Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 16
Hey Meddler! any ideas about {{champion:35}} . he's not necessarily in a bad spot (i'd say he's great, infact), but he defienietly doesn't feel good in terms of gameplay. He feels unfun, clunky, and ever since his rework he's too focused around items and lategame power rather than being his old "early game champ"
Zeus xD (EUNE)
: 2019 Shaco skin ideas , enjoy .
tbh i want Secret Boss Shaco, or Sewn Chaos. Sadly nobody did an art of those skins.
: noone likes shaco not the enemy team, not your team all shaco does is feed my enemies, no matter what, shaco is my greatest foe seriously i'm either with someone in a kshaway video on my team or against pink ward
: You're taking that out of context. He's not in need of a full VGU, because his base visual isn't entirely awful. It's just his KIT that's problematic, so he'd probably just get a GU with a minor visual component.
Thats false, learn to read and stop taking things out of context yourself. He said that "We're targeting champs who either aren't in need of a full VGU or **aren't likely to get one in the immediate future.**" So my point still stands, and the other Rioter did tweet that they are thinking about a Shaco skin. They updated his movement animation too, so he won't receive even a Ezreal-kind of VGU. If you claim that he doesn't need a VGU and he should receive GU instead you're partially blind.
: I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I think you're getting your hopes up over nothing... Because Shaco right now is, as we see from the comment below, a champion that NOBODY BUT SHACO MAINS likes to see. The only reason people DON'T ban him "just because they hate seeing him" is because so few people play him. If he ever became popular, you'd see him on the permaban list, regardless of his winrate. And I feel like that's a bigger driving force behind skin cadence than you're giving credit for.
> [{quoted}](name=Eleshakai,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=mt0EPPJ4,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2018-12-08T20:56:52.411+0000) > > The only reason people DON'T ban him "just because they hate seeing him" is because so few people play him. > thats false, for example league of graph has Shaco as 26th most mained out of 142 champions, and 4th most one tricked. on U.GG Shaco has a pick rate of 4-5%, in comparision to Aurelion Sol or other champions it's huge. Shaco community is huge, people underrate it, hell i often meet other Shaco one tricks or mains in ranks at high diamond which is a small % of people. im fairly certain that Shaco isn't a banned champion out of frustration because there are more frustrating champions atm, especially the current meta champs.
: I don't think Shaco is going to get anything until he gets his gameplay update. With his current kit/etc, I don't think Riot wants to encourage people to play him.
> [{quoted}](name=Eleshakai,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=mt0EPPJ4,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-12-08T17:27:49.927+0000) > > I don't think Shaco is going to get anything until he gets his gameplay update. With his current kit/etc, I don't think Riot wants to encourage people to play him. Meddler confirmed that Shaco won't receive a VGU anytime soon, and rioters that are in the lead of skins were up for a Shaco skin. proof https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/WJOETQ8X-quick-gameplay-thoughts-november-14 "We're targeting champs who either aren't in need of a full VGU or aren't likely to get one in the immediate future." https://twitter.com/thejanellemj/status/1044687629919211521?lang=en here.
: Skin Concept: Coven Ivern
Coven is a group of witches, i'm 100% certain that Ivern is a guy.
floo (EUW)
: Wasn't Diana like the only champ not played at all in pro play this season? Skin's nice tho
{{champion:35}}
Juice (EUNE)
: 1350+ Renekton skin when?
cries in {{champion:35}}
: I'm feeling very disgruntled with Riot and Zyra's neglect.
cries in {{champion:35}} (the only argument is that he has 7 low quality skins) while last one was released 1266 days ago.
: :/ I am pretty annoyed that Diana got passed over. Like they treat Diana has the bastard child of that lore when it comes to skins. If anyone should have had a Lunar Eclipse skin, it should have been Diana. Not Leona. Just really, riot?
cries in {{champion:35}} at least you got some quality skins. All he got is nerfs and 975 skins (and only one of these deserves the 975, while still having trash model in-game. While the rest is just purely bad.) Shaco is literally riots abused child.
Sirhaian (NA)
: Visual Effects Update: Teemo
question! what champions are most likely to be on vfx updates? is there any possibility for {{champion:35}} to get one?
