: Are you hearing yourself? The consequence isn't from having an opinion, but presenting this opinion in an disrespectful way. You anf I both know you saying the argument was idiotic wasn't the only thing in the post said.
I already asked you that question, I'll do that again. How to say that someone has a bad breath without saying that he has a bad breath?? You can't, because that's an objective statement. You still don't get that an objective statement **DOES NOT** have any extra connotations. It's not positive, it's not negative, it's a statement. Someone has a bad breath. Period. It's stating a **FACT** and an objective truth. If someone is fat, saying that he is fat is an objective truth, because is his fat. This does not have any positive or negative connotations. It's **YOU** that add to it some secret meaning. -------------------- Let's say we visit European country where if you say "your wife is beautiful", people will think "oh, that's a complement". Now let's say that we visit Arab country where if you say "your wife is beautiful", people will think of this as an insult. Because in radical Arab countries making personal comments on someone's wife is always an insult. You are not allowed to comments someones wife. So is that statement "your wife is beautiful" a disrespectful one or not? Neither. It's an objective truth. The wife is beautiful. Period. It's not positive it's not negative, because depending on everything it can have different meaning. The context **can** vary. If you tell someone that he is fat it's not an insult, its a stating a fact. ---------------------- So what is an insult then? If you would said "you are underhuman". That's an insult, **because this is not an objective truth**. You don't say that someone is an "underhuman" because he is. You say that subjectively. This is not the truth. And saying that no matter where you are is **ALWAYS** an insult because it is **not** and objective truths. No one on earth is underhuman. You get it? Millions of scientific thesis were made on this. I. DID. NOT. VIOLATE. ANY. RULE. I. DID. NOT. INSULT. ANYONE. I was a victim of censorship from mods that limited my free speech, because they didn't like the sentence in their subjective opinion. https://imgur.com/a/7PWSaez This comment of mine got deleted as well. What rules did I violate. Where was I disrespectful? Answer me.
Ulanopo (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T18:27:47.795+0000) > > Alright, what rules have my post violated exactly? > Free speech? From the [Universal Rules](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE): >_ THE GOLDEN RULE_ > _Always be respectful to players, community members, moderators, and Rioters._ . > Describing an argument as idiotic is not "violation" of any rules. And if I would say that strawberries are red, would that be a violation of rules? That was not the reason your comment was removed. It was removed for insults and antagonistic language. It's worth noting this was a simple removal - it did not come with a suspension or even a warning. Removals of this sort are intended as a reminder to use the Boards in a respectful manner. Your takeaway should be that we expect better from you in the future. > This is a clear abuse of mods powers. He did not agree with me so he deleted the comment. After a review, my opinion is this was a legitimate and proper removal. You may wish to come to the Discord if you continue to have misunderstandings about the action.
> Always be respectful to players, community members, moderators, and Rioters. Just give me a second here. How am I not respectful towards anyone when I state that an argument is an idiotic one? And what if I say that I don't like apples and that apples are not tasty? Am I violating the golden rule because someone that likes apples might feel offended? You serious about that? > It was removed for insults and antagonistic language. What you mean "antagonistic language"? Have I said that I'll murder his whole family?? I'm missing something here. I said a funny word pun that relates to him not reflecting on the opposite side arguments. I said "logic-proof".... Let me just digest it.... I was not censored because I said that I'll rip a hearth from his rib cage, by "antagonistic language" you mean a funny word pun where I said that he is "logic-proof", I even added the "xD" at the end. And what if I'll mock rujitra and repeat his already legendary sentence "mAyBE tHeY hAD a bAD gAMe!!11!!1@1212", is that an "antagonistic language" or maybe a funny word pun where I mock his statement which he always repeats no matter of what the situation is, showing that maybe his "argument" cannot be applied to all cases of trolling. No, it was an antagonistic language. A hidden racial slur and a comment about his mother was hidden there. This totally violates basic human rights, yanno. How could I ever possibly say anything like that? (Periscope please don't remove that one, I swear to God it was the last time when I used sarcasm. PLEASE I DID MEAN NO HARM) > It's worth noting this was a simple removal - it did not come with a suspension or even a warning. What is even that comment? You literally said "don't even try to argue with us, be glad we didn't ban you for having an opinion" You clearly bend the rules yourself here. Threatening to suspend me is not optimal here. I didn't violate any rule, therefore I don't have to feel afraid of suspension, I did nothing wrong and you have no reason to suspend me. > After a review, my opinion is this was a legitimate and proper removal. If you say so, we shall see how support sees this matter. But if you will change your mind on the matter and admit that Periscope has bend the rules of free speech on this forum. I want all of my deleted comments that didn't violate any rules to come back to where they were and if that is not possible, I want Periscope to create a pinned post where he admits that he abused his mod power, where he says that he is sorry and where he will say that he will **never** do that again to **any** player that just happens to not agreeing with his personal view. At the end here is one more for you to review, an act of violation of ..... of something I guess: https://imgur.com/a/7PWSaez I didn't knew that sarcasm is not allowed here.... or maybe there is a hidden message there about me massacring someones family. It must have used "antagonistic language" for sure, I guess.
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T17:17:25.484+0000) > > What have I removed? > > https://imgur.com/a/kebacsZ Other people already pointed out what was left out. The "..." hyperlink likely leads to a full version of the post and not the text-limited version.
It doesn't open up if you click it. Periscope told me that the last bit there was that you are logic-proof. Quickly, call the cops. I violated every possible rule by making a funny pun that relates to you not reflecting on the opposite side arguments. Quickly report this comment because you might feel deeply offended xD PEERISCOPEEEEE!!! Where are you when people needs you?
: Will I? Nope, not a mod, but I can tell you there would be a chance due to "has bad breath". Just because something is a statement, doesn't mean you are protected from the be respectful rule of the boards. Calling a fat person fat is a statement and disrespectful. You make your statement off your observation. So what if they said the same thing about you? "Citizen Kayn is logic-proof. He refuses to look at anyone elses side of an argument". Simply because you disagree with them. It is a piss poor argument to make and poor manners in a debate/discussion. Attack the points, not the person.
What you mean "respectful rule"? If he has a bad breath I can say that he has a bad breath because that's the truth. It doesn't have a negative or a positive charge, it's an objective statement. How to say that someone has a bad breath without saying that he has a bad breath? Calling fat person a fat person is truth. This statement doesn't have any "disrespectful" connotations, because that the truth. If you would be an Indian and I would call you an Indian would that be disrespectful? If you would be short and I would describe you as a short person would that be disrespectful as well? It's just you and your weird sense of what is allowed and what is not. It is subjective, therefore it violates the free speech, because the free speech is objective. My comment was not deleted because it violated any rule, it got deleted because some person didn't like it. Not because it was an offensive comment, only because he didn't like it. That is a censorship. You are not allowed to say anything that is not appropriate in someones subjective opinion. > "Citizen Kayn is logic-proof. He refuses to look at anyone elses side of an argument" If you said that, that's your opinion and I have 0 right to censor it no matter how much I like it or not, no matter if I agree with it or not. And if I'll say "Donald Trump is a fool" what is that then? A free speech (to have an opinion on someone) or should that be censored because in someones subjective mind calling someone a fool should be censored. And what if I'll say "Cheese is not tasty", should this be deleted too, because someone that thinks that cheese is tasty might feel offended? That's your logic -> don't have a negative opinion, don't say the truth, don't say anything because someone might feel bad. That's what I'm constantly trying to show you. . . . . Oh wait, I have commented on your logic showing you an example how censoring opinions violates the free speech.... quickly go up to Periscope and tell him to delete my post because you might felt unpleasant after reading my comment. This solves the problem, does it? > Attack the points, not the person. That's what your doing here with me. You don't argue with me, you are not allowing my comments to be there in discussion, you just don't like what I'm saying, therefore you delete my comments. That's not attacking the points, that's removing my voice from discussion just because I tend to think differently.
Ulanopo (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-22T01:01:39.167+0000) > >there's no law that prevents the moderators from setting and applying the rules they see fit. No law, per se, but we do have oversight, both internally and from Riot. >I didn't mean you guys can delete on a whim (well, I'm sure you could, but I suspect it would result in that person not being a mod anymore). The larger point I'm trying to get to is that discussing moderation actions with respect to the legal definition of censorship is not going to be especially helpful, as it's only collaterally relevant to how we work. A great deal of thought and effort went into crafting the Universal Rules. Similar effort goes into every review, modification or addition to those rules. Additionally, we have a team culture that is centered around letting people speak their mind wherever possible. We've never had anyone "casually" remove something because the way we recruit, screen and train moderators very much focuses on having the _opposite_ instinct. In the old days, we had a small time and the workload was heavy. Now, we have a much larger, more stable group that relies less on individual effort and perspective. It's a good team doing something they enjoy and I'm very proud of them.
