Sukishoo (NA)
: Enchanters are generally squishy so health helps them just like anyone else. It wasn't changed for them specifically though, it was shifted to be more of a support item (supports include enchanters, vanguards, mages, ect) as it was too similar to Righteous Glory which was a Toplane item.
There are a lot of stats that help, but help doesn't mean they need it. That's why it's a mistake to fully upgrade{{item:3098}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 25
Apparently {{item:2065}} is being made more for enchanters, but if it's for enchanters why give it health and health regen, enchanters don't need those stats(redemption has the same issue too). Live version is a much more preferable version.
Minarde (NA)
: You make a fair point. However, in the context of my remarks, "being able to show off multiple ranks" implies that someone is comparably proficient at more than one position (unless they're going for a weird "I'm Plat Mid, but Iron everything else" thing). Having only one rank thus means that they don't have to grind through the same division/tier multiple times and thus avoid "wasting" LP. The current LP splashing sorta mitigates this waste, but not nearly enough to offset the increased grind. For instance, at least based on my personal numbers, ranking two positions roughly doubles the total LP required, but splashing only increases total LP gain by about 16% (+24/win, +4 from splash). Essentially, you're correct for players whose rank already matches their skill. My argument was that positional ranks vastly increase the time it takes to get to that point.
That just means it takes a bit longer to get to your actual rank, but i don't think in the long run it really matters unless you play a very small amount of ranked games, like some tend to play 10 games just to have a rank.
: Ranked 2019 — /dev Update #3
Sorry for being late, just wanted to say that i'm patiently waiting for this system to come to our server and being able to play other roles than my main. Keep the good work.
Minarde (NA)
: Yeah, being able to show off ranks in everything was the only positive I could come up with, but that's balanced out by the fact that you'd probably be higher ranked if everything went towards one single rank. I mean, I'm a generalist player too, and the separate ranks feel constraining to me. I used to be able to swap positions based on mood/meta/whatever, but I can't do that anymore. Well, I can, but at the cost of several times the grind.
Sorry for being late, i noticed this whole thread pretty late, but i really wanted to talk about this: > Yeah, being able to show off ranks in everything was the only positive I could come up with, but that's balanced out by the fact that **you'd probably be higher ranked if everything went towards one single rank. ** That's not true if you look at Reddit or here in boards a common suggestion to climb faster is to have as small champion pool as possible, like 1 champion for each role and at least 2 in your main(or straight up one-trick), as well as getting a main role. The reason this is suggested is that you learn and improve at the game the fastest. The more roles/champions you play the more games you will need to climb and improve. You won't climb faster just because only 1 rank is visible. Of course to be fair, for smurfs it is true, for them it's faster to climb with one rank only.
: Enchanters deal damage too you know lol. Shield bomb fits into both identities equally, it's a hybrid ability for a hybrid champion.
Just because enchanters deal damage, it doesn't make shield bomb an enchanter ability.
: It's both an Enchanter AND Battlemage ability, definitely a support AND mage ability. I'm sure you can imagine how it might feel to have something important removed from your favourite champ. If you can't, good for you and I hope you never have to.
Shield part of it is what makes it enchanter and support ability, but not the bomb of it. That's a damage ability, suited for someone who goes deep in(her battlemage part).
: Hey Meddler, I was wondering if you're at all concerned with the devisive nature of the upcoming Karma rework? Many of us feel that the direction taken with her is the total opposite of what we wanted for several reasons: 1. It favours a burst playstyle. The most of us view Karma as a Battlemage/Enchanter, always has been. We were mad whenever changes occurred which pushed her away from that and now this rework kills her Battlemage identity for good. 2. The rework picked a side. This rework was opportunity to unify her divided playerbase, but instead dividing it more. There's zero attempt at a compromise and all that says to us is that we're not valued. 3. It addresses almost none of her issues. The only problem this rework solves is giving her something that isn't currently in the game, which happens to be discarded mechanics from {{champion:26}} {{champion:16}}. It attempts to solve RE's issues by discouraging its use on a full team, instead of bringing back shield bomb in some form - like I'm sure you know most of us wanted.
