: i Have play him a couple og times and i say that you need to land everything while they ignore you to maximixe damage. If you get hit by W get back for couple of seconds, he used his e to proc W that means he has no escape so punish him hard in fact in 18-12 secs dependin rank and cdr. If you cant dodge or sidestep and be behind minions to block his q then sorry it not the issue he is strong ( he needs lots of items, althoigh i do believe his W should refund 40 mana to 50 mana scaling by rank not 60) its you havent lear yet how to play against. I suggest to try play more games as Ezreal and you will see its isnt that bongers as you describe. Also they are champs in the CrssXER post where they are more bongers than ezreal and can delete him in 1-2 secs.
why does he get structure damage and waveclear? last I checked, it was one of the ways to counter him in lane. hard shove into his tower, so has to concentrate on farming and not dueling.
CrossXer (EUNE)
: {{champion:103}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}}
{{champion:103}} got nerfed, but what broke her were the buffs to E, Q and passive change. {{champion:84}} was reworked by CertainlyT. {{champion:245}} is fine, compared to the other shit running rampant. {{champion:28}} also got a double nerf this patch, only the %MR shred on her is a problem. {{champion:105}} is a piece of shit. {{champion:39}} is a mess. {{champion:24}} is a tanky bruiser with mobility and skirmish potential, who can carry and assassinate entire teams. {{champion:38}} is only strong cause FF + TWT + dark seal. the sustain negates his early game weakness. with TWT bnerfed on PBE, he should be fine. {{champion:55}} same as ekko. {{champion:141}} same as ekko. {{champion:121}} buffed cause $$$$$$$ {{champion:7}} revert was a HUGE mistake. even if reverted, she'll be a problem. {{champion:64}} same as ekko. {{champion:11}} I accept defeat. {{champion:76}} is completely fine. how is she broken???? {{champion:56}} same as ekko. {{champion:80}} isn't a problem, gets countered by illaoi, garen, basically any champ with decent sustain. {{champion:107}} revert was a huge mistake. even if reverted, he'll be a problem. {{champion:35}} is a piece of shit. {{champion:91}} is a piece of shit. {{champion:29}} is a piece of shit. {{champion:254}} is completely fine. how is she broken???? {{champion:5}} same as ekko. {{champion:157}} was created by CertainlyT. {{champion:238}} is a piece of shit.
Rioter Comments
: Let's be clear here: Kayn is not OP
Base kayn is fine right now, and so is SA. both do well when ahead, bad when behind. the only exception seems to be rhaast, but that's cause of the meta, where he is one of the very few champions left who can extend fights without getting blown up (base and SA don't have that "privilege") his burst is actually almost equal to base, and obviously lesser than SA. but his survivability makes him stand out in this meta. if the meta changed to like a tank meta or something, rhaast wouldn't be nearly as strong as he is now. all that needs to be done is slightly (again, just **SLIGHTLY**) reduce his passive healing in rhaast form. **perfectly balanced, as all things should be. **
: On a personnal level, while the design is... It could be way better (we all know why, I don't mind Kaisa being someone who didn't got horribly murdered by the void, I feel they could have make her suit really more... organic/kinda like a monster, and promote that the girl under it is still sane/safe. Kinda like a Samus Aran situation, I feel they missed their opportunity to do the 'beauty' stuff along with this the theme)./ But I really like her story or who she is. It REALLY change of fucking character being depressive mess with ADHD who are like "I saw war/saw some stuff". I want people who get to be positive, who want to do better, I want more variety of reaction when people are confronted to the unspeakable (especially when Kaisa only touched like the freaking border of the void, contrary to Kass or Malz technically). As a kit, honestly, I feel it is just a matter of number tuning. Really. I agree her kit is kinda generic but I feel riot suceeded (I know it sound weird to say "Suceed" with Kaisa XD) to make an ADC that can have a REAL flexibility in her build and is actually a true hybrid. You really can play her AP, you really can play her on-hit and she can be play AD too (even if it is the less efficient build now). I really think it is just a matter of her passive number being too high, people talk about her R shield but I don't think it is truly an issue. It is just that her scaling and base number are very high on her passive, it make guinsoo REALLY efficient and it make her AP build scale VERY fast. It is also why you see some Kaisa get so huge, if she snowball, her current kit make her scale into midgame like a madwoman. Nerf the strength of her scaling and I think she will be good. I really feel the ideas they have to tune her passive on the PBE will help, it will certainly help more than people think.
what I hate about her is that she's a late game champion (atleast that's what riot wants her to be) but she hits 6 and dashes with a shield (whose value is sorely underestimated) to all in and kill me (and she can cause Q + passive). even without balance talk, she's not exactly showing a personality. maybe she could have a different perspective on the void from Kassadin and Malzahar. something along the lines of "the same hammer that shatters glass, forges steel" kinda thing. and please, PLEASE, **DO NOT SAY** riot succeeded on kai'sa. they missed the mark they set by miles. the only thing they got was a flexible build path, in exchange for an overloaded mess of a champion, that left both it's players (me inclusive) and others frustrated.
: This post is such a mess like all whiny post here. "Better player loses cause the ennemy team has someone like Kaisa", I have watched almost all game for Day one and almost all the game from Day Two and I can assure you any team who won was the better team. You don't suddenly loose a TF because "Kaisa is broken", pros are pros, they have a functionnal brain contrary to other people here and they know how to strategize and also try to get their winning condition to work. If you loose, it mean you did something wrong, end of the story. If your team comp is weaker late, it mean you failed at getting your win conditions before. If your team has no front line and you let Kaisa DPS you in a choke point, it is your bad. If your ADC is getting zoned by two tank, it mean something was wrong in the way you picked up the fight. And let's not talk about the draft. EVERY world had some huge pick/ban champion, I feel people don't even get why Urgot is banned outside of his obvious strength atm. Not like he is an incredible flex pick with few bad MU. Did you note Syndra was blind pick almost all the time for mages too? Why do you think it is the case? Also talking about your boy Yorick when Yorick had other issues that has NOTHING to do with worlds or sh*t like that XD Ah Board, never change. Ask anyone who know how the high level work (you know, about tempo, about powerspike, about setting up wave, about not letting waves go to waste so your team economy doesn't fall down, about vision war) if it looked like soloQ. It is nothing alike, get the f*ck out of here with your BS.