Cloud273 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ApothNinja,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJo1rjkj,comment-id=00000001000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-25T21:56:39.433+0000) > > Ah, the word you're looking for there is a "blink", similar to using flash. His Q is a blink skill that makes him temporarily invisible. It still doesn't make him remotely untargetable. Yes I posted above. I was wrong about the q granting untargetability, but he still gets untargetability with his ult.
> [{quoted}](name=Cloud273,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xJo1rjkj,comment-id=000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-25T22:00:07.845+0000) > > Yes I posted above. I was wrong about the q granting untargetability, but he still gets untargetability with his ult. untargetability with his ult which has cast time, and is only untargetable for 0.5 seconds, compared to other champions like:{{champion:266}} (during R) {{champion:432}} , {{champion:164}} (instant cast, compared to Shaco's cast time, although it needs enemy champion near), {{champion:245}} (instant cast during R), {{champion:60}} (E which is not even an ultimate, and its a gapcloser too), {{champion:28}} instant R, and i can go on. If you even wan Shaco's "vanish" (different form of untargetability) then look at {{champion:238}} , {{champion:11}} , {{champion:421}}
Cloud273 (NA)
: @Riot can we PLEASE nerf Shaco?
let me debunk you stop doubling down on the fact that Shaco has untargetability in stealth, he has none. He can be hit with abilities, not target ones because he's not revealed. Untargetability by LoL Wiki: **Fizz is being untargetable while using Playful Playful. Untargetability refers to units in a state where they are no longer valid targets for auras (e.g. Sunfire Cape item Sunfire Cape), unit-targeted (e.g. Disintegrate Disintegrate), auto-targeted (e.g. Death Lotus Death Lotus), direction-targeted (e.g. Mystic Shot Mystic Shot) and ground-targeted effects (e.g. Pillar of Flame Pillar of Flame), including attacks, abilities, items and summoner spells. Becoming untargetable is not a form of invulnerability, and units will still suffer the effects of active applied damage over times (e.g. Ignite Ignite), delayed detonations (e.g. Time Bomb Time Bomb) and tethers (e.g. Drain Drain).** **The act of becoming untargetable will also interrupt any effects that have already acquired the unit as a target (e.g. an oncoming basic attack will fizzle) as well as causing AI-controlled units (e.g. turrets and minions) to acquire a new target (also known as "dropping aggro").** **The telegraph from KarthusSquare Karthus' Requiem Requiem will be placed on untargetable enemies, although the damage itself is classified as auto-targeted effect that occurs at the end of the channel time.** **To date, Realm Warp Realm Warp and Wish Wish are the only abilities that can target an untargetable unit. ** he has below 54% winrate in leagues below plat, 53% at gold and 59% at masters (keep in mind the amount of players in masters, while in challenger he has winrate of 51%) in some elos he has 50% or below winrate. Shaco has been getting nerfed alot of patches, with indirect nerfs yet we keep the winrate on over 52% for past few months. No matter how hard we get hit with nerfs. "Shaco's kit is just way too strong and offers too much" sure, thats why it has no damage in kit. Shaco's deceive isn't a better version of Ezreal's arcane shift, Arcane shift hits invisible targets, has bigger range, a lilttle bit longer cast, but it gets reduced with each skillshot hit, also it proc's new Ez W (unless you want to argue that Ezreal is an assassin and needs invisibility) if we remove invisibility, it's just a small blink. Stealth traps aren't too long, infact they're 60 seconds, and todays wards are 120. Jhin's traps are longer. CC isn't strong, look at other Fear abilities, Fiddlesticks and Nocturne use point and click fear, with even more reliable usage. Fiddle's fear is longer and has no cast time, Nocturne has 2 seconds before fearing the enemy, but he can jsut stick to the target and guarantee the fear. Shaco's box fears in AoE, but it arms for 2 seconds. You can do alot in those 2 seconds (destroy, walk away, use red trinket etc.) They don't have too much hp, infact they have 550 at level 18, without any armor, single aa destroys it. the fact that he can place them while stealthed isn't bullshit, since it reveals shaco for a split second which gives away his position. {{item:3364}} Oracle lens, reveals Shaco's boxes and makes them active, which leads to their 5 second lifespan. You know who has less counterplay? the same Ezreal you just said, for me it's impossible to assassinate a guy with Tabis, GA and Iceborn Gauntlet because he has 170+ Armor casually. While still maintaing 600 damage per Q and Auto, with a safe ass range.