I want those comments go back where they were as they have not violated any rules. It was just Periscope abusing his power over me. And if that is not possible I want Periscope to create a pinned post on boards where he says that he is very sorry for deleting comments not because they violated any rule, but only because he didn't like them and that he wont do that ever again on **any** boards member that just happens to have a different opinion than he does. Are we having here a civilized habitat or a censorship where mod can abuse his power over users boundlessly? (Now let's wait for Periscope to delete this comment because he felt bad that I criticized his power abuse and that I used some irony here and there)
Ulanopo (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-22T01:01:39.167+0000) > >there's no law that prevents the moderators from setting and applying the rules they see fit. No law, per se, but we do have oversight, both internally and from Riot. >I didn't mean you guys can delete on a whim (well, I'm sure you could, but I suspect it would result in that person not being a mod anymore). The larger point I'm trying to get to is that discussing moderation actions with respect to the legal definition of censorship is not going to be especially helpful, as it's only collaterally relevant to how we work. A great deal of thought and effort went into crafting the Universal Rules. Similar effort goes into every review, modification or addition to those rules. Additionally, we have a team culture that is centered around letting people speak their mind wherever possible. We've never had anyone "casually" remove something because the way we recruit, screen and train moderators very much focuses on having the _opposite_ instinct. In the old days, we had a small time and the workload was heavy. Now, we have a much larger, more stable group that relies less on individual effort and perspective. It's a good team doing something they enjoy and I'm very proud of them.
Are you going to do anything about it or just pretended that everything is fine? Your lads are having a wild west here, my comment was deleted because I stated an opinion that the argument was "idiotic". Am I not allowed to have an opinion anymore? Maybe I can express only positive opinions about different matters and whenever I'm are having a negative opinion about someone's idea I'm not allowed to say it because I might hurt his feelings? What rules have I violated? Please tell me. Was there some cursing in my comment? No. Was there racial slurs or something like that? No. I just said that his argument was idiotic and because for some reason you cannot criticize him, my comment got deleted. This is a clear step behind the line, the mod was not objective here, he didn't like the fact that I think that his argument was stupid, so he censored me. And yes rujitra, that's what censorship is. When you delete someone's comments because you don't like them, not because they violate any rules. Here is another example of a comment of mine that got deleted for no reason: https://imgur.com/a/7PWSaez Any curse words? No. Any racial slurs? No. Any good reason to delete it? No. He just didn't like it, so he delete it. Else tell me what rules is this comment violating. Free speech?
rujitra (NA)
: No, it really is the same. You trying to veil your insults by phrasing them differently isn't an excuse to insult people. And the moderators can delete your posts for whatever reason they want, actually. If you have an issue with it, go ask a Herald in the discord server to review it.
The support ticket has been already sent. You can't delete peoples comments because you do not agree with them. Who are you to usurp right whether someone meant something or didn't? You are here to control the flow of threads, not to interpret it. I said that the argument was idiotic because I think that the argument is idiotic. I don't care if you felt offended for whatever reason precious snowflake, you are not here to dictate whether someone meant something or not. The comment didn't violate anything, it was just you that felt bead because you lost an argument so you take vengeance with your lads.
Rioter Comments
: And thr Government isn't saying you can't say something. A Private Company you are using the services of is. Free Speech does not mean Free of Consequence.
What you mean? What consequences? Consequences of having an opinion? I don't remember that riot has in their rules "having an opinion is violation, there will be consequences", are you actually hearing what your saying? I said that the argument was idiotic because I thought that it was idiotic, that an opinion. On what bases is this a violation of any rule?
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T17:57:30.535+0000) > > Well I felt that the need was there. You are not the one to state whether there was a need or there wasn't. The comment was my personal reflection on the matter. > > It wasn't just argument, it was an idiotic argument, therefore I said "idiotic" as a description in front of it. You can't censor people because you don't like word "idiotic". Free speech is a free speech. You’re right, you do have free speech. You also have the right to have your posts removed for violating the rules that are in place.
Alright, what rules have my post violated exactly? Free speech? Describing an argument as idiotic is not "violation" of any rules. And if I would say that strawberries are red, would that be a violation of rules? This is a clear abuse of mods powers. He did not agree with me so he deleted the comment.
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-21T17:24:09.316+0000) > > All right, this can't get any more ridiculous. , > > I'm saying that the argument is idiotic.... that something that doesn't live, that doesn't have thoughts is idiotic... > > person =/= argument > > You cannot censor me because you don't like the fact that I don't agree with you. > "That is an aggressive stance" what's even that? There is no such thing. Someone made an argument and I have stated that it is idiotic. There is no such thing as "That is an aggressive stance". > > Your comment to my post if for me "is an aggressive stance", you get your comment deleted. Can you see the stupidity of that sentence? > > Also in the previous comment the person was saying that the current system is bad and he was arguing that it is not fair. I agreed with him. If you disagree with a person’s opinion you simply state as much. There is no need to use words like “idiotic” or “stupidity” when disagreeing with somebody.
Well I felt that the need was there. You are not the one to state whether there was a need or there wasn't. The comment was my personal reflection on the matter. It wasn't just argument, it was an idiotic argument, therefore I said "idiotic" as a description in front of it. You can't censor people because you don't like word "idiotic". Free speech is a free speech.
Julevi (EUW)
: Oh jeez - yeah, we live in a true dictatorship full of moderators here who are keen to limit your thought & comments. /s You broke the rules and therefore the post gets removed. Before "threatening" them with "contacting the support" - how about you take a bit more time, reflect your own behaviour and have a decent discussion here?
What rules exactly have I broken? By saying that an argument is idiotic? Are you joking? Censorship is censorship. You don't need a dystopia to have a mod that emoves your comments although it has not broke nay rule. btw. I'm not threatening, I already sent it. I really wont feel any guilt after stating that an argument was idiotic.
: Text limit probably left out this part. > Don't try to explain this to AeroWaffle, he is logic-proof.
And if I'll say that AeroWaffle is short, has blue eyes, has a bad breath... will you delete my comment and ban my account? You can't remove comments because you don't like them. Logic-proof is a statement. I have stated that he is immune to logic, I observed it and stated it.
: I probably would have edited the insults out of your first paragraph (pertaining to Rujitra and the "idiotic arguments), but you also had insulted another poster in your last line ~~ (that is not present in this [OP](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/TeAqEdjt-this-comment-was-deleted-by-periscope-anyone-tell-me-why)).~~ Even though I don't agree with the rest of your post regarding changes to the punishment system, you're fine to make those suggestions. Just leave the insults out. Edit: I can see from the removal "Don't try to explain this to AeroWaffle, he is logic-proof." was left off. Thanks.
Saying that someones argument was idiotic is not the same as saying that the person is an idiot. A sentence "idiotic argument" means that the argument is idiotic. This is an opinion, you can't censor me for an opinion. That's not insulting anyone or maybe the argument itself feels offended because he has a conscious? Also, who's the " another poster" insulted by me in the last line? His nickname please. I don't care if you agree with me or not, your not here to agree with any of us, you are here to keep the forum clean from spam and bad behavior. You cannot delete posts because you don't like them and that's what you did here. I said that the argument was idiotic, you didn't like that, so you deleted it, there was no insults here involved, so I had nothing to leave out.
: > [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=Eb29BZrZ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-17T19:08:22.349+0000) > > PB boards is terrible is different than PB posters are terrible, but OK............. What makes the PB board terrible in comparison to Gameplay or General? The thread had a subject specifically about INT/GRIEF/Trolls.
That doesn't matter. He just made a point, he said what he was thinking and Periscope had no right to delete it. He thought that PB board was terrible, he said that and his comment got deleted.
: If you have a specific complaint, I'd suggest opening your own discussion elsewhere or going to the boards discord.
I did and even if I didn't I'm free to comment here, because it's an open subject. You removed the post because you did not agreed with him that PB board is terrible in comparison to Gameplay or General. There is no other explanation for that. He just made a stance, said what he was thinking and you deleted his comment. That's a censorship.
: “They will just flood you with idiotic arguments” That is an aggressive stance, regardless of its authenticity. Also, what happened to the previous segment? Your post starts off as if continuing from a previous sentence.
This get's sent anyways to support. This is an obvious case of moderators abusing their power. They cannot delete my comment because they do not agree with me, that's censorship.
: “They will just flood you with idiotic arguments” That is an aggressive stance, regardless of its authenticity. Also, what happened to the previous segment? Your post starts off as if continuing from a previous sentence.
All right, this can't get any more ridiculous. , I'm saying that the argument is idiotic.... that something that doesn't live, that doesn't have thoughts is idiotic... person =/= argument You cannot censor me because you don't like the fact that I don't agree with you. "That is an aggressive stance" what's even that? There is no such thing. Someone made an argument and I have stated that it is idiotic. There is no such thing as "That is an aggressive stance". Your comment to my post if for me "is an aggressive stance", you get your comment deleted. Can you see the stupidity of that sentence? Also in the previous comment the person was saying that the current system is bad and he was arguing that it is not fair. I agreed with him.