I get ur perspective man. it's just that kai'sa is far from balanced. she neither has the right kit nor numbers. with all the hype that was created - a better version of vayne, the whole void event ( when rift herald was about to be replaced with baron, a void projectile would hit it) players felt like she should have been developed a bit more. she ended being just a generic ADC, albeit owerpowered. her VO was generic, her BA skin was just a copy of PROJECT vayne . it seems like they released this champion for the sake of releasing a champion. that's why a lot of players (me inclusive) are frustrated. she's just a heap of balance and visual problems.
iiGazeii (NA)
: The New Pyke Changes
is it just me or is pyke, a champ released like 2 months after kai'sa, more balanced than kai'sa herself????
: Cait´s range is already immense and a massive pain to most, buffing it further would be hella unfair without gutting her damage for it.
her niche is that she trades reliable damage for high AA range. her Q is a skillshot that is mainly used for poke/farming. her W can be easily avoided ( as OP said, ud have to be on spectrum to walk on it ) her E and R are, well, worthless ( unless u apply **VERY** specific conditions ) the only source of reliable damage that Caitlyn has is headshot proc ( not even that high ) so u could nerf that. what I suggested were changes her eventual update. she doesn't even fit her theme. what kind of **SHERIFF** has a kit like that????? jhin fulfills the sniper theme better than she does by miles. I get that he's more artistic, compared to the more calculative Caitlyn, but the kit just doesn't mesh well with what she's supposed to do. honestly, I don't have any ideas on the update, but riot should probably look at tweaking her entire kit.
: Caitlyn
cait's core issue was that she was completely different form the rest of the ADC roster. and from a certain perspective, she basically had the strengths of both draven and tristana, without the weaknesses. she starts of strong in the early game, falls off in the mid game, and ends up as a strong late game champion. no other champion in the **ENTIRE ** roster had that. that's why balancing her was so difficult. buff her, and she ended up neglecting the mid game. nerf her, and all stages of the game feel like mid game to her. in my opinion ( as a lvl 5 caitlyn ) she should be reworked partially. her identity should be **"THE SAFEST ADC"** so increase her auto range to 700 revert the AA animation nerf and the ult just needs a major rework
: Keeping it short: 1) Ekko has hard cc. Rengar has hard cc (I mean I'm considering him an assassin but UGH...). LB has hard cc. Ahri's like 50% assassin and has hard cc. Evelynn has hard cc. Shaco has hard cc. Nocturne...does he even count? Anywho, he has hard cc. Assassins can have hard cc. Akali's hard cc is, once again, the least offensive in this respect in comparison to other assassins. 2) Akali's micro-stun is on her R1, not her E.
1) Well, Ekko plays more like a specialist than a flat-out assassin. (or should play) Rengar is, as I said, a diver. LeBlanc, well, nah, I don't want to curse. ahri is a MAGE. there is no such thing as a 50% assassin in the game. and her charm is blocked by anything. also, her design is well, weird. Evelynn well, it's a charm. plus, she is an exception. but ill take it. noc and shaco aren't well designed (same goes for almost every ASSASSIN in the game right now). speaking of which, none of the champs u listed are well designed (ekko being closest) and don't fulfill their themes. also, from a logical standpoint, assassins have (should have) high to decent burst damage (although skill based) decent to high mobility low to decent utility and access to soft CC (slows) so why do they need hard CC tacked on top of it??? 2) thanks for the mention, sry about the mistake. just edited it.
: I've given it long enough: I don't understand the hate for Akali
Well, I agree with each and every one of your points, except this - > She's actually able to be played in pro games, where most assassins that aren't 1-shot machines don't get play. {{champion:7}} , {{champion:107}} , {{champion:55}} , {{champion:105}} , {{champion:555}} , {{champion:76}} , {{champion:238}} , and even {{champion:121}} have been played in pro games time to time, with leblanc as the most played midlaner, because the pros understand what Riot didn't - **THE REVERT WAS A HUGE MISTAKE** honestly, they should just re-revert her, and even then she'd be a problem. she just doesn't deliver on her "illusionist" thematic enough. as for your points on akali, I'm fine with every single part of her kit, except one, and it's not the shroud. that is actually fine. yes it does break the rules of stealth laid out by riot, but it's fine. gives her a unique theme -- "**the showoff assassin**" (I THINK) **I hate her E microstun**. I've been playing league for quite a while, and I've grown to understand one thing - 0.1s can mean the difference b/w life and death and assassin don't need OR deserve hard CC, even in the slightest. so why does akali? {{champion:107}} sacrifices mobility for a root (he is a diver anyways) {{champion:555}} is a support assassin, with 2 telegraphed hard CC's. All Riot needs to do is remove the microstun, and she'd be the most balanced assassin as of now. as for her design, it's the closest to a "perfect assassin". in my idea - assassins should have long cooldowns, especially on ultimates. (no exceptions at all) no access to hard CC at all, through kits, items, or runes. (exceptions - burst mages, support assassins) even then, max 1 hard CC maybe a little bit of slows (min 0, max 2), and they shouldn't be on AA's or targeted abilities. (exceptions - red buff) decent to high mobility on at least one ability, which shouldn't deal damage on its own, like {{champion:91}} E high to decent damage, but gated behind skillshots and/or long CD's. I've worded the last 2 in such a way that damage and mobility should be inverses of each other for assassins. Edit - the microstun is on R1, not E. sry I messed that up.
