Rαy (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=GonahtanuGepardi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iaoF8I2Z,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-23T22:25:40.247+0000) > > That is an argument which debunks your argument. Everyone getting oneshot unless they itemize correctly. So what was your problem again? How is a jungler/support/toplaner supposed to pick Barrier? In what way does a Hexdrinker help you against the other non-AP threats on the enemy team? These are situational picks which help you against certain champs/spells, not the whole oneshot fiesta itself.
I mean, Jungler/Supports/Toplaners build their fair share of items with defensive stats. Any Bonus HP can screw Annie's kill potential and those roles have plenty of items available to suit their needs. Unless they go full damage, in which case they made the game to be bursty by themselves.
: > [{quoted}](name=Anu3isII,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iaoF8I2Z,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-08-23T20:26:23.336+0000) > > Because she historically barely used the ability defensively? Most of the times it was used to stack her Passive and surprise opponents with Ult Stun (or Buff Tibbers). Its defensive part could help sometimes, but it was barely used in that scope. > > And you can't tell me you don't see how a boost of movement speed can be helpful on a champion such as Annie, who engages almost every fight for her team. > > Moreover, take into account that she maxes her E last, meaning that she gets 8% less Damage reduction for 50% decaying Bonus Movement Speed for most of the game. The CD increase will slow her Passive stacking while barely affecting her Teamfight potential (unless you really want to rush max CDR on her). > > Any major boost in her engage potential is dangerous and Riot is apparently aware of that with these changes. Considering they also removed the Enrage on Ult Engage, they also nerfed her damage quite a bit, not only her defensive power. Besides, that movement speed boost may help more in dodging skills than absorbing them. Umm historically it is hard defensively. Often used to win auto trades early at level 2 when the enemy midlaner tries to all in you. It also would often help mitigate damage in not just trades but tower dives and poke through minion waves. Not to mention tibbers benefited from it as well. That's also the design point early its meant to survive harder auto based trades but late its just there for tibbers and passive stack/rotation.
We all know people poke her from far away with Skill Shots instead of Auto-Attacking Annie. Yes, it can be used defensively, but no one in their right mind would go all in without being sure they can burst her. And the very same strat is used by Orianna at level 1, which is way more powerful, but I digress. Unless she goes vs low Range champions, her Shield will mostly be a small damage reduction for poke (during laning phase) and that is what they want to address, by making it a Speed Boost to dodge poke. You don't need Damage Reduction when you can dodge things. Her major issue is that she is both low ranged and immobile, making her an all or nothing champion vs higher range characters. By giving her tools to both engage and dodge, they essentially make her less volatile in particular match-ups. I agree tho that the removal of it from Tibbers sucks. Now he will easily be targeted by ADCs and she will be more vulnerable without him (since he is her main zoning tool when alive). But for Ealry Game, I'm more than happy about this change. 8% Damage Reduction will barely be felt and the speed boost would definitely increase Annie's threat range. She will still be hard to trade against if anyone tries.
Meritas (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Anu3isII,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iaoF8I2Z,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-08-23T20:26:23.336+0000) > > Because she historically barely used the ability defensively? Most of the times it was used to stack her Passive and surprise opponents with Ult Stun (or Buff Tibbers). Its defensive part could help sometimes, but it was barely used in that scope. > > And you can't tell me you don't see how a boost of movement speed can be helpful on a champion such as Annie, who engages almost every fight for her team. > > Moreover, take into account that she maxes her E last, meaning that she gets 8% less Damage reduction for 50% decaying Bonus Movement Speed for most of the game. The CD increase will slow her Passive stacking while barely affecting her Teamfight potential (unless you really want to rush max CDR on her). > > Any major boost in her engage potential is dangerous and Riot is apparently aware of that with these changes. Considering they also removed the Enrage on Ult Engage, they also nerfed her damage quite a bit, not only her defensive power. Besides, that movement speed boost may help more in dodging skills than absorbing them. Only someone who doesn't play Annie would say this for her shield. Maybe in late game, but during laning phase it makes the difference needed for a close fight.
Are you telling me a 8% Damage Reduction makes the difference? On a Bursty Squishy character? Sry, but I would trade that for the 50% MS any time.
Rαy (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Phat Pat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iaoF8I2Z,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-23T17:33:54.011+0000) > > You're trolling. No one takes any of that on Annie but Protobelt. If you are talking support Annie, there's much better picks. Still an overreaction. Not at all, these are all viable choices depending on the game.
Unless you go support, you can't afford to go hexflash and ghost will almost always be suboptimal since Annie needs Ignite for Early Pressure or Teleport to survive lanes/Map Pressure. Outside of those, all 3 items you mentioned have significant Pick Rates to the point where some might be considered core to her build.
Phat Pat (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Rαy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iaoF8I2Z,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-23T17:00:59.353+0000) > > You mean apart from Protobelt, Spellbinder, Ghost, Hexflash or Mobies? Yes. You're trolling. No one takes any of that on Annie but Protobelt. If you are talking support Annie, there's much better picks. Still an overreaction.
Spellbinder has 15% Global Pick Rate on Annie, above Proto at 12%. Mobies are her second most picked boots at 7% after Sorcerer's at almost 80%. Ghost does seem to be a rare pickup, so I wouldn't really count it. Same for Hexflash. This all Plat+ Data from LeagueOfGraphs. The higher you go Protobelt increases in Pick Rate while Spellbinder still is around 15%. However, this shows how important mobility is to her and any buff to it has to be carefully done.
: Why is riot giving a historically immoble champ more mobility while at the same time reducing her defenses? A tiny bit of speed burst for a big loss of defensive uptime seems like a terrible trade off. I don't see how this helps her overall game mid or support.