Hotarµ (NA)
: Aside from being wildly inaccurate in some spots (although that's not exactly against the rules) you're calling the majority of people who disagree with you idiots and specifically calling out someone by name. That definitely constitutes harassment and doesn't exactly promote good discussion.
I said that the argument is idiotic.... idiotic arguments =/= this person is an idiot Or maybe your having some comprehending difficulties?
: You seem to be leaving out part of the post that was removed. If that was intentional then it shows that you do know why it was removed.
What have I removed? https://imgur.com/a/kebacsZ
: Question Riots Censorship
You nailed it. The mods here actually are not respecting the rules themselves and do whatever they want. Your comment can have 0 curse words, if they don't like it, they will delete it. Great example few threads above you. One guy said that PB is a terrible place to comment.... they deleted the post xD
: Hey, That seemed like a pretty negative comment regarding the PB community. It also didn't add anything to the player's discussion. Unrelated to your removal, but the discussion appears to be in the correct sub-forum since he's talking about discussion with other players.
He is right actually, you removed the post not because it violated anything, but because you didn't like the sound of it. Double standards here I guess.
Rioter Comments
: I'm not up to date with Diana mechanics, but I'm pretty sure what your describing was an intentional change with the most recent patch. "Can no longer be reset twice when a reset was timed with a new application of Crescent Strike Moonlight"
Why would Zhanos change that? I already told him that no one wants that... why would he weaken the champ even more? There are millions, literally millions of things Diana struggles with and does something no one asked for... what a fool. If you check out r/DianaMains people are begging about some changes that would make her vital in jg again. Some E changes which is useless as hell, making her R a skillshot. Literally millions of ideas to make her vital and he goes for removal of something that makes her playable in daimon+. If you can dodge Diana's Q, she is a minion. All high elo players can do that. No Q means you are unable to do anything.... R+Q was the only alternative way you could engage.... why would he change that?
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2c1Os1EB,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T12:14:53.166+0000) > > In HotS you get a bot that plays well. The bot is not better than real gold-elo playe, but is better for sure than a troll or a feeder. This is not abused in Hots, so far everyone seems to like this idea. That would be even worse than being 4v5. In League the bot players might as well be money bags. In HotS killing enemies actually has very little benefit more than just removing them from the battle in comparison. > Following your logic no ones honor should be decreased because some asshole thinks that calling him "0/10 useless yasuo" is offensive (it's stating a fact). > > 0/10 is 0/10 no matter if you call this "a bad game" or a feeding. A player should want to be a better player. If you lose lane constantly maybe it's time to learn how to win a lane, a good motivation for this would be regaining honor that was decreased for constantly losing your lane. If I feed an enemy Darius so mid-game he can solo all 4 from my team no matter how well they are doing, the responsibility lies on me, not on my midlaner that does his best but Darius is too fed, not on my jg that does his best but darius is too fed, not on my bot that does their best but darius is too fed. It's on me, because I fed, no matter if it was int or a bad game. If my honor stays the same, what makes me then wanting to become a better player? > All 4 of my teammates got banned for flaming me because I fed, although they carried the game, but I didn't get any punishment, so I don't care. I have nothing to worry about, my honor will stay the same (or maybe even grow) so I don't need to try my best at next game. You're not their coach, you're just some salty player reporting them. > > Well I think they can. A troll is a troll. If you are a gold elo and you run into enemy tower just to suicide this is a troll, not a "bad game" or any idiotic argument like that. A troll is a troll. Teemo with 1/14 with mikaels and duskblade is a troll, there is no other name for it. Not your place to decide. And when I think about people who are untrustworthy you and people like you makes it so.
> That would be even worse than being 4v5. In League the bot players might as well be money bags. In HotS killing enemies actually has very little benefit more than just removing them from the battle in comparison. What you mean? If you die multiple times you give 0 gold. If a player that died multiple times got replaced by bot that plays his character, if the bot gets killed he gives 0 gold. Well I don't know what about you but I actually prefer to have a teammate to does something rather than a troll or no one. Yorick's maiden is a bot but shes quite strong and gives only 10 gold if killed. I don't see a problem to get something like that in exchange for a troll. > You're not their coach, you're just some salty player reporting them. Whenever you are reporting a flamer: " You're not their social mentor, you're just some noob player reporting them." That's my argument according to your logic. > Not your place to decide. And when I think about people who are untrustworthy you and people like you makes it so. Well if I'm not the one to decide, you are not the one to decide who is untrustworthy and a flamer either. Everyone feel different things subjectively, therefore someone perceives things like "sell skin" as the greatest insult and others are normal and don't get offended by something like that. The difference between me and you is that I don't try to make buying 5 mobility boots as something normal, which is not (agreed by Umbral Regent and removed by rito for a reason after millions of minused posts from my side), because I tell it like it is. On the other hand for some reason you earnestly are trying to make 5 moblility boots build as something normal, not troll-like although you know yourself that it is not. I'd say you are doing that just for sake of being on the other side of the conflict that I am, just because you don't like me because I didn't get banned.
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2c1Os1EB,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-07-21T11:48:39.907+0000) > > Yeah, where is the ban. You reported me long ago, where is the ban m8? I already responded to you on this a bit ago. It's on you to find it if you've forgotten about it. I don't see you playing on the account anyway. > 1/15 teemo with duskblade and mikales _ 30 cs is 100% troll. If you can't see that you have issues with your brain. I'm not about to trust anything coming from you. So I don't even see the "1/15 teemo with duskblade and mikales _ 30 cs" game. It's also irrelevant. Riot is not there sitting over your shoulder and manually reviewing every game. Because some people are so shit at judging if the person playing poorly is doing it intentionally or not they can't trust a word you say until either the automatic system confirms it or they get the time to get a manual review done.
What items they've built is irrelevant... are you hearing yourself? And if they would built 5 mobility boots, would that be cool as well? You don't have to trust me on word, I'm not you. I use evidences. You can always see the screenshot I've supplied, then you would see that the teemo was an obvious case off troll. And coming back on the ban on me. How does the "not playing on the acc" has to do with the ban? The ban meant to be for a **past** game of mine. Where is the ban?