Pheobos (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shleelpboy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=wl7cjAoy,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-03T02:56:06.009+0000) > > well we will see soon.. Ahri Spirit Rush (R) cooldown increased from 110/95/80 to 130/105/80 Nami Ebb And Flow (W) heal lowered from 65/95/125/155/185 to 60/85/110/135/160 Sion Base HP regen lowered from 1.8 to 1.5 Dark Harvest (Domination Keystone) Bonus damage lowered from [40 - 80] to [20 - 60]
> [{quoted}](name=Pheobos,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=wl7cjAoy,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-10-03T13:56:43.108+0000) > > Ahri > Spirit Rush (R) cooldown increased from 110/95/80 to 130/105/80 > > Nami > Ebb And Flow (W) heal lowered from 65/95/125/155/185 to 60/85/110/135/160 > > Sion > Base HP regen lowered from 1.8 to 1.5 > > Dark Harvest (Domination Keystone) > Bonus damage lowered from [40 - 80] to [20 - 60] but there are so many other champions ({{champion:31}} , {{champion:104}} , {{champion:84}} , {{champion:145}} , {{champion:555}} etc.) who need nerfs, and are arguably much stronger than the ones u mentioned (except sion). the only things these nerfs accomplish is decrease the viability of both nami and ahri, who already struggle in this meta.
: I don't think this makes her scarier in any way when she hits level 6, it's just giving her the same tools she has now, but with a little more damage and higher cooldown on her spell thief (not sure if you knew this, but it already has a super low cooldown of 0.25 seconds). Also I don't get the distinction between ONCE and WHEN. Those mean the same thing. The clear points she can be played against are basically the same, the enemy team already knows when and what spells she gets, and can zone her away from those spells with spells of their own. Zoe got an ignite from a balloon? You know she's gonna go for it, so why not throw your CC on top of it when she goes near it? Your idea for changing her spell thief is basically gutting it. That's not what I was looking to do with this change. If the ability had a 20 second cooldown, it would have to have WAY more power attached to it, and there's not really a way to do that without making her untouchable with movement speed or broken in terms of free, reliable damage. Also increasing the cost to 65 mana would hurt her a lot. Not being able to get summoners she already has would also be a pain, since you could no longer get a heal when your heal is down, or an ignite when your enemy tries to burst you and fails, etc. You're pretty much imposing a lot more restrictions on the ability than it needs, and ones that would feel absolutely awful to play with.
Well, as I said, I was being a little greedy.... {{sticker:sg-lulu}} although all I wanted to do was:- remove RNG (honestly for me, this applies to the entire game) make R cast cost something or the other in a teamfight, most of the time, ATLEAST 4-5 summoners and active items are used. with no restrictions, no one on the enemy team will use anything for fear of it backfiring, resulting in a win for zoe's team before the teamfight even starts. anyways, i'll be happy with the changes you proposed. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Am I the only one who thinks Zoe's W and R should be swapped?
Nice changes tbh, although this would make {{champion:142}} A LOT scarier ONCE she hits 6, not WHEN. The difference stems from the fact that once she hits 6, she effectively has a no cooldown spell thief, with its RNG elements. There’s no clear point in the game AFTER 6 where she can be played against. Moreover, with the RNG, it’s impossible for both players/opponents to play around her ult. I would change it like this: - R – Spell thief Cost – 20 (or) 65 mana (whichever is more balanced) Cooldown – 20s (or more) Passive – Wheeeee – Zoe can steal active item spells (AIS) and summoner spells (SS) when any champion within 2000 units of her casts one. These casts have unique drawbacks – She can’t steal AIS/SS that she already has. (no extra {{summoner:4}} or {{summoner:14}} ) Once she casts an AIS, the next cast can only be an SS and vice versa. The rest of the ability, namely the buffs she gets, can be exactly as you suggested. If she ends up being a little weird bcos of the 1st drawback, maybe switch it with this – She can only get utility effects from her AIS/SS (no dmg) Also, I’ve never really seen the ‘mischievousness’ in her kit, which could have been put to good use in her E, but meh, maybe that’s just me misinterpreting and being a little greedy. Anyhow, take my upvote. Cheers.
Shukr4n (EUW)
: since riot promote diveristy your idea would lock them into their "role". for me it s a no
well, right now, there IS no diversity. I want ADCs to be locked into a specific playstyle, so that each does something different, maybe through future changes to the champions. as of right now, this is just a suggestion to make it easier to communicate for balance changes.
Rioter Comments
saltran (EUW)
: The thing is that I saw a heavily upvoted coment on other thread claiming that Tristana was back on the meta, so I looked at the stats she has on soloQ and I have to agree: She's such a strong champ that needs huge nerfs, absolutely legit just look at this disgusting soloQ numbers and the marginal play she has on pro play, we cant afford to let Tristana in this busted state for more time, please nerf her.
it'd be the worst feeling if riot read **this comment**, and then nerfed trist on the spot, instead of responding to the real balance talk.