Because she historically barely used the ability defensively? Most of the times it was used to stack her Passive and surprise opponents with Ult Stun (or Buff Tibbers). Its defensive part could help sometimes, but it was barely used in that scope. And you can't tell me you don't see how a boost of movement speed can be helpful on a champion such as Annie, who engages almost every fight for her team. Moreover, take into account that she maxes her E last, meaning that she gets 8% less Damage reduction for 50% decaying Bonus Movement Speed for most of the game. The CD increase will slow her Passive stacking while barely affecting her Teamfight potential (unless you really want to rush max CDR on her). Any major boost in her engage potential is dangerous and Riot is apparently aware of that with these changes. Considering they also removed the Enrage on Ult Engage, they also nerfed her damage quite a bit, not only her defensive power. Besides, that movement speed boost may help more in dodging skills than absorbing them.
Rαy (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=RavenMagus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iaoF8I2Z,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-08-23T15:40:18.724+0000) > > She loses damage during the initial stun duration > > Tibbers missing even one auto attack because no enrage is a big loss of damage > > This is a direct nerf to that initial burst damage Her priority targets already die during one rotation. There is no need for Tibbers autohits. I love the idea that they tried to make more out of Tibbers than just a giant nuke stun, but the enrage mechanic as a whole is pretty useless in a lot of scenarios.
You talk about a fed mid-late game Annie. Until then, she is pretty much depending on any additional source of damage to at least kill her target. Otherwise, they would flee with 10% HP or something. Additionally, if she doesn't snowball, she will take a lot more time to scale into the thing you even mention. Overall, they nerfed her burst for additional mobility, which seems fair enough in concept. Now we have to see the number balancing of her whole kit.
: > [{quoted}](name=1wolfpack,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cV5QFaIg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-23T13:41:29.006+0000) > > My favorite is "oh Im autofilled so Im going to INT/TROLL/or just DC after 5 mins of game time" I love the people who are like I don't play this role can someone take it or I just int because idk what I'm doing. That is the reason why you play that role to learn if you get autofilled.
> [{quoted}](name=deadmendontlie,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cV5QFaIg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-23T13:59:14.161+0000) > > I love the people who are like I don't play this role can someone take it or I just int because idk what I'm doing. That is the reason why you play that role to learn if you get autofilled. The thing is that most players want to play at their full potential when going ranked, so they blame the system for not picking them their best role, even tho theoretically it has been a huge improvement from the old one... I miss the old times. Even with the occasional "Mid or Feed", I still got the roles I wanted most of the times and our team managed to organise itself. Now... the system simply tries to pull some almost random matchmaking that almost always has at least 1 player autofilled. Worst of all is that after trying to help them multiple times, I came to the conclusion that I would mostly regret my decisions, since those guys only know how to win lane (sometimes) and lose game (most of the times). Player's Flexibility in roles dropped A LOT, same for their performance and coordination. Because of their "carry in one lane" mentality, they will never develop their macro play and they will always be "blind" to the team's needs and win conditions. Hence all the "I carried the game but team too heavy"... you don't carry if you don't help your team at all. Anyway, I digress... this is just another situation where a supposedly good feature is simply made bad by the playerbase. It doesn't help that it isn't that well made and the playerbase sure is dropping, resulting in worse matchmaking.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wild Geese,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEVsMjOy,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-15T01:02:44.375+0000) > > You got one of the more faithful reworks ever though, Not saying it doesn't suck but at least you weren't a Galio or Aatrox main. *cough cough* {{champion:50}}
*cough cough* {{champion:43}}
: I think the biggest issue with old Galio... similarly to new galio.. is that they are trying to make his AOE taunt work. If the would remove taunt from his kit and give him something else, his balance would probably be a lot easier. AOE stuns/taunts are powerful, and difficult to balance around. Also..i swear im not a hipster..but one of my favorite champs of all time in LoL was old Karma. She was so good. She just had ZERO synergy with the meta. If you went off meta with her and took the right lane partner with you bottom, she was a beast. My friend I play with all the time would go Pantheon as our ADC and id go support Karma. Shield bombing with pantheon's combo was HUGE damage. She would get fed in the laning phase because of it, and we would both be beastly in the mid game. Probably wouldnt work in high elo but i was heartbroken when they deleted my favorite champ. Then soon after they did it to Galio who was also a favorite of mine. Luckily I still had nunu...OH WAIT.. they did it to him too. And every time... the general public loves the changes. I am cursed in this game. Incidentally..my favorites at the moment are Trundle, Zac, Renekton, Zilean, Veigar, and Leona.. So look for Riot to delete them and "fix" them next.
> [{quoted}](name=Damoklese,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdPUmMWa,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-08-14T05:16:24.617+0000) > > I think the biggest issue with old Galio... similarly to new galio.. is that they are trying to make his AOE taunt work. If the would remove taunt from his kit and give him something else, his balance would probably be a lot easier. AOE stuns/taunts are powerful, and difficult to balance around. I agree with you, both iterations have suffered because of his AoE taunt, which simply is too good. > Also..i swear im not a hipster..but one of my favorite champs of all time in LoL was old Karma. She was so good. She just had ZERO synergy with the meta. If you went off meta with her and took the right lane partner with you bottom, she was a beast. My friend I play with all the time would go Pantheon as our ADC and id go support Karma. Shield bombing with pantheon's combo was HUGE damage. She would get fed in the laning phase because of it, and we would both be beastly in the mid game. Probably wouldnt work in high elo but i was heartbroken when they deleted my favorite champ. Then soon after they did it to Galio who was also a favorite of mine. Luckily I still had nunu...OH WAIT.. they did it to him too. And every time... the general public loves the changes. I am cursed in this game. I loved old Karma as well, tho I played her mid lane and still kept playing her Rework. Still, her old version was way more fun. I also feel the same way for other champions like Fiora and Eve. Loved to play the old ones, then they got reworked and people generally like them while they are not as fun as they used to be. > Incidentally..my favorites at the moment are Trundle, Zac, Renekton, Zilean, Veigar, and Leona.. So look for Riot to delete them and "fix" them next. I think only Rene and Leona are somewhat safe and the others will be unfortunately "fixed"...
