Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 24
**Fix Zac's R AND either revert W base damage or Q cooldown**.
Meddler (NA)
: Wukong Prototype on PBE: Additional changes
You sure like to ruin the fun for everyone with your stressful-to-play-against champions, Riot. As if having a targeted dash and invisibility wasn't enough. Remove the wall skipping and wait until this comes live first, please.
Hatiru (EUW)
: If you're the seller and you come with "it says right there" youre not professional. You have no idea who the person is, if you can't properly tell them then don't.
Happens, just get over it. Maybe he didn't mean to be rude, I know because I would say it in the same manner to indicate that I didn't miss this info! else it will make him look bad. Yes he could have just quoted himself...
Ałice (EUNE)
: Hey Meddler, Are you aware of Zac's bugs? https://www.reddit.com/r/thesecretweapon/comments/bpbrop/issues_with_reverted_zac_ult_on_pbe/ Unreported bug: Zac's Ultimate no longer removes slows.
I'd like to add that the Q's 2 seconds CD nerf was really critical, I played ~27 games, the amount of kills missed and deaths caused by not having Q one second earlier is too much, you went too far on an ability that already has an extremely long cooldown and maxed last.
Meddler (NA)
: Wukong Prototype on PBE: Additional changes
Hey Meddler, Are you aware of Zac's bugs? https://www.reddit.com/r/thesecretweapon/comments/bpbrop/issues_with_reverted_zac_ult_on_pbe/ Unreported bug: Zac's Ultimate no longer removes slows.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
Any update? Thoughts? W+R tooltip fix?
: Revert W, at least to a mid point of old W. Reintroduce cc break (or was it slow break?) of ult and the 400 unit knockback. Maybe get rid of new q if a trade off is necessary since it's a stupid skill that forced Zac to be nerfed anyway. The fact that you're static while on q is totally against Zac's play style of moving around doing damage while simultaneously gathering blobs, literally who came up with that.
NO. The knockback does the opposite of Q; It's bad synergy, and will mostly save the enemy. Pretty sure** they changed it to knockup on purpose.**(Read the description) Also, it does what old Q was good for: AoE slowing the target to have time for picking up blobs while chasing. What this ultimate truly lacks is the slow removal, VERY important, like, this is non-negotiable.
Ałice (EUNE)
: https://youtu.be/eaX-Uq5OGOc At 7:38 You can see that the original old ultimate REMOVES SLOWS, bring it back!!! This exactly is the suggestion I came up with on my own! Shows how important it is!!!!
For clarity, it used to be immune to CCs, but then changed to slows only. Immunity to slows is what it **really lacks**, please. **That's the one change that can't be overlooked.**
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
https://youtu.be/eaX-Uq5OGOc At 7:38 You can see that the original old ultimate REMOVES SLOWS, bring it back!!! This exactly is the suggestion I came up with on my own! Shows how important it is!!!!
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
I really wish that you make the ultimate immune to slows. It was previously immune to CC, but I'm not asking for that, just the slows please.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
**KEEP THE KNOCKUP**. Knockback will just save the enemy most of the times, and it is harder to hit all 4 bounces with it. Knockup synergies well with Q and has the most important old Q feature... it slows the enemy and give Zac enough time to pick up the blobs.
Meddler (NA)
: No changes in thinking since the post earlier this week here on the Dev Corner.
Zac's reverted ultimate has some issues with the knockback and interaction with Zhonya. Many of us wonder: Are they implemented this way on purpose?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 17
Still waiting for an update on Zac's revert. Are you ok with current changes? or have more plans?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 17
Thoughts on Zac changes? Haven't heard anything since Maxw3ll's post. {{champion:154}}
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
REMINDER: PBE server is not good place for testing tanks and enchanters(team-reliant). From my long experience(S9) in building 1 AP item as tank, I'm expecting to have MORE troubles as a tank with reverted ult.
Ałice (EUNE)
: **Overall thoughts(15 games played, first day)** I had by far greater success as AP bruiser than full tank. Going full tank felt completely useless, and because of that, I've once again lost interest in the game, since Zac is the only champ I play, anyway. **What do I suggest?** Q: Revert cooldown nerf, 13 secs was long enough already, considering casting Q2 is needed in order for cooldown to start. W: Revert base damage nerf(+25), but reduce AP ratio to 1% or remove it. E: Knockup duration was 1 second before the rework, now revert it to synergies with old R by giving Zac time to choose where to bounce the enemy. The R revert is a nerf for Zac's default build(tank), because it's no longer immune to CC; while bouncing, Zac is vulnerable to damage and it's harder to dive towers now. The suggested above are meant for compensation to be at least as good as he is now in live servers(as a tank). Any new ideas that serve the same purpose are appreciated.
