iTaLenTZ (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Coronet,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=VA1W87yI,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-05-23T16:03:44.831+0000) > > You talked about possible changes to Malz {{champion:90}} a while back in reaction to the changes to early mana items. > > Anything new on that front? > > He's been mostly used as an ult bot for several patches now (see recent MSI, building Shurelya's, etc.), instead of being AP carry, and his early game is even weaker now. Feels bad watching you still trying to communicate while being ignored for 2 months. The only fix for Malz is a complete revert to his Original state. Everyone knows this for ages but Riot is still in denial. Would also be the only thing that would make me reinstall this game. Just wait for a +5 Base Mana and + 3 AP on his Q meme.
Yeah, he is in a really wierd state, where he is bad mechanically and gameplay wise, serving just as an Ult bot, with all his power budget in his W, while still doing reasonably win-rate wise. Champion like this I guess will never get attention here, because even if it sucks to play him, he still relatively works (even tho I hate the playstyle). Also, it seems you can never have enough posts about jungle or AD items...
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 23
You talked about possible changes to Malz {{champion:90}} a while back in reaction to the changes to early mana items. Anything new on that front? He's been mostly used as an ult bot for several patches now (see recent MSI, building Shurelya's, etc.), instead of being AP carry, and his early game is even weaker now.
ƒrostγ (EUNE)
: IS there anything new you can say about {{champion:127}} ?
Jesus, stop with these already. He talked about her like twenty times over the past two months. Give others a chance for once.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 16
Hello, any changes planned for {{champion:90}} Malzahar, you mentioned in one of your previous posts? Also there have been several threads lately about Malz gameplay being dulled down to simply being an ult bot (and recent MSI play, where players rushed Shurelyas {{item:2065}} just to be able to catch up to people, supports this), and having the majority of his power budget within his W, leading to uninteresting gameplay. Thanks
: I hate the report button so fucking much.
There is nothing you can do about it. The system bans people for _talking_ toxic, but allows _playing_ toxic. You can pick Yi top, feed the top laner, die 11 times, tell everyone they are kids and it's fine. Tell the Yi he is an idiot and you are the one getting punished. I don't understand this logic. We can't flame others because it creates negative playing experience. But i guess people locking up stupid shit, feeding their ass off and making others waste 20 minutes of their life is positive playing experience. Essentially the system promotes trolling, because you can never get punished for picking stupid picks and feeding, but others can get punished for criticizing you.
Willioss (EUW)
: Let's talk about Pyke ultimate
Let's not. You never played him. Nobody has any clue how strong or weak he is.
: > [{quoted}](name=Coronet,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fZBU2F8i,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-14T15:58:35.322+0000) > > No, he needs the passive to function, it's one of the things that actually makes him viable. > > Stop asking for removing the one thing good about the champion in favour of off-meta, niche and half-troll AD Malz builds... Let's be honest the actual passive it's one of the thing why malzhar it's weak right now. Another reason is his ult. For balancing this they need to gut other part of his kit (waweclear) because his passive garanted too much safe plays and his ult give a 100% kill chance on a not Qss champ. Old malzhar kit wasn't that strong but at least his damage is more into a true combo instead of one skill. Old malzhar void could scale with Ap other than Ad and this will make him good as ap too (like kennen do) while he has a good font of damage. Ps I don't like Ad malzhar playstyle but his old W+Passive was better balanced thab the actual one.
Alright, consider this - Every solid mid laner in this game has some kind of defensive ability. For Syndra its her knockback, Lux and Orianna have shields, Ryze has a shields and MS boost, Viktor has a shield and MS boost, Cassio has MS boost and Miasma, Azir has shield and shuffle, Taliyah has knockback and AoE slow, Vlad has pool, Zoe has sleep and mobility and to some extent ult, Swain has root and ult, Karma has shield, root and slow on her Q and the list goes on. You can't have a champion that has just damage or you end up with champion like Brand. He does shit load of damage, but you never see him in mid, because once you get on him, he is dead. We can't sit here and just think about how cool it was to 100-0 somebody. We need to think how to make the champion good, healthy and viable in all tiers so that everyone would play him. You don't want to design a champion for gold and below only.