: Addressing ADC's
i know im really late, but wow, this is a heavily-detailed post. nicely written, not just nerf all/buff all route, and best thing, it's not a RANT. now my thoughts :- the Escalation thing seems really interesting, although, since it only grants bonus AD, it would be REALLY GOOD on champions like {{champion:110}} , {{champion:21}} , {{champion:202}} , and other such AD casters, since they already rely on AD a lot for their dmg, but would end up gutting champs that mainly function on Crit/on-hit, like {{champion:18}} , {{champion:429}} , {{champion:85}} (ADC role), and it also be a MAJOR overhaul of the ADC class, which seems stable as of now, {{item:3095}} BS notwithstanding. so, maybe instead of REPLACING crit chance with escalation, what if we got the best of both worlds by ADDING escalation as an item-only stat to the game. this way, we have MORE ADC build diversity with crit chance, on-hit, and then Escalation, although the interactions b/w the latter 2 will hv to be looked at to make sure no ADC abuses both types of items. (make lethality melee only, and make escalation ranged only) as fas your 4 proposals go, i agree with all except the first, and i think you need to be careful with the 4th. as you said, leaving too many options for ADCs make it a bit absurd, but at the same time, if ADCs hv no defensive options, they become overly team reliant for protection, which wouldn't be healthy for the game. Guardian angel - defensive item against lethal burst(mostly when the enemy has 1-2 assassins/burst mages etc...) should only give armor and MR (like the previous iteration), but restore flat health, mana, and grant the champion the ability to move around while reviving({{champion:266}} can do it now, why shouldn't others) Mercurial scimitar - hybrid offensive/defensive item against high AP/CC enemy comps(mostly when the enemy has 1-2 tanks/control mages etc...) grants a little less AD than it does now, but more MR these should be the only 2 defensive items that ADCs tend to go for
: > [{quoted}](name=ronin99999,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lhwVZyfu,comment-id=000100010000000100020000,timestamp=2018-08-19T06:07:35.067+0000) > > i'm sry I cudn't get my head around the Q knockup/dmg thing. so, what u mean to say is that the 3rd cast of his Q knocks up and deals dmg based on his distance from the champion, where more distance means more dmg and more knock up time right?? interesting..... it works like Fizz's ult, the further away the target is when the get hit the higher up they will be knocked up. When Yasuo ults it deals damage based on high high the target was. So not only is the Q and Ult about position and range but its also about timing. This also takes into acount allied knock ups to, many players complain about how there are SO many knock ups in the game and for Yasuo that make's his ult too reliable. The fall damage mechanic that takes into account the height of a champion at the moment the ult was initiated also effects allied knock ups. This means Yasuo WON'T always want to use just any allied knock up because not all of them will give him a good amount of damage. Im think the duration of the ult in addition to the damage should scale with the hieght of the knock up. But it would be kinda cool to possibly see Yasuo's 3rd Q at max range have one of the highest knock ups which would encourage him to rely on his own knock up and less on allies, additionally if knock ups are timed correctly they will continually knock the targets higher anc higher, it would be cool to see people trying to play around with that to see the highest "highest" damage Yasuo's ult can get. > although, maybe it wud be better if the knock up and dmg scaled oppositely with range, for example, you get more dmg on 3rd Q the lesser distance there is between u and enemy champ, but u get more knock up time the more distance there is between u and enemy champ. this way, yasuo players might hv to decide between going closer to deal more dmg (dangerous), or staying farther (safer), in return for lesser dmg. well first i should mention that dmg i was talking about was dealing with the Ult. it works like this: 3rd Q knocks up target. Based on the range the target was hit they will get knocked up higher or lower. Yasuo ults. Yasuo's ult deals damage based on the hieght of the knock up using the fall damage mechanic. The idea you pose is an interesting one, and I am not sure how it would work. i think u misunderstand the reason as to why i designed the 3rd Q to knock up higher the further it goes; Yasuo being able to AA, E, Q, 2nd Q, and 3rd Q a target into the air for the ult isn't good or well designed combo and it doesn't have much counter play. Its really annoying for some melee champs because it feels like they can't do anything about. Additionally its REALLY unhealthy for a melee champ. Riot has stated that they believe melee champs that can easily just sit on a target and AA/use abilities isn't intereactive enough, thats why a lot of their melee champion designs have features that encourage them to put some distance between them and the target and play around with that. Due to this I think wholesale its better to encourage Yasuo to back up for the 3rd Q. If Q was set up with the version u thought it was then most Yasuo players would pick the more damage cause thats how they already play. It will create a more interesting pattern of close range and long range attacks. If you want theres away both our visions can be achieved. Just make the 3rd Q deal less damage than the 1st 2 Q's. > the fall dmg mechanic seems a nice touch, although in order to make it feel less overbearing, the dmg cud be distributed equally amongst all Airborne targets( the ult is more impactful in teamfights. sure > to compensate for these overall nerfs, his numbers on ult wud hv to be slightly buffed, but in the end, both players playing as/against yasuo would begin to like this champion more, so win-win for all. > > thanks for your suggestions always
nice, as I said, I cudn't get my head around the changes at first, so i probably misfired. so, let's make knockup duration and dmg scale with distance directly (more distance, more KD, more dmg), and add the fall dmg mechanic, where his ult deals more dmg to targets which are longer in the air, but in order to compensate, distribute this dmg to all knocked up targets. also, reduce the bonus ar pen he gets fm ult fm 15s to 5s, giving him a shorter window of strength in teamfights. also remove the escalating dmg on E. if he ends up too weak after these changes, his ar pen nerf and E nerf can be reverted. this way, when he's on top of his target, he doesn't get access to sure CC, his ult feels A LOT MORE impactful in teamfights, and his dmg doesn't feel overbearing/underwhelming. as i said, win-win for all.
: Janna Visual Update
wow, this is just..... amazing!!!! truly shows the "godlike" aspect of janna, and while I've never actually played her, I really like her potential as a character, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, but I don't think riot has done justice to either of those aspects. hopefully they'll see this and use it, if not the same one (for copyright reasons, or something like that). this masterpiece shows both the power and calmness of janna perfectly, in perfect sync with her personality (calma sa breeze, yet unpredictable as the wind). the staff design is top-notch.
: I like Storm Razor. It's a good example of how Crit (in general) should work. Not an endless RNG DPS increase, but an occasional burst in power. I vote we keep the item and rework crit (chance) as a a mechanic! (Bring on the down votes.)
