing it 6-8 months later is, you probably bought the skin for x reason. It could be the VFX on a Q, or the SFX on an E. If that aspect isn't preserved, you might feel pretty pissed off - understandably so. *Adding in this resource, too,* To give you as much visibility as I'm personally able to, [here are the three champions](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202294884-Champion-Update-Schedule) that are slated for a VGU next, so they're not brought up in new skin discussions at the moment. Occasionally - like with Fiora's update - we were able to work in tandem with the team, albeit a challenge, and pushed out her VGU and then PROJECT: Fiora the following patch. I'll be honest, I can see where the sword teaser fell short, we have more than one champion with swords in the game, and unless there's another indicator on who the champion is, it's pretty up in the air. For Lunar Revel, we tried to stylize the dog, but keep the ears as a main indicator visually. It was also year of the dog, so we felt players would catch onto that aspect up front. I'm far from a product managers, who is the person who works on deciding who gets what, when and how, so I won't try to tackle the specifics and be wrong all over the place. I can give you [this dev blog](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/05/dev-state-of-skins/) where we discuss how we make our selections, and some of the why. It's written by one of our product managers. Another resource for you may be Ghostcrawler's reply to **[Riot talks a lot about prioritization and resources when answering questions about features people want — if there aren’t enough people there to fix things like Death Recap or the old, out of date website, why not hire more? Are you really that limited on people?](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/12/ask-riot-movie-honor-opponents-urf/)**. It basically explains why throwing more people on a project isn't always the right choice, so in this case, getting more concept artists. Side note, really hoping we're able to do a cool idea like Dragon Tamer Swain after his rework. Again, I do appreciate your honesty. These are tough issues to tackle. Posts like these, for me, and I'm sure I speak for other Rioters, too, are a great place for us to better understand where you're coming from. Being able to have a discussion versus a screaming match - trust me, we can be just as riled up (read: passionate) goes a long way, so thank you. *Sorry for my late reply, I've been sick. @_@*
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"2 VGUs". Aatrox is planned for having only a GU. Or not?
Sorry, I misspoke. He's a gameplay update, looking at the Champ Up page.
patmax17 (EUW)
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I'm not sure if it's clear enough, but I fear some people think a champion in line for a gameplay update is still eligible for new skins, which, AFAIK, is NOT the case (since changes in the kit means changes in all skin's FX and maybe animations - see Xin Zhao, or Skarner). You might want to stress this specifically ^^
99% of the time they aren't eligible.
patmax17 (EUW)
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Yup, I suggest you remember to point it out when talking about gameplay updates since I think there's a bit of confusion around them ^^
> I'm likely going to sound dodgy again with this reply, so I apologize if I come off as such. To preface, I don't know all of the ins and outs when it comes to discussions around who is and isn't eligible for a skin aside from Champ Up pinging us and saying, 'hey guys, we've got a VGU slated for x in x patch (*this could be pretty far out*', and we say, 'okay', and make note of it and pause anything (if there's something in dev for them), or work around them for the time being, until their VGU is pushed to live. Our concern with releasing a skin and then VGUing it 6-8 months later is, you probably bought the skin for x reason. It could be the VFX on a Q, or the SFX on an E. If that aspect isn't preserved, you might feel pretty pissed off - understandably so. > I'm far from a product managers, who is the person who works on deciding who gets what, when and how, so I won't try to tackle the specifics and be wrong all over the place. I can give you [this dev blog](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/05/dev-state-of-skins/) where we discuss how we make our selections, and some of the why. It's written by one of our product managers. Another resource for you may be Ghostcrawler's reply to **[Riot talks a lot about prioritization and resources when answering questions about features people want — if there aren’t enough people there to fix things like Death Recap or the old, out of date website, why not hire more? Are you really that limited on people?](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/12/ask-riot-movie-honor-opponents-urf/)**. It basically explains why throwing more people on a project isn't always the right choice, so in this case, getting more concept artists. Can I say these sections from your post really helped with my perception of the skins team? I love the skins team at riot, but there is a massive trend of them feeling disconnected from the community, and as a result YOU SPECIFICALLY As the Questions Answers Analyst (Is that what a QA Is?) get ALL the flack from the community, and I personally don't feel that fair on YOU. I dunno, it just really pushes Rioters are people, instead of the people who get assaulted on Twitter when someone wants to express "MAH CHAMP DIDN'T GET A SKIN"
That's good to hear. ^^ Looking through this thread, I definitely see a disconnect in some areas, places we can me more transparent. For me personally with my team, I've been working to encourage more devs to be more involved in PBE discussions, so they see more feedback firsthand, and can reply firsthand with their craft expertise. Silver Unicorn, [@YBourykina on Twitter](https://twitter.com/YBourykina) tanked a lot of questions and feedback for Xayah and Rakan this patch. She was able to explain things - often better than I could - and imo, feels a bit better coming from the source, and not always from a messenger QA. ;-; QA is quality assurance, but answering questions is part of it, I suppose, haha. We wear a lot of hats, but we focus on a few main points. We call out issues (functionality, aesthetics) that we may foresee being an issue in dev - Thresh's pauldrons, for example, clip a ton, and it's something we can call out to minimize in a concepted design. We're also responsible for reading and replying to player feedback once content hits PBE, as well as compiling said feedback for the dev team to have a discussion. So, I'll have a document that gives positive/negative feedback about a skin, we have a round up and discuss what we want to change/why. We also handle bug management, making sure logged issues get prioritized and fixed (some trivial issues - like clipping of a piece of armor when totally zoomed in - may be closed as won't fix, and we'd allocate more dev time to something more pressing like, stretching on a model during an animation at game height.) There are a bunch of smaller tasks, too, but those are the big ones. I can assure you that we're people, and not some robot on the other side of the screen. :P As I'd mentioned, we do default that a lot of the up front 'anger', for lack of a better word, stems for passion about something. You might come off as pissed off because Cass hadn't seen a skin, but Nami got one, but you're probably a hardcore Cass main and are championing for a new skin because you care about Cass as a champion and want to see a new skin for her.
Arkadije95 (EUNE)
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Ok, a Rioter is here so I wanna post a question that will probably never be answered. Will Aatrox ever and I mean ever get a good skin. Yea, yea I know he is gonna get a full rework for his skills sometime between 2018 and 2025, if we are lucky, but are there any plans to give him a good skin like Blood Moon Aatrox or something like that? A skin line that is actually good and popular.
A good skin is super subjective, but if you mean something that's a higher caliber - new sounds, effects, all that - then yes. We don't have anything planned out yet because he's in the update queue.
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