Opop (EUW)
: Please don't go with the PBE lore for Full Machine Viktor
It's such a misplaced change... Full Machine Viktor represents him achieving the pinnacle of his Glorious Evolution, him finally merging his soul with a machine. Now you try to change him achieving his ultimate dream into a janitor bot, and his ultimate goal from merging with machine, to outcompete his twin Jayce? What? Viktor's defining trait is _not_ his rivalry with Jayce, it's his obsession with Glorious Evolution and Full Machine Viktor represents what he is trying to achieve. Please don't allow this change to go live, Riot. It's a huge mistake to downgrade Full Machine Viktor like this. Besides this skin already has its lore. [#JanitorMains](https://twitter.com/hashtag/JanitorMains?src=hash)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 16
Hello! Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I'm concerned about Viktor part - you stated that you're holding off any nerfs what means nerfs were at least being considered. The general consensus around Viktor players is that after the last nerfs he is currently on... rather weak side, they actually seem to place him in a _worse_ spot numbers-wise than from before the buffs in 8.3 and 8.11 which were supposed to revive him from his pitiful state back then. What are your thoughts on him?
: I didn't appreciate it. I would've liked a well-fleshed out story, over blatant fanservice. But everyone's so *happy* about it. I just don't know how to feel!
As much as I love anything lore-related, I think the _real_ lore should live in the minds of its fans and works of amateur creators! Therefore the most important thing to me was for the new lore to keep, preserve and improve what people loved about the _character_. I was granted those particular things, therefore I am happy: I can continue spawning my Viktor related content sticking to my headcanons while also staying canon-true. And I don't have to repeat "_But look, he is not an evil robot overlord you think he is, let me explain this for 435674th time_" anymore, hell yeah! Of course I would be very happy with an awesome, well-fleshed story, but in my opinion, League's official lore is - should be? - built more around characters and less around particular stories. I love color stories for that - they flesh out the characters while being basically unimportant storyline-wise. They might not push the story itself forwards, but give all the fans another base to work with, another potentially unimportant detail to think about, another little tale to read and relate to its participants. You are given an image of a champion with a blurry background, and all the potential lines the artists and creators lead from this clear image to their own backgrounds. It's damn late in the night now where I live so I hope I was able to make myself clear enough andit didn't turn out too much of a nonsensical babbling. ^^;
Reset213 (NA)
: "RIOTS GONNA MESS UP VIKTOR111" "Thank you riot" oh how i hate people sometimes, so darn impatient
If we weren't vocal at the time, we would be stuck to the release Jayce lore and it would suck. Also, given the choices of some words in the story, I am sure the new lore got at least _a bit_ influenced by our feedback. I am an author of one of the big worry threads which flooded boards just after the new Jayce lore came out. Now, when I got Viktor's lore and I like it, I decided to thank Riot for their great work. It seems like a thing that a decent human being should do after being granded for what one asked with such passion. Do you have a problem with that?
: I thought it was rather well-written. I LIKE stuff that's well-written. I also like that most of Viktor's comments were about how lame and silly humans are. Influencing young minds and tampering with their fear responses! Delicious. The new lore was written weird. I think it was tampered with to sate the fanbase complaints. But even *I* must confess - the short story was **totally** awesome.
> The new lore was written weird. I think it was tampered with to sate the fanbase complaints. But even I must confess - the short story was totally awesome. Yeah, some things that the community was especially loud about, seemed to be specifically highlighted in his new lore. Even choice of some words hinted it. It is not a complainment thought! Just an observation ^^;
: All right, can we talk about how fantastic the Viktor short story was?
I've saw a handful of comments like yours today - and it makes me so happy. _This_ is why Viktor has so devoted fanbase here on boards: we saw the _human_ in him in his old lore, and we wanted others to see a human in him as well, not an evil robot overlord so many assumed him to be. With the new lore, I hope more and more people will come to like the character for this exact reason as it got stated less ambigiously now.
  Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Viktor's Patch 6.9 entry shows that whoever worked on Vik has no idea who he truly is >_>
At first I've read the Jaredan's lore Q&A and was actually delighted that they finally took a right approach towards Vik http://66.media.tumblr.com/23e6ca053ee43ea1a8a1eee665c42135/tumblr_inline_o6abykV1ml1sfzcxh_500.jpg and then I've read the patch notes and thought I will cry http://67.media.tumblr.com/f686abc6266091f23c786035bc77d839/tumblr_o6mbszgEBC1ujawqzo1_r1_500.png Well, I guess that patch notes' guys aren't the same team that deals with lore so let's hope it's just a _complete standard and usual_ misunderstanding regarding this character
: The lack of the little thing under your name that shows you're diamond is a little suspicious.
It doesn't show the border if you're from server X and post on server Y's boards. I was Diamond last season and I do not have any icon if you checked my NA boards profile now.
: I Miss Being Able to ACTUALLY "Fill"
I miss being an actual mid/support player.
: WTF is up with this Victor Nerf?
Fortunately in today's PBE cycle the most retarded changes got tweaked. Delay on lazor lowered 1.25s->1s and missile speed 780->1200 what is more than 50% faster. Sure, 1 second delay on Aftershock is still a lot but due to how goddamn _fast_ it is now, at max range it is basically equal to the current live servers version. It's so fast that dodging the initial part is literally impossible now. Given that Aftershock also deals more damage now, I can say it's fair. The Q also got tweaked a bit - missile now deals less damage in favor of empowered AA dealing more - what is actually pretty nice given that we asked the person in charge of Vik's rework for such change. Overall, after toying with PBE a bit, today's changes left me pretty optimistic. Previous instance was literally unplayable, now we're good.
: I find myself buying protobelts just to catch champions with protobelt.
http://i.imgur.com/ICuLR3Z.png Ward - Viktor distance is the range of Protobelt dash. Aka very low. And it can't go over terrain. The stats it gives also aren't impressive - 60 AP is not much, majority of mages want to stack as much AP as possible, and its build path is weird. I don't think it's a good item. Dash is too short to justify poor its stats. The best thing about Protobelts are the bolts scaling with .35 AP but you have to use it offensively since they shoot in the direction of dash. I can see champs like Ekko or Diana using it, but definitely not immobile mages, probably not even Annie.
Rioter Comments
: @Riot; How to tweak the Viktor PBE changes properly
I agree with you completely. Some of the changes are aimed in the good direction but implemented weirdly (R), and some are just a complete miss (E). --- I am pleased with Q changes. On the one hand it is now worth maxing first, if one needs more tankiness (it doesn't scale with level anymore, E secondary explosion has more damage so you have waveclear even when laser is not maxed); and on the other it doesn't scale separately when E is maxed because the level scaling is gone. I like these changes. The only thing I would change would be shifting power back into AA part of ability - right now point and click the missile is the stronger part, sometimes it doesn't even feel worth to autoattack anymore while having to do it added a fun playpattern to Viktor. I have nothing more to add to what you said about E. Champion feels laggy because of the delay. Probably no other mage is so team reliant to land a basic ability - the closest being Veigar's Dark Matter after the change to his cage, or Xerath, but in Xerath's case it is a price for his insane range. R change is in a good direction. Instant AoE burst it offered was too high and probably unfun to Viktor opponent's (although I can't say, I really, _really_ enjoyed it). Shifting the power more into DoT part is a right change, but it should tick more in my opinion. With every consecutive change it feels more and more like a controllable Kennen ult and the uptime of Rylai's slow is only 50% - this way Viktor cannot itemize for utility as effectively as now, and when deprived of utility, he is even more about damage - and the damage got unreliable. Once again, no other mage will be so team reliant.
: A champion should NEVER be made more clunky/less satisfying to play (Regarding Viktor's PBE changes)
Just hopping here to show my support, I am doing everything I can on League Subreddit and /r/viktormains to spread the information about our dissatisfaction with the rework direction. All the theorycrafting and playtesting I've made on PBE only further proved that this is not something I would ever wish my Viktor to get changed into - champion being basically a lag incarnate, everything he does now feels like the player is lagging. This experience is terrible.
