: > 1st idea: perma chat ban So lets say. The flame goes on. Still goes on for a couple games. Perma chat ban. that will prevent the player from creating another account and keep flaming, and just go on without the ability of chating. pings and champ select chat is enough of communication for someone that talks offensive and does not help his team with the chat. or after a couple of chat bans perma chat ban !BUT! with 4-5 texts per a whole game. Tried, with unlimited CRs. Guess what happend, toxic people remained toxic and since you stole their toy, they would go Int (real int, not "hurr durr u play bad u int"), trolling or plain afk. Curing only the symptoms doesn't work.
> [{quoted}](name=Laufplanke,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=uLnrVYOs,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-11T15:59:47.928+0000) > > So lets say. The flame goes on. Still goes on for a couple games. Perma chat ban. that will prevent the player from creating another account and keep flaming, and just go on without the ability of chating. pings and champ select chat is enough of communication for someone that talks offensive and does not help his team with the chat. > or after a couple of chat bans perma chat ban !BUT! with 4-5 texts per a whole game. > > Tried, with unlimited CRs. > Guess what happend, toxic people remained toxic and since you stole their toy, they would go Int (real int, not "hurr durr u play bad u int"), trolling or plain afk. > Curing only the symptoms doesn't work. if they do those, they will get banned. i am talking spefically for chat behavior. and this is the point of my post, to get connected with people and throw some ideas to reduce the toxicity. you never know where a good idea will come from
Rioter Comments
RallerenP (EUW)
: > prevently language filter. a way to not letting a player to send a text with toxic and offensive words. Simply not possible. People will ALWAYS find a way to get around a filter. Always. > permanently chat ban. When they had really long chat bans in the past, people started inting. Inting is more severe and harder to catch, so that's not really a great option.
> [{quoted}](name=RallerenP,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4bzWw9i9,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-11T15:31:16.584+0000) > > Simply not possible. People will ALWAYS find a way to get around a filter. Always. > > When they had really long chat bans in the past, people started inting. Inting is more severe and harder to catch, so that's not really a great option. have you played csgo? there's something that is called overwatch system. here you can check about it: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7562-IPJN-1009#overwhat
Yaksha (NA)
: What's the point of medicine if we're all going to die anyway
> [{quoted}](name=Yaksha,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4bzWw9i9,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-11T15:24:21.365+0000) > > What's the point of medicine if we're all going to die anyway I mean yes okay. but aren't they meant to do what's the best for the community? this isnt the best "medicine" of toxicity as it seems to me
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: I mean, got any better ideas?
> [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4bzWw9i9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-11T15:22:30.813+0000) > > I mean, got any better ideas? prevently language filter. a way to not letting a player to send a text with toxic and offensive words. permanently chat ban. a flamer will create another account to keep flame. no matter if he get a perma ban on an account..
Rioter Comments
: Riot had what was essentially permanent chat bans in the past, as chat restrictions would stack up ad infinitum. What Riot discovered was that it did essentially nothing to discourage toxicity, and that when people were unable to express their toxicity through words, they instead turned to gameplay toxicity, which is significantly harder to track. Riot decided that the best way to cut out toxicity from the game was to give a few warnings, but then if it became clear that the offender would not change their actions, then they would simply be removed from the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=VWlE60Vo,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-10T04:19:04.820+0000) > > Riot had what was essentially permanent chat bans in the past, as chat restrictions would stack up ad infinitum. What Riot discovered was that it did essentially nothing to discourage toxicity, and that when people were unable to express their toxicity through words, they instead turned to gameplay toxicity, which is significantly harder to track. > > Riot decided that the best way to cut out toxicity from the game was to give a few warnings, but then if it became clear that the offender would not change their actions, then they would simply be removed from the game. they could do something like cs go does for hackers and griefing.