Rioter Comments
KazKaz (OCE)
: Hmm, I feel like {{champion:35}} 's Two-Shiv Poison would be THE perfect candidate for adaptive damage. AP Shaco is pretty much dead primarily due to E continuing to do physical damage even with a large amount of AP, forcing Shaco to pick up Lethality/Armor pen. (?) in order for his E to do any amount of relevant damage. Thoughts?
agreed, Ap shaco was killed off by the change and i think thats the one of few champions that should have that.
Haziv (EUW)
: Shaco “The Puppeteer”
I like that idea of him having a knife and a puppet. {{champion:35}} Just give him a big creepy grin.
: Pretty sure they intended it to overide it. They don't want shaco to be strong, just look at the q nerf and it's pretty obvious. FOr stormrazor, not sure about statik.
No they didn't intend it since one Shaco main even tweeted at rioter and he said that he'll look into this (2 patches ago)
Rioter Comments
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: Khazix on PBE
i think thats a healthy trade off.
: Problems with Domination Tree and Hail of blades.
Dark Harvest isn't lackluster, just not used by alot of champions. Some might say that its busted on AA assassins (for example Shaco has higher pickrate and winrate with DH than ELC) also it feels like you're biased towards elc, at any time that DH is stronger than ELC it's more useful in every way. 1 AA proc, multiple uses in teamfights, no cooldown and it still grows stronger than ELC. on my regular build you need like 200-250 DH at level 18 to overpower ELC at level 18 with the same amount of AD. Which is quite easy to do.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shåwn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IIckXzjQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-04T02:13:31.210+0000) > > Yea I agree hail of blades seems to be bad for not only assassins but also mages, adcs, fighters, tanks. Not sure who its good on. The power level of the keystone itself is just so low. I guesd only rengar or noct can use it as assasin but it fell awful anyway.
Sure, but why would they if they can run DH or ELC which are both superior for them?
Hibeki (NA)
: Dark Harvest is very good on powerfarm heavy junglers. Its Go-to for champions like Kayn and Graves (Provided you are red kayn and not blue, which you should know what youre picking before the game starts)
Shaco is one of few that has higher pickrate and winrate with DH than ELC.
Ervin (EUW)
: You were complaining about Warwick and Jax, right now Shaco has 54.66 - 55.08% winrate with a 8.53% pick-rate. I guess i was wrong during all this time.
53.3% winrate & 6.7% pickrate Shaco vs 54.7% winrate & 9,9% pickrate Warwick huh.
Xyltin (EUW)
: > Exactly, one good play can give you a free win and one bad play can lead to the end of the game, not worth it at all. We want to work hard, because that's what this champ is, he's not low skillcap assassin. He has alot more to it. Statistically he is one of the easier or pretty normal champs to play. - https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champions/ His win delta is pretty low, which is the difference in performance between the AVG plat+ player and the elo peak OTPs. - his WR in silver and gold is not that much different (50-52-53-53-53% in B-S-G-P-D) Talon has a harder curve (48-49-49.5-51-53.5%) and I am pretty sure Talon mains don't consider Talon the hardest champ to master. > all adc's has the ability to him him when he's invisible, alongside supports. Shield supports even have it easier just by using solari, redemption and shielding his adc before Shaco can actually damage him. That is a problem of every assassin right now. Shields and heals. But Shaco still doe great right now. > Compared to Warwicks 55% winrate with 10% pickrate.. sure. I think we all know that WW is too strong right now and needs a nerf. > That's Shaco's mid game, when he hits Duskblade he does alot more then his kit allows him too, Riot is literally gutting 100 damage from duskblade mid game, and 200 late game for Shaco. I would consider 15 minutes the end of the early game in soloQ (competitive it is ~12 minutes when the laning phase starts to end). So 15-25 minutes means you have pretty much the early game and 0-10 minutes of the mid game and he does fine there. > We have our reasons too, our champion was changed from early game assassin to late game meele dps adc. > I want early game buffs and late game nerfs. **Finally a good point for a discussion. You don't want actual power, you want early game power and are willing to throw away all your late game power again. Now that is a trade and I think it is fair to talk about it. Doubt Riot will ever bring the old Shaco back because it was terrible to play against him early game, but a version closer to his older self is definitely possible. Less scaling power (bAD on E) for more early game power (likely E base dmg).