: > [{quoted}](name=Coronet,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fZBU2F8i,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-14T15:47:29.807+0000) > > Suggestions: > > W removed, replaced with > > **Null Zone** > > Radius XY, deals x% maximum HP to each champion each second they are in the Zone and slows them by 30%. > > Q buffed, to accomodate for the loss of damage from W. > > R deals XY damage over time and slows the target by 50%. If the target is afflicted by his E or stands in his W, the R instead surpresses the target like it does now. > > Boom, Malzahar solved. I think he need a new passive like every 4 spell he would spawn a void that will grow up dealing more damage and having more hp also it scale 100% bonus Ad. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
No, he needs the passive to function, it's one of the things that actually makes him viable. Stop asking for removing the one thing good about the champion in favour of off-meta, niche and half-troll AD Malz builds...
: Revert malzahar from 7.11
Suggestions: W removed, replaced with **Null Zone** Radius XY, deals x% maximum HP to each champion each second they are in the Zone and slows them by 30%. Q buffed, to accomodate for the loss of damage from W. R deals XY damage over time and slows the target by 50%. If the target is afflicted by his E or stands in his W, the R instead surpresses the target like it does now. Boom, Malzahar solved.
Rioter Comments
: Zed has a ton of direct counters. {{champion:1}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:84}} The thing about Zed is that when he ults you, he gives you a .75 second warning that he is going to appear at an exact spot. Any champ that can just drop CC or disappear at that moment negates his kit. Second, you can just build {{item:3157}} or take {{summoner:3}}
Zed has 52% win rate against Malzahar. Zed counters Malzahar. Maybe just for once, you could get a fresh info instead of repeating old disproven "truths". Anivia and Vlad is also Zed favouring matchup. The thing about assasins is the game just becomes, at least for the mid laner, all about them. Did I match his roams and kept him from getting fed? If yes well, I did a good job. Did I not die in lane, avoided his harras and farmed safely? If yes, I did my job. Did I itemize optimally against him? If yes, I did a good job. Did my team respected his roams, listened to my pings? If yes, we did a good job. Did my jungler help me and try to make him as irrelevant as possible? If yes, he did a good job. Do you see the pattern here? Once an assasin like Zed is this strong, the whole game is warped around him. And now, since mages early are weaker than ever, it's actually so hard to do this. All it takes is just one mistake from you or your bot lane and he is off and running and you are now playing scared about where he is going to pop up and if you are going to stop him. You never hear this about mages, do you. Wow, we have to play scared about the Orianna, she has 4 kills. Wow, the Malzahar is strong, I hope he doesn't target me. Oh no, the Lux got tripple kill, game over. No, never. That's why I hate playing against assasins, because suddenly, you are there not to carry, but to prevent them from carrying. If this was LCK, I'd say.. ok, no problem, Gorrila here will just stun his ass, gives the team shields or whatever. This doesn't apply in solo Q. People don't pay attention. People don't respect pings. People always chase for that "one auto" to secure kills. And this is the environment all assasins thrive in. Talking about Malz specifically, his early game damage is just not enough anymore to punish the Zed. All he has to do is go Bone Plating and Chrysalis, buy three pots and he just sustains through your damage, he one shots your voidlings with one Q and often just flat out outpushes you and is free to do whatever he wants.
: > [{quoted}](name=Coronet,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I8AvEvOJ,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-12T21:57:23.273+0000) > > The shield drops of after exactly one autoattack. > > Stop selling it as if it made him invicible. Are you claiming that he would have been used whether ot not he had a shield... or not? > [{quoted}](name=Coronet,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I8AvEvOJ,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-12T21:57:23.273+0000) > > He needed shield if he was to function as a champion. Before, it was a niche pick for us couple of mains, but overall just a pretty bad champion. 52-53% winrate on average = unfuctional/pretty bad champion... Did not receive a single nerf over a 5-6 year period = unfuctional/pretty bad champion... Received only QoL buffs over a 5-6 year period = unfuctional/pretty bad champion... Okay. > [{quoted}](name=Coronet,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I8AvEvOJ,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-12T21:57:23.273+0000) > > He's better now, but has issues. Has issues lol... Comparing the amount of bitching on the forums/boards have done against new Malz vs the old Malz. But... "He's better now"
Forum bitching means nothing. If this game was desiged by what the forums want it wouldn't last a week.