Serika Zero (EUNE)
: Look at Xin and the changes he got. There were like 10 threads daily about him being over buffed on PBE. Riot didn't stop. Riot won't stop with Viktor either. As long as your target is not: Vayne, Lee sin or Riven. Riot doesn't listen
Well, they did change Jayce's lore when all the Viktor fans started protesting about it. I really hope we can change somerhing
Kuronok2 (NA)
: Of course it feels you are lagging, you are playing with 200+ ping, WTF were you expecting? PBE is always like that.
I play a lot on PBE and therefore I'm used to high ping. It's champion being clunky as hell.
: Stop Before It's Too Late
Edit: at the end of the post are some PBE videos --- These changes make no sense*, especially when paired with the previous 6.2 nerfs to his early game waveclear. Everything in his kit is now _greatly_ delayed. On top of W arming time and his autoattack range not matching the Q range causing the delay, now we have twice as long time between the secondary E explosion and ult ticking 4.6 times less often. Due to W delay, he will have _an extremly hard time_ applying the secondary damage unless he gets the setup from his teammates. The only way he can make it work himself is buying Rylai - to make secondary E hit _even possible_ - but at the same time the synergy with ult is gone due to lower tick ratio (slow lasts 1s, damage is applied once 2s), therefore greatly lowering team utility. Both E and R secondary damage instances got their damage buffed, but let's be honest - given how mobile majority of meta champions is, who is going to just stay in place and wait to be hit by the goddamn 1.25 second delayed laser explosion!? Probably only goddamn minions or 200 ping Kog'Maw. Riot, in 6.2 patch you've nerfed Viktor's early game waveclear. Now, with these new ratios, it is back. He can even have -20 AP at level 9, he will oneshot caster minions anyway. Why do you _force_ him to PvE now then? Why make him a second Orianna, as a champion that relies heavily on wombo combo to work? Why do you increase his clunkiness even though the major point of his first, S4 rework, was to _elliminate_ that. And the worst part is that his damage got actually buffed so if we complain about all the clunkiness added to his kit, you can just say "But these changes are actually pure buffs, just look at numbers!". Pity that numbers aren't everything. --- *EDIT1: When I shook all the salt off me I realised these changes are probably aimed at enabling him to choose between Q and E max, and specifically, between Q focused tanky skirmisher mage and E focused glass cannon teamfight monster. Q no longer scales with levels, E's damage got buffed so it can be a waveclear tool even when not maxed, Q shield scaling with mana... It actually makes sense, and while it makes me less salty because it opens new opportunities for Viktor, I am still not happy with the changes since it was The Laser that attracted me to champion and I greatly enjoy his current playstyle. Tanky toplane Viktor being viable would make me happy, but _not for such cost_. --- EDIT2: I toyed with him a bit on the PBE. He is so clunky now, that it feels like I had constant lags (and yes, I play a lot on PBE so I am able to differentiate actual lags caused by high ping from champion's clunkiness). It was a terrible experience. If anyone is interested how significant the delay on his lazor is, have this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al-NV58KHiY And this is a test regarding all the delays existing in his kit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmToemmkLh4 [And this is /r/viktormains thread I've made with calculations, math and analysis behind his changes.](https://www.reddit.com/r/viktormains/comments/4frhst/math_behind_viktor_pbe_changes_calculations_and/)
: Honestly, as a Xerath main, most of Rite of the Arcane's issues stem from the fact that it has garbage visuals. Please give me my orbital strike instead of water balloons. :P EDIT: Personal thoughts on everything: {{champion:9}} : You guys seem to have this one down. No arguments with any points. {{champion:45}} : This one is simple: look at W before anything else. That spell either needs to go or it needs synergy with his kit. {{champion:85}} : Basically same deal as Fiddle, no objections. I will note that although I don't play Kennan I think he has a lot of potential, so good luck. {{champion:115}} : You hit this one right on the mark, yet again. Please make this champion viable, I want my Master Arcanist Ziggs to see the light of day and get the recognition as the best 1350 skin it deserves. {{champion:101}} : Warning: I am a Xerath main. So here we go: * Agreed on ult. Again, give it better visuals. It needs to be League's Sunstrike, not a water balloon of pity and shame. * I feel Xerath Q is actually quite fair, and that it only hits perfectly