: sejuani 46% winrate and declining pick rate - can we revert?
: {{champion:238}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:84}} look at this poor champions riot please buff so they can have 85 prec winrate. they can't deal enough damage.
Remove {{champion:91}} from the list and we're ok.
: New {{champion:91}} is so much better than old talon. I don't know why people keep asking for old talon. His entire combo revolved around using a point and click teleport to target which had a 99% slow and amplified your damage by 15% -- absolutely no way is this ability healthy for the game at all.
I don't understand why are you judging the overall state of the champ when you don't even play him nor have played 1 game with him in Ranked this entire season.
Nahui (NA)
: Well they both failed at their jobs when they were reworked. LeBlanc became a kiting mage, not an assassin. Adding a fixed burst window goes against assassin design. At least Zed's fixed time does not require his actual presence to occur. LeBlanc had to be within casting range the entire time and that was problematic. Rengar became clunky, which is terrible on an assassin. They're meant to be fluid, quick champions and changing his Q to this awkward, half dash aoe cone just slowed him down immensely. It didn't fix the problem that the rework was meant to address which was him deleting champions instantly when fed because when reworked Rengar got fed, he'd still delete just in a clunkier manner as well as in an aoe so possibly deleting groups. Katarina's rework was a wild success, as much as I hate to say it. They made her extremely telegraphed but also extremely mobile and having lots of options in most situations. She's no longer an extremely feast or famine champ hard countered by CC. They just have to be sure her numbers are in order. Talon's W was slowed to give his targets a chance to breathe before they're killed. If you remember old Talon, could charge Q, E, and throw W and ult at the same time and the blades would essentially converge at the same time as your Q-empowered auto hit and the entire kit just came together in one, crazy burst. I'm all for assassins, but that's a bit silly. What Talon needs the most is for Riot to go in to -every- single bit of terrain Summoner's Rift has, by this I mean the walls, and fix any and all bugs that cause's Talon to jump in some stupid manner. I've died/failed to get a kill so many times because I E'd a wall and Talon decided to flip 3 yds to the right or something dumb like that. The W does feel clunky, so it would be nice if they could increase the speed that it comes back. Not necessarily projectile speed but the time it takes to start coming back, even by like .25 seconds. Overall, I think he just needs some animation smoothing and cast time changes, no real rework.
What killed the new Talon is his new passive, they put all the damage there and they ask you to stack it 3 times, get in range with the enemy and AA, why should an assassin do that to begin with? and to add more salt to the wound they made his [W] so narrow, slow, doesn't slow at first part not to mention he lost 15% damage amplifier on ALL of his damage "used to be passive in his old [E]".
Rioter Comments
: I hope Akali's W duration will be reduced in her next rework
I hope Akali's W duration will be ~~reduced~~ Reworked in her next rework.
Shaydrox (EUW)
: Talon is in a solid spot right now, and is currently getting a significant buff/bugfix on his Q on the PBE. Lux is getting worked on because she's a terrible champion and needs help somewhere. She also has issues with her E being very binary, so there are good arguments to give her some work. Wukong could use work (he's like Lux imo, too binary and iffy in most games) and Ryze is so problematic he needs work even though I agree it's unfair how much more effort he gets compared to some other old champions.
Solid spot? define his strengths and weaknesses then. Post the rework he received more weaknesses and bugs than he used to have, but after the [Q] bugfix, we'll see how viable his only gap-closer will be.
remakoro (EUNE)
: How about some item bans?
Already asked for it, but not many will give up {{item:3031}} {{item:3147}} {{item:3157}}.
Rioter Comments
Andevar (NA)
: Maybe not the worst late game Assassin, but Talon does fall off very hard. The only thing he really contributes late game is his wave clear, which is really good due to his mobility. But outside of that, his team fighting usually consists of suicide charging the ADC in the hopes that your full burst kills him. But then again, that's only if you failed to close the game out early.
He falls off very hard because he lost his [W] speed and damage, he lost his old [E] amplifier and old 100% [Q] crit. and because most of his damage is a stack-and-activate mechanic.
: Only one question. How does one jump while already jumping?
We give it a "Landing-strike" animation.