: There is something that changed about Malzahar that made him safe enough to play in pro play... What was it... Something he didn't have pre-rework... I can't put my finger on it... Oh wait. #It was his shield --- The shield forgave positioning mistakes and opened up Malzahar to a slew of players who required a seat belt to play an immobile mage. And if something helps the average player out, it'll be hell of a lot more abuse-able in pro play, which is exactly what they did. --- Can you even claim that he would have still been used if he didn't have a shield? Nostalgia clouding my ass This is logic. He had Voidlings pre-rework. He had Nether Grasp pre-rework. He did not have safety. He was then picked after he had safety with the other two still there in different forms. Do the math.
The shield drops of after exactly one autoattack. Stop selling it as if it made him invicible. He needed shield if he was to function as a champion. Before, it was a niche pick for us couple of mains, but overall just a pretty bad champion. He's better now, but has issues.
: Are you fucking... Its like you didn't even know what old Malzahar was! **He was a counter for assassins for** #SIX YEARS UNTIL PATCH 6.9 WHEN HE WENT FROM ANTI-ASSASSIN TO DIVE-PROOF > [{quoted}](name=Coronet,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I8AvEvOJ,comment-id=002400000000,timestamp=2018-05-12T20:55:29.795+0000) > > Before you go "bucko" on somebody, maybe you should do some research first, before repeating old cliches...
Yes, this is precisely what I said. He used to counter assasins, but past his recent nerfs, he doesn't. Do you have trouble comprehending writter word? I've mained the champion since season 2. You are overselling how much big of a problem is Passive is. It's not a problem. Not even remotely.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mordepool,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I8AvEvOJ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-12T00:51:47.938+0000) > > At least Malzahar sees play Malzahar belonged to his mains alone and we were happy with that because every champion that gets picked in competitive play gets messed around with over and over again. Not being in pro play is one of the reasons why old Malzahar only received QoL buffs and 0 nerfs during a 5-6 year period.
> [{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I8AvEvOJ,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-05-12T02:10:59.701+0000) > > Malzahar belonged to his mains alone and we were happy with that because every champion that gets picked in competitive play gets messed around with over and over again. > > Not being in pro play is one of the reasons why old Malzahar only received QoL buffs and 0 nerfs during a 5-6 year period. I strongly disagree with this sentiment. When a champion is picked in pro play, it means he is either broken or is simply a good champion. Malzahar is now a good champion, plagued with two main problems - R reliability and W power budget. Old Malz maybe had assasiantion potential, but was completely unviable against people with brain. Don't want those times to happen. Your nostalgia clouds your judgement.
: c..countered by assassins? You have it wrong there bucko.
Before you turn to invectives, get your fact straight, cowboy: http://champion.gg/champion/Malzahar/Middle?league= Malzahar has 48% or lower win rate against (amongts others) Talon, Zed and Ahri and below 50% win rate against Ekko and Katarina. The common knowledge that Malz counters Assasins might have been true four months ago, but not anymore. Before you go "bucko" on somebody, maybe you should do some research first, before repeating old cliches...
iTaLenTZ (EUW)
: Rant: Malzahar is the poster child of failed reworks
I actually think his passive necessary for his mid-range battle mage playstyle. Notice all battle mages have some kind of build in defense (Viktor, Ryze, Swain). I strongly disagree it "removed the counterplay". That's not true at all. If it was, Malz wouldn't be countered by nearly all of the assasins, Swain, and so on. This nostalgia that "before rework, he was better" is entirely misguided. Before rework, he was a binary champion that was all but non-viable in high elo, his playbase was minor at best and he was completely unviable in pro play. With the rework, he actually became a champion with some depth and gradually found his way into both pro-play and high elos. What makes him problematic, and it's what I've been bringing up couple of months and even tweeted at Meddler and Repertoir is, how significant of an ability is W Void Swarm is. After his last wave of nerfs, it is practially the main source of both waveclear and combat power and I absolutely agree with you that has to change. His W was the source of those Support Malz shanenigans and it's overall a very dull and completely uninteresting ability. In my opinion it would be best for the champion if his W got removed, replaced with his old W Null Zone, the damage from the voidlings would be spread into the rest of his kit and his R would surpress only if the enemy champion was affected by E or standing in W, otherwise it would slow. This would allow the champion to gain combat power in exchange for reliability, which I think is (after reading this thread) what we would all like. We don't like being Ult Bots for our junglers and ADCs. We like to carry.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 11
Any preliminary direction of the Malzahar {{champion:90}} changes you talked about Wednesday? Could you also look into his W while you are at it? He's currently too dependent on it for both waveclear and champ damage. Thanks!