** > Took the abillity of invisibility to the point it has no counter play so they nerf our damage. It still has counterplay, you just can't target the invis guy. I can see why you say that, but the problem is that Riot didn't change it for Shaco but for the overall game health and every other invis champ is having a more healthy time with the new mechanics around invis/camouflage. So you can be mad there, but it is a point that won't change. > and since Riot is removing from us 200 duskblade damage, i want some buffs like 50 bonus damage on Q or crit damage increase. for the sake of nerfing his invisibility length, some stuff with passive since it's useless outside of camp clearing. Shaco could still go warrior first item and still have a 50-51% WR which is ok. He is able to ignore the item if the nerf turns out to be too hard. Warrior into youmuus or warrior into statikk+IE are both very strong without duskblade. And if duskblade is still stronger than these builds for him he will have an above 51% WR with duskbalde even after the nerf. But bringing a compensation buff to a champ that is already great at the same time of the nerf is a bit rushed. I have no problem seeing shaco buffed if he becomes too weak. but right now, as much as he builds Duskblade, he doesn't fully rely on it to be fine, he just abuses it to be great. > For example buff up his passive against champions, if he backstabs champion he gets a longer cd, not hard is it? More easy-to-use burst? Never a good idea if he isn't really weak. And what you did there just now is what you wanted to prevent: You buffed his late game burst (especially with IE) without giving him much early on at all. > There are so many ways to buff up his early game and nerf his late game. That is true. Question is: Does he really need it?
I actually think the crit damage would fix his early game considering that people will buy IE & SS anyway to get 50% crit & gain 250% crit damage. I don't mean make it 200% but more like 150. gaining bonus half damage from his AA seems an okay deal.
Xyltin (EUW)
: > We don't want him to be a late game champion, it's harder to win the late game becaues of one mistake that can cost you whole game. And one good Shaco play that leads to a kill and you team gets baron and wins. In the early game you have to work hard to get your team ahead and snowball it all. Late game a single good play from you can win you the game, but a single mistake can make you lose the game. > there are oracle lens that still spot shaco and alot of support counter me with it, also carries know how to position. Yes, there are, but they only spot him, not make the enemy able to attack him. > There are Tabis that block 10% of Shaco's damage, and we know he's assassin based around auto attacks. And he is still one of the top 5 soloQ junglers even with Tabis there. > another thing, as a diamond player i can't afford to play till late game, people tend to close games in mid game. Good that Shaco also has a 51% WR in D+ if a game end between 15-25 minutes. Not that bad is it? Shaco mains are the only mains that cry for buffs when their champ is a top tier soloQ champ and gets a nerf next patch.
> [{quoted}](name=Xyltin,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00080003000000000001000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-26T11:06:35.438+0000) > > And one good Shaco play that leads to a kill and you team gets baron and wins. In the early game you have to work hard to get your team ahead and snowball it all. Late game a single good play from you can win you the game, but a single mistake can make you lose the game. Exactly, one good play can give you a free win and one bad play can lead to the end of the game, not worth it at all. We want to work hard, because that's what this champ is, he's not low skillcap assassin. He has alot more to it. > Yes, there are, but they only spot him, not make the enemy able to attack him. all adc's has the ability to him him when he's invisible, alongside supports. Shield supports even have it easier just by using solari, redemption and shielding his adc before Shaco can actually damage him. > And he is still one of the top 5 soloQ junglers even with Tabis there. Compared to Warwicks 55% winrate with 10% pickrate.. sure. > Good that Shaco also has a 51% WR in D+ if a game end between 15-25 minutes. Not that bad is it? That's Shaco's mid game, when he hits Duskblade he does alot more then his kit allows him too, Riot is literally gutting 100 damage from duskblade mid game, and 200 late game for Shaco. > Shaco mains are the only mains that cry for buffs when their champ is a top tier soloQ champ and gets a nerf next patch. We have our reasons too, our champion was changed from early game assassin to late game meele dps adc. Took the abillity of invisibility to the point it has no counter play so they nerf our damage. I want early game buffs and late game nerfs. and since Riot is removing from us 200 duskblade damage, i want some buffs like 50 bonus damage on Q or crit damage increase. for the sake of nerfing his invisibility length, some stuff with passive since it's useless outside of camp clearing. For example buff up his passive against champions, if he backstabs champion he gets a longer cd, not hard is it? There are so many ways to buff up his early game and nerf his late game.