: > You don't know this for certain. Well as I said the guy texted me myself laughing, I think the source is trustworthy enough, let's add to that that I've seen his match history and everyday he plays couple of games. You can't play games with ban, therefore he got no ban. Now the question is, did he made more harm with trolling or maybe someone that flames that you can mute does more harm? For me option number one. Trolling is trolling. It's destroying the game and players can't do nothing about it, therefore it should be banable. You can always remove a chat in a game entirely (pings are more than enough if you want to communicate in a game, high elo games are proving this, where no chat is used by players). No chat means no flame. You can always put flamers in a separate queue (prison island idea) where flamers play only with flamers and everyone are happy, but you can't do anything with trolls.... Can I "mute" troll so he stops trolling.... well no. Can I kick him and get a decent bot in his place that obviously is not as good as a real player but at least he doesn't troll.... well not really. So what can I do? I can report him and write a big ass long comment proving his fault (mejais + duskblade + 1/14 on teemo is more than enough). A riot employee will read this comment in depth and.... wipe his ass with it. Next day the guy plays nunu support with mobility boots, yommus and 0/10 stats... but I guess he just had a bad game. Am I right? > Besides, a bot would do you no better than a troll in a PVP match. I'd argue with that. When I say "troll" I mean a nunu that is running around the map with the snowball that suicides under turrets. A bot would at least build right items and use some skill from time to time. If 4 premades kick a normal player and replace him with a bot... well that's their problem. I don't want to struggle for 40 minutes because my trolling premades don't want to surr and enemy team does so well in the game that they don't want to finish.... I'd say I take a bot, and although the bot is not perfect it will heal you from time to time with that soraka instead of dancing in a dragon pit whole game. You know what I mean? > How in the world do you know whether or not someone had an Honor decrease? As I said the guy added me to friends list and told me after I told him he's getting a ban for that and that we will rep him. The enemy team told us they will rep him as well. End of a match, he adds me to friends lists and tells me that he didn't even got a honor decrease. That's what pushed me to create this topic. > Mocking rujitra for withholding judgement for lack of reliable information doesn't serve to reinforce your point What you mean "reliable information", see the screenshot there. Look at teemos build and stats... like what more evidence am I required to supply?? I'm the jerk here because I dared to say that teemo is trolling and "maybe he had a bad game".... What other type of game could he have if he builds mikaels and duskblade on teemo??? Like seriously, why am I the evil one here, why am I the evil one, because I think tha trolling is not okay, and that trolling does more damage to the game than saying that someone is useless because he is in fact useless?? I mock rujitra because he **ALWAYS** says that, NO MATTER OF WHAT EVIDENCE I SHOW HIM. Well maybe it's time to realize that in fact people are not always having a bad game and they just troll. But I guess I should be punished here, because I dared to make that post, please ban me immediately because I offended feelings of every teemo player in the game that sucks and builds some trolling stuff.... wait, I didn't meant toll build, I meant "a build that usually is highly connected with experiencing a bad game". What I was having there is not a bad game? That teemo and lucian were not having a bad game, they were having a laugh. Me and the 2 normal people in my team were having a bad game, but we are risking now a ban because you are not allowed to feel mad at troll.... It's not a big deal, just 40 minutes wasted and effort, meanwhile he was having a good time running around map and trolling. > Frankly, I wouldn't. The moment you start pulling that derisive alternating caps case, you lose any vestige of good faith in your post. Obviously. I use caps to highlight things that hurt me but yeah... let's not see the facts I supplied there. Let's ignore the screenshot, THE GUY USED CAPS SO HE MUST BE WRONG xD Oh, wait... did I use it again? I don't know what about you guys, but when I read someones complaint I focus on arguments for most of the time, no matter of minuses or the sound of the text and I do not intend to change anything, just because the boards masses might not like the sound of it. ..Removed by Moderation.. I'm saying that just so you know that I do not intend to beg you on my knees for some attention, I'm here to highlight something. If you want to discuss with me you have to know that I'm open for discussion, but I mean a real discussion, not "adjusting" myself to your current policy only because Periscope might come and ban me. > Aren't boots unique, unstackable items now This was me referring to a stereotypical troll. It's almost iconic that they build 5 mobility boots. I didn't meant an actually guy that I met in a game few days ago, it was a rhetorical figure to kinda focus you to thinking that being bad at the game is not always just being bad at the game. Building 5 mobility boots (although its not possible anymore) is **not** an example of having a bad game in this case, because building 5 mobility boots is not connected with your laning abilities. Like seriously, do I really have to explain this in depth? I was thinking that you guys got the idea. > the community does a poor job of it Alright. I accept your line here. How can I help? How can community help? It would be nice if you would inform us (community) what to do in order to help you, so far I haven't seen any message form you to tell me what to do to help you catch the trolls faster. I would be glad to do that. On the other hand I've seen community proposing their solutions millions of times, here are two I like most: - Bring back tribunal (now community can help you to deal with trolls and others) - Make honor decrease when a player plays bad for multiple games(bad game and trolling). That way if you had multiple 0/10 games, you honor will decrease and become a reason for you to get better (maybe watch some yt videos how to get better, or maybe next time focus on the game instead of playing effortlessly, so your team doesn't have to deal with 10/0 5 minutes into game Darius and flame you). Seems fair to me. ..Removed by Moderation.. Well if they had a bad game.... multiple times in a row (meaning their team lost because of them) that means that they do not contribute enough and lol is a team game from what I can remember, everyone should try their best. Running around map with 1/14 teemo with mikaels and duskblade is not not trying your best. > If they just got off of a 14-day ban and continue to belligerently harass their teammates, it's absolutely more than fair that they get permabanned. It is not. Saying to 0/10 Yasuo that he is a "0/10 yasuo" is not a harass, it is stating of a fact! Sorry, but I don't think that people should get punished for saying the truth, although it might be unpleasant. Flame should never be permabanable because flamers can **ALWAYS** be muted. Also as I said flamers can have no access to chat (no chat no flame) and they can be always queued with other flamers. **That is not the case with trolls**. Trolls cannot be "muted" so they are not trolling, trolls cannot be kicked and replaced with bot because you don't like the idea, trolls are (in your view) hard to determine, therefore they usually get away with their dirty habit. You can flame but still win the game and cooperate well, flame is caused by strong emotions usually because you are the one who carries and you realize that if you make a mistake - you lose. This makes players being highly annoyed by players that throw the game intentionally, because this destroys all of their efforts. If you would build a caste out of cards for hours, how would you feel if I would run destroy it without caring much? Would you feel happy? Punishing people because they try their best is not optimal behavior for a game company in my view. And as I said if you don't like what they say you can always mute them or take their chat access away from them. Trolling is something totally different. People don't flame because they feel pleasure from it, they usually flame because they feel grief and their emotions are trying to escape. Trolls troll because they feel pleasure in destroying someone's game. They are much worse, because normal people flame from time to time (you did flame as well, don't lie), people tend to get mad at their teammates and this is completely normal in **every game in the entire world**, so what do they do? They flame. But hey, dont' forget that if you don't like it you can always mute. Normal people **do not troll**. Because normal people don't find pleasure in destroying things. Normal people find pleasure in winning, not in destroying , therefore all players that ever played lol have said unpleasant things on chat at least once, but **not all** have intentionally destroyed someones game. Because wanting to win is normal, but wanting your teammates to lose is not.
Adding to that. Trolling can't be muted and you are forced to sit with them up till the end if there are two of them and they don't want to surr. Concluding: Trolling is the ultimate way of destroying the game that players cannot do anything about it, therefore it should be the thing that gets highest punishment (premaban). Players have tools to fight flame, therefore flame should be punishable (with no chat or 14 day bans) but never with permaban. I think that someone that intentionally destroyed your promo deserves a punishment more than someone that told you "sell skin". > against the rules you agreed to upon creating an account to begin with. Wrong. Correct version "not against the rules you agreed to upon creating an account to begin with, but against the rules that were created in a meantime after years". I still think that a troll deserves a ban and a person that feels grief because all of his efforts are ruined deserves a chat restrict or a 14-dayer in worst case. > If there is the possibility that they didn't intend to play poorly, if it cannot be proven without a shadow of a doubt that they intended to sabotage the game, then Riot must stay their hand. I understand. I will troll whole match, but at the end I'll get one item right **Removed by Moderation** so others will say because it's hard to determine that suiciding into enemy turret 10 times in a row is not what you supposed to be doing. . . . . . . Oh, It happened that you told me that I'm low in a team chat because you got frustrated that I ran into enemy turret 10 times... brace yourself, the permaban is coming. Most weird sense of justice you have there at riot HQ. **Removed by Moderation** > don't expect any sympathy from us when it inevitably comes back to bite you. Thanks for words of care. Riot has bitten me so many times that by now I'm all covered in scars.