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
Talking about Malz {{champion:90}}, any chance to make him less reliant on his W and put more power to the rest of the kit? He is entirely dependent on his voidlings for farming and fighting, but has little agency over them, except when to release them. Thanks.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 4
I'm done asking about Malzahar. Go and answer questions about Duskblade or ADCs for the thousandth time.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 2
Hello, I've been bringing this topic up for several weeks now, so here it goes. I want to talk about {{champion:90}} Malzahar. After his most recent nerfs, his W has become much more important part of his kit (as other parts of his kit get weaker, the other ones become relatively stronger), to the point that he is entirely reliant on this ability. He can't waveclear without it, he cannot do damage to people without it. Could we perhaps hear some thoughts about whether this situation is alright for you at the moment? Me and virtually any Malz mains from Malz subreddit agree that W is his least reliable, interesting, fun and skillful ability, while being also his most important. We don't play him for his voidlings, we play him for his sustain damage, CC and AoE ability and most importantly for his dark mage thematic. It feels really bad using his R, E and Q and doing subpar damage, because you don't have voidlings out. Could we redistribute the damage from his W into the rest of his kit so the champ himself has more punch and feels better to play, instead of being a CC bot for his own voidlings? Thanks!
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 27
Hello, I've been bringing this topic up for several weeks now, so here it goes. I want to talk about {{champion:90}} Malzahar. After his most recent nerfs, his W has become much more important part of his kit (as other parts of his kit get weaker, the other ones become relatively stronger), to the point that he is entirely reliant on this ability. He can't waveclear without it, he cannot do damage to people without it. Could we perhaps hear some thoughts about whether this situation is alright for you at the moment? Me and virtually any Malz mains from Malz subreddit agree that W is his least reliable, interesting, fun and skillful ability, while being also his most important. We don't play him for his voidlings, we play him for his sustain damage, CC and AoE ability and most importantly for his dark mage thematic. It feels really bad using his R, E and Q and doing subpar damage, because you don't have voidlings out. Could we redistribute the damage from his W into the rest of his kit so the champ himself has more punch and feels better to play, instead of being a CC bot for his own voidlings? Thanks!
DW Diana (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Coronet,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=AAQmzoJh,comment-id=0054,timestamp=2018-04-25T16:51:56.079+0000) > > Hello, I've been bringing this topic up for several weeks no, so here it goes. > > I want to talk about {{champion:90}} Malzahar. > > After his most recent nerfs, his W has become much more important part of his kit (as other parts of his kit get weaker, the other ones become relatively stronger), to the point that he is entirely reliant on this ability. > > He can't waveclear without it, he cannot do damage to people without it. > > Could we perhaps hear some thoughts about whether this situation is alright for you at the moment? > > Me and virtually any Malz mains from Malz subreddit agree that W is his least reliable, interesting, fun and skillful ability, while being also his most important. We don't play him for his voidlings, we play him for his sustain damage, CC and AoE ability and most importantly for his dark mage thematic. > > It feels really bad using his R, E and Q and doing subpar damage, because you don't have voidlings out. > > Could we redistribute the damage from his W into the rest of his kit so the champ himself has more punch and feels better to play, instead of being a CC bot for his own voidlings? > > Thanks! You asked a similar question last week too, sad to see still no response. As Meddler seems to post this weekly at about the same time I'm going to write up one to post when he first opens the thread and hopefully will get a response. Personally I think they need to work on BUFFING his w to make it an interesting and useful part of his kit, rather than just giving up on it entirely. Give them more hp, range or speed, and damage so you can do damage without ult would work well. I've been relying on electrocute for kill pressure the last week, and that was WITH my e w r combo and them at half hp :S
There was a guy asking for Lissandra eight weeks straight and he got his answer every time. I don't really want them to go deep on that too... If they think Malz is fine, I'd be dissapointed, sure, but at least we have some clarification.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 25
Hello, I've been bringing this topic up for several weeks no, so here it goes. I want to talk about {{champion:90}} Malzahar. After his most recent nerfs, his W has become much more important part of his kit (as other parts of his kit get weaker, the other ones become relatively stronger), to the point that he is entirely reliant on this ability. He can't waveclear without it, he cannot do damage to people without it. Could we perhaps hear some thoughts about whether this situation is alright for you at the moment? Me and virtually any Malz mains from Malz subreddit agree that W is his least reliable, interesting, fun and skillful ability, while being also his most important. We don't play him for his voidlings, we play him for his sustain damage, CC and AoE ability and most importantly for his dark mage thematic. It feels really bad using his R, E and Q and doing subpar damage, because you don't have voidlings out. Could we redistribute the damage from his W into the rest of his kit so the champ himself has more punch and feels better to play, instead of being a CC bot for his own voidlings? Thanks!