rujitra (NA)
: Yes, which convincing people to leave the game does. Removing chat does not “get toxic off the game”. It just makes them be toxic in other ways that are harder to detect **AND** hinders team communication.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=00000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-04-10T23:50:44.623+0000) > > Yes, which convincing people to leave the game does. Removing chat does not “get toxic off the game”. It just makes them be toxic in other ways that are harder to detect **AND** hinders team communication. I said removing chat for the flamers. Its a punishment instead of getting a perma. pings are what a player need to team communicate
rujitra (NA)
: So.. because not everyone quits the game, Riot shouldn’t encourage *anyone* to? That’s like saying “because police don’t catch all the murderers/kidnappers/shoplifters/whatever they shouldn’t even punish the ones that they do catch”.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-10T23:26:20.220+0000) > > So.. because not everyone quits the game, Riot shouldn’t encourage *anyone* to? > > That’s like saying “because police don’t catch all the murderers/kidnappers/shoplifters/whatever they shouldn’t even punish the ones that they do catch”. you didnt catch my point. read again > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-10T23:26:20.220+0000) > > So.. because not everyone quits the game, Riot shouldn’t encourage *anyone* to? > > That’s like saying “because police don’t catch all the murderers/kidnappers/shoplifters/whatever they shouldn’t even punish the ones that they do catch”. you sound more of a revenger. but isnt the main goal to get toxic off of the game? I guess so
rujitra (NA)
: So.. because not everyone quits the game, Riot shouldn’t encourage *anyone* to? That’s like saying “because police don’t catch all the murderers/kidnappers/shoplifters/whatever they shouldn’t even punish the ones that they do catch”.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-10T23:26:20.220+0000) > > So.. because not everyone quits the game, Riot shouldn’t encourage *anyone* to? > > That’s like saying “because police don’t catch all the murderers/kidnappers/shoplifters/whatever they shouldn’t even punish the ones that they do catch”. you didnt catch my point. read again
: Several issues with the idea of permanent chat ban... First, people with a chat ban will find other ways of trolling in game. Feeding, going afk, forcing lane swaps, .. the issue isn't with the player's ability to chat, it is with a player's inability to stop themselves from acting out. Unfortunately, Riot can't make someone grow up, but they can take steps to minimize the way this will negatively impact other players. The process they have is far from perfect, but it is there none-the-less. The other issue I see is that you are underestimating the fact that people do have the desire to behave in a toxic way. I agree that there are probably many people who have received punishment from minor issues, but in those cases, their minor issues must be occurring with a high frequency in order to result in a permanent ban. Otherwise, they are receiving these bans as a result of extreme, and publicly known to be unacceptable, toxicity. However, there are still more people out there that do this on purpose because they feel they can get away with it, .. and sadly, they can. You said yourself, they can create a new account and continue to play with little to no punishment other than needing to start over and losing the content they paid for. I have zero doubt that there would be people that would have no issue with starting a new account just so they can trash talk players in chat again if they receive a permanent chat ban. This is sadly how people are, and it doesn't help that the target age group includes people who are prone to this behavior. Would I like to see improvement? Absolutely! Do I think Riot could ever create a "clean game with no toxic chats" ? .. Probably not. :/
> [{quoted}](name=Elite4Runner,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-10T22:57:32.227+0000) > > Several issues with the idea of permanent chat ban... First, people with a chat ban will find other ways of trolling in game. Feeding, going afk, forcing lane swaps, .. the issue isn't with the player's ability to chat, it is with a player's inability to stop themselves from acting out. Unfortunately, Riot can't make someone grow up, but they can take steps to minimize the way this will negatively impact other players. The process they have is far from perfect, but it is there none-the-less. > > The other issue I see is that you are underestimating the fact that people do have the desire to behave in a toxic way. I agree that there are probably many people who have received punishment from minor issues, but in those cases, their minor issues must be occurring with a high frequency in order to result in a permanent ban. Otherwise, they are receiving these bans as a result of extreme, and publicly known to be unacceptable, toxicity. However, there are still more people out there that do this on purpose because they feel they can get away with it, .. and sadly, they can. You said yourself, they can create a new account and continue to play with little to no punishment other than needing to start over and losing the content they paid for. I have zero doubt that there would be people that would have no issue with starting a new account just so they can trash talk players in chat again if they receive a permanent chat ban. > > This is sadly how people are, and it doesn't help that the target age group includes people who are prone to this behavior. > > Would I like to see improvement? Absolutely! > > Do I think Riot could ever create a "clean game with no toxic chats" ? .. Probably not. :/ I agree for trollers etc, and wrote on caps that this discussion is for chat behavior only. I know someone has to get many times banned before the permaban. But as you said people will start a new account. My main goal is to actually give some ideas, and prevent that. Obviously my ideas are not complete. But rioters can think about it and put on their own ideas and actually create something that actually helps. That's my goal, not to get my perma off, I want a better game, without the negative atmosphere.