Why shield bomb? it's not an enchanter ability, not a support ability or even a mage ability(i guess it could be classified as battlemage ability). I just don't understand the obsession with this ability.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 25
Could you consider releasing positional ranked to other servers earlier? I was quite excited about it and it was quite disappointing to find out that i'm gonna have to wait 3 more months for it
: Karma Gameplay Change Preview
I'm not an old Karma player, don't know what she was like and don't care. I am quite excited about these chagnes, look pretty fun.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 3
Nami nerf looks pointless, she's not a healer, at least not in lane. I don't see this nerf changing anything.
: I just want to say that Nami's W the most mana-expensive (non-ult) ability in the game, its heal part also scales very poorly, with a measly 35% ap ratio, I mean she already struggles pretty hard early game with mana management and how high of a cooldown W has before cdr. Also, it's not one of those spells that you can spam in lane, it has a really high, static cooldown compared to every other poke ability (Lux's E, Brand's W, Sona's Q, Soraka's Q) and the high mana cost makes it impossible to spam in lane. Nami isn't the problem, nerfing every other enchanter, their items and their abilities, while also nerfing late game, scaling adcs is the problem. Nami synergizes really well with early game adcs and that's why her winrate is a little high (it's not higher than Kassadin (who still hasn't been adressed), Graves or Ahri), her ban rate is less than 0.9% GLOBALLY, she's a win more or lose hard support. Plus, Nami literally hasn't received a buff or a nerf ever since season 5, that's how balanced Nami is and that shows that the problem isn't with Nami, the current one-shot/damage creep meta is the problem. For context: Nami had a 49.5% winrate and a 6-7% popularity around patch 8.5-8.6. After that they: * gutted crit. * buffed Jhin. * released Kaisa. * buffed Lucian 2 times. * nerfed ADCs sustain. * buffed Ignite. * nerfed Heal. * released Conquereor (cough Draven cough MF). * released Stormrazor, which is insane on early game adcs. * nerfed Sona, Karma, Janna, Lulu, Taric, Rakan, TK, Morgana, Braum (aka every single peeling support besides Soraka). * nerfed every Forbidden Idol item (Mikael's, Redemption, Arden Censer). * buffed early game supports like Thresh, Leona, Nautilus and Pyke. * nerfed enchanters scalings (doesn't really matter for Nami's performance). * they buffed Athene's, Nami's best item.
> Plus, Nami literally hasn't received a buff or a nerf ever since season 5, Nami did get small buffs since season 5 over time. Making hyperbole statements lowers just your own credibility.
Sydney26 (EUW)
: Riot did it again ... and learned nothing
I smell Riven, i HATE Riven. Aatrox rework is bad because Riven.
Novalas (NA)
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.13
What do you think about Nami? I've seen her being in top win rates for multiple patches now and i feel like a nerf will eventually come her way. I understand that Nami has a rather "fair" kit so it's hard for people to notice when she's strong, winrate usually being the only indication.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 6
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 1
Thoughts on Nami? For multiple patches, she's been in top winrates. She's a "fair" champion, her kit is the type that players don't complain about her even when she's strong, but i know the past and if a champion is in top winrates for too long they do get nerfed eventually. I remember you mentioned changes to support heal/shield stat in items, but i don't think this will affect her much. Her being so popular makes it hard to pick her.
: What We Heard on Ranked 2019
I find this role switching abuse questionable, as in i doubt players would actually bother with it. Players mention how someone would switch to their main role while on off role for an easy win, but you can't reliably expect to get that switch every single time and even if you do get that (with the help of your friend let's say). Then what? your off role is the same rank as your main, but you cheated the system and you still suck on that off role so in an off chance you get that off role you will lose, unless you switch again, but as i said i really don't expect people to be that willing to do that. Doing this in general, just ruins the account itself.