: Won't lie, I preferred the old gargoyle. If anything, make two champs. The old one (with nerfs or buffs or whatever necessary) and the new one. They can be brothers for all we care. The new one doesn't even feel like a gargoyle tbh.
While I hate his new visual appearance, a true Gargoyle doesn't make sense in the current Demacia, hence they took the weird giant appearance more similar to a Colossus as a Protector. Old Galio was a protector of an inventor, while new Galio is the protector of the people, so he is supposed to inspire hope and safety compared to the old one.
: I dont understand why people like his new kit over his old one. His old kit..when you hit with his Q and E.. it hurt. You could chunk casters with his Q alone. With a little bit of farm/feed he could take out entire creep waves with just one cast of each. All of that.. and his ult.. and his shield. And despite all that he wasnt overpowered. He was barely played..his W/L ratio was even a little low as I recall. The reason they reworked him is because he didnt fit the meta. What we have now is this limp noodle. He isnt as durable.. he is DEFINITELY not as damaging.. his powers are not nearly as effective in team fights or lane pushing. Yet somehow everyone prefers this version? Im at a total loss. This champ sucks. His kit sucks..his numbers suck.. he still has no place in the meta...why Riot? Why do you do this? Quit fixing shit that aint broken.
> [{quoted}](name=Damoklese,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdPUmMWa,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-13T04:17:07.933+0000) > All of that.. and his ult.. and his shield. And despite all that he wasnt overpowered. He was barely played..his W/L ratio was even a little low as I recall. The reason they reworked him is because he didnt fit the meta. No, the main reason why he was reworked was his extremely low Play Rate, one of the lowest any champion could ever have. That meant that he was mostly played by a very small, dedicated player base and barely anything else. While you and the other few Galio players definitely see him as "Ok", people saw him as a joke similar to Karma Pre-Rework. "What is a Galio" is a real meme. Riot's decision has been to rework him in order to make him more interesting for the general player and, naturally, increase his popularity. And it really isn't that hard to see how the new one is more liked. Active passive, very impactful long cd abilities vs low impact and spammable spells, mobility, versatility. While old Galio definitely had numbers in his favour, new one has way more potential uses and much more decision making, besides a more fair distribution in power between skills. Citing what other Galio players said, he was incredibly reliant on his Flash-Ult combo, which absorbed most of his power budget. This is the second reason for the rework, since Riot couldn't see how they could balance him without making major changes to his base kit. Overall, there are pretty solid reasons why Galio was reworked. I personally don't like his new version and I doubt they will ever balance him fairly without reworking him again, but neither Old Galio was healthy in their eyes.
: 1) What site are you using, champion.gg says: Lux Support 52.98% wr 12.75% pick 2.15% ban Karma Support 49.79% 7.90% 1.59% 2) Calm your tits edgelord, no need to be such a douche.
Champion.gg is known for inflating Win Rates. It is not the best source of data while League of Graphs and U.gg are generally considered more reliable.
: How come Shyvana has no innate AS steroids?
Shyv's base kit has a lot of synergy with AS through her inbuilt On-Hit effects. Because she has no initial AS steroid and she hard scales with AS, she is a scaling champion, that has her power level based on how many items she built. Giving her AS would definitely improve her Early Game, but as a result, she would be stripped of some of her Innate On-Hit power, resulting in a lower impact when building AS and, possibly, less AS focused builds (Tank, AD Bruiser). Her major issue currently is the lack of survivability. For a melee DPS champion, she needs a lot of defence to be able to keep fighting, while her AP version doesn't. She currently gets only some resists, which aren't enough for a Damage focused meta.
: Tabi gives 20 armor, in the grand scheme of things, 18 magic pen will do much more than 20 armor against a squishy enemy Since when does wit`s end healing ignore thornmail`s grevious wounds? And do you have any evidence of thornmail being weak? ive went from losing to master yi to winning after finishing it when playing against him.
18 Magic Pen would barely help you at all if you don't build Damage. You talk about Master Yi, a guy who would destroy anyone who doesn't burst him in one combo. If you can burst him because of 18 Magic Pen, sure, go for it. Let's just compare them, shall we? UNIQUE – AT WIT'S END: Basic attacks deal 15 − 80 (based on level) bonus magic damage on-hit. While below 50% health, heal for 33% of this effect's post-mitigation damage dealt, increased to 100% for Melee champions. UNIQUE – THORNS: Upon being hit by a basic attack, reflects 25 (+ 10% bonus armor) magic damage, while also inflicting Grievous Wounds on the attacker for 3 seconds. Considering Wit's End also gives him 50 MR, a lot more than even Sorc Boots, you would need a ton of MR to lower Wit's End Healing (which most probably wouldn't be reccomanded vs Yi) or a ton of Armor to even damage him (ignoring he also builds BotRK). As I said, Thornmail is decent item because of its Utility and stats. It only really deals damage only when you stack Armor or play Rammus or Malphite. Most of the times I personally keep Bramble Vest in inventory and finish Thornmail after I build some other items, when I feel it is actually worth upgrading.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mG9xV56E,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-02T03:39:50.484+0000) > > I assume its because he had {{item:3153}} and {{item:1416}} > > Also youre better off building {{item:3075}} and {{item:3110}} to tank against yi and vayne ====> **respectively**. <==== You need to learn what the word respectively means, I never said to build frozen heart against yi, thornmail against yi, frozen heart against vayne. And I already explained how much useless tabi was in that situation, if you cant read before you respond atleast look at the death log and see that yi only did 400 basic attack damage out of 4.5k Most of yi`s damage was onhit, the only thing you could do was abuse thornmail to damage him back, you simply don't understand that yi does damage via an absurd amount of auto attacks per second due to his double hit passive + rageblade.