I recently made a post about this, it's called EFFECTIVE crit chance, which is all about removing RNG in it. here's the link, if you'd like to check it out:- https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/LhjPQF4H-a-way-around-critrng
: > [{quoted}](name=ronin99999,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lhwVZyfu,comment-id=0001000100000001,timestamp=2018-08-16T12:07:51.624+0000) > > Okay then, when did my post suddenly shapeshift from a "I want to check whether my proposed balance changes make the game healthier" to a goddamn hate thread? like dude, I srsly outright said that I like his ideas/concepts/designs. i literally praised him for WW rework, and thresh (i forgot abt zyra, she is well designed too) BTW, my post has nothing to do with the META as it is now. they will (or should) always be strong to an extent, because of their high skill cap, but that cannot (should not) come at the cost of another player's gaming experience. tell me honestly, have you ever seen a player say "I love playing against Zoe" unsarcastically??? > my only point is that, due to their high skill cap, they should punish mistakes more and reward outplays more. right now it's basically > > E-Q (knockup) into R, a few crits, and ignite for good measure. yeah i came up with some Yasuo updates a while ago one of which included a scaling range for the knock up and damage. Close Range Q's shouldn't knock up. At Medium range Q knocks up a little bit and max range Q knocks up a lot. This makes the cancerous close range AA and Q's into Ult impossible, (because u can't dodge Q at zero range). Then add in a fall damage mechanic on his ult. The longer the targets were in the air the more damage they take. This would increase the amount of skill and counterplay for Yasuo. They didn't let Azir use his E knock up into R knock up so the same should go for Yasuo > my changes aim to give him a clear point(s) in the game where he can be shut down (weak laning phase, but good teamfighting, like a carry, or good laning phase, but cant do much in teamfights.) the problem with the 2nd part is that he was created to be good in teamfights, so i thought, was the good laning phase really necessary?? true > and to quote you "Learn that champion, seriously its that easy", are you really asking me to let go of my self dignity and play zoe, and oneshot a poor passerby? no thanks. > but srsly, the post wasn't made bcos they are CertainlyT champs, it was made to clear the air about all the hate the guy gets. he doesn't even deserve like 10% of it, but he gets it. i made this post so that the people who read the boards will understand it isn't exactly CertainlyT's fault that he gets so much hate. it's the numbers, and a few hidden interactions that just add to an overloaded kit. agreed
i'm sry I cudn't get my head around the Q knockup/dmg thing. so, what u mean to say is that the 3rd cast of his Q knocks up and deals dmg based on his distance from the champion, where more distance means more dmg and more knock up time right?? interesting..... although, maybe it wud be better if the knock up and dmg scaled oppositely with range, for example, you get more dmg on 3rd Q the lesser distance there is between u and enemy champ, but u get more knock up time the more distance there is between u and enemy champ. this way, yasuo players might hv to decide between going closer to deal more dmg (dangerous), or staying farther (safer), in return for lesser dmg. the fall dmg mechanic seems a nice touch, although in order to make it feel less overbearing, the dmg cud be distributed equally amongst all Airborne targets( the ult is more impactful in teamfights. to compensate for these overall nerfs, his numbers on ult wud hv to be slightly buffed, but in the end, both players playing as/against yasuo would begin to like this champion more, so win-win for all. thanks for your suggestions
Rioter Comments
Wuks (NA)
: Gameplay+, the newest way to discuss the game on the Boards
well, this is an exciting project. it goes to show that meaningful discussions b/w gamers can still happen. thanks a lot. hyped for its launch. btw, when are u planning on releasing this?
Antenora (EUW)
: {{item:3147}} - Melee only. {{item:3095}} - Ranged only.
well, stormrazor has become a 1st item rush on nearly every champ that can use it, and the ones that can't are completely forgotten (ashe), and on top of that, the item became broken on champs like yasuo, talon, etc. so I think at this point riot shd just remove this item completely, it just isn't a healthy addition to the game. and while they're at it, they shd probably revert IE and ER too.
: the only two over performers are Zed and Talon, theres no reason to nerf assassin items when the issue isn't item related, its Talon and Zed related. Yes Rengar, or Nocturne can still potentially 1shot you, but if youre an isolated squishy target in a game with a Rengar or Nocturne running electrocute, you deserve to lose because you don't know what youre doing to begin with.
well, the only AD assassins in the game who tend to rush duskblade are Zed, Talon, Rengar, Khazix, Noc, and shaco. and I think we both agree that rengar and shaco are fundamentally flawed (they don't fulfill on their vision of "the pridestalker" and "the ultimate joker". I know wukong uses it too, but he deserves a full scale rework (otherwise he will be nerfed into oblivion, and forgotten) did I miss any champ??? now, technically speaking, I buffed 1 out of the 3 premier assassin items, only clearly nerfing duskblade, by removing one of its 2 passives, (the changes to YG was only a slight nerf), and i'm even ready for a new lethality item (Got any ideas???) if the blackout passive is kept, fine(13:6 as of now, so....) if the nightstalker passive is kept, it should be melee only, and should last for a shorter time (<5s)
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: Why would you ever nerf domination more lul, that tree is weak af except for the keystones and Riot knows it. Theres like 5 out of the almost 50 meta champs that go Domination secondary because the other trees are just better. If anything, Duskblade should get nerfed.
domination "became" weak bcos in last patch, riot nerfed nearly every single strong rune in this tree (except electrocute, and even then it can be argued that it was a nerf), and I arguably slightly buffed sudden impact, relentless hunter, and zombie ward. I agree I might have nerfed EC a little too hard, ty for pointing it out, ill edit it. BTW, were u able to come up with any ideas for a new lethality item???
Rioter Comments
Kai Guy (NA)
: Most my response to you is about how to play around Yas. Everything else is directed to everybody else reading and not intended to be treated as a direct comment to you specifically or anything you said. The bit that's bolded and what's below is where that starts. The CT hate is a stupid cycle that's turned into something self sustaining. No other dev has to deal with their designs being treated like its toxic just because it ran a meta or had #s that got oppressive at some point. It does not seem to matter if Thresh is in a good spot now, the fact that he was once a top tier pick will be used in arguments to call him a problem and this holds true for {{champion:122}}. I don't think this is intended to be a I hate CT thread. To date what CT worked on is {{champion:51}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:143}}
what I want is for some rioter (perhaps CertainlyT himself) to take the time to read this, become relieved that the hate isn't directed at him (it's the champ) and be granted some power to dictate the types of changes made to his champions (same goes for all devs). this is bcos CertainlyT's champs were designed by him, he is the only one who would have known exactly what that champ should be (carry, burst mage, or tank), but the balance changes just seem to change that almost completely. I think if CT got more(but not complete) authority and power to dictate balance changes for his champs, maybe his vision for the champ cud be completely fulfilled. also, if he took time to think about some of the changes posted in this thread as a whole, and implemented a few, maybe the game would be healthier, and we could get over with the unnecessary CT hate train.