: You Killed the Jungle, Riot...
A man can dream that the game will finally won't be decided by the jungler.
Novalas (NA)
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.11
What kind of ADC Pyke prefers?
Reav3 (NA)
: The waters around Bilgewater are pretty big, and pretty scary so Naut isn't the only one to have come back from those deeps. I would wait until all the lore is released though as I think both Pyke and Naut play out much differently even if there are some similarities. There are many Champions who originate from the void, for example, even if they play out differently despite there origins.
Sounds like it's not a good idea to drown people in Bilgewater because they might come back as a vengeful spirit.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 4
Would it be possible to add chat during the loading screen? I'd imagine there could be a lot of technical difficulties. Also, wasn't there supposed to be a support talk today?
Milieu (NA)
: Can We As a Community Be Civil for ONCE?
2. I doubt there will be an increase in grind, this is just a change to league system, mmr seems like is gonna be the same. I would also say the current system in specific elos is more grindy. I'm speaking about Diamond, it's quite a huge grind with minimal visible progress. The point of it seems to make it smoother. > [{quoted}](name=Jubiłeus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=UJpMOvRL,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-26T04:27:23.456+0000) > > Having 5 separate ranks for each position will be definitely too time-consuming in terms of climbing the ladder; while I do understand making ranks harder to get and more worthy of people their caliber, 5 is too much. I find this concern pretty weird. Why do people suddenly have the need to climb ALL the ladders? Do people also play all the current ladders? I'm personally ignoring 3v3 and I admit I did play flex, but I played more like a more serious normal than an actual ranked. Do people think rewards will be based on each ladder? I'd assume Riot is still gonna reward you based on your highest role.
Naalith (NA)
: I want to give Riot major props on all the things discussed in the latest Riot Pls
I feel like people are too focused on one edge abuse case and ignore all the good it brings.
: I was surprised by the amount of negative discussion around the mana changes personally, as the manaflow band changes we shipped recently had a much more noticeable effect on how the laning phase played out IMO. I haven't experienced any feelings that the class feels dramatically weaker in our playtests. I believe that players learning to opt OUT of interaction with their opponents has made the game a lot less fun, and every time I see an Inspiration/Resolve TF with Minion Dematerializer, I get a little sad. I do think there will be followup balance necessary, however, as opting out of interaction is how you survive the laning phase against a lot of assassins (Fizz/Zed/LeBlanc) and believe that trying to get towards a state where it is a fallback strategy as opposed to the optimized strategy in most matchups is desirable for making mid lane more fun over the long term.
I would like to say that I find your explanation for mana changes were a bit bad and too focused on pro play, which I understand was the main point of it. With your explanation, it just looks a straight up nerf, with barely anything in return. You really understated some parts of the changes. You called Dorans ring change a loss in power, but it barely looks like that. I understand for pro play, where Dorans ring can be theyr only source of mana, but for casual players, it tends to be usefull only early. In general, these changes seem like a pretty big buff to early game mana sustain, which a lot of casual players have trouble with.
Novalas (NA)
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.9
What's with spellthief nerf? is it because enchanters were on a strong side for a while now? I know Riot wanted to nerf enchanters for a while now and were looking for an opportunity, In the past you tested a nerf to{{item:3114}} heal shield strength, but it was scrapped back then because enchanters were too weak.
: I'm personally very in favor of the mana changes. Mages have been dominant Mid lane in competitive for multiple seasons now, and their ability to successfully farm out the wave via PvE wave clearing has been a huge component. I think this is a necessary step if we are going to get other classes back into Mid in competitive, which is clearly a win to me (no single class should dominate a position for multiple years). We have been testing some slightly different numbers than what's on PBE now, so I'm not yet confident that the current changes are quite hitting the mark in terms of tuning. Hopefully we can get them into a good spot for 8.9 though and if it turns out Mages are still circumventing resource management afterwards we can do followup further nerfs to the culprit (I'd suspect it'd be Tear in this scenario).