E did also lose 20 of its base damage, so a total of 45 lost base damage. But since Zac does have slightly better CC now, I don't mind E damage nerf, only E damage nerf. W base and duration must remain. Remember that Q was AoE and is no longer spammable. I'm done now. May God be with you. {{champion:154}}
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
**Overall thoughts(15 games played, first day)** I had by far greater success as AP bruiser than full tank. Going full tank felt completely useless, and because of that, I've once again lost interest in the game, since Zac is the only champ I play, anyway. **What do I suggest?** Q: Revert cooldown nerf, 13 secs was long enough already, considering casting Q2 is needed in order for cooldown to start. W: Revert base damage nerf(+25), but reduce AP ratio to 1% or remove it. E: Knockup duration was 1 second before the rework, now revert it to synergies with old R by giving Zac time to choose where to bounce the enemy. The R revert is a nerf for Zac's default build(tank), because it's no longer immune to CC; while bouncing, Zac is vulnerable to damage and it's harder to dive towers now. The suggested above are meant for compensation to be at least as good as he is now in live servers(as a tank). Any new ideas that serve the same purpose are appreciated.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
**Q and R interaction:** It is possible to use Q before R, but without being able to connect Q2 while bouncing. Q will wear off slightly before the fourth bounce. Can you consider adding something to it?
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
So, where do you get your data from? From a server where people easily ragequit or based on player satisfaction? Personally, I haven't had a good game yet to give a feedback, but I'd love to discuss or see how others are doing.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
Played it on PBE. My first R was on an attempt to knock the enemy to ally tower, **the result is I got CC'd while bouncing and died. ** Q's CC duration wasn't long enough for me to get in front of them(two) to send them backwards.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
@Maxw3ll Are you the only one working for balancing Zac? I feel like you're too scared or not interested in making big/innovative changes. Please take this seriously, we finally received your attention, let's finish balancing this champion once and for all. Of course, not in one patch! Make all of Zac's abilities synergies with each other and his blobs, as some of us have suggested.
Ałice (EUNE)
: ***
I repeat, the key for "clear gameplay" is having Zac's useless old Q back, OR come up with something similar to its slow debuff. Because slowing the enemy allows Zac to pick up blobs and sustain. The ability to sustain is what makes him a tank.
: Would you consider moving his current Q to his W and returning his old Q? With numbers tuning of course. Unstable Matter is a good clearing tool but gameplay wise it's pretty meh, while I really loved his old Q. It would be a good gameplay choice too - do I slow one enemy with Q so I can get in range to pull them both together with W, or do I try to pull them both together first so I can hit them both with my Q?
This sounds VERY fun. Punch Smack Smash and Squash! Riotgames, give this a try. Damage wise isn't better than W, but definitely has "clear gameplay" and so much fun!
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
The reverted R, R's CC immunity removal, and Q's CD are all nerfs for Zac's tank build "default". I hope you do realize that. > Zac - We’re currently testing a mostly reverted version of the Ult with a few improvements to help it have more clear gameplay and understandable impact. What is the "clear gameplay and understanding impact" you talked about a month ago? I hate to say this but with Zac's useless old Q, **he had so much clearer gameplay than he is now, because the AoE long slow(+shortCD) allows Zac to pick up his blobs. Very intuitive play style. ** NO, don't revert Q. Figure out a solution yourselves, you are a company! Fix the champion, Zac is too messed up now.
Xyltin (EUW)
: Some things I don't like: * Q CD change makes it too important to max Q second. Instead a 14-10 sec CD makes more sense to keep the option open * Q2 is an AA but still does less dmg than his AA early on. I would change the Q dmg to 1.0 tAD + 0.3 AP + 1/1.4/1.8/2.2/2.6% max HP. This keeps the incentive to max Q second not only for the CD but also for the dmg scaling still but makes the Q feel less terrible as an AA ability in terms of early dmg. * W still feels horrible and I hoped that when you revert the R you would work a bit on the power balance between his Q, W and E. * Q: Slow reduced to 50% from 60% (slightly harder to apply the second hit in time, but just slightly because the slow is only 0.5 sec long anyways) * W: dmg up to 28-100 from 15-75 (more DPS and incentive to max W second if you want DPS over CC) * E: dmg down to 60-240 from 60-260 (less bursty early) Zac is already not strong. He is on the weaker side at least in soloQ. The R revet will give him a tick of help there, but likely not much, it is a change of style and where the R has power. Easier to access, but also harder to abuse well (EQR into a 100% kill or even 2 is gone). why does he not get actual help? I doubt that the R revert really does so much for him that he will come even close to being back.