You build Tabi for Armor too btw, which is at least half the damage the death recap in the OP shows. If he really rushed {{item:3153}} {{item:1416}} , then Tabi's Armor can help significantly for survivability, especially for Squishy ADCs. And {{item:3075}} barely deals any damage. Unless you play Malph or Rammus and stack armor, the numbers are negligible. Heck, this {{item:3091}} exists and is very good on Yi and other on-hit users and it completely counters {{item:3075}} . Yi deals an absurd amount of Damage, absurdly high to make Thornmail look like a joke. The big thing about Thornmail is that it also offers decent defensive stats.
: I never talked about jhin. Why you telling me about Jhin? Again, it's just ironic that you say " ship whatever you want", as Riot's subtle suggestion about the relationship of Garen and Katarina is nothing romantic at all. The relationship between them are rivals who got forced to become commrade for a battle, and you choose to think rivals who try to survive in a battle can grow some kind of romance. To put it in a simple way, if you are in a battlefield and your life is in danger, you wouldn't think about romace yourself, otherwise it'd be unreasonable. And there is the bound between Taric an garen in the lore but you are the one who choose to ignore.
You quote his interaction with said champions, then completely ignore him, nice. And your whole explanation about Kat and Garen's relationship is based on only one selectively chosen element of the game while ignoring all it's precedents and new ones (like new Panth interaction). And I find it amusing you talk about a "bound" between those when they barely got connected in Taric's update and it's clearly shown that Garen didn't do any sacrifice to help Taric. Sure, he helped Taric to be only exiled, such a nice way to help your love interest. Not even go and help them! I guess his job is better than the safety of his star. And based on your posts I'm really curious about how you view old Taric. The guy who, btw, has always been shipped with Ezreal and was always considered a bit more feminine (which is still a bit visible in new Taric). I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't ship old Taric with Garen, even if he got the same story he has now.
: I'm a Kayle main and I agree. Why is her ult AP ratio 0.8? Old Kayle's ult had the weakness of being CC'd, but if you try to CC someone targetted by new Kayle ult, you'll get hit by the burst.
Because you can't auto with her during that time. Now CC doesn't counter her as hard while she isn't as deadly as she used to be when not CC'ed. Granted you can CC her after her Ult, she loses her DPS because of it and unless you go full AP-Burst, her Ult will definitely deal less Damage than her AAs during its cast time.
: {{champion:44}} Taric slumped to his knees at the sight of {{champion:86}} Garen's shattered body chained aloft as a warning. Between Taric and his friend stood the sum total of Noxus' might. And yet still, without hesitation, Taric raised his shield and drove all before him. Claiming Garen from the gates, the young warrior marched toward Demacia, heavy with his burden, knowing full well that his return would ensure his execution. {{champion:44}}{{champion:86}}"The always-enchanting tale of star-crossed lovers." {{champion:55}} {{champion:69}} "Your finale will be a duet."? {{champion:55}} {{champion:91}} "Your finale will be a duet."?
Yet, Jhin doesn't have any interaction with any of the champs you personally mentioned. You can ship what you want, but League has always suggested subtly a relationship between Katarina and Garen, fact that you choose to ignore.
: Would Morgana be seen as an enemy or ally to Atreus/Pantheon?
I think he definitely would be conflicted about her and he would give her a chance to prove her word. If he finds any action she takes as being suspicious, he most probably wouldn't hesitate to attack her tho, even after they talked everything.
: Tabi barely does anything vs yi as well. Just saying. Yeah, it doesn't make sense because all he does is auto attack you to death, but the majority of damage he deals isn't even classified as auto attack damage for whatever reason.
I agree with you, I can get why True Damage isn't lowered, but I don't get why On-Hit effects aren't considered part of Auto-Attacks... Overall, those two annihilate anything that doesn't dodge Auto-Attacks...
: I assume its because he had {{item:3153}} and {{item:1416}} Also youre better off building {{item:3075}} and {{item:3110}} to tank against yi and vayne --->**respectively.**<--- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ {{item:3075}} is seriously amazing at dealing with yi`s auto twice auto auto twice auto auto twice in 3 seconds bs. Both combined would seriously gimp vayne`s dps due to the attack speed slow... And since they arnt really building crit (not much damage from basic attacks)....and they are squishy (can abuse magic pen against them)....Im really sorry for even suggesting this but build {{item:3020}} so your {{item:3075}} and abilities will do a lot more damage.. I know you may prefer to just be as tanky as possible rather than dealing more damage but youre just healing them, pure tanks are dead. Edit : **-> I NEVER SAID TO BUILD FROZEN HEART AGAINST YI <- ** LEARN WHAT RESPECTIVELY MEANS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yi's R also ignores Attack Speed Slows from what I remember, which includes {{item:3110}} . Besides, he has/builds a lot of on-hit effects that deal flat damage so you would need to build hp too to survive him. And Thornmail barely does any Damage, you would be better building {{item:3047}} against those 2.