every time when someone is just flat-out bad at dodging it. I am biased as a Xer main, but I can immediately tell the difference between someone who sucks at dodging Xer Q and someone who actually knows what they're doing. * Although, I will say that the exact maximum range of Q (specifically the tip) isn't displayed well by the ground indicator (and I get a lot of shots off on the exact tip of the spell due to this), so even something as simple as fixing that could help a lot with counterplay. * If you guys are really intent on making mages work with flat mana instead of mana regen (I disagree with this but that's beyond the point), make Xerath's passive restore a % of his mana pool, and possibly add mana scalings to his kit (perhaps ult and W) Tear Xerath has potential, but it needs help to get it off the ground. {{champion:50}} : No objections here. {{champion:34}} : On usability, maybe improve animations? I don't see a lot wrong with her from a mechanical standpoint TBH. {{champion:112}} : Honestly, I feel as if Viktor's core issue is that he's so generic. Some AoE damage, bit of CC, targeted spell that acts as a defensive ability as well. He was picked in the LCS for instant waveclear, but that isn't really his job anyway. I mean, what IS his job? {{champion:134}} : No objections. Minor visuals at Rank 5 of abilities could help with feel.
> [{quoted}](name=Zenthon127,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=a4Az9htA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-08T21:57:18.694+0000) > {{champion:112}} : Honestly, I feel as if Viktor's core issue is that he's so generic. Some AoE damage, bit of CC, targeted spell that acts as a defensive ability as well. He was picked in the LCS for instant waveclear, but that isn't really his job anyway. I mean, what IS his job? Viktor's main strength is _flexibility_. He is able to judge the situation, adapt and itemize depending on the situation on the field, and then fullfill either the role of heavy burst mage, DPS or teamfight utility. He does not really have a core build, his path greatly varies from game to game and every single of those is perfectly viable and entail completely different playpatterns. Xerath has superior range and poke but put him against anything decently mobile and he is useless. Cassiopeia has insane DPS but loses hard to burst if she can't eat her target fast enough. Lux can 100-0 any squishy, has crapload of utility and range, but terribly struggles against tanks. Viktor does not have those problems, he can adapt against anything. Ultramobile champions? Pure glass cannon Lich Bane route to delete them with point and click spell. Against burst matching yours? Build semi-tanky with Rylai+Abyssal/Zhonya, you're now tanky and still able to nuke any squishy. Against team full of tanks? Max your CDR for DPS, take LB and get Rylai for infinite kite. Against team full of squishies? Maybe Luden's to maximize your burst?
Rioter Comments
: Can we please give Viktor a new skin ?
Surgeon Viktor, pretty please? It makes me mad as hell that he and Ahri got released at the same day and she has now like, 6 skins compared to his 3, where one is legacy.
SIayton (NA)
: As a Diamond, Silver elo is surprisingly hard.
It's probably because you've got used to how the games are played on higher elo. Silver is an entirely different world as I also learned the hard way, having roughly 50% win ratio on Silver II smurf account while main peaked at Diamond IV. If you're the player focused primarily on shotcalling, objective and vision control or main team focused champions, you're going to have a hard time unless you change your way of playing to adjust to different elo. For example, I've had a game where I was pretty fed as Viktor, but only me as my team was severly underfed. I've asked them to not engage into a fight as my ult was down. Unfortunately someone engaged and my team got wiped, with only me as a last man standing. I've waited for my ult to go off CD and did a quadra kill. Literally two seconds later my team surrendered :D And you know what, it wasn't really my team's fault. I can't blame my teammates for playing like Silvers in a Silver game, I can only blame myself for not adjusting to the Silver level of play. If my team tends to engage into infavorable teamfights that only I can win for them, maybe I shouldn't play the pick game and waste my insane AoE potential to elliminate one guy. Maybe I shouldn't waste time to write on chat that I have no ult so please no engage, as noone seemed to register that information anyway. Or maybe I shouldn't stick strictly to backline, as being more in front would scare my enemies away from my team. All the things I've did were right and would earn us victory with more coordinated, higher elo team, but due to how the Silver elo works it was simply ineffective. Adapt, or be removed.