All you care about is damage. Tanks aren't supposed to do so much damage. If a tank needs buff, it should be for either utility(CD/CC) and base stats. This is too messed up. **The reverted R, R's CC immunity removal, and Q's CD are all nerfs for his tank build(default). I hope you do realize that. ** The more tanky Zac is, the more picking blobs becomes meaningful, it is what makes him Zac, it is what makes him unique!
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
You have only traded current R's buffed AP ratio for W. Not that I care, I prefer full tank, W base damage revert, or adding %health ratios or armor/ms(to pick up blobs or connect Q) are all good options. Reverting R is nerf, fyl. If you disagree, still needs a buff, not Q nerf.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
If the target is so far away, I want Q2 to still connect if the command was to punch the target as long as Q1 is connected, while when it comes to pulling the enemy, you could leave it as is. More importantly, Q NEEDS COOLDOWN to be active in long teamfights !!
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
I hope you do realize that one of the things we're looking for is consistency. His old Q had only 9 sec CD at lvl 1 , now it is MORE THAN 15 sec.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
Q's cooldown is TOO LONG already. Remember that it starts counting down after Q2. E's knockup nerf revert(from 0.5-1.0 to 1.0 sec) is what I personally find reasonable because the higher E is, the harder it is to do full duration knockup. Zac gets punished for maxing E.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
Hey!!! I don't care about AP ratios, don't force us into maxing Q second. Now that his R no longer come with Unstoppable or anything for defense. This is 100% a nerf.
Ałice (EUNE)
: **Did you know?** Zac's Q cooldown is longer than 13 seconds if you consider that it only starts counting after the second Q. {{champion:154}}
Zac needs to max W second because it is his spammable skill. For a tank, he needs to STAY and **do something** after E+Q until the fight is over. Additionally, his passive and healing give more reason to STAY as long as possible.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
**Did you know?** Zac's Q cooldown is longer than 13 seconds if you consider that it only starts counting after the second Q. {{champion:154}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
Give Zac his E's 1 sec knockup back. {{champion:154}}
Ałice (EUNE)
: **Revert Zac's E duration back to 1 second**.{{champion:154}}
It becomes harder to hit its full CC duration the more E is leveled up. Why does Zac get punished for maxing E?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
**Revert Zac's E duration back to 1 second**.{{champion:154}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
Consider making Zac's Q cooldown start with initial attack. Or +5 MS to pick up blobs easier. **MOST IMPORTANTLY, revert E knockup to 1 second.** {{champion:154}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
When are the Zac changes coming to PBE? or What are your current planned changes? Please share. {{champion:154}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 3
Change Vayne's true damage to physical. This should balance her completely and make tanks more playable.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 3
Can you provide more info on Zac's "improved" revert? not expecting numbers, words should be enough.
: Early 9.10 Patch Discussion
**Change Vayne's W into physical damage without changing the percentage. She can crit and do 28% HP true damage on a tank PER SECOND.** Only W.
: Early 9.10 Patch Discussion
Given it doesn't matter how far behind Vayne is once she gets Rageblade. As the engager(tank), it's a terrible experience to lose a teamfight for deciding to engage on a 20/0 KDA slippery assassin(zed/yi/yasuo) instead of Vayne, who is also slippery.
Ałice (EUNE)
: Vayne's W is definitely unhealthy for the game. Make it so that tanks won't be _**forced **_ to ban Vayne in order to play tank, please.
Given it doesn't matter how far behind Vayne is once she gets Rageblade. As the engager(tank), it's a terrible experience to lose a teamfight for deciding to engage on a 20/0 KDA slippery assassin(zed/yi/yasuo) instead of Vayne, who is also slippery.
: Early 9.10 Patch Discussion
Vayne's W is definitely unhealthy for the game. Make it so that tanks won't be _**forced **_ to ban Vayne in order to play tank, please.