: Where on Earth do I even start with this... > Effect -> nothing. You don't know this for certain. Unless you have a reliable source of information about whether or not a player is punished, alongside something to tell the future (because not all punishments happen immediately), _you can't know for absolute certain what the effect was._ > Thanks guys for such wonderful system where for saying "sell skin" or "useless jg" you are getting a permaban... Coming off of a 14-day ban, you'd get a permaban for that. Don't act like Riot just drops the ban hammer for chat offenses on a whim, toxic players work their way up to that point with consistent misbehavior. > ...meanwhile for trolling the game you get nothing. [Are](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/E4LnThmW-most-ridiculous-chat-restriction-i-have-ever-seen-in-my-life?comment=0011) you [absolutely](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KHAL90oW-stuck-at-honor-zero?comment=0003), positively, [100%](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/3jEVVlsY-permanently-banned-with-ingame-log?comment=003e), without [a](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/jFwTE8Oj-playing-off-meta-in-ranked-int-feeding-ban?comment=0039) shadow [of](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/sU5wOfFJ-proof-that-the-automated-system-is-broken?show=rundown) a [doubt](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/GrmPK5yP-intentional-feeding-but-i-didnt-feed?comment=0006) certain [about](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/MKBQUoKd-banned-for-intentionally-feeding) that? [Because](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KTq4tjIF-i-dont-get-it-how-riot-bans-a-player-because-another-kid-draven-decides-to-take-all-the-kills), surely, [you](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/xW5z7auF-proof-that-riot-employees-ban-without-providing-clear-evidencecertainty-of-an-infraction) realize [there's](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/RAfb0McT-got-banned-for-intentional-feeding-for-a-game-with-02-death) evidence to [the contrary](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/f9P7YRXv-bad-game-i-guess). There's eleven examples of players punished for trolling. Even one of those examples would be suitable to prove you wrong, but points are seldom proven on one example - nevermind _zero_. > So let's just sum up, what tool do people have against trolls in their team? The post-game report feature and Support Tickets. They aren't immediately satisfying, but they're the tools that you have at your disposal. > Can they kick out a player and replace him with bot the way it's done in HotS? The ability to kick players from a match-in-progress in League is a topic that's been done to death, and the consensus is that it could _very_ easily be abused by premades and would cull off-meta strategies and people who, for whatever reason, happen to underperform in any given match. Besides, a bot would do you no better than a troll in a PVP match. Don't ask for something you don't actually want. > Okay, so maybe what about the report? > > ... > > They must have got at least honor decrease for sure.... nope. How in the world do you know whether or not someone had an Honor decrease? Are you breaking into Riot's servers and extracting information you're not supposed to have? Or are you just throwing out assumptions in the hopes that it'll suffice as an argument? > ..Removed by Moderation.. Mocking players for withholding judgement for lack of reliable information doesn't serve to reinforce your point. By default, we tend to err on the possibility that a player had a bad game _because people are known to be petty jerks who'll try to pen the blame on someone else and vilify them in any way they can_ - and in League, that typically involves painting someone as a troll so they can act like someone went out of their way to ruin their game, when in fact they just got outskilled and had their ass thoroughly handed to them. > I'm creating this post because each time we are having an argument about that, you always say the same thing all over again, ALWAYS! And this post only furthers the stereotype that we try to avoid validating by saying that. Yes, you may well have run into a troll, but is anybody going to give a damn if you start slinging mud because people don't immediately assume foul play on every low score? Frankly, I wouldn't. The moment you start pulling that derisive alternating caps case, you lose any vestige of good faith in your post. > ..Removed by Moderation.. Aren't boots unique, unstackable items now, or am I just conflating the Tear-stack change a while ago with being only able to buy one boots item? Regardless, obvious cases of trolling tend to get punished faster. Building useless/detrimental items is pretty easy to notice, which, to my knowledge, is why it's not seen all that often. > Trolling exists and Riot does very little to help people fight it. The fight against trolls is a war on two fronts - and, whether you believe it or not, Riot _is_ doing their damnedest on their end. The other end belongs to us players, and frankly, the community does a poor job of it. Crying "wolf" over pugs, and raising arguments over how trolls are dealt with and how we should respond to them - like right now, even - doesn't help Riot catch trolls any faster. I have to wonder why people take that stretch of logic, where having difficulty doing something equates to not actually doing it. Have I ever actually played Dark Souls, then, given how difficult of a game it is? Did I really actually beat For Honor on Realistic difficulty, or, did it not actually happen because it was difficult? I will never understand that line of thinking. > But I guess it is fair to permaban people for saying "useless yasuo 0/10"... If they just got off of a 14-day ban and continue to belligerently harass their teammates, it's absolutely more than fair that they get permabanned. > ...although you can always mute them... Having a mitigation tool does not change that the misbehavior being mitigated is, say it with me now, **_against the rules you agreed to upon creating an account to begin with._** > ...but it is not fair to ban people for trolling because "maybe they had a bad game". If there is the possibility that they didn't intend to play poorly, if it cannot be proven without a shadow of a doubt that they intended to sabotage the game, then Riot must stay their hand. _Intent_ is the operative factor in gameplay-related punishments, not score, not builds; _**intent**_. The other factors may contribute to figuring out the intent, but they are not in and of themselves concrete evidence of misbehavior. > ...now I know that whenever I'm suiciding into enemy team and throwing the match.... I'm just having a bad game. I also know that building mikaels on teemo and having 1/14 stats is the way ;) If you do troll, don't expect any sympathy from us when it inevitably comes back to bite you.
> You don't know this for certain. Well as I said the guy texted me myself laughing, I think the source is trustworthy enough, let's add to that that I've seen his match history and everyday he plays couple of games. You can't play games with ban, therefore he got no ban. Now the question is, did he made more harm with trolling or maybe someone that flames that you can mute does more harm? For me option number one. Trolling is trolling. It's destroying the game and players can't do nothing about it, therefore it should be banable. You can always remove a chat in a game entirely (pings are more than enough if you want to communicate in a game, high elo games are proving this, where no chat is used by players). No chat means no flame. You can always put flamers in a separate queue (prison island idea) where flamers play only with flamers and everyone are happy, but you can't do anything with trolls.... Can I "mute" troll so he stops trolling.... well no. Can I kick him and get a decent bot in his place that obviously is not as good as a real player but at least he doesn't troll.... well not really. So what can I do? I can report him and write a big ass long comment proving his fault (mejais + duskblade + 1/14 on teemo is more than enough). A riot employee will read this comment in depth and.... wipe his ass with it. Next day the guy plays nunu support with mobility boots, yommus and 0/10 stats... but I guess he just had a bad game. Am I right? > Besides, a bot would do you no better than a troll in a PVP match. I'd argue with that. When I say "troll" I mean a nunu that is running around the map with the snowball that suicides under turrets. A bot would at least build right items and use some skill from time to time. If 4 premades kick a normal player and replace him with a bot... well that's their problem. I don't want to struggle for 40 minutes because my trolling premades don't want to surr and enemy team does so well in the game that they don't want to finish.... I'd say I take a bot, and although the bot is not perfect it will heal you from time to time with that soraka instead of dancing in a dragon pit whole game. You know what I mean? > How in the world do you know whether or not someone had an Honor decrease? As I said the guy added me to friends list and told me after I told him he's getting a ban for that and that we will rep him. The enemy team told us they will rep him as well. End of a match, he adds me to friends lists and tells me that he didn't even got a honor decrease. That's what pushed me to create this topic. > Mocking rujitra for withholding judgement for lack of reliable information doesn't serve to reinforce your point What you mean "reliable information", see the screenshot there. Look at teemos build and stats... like what more evidence am I required to supply?? I'm the jerk here because I dared to say that teemo is trolling and "maybe he had a bad game".... What other type of game could he have if he builds mikaels and duskblade on teemo??? Like seriously, why am I the evil one here, why am I the evil one, because I think tha trolling is not okay, and that trolling does more damage to the game than saying that someone is useless because he is in fact useless?? I mock rujitra because he **ALWAYS** says that, NO MATTER OF WHAT EVIDENCE I SHOW HIM. Well maybe it's time to realize that in fact people are not always having a bad game and they just troll. But I guess I should be punished here, because I dared to make that post, please ban me immediately because I offended feelings of every teemo player in the game that sucks and builds some trolling stuff.... wait, I didn't meant toll build, I meant "a build that usually is highly connected with experiencing a bad game". What I was having there is not a bad game? That teemo and lucian were not having a bad game, they were having a laugh. Me and the 2 normal people in my team were having a bad game, but we are risking now a ban because you are not allowed to feel mad at troll.... It's not a big deal, just 40 minutes wasted and effort, meanwhile he was having a good time running around map and trolling. > Frankly, I wouldn't. The moment you start pulling that derisive alternating caps case, you lose any vestige of good faith in your post. Obviously. I use caps to highlight things that hurt me but yeah... let's not see the facts I supplied there. Let's ignore the screenshot, THE GUY USED CAPS SO HE MUST BE WRONG xD Oh, wait... did I use it again? I don't know what about you guys, but when I read someones complaint I focus on arguments for most of the time, no matter of minuses or the sound of the text and I do not intend to change anything, just because the boards masses might not like the sound of it. ..Removed by Moderation.. I'm saying that just so you know that I do not intend to beg you on my knees for some attention, I'm here to highlight something. If you want to discuss with me you have to know that I'm open for discussion, but I mean a real discussion, not "adjusting" myself to your current policy only because Periscope might come and ban me. > Aren't boots unique, unstackable items now This was me referring to a stereotypical troll. It's almost iconic that they build 5 mobility boots. I didn't meant an actually guy that I met in a game few days ago, it was a rhetorical figure to kinda focus you to thinking that being bad at the game is not always just being bad at the game. Building 5 mobility boots (although its not possible anymore) is **not** an example of having a bad game in this case, because building 5 mobility boots is not connected with your laning abilities. Like seriously, do I really have to explain this in depth? I was thinking that you guys got the idea. > the community does a poor job of it Alright. I accept your line here. How can I help? How can community help? It would be nice if you would inform us (community) what to do in order to help you, so far I haven't seen any message form you to tell me what to do to help you catch the trolls faster. I would be glad to do that. On the other hand I've seen community proposing their solutions millions of times, here are two I like most: - Bring back tribunal (now community can help you to deal with trolls and others) - Make honor decrease when a player plays bad for multiple games(bad game and trolling). That way if you had multiple 0/10 games, you honor will decrease and become a reason for you to get better (maybe watch some yt videos how to get better, or maybe next time focus on the game instead of playing effortlessly, so your team doesn't have to deal with 10/0 5 minutes into game Darius and flame you). Seems fair to me. ..Removed by Moderation.. Well if they had a bad game.... multiple times in a row (meaning their team lost because of them) that means that they do not contribute enough and lol is a team game from what I can remember, everyone should try their best. Running around map with 1/14 teemo with mikaels and duskblade is not not trying your best. > If they just got off of a 14-day ban and continue to belligerently harass their teammates, it's absolutely more than fair that they get permabanned. It is not. Saying to 0/10 Yasuo that he is a "0/10 yasuo" is not a harass, it is stating of a fact! Sorry, but I don't think that people should get punished for saying the truth, although it might be unpleasant. Flame should never be permabanable because flamers can **ALWAYS** be muted. Also as I said flamers can have no access to chat (no chat no flame) and they can be always queued with other flamers. **That is not the case with trolls**. Trolls cannot be "muted" so they are not trolling, trolls cannot be kicked and replaced with bot because you don't like the idea, trolls are (in your view) hard to determine, therefore they usually get away with their dirty habit. You can flame but still win the game and cooperate well, flame is caused by strong emotions usually because you are the one who carries and you realize that if you make a mistake - you lose. This makes players being highly annoyed by players that throw the game intentionally, because this destroys all of their efforts. If you would build a caste out of cards for hours, how would you feel if I would run destroy it without caring much? Would you feel happy? Punishing people because they try their best is not optimal behavior for a game company in my view. And as I said if you don't like what they say you can always mute them or take their chat access away from them. Trolling is something totally different. People don't flame because they feel pleasure from it, they usually flame because they feel grief and their emotions are trying to escape. Trolls troll because they feel pleasure in destroying someone's game. They are much worse, because normal people flame from time to time (you did flame as well, don't lie), people tend to get mad at their teammates and this is completely normal in **every game in the entire world**, so what do they do? They flame. But hey, dont' forget that if you don't like it you can always mute. Normal people **do not troll**. Because normal people don't find pleasure in destroying things. Normal people find pleasure in winning, not in destroying , therefore all players that ever played lol have said unpleasant things on chat at least once, but **not all** have intentionally destroyed someones game. Because wanting to win is normal, but wanting your teammates to lose is not.