> [{quoted}](name=RiotMadnessHeroo,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=oYqIA0zf,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-18T23:03:55.518+0000) > > (I'd suspect it'd be Tear in this scenario). I feel like tear and archangel nerfs went in a wrong direction. As an item, it gives a MASSIVE mana pool. I understand the point of Mage item update was to make all mage starting items start with lost chapter, but I don't think lost chapter fits archangel. If you put lost chapter into archangel you get that massive manapool, which with that passive creates the issue at hand. For a long time, I felt like archangel really did need that 10% cdr, but I think that could've been achieved with {{item:3108}}. Lastly, with the upcoming changes it feels like tear could become a must buy item.
: Mage are not being nerfed, stop being idiotic
Riot made a mistake understating the power mages will get in the early game, which I think where tends to be the biggest frustration with mana management. After that players usually solve this issue with items.
: Mana changes. Riot please can i like, have a response?
This issue is being made bigger than it really is, Riot made a mistake understating the power mages will get in the early game, which I think where players currently tend to have the biggest frustration. After that players usually solve this issue with items. I don't see anything that significant besides the smaller base mana pool at later levels, but items seem mostly the same. They called Dorans ring losing power, but it just doesn't look like it to me, sure it will scale weaker as a game will go on, but it really looks more powerful early, that coupled with a bigger early mana pool.
: Ryze work on PBE
I think meddler mentioned that there will be no more work done on these pro-scene problematic champions and you intend to relocate those resources to other champions that need them more. So what is this?
AzuBK (NA)
: This is one of the more experimental changes noted in the comment above the full changelist. The output of LeBlanc's ultimate isn't drastically different from other mages' ults in lane, and the necessity for a low cooldown at that stage isn't clear. So we're trying out aggressive cooldown scaling as a first step here, and we'll be looking at how games play out and the feedback we get and tuning as makes sense.
Seems like alot of LB mains don't like this change, but as someone, who remembers how much of a pain in the ass LB used to be in lane with that low cd R, i fully support it.
: While the change to applying Grievous Wounds at all levels of HP certainly hurts, I would actually expect the Morello changes to benefit Soraka as it's now more of a niche item and isn't going to be present in nearly as high a percentage of Soraka's games as previously (when almost every mage bought it). Soraka also heals most in teamfights with her Ult on low-health targets, which were often already getting hit by the previous Morello model. Definitely think Soraka is on the weak side currently though, unfortunately no plans I can share right now.
I assumed previously players rushed Liandry's as second item because of it's penetration and good Ap and now that AP and penetration was moved to morello with it's full health GW. I would assume Morrelo would replace current liandrys place as 2nd rush item and soraka will end up in an even worse spot than before. I would also say that ussually the job of a midlaner is to kill a squishy target so an item with penetration is a pretty good choice for them because ther'es ussually an adc that's squishy and needs a good load of death.
Meddler (NA)
: Looking for topics for Friday's post
Is manaflow band nerf still coming, i think i've seen it coming for patch 8,2(not too sure exactly which one), but it was scrapped. There was also an idea to nerf heal/shield items, but previously you hesitated to do so because at that moment enchanters werent performing too well, but now at least according to champion.gg top winrates are taken by assassins, so is the enchanter nerf coming? Im worried about all those things because im a Nami main and i've seen her in top winrates for a long time, but it was a together with other tanks and now only enchanters are left so im a bit worried a nerf is coming, manaflow band is also quite usefull for Nami too.