: Towers could be so much more dynamic than they are currently.
your changes are nice, both from a thematic and functional standpoint, although the nos. seem to be a bit too high, maybe make towers only get the HP/dmg, depending on lane which took first tower. for example if bot lane got 1st tower, top and mid shd get more dmg(prevents tower dives) if top lane got 1st tower, bot and mid shd get more HP(adc can't chunk tower down easily) if mid lane got 1st tower, bot and top can get both buffs(most played-around lane in game) if turrets still end up being weak, then:- Buff turrets resistances(more Armor and MR in early game, but scale down slowly and slightly as the game progresses) Turrets should only be dealt damage if the damage dealer is within the turrets’ attack range. (stops things like kindred and baron empowered cannon minions killing turrets from multiple screens away) Baron empowered minions should only be granted bonus resistances, nothing else. my first change would heavily increase early laning phase time, but wouldn't affect champions who rely on splitpush tactics to be relevant. my second change is self explanatory. my third change is to make the baron empowered champ the main dmg dealer, not the minions, the minions are just there to give more time for the champ to take down the turret.
Kai Guy (NA)
: So, if my advice is accurate 100% of the time then regardless of how generic you find it how is it not the goddam truth? Any immobile mage vs yas is a lossed lane or game eh? {{champion:45}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:34}} Are all inmobile and im entirely happy to take them into lane vs yas. I have confidence to outplay his kit with their kits in 1v1. My example is not force jungle yas, its to make him contest objective like dragons, or to force him to move to other lanes, mid game yas is not a tower pushing monster, roam and forcing 4v3 fights or a good gank snagging some kills, give your team the opportunity to push objectives, and 4 dudes on a tower are gonna drop it hella faster then yas can. If he sticks around mid, your gonna get more objectives. When I say make him use them badly, its entirely off you as a player. Force him to cast WW to prevent CC, Force him to use firstQ to cs and smack him with a trade he cant win. Don't Gank him and give him a free E to escape. I will admit I worded it poorly, let me be more clear. Its not about him miscasting, its about knowing his kit so that you play in ways the casts he can make at any time are less then ideal. Its the same generic advice that works for any champion, but for some reason are not doing this vs yas. How many times have you see your jungler run in from behind, giving him the ability to E Away from the teammate of said jungle, People engage when theres a fat minion wave rather then when its just 1-2 still up, people throw their entire kit into windwall, people don't break shield when he gives them opportunity's to because omg shield prevents damage why waste an auto! Players constantly show no understanding of what his kit does then show up bitching about how broken it is. This frustrates me. wanna talk about "generic" statements. How about a kit that "this is the kind of thing I don't want to play against, because while the enemy can relax and make frequent mistakes, I have to constantly concentrate, be on my toes, and not make even the slightest error, knowing ill die if I did." have you seen {{champion:53}} One Q lands = death {{champion:164}} One over extension, being alone, = death {{champion:28}} Walks into your lane and gets W off = death {{champion:105}} hits a R = death. Just saying its not a remotely exclusive CT issue, I hate when people act like it is. **Look folks even if you want to completely ignore the above conversation do me a solid and read the below before commenting.** Here is why I care, the CT hate is fucking stupid. Look there is nothing cant be fixed with number changes. Treating him as an exception is flawed, people hold previous iterations of his work up as examples why he is bad, when said champions end up in a decent spot, example{{champion:412}} for both in game balance and impact on game health. Something being problematic does not mean it is a problem for ever. If it was then Colt would be one of the most bitched about Dev in the game as he has created more Meta defining champions who run the game any time they are a strong pick. {{champion:81}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:1}} on top of the fact he was also to blame for creating some of the most hated champions in the game for their impact on gameplay. Its been over 5 years and my least favorite meta is still the Old AP {{champion:14}} for being the most fucking obnoxious mid meta I have ever seen. {{champion:17}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:53}} Yet I will never say he is awful at his job ( I personally enjoy a lot of Colts champions.) history has proven the designs can be fixed to be a more healthy state, that over time any problem is going to be solved one way or another. I never want to see any one say, oh well lets fire Hallam. I don't take to arms any time one of his champions is THE meta, despite the fact ez breaks the game 1-2 times a year or that Protect the Koggle is a game winning strategy the moment he is in the upper levels of viability. Yii gets hate threads every year, Every god dam year, and almost no one even knows the devs that made him. CT interacted with the community and got punished for it. The people who started the bandwagon of fk this dev got rewarded for it. The cycle of complaints about him as a dev typically miss the mark on whats problematic and have low or no quality. Its just upvote farming with no merit to helping people learn to play and thrive vs champions they dislike, with no reason for riot to take any one seriously, and with a overall negative impact on Red to community relations. Im not asking yo to like CT, just focus on being objective in targeting what the issue is, if a number is to high, how to fix a problem, and to not add pointless noise and clutter to conversations. When and If a champion gives you a hard time, Learn that champion, seriously its that easy.
Okay then, when did my post suddenly shapeshift from a "I want to check whether my proposed balance changes make the game healthier" to a goddamn hate thread? like dude, I srsly outright said that I like his ideas/concepts/designs. i literally praised him for WW rework, and thresh (i forgot abt zyra, she is well designed too) BTW, my post has nothing to do with the META as it is now. they will (or should) always be strong to an extent, because of their high skill cap, but that cannot (should not) come at the cost of another player's gaming experience. tell me honestly, have you ever seen a player say "I love playing against Zoe" unsarcastically??? my only point is that, due to their high skill cap, they should punish mistakes more and reward outplays more. right now it's basically E-Q (knockup) into R, a few crits, and ignite for good measure. my changes aim to give him a clear point(s) in the game where he can be shut down (weak laning phase, but good teamfighting, like a carry, or good laning phase, but cant do much in teamfights.) the problem with the 2nd part is that he was created to be good in teamfights, so i thought, was the good laning phase really necessary?? and to quote you "Learn that champion, seriously its that easy", are you really asking me to let go of my self dignity and play zoe, and oneshot a poor passerby? no thanks. but srsly, the post wasn't made bcos they are CertainlyT champs, it was made to clear the air about all the hate the guy gets. he doesn't even deserve like 10% of it, but he gets it. i made this post so that the people who read the boards will understand it isn't exactly CertainlyT's fault that he gets so much hate. it's the numbers, and a few hidden interactions that just add to an overloaded kit.