: Shaco falls off if the adc is a late game one and they bought ninja tabi and GA. Especially if there's a shield support following them around all the time.
True, but to play the devils advocate, his late game is more of a dps assassin due to being crit assassin with aa based damage. for example as a Shaco main i'd say his late game is insane due to hitting 700 crit with clone per aa, with 1.2+ attack speed. unless enemy support can't peel, there's no way you're not killing enemy adc. on the other hand his early game is so shit that you don't do anything, your shiv deals less damage than aa's untill it hits 5th level and 2-3 items. You can't gank due to sacrificing your invisibility for two-shiv damage, and if you do maximize his invisibility you're not dealing any damage. You need to count on your laner for everything then. His CC is unreliable upon ganking unless you do it perfectly. backstab is just a camp clear ability , 130% crit damage to enemies is so bad that people buy 2 crit items for the sake of getting 250% crit damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=kaironen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JAgglARd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-23T23:43:51.389+0000) > > Shaco currently does not fall off I believe. However, warwick is stronger than shaco atm. Even if warwick is healthy, he does need a nerf more so than shaco.. Shaco falls off mid game and comes back late game, especially if he doesn't do well early game.
meh he falls of early game, can sometimes make up the mid game (if enemies make mistakes) and is godlike late game. Shaco mains cry about early game, not anything else. We would appreciate buffs to his early game, for the sake of nerfs late game. We're supposed to be the guys that strike the fear in early game, out pressure enemy jungle. Not the powerfarm champion to get 300 DH stacks to one shot anybody we want with overpowered invisibility + being late game meele adc.
: Just seems that the Shaco playerbase is highly dedicated. Shaco deserves nerfs, actually. But they will never admit it.
I mentioned it so many times that i'm sick of it already Shaco deserves early game buffs, and late game nerfs. Also duskblade nerf already is gutting him for 200 damage.
: The buff Shaco REALLY needs
the thing i want is just a simple buff to his early game and nerf to his late game, i think that would be fair considering he overkills most squishy picks late game, and his shiv damage doesn't do anything early game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cðulrophobia,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00af000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-25T10:56:46.435+0000) > > Shaco isn't anywhere being strong, he might curbstomp low elo that you are in, but he has alot of weaknesses that you don't even realize. > > if you don't play that champion, please don't talk about his issues like you know him through. I play him for 4-5 years at this point & became a one trick. > > i play other champs when i'm forced to, other than that i'm playing him only. There are alot of better assassins in the game like Kha & Kayn. The main problem with Shaco is that his late game is stupidlly strong and early game stupidly weak. i dont want to be a broken stereo. Im not bronze, or silver, or gold. I main shaco as well. This is my opinion and its backed up by my 2+ years of playing him. You can at least agree that with the introduction of new runes giving him the damage he need, he feels alot stronger than previously right? I just think he is TOO strong late game and too weak early game, like you said! I think overall a nerf is needed, but i should have been more specific in saying to his late game, and a compensation buff to his sub par early. I missed the early game shaco gameplay is all. Cheers!
i do agree on that part, i think if they add Q base damage again, buff his invisibility early game and nerf late game it would fix the problem. and no base damage will not overpower him late game considering that they literally take 200 damage away late game. tl;dr make his invisibility 2 sec at first point, add 10-50 damage per q and nerf his lategame invisibility to 4 or 3.75 secs.
Ervin (EUW)
: It’s 5% pick-rate actually
Jax 53% winrate 10% pickrate at jungle. Warwick 55% winrate 11% pickrate. nerf these instead of champions with twice less pickrate.
: > [{quoted}](name=Torturer4749,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00af0000,timestamp=2018-02-25T08:10:43.732+0000) > > "i do agree shaco needs a nerf as of right now" https://gyazo.com/17a6ac9c103868002ecb2ba7b7770ae0 You're gold lol i just use this account to post on the forums, haven't used that acc for over 2 years now. As a 3 year shaco player he feels alot stronger than what he used to be. You're using "haha u bronze" as an excuse? Gold is just as bad... Anyway why would i want to nerf my own main champion other than having an UNBIASED opinion on him that he is legit on the strong side atm? Not gonna bother linking you my main account but its way better than your gold. You didn't even bother looking at the champs did you? See any twitch or jhin? yea. Figures. edit: ah fk i sound like a pretentious shit. Whatever ill take the downvotes here i dont normally sound this upstuck sorry.