ZJD123 (NA)
: Easily the worst late game assassin. He has to 1. some how get to his target with a 400 range gap closer in the middle of a 5v5 deathball 2. hit the enemy ADC with 3 different spell hits 3. THEN land an auto attack on the ADC to actually proc the 3 stack into a bleed. 4. Wait 2 seconds for the bleed to do its damage 5. if he used his ult to either do 1. or do 2. then hes probably dead already at this point from ADC right clicks+ team finishing him off His best bet is hoping the teamfight takes place in a location where he can flank with his E and flip over really close to the back line. I also dont understand why they gutted his W so hard. Rake was never a toxic ability, infact it was one of the least toxic abilities when you talk about assassins. 260+1.2 ratio is not that much and it had to go out and then come back in with a 10 sec cooldown. Not sure how thats toxic to the point where they had to make it impossible to land. Look at jarvan he can just press Q and instantaneously deal that same exact damage on a 6 sec cooldown with 30% armor pen. AD jarvan is probably just a better talon.
What I dislike about the new Passive-R is that his [R] is mostly used to stack his _Wounds_ which ends up losing invisibility trying to activate the passive. The old Talon used his R mainly to clean the kill and escape at the same time, was more fun and better combo-landing wise.
: I don't play {{champion:91}} much, but QoL for under rated assassins is something I can get behind
He could become more than press [E] and wait to land to possibly kill someone. The execution of his combo could become more interesting by fixing and adding more to his [E]
  Rioter Comments
Viscâ (EUW)
: Talon Q Range Bug
maybe thats why it feels like it has a short range when on paper it looks decent. Maybe if they fixed Talon's [Q] and [E] bugs he'd be in a much better spot. and btw, this patch i've been getting lots of buggy [E] jumps, i'm not sure why. I've tested [Q] ranges yesterday, you know how a lot of Talon players complain about when trying to chase someone with ranged [Q] but it end up giving them the close-ranged crit so the enemy escapes? turns out that the short-ranged [Q] applies outside it's set range. go on training ground and test it yourself and check the ranges.
Feel Apathy (EUNE)
: It already had a 10 seconds CD for each brush, and its duration is reduced by about 20-33% whenever he leaves said brush. Not saying he's not OP or anything related, but that's the wrong way to nerf him.
You have the right to say he's OP. he's the top jungler on op.gg http://eune.op.gg/champion/statistics
VanaQuish (EUNE)
: I would advice you to refrain from complaining about his e reset. It's what enables him to function as an assassin. Assassins need a way to get in and go out (usually if they get a kill)
and stealth 3-4 times, or kill 3 at least?
Rioter Comments
: Bring back Cutthroat.
No chance of getting that back at all. I'd rather have the old Rake [W] back if you ask me, would make Talon much more easier to play, and more satisfying.
Shiznyte (NA)
: because the mechanic is busted on WW and it would probs be just as busted if not more on Talon. WW's Q hold out playing Flash probs shouldn't be in the game... considering how often WW players do it on accident because the kit is super strong and super easy to play. he pretty much has 2 damage skills until level 6 (the other one is a nice passive and move speed and attack speed at low hp but no real damage) and he can out damage a shit load of people early. something seems fishy about that too! Maybe avoid making comparisons to make them similar to known busted champions. WW has be receiving a lot of negative attention for his high win rate and overall extremely easy play style compare to how rewarding it is playing so safe.
I was referring to how Warwick's [Q] is coded, I wasn't talking about what advantages it offers. I want Talon to have the same kind of mechanic and to be able to use the jump in a more dimensional way, rather than to having it be fixed from point A--->B
Rioter Comments
: project talon, shen and akali has been confrimed. project hero!
Rioter Comments
: Those two things are entirely disconnected.
I figured you'd be an ADC main, but oh sure both things aren't in the champion's kit design department, silly me.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: @RiotRepertoir Whats the thinking behind over buffing/compensating zed but nerfing talon ?
I've said it before and I'll say it again , talon does not need damage buffs, he needs the rengar and lb treatment, he needs partial revert to his kit, his W needs to be reverted Because it's so fkin easy to dodge and slow. And if they would allow him to cast abilities mid-air jump that would make him more smooth to play (he can only cast R and it would put him back in his place in the middle of wall so he loses dash space).
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 30
@Meddler, happy holidays for you and the rest of hardworking Rioters. I want to know your opinion on Talon's current state. and why not give him Rengar and Leblanc's treatment? The damage is there, but it's not much satisfying playing with him, specially with the -15 Movement speed nerfs, his low range [Q] and narrow + easily dodge-able [W]. The compensation buffs were good, and kept him in the same spot, but he still deserves a little bit of love as in QoL changes.