: Swain's Placeholder Asset found on the PBE
Riot is upping theyr splash art standarts
Rioter Comments
: # Things DOTA does better than League: * Sane AFK protection (once someone goes away and stays gone, everyone gets to bail out consequence-free) * Much better graphics * Customizable terrain/hud/announcer/music skins * LPQ for leavers and toxic assholes keeps them out of games played by civil folks better than Riot's unrealistic "reform 'em" stance * Main game modes aren't infested with bots and scripters, Valve actually seems to care about keeping them away * Public chat rooms delineated by region, even down to the city level * The Arcade system has all the silly game modes you could possibly want, *and players can build their own*. * Individual unlockables for champions (not just overall skins, but individual pieces of their look like weapons or clothes) * Esports streaming uses the replay system but includes commentary and camera direction *and is in the main client* * Built-in mentoring system * Built-in champion build guides * Better bots for AI matches - they're actually a challenge at max difficulty and have user-customizable scripts (that can chat, to humorous effect) * Turrets are actually substantial objectives rather than speed bumps * Skin components are user-designed. It's not a free-for-all, but there are regular design competitions * No snowball meta * Information isn't hidden from players for specious conduct reasons. You can actually see your MMR. # Things that are debatable * DOTA is a much more complex game at the end of the day. There are more mechanics (day/night cycle, high ground, courier, denies, secret shop, and more) and **many ** more active-use items. * Being a jerk in DOTA consigns you to the low priority queue, not banishment. * Skin wagering on esports matches * No persistent/pregame builds like summoner spells or runes/masteries. Your champion build is all you have. # Things League does better than Dota * Turret range actually makes sense * Patch notes actually explain why they're doing what they're doing (DOTA just drops the numbers on you) * Community engagement (even if it's just talking, not listening) * Faster queue times * Better lore, even with the recent gut/rewrite
Some points seem questionable here: > * LPQ for leavers and toxic assholes keeps them out of games played by civil folks better than Riot's unrealistic "reform 'em" stance all competetive games are known for theyr toxicity, whenever i see any talk regarding league or dota both are mentioned as jsut as toxic. and while form what OP here mentioned it does seem dota handles afk better, league does punishish leavers too. > * Main game modes aren't infested with bots and scripters, Valve actually seems to care about keeping them away this one especially is questionable for me, personally i've never met a scripter(or at least havent tried to look for one as an excuse for my loss), seen some threads people pointing out how someone is a scripter. i heard TT normals get bots, but never seen one in SR. i admit Ai games have bots, but those are jsut ai games. Also im not too sure about Valves abilitys to handle scripters, i've seen people complaining quite alot about scripters in CSGO. >* No snowball meta the way OP described game it sounds like they have oppostite problem of that.
IAmWoralo (EUW)
: Why are supports not playing with zombie wards and active item cdr?
Here's my reasoning as nami one-trick. Initially when i first saw new runes, zombie ward seemed like a hidden op thing. Im slightly less interested in active item cdr thingy, because i don't tend to get alot of actives or even rely on them, i preffer the out of combat ms boost. I did try it out with glacial augment while going full ham on active cdr and geting a bunch of actives. It was fun and i suspet i could use it for some specific games, but it felt lacking not really something i could use in a serious ranked game, also i felt it was quite an overkill in cdr, my frostqueen was often too foten, i woudn get the chance to use it as often as it was up(it was just a general feeling a got from it) i feel like that sightstone upgrade would give enough active item cdr. now onto why not zombie ward. First i did try out domination as primary tree with electrocute and it didnt feel that good. i would like to say that even in S7 i preffered using TLD over windspeaker so electrocute wasnt sucha far off thing for me. But what about domination as a secondary tree? well the issue is that early in the game domination tree doesnt have alot of power(well it's practically non existent), other tree option for early game are much better and for a support early game is the most important part. Domination tree just doesnt really have alot of in lane power, most of it is once things have started going, while other trees like resolve and inspiration have usefulness both in lane and out of it. I will admit that the fact that it was and still is pre-season where games were really early game focused and very snowbally and recently we got a patch that tune things down a bit so maybe i'll be able to get away with going domination. Gonna have to wait and try out.
: Why Are These Players Playing With Me?
Don't trust any site that gives you MMR values, they can't know them, they're only guessing. If you wanna know where your mmr is then check with what rank players you're playing with. Players like that already tend to climb really quickly and the visible rank tends not to match theyr actual mmr.