IzzŸ (EUW)
: AD ashe does that anyway? And MFs E still HAS its AP ratio even if it's a small ratio. I don't want it to be strong, and I'm open to a lower ratio, but there's no good argument for it having no ratio.
True. I guess the major reason is that Riot isn't willing to support this play style, hence the silence about the topic. I'm still a bit salty after Cait's rework, since I did enjoy playing her AP from time to time.
Kayloola (NA)
: Struggling Earning an S or S+ for ADC
Get Control Wards and Blue Trinkets in case you don't feel safe. Don't hesitate to place them in key spots.
: What do you mean? old taric was all point and click boredom, how do you find it less boring than current one which actually needs to aim stuff.
Probably he doesn't talk about skill checks and more about his strengths. Many people argue that his Ult is so powerful and game changing that it sucked most of his budget dry leaving him mostly an Ult Bot. His former self, if he had enough gold, could become an unlikable Stunning machine that would constantly heal and break you to death, leaving you no choice but to run. His new self tried to maintain some of these aspects (heh), but ofc at a much lower degree. Hence, people who enjoyed Old Taric don't really like the new one.
: You think you’re going to win by keeping those people in game for another 5 minutes? Usually, even if I don’t want to surrender, I find that in games where early ff vote pops, we lose simply because of lost morale.
> Usually, even if I don’t want to surrender, I find that in games where early ff vote pops, we lose simply because of lost morale. And that is the thing I'm against. Being forced to surrender because a part of the team simply gives up very early into the game. They are not kept hostage, they just sabotage any chances to win and it should be discouraged. Besides, this is reportable. I had my games where I wanted to concede and voted yes and some members voted no. What did I do? I continued playing, even if I had my doubts. Instead of ruining the match, I would still try to win and do whatever I can. For your first point, while I'm keeping them 5 mins in the game, they waste a whole game for me and the possible other allies that want to play. Just because they gave up, even in games where we clearly had the advantage.
: Go back to your bridge, troll. Stop holding players hostage in dead, non-games where you don't even get to play.
Those who don't get to play are those who gave up on games. They simply don't even try to play it...
: > [{quoted}](name=Anu3isII,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jAR4iZb7,comment-id=000600020001,timestamp=2019-07-26T06:46:49.756+0000) > > If people don't even try when they are on losing side, then why should anyone play this game? Just for easy wins? This is what you "never surrender" people don't get. Being on the losing side is not the problem, it's being on the side that has hardcore inting shitters. Like I'll play out a game if it's like 11-17 or 20-15 but if it's like 5-18. That shit is not fun and I for one don't like playing with feeders.
If my whole team is doing bad and I can't see how I could help them, I do surrender. But if I know I have the possibility to work with some of them to win or even hard carry, I would still try. You focus too much on feeders while ignoring that most of the times you have valuable allies you can actually rely on. And I'm saying this very seriously: most LoL players give up way too soon just because of some early deaths. It isn't the end of the world if opposing laner gets one or two kills. It isn't the end of world if your opponents' team has advantage all over the map (unless all of you play Early Game champs, in which case something is really wrong). It is harder? Yeah, ofc, but you can always try your best to win. I'm feeling sorry for all people that feel like they are kept hostage by some measly 5 mins, but seriously... if someone votes no, then it means they still want to try to win and want to continue the match. And as I said multiple times, 5 minutes in LoL, no matter how short the period seems, can be game changing.
: or it could be your 0/11/2 "It's just a game man" Vayne flaming people all day and voting 'no' just to piss people off, like it has 99% of the time in **MY** experience. Yours may be different, but please understand where I come from. Seriously, if it's winnable, 2 of those people on your team would vote 'no'. I can't put into words how frustrating it may be to be getting stomped and have 2 people vote 'no', but at least when they do I know it's because we have a chance (and tbf I haven't actually lost a game yet where it's a 3/2 y/n split for a ff vote... even if I really want to ff because everyone's ignoring the enemy jungler camping me) and not because some random asswipe is griefing. Seriously, ask yourself why you're arguing against an early FF being allowed if it's 4y and 1n. It's already the case at 20 minutes, and all those matches where one person was like "Oh fuck no, I want you to suffer through my 11/0 Illaoi" were losses anyway, for reasons I've predicted to come to pass. The 0/11 Vayne didn't just suddenly get gud and quit inting, and it's Silver so I'm the only one who walks out of Illaoi's R. Like, yes, if you ripped every player away from their computer and then put people with a brain in their place you could sorta' stall it out and scale, but until then you gotta' deal with the Vayne whose first and only goal is to get hit by every Illaoi tentacle because she's really into tentacles up every hole _and more._
To keep it short, I'm against early 4/1 thing because most of them seemed purrly based on tilt and because I have had stabilised a decent amount of games to make people change their mind. I also am a bit biased because, as I said, I do play a decent amount of hyper carries and heavy snowballers. If early 4/1 would become a thing, those types of champions would suffer the most since they scale/carry by themselves. If you don't give them time, ofc they won't get to assist their allies and stabilise the game. Heck, even with things like the 0/11/2 Vayne I managed to win games. If you want to tryhard getting LP or you are at your limit, then yeah, say Yes for surrender. But I personally find satisfaction in winning games even with worst inters. And even if I would fail, I tried my best and made sure to make it a hard victory for my opponents. I do have my games where I say yes, but those happen only when I really lose any hope to win and don't see how my team could adapt to win the game.