: What should his passive be? Most of the ideas I've heard in the past (internally and/or externally) usually have some significant downside to it, whether that be: * Expensive to develop * Overly complex and/or significantly altering his playstyle (which his current players likely enjoy) * Needing to sap power out of the current most powerful parts of his kit
Hey RiotRepertoir, thank you for listening to us. Tbh I'm not entirely sure what does (expensive) to develop mean. I've always thought a champion is developed based on what would fix his kit and nothing else is put into consideration. Wukong's passive is his biggest issue, it reflects how the old (fighters) used to work, to get some resistances to survive a fight. But with lethality rework, more numbers were added, and with % armor shred buffs it even made it worse. I believe if Wukong's passive is going to change, another spell (most likely Q) need to change with it. I have couple of suggestions, I'm not sure how expensive they would be but I'm trying to bring the champ closer to his original theme. 1) wukong uses his nimbus to cloud walk, more mobility, nimbuses appear all around the map so one should carefully play around them. With the previous change, riding one nimbus for example would give him MS steroid, increased [E] range and even more range on his reworked [Q]. - his Q should be reworked into a skill shot with an actual range threat to give him more depth into his gameplay. Increase the range to 450-600, and give it CC based on the enemies location (if the head of staff lands on enemy it knocks him up or stuns him, and enemies on the sides of staff are slightly knocked back), [more range to be gained through using nimbus]. 2) give wukong 2 stances to switch between , offensive and defensive, In each stance you gain permanent offenses/critical strike Defensive/HP/resistances/damage reduction/stone-shield based on the fights you've fought/won Remember Radiant Wukong's quote {if you don't fight, you won't make friends}, implies one should always seek improvement, and the latter suggestion fits the quote. I can post many other suggestions but they'd be too complicated to be accepted like giving wukong the ability to stack his clones [W] just likes velkoz's [W] work, and add more playstyle to it, but I think this is enough for now.
: @RiotRepertoir Any plans for Wukong?
  Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 23
Hey Meddler. When will {{champion:62}} be seriously addressed and get his kit reworks? Why was he a prime candidate in the Diver's rework then canceled then was never prioritized? Are you waiting for Wukong to reach a certain point in order to give him a gameplay update?
: Not a bad idea, I'd also really like to see his ulti tickrate to be lowered to .5 sec
Actually, if you test him on the training ground, you'd see that his tickrate of the ultimate is 0.5 , you can hear the ultimate ticking 8 times.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 21
@Meddler, when can we expect a serious {{champion:62}} discussion? No matter how good you are with the champion, his binary kit doesn't allow you to be as competitive and climb compared to playing other champions. most champs he used to counter got changed / buffed in a way or another, he does not fall in any class, you build him Assassin just to raise your chances of killing priority targets to win the game, he has an assassin's kit but a teamfight ultimate which can be easily denied and outdamaged/lifestealed/shielded. He's been out of meta for too long, and he needs some love. Can we at least begin with the passive?
: Lancer Stratus Wukong Splash Art
one ugly skin, doesn't make sense on a monkey champ, splash art is confusing, like , what is he even doing? giant robotic ape standing showing us his side and people pointing out towards him, and for the ingame visuals? not worth it just my opinion
: looks fine to me only complaints I see in the comment sections are that it "doesn't fit him"
> [{quoted}](name=BlueVestGuy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4xOZE2JI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-21T02:40:07.807+0000) > > looks fine to me > only complaints I see in the comment sections are that it "doesn't fit him" A lot of people are calling it (ugly), and if a lot of humans share the same thought of something, means there's definitely something wrong about it. And are you actually telling me you'd put money on the table for this ?
Rioter Comments
: They could have also given him an Arcade skin. He honestly fits really well with that skin line seeing as there is a Wukong in so many games (or hell, even an ape of some kind in general) and it wouldn't be too hard to make his staff look like a pair of knock off Wii controllers attached to a stick.
> [{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9PR5rvw9,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-20T18:45:44.061+0000) > > They could have also given him an Arcade skin. He honestly fits really well with that skin line seeing as there is a Wukong in so many games (or hell, even an ape of some kind in general) and it wouldn't be too hard to make his staff look like a pair of knock off Wii controllers attached to a stick. I would've even settled for a humorous skin "April's fool skins line", he needs something that is not serious you know? But if it was to me? I'd give him a "wanderer/Hermit" type of skin, you know, the older type of wukong who is wise and such, OR maybe Pre-monkey transformation/Human-kong type of skin. There are lots of potential for the champ, but giving him this with a bad recall tells much about what to expect for Wukong in this year.