Shaco isn't anywhere being strong, he might curbstomp low elo that you are in, but he has alot of weaknesses that you don't even realize. if you don't play that champion, please don't talk about his issues like you know him through. I play him for 4-5 years at this point & became a one trick. i play other champs when i'm forced to, other than that i'm playing him only. There are alot of better assassins in the game like Kha & Kayn. The main problem with Shaco is that his late game is stupidlly strong and early game stupidly weak.
Feel Apathy (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cðulrophobia,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=000800030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T23:12:44.388+0000) > > Oracle Lens still reveals Shaco, he's untargetable? sure. but it does work and you can hit him with skillshots, slow him down or even kill. > > felt that several times, so invisibility part is no longer arguable. > ofc in low elo it is too strong, but why are people in low elo? to learn. It's not in "real-time" though more like after-images and considering shaco's mostly an early-mid game jungler, and you buy the proper lens at lvl 9 or around minute 11+ he has 2 buff rotations to do the amount of damage he needs to win a game. Taking into account how junglers spike in power if they take first blood I'd say Shaco's current state is how Kindred used to be pre-rework, whenever they got the FB kill, they went balistic and took everything and won all skirmishes from that point on. And going back to he lens - Let's be honest, outside of pro-play and that's only the support at best, nobody buys lvl 1, even if you do if you can't directly hit Shaco **after **his Deceive you've lost him. Of course I'm a tad biased since Shaco's consistently getting kills with the new runes much like Kha'Zix.. Also he's the only one where you literally feel helpless against if he gets ahead - If you cannot win a 1v1 when he has ignite you've already lost. Kind of reminds you of season 4? Ruined King/Tank Evelynn that took ignite and cheesed early kills to snowball out of proportion.
considering you are in gold elo i can tell where you are coming from but you're wrong, he's mid-late game jungler currently, after his reworks and nerfs. early game Shaco does not deal damage and thats why Shaco mains are upset, he has no base damage or good scalling damage untill late game. I see junglers and supports on daily basis using oracle lens. also the thing is Kha'Zix has alot more invisibility, reset on jump and abilities that scale good in comparision.
Afelers (EUNE)
: I won't deny that he is in a bad position and has barely any damage just a bit scared of what Riot would do had they given him back a portion of his spell damage. But I'm rather on that opinion where the game wouldn't be fair until the concept of point and click is eradicated replaced by skillshots completely anyway.
the thing is, i wouldn't mind two-shiv being a Zed's Q clone ability. as long as it would deal an actual damage & still slow enemy down, i'm fine.
Feel Apathy (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cðulrophobia,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=0008000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T22:22:04.265+0000) > > i didn't say "all high elo shaco players are dropping ignite for flash" but sure there are some. > > Sudden impact means nothing, considering that nobody even buys lethality items outside of duskblade most of the time. > Statikk shiv is garbage without IE considering that our backstab proc doesn't proc Statikk's crit. > our clone doesn't proc statikk's though he does have energized stacks. There are so many wrong things with Shaco that you do not understand. > > I go in and i die, that's my point. If i am supposed to die, at least let me kill the enemy. BUT considering that im always matched up against Supports like Janna, Lulu, Alistar. They all have tools to not let me kill their adc & most of the time i can't. > > Try to get through alistar with oracle lens when the fight is started. Try to get to adc with Janna on his side. Not to mention getting insta cc'd by Lulu and killed by adc. > > AND if i manage to get to enemy adc when support is dead, he has tabis that blocks most of the damage, GA that gives him respawn alongside the fact that he has over 100 armor (50% physical damage reduction + 10% blocked damage from tabis) and i can't kill him unless i have over 300+ DH stacks. These are "problems" that all champions have and not necessarily Shaco. Biggest problem is that pink ward no longer works and outside of champions that can reveal you like Nocturne or Lee I'm doubtful Shaco has a poor match-up that doesn't consist of "Their team plays together and I cannot 1v1 someone while having ignite and stealth"
Oracle Lens still reveals Shaco, he's untargetable? sure. but it does work and you can hit him with skillshots, slow him down or even kill. felt that several times, so invisibility part is no longer arguable. ofc in low elo it is too strong, but why are people in low elo? to learn.