: I can understand that you may come at this from a standpoint of 'I've won games like this so shut up' but can you take a moment to think about the fact that the four people in the match who think it's hopeless are being held hostage by the one person whose either griefing or feeding? They are not asking for it to be 3/2, they're asking for it to be 4/1 which is still a supermajority instead of complete unanymity. I have yet to see one single game, of my 600+ this season, where a FF@15 vote that 4 people have accepted and 1 has denied is unwarranted. They're games where Vayne is 15/0 to your 0/12 Illaoi and 0/3 Rammus, not games where it's your Illaoi feeding but your Caitlyn dominating. The games where your feeding Illaoi is trying to FF despite your Caitlyn being badass always have ended a minimum of 3/2, and usually end 1/4 y/n with people calling to report the Illaoi for giving up, feeding and trolling. Then again maybe I'm just talking to a brick wall and I'll be downvote-botted because I had the audacity to come into a thread and say something that doesn't mesh with the echo-chamber's view on things. It's like individual threads are becoming echo-chambers now.
Don't get me wrong, but generally when people vote for ff they most of the times vote based on their own performance and (in case the team is doing really bad) the team's performance. I personally had plenty of games in my years of playing this game where I either was really fed and/or a hyper carry like Kass and my allies would still want to surrender 4/1 despite my performance just because they had a bad time in that game. While it can be a 4/1 vote, it doesn't change the fact that it is still a very early vote and the game still has chances to be turned around. Hyper carries scale, bullies become weaker and gold advantages can decrease significantly if said team plays safe and farms. It may not be "fun" for some players to play as the underdogs, but that is part of the competitive League. If people don't even try when they are on losing side, then why should anyone play this game? Just for easy wins? I agree with you that sometimes, maybe the vote should work when 4/1, but definitely it would result in lots of winnable games being thrown away, just because your team gave up. Giving up isn't okay and it is a reportable aspect of league if it leads to suboptimal play. And, frankly I don't consider this thing as being a "hostage" situation since this feature has been implemented for teams that feel like they have no hope to win. If an ally voted no, it means they believe there is a chance. Sure it may be lower than what most people would like to have, but there is still one and that ally believes it is achievable. If nothing changes, the team can decide in the next 5 minutes. If not, then it clearly means the team gave up too fast.
HàrrowR (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Anu3isII,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uGRfzPhs,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-07-24T17:27:02.635+0000) > > I personally believe a Tank should be able to punish a full AD team. After all, they skip one of their major stats (MR) and build as much Armor as they want. What do you mean by punish? Champs like {{champion:33}} will certainly punish a full ad comp, on the other hand i don't believe games should be won in the champ select, if you pick a tank into full ad team it should make it easier for you to itemize as it would for the rest of your team, which is why you don't go full ad or ap, but otherwise shouldn't just be a ff at 15 case for the other team
Why would you go 5 AD when there is no advantage to it? That is a question I will eternally ask, especially to people who think this is a lose by "champion select". Which is also very easily avoided by taking a Magic Damage dealer. Heck, even as an ADC you can go Corki or AP Kai'Sa and still be a DPSer for your team. I don't say going vs 5 AD should be an Auto-Win, but definitely it should be hard for the enemy team to kill a Tank that goes only for Armor or MR vs full AP.
Sherogarth (EUNE)
: Few "FUN" facts about Armor and Armor Penetration.
I personally believe a Tank should be able to punish a full AD team. After all, they skip one of their major stats (MR) and build as much Armor as they want. Armor reduction has never been a necessary evil. It always was added to bruisers in order to make them better at dealing with Tanks in lane. Black Cleaver and recently Conqueror have been made for this sole reason to help them. Sure, they sometimes help their allies, but I personally think the ally interaction is minimal for most of the champions you mentioned (compared to their Dueling aspect).
FSRER (EUNE)
: Yeah, that is why **LeBlanc** is getting god damned buffed. She had only one ability that did not 1 shot you (her half lane range root) and even that is getting buffed. Kha zix is getting a +10 Q damage but leblanc gets this change: 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 from 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 damage. Come the fuck on Riot
Yeah, let's ignore all her previous nerfs on her second maxed ability (which was her main source of damage most of the times) because her third maxed ability gets some buffs (which, ironically, will take effect at level 14 with her current build, unless she switches from her targeted Q to her skillshot E for more Damage, while being less reliable).
: There shouldnt be a rune which gives you a straight up 1000 gold lead while also being ahead in the first place. Especially with how low cost Mage items are especially the Zhonya protobelt combo.
1. It doesn't give straight up 1k gold. It builds over time, it depends on RNG and, most importantly, it requires you to have range advantage. 2. The only mages who really use Klepto are Kennen and Karma. Kennen has always been this bully for melee ppl, while Karma has been buffed recently to make her more viable and she either builds Tank or Support items, so considering her is a bit of a stretch. Some other mages have historically used, but never in their traditional AP build (like On-Hit TF or Tank Viktor). So it seems more of an issue you personally have with Kennen (who happens to build the combo you mentioned). 3. While the rune does bring a huge gold lead when ahead, you easily ignore that it does not offer any reliable power to build that lead. Some champions that work well with it still pick some alternative runes to increase their individual power and bully/win against their opponent while trading snowball potential. 1k gold lead can be annoying, but your opponent chooses to build that lead. Imagine if the opponent tried instead to bully you into being more behind in gold, effectively negating you. Sure, your opponent wouldn't have much of a gold advantage over your team, but they would still make you feel bad and weak.