: See, I could get behind the "knight" thing, but even then it doesn't excuse a 3rd 1350 RP skin (which is what it is VERY likely to be) that won't likely have any new VO or animations. Why in gods name would they give a champ 3 1350 RP skins? It would have been better for them to just wait for a chance to make a 1820 RP skin and give this skin to someone else who needs it. Hell, if they weren't going to do that, then even him being another voted skin like what Illoai got would have been nice. This has been far from what any Wukong fan has been asking for.
> [{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9PR5rvw9,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-20T16:10:10.370+0000) > > See, I could get behind the "knight" thing, but even then it doesn't excuse a 3rd 1350 RP skin (which is what it is VERY likely to be) that won't likely have any new VO or animations. Why in gods name would they give a champ 3 1350 RP skins? It would have been better for them to just wait for a chance to make a 1820 RP skin and give this skin to someone else who needs it. Hell, if they weren't going to do that, then even him being another voted skin like what Illoai got would have been nice. > > This has been far from what any Wukong fan has been asking for. Tbh, the last couple of years has been mostly about 1350 RP skins, I don't think it will be fair if Wukong for example got a 950 skin which no champ has been getting lately, but I was expecting him to be a primary candidate for the Ultimate skin which was given to another ADC. All they need to do now is just cancel the skin like they did with the "sewn Amumu and Blitz".
Audhulma (NA)
: Cry more? At least you got something relatively decent for your champion, there are lots of other champions who still need skins and aren't getting a thing, or get those shitty worlds skins.
> [{quoted}](name=Audhulma,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9PR5rvw9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-20T15:31:19.518+0000) > > Cry more? At least you got something relatively decent for your champion, there are lots of other champions who still need skins and aren't getting a thing, or get those shitty worlds skins. I'm gonna keep posting about Wukong's current state and his need for a rework every week my friend, doesn't matter if you or others see it as "crying". and tell me, what's so special about the "lancers" skinline? I'm not a fan of "knights" to begin with, let alone the skin does not even fit the monkey king's theme, but yea lets throw a skin just because we dont feel like being creative for an unpopular champion then call it an "effort"
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 16
Hey Meddler. When will you at least talk about {{champion:62}} future plans? or at least, rework his passive? a Passive tells much about a Champion, it gives the champion an identity. {{champion:157}} for example, wouldn't be Yasuo if his passive wasn't the way it is. So yes. Wukong's passive needs to be addressed immediately and be granted a reworked no matter how much you try to compensate for the {{item:3147}} nerfs.
Kivolan (NA)
: At This Point, Only 20 Champions Have No Mobility.
So {{champion:62}} is "mobile" just because he has an enemy reliant point click dash that can't be used in any other way or freely to escape. yeah, you're right, Wukong is a mobile champion.
: excuse me? wukong maxes Q second http://euw.op.gg/champion/monkeyking/statistics/jungle
: Taric needs a Topaz/Guardian of the Sands skin
{{champion:91}} needs a sandstorm skin, you know, Assassin's creed theme
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Vaermina,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2KYTQ3d6,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-07T01:47:40.712+0000) > > There's still 2 weeks to add to the pbe cycle, chill ITS ONLY THE PRESEASON. WHY ARE U COMPLAINING, ITS JUST THE PRESEASON DUDE CHILL. ITS JUST THE PRESEASON. ITS JUST THE PRESEASON. ITS JUST THE PRESEASON. DONT GIVE ANY FEEDBACK ITS JUST THE PRESEASON.
GIVE IT SOME TIME THEY'LL FIX IT, THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING STOP RUSHING THINGS
: Just give up dude .. it's obvious Riot hates certain champions. I still wish Trundle could have some buffs after 9-10 (I lost count) patches with an average of 47% winrate, but I'll be surprised if they even talk about him in the future. I don't know if they know he exists tbh
Like I said in previous posts, I'm not gonna stop making threads until they do some serious work on Talon on Wukong. In that case, why don't you start suggesting how he should be buffed? I'm sure a lot of others will help you with your suggestion and even post their own ideas.
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