: Make low elo players learn the game instead of giving them get out of jail free cards by gutting champions. You guys need to either confess that you hate Shaco being in the game and delete him, or do literally anything that might even look like an attempt at fixing him. As it stands, your balance team is a fucking joke.
Feel Apathy (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cðulrophobia,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00080003000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T21:18:10.180+0000) > > Oh sure, that's why part of high elo Shaco players are dropping ignite for flash. > Ignite is there only for kill pressure early & it helps some players proc ELC right now. > you see, we're forced to buy tiamat even though it's not recommended for Shaco (by Riot's standards) and we don't even buy the full item till late game (more than likely last one) > > His poor early game is less about farming, more about lack of damage and ganking ability. > You can't gank your ally unless he has a good cc, and it's not guaranteed either > his Two-Shiv deals no damage, it's practically just there to possibly finish off enemy (more than enough times feels like it's healing them) > Deceive early game is literally useless. > and Hallucination is pretty buggy and doesn't proc all of his items either. http://champion.gg/champion/Shaco/Jungle?league= http://eune.op.gg/champion/shaco/statistics/jungle 12% vs 84% in favor for ignite. Sudden impact also greatly enhancing his burst with the new runes granting him both armor pen & magic pen to increase his spiky Q + shiv,tiamat burst...
i didn't say "all high elo shaco players are dropping ignite for flash" but sure there are some. Sudden impact means nothing, considering that nobody even buys lethality items outside of duskblade most of the time. Statikk shiv is garbage without IE considering that our backstab proc doesn't proc Statikk's crit. our clone doesn't proc statikk's though he does have energized stacks. There are so many wrong things with Shaco that you do not understand. I go in and i die, that's my point. If i am supposed to die, at least let me kill the enemy. BUT considering that im always matched up against Supports like Janna, Lulu, Alistar. They all have tools to not let me kill their adc & most of the time i can't. Try to get through alistar with oracle lens when the fight is started. Try to get to adc with Janna on his side. Not to mention getting insta cc'd by Lulu and killed by adc. AND if i manage to get to enemy adc when support is dead, he has tabis that blocks most of the damage, GA that gives him respawn alongside the fact that he has over 100 armor (50% physical damage reduction + 10% blocked damage from tabis) and i can't kill him unless i have over 300+ DH stacks.
Afelers (EUNE)
: In early game, yes, but what about his late game especially with his much needed dark harvest? He just appears behind you and does his skillful right click and point and click E combo and any carry is gone in a blink. He can't even be spotted anymore thanks to true invisibility. Yeah, you might need to wait til late game for that to happen but it's worth the wait.
Not really, i don't think you realize the issue here. We don't want him to be a late game champion, it's harder to win the late game becaues of one mistake that can cost you whole game. there are oracle lens that still spot shaco and alot of support counter me with it, also carries know how to position. There are Tabis that block 10% of Shaco's damage, and we know he's assassin based around auto attacks. good support will peel for his carry, and either cc or shield carry for the damage we deal. another thing, as a diamond player i can't afford to play till late game, people tend to close games in mid game.
: because Shaco can proc Duskblade with even less counterplay than Kha and Rengar. I do understand your concern, but someone oneshotting you out of true invisibility is a bit different from getting an warning indicator from Rengar ult or an Kha'Zix jumping over a wall.
WHAT Kha'Zix is literally same as Shaco, no excuse. Everyone evolves his R and just run around in invisibility throughout the whole map. he one shots out of this too and RESETS his jumps. + he has higher base damage, ability damage and doesn't play around auto attacks only.
Feel Apathy (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cðulrophobia,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=000800030000,timestamp=2018-02-23T20:42:51.348+0000) > > I think you're overstimating Shaco's state. > Shaco's pickrate is very low for a reason, sure he has a high winrate but that's because he's full of OTP's > there are players from high elo that are dropping Shaco because he is in one of his worst states (better than season 7) > You won't see an regular player picking up Shaco at ranked, because there are champions that fit his role better and more effectively. I disagree No jungler can afford to drop flash for ignite, yet shaco consistently does it and bullies other junglers because of it. Tiamat also being a cheap early buy further improves his "poor" early game that used to be the case before where he was unable to farm efficiently.