: Heres the thing though: Klepto users have other runes to fall back on. GP? Grasp Tank top Karma? Aery or Grasp (mainly Aery) Kennen? Phase Rush or Electrocute (Aery for poke even) Ez? Comet, Electrocute, or Fleet (maybe even Sum Spellbook). These Ez ones seem questionable because Klepto is like the only rune he uses period. Have no real way to gauge the strength of the other runes if they get overshadowed that hard by Klepto.
Except that even for the picks you mentioned Klepto isn't the main rune of all of them (based on Pick Rate), so it doesn't really overshadow the other runes you mentioned. I would argue that it is even a situational rune for most of them, based on the match-up and/or play style. Take Karma, if she wants to go Klepto she most probably goes Top, builds Tank and faces a melee character. Just based on all these conditions you realise that Klepto isn't her main Rune, Aery being almost always being the better/safer pick.
: It would still give you a hell lot of stats in form of elixirs give you wards even gives you another skill point sometimes either completly remove the items or the gold.
You talk about high rolls, which I bet most people would prefer to avoid facing those over a sack of gold. You do realise that removing the sacks will result in Riot buffing their rates and making a Klepto users more oppressive, right? Besides, they would always have the option to sell some of them for gold. Overall, since this rune is used mostly by people who trigger it with a ranged ability or ranged autos (when vs melees), it is clear that ranged champions and some special cases abuse it while melees mostly find it underwhelming. If you want to balance it, you would better suggest ideas that lower this discrepancy, not straight-out make it useless for most of the roster.
IzzŸ (EUW)
: For context, MF's Q has a .35 ratio, Jhin, Jinx, Caitlyn, Tristana, and Lucian all have higher AP ratios on their basic abilities. Why not Ashe?
Because Ashe's W has a very long range and it is a very big AoE. The only ability close to Ashe's range and amplitude is MF's E, which has seen numerous nerfs in the past whenever it was a viable strat to poke with it. Ashe's W would be no different if she could reliably Poke them to death.
: I have never seen any melee champions take glacial augment. Maybe it's because I'm in gold, or the fact that it's already a lesser chosen rune, but seriously, never, ever, ever, have I seen a melee champion use it.
{{champion:31}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:223}} have seen some play with it, tho idk if it is as good people say.
wildfox9T (EUW)
: removing that AA thing and making it proc directly on the ability hit would be even better
It would be too good and abusable. Not all champions who like Klepto have to land abilities (like Sona with her Q), so they would just spam them without AA-ing the opponents.
: it's far from useless it still gives 5 gold per klepto hit and items. The gold sacs are just the biggest bs there is a mage abusing toplane shouldnt be able to gain a 1000 gold lead from a rune by abusing a meele match up thats the biggest bs they ever invented
You give up a Keystone for that Gold Advantage tho. Without it, why wouldn't ranged people pick Aery again and poke melee's to death? The dynamic of the lane wouldn't change much, you would still have ranged people abuse melee people because of the range difference.
Crashyy (EUW)
: Well I believe the devs should add in a second regeneration rune that heals off max hp. The missing hp is useful yeah, but for my champions and playstyle it does nothing pretty much.
Then it would be locked under much harsher restrictions. While Second Wind heals based on missing health, it is because it is also very easy to proc. Riot would never introduce things thst offer free sustain without giving them conditions to proc or very, very small numbers. Besides, not every Rune is made for every player and every champion. If Riot decides to add more Runes, then yeah, I support you. Otherwise, this Rune already fills a well-established niche and is used pretty frequently.
Crashyy (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=DerMangoJoghurt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cFv0czqq,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-20T13:50:59.315+0000) > > Technically speaking, yes. > But as I said, it's not meant to keep your health high. It's meant to make it more difficult for enemies to poke you out of lane early in the game. > > Let's assume you are laning as Ahri vs. Ziggs. You are both level 4, meaning you have 734 max health. You got poked down to 134 current health, with 600 missing health. Ziggs has 33 ap through items and runes. You get hit by his level 2 Q, dealing 141 pre mitigation damage, and 101 post mitigation damage. You heal for 24 health because of second wind. > > 24 health doesn't sound like a lot, but it's effectively restoring 24% of the damage you've taken. Add your natural health regeneration, don't get by every single skillshot and you can stay in lane significantly longer than without second wind. > [{quoted}](name=PhearBunny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cFv0czqq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-20T13:52:15.573+0000) > > Who the heck is poking you for 400 damage? > Its a rune designed to soft counter poke in lane phase. > Late game, yeah its pretty useless. > But when Pantheon is throwing spears at me on CD(Lvl 1-6), im pretty happy to have Second Wind. Oh Sorry now I understand, poke in lane. (Tank example) This may sound like an odd example but if I picked 'Conditioning' instead of 'Second Wind'. And I face a poke champion. I'm basically going to buy 'Dorans shield'. And to regenerate the damage I would buy a couple of 'Beads' to increase regeneration for 150g and sell it later for 105 gold. So if I bought sold 3 I would lose 150 gold approx. It would do a better job than 'Second Wind'. And at the end I receive armor and magic resist from 'Conditioning'. So If I had like 38 armor (28% resist), it would upgrade to 49 armor (33% resist). This buff blocks more damage than 'Second Wind' can ever regenerate. So I don't rly find a reason to take 'second wind'. Am I missing something?
The idea behind second wind is that it helps you from the very beginning of the game, while conditioning essentially does nothing. The early 10 minutes of the game are very important and every advantage can lead to snowball. Even that measly 150 gold. Besides, that is one of the major points behind Second Wind. You can stack sustain like potions and regen to become an immovable tank unless you go all-in. No one can stop you from getting all those things together with Second Wind. Overall, most people pick Second Wind because it actually helps you survive when you need it most. Conditioning is nice, but 10 mins of nothing is a significant sacrifice to make it risky. This is the very same thing as Transcendence vs Absolute Focus, some people opt for an oppressive Early Game or a scaling Late Game.