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 20
I'd like to ask about {{champion:90}} Malzahar. Since his domination in early patches of the season (8.2) he was nerfed heavily, which essentially took him out of competitive, while the other champions out of the holy trinity weren't hit nearly as hard (Ryze, Azir) and continued to dominate. Later, Taliyah returned as the queen of midlane, with her annoying spam-q style and roaming. These champions were never hit as hard as Malzahar, but I digress. After the nerfs to his ult and his Q, his W emerged as a much more important component of his entire power budget (since the power of Q and R went down, W naturally increased in power relative to other skills). The problem is that his W is now so strong, the champion can't function without it. Malzahar is neither able to farm, nor to kill his opponents without it. All that while Malzahar has practically no agency over the voidlings. They die instantly in late game team fights, they are cleared easily by all meta mid lane champions, they are quite unreliable (squsihy, slow, don't follow into brushes unless warded) and most of all, they are the single least interesting and interactive spell in Malzahars kit. While his win rate remained around 50% after the nerfs, I maintain it is solely due to his binary Flash+R playstyle, which is encouraged by Spellbook and other spells that reduce Flash cooldowns. A playstyle that feels really bad to execute. Basically you are not there to carry, you are there to flash ult the ADC, and often die for it. Could we please have the power of his W redistributed over the rest of his kit, so he isn't entirely dependant on his least interesting and fun spell? Side note: From the discussion I've had with many of other Malz mains, it became clear removing his W completely in favour of some another, more interesting spell is desired. Malzahar simply doesn't fulfill his fantasy as a minionmancer and frankly, Malz mains do not play him for that. We play him for his dot playstyle, his CC, AoE damage and his shadow mage fantasy. Thanks for your time.
Novalas (NA)
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.9
I'd like to ask about {{champion:90}} Malzahar. Since his domination in early patches of the season (8.2) he was nerfed heavily, which essentially took him out of competitive, while the other champions out of the holy trinity weren't hit nearly as hard (Ryze, Azir) and continued to dominate. Later, Taliyah returned as the queen of midlane, with her annoying spam-q style and roaming. These champions were never hit as hard as Malzahar, but I digress. After the nerfs to his ult and his Q, his W emerged as a much more important component of his entire power budget (since the power of Q and R went down, W naturally increased in power relative to other skills). The problem is that his W is now so strong, the champion can't function without it. Malzahar is neither able to farm, nor to kill his opponents without it. All that while Malzahar has practically no agency over the voidlings. They die instantly in late game team fights, they are cleared easily by all meta mid lane champions, they are quite unreliable (squsihy, slow, don't follow into brushes unless warded) and most of all, they are the single least interesting and interactive spell in Malzahars kit. While his win rate remained around 50% after the nerfs, I maintain it is solely due to his binary Flash+R playstyle, which is encouraged by Spellbook and other spells that reduce {{summoner:4}} Flash cooldowns. A playstyle that feels really bad to execute. Basically you are not there to carry, you are there to flash ult the ADC, and often die for it. Could we please have the power of his W redistributed over the rest of his kit, so he isn't entirely dependant on his least interesting and fun spell? Side note: From the discussion I've had with many of other Malz mains, it became clear removing his W completely in favour of some another, more interesting spell is desired. Malzahar simply doesn't fulfill his fantasy as a minionmancer and frankly, Malz mains do not play him for that. We play him for his dot playstyle, his CC, AoE damage and his shadow mage fantasy. Thanks for your time.

Coronet

Level 46 (EUNE)
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