> [{quoted}](name=Feel Apathy,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=0008000300000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T20:51:10.438+0000) > > I disagree > > No jungler can afford to drop flash for ignite, yet shaco consistently does it and bullies other junglers because of it. > Tiamat also being a cheap early buy further improves his "poor" early game that used to be the case before where he was unable to farm efficiently. Oh sure, that's why part of high elo Shaco players are dropping ignite for flash. Ignite is there only for kill pressure early & it helps some players proc ELC right now. you see, we're forced to buy tiamat even though it's not recommended for Shaco (by Riot's standards) and we don't even buy the full item till late game (more than likely last one) His poor early game is less about farming, more about lack of damage and ganking ability. You can't gank your ally unless he has a good cc, and it's not guaranteed either his Two-Shiv deals no damage, it's practically just there to possibly finish off enemy (more than enough times feels like it's healing them) Deceive early game is literally useless. and Hallucination is pretty buggy and doesn't proc all of his items either.
Ervin (EUW)
: I don't think a ~54% w/r champion will need a buff, he might drop 2-3% but that's it.
53% winrate champion, with 2% pickrate. compared to Shyvana with 52-53% winrate with 8% pickrate? hell even Kha'Zix has 16% pickrate and his winrate is bad because of it. Riot doesn't look at invidual games, they look at statistics and if a champion has good winrate its ok.
Meddler (NA)
: We're talking about Shaco. Risk there is he's pretty strong already at most skill levels already, so we'd already been considering a nerf on pub stomp grounds. Nothing conclusive yet, but less sure we should add power to him as a result, even if Duskblade gets nerfed.
I think you're overstimating Shaco's state. Shaco's pickrate is very low for a reason, sure he has a high winrate but that's because he's full of OTP's there are players from high elo that are dropping Shaco because he is in one of his worst states (better than season 7) You won't see a regular player pick up Shaco at ranked, because there are champions that fit his role better and more effectively.
94nono94 (EUW)
: Except Kha'zix Cannot do it instantly. AA ult (1sec at least) AA CD of ult, ult again for at least 1 sec aa to proc it thrice. Shaco just does it.
except he doesn't need to, he can just do that and reset jump. Get out alive and proc another duskblade off. once Shaco goes in he has no escape, similliar to pre-rework rengar (when current has cleanse and movement speed buff too)
: @Meddler Us shaco mains wondering why our favorite assassin isn't being compensated. I will remind people he has no base damage (Or useful scalings tbh) so the duskblade nerf will hit us hard. especially harder than champions like zed and kha'zix who have much better scalings and higher base dmg.
{{champion:238}} has higher outplay potential, {{champion:121}} can spam {{item:3147}} anyway + resets. {{champion:35}} has go in ability and his whole burst is from his first auto attack which is countered by {{item:3047}} Riot just wants this champion to die.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 23
i despise the fact that once again {{champion:35}} gets butchered because some assassins were too strong with this item {{champion:121}} can run around the map, invisible and still gets buffed clown is heavily depended on the item? nah, let's nerf it and make all {{champion:35}} players leave the damn champion. There is literally a guy who just dropped him because of this nerf, and you riot made this. You know he's in a bad state and that people stop playing him because there are champions that do his job alot better with better results and easier ways.
Jatu (EUW)
: So {{champion:121}} , {{champion:107}} and {{champion:141}} could possibly get buffs because of {{item:3147}} nerffs but {{champion:35}} won't get any?
{{champion:35}} literally is in a good spot only due to the {{item:3147}} if a {{champion:121}} gets a buff for the {{item:3147}} nerf & he doesn't then wth. and don't tell me "boo hoo, {{champion:35}} procs {{item:3147}} twice with his clone" {{champion:121}} procs it at least 3 times via his ult, not instantly but he doesn't have his FULL damage out of first aa, unlike the clown. I don't care about a buff, but you could at least bugfix the clone and give HIM possibility of proccing {{item:3087}} we won't cry about damage output even though YOU FORCE US to build crit.

Cðulrophobia

Level 296 (EUNE)
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