: >give us the ability to kick teammates Can easily be abused especially since some people are quick to assume someone is intentionally feeding when someone does poorly. It also leaves the team in a 4v5 situation which really isn't any better. >give us the ability to decrease honor progress of a trolling/toxic asshat little by little with each report Reports by themselves are coming from an untrustworthy source. No one's honor should be decreased because some asshole thinks it's intentionally feeding because a player lost their lane. >give us the ability to review games where some1 trolled Once again, a player can't be trusted. I don't relish the thought that games might be reviewed by people who are quick to assume someone is intentionally feeding when someone does poorly. Just because you're not happy with the frequency of trolls being caught doesn't mean that Riot should implement something that will cause a bunch of incorrect bans or cause people to get kicked for false reasons.
> Can easily be abused especially since some people are quick to assume someone is intentionally feeding when someone does poorly. It also leaves the team in a 4v5 situation which really isn't any better. In HotS you get a bot that plays well. The bot is not better than real gold-elo playe, but is better for sure than a troll or a feeder. This is not abused in Hots, so far everyone seems to like this idea. > Reports by themselves are coming from an untrustworthy source. No one's honor should be decreased because some asshole thinks it's intentionally feeding because a player lost their lane. Following your logic no ones honor should be decreased because some asshole thinks that calling him "0/10 useless yasuo" is offensive (it's stating a fact). 0/10 is 0/10 no matter if you call this "a bad game" or a feeding. A player should want to be a better player. If you lose lane constantly maybe it's time to learn how to win a lane, a good motivation for this would be regaining honor that was decreased for constantly losing your lane. If I feed an enemy Darius so mid-game he can solo all 4 from my team no matter how well they are doing, the responsibility lies on me, not on my midlaner that does his best but Darius is too fed, not on my jg that does his best but darius is too fed, not on my bot that does their best but darius is too fed. It's on me, because I fed, no matter if it was int or a bad game. If my honor stays the same, what makes me then wanting to become a better player? All 4 of my teammates got banned for flaming me because I fed, although they carried the game, but I didn't get any punishment, so I don't care. I have nothing to worry about, my honor will stay the same (or maybe even grow) so I don't need to try my best at next game. > Once again, a player can't be trusted. I don't relish the thought that games might be reviewed by people who are quick to assume someone is intentionally feeding when someone does poorly. Well I think they can. A troll is a troll. If you are a gold elo and you run into enemy tower just to suicide this is a troll, not a "bad game" or any idiotic argument like that. A troll is a troll. Teemo with 1/14 with mikaels and duskblade is a troll, there is no other name for it.
Julevi (EUW)
: > Thanks guys for such wonderful system where for saying "sell skin" or "useless jg"; you are getting a permaban, meanwhile for trolling the game you get nothing. Detected trolling will earn you a 14-day-ban - compared to chat-related issues you need to use hate-speech or zero-tolernace words to earn this level of punishment as the first offence. > Lots of people reported them from both teams, they are having 1/14 and build that is obviously a troll build. They must have got at least honor decrease for sure.... nope. May I ask you if you took the time and filed out a support ticket, discussed this game with an employee? > Funniest part is that they didn't want to surr so we had to play whole game although we knew it's lost, their Irelia was 31 kills, full build and could solo penta. We couldn't go afk cuz we would get an extended queue. Going afk once will not harm you a lot - so what? Feel free to leave the game as soon as you saw them "holding you hostage" and endure the 5 minutes longer queue - grab a drink, listen to a song and woops, time is over. > ..Removed by Moderation.. Usually people emphasize the argument with having a bad game as people on the boards tend to exaggerate and have a biased opinion about certain gameplay aspects that influence their ability to view the whole situation more neutral. Come on, rujitra is quite active on the boards - do you have the slightest clue what we encounter here nearly weekly of far-fetched stories about inters or trolls? Edit: You are acting really _mature_ calling your screenshot "rujitra you are a twat".
..Removed by Moderation.. it's not the first time when we had an argument with each other and he's always blind to another sides arguments. Just see the link to the account that got banned that I've posted and read what rujtra said there. ..Removed by Moderation.. How am I exaggerating? I understand your argument, but I have added a screenshot. This is not a story told, I have given you an actual epirical data to prove my point that the guy was definitely not having a bad game, this was a true inting with his premade and they had a laugh. Just look at his build, he knew what he was doing, look at his stats.... look at his premade.... like what more do you want? If they would just have a bad game they would let us surrender. Also a quick look at his match history shows it all. Matches: -> nunu support stats 0/10 with mobility boots and yommu..... seriously m8? This is not a trolling? Than what is? And rujitra will say anyways that he maybe had a bad game xD He just doesn't get that there **ARE** trolls in lol. And it's not just one game, it's multiple games in the row and if you look at the match history they play each day a match. No bans..... Nice system man. I feel tired of this. You can show them a video how the guy suicides into a tower and they will still say that it was a bad game. Just look at rujitra 's arguments under the link I've sent there.
: Come on man they're just having a bad game :^)
I guess xD I guess this teemo with 1/14, duskblade, mikaels and 30 cs in 40 minutes that didnt want to surr with his premade was just having a bad game. Actually he said "gg" at the end of the game so give him that honor 5 and some prizes for keeping it sportsmanlike xD
zPOOPz (NA)
: How long is this game? Are we disregarding all the assists? What average levels of people in this game (I see your account is level 22 if this is the account this game is playing on. You could be playing with or against real beginners for all we know)? Why do you say 1/14 stats and not 1/14/19 stats?
Man this is a smurf acc. I'm playing on multiple accounts but using one to comment because effort of re-logging is too much for me. This is 100% troll I assure you. They were playing together bot and they were premades. Look at teemos build. Duskblade + mikaels and something else with 30 cs. This is 100% troll, assists were done by shrooms. Guys seriously, I cannot make this more vivid. How this + not wanting to surr for 20 minutes is not troling? What is then?
: In this thread: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/OQRkgaFY-riot-wtf You attempted to argue that 2/16 was intentionally feeding while *conveniently* ignoring the 17 assists. And that attitude is what landed you a 14-day ban for that game. Do you know one of the reasons why Riot is careful with their intentional feeding bans and why they can't manual review every single report? Because some people only see two stats. Kills and deaths. And that's not what proves an intentional feeder. But that's not going to stop them from sending tons of worthless reports every time someone plays like shit unintentionally.
Yeah, where is the ban. You reported me long ago, where is the ban m8? 1/15 teemo with duskblade and mikales _ 30 cs is 100% troll. If you can't see that you have issues with your brain. EDIT: I almost forgot that it was two of them. If they had a bad game they would just surr, but they didn't.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=l2NKzNZT,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-07-05T02:25:57.427+0000) > > I'm playing since 2012 and I disagree. > > It's interesting cuz this forum was not existing 7 years ago. Rito was using different forum back then. > It's also interesting cuz I don't remember such number of complains during the tribunal era and old honor system and I'm on lol forums checking out stuff about once a week. http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=41
Seeing more complains about bans there than here? Well I don't, therefore that's why the title says: "Huge increase in bans".
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=l2NKzNZT,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-07-05T02:25:57.427+0000) > > I'm playing since 2012 and I disagree. > > It's interesting cuz this forum was not existing 7 years ago. Rito was using different forum back then. > It's also interesting cuz I don't remember such number of complains during the tribunal era and old honor system and I'm on lol forums checking out stuff about once a week. Did you participate in those tribunals ? They where actually a toxic mess of insults and the community of this board has existed for as long as I have played this game in one iteration or another. The game is better the community is better you can try and deny and tell yourself that everything around you is the problem but it simply has improved year over year. It sounds like you are an individual that struggles to enjoy the game now so you immediately assume the game has a problem and not yourself.