: Some questions about Viktor(Lore)
He attended a prestigious university and had a private laboratory so his family probably had money to fund him. Also since he is a genius, he surely received some kind of scholarship aimed for talented students during his younger years, even if he refused to take more money from people that deceived him the savings could be enough for him to continue his work towards the spread of glorious evolution. Right now, since he is basically the leader of a cult, he surely receives some donations.
: ***
Go away Jayce, we don't need more of your false propaganda.
: His whole character is about a guy that wants everyone to be like him and join his "glorious evolution". Sounds like a classic villian if you ask me, even he if is not one, he just needs a little push to be one.
Viktor was a man with ideals, but life kicked him in the ass s when Blizcrank got stolen. In result he has fallen into depression, but as an ambitious person he decided to actually do something with the bad emotions eating him alive, somehow came with the idea of Glorious Evolution and guess what - it helped him. No wonders he wants the world to know now. When he tried to save himself, he found the cure for the weak humanity and wants to share, I see nothing villanous in that, especially since he isn't forcing anyone to join him.
: Why dont people pick Cass into Viktor?
Cass is relatively short ranged and when range isn't an argument then nuke > DPS. Post 6 Viktor is able to delete Cass before she can even think about hitting with one E.
: His early game took a big nerf just last patch. I also main him, and since 5.16 I'm having a lot more trouble than I used to. They nerfed his weakest point, while not really fixing the actual problems people have laning against him.
I disagreed with the "this is false" statement. However, after a few days of experimenting with runes and builds, I have to admit that I see little to no difference. Maybe because my experience with a champion is so high (~700 games) so I was able to adapt quite fast.
: "IF My champion gets played in the lcs they will be nerfed hard"
: Viktor needs to be gutted.
Lol, his ult lost its silence like a year ago you know. And to deal instant 1k damage with his R he would need 1100 AP. His slow isn't instant and stun needs 1.5s to proc. Your post gave me a good laugh, for a moment I thought you're a troll, but then I saw you're just bronze.
: Diamond 5 is complete shit, I would get like 15 lp a win and lose 25 even though I had like 30 more wins than loses and positive MR. now im just playing w.e after I got demoted cause climbing out of D5 is literal hell with the lack of cares and stupid LP CLAMP.
I don't understand that as well... Got to D5 with 58% win ratio (80% during the last 20 games that got me there) and suddenly +14 lp for a win, -21 for a lose. Just, what
Proelium (NA)
: Instant Tilt
{{champion:238}} . As a Viktor main, I can't play against him for life. And the amount of people that harrassed me because "How is it even possible to lose lane as Viktor vs Zed, JUST DROP YOUR W UNDER YOU and that's all", while it's like the biggest lie in LoL and it's actually _him_ countering _me_, only made it stronger. {{champion:1}} because she is a child and I hate children. My hate to her is so strong, that even the Annie Bot in Coop vs AI games makes me angry, lol {{champion:105}} because annoyin gplaypattern, annoying looks, annoying emotes... And that new skin. God. I have a strong urge to ragequit every time I see that face.
: So I just got out of ranked
If I'm support and my ADC starts even slightly blaming me, I instantly mute him. Period. My game experience became much, much better when I learned to do that. Seriously, mute button is a blessing in cases like that, don't be afraid to use it. If someone uses the chat to spit the venom he won't say anything remotely useful later as well, so you aren't losing anything valuable and keep your morale.
: Viktor has a total of 3 skins. His 2 release Skins and then Creator Viktor. (Prototype and Full Machine Viktor are his 2 release skins)
Prototype is legacy now, so technically he has only two skins. I'm all for a new one.
: Be honest, if you didn't spend so much money on this game, would you quit?
No, I love this game and I would willingly spend more money on it but I'm poor now.