: Early 9.10 Patch Discussion
Can you share your current plans for Zac? Two weeks of testing, what are your overall thoughts of his current & after state? {{champion:154}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Pąìn,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nX38a2jE,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-04-21T01:35:36.923+0000) > > riot , he uses the "sh*t" word, fire him pls. fuck, my bad.
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nX38a2jE,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-04-21T01:40:08.098+0000) > > f**k, my bad. Not cool, you're disgusting. It seems you are not fully aware of **your position, _Rioter_. ** By saying that, you're encouraging the players to copy you and use you; a Rioter, as excuse for them to say inappropriate words. As well as resulting in bad quality games because there are players like myself who're willing to immediately mute any sign of toxicity, or even give up. Please stop.
Klobeard (EUW)
: > Zac - We’re currently testing a mostly reverted version of the Ult with a few improvements to help it have more clear gameplay and understandable impact. Since the other main reasons he is not a viable top laner anymore are his reworked Q along with the loss of damage that the gain in CC brought, are you looking into changing anything regarding zacs top lane viability? A suggestion the Zac subreddit made several times would b to combine his old and new Q, kind of like pykes Q. Tap for old Q, hold for new Q. Would something like this be a possible middleground? Thank you for your awesome Work {{champion:154}}
Or the opposite, hold/double tap Q to use the other arm for a long range punch on the same target only(since Q was linear).
: Post MSI Gameplay Improvements
Revert patch 7.10 E nerf please. Knockup from 1 second to 0.5-1.0. Gets punished for maxing E. It's meaningless...
: > Zac - We’re currently testing a mostly reverted version of the Ult with a few improvements to help it have more clear gameplay and understandable impact. I swear if you revert this champion I'm gonna quit league, because this champion is the only fun thing left in this miserable game. I'm a Zac main since season 3, currently diamond 1 and the old version of Zac was completely useless. Here is why: -His old Q barely managed to do 50 dmg and it didn't even slow that much. I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER USING THIS USELESS SPELL IN TEAMFIGHTS. -You could do some nice things with Zac's old version of his ultimate, like flash behind an enemy and knock him into your team, but there was only one problem - YOU WERE JUMPING LIKE AND IDIOT FOR 4 SECONDS, UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING DURING THAT TIME, EXCEPT SPAMMING "W" BRAINLESSLY. On top of that you can do the same thing with Zac's new version of his ultimate, but now you are able to do more than just pressing after casting ult "W". The current version of Zac is better than the old one. Here is why: -you can create so much more pressure on the bottom side of the map after lvl 6 because of the easy double kill, if the enemies have no flashes. You can even dive if you know that the enemy jungler is not near to stop you. -now i want you to compare the efficiency of the new "Q" compared to the old one. With the new one you can stun 2 targets together, knock them up and slow them and have an easy E after that. As i said, with the old one you could barely slow them and the range was so short as well. -With his current ult you can do MASSIVE comebacks. Let's say that u are losing early, but you scale better than the enemy team. And you have Zac. If Zac lands a 3-5 man ult, that's it. In high elo the game would already be over. I don't remember being able to do the same thing with the old one, except to jump 4 times like an idiot in the middle of the teamfight. There is no reason Zac's ult should be reverted. And it's obvious, that the people, who want a revert, can't really play the game :)
> With his current ult you can do MASSIVE comeback. EXZACLY THIS!!! UPVOTE THIS COMMENT PLEASE.
Psyfist (NA)
: Did you guys consider any changes to Zac's Q as well? I think the new one is great, but if it worked more like Pyke's Q (having 2 parts) then it might help his ability to lane again just to have some reliable poke.
No please, being able to immobilize more than one target is what Zac is special at.
: Post MSI Gameplay Improvements
> * **Zac** - We’re currently testing a mostly reverted version of the Ult with a few improvements to help it have more clear gameplay and understandable impact. {{champion:154}} WOW !!! My champion has finally gotten noticed!!! Not sure if I should be happy in regards to reverting his ultimate though, because it will make him less strategic/team-fights initiator. Crowd control is what tanks are supposed to provide, but we will see how the testing goes. **I REALLY HOPE YOU DON'T REMOVE "UNSTOPPABLE" FROM HIS ULT.** Zac needs a way to make picking up blobs easier, his base armor is the lowest among tanks. Currently, using R allows him to expand and heal instantly. P.S. Buff the knockup from 0.5-1.0 to always 1.0 sec, ~~and reduce Q CD.~~
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Ałice

Level 145 (EUNE)
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