I did and I had 70% rate of success or whatever that was called. Well I never said the tribunal was a massive success, but for sure it was better than the stuff we are having here now. It's not that I assume and struggle etc. but for me it is not fair to ban people for saying stuff like "sell skin" meanwhile your having a troll in your team and nothing is done about that. Well I don't know what about you but I play dozens of multiplayer games and the banning system here is just some sort of a joke. Look at this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KYUeQk5E-thank-you-for-the-memories-riot-games-im-sorry-i-couldnt-improve-and-be-less-toxic-please-read For me this is some sort of a madness, it's not that I've had a bad game or something so I complain. I note facts and see people who got affected and I'm trying to tell you my message. Well I don't know what about you but I just think that banning people because they get emotional is not right, remember that you can always mute a flamer, but you can't do anything about troll.
mack9112 (NA)
: I have been on this board for 7 years the rate of people complaining of being banned has remained constant.
I'm playing since 2012 and I disagree. It's interesting cuz this forum was not existing 7 years ago. Rito was using different forum back then. It's also interesting cuz I don't remember such number of complains during the tribunal era and old honor system and I'm on lol forums checking out stuff about once a week.
: I just started for the arcade event, which now i regret paying for the pass since after 3 hours im already banned LoL! Someone was really toxic an aram match before and i remained calm. The next match i said a few things not expecting a ban! A mute or warning would have made me think about my actions. Ive never got a ban before which is odd and a 14 day seems extreme since i just started again...Oh well, they wont get anymore money out of me. Not that they care anyway..I wont feel like im contributing as much to the team since im just gunna remove the chat all together on my new account to avoid the problem. Everyones got baby ears and everyone is offended.
Exactly man! You are a living proof that the theory is right. You got banned.... but what was the point in first place if you just made a new account? That doesn't make sense.... unless you are tired of grinding blue essence and go for buying RP. And how to make lots of people buy RP that way? Make lots of people banned. And how to do that? Ban for nothing. Beautiful in its simplicity. Why aren't they going for chat removal or separate queue for toxic if they care so much? Why they are allowing toxic players to do the same thing but with new nickname, if it's not for money?
Subdue (NA)
: If you are unfairly (In your mind) kicked out of a movie theater without a refund, would you be chomping at the bit give them more of your money? That's the sort of lunacy you're suggesting here.
Man if you didn't read the thing why are you even answering? Based on your guess what the post is about? Read is again please. To sum up - the post is a theory on why is Riot banning for nothing instead of doing what other developers do (removing chat or letting toxic play with other toxic). The post is about why Riot pumping toxic players again into system is irrational and the suggestion is that they want money from them. What would YOU do if Rito would ban you? Would you quit? Or maybe just make a new account? Why would someone who is addicted to lol quit is just because he got banned? Wouldn't he just make a new account? And if so, what was the point of banning him in first place if he plays the game anyways? Your example with theater is wrong, this is a better example: You are a drug addict and you buy your stuff from some fellaz, but one day after you bought the stuff they beat you up and take it away from you. So what you do as the addict? Go up again to them and pay **again** for the stuff. That way the dealers **forced** you to pay twice.
: I've never understood this lunacy. It confuses the living fuck out of me. So many posts about how Riot's system is shit, and they "only ban people for words," and "never ban trolls or inters," and the "game is dying" and yet they keep pushing that button to queue up for more games. Seriously, some people are in an abusive relationship with this video game and they need to walk away.
What else have you expected? The game was designed to be addictive. You can't take a pack of cigs from a cig addict and expect him to give up just like that. You are the lunatic right now, if you think like that. So what the cig addict does if you take a pact from him? He buys another one. Key word here "buys". What do addicted players do if they get banned for nothing? They make a new account, and what do they if spending years on blue essence grind is too much for them? They buy RP.
: > the increase in bans Increase in bans from when? Did Riot release to you some statistics that you'd like to share with others? An uptick in people crying about their bans on the boards is proof school is over and more people are playing, nothing more. > caused by the new system that bans you for saying stuff like "sell your skin" or "useless jg" New system? Did Riot release to you some information that you'd like to share with others? I'm pretty sure we're using the same automated system that punishes based on severity x frequency. Nobody is getting punished for saying "useless jg" once. They most certainly will for doing it 2 dozen times. You have a very large wall of text based on assumptions and lack of information. You need to do better if you want to get a point across.
Well from what I can remember there used to be a tribunal in past and nowadays we have an automatic system... so yes, its a new system or maybe I'm missing something here and honor system + automatic ban used to be in this game since always. Also I never said that the system bans you for saying "useless jg" once. My point is that it's ridiculous that it takes something like that into consideration. It's funny how all of you are butthurted because I dared to say that the system bans for nothing (because "useless jg" is not toxic), but at the same time all of you are missing the point of the whole text. Why is rito banning for nothing (yes, I still think that counting "sell skin" into toxic behavior should never take place) instead of just removing chat, thus removing toxicity from the game. Pings are more than enough for communication and you need 0 chat for successful game, high elo proves that where there is 0 chat used. Or why is Rito not letting toxic people play with other toxic people only the way its done in other games? Why instead Rito is choosing to pump in old toxic players into the system and let them play but with new accounts? Two propositions seem to be a better option, they were also tested by other developers and they prove to be a good systems, so why is Rito going for something that doesn't solve the problem? "Ahhh yeah.... you don't want to spent next 3 years on grinding the blue essence to get your champs? Just buy those sweet RP." That's my bet. I think this is the reason why Rito is not going for the logical solution. After all money seems to be a logical answer for that, they always are. Let's be honest. The MOBA age is gone and the game is not that fresh anymore. Just see prestigious thingie going on, chromas, weakening orange essence, and this now. I think they try to squeeze most from the game before they will switch for something else. If my theory is right they will slow down with new champions and let the game slowly fall (like HotS is doing now) and regularly move their focus on the new game.
Kei143 (NA)
: Holy moly, that's a long post. I skimmed through the first few paragraphs and noticed that you have some misconceptions. I haven't seen an increase in bans based on the frequency of complaints on theres boards. But you seem to think the system punishes based on certain words spoken, which is not entirely true. The system punishes people based on consistency x severity. Telling people they are a useless jg or sell their skins are considered mild in toxicity, so it requires people to keep up with their toxicity for large amounts of games before they get punished. There are 3 actions people can take after they get permabanned. 1. Quit the game 2. Keep their old attitudes and make a new account 3. Change their attitudes and make a new account For arguement's sake, let's say only 20% of the people permabanned chose to either quit or change their attitudes. It's still 20% reduction in toxicity levels. So permabans do reduce toxicity. The rest, didn't read em.
No wonder you didn't get it If you didn't read the whole post, like seriously I'm sorry if reading is troublesome for some of you guys but I'm not forcing you to read it, just if you are not planning to read everything don't answer as you know only a bit of the theory. The complains about long posts are just funny for me xD If reading scares you, don't do it, just don't get involved in discussion. The increase in bans exists. Nowadays you get banned for "toxicity" actions like "useless jg" and "sell skin" for which you would **never** get banned for in past or during the tribunal era. Just ask Rito for statistics and lets see they actually started banning for nothing or they didn't. Anyways there are 2 actions that solve the toxicity problem completely: 1. Remove chat which is obviously useless because pings are more than enough, high elo players prove this to be right as they don't use chat at all. No chat == no toxicity 2. Put all bad players (let's say people with honor 0) on "punishment island" which is a separate queue for toxic players. That way we separate toxic players from non toxic players and both are happy, because non toxic are not forced to use mute option anymore(which they never really use), and toxic player don't care because they got used to toxicity and words like "useless jg" don't really have much effect on them. How do I know this works? Because HotS are using this system and it proves to work just fine. But those two solutions have a downside. No need to buy RP because those are old accounts with favorite champions and skins already bought. This would be the only reason why Rito is not using any of those two, which are widely spread across other games and work just fine fixing the issue completely. Just think. Why would Rito not go for one of those and instead go for this "recycling" system that pumps back toxic players into the system? This is a true masterminds plan and this is no big surprise, after all they are a company or even corporation I should say, just like Disney, Google and CocaCola. The game is designed to be addictive and I don't see people suddenly giving up on LoL because of one account banned. Like seriously have you ever seen someone going like "oh, I got a ban.... lets just give up on game that I've been playing addictevely for last 10 years everyday and instead go play some chess game". You can't just expect a cigarette addict or a heroin addict to give up on their addiction just like that, because you took their cig pack/heroing gram from them.... they will just get another one and what most important here - pay for it. Also the whole idea of banning for toxicity is just ridiculous as long as there is a chat. People are not born flamers, each one of us is a potential flamer once we lose control over our nerves. If you want to make toxicity gone from the game remove tool that allows people to be toxic or make all humans not play that game anymore, because as long as there are humans playing the video game, they will feel emotion and emotion will trigger them for going toxic. This is just the simple truth. You can have 80% toxic people recycled and making new acc going toxic again. You can have potential 20% people quit the game. But you always can have those extra new 20% that were never toxic before but they just happen to be triggered by someone or the recycled toxic. That's the truth. Noone is born toxic and noone is toxic without a reason, it's usually one guy that starts and then we have a chain reaction where a teammate gets toxic and then other two teammates are getting into discussion and they get toxic too and all of them are new spark for toxicity in their next games. So now there is my question: Why not removing chat(tool of toxicity) if pings are enough or why not letting toxic players play with other toxic? Why do we have to force them to get a new account and being toxic again, but this time under different nick? Hope that small bit of text didn't scare you off ;)
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OQRkgaFY,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-06-26T21:44:05.183+0000) > > They don't ban for int and grief. This is confirmed, I'm not even talking about automatic system but a ticked sent to a Riot support. > See my conversation with the other lad. Guess all these results; https://www.google.com/search?q=banned+for+intentionally+feeding+site:boards.na.leagueoflegends.com&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi__bvyoYjjAhURvFkKHWVBCbwQrQIoBDAAegQIAxAL&biw=1278&bih=952 Don't exist. They just lead to blank pages.