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Apollon FiV,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T22:54:47.604+0000) > > You never know. I'm playing the game since season 2. I guarentee you that only 10-20% of my games were peaceful, with no flaming on my team or the enemy team. and numbers are maybe too high. perma does not help at all.. Luckily most of the time nowadays i play with a full premade so i can just chill without toxicity
> [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T22:56:37.334+0000) > > Luckily most of the time nowadays i play with a full premade so i can just chill without toxicity well, that's the only way to prevent it. but what about solo/duo queues where things are more competitive and people are taking it seriously?
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Apollon FiV,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T22:47:49.235+0000) > > You have a point. But not everyone quits the game. And I pointed. Even someone who wont get a permaban, wont even get a chat ban. will maybe get toxic sometimes. with prevently language filter noone will be able to. and with permachat ban noone will create another account to get toxic all over again. I would honestly be happy if we had the ability to unbind our chat button because then you can't use the chat but you can still see the chat if someone is shot calling etc. Or even to just be able to change our chat button to something else The permanent chat ban could work, but i don't think riot would do that
> [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T22:51:38.531+0000) > > I would honestly be happy if we had the ability to unbind our chat button because then you can't use the chat but you can still see the chat if someone is shot calling etc. Or even to just be able to change our chat button to something else > > The permanent chat ban could work, but i don't think riot would do that You never know. I'm playing the game since season 2. I guarentee you that only 10-20% of my games were peaceful, with no flaming on my team or the enemy team. and numbers are maybe too high. perma does not help at all..
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-04-10T22:48:21.151+0000) > > Honestly, most toxic people just get angry about it, make a new accoun anyway, or buy one, then take their anger out on more people. Riots perm banned quite a lot, but have you noticed the game getting any less toxic? I surely haven't. Which obviously means it isn't doing its job in some way. That's true but do you have a better idea?
> [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-04-10T22:49:35.254+0000) > > That's true but do you have a better idea? That's the point of this discussion. I'm trying to give some ideas to rioters.
: Honestly, most toxic people just get angry about it, make a new accoun anyway, or buy one, then take their anger out on more people. Riots perm banned quite a lot, but have you noticed the game getting any less toxic? I surely haven't. Which obviously means it isn't doing its job in some way.
> [{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EKWfVXXN,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-04-10T22:48:21.151+0000) > > Honestly, most toxic people just get angry about it, make a new accoun anyway, or buy one, then take their anger out on more people. Riots perm banned quite a lot, but have you noticed the game getting any less toxic? I surely haven't. Which obviously means it isn't doing its job in some way. Agreed.. They be like "oh i have already been perma'd so i dont care" (and say that in strong lanuage not in that way)
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: I mean, permaban does work Because if someone has spent a lot of time and money on their account, with a perma ban they lose it all It's a punishment (I know it sounds really bad when you think about it, but rules are rules) And then if you want to play again, you have to start on a fresh account, and some people quit which is riot's goal, to get the toxic people to quit the game I honestly like the idea of a perma chat ban etc, but it's not gonna happen
You have a point. But not everyone quits the game. And I pointed. Even someone who wont get a permaban, wont even get a chat ban. will maybe get toxic sometimes. with prevently language filter noone will be able to. and with permachat ban noone will create another account to get toxic all over again.
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Apollon FiV

Level 91 (EUNE)
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