: What Does Your Main Eat?
GLORIOUS EVOULTION NEEDS NO FOOD.
333lom (EUNE)
: Viktor nerf in a wrong place
I did some math regarding oneshotting the caster minions, here's the conclusion http://i.imgur.com/fme8jDm.png This is a perfect scenario, ie. you don't lose even a slight bit of experience what is impossible since you have to back for that Hex Core; hence the level 7-8 are not marked green, because the damage is just at the edge. That means that oneshotting caster minions with the PBE changes will be possible not earlier than at level 9.
Arcyvilk (EUNE)
: That's why I'm starting to think that rushing E upgrade won't be viable anymore. Because of lower AP it will only destroy your own farm in early stages of the game leaving the casters on like 10 HP. Rushing the whole PHC is a bad idea as well because of its level scaling. I believe it would be better to rush another item now - for example Luden's, the passive won't be so useless anymore, working _a bit_ like the mini E upgrade - and _then_ going E upgrade. Prototype HC providing mana now would help a bit with the lack of mana item. But I need to do the more precise math.
OK, I did the math. This is a table showing how much AP you need to oneshot casters with or without Hex Core; the point was to justify if rushing anything else than E upgrade could be more efficient. http://i.imgur.com/TOTRZym.png
Rioter Comments
Cardmant (EUW)
: Is there actually a reason to play ranked?
- matchmaking is better, _theoretically_ every player in the game is on a similar skill level - if you git gut and climb you have a boost to your e-peen
: As someone who mains Viktor I'd be the first to tell you that he needs a nerf. It's not because he made it to LCS, it's because he's been incredibly strong for months and people are only just catching on. That said, I agree that the nerf is totally wrong. Viktor's problem is that his midgame is obscenely strong, and this comes mainly from the fact that the base damage on his Q scales with his level instead of the spell's rank, unlike almost every other ability in the entire game. The result is that for a bunch of the game, Viktor effectively gets an extra maxed ability on top of his E, which makes his midgame damage pretty stupid. Make his Q damage scale with rank instead of level and his midgame should be more reasonable. If he still needs nerfs after that, *then* maybe they can touch the hex core a bit.
But don't you think that nerfing his greatest strenght would make him pretty mediocre? His early game is weak, his late is very risky because of his range and lack of mobility, so nerfing his mid game would remove the thing he thrives at. That would leave him with three stages of the game where he really isn't much better in comparision to other champions. Everyone needs the strengths to be viable.
: > [{quoted}](name=Arcyvilk,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cR82FEih,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-08-09T15:51:32.784+0000) > > Actually it's the other way around. Since HC no longer gives flat AP, rushing it is no longer justified. You can literally sit on E upgrade indefinitely, even till level 15 when Perfect Hex Core breaks even with the live instance. On the other hand, it makes the mark one hex core totally fucking worthless in terms of gold efficiency, which means that you're either forced to take a gold disadvantage by buying it and not getting nearly as many stats per point of gold as your opponent, or rush an item that's actually worth the money you spend on it and have an incomplete kit.
That's why I'm starting to think that rushing E upgrade won't be viable anymore. Because of lower AP it will only destroy your own farm in early stages of the game leaving the casters on like 10 HP. Rushing the whole PHC is a bad idea as well because of its level scaling. I believe it would be better to rush another item now - for example Luden's, the passive won't be so useless anymore, working _a bit_ like the mini E upgrade - and _then_ going E upgrade. Prototype HC providing mana now would help a bit with the lack of mana item. But I need to do the more precise math.
: How many augments is Viktor "forced" to rush with this change? He gets 180 AP and 450 mana at 18 compared to 168 and 500 but losing the base ap may make it harder to justify buying anything else before finishing the hex core.
Actually it's the other way around. Since HC no longer gives flat AP, rushing it is no longer justified. You can literally sit on E upgrade indefinitely, even till level 15 when Perfect Hex Core breaks even with the live instance.