And what is this proving then? https://duckduckgo.com/?q=lol+boards+banned+for+no+reason&atb=v154-1&ia=web That Riot bans people randomly from time to time for no reason? The argument with google search is idiotic as it doesn't prove anything. You can literally type in "I got banned ...." and in the dots field type any possible ever reason and it will always work. I can make up a boards topic and call it "I got kidnapped by UFO", what does it prove? Btw. how is your support ticket about me? Any news? bans maybe? Feel free to submit a new one again, we'll see how it goes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OQRkgaFY,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-06-26T21:51:32.874+0000) > > btw. the idea is ridiculous. You cannot be neutral in a game, that's not what the games were made up for. > The idea behind a game is to stimulate your adrenaline and emotions, you can't stay neutral in something that was designed to boost your emotions and create an engagement. > > Also the idea for banning immediately after things like "useless jg" is ridiculous, as people will just create a new account. I think that all of this is designed for that - to force people to get new accounts and make them buy exp boost and champion bundles for RP so they wont spent another decade collecting all champions. > > I can see the direction that all of this is taking and I don't like it. This is much worse treating of players than forcing them to buy lootboxes by EA. > I wont be playing league anymore. Alright, was just lettin ya know how they deal with chat. I dont really have an absolute opinion on it, I just know how it works. If you do decide to int and troll, you probably will get away with it for a long time, which is a flaw for sure (ok i guess thats an opinion lol). All i know, is how to avoid punishments for chat and what will get punished, from years of checkin these boards while im at work. I haveseen punishments for inting and trolling, but they are far and few between. Oh and i do have an opinion on free to play models and i think they suck. Just pay for a gameand unlock all content. The idea of paying to unlock content with real money, is a fuckin greedy ploy. I hate it, personally.
K, ty for normal answer. This is unusual here on boards. People here are Riot fanatics. They don't any logic and reasoning come through. If I would be banned for saying "I like cookies" they would probably say that I deserved it because it was a white supremacist, racial comment about LGBT feminist that likes eating cookies. Just check out the Cyberpunk drama rn. Madness. People here are probably counting on a Rioter seeing their comment defending Riot and giving them place in Riot games as an award for their good work xD but that's just my theory. Anyways as you said it's better to pay and have full content a f2p game will **always** try to force taking money from you. I used to play CS, LoL etc. but actually recently I went for games like Sekiro and other single player ones and I have to say.... I have never been so happy with the content I got. Now after the ban I made by mind. I quit on lol. If Riot treats me like a sheep I don't see a point why I would play the game anymore. There are plenty of other games that offer better content and their creators will make a batter use of my money.
Rioter Comments
: They only reverse bans placed in error. This ban was clearly not an error, as you did break the rules or the terms of use. You cannot harass and insult players. If someones words are offending you, you should stick with muting, or just telling them theyre wrong. Dont spam, dont insult, keep your chat neutral or positive and you will never be punished, unless you int or grief.
btw. the idea is ridiculous. You cannot be neutral in a game, that's not what the games were made up for. The idea behind a game is to stimulate your adrenaline and emotions, you can't stay neutral in something that was designed to boost your emotions and create an engagement. Also the idea for banning immediately after things like "useless jg" is ridiculous, as people will just create a new account. I think that all of this is designed for that - to force people to get new accounts and make them buy exp boost and champion bundles for RP so they wont spent another decade collecting all champions. I can see the direction that all of this is taking and I don't like it. This is much worse treating of players than forcing them to buy lootboxes by EA. I wont be playing league anymore.
: They only reverse bans placed in error. This ban was clearly not an error, as you did break the rules or the terms of use. You cannot harass and insult players. If someones words are offending you, you should stick with muting, or just telling them theyre wrong. Dont spam, dont insult, keep your chat neutral or positive and you will never be punished, unless you int or grief.
They don't ban for int and grief. This is confirmed, I'm not even talking about automatic system but a ticked sent to a Riot support. See my conversation with the other lad.
: > [{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OQRkgaFY,comment-id=00000000000000010001000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-23T22:42:56.045+0000) > > > I threw the 0/20 game because I felt bored and my team didn't want to surr and yes, I agree that I should be punished for doing that (I threw the game because I didn't want a punishment for going afk) because that was not right and it was unsportsmen behavior towards my teammates Cool, thanks for the admission. I'll send in a support ticket with the admission and Riot might get some human eyes on the game to see if the automatic system missed you. The same power you have with this other person.
I will text you again in a week and tell you how their system works. If I get a permaban that means that you were right and the system works just fine, but if I wont, well... that means that I was right all along and that Riot doesn't really care about trolling, meanwhile they are banning people for some stupid causes like saying "sell skin" on chat.... this is a pure joke. What's next? A permaban because I said "dye your hair to different colour" ?? Pure madness.
: This is some of the most incessantly toxic stuff I've seen in a very, very long time. A pro streamer would get a 14-day for this much toxicity, regardless of the situation they were in. If you think this kind of stuff is remotely in the same galaxy as acceptable behavior, you should re-read the chat logs. If, after re-reading them, you still think this kind of stuff is remotely int he same galaxy as acceptable behavior... heck I don't know what to say because I can't fathom thinking that.
You haven't seen much then. Fortunately my skin is not made out of paper(unlike yours) and if someone says things that I don't like or don't agree with, I'm not immediately after calling cops. Saying that someone is a noob and he should quit playing his champion is not a bad behavior, this is an opinion and I'm free to express it(or at least I thought). I don't care that you don't like it or do not agree with it, you should not have a right to punish me for that because that's something subjective. Note that I didn't use racial slurs or anything like that. If you say that I deserve ban for saying things like "sell skin" because you feel offended then I feel offended by you saying: > This is some of the most incessantly toxic stuff I've seen in a very, very long time. Have fun having a ban ;) You might say "but saying a word toxic is not toxic", well for me it is and you are toxic towards me by saying that - therefore you should be banned. That's your logic... this is subjective and you cannot punish people for saying such things. What if I'll tell someone that I don't like his hair? Will you say "This is some of the most incessantly toxic stuff I've seen in a very, very long time." What I'm experiencing here right now with Riot is some kind of a crowd madness, banning people because you don't like what they said has a special name - censorship. Obviously here we are avoiding few essential parts: - I had a trolling duo in a team with Yasuo 0/13 in 20 minutes. - He was racially offending me and calling me a rat, but obviously the chat logs wont allow me to show you that. - He was the one to start as he lost top and blamed me (the jungler) with his teammate. I was answering back. - I have never, ever got banned before. I have not even got a chat restrict. Giving me a ban for one situation is some kind of a madness. Everyone who plays LoL writes different things for time to time. If we will keep banning people for one accident, suddenly Riot will run out of players.... or.... I actually think I got it. Because I got banned for nothing I was searching for anyone in similar situation and what actually happened was that I've seen thousands of people being in almost same situation as I am right now. I was wondering what is the very reason for that, banning people for flame doesn't change anything because they will make a new account and continue to play the game, and then I got it - they start to banning people for nothing so they will be forced to make new accounts and because most of the people don't like to fuck with exp and getting champs one by one, they will have to pay with RP. Banning people for stuff like that has nothing to do with "decreasing toxicity". P.S. Streamers were saying much worse stuff and nothing was done, for example Yassuo. Your argument is invalid.
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Citizen Kayn

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