: > Keep ’s W, but make it so that she doesn’t get summoners or items that she already has access to. For example, she has flash and ignite. This should mean her W cannot give her a cast of the same flash and ignite. (And give it a cooldown of like 65 sec or something). And, keep the drops alternate. For example, if she got a summoner on her first use, then the next drop should give her an item only, and vice versa. Zoe will still be incredibly annoying even with these changes her E Q combo is old nidalee but with setup CC even if she is weak she can still nearly 1 shot squishies with this combo and she will still be un fun to play against because 1 wrong step means your life lategame, The RNG passive is also sitll going to be frustrating to deal with since she can still randomly get a tp, redemption, protobelt, or some other game changing effect within the first 5 minutes of the game > Change minimum stacks for from 5 to 6, give him less AD but a little more armor and MR(for durability), and make his E single target.(also decrease passive bleed dmg). For ult, remove the extra dmg per passive stack, and add a mana cost at rank 3, but make it an execute. this just turns darius into a pub stomper because to compensate for the fact your drastically nerfing his accessibility to damage and his total out put your giving him an ult that is far easier to use and has less setup required. So your lowering his skill ceiling and floor while nerfing his value in high elo, and compensating by giving him base stats, odds are he will be unviable near the top of the ladder while being ridiculously oppressive in low elo if these changes are implemented. I also think your drastically underestimating the amount of power your taking out, his lane is going to be weaker, his midgame teamfighting is going to be weaker, his late game is going to be weaker, he needs to build more damage to make up for the the loss in his passive, his utility is going to be lowered and his resets are going to cost most of his mana. This isn't a power shift or even a nerf to balance out an overtuned champ your just gutting him by nerfing every single part of his kit. > is a champion whose counterplay is based on window of opportunity (whirlwind, windwall, flow shield). Thus, change his q in that, the whirlwind deals only 50% of normal q dmg. Moreover, give his W an increased cooldown (like 50s or something, but it refunds 50% of the cooldown if it blocks an ultimate ability). Also remove the AD ratio on E (he gets unlimited mobility from it, why the dmg too). And when he casts his ult, he should be at the same place that his target is at, regardless of whether he is in tower range or not. (remove ability to crit champs too, like srsly he gets 100% with 2 items y is that necessary) I play top so I have no idea how yasuo interacts with ranged champs since windwall does nothing in top lane matchups but that does seem fair considering how game warping of an ability it can be and the ult change is something that should have happened when he was release, but the nerfs to his e and q drastically hurt his wave clear which can hurt alot since he doesn't itemize tiamat and I don't think he would enjoy having to buy static shiv to compensate. Kalista has 2 abilities that are healthy her q and her w everything else in her kit is oppressive as hell or cripples riots ability to balance her. Her passive hops invalidate a huge number of melee champs, the othsworn part of kalista's balance and her ult make her op as hell in pro play, and her E gives her unparralled objective control which also makes her invaluable in pro play. Kalista needs a rework her e can be kept if a cap is put on the number of spears she can put in a objective and her other basic abilities are fine but her ult and passive just make her impossible to balance
> Zoe will still be incredibly annoying even with these changes her E Q combo is old nidalee but with setup CC even if she is weak she can still nearly 1 shot squishies with this combo and she will still be un fun to play against because 1 wrong step means your life lategame, The RNG passive is also sitll going to be frustrating to deal with since she can still randomly get a tp, redemption, protobelt, or some other game changing effect within the first 5 minutes of the game then maybe change it so that she can get it only from champion summoner casts or active item casts, not from minions. as far as E-Q combo is concerned, shift some E dmg into Q(more possibilities of missing, thus less dmg taken), and make Q deal lesser dmg to non-champion(lesser waveclear potential) and remove dmg from W in that it only grants summoners and item actives which don't deal dmg (negates extra ignite, or extra protobelt), but keep the alternating aspect that I previously mentioned. > this just turns darius into a pub stomper because to compensate for the fact your drastically nerfing his accessibility to damage and his total out put your giving him an ult that is far easier to use and has less setup required. So your lowering his skill ceiling and floor while nerfing his value in high elo, and compensating by giving him base stats, odds are he will be unviable near the top of the ladder while being ridiculously oppressive in low elo if these changes are implemented. I also think your drastically underestimating the amount of power your taking out, his lane is going to be weaker, his midgame teamfighting is going to be weaker, his late game is going to be weaker, he needs to build more damage to make up for the the loss in his passive, his utility is going to be lowered and his resets are going to cost most of his mana. This isn&#x27;t a power shift or even a nerf to balance out an overtuned champ your just gutting him by nerfing every single part of his kit. sry abt darius, I might have overshot a bit too far. do u have any suggestions? feel free to mention > I play top so I have no idea how yasuo interacts with ranged champs since windwall does nothing in top lane matchups but that does seem fair considering how game warping of an ability it can be and the ult change is something that should have happened when he was release, but the nerfs to his e and q drastically hurt his wave clear which can hurt alot since he doesn&#x27;t itemize tiamat and I don&#x27;t think he would enjoy having to buy static shiv to compensate. if after said changes, yasuo ends up being too weak, they can revert the Q nerf, but the E nerf shd stay for the reason I mentioned. and he cant take runaan's or RFC, he shd choose bw pd for duel power or shiv for waveclear. >Kalista has 2 abilities that are healthy her q and her w everything else in her kit is oppressive as hell or cripples riots ability to balance her. Her passive hops invalidate a huge number of melee champs, the othsworn part of kalista&#x27;s balance and her ult make her op as hell in pro play, and her E gives her unparralled objective control which also makes her invaluable in pro play. Kalista needs a rework her e can be kept if a cap is put on the number of spears she can put in a objective and her other basic abilities are fine but her ult and passive just make her impossible to balance ty for the suggestions