333lom (EUNE)
: I literally agree with everything you wrote. That's why I named the thread as the nerf in a wrong place. If he *had* to be nerfed, he could have been nerfed in a different way, not here in his early game where he's the weakest already. If his upgrades depended on levels, the nerf would have been much easier to take. But they're not, they're dependent on gold. If you don't have enough gold to buy them, you're out. His upgraded E is the only way he can farm safely, and it didn't occur to me that problem with leaving minions with 1hp and being lost like that. This could be a serious problem. Assassins are being buffed again. And he's getting gutted because people saw him in the LC$? Nobody even knew his name several months ago. Nobody complained. It takes nerve to play him against a mobile-energy based assassin or a long-ranged mage or a hyper mobile mage or whatever, without going 0/10 even now, and after the nerfs it'll be only for the mains. But I'll take everything, if that means that he'll fall back to the dark pit of oblivion. Him being picked in the stupid LC$ is the only reason all of this is happening. If Riot balance team could just read what you wrote here.
I believe that nerf follows Riot's most recent tendence to emphasise weaknessess and strenghts. His early game was rather on the weaker side, so they decided to push it even more. I made a thread regarding Vik nerfs on another forum and people's suggestions were terriffying. They suggested lowering the lazor speed, shifting the instant ult damage to DoT or nerfing his ratios because "burst too high". When I acknowledged what other players think about Machine Herald I got to the conclusion that Riot actually considers him a pretty balanced character. They didn't change the way his abilities work so they consider it OK, nor his ratios, so they are OK with the burst (let's be honest, insane burst is his niche). They decided to nerf Hex that got ommitted in 5.13 patch so it's kinda needed to put it on par with other AP items. I just wonder if there isn't better way to nerf it, for example changing its price (now, as NLR costs 1250 gold he is no longer forced to endlessly save gold for consecutive power spikes, so making the first upgrade 100-200 gold more expensive would be justified in my opinion. Hmm... Or maybe not, it would make saving against bad matchups insanely painful... No, no, take it back :D) or shifting the flat AP to AP per level; or even better, shifting flat mana to mana per level... It would be nerf as well but a bit less hurtful.
: Reasons to play other mages over azir and viktor.
None. GLORIOUS EVOLUTION ABOVE ALL. Seriously, I never saw any reason to l2p any other mage besides Viktor till he reached permabanned/permapicked status and I got forced to play something else.
: Can we talk about adding a bit more counterplay to Annie?
Imo her passive should be completely reworked. Yes, she can't have it up all the time if she wants to farm/poke, but it creates a danger zone around her of roughly 600 units, further widened by Flash range (that is up every 3.5 min with Summoner's Insight and Distortion). It's not a healthy scenario, especially since her entire kit is build solely around things that got removed from other champion's kits because they were toxic. Veigar's Flash+E combo too obnoxious? Ryze's point and click Q too hard to play against? Viktor's silence on instant ground-targeted ult has no counterplay? Well if you miss all those you still can play Annie! Till she gets changed, take my piece of advice: cleanse really works wonders against her, if you are able to predict her flash stun combo (because of her low range, she usually is pretty predictable unless she goes Sweeper and camps in unwarded brushes). Picking very long range mage is usually effective as well.
: Remember when playing Viktor got you reported?
Yeah, I do. And now when I've made celebratory thread after hitting Diamond maining him I got accused for abusing an OP champ. Sad times, really.
: Umm Riot, why the sudden removal of all the flat ap from viktor's hex core?
All these missocnceptions about his late game "getting better"... What if I told you that: - he already overkilled squishies late game. So in what world is that 18 additional AP going to make any difference? - it adds about 40 damage on full combo. ~60 if we count the full R DoT. Yay, so much damage! - he lacks mobility, range and CC. When he gets caught trying to get in range it won't matter if he has 168 or 180 AP. Viktor has insane power level during late game, that's true, but it becomes equally insanely risky for him and the graph showing his win ratio to game lenght mirrors that. http://i.imgur.com/GpxZyBH.png And, for the optimistic finale, I'll ask you all supporting nerfs one question only: where have you been nine months ago, when there were like three Viktor players on whatever server? Why noone cried for nerfs back then? Why every time I picked Viktor I got _flamed to oblivion_? You are aware that since the rework he was like that _all the time_, but noone acknowledged that because he wasn't played on a _freaking LCS_? Learn to think for yourself people.