Skriggan (NA)
: What Project:Reckoning's lineup could've been like (my suggestions)
Imo, the idea behind these picks is more of a Guerrilla Warfare Team, that seek to cause as much damage as possible while always outnumbered and running, creating chaos and mayhem. Sure, not all of them are there for revenge, but this combination makes a lot of sense, especially if they cooperated in their escape from PROJECT. Your ideas are based purely on their personality/background, while ignoring how they would play out. {{champion:82}} {{champion:111}} would simply charge into the enemy line, {{champion:429}} would only chase them to death. {{champion:517}} has potential in this team, but I think he has many opportunities with other champions as well (and I find similar to the previously mentioned, a bit more direct in his approach). They could work rather well, but Riot chose a rather nice combination of outcasts that could bring devastating attacks to PROJECT. Also, I would say they picked Warwick not for his brute force, but his agility and tracking capabilities, to catch these slippery loose PROJECTs.
: The point is that Riot is chosing the champion fitting for a skin line partially on their canon base lore. Warwick has been human in his base lore. And we got told that he is the exception for Project here, he will get a story that explains why he is with the Projects, but this will not become a trend. Warwick was an unique opportunity because his base lore parallels what happened in the Project universe, he was once a human who got unwillingly experimented on. The same does not apply to Wukong. He is vastaya and vastaya champions tend to belong in the Program skin line, not Project.
As you said tho, base cannon lore partially takes part in their selection. It doesn't mean it has to follow 100% their original concept. As about Wukong being PROJECT, based on his cannon lore he may interact with Master Yi, even collaborate. This would be most likely if both them are PROJECTs. I could sse Wu being some kind of corrupted Program (even tho it would need a complete story to explain it). He is also very close to a human in terms of looks (imo), so I don't feel like he would stand out too much (he could be similar to WW, a bestial PROJECT). Overall, I agree with you that Warwick shouldn't be used as an argument for non-human PROJECTS. However, it doesn't mean Riot wouldn't be open to more beast-type PROJECTS.
: Her theme would actually fit PROJECT fantastically if they had gone the route of having her be a damaged and malfunctioning PROJECT that has gone completely wild. Maybe she would be used by the government as an example of what the resistance is "really" like.
While I like your idea, I could see her just being a normal PROJECT. Imagine her being her usual self and she somehow gets caught (maybe by PROJECT Vi) and the government tries to brainwash her and transform her into a PROJECT, only to fail and create a greater monster than before. Her tagging with the Resistance could work, since she only seeks to blow things up, while the Resistance seeks any help in their war while also keeping an eye on all PROJECTs. Letting her loose could be very devastating for both sides (government and rebellion).
Voluug13 (NA)
: ok I agree that Yuumi is a healbot but her Q damage is low at best unless she is massively fed.
Or having {{champion:45}} {{champion:202}} as her carries. Some bot duos abused this combo a lot.
DeusVult (NA)
: SoS is a busted item, but IMO jax is above average in strength even without it. since typically he gets SoS late, after {{item:3078}} and {{item:3053}} along with completed boots and possibly a tiamat, so he is strong for most of the game without that item
Based on League of Graphs, Jax in Plat+ and any particular higher Elo rushes SoS second after Trinity (and possible early Tiamat or Jungle item). Considering he most of the times picks Inspiration as secondary (with Magical Footwear), he may even ignore upgrading his boots. I agree with you that Jax is a bit OP, but SoS is also part of the reason. It is consistently built as a 2nd or 3rd item and he builds it in at least 40% of his games, with lower Pick Rate only to Trinity, which is his main item.
: Yeah, especially 11+. His pre-mitigation soak on the mark goes from 25% to 40%. That's massive, and if you get a LW and hold onto it, you can pretty much make any armor item purchase nullified.
Idk why people repeatedly mention that it is "pre-mitigation soak" when, in the end, his ult damage is still reduced by resists. It is essentially a %boost of the Damage he deals during the mark, not something that completely ignores armor. LW on him is as good as on any AD Assassin. Making it be post-mitigation damage would only affect significantly his performance vs Tanks, targets which he doesn't prioritise at all. If people want to target him, they should find ways to lower his Damage vs Squishies to make him have a harder time doing his actual job.
: Does anyone ever take font/shield bash instead of Demolish
I take Shield Bash on Shen all the time. It is too good to pass up on him imo, especially when you can't push your opponents to get an early plating to get the gold advantage you would usually have when running Demolish.
: > [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iuei0FjR,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-08T05:47:54.266+0000) > > Skill also has nothing to do with the difference between assassin and diver. > > The difference is literally just that divers get to be tankier, have leftover DPS after their burst, and have weak or no escape. Diana matches this exactly - Her W makes her surprisingly tanky, her passive gives her decent DPS, and she has no real escape outside of running like hell. Those are the exact traits of a diver. > > Skill has nothing to do with this. It's all based on what their kits have. It doesn't matter if their kit is simpler than Udyr's or more complex than 10 Rivens put together. guess we'll call rengar a diver as well then
Any Diver that goes full damage is comparable to an Assassin in terms of Damage. The major difference is in how they handle the situation afterwards. Besides, Rengar does have a Bruiser build (Grasp Keystone with Tiamat, Black Cleaver and Spirit Visage Rush), which means he can function as any normal Diver (tanky, mobile and deadly at the same time).
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Anu3isII

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