Kai Guy (NA)
: I wont deny that there is merit that a lot of CT champs have mechanics that allow for them to overcome weaknesses and that that this is lacking in several other champions kits. Yet a lot of the way players chose to deal with this typically shows no understanding of said champions kits. Examples, Blowing your entire kit into windwall? That's a misplay. Calling Zoe R Mobility? Its not, its a range extension. Only her W provides mobility. Claiming that you cant see Akali under towers? or that shes Tower immune? Fucking hell man that's just Inaccurate. The issue as far as I can tell the issue consistantly is that you have to have a good understanding of his champions to properly out play them. Its a cop out in so many cases to claim OMG COMPLEX = OVERLOADED. In almost every ability simplification would make it stronger. If yas could just R any one with out the knock up? even if we reduced it ranges, removed it resetting his shield, got rid of some of the pen or damage, he would still be stronger because a point and click CC is a solid ability on any one. If akali passive did not give Ms, had no ring, had no range extension, all it did was enhance an auto after hitting an ability? That would be stronger. If thresh Q was just a Copy and paste blitz q? That would be stronger. I'm not trying to say his champions don't have to much in their kits, that's a conversation that can and should happen on a case to case baises, but what I want to say is just that the misconception that something complicated is better is overall an awful viewpoint.Complexity does not always make for overloaded. If complexity is done to provide checks and balances and requires player input and skill expression to hit a best case its usually less powerful then an similar simplification. Reliability is a strength for a champions kit. I feel the biggest issue is that CT does not make champions excessively friendly to casual players. To outplay Most of CT champions yo have to have a decent understanding of their kit, of their windows, of what is a threat. If you don't understand that minions are key to yas mobility, or that you want to break his shield when he trys to cs with an auto befor blowing a combo on him, or you probably shouldn't Blow your entire load as a mage who he can WW. Your gonna have a fucking bad time. If you force fights in jungles, make him use ability's badly, or can target where he is going to go at the end of his dash with a skill, then he is easyer to deal with. You cant just know your champion well, you need to understand the opponents options. Do you know hands down what the easiest time to land a skill shot CC on new akali? Its after she recasts E to dash at you, 100% straight line from her location to your face, freaking hard to miss given that her E is broadcasts in 2 casts. On the whole this shouldn't be to difficult of a mechanic to pick up, after playing her a lot how often do I see this? almost never. Overall Its easy to win a lane when its, oh yea I out range them and just need to hit my E before they hit their W. Its harder when its reactionary to the opponent, like say I need to just hit my E after they dash off a minion. Look, A high skillcap champions best case usage should ALWAYS out scale a low cap champion. Not to say that simple champions shouldn't sometimes be a good hard counter or good matchup but if what your banking on in your pick is reliability well there needs to be a reason to play unreliable champions. In this regard I want to say that I don't actually feel CT makes the highest skill cap champions. Now many of them do have high caps, but a lot of them are pretty straightforward to pick up and play well even before you fully master their kits.( {{champion:122}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:19}} ) . The thing is most of them stand out, almost always its a unique kit, it requires players to have an understanding of new mechanics. I don't feel this is bad, but it does require players to adapt and learn. This is not something every player wants to do, infact many refuse to. I don't want to throw shade at OTP players, but there's a world of difference between OTP who learn the game and know matchups and interactions vs the OTP AND THRE REST OF THE GOD DAMM GAME (teammates fucking matter yo) Compared to many who just blindly picks their main every fucking game with no care about synergy or matchups and still expects to be rewarded? Look this last example... that player sucks, screw them. Whelp that's my rant. If you took the time thanks, if not meh.
so ur basically asking us to play the champion, understand their ups and downs, and the use that knowledge to counterplay them. Right? ill tell you what wont work there. as I stated, the above analogy works for literally every other champion in the game. IT IS SO GENERIC. when it comes to strengths, they have specific ones( negating all enemy projectiles, taking enemy summoners and active items and turning it against them) but no specific weaknesses. for example, im an immobile mage(any mage) laning against yas. this is basically what happens at lvl3-4 I bait his WW, wait it out, but then he still lives through my full rotation because of flow shield and E. or I play def, wait for jg, and we try and kill him, but he has flash, E, WW, and knockup, and flow shield ready. that is a **huge** no. of tools for a carry champion. or I play def and wait to roam, but he just dashes through my minions, gets escalating E dmg, and the E-Q combo for sure knockup, gets conqueror, and if im still alive, uses ignite for good measure. "make him use ability's badly" you gave this as an example of playing against yasuo in the jungle, well he is a laner most games what do I do then? plus I also said that CT champs success depend on the person playing them, not the opponent. it is really hard for me to make an enemy yasuo use abilities "badly" unless he/she does so by themselves. what can I do if they play well??? that's why I suggested the above decisions. the problem isn't that they require knowledge, its that they have completely overloaded kits. for example one champ has a 2x crit multiplier and a flow shield generated by moving, a low cooldown Q that applies on hit effects and can knockup from long range, a bigass windwall that completely negates every enemy projectile in the game, a low cooldown dash that deals escalating dmg, a low cooldown ult that deals a lot of dmg, grants flow shield, and puts the champ just out of tower range if the target is under tower. this, and the champ can be played in almost any role and go almost any build path depending on whats required. these kinds of champs heavily punish opponent mistakes but at the same time easily forgive the player's mistakes. this is the kind of thing I don't want to play against, because while the enemy can relax and make frequent mistakes, I have to constantly concentrate, be on my toes, and not make even the slightest error, knowing ill die if I did.
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BULLSEYE89

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