333lom (EUNE)
: Viktor nerf in a wrong place
I sincerely don't know what should I think about these nerfs... On the one hand - I love Viktor and, in my honest opinion, he doesn't deserve nerfs. His obnoxious burst is balanced by lack of CC, range or mobility that is so easy to abuse. Can anyone enlighten me why noone cried about how OP he is half a year ago? Or why people abused me for picking "shit champion" when I could go OP Xerath or OP Zed? Literally nothing, besides a few bug fixes, changed since his rework. NOTHING. Then why suddenly he received so much hate? On the other hand, soloQ mirrors LCS hype. At least in higher elo there is a tremendous amount of people banning (he bears 22% ban ratio right now in Plat+ division) or picking him just because FotM. I was able to pick Viktor every time I got mid all the way from Silver to Diamond; now I am basically not able to play my favourite champion anymore (got to play him in soloQ exactly 9 times during the last two months) and I am forced to watch all these petty meta humpers that pick the champion _not because they love the champion_, but because a few Korean pros won a LCS game as Vik. And it makes me furious. I hate that attitude and I hope that all these guys will dissappear in a cloud of ashes after the nerfs. Now about the nerfs themselves. I was actually prediciting Hex Core nerfs. The thing is, that in 5.13 patch the core AP items got changed and HC was left untouched. That indeed made Viktor a bit stronger than before, especially combined with the additional 5% AP from the reworked Rabadon. Let me copy what I wrote in another thread on another forum > When max-maxed, Hex Core gives 168 AP. Even before that point the item is insanely strong, especially when combined with the buffed Rabadon. Let's say you've got both Hex Core mk-2 and Rabadon at level 13. It's 5500 gold "build", giving by itself (120+105)*1.35=304 AP. When we take all stats into consideration, we have 5500 gold "build" with stats worth of 7202.8 gold without even taking the two ability upgrades into consideration. Congratulations, we just saved the NLR+Amplifying Tome worth of gold and still have more AP from that. > Everyone knows how beautiful Viktor scales with AP. When we'll take also the standard runes/masteries/Doran into consideration (what leaves us with ~380 AP overall with two items build) we can clearly see that the very existence of Hex Core just dooms him to powerspike a bit harder than other midlaners, even when he isn't going the glorious Rabadon rush build. So I understand why their nerfs address particulary Hex Core; however, I don't think they did it good. If they did it right, they would just put it on par with other AP items changes so he reaches the state before the 5.13 patch. But that nerf is... Well. It's bad. Firstly - his early game _isn't_ as good as people make it out to be. Sure, he has his shield. But he doesn't have range. He doesn't have CC nor mobility. It's so easy to abuse. Early game junglers, that are out of meta anyway, make his live living hell. There are a lot of matchups where going into AA range is just, let's say euphemistically, a _very bad idea_, sometimes lethal even. E upgrade allowed him to farm safely from range what was sometimes his only way to defend himself against likes of Fizz or LeBlanc. Now rushing E upgrade will make him more harm than good. Any of you heard about Ahri's Q syndrome? Yeah, that's exactly the fate that Viktor will meet. Leaving the minions with ridiculously low HP so last hitting them in any way becomes impossible. Since only two of his basic abilities deal damage he will lose around half possible CS in unfavored matchups and he won't be able to do literally anything about it. It seems that I wrote a huge wall of text so I'll stop here. I'll just add that I miss the times when you met another Viktor and could be completely sure that he is a main. It didn't happen too often but the amount of roleplays made was unbelievable. And now? It's only FotM. I hate to see my beloved champion nerfed but well... I'll take it if it only will elliminate all the _pathetic meta humpers_.
: No, I play *as* him, and I can bully almost every matchup (outside a few very strong bullies), like I've been able to do since before his rework last year.
Umm... You are level 22? Link your main account or noone will take seriously whatever you say...
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Arcyvilk

Level 64 (EUNE)
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