Vei (NA)
: I really like the smell of mint
Grow mint indoors, but you'll probably get used to the smell. Still it is nice to come back to a mint smelling home.
çõdy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Enjutsu,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LT0Xkkqv,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-12-12T05:12:45.993+0000) > > In the end, this is your word vs theyrs. The thing that really scares me is that I asked them if there was anything I could do once the account is unbanned in the future to protect myself from getting wrongfully banned again, they told me that there was nothing I could do to prove my innocence.
How can we know you were really banned wrongfully?
çõdy (NA)
: Banned Wrongfully for MMR Boosting.
In the end, this is your word vs theyrs.
Kr1sys (NA)
: Remember when everyone was up in arms over old AP Nid because her spears chunked you safely
Just wanna start with that im not really up for whatever she's weak or strong, my current stand point would be that we still need more time to understand her, it's been only few days into the patch. But i think the difference between her and other typical new champion releases is probably that it's more about players learning how to play against her than as her. for example for me Q in lane was quite easy to understand, but i kept forgeting that her ult isnt an escape(missed a bunch of kill opportunitys), E is also weird.
iLBGAMing (EUW)
: Why does it cost mana for amumu to cry? (W)
Well mana is blue and tears are also blue, so of course it will cost mana to cry. Use logic {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
: I have never seen a character with a more horribly designed kit than Zoe.
I downvoted you because you said it in a really rude way.
: In lower elo, how much is a support's ability to carry games based on the competency of the adc?
You look too much at your adc, your primary focus should be on enemy adc.
Cloud273 (NA)
: Sona is at 58% win rate right now...
It could be Kleptomancy rune, according to champion.gg it is her highest winrate build, ez is also doing really well with that rune, ADC ez. I did hear that kleptomancy is probably the OP thing now. Gp seems also to be abusing this rune. There's also the fact that there's lack of MR runes so sona poke hurts alot.
: > A takedown is a champion kill or assist What is the problem? you literally already answered your own question.
Well that's only a lol wiki description, i don't really trust that.
Sparkle (NA)
: Brace Yourselves: Runes Are Coming
So i was checking runes from support perspective and what i could potentially do with them and my question is what are takedowns? Are assists included? according to wiki: "A takedown is a champion kill, assist or a turret kill that a champion attains in League of Legends." the reason im asking is because precision and domination trees have alot of runes related to takedown, but if those takedowns mean only killls as support i find them way too unreliable.
Vekkna (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Enjutsu,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=tqLzRtbG,comment-id=001300010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-19T06:13:25.224+0000) > > AD and AP work differently. Ad is ussually dps based while AP is ussually burst based. This was a longstanding rule that has been undone over time, beginning with the adc class update and item rework in preseason 6. Your statement is also just illogical and provably false. For example: {{champion:126}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:64}} These aren't dps champs, even if they happen to also have strong dps (eg Noct, J4). When you look at designs like Kha and Kayn, they follow the exact same rules as APs - base damage + bonus scaling. > I don't think it was really competing with other high damge items, it was more with other first lower cost items like {{item:3027}} {{item:3165}} or {{item:3174}}. Yeah, and it still sucked because it had 50 AP, 10% CDR, and 10 mp5 for 100g less than Morello at 80 AP and 20% CDR, or 100g less than Athene's at 60 AP, 20% CDR, and mana font passive. At no point after the aura removal was the item competitive. Not because spell vamp is inherently terrible but because it was always overpriced and outclassed. > Im a bit surprised you pick 125 AP and not just 120. Still highest AP item we already have is {{item:3089}} with 120 it's own AP next high AP item is {{item:3285}} with 100 and only then we come to {{item:3151}} and {{item:3003}} with 80. I didn't "pick" 125 AP, I did the math to find out how much AP DD would have without any change in cost or utility. For 3500g that comes out to 124.8 AP. > In current Ap item standarts this kind of high damage AP item would be more like with 100 AP, but i think spellvamp and cdr aspect makes it more like a utility item you would want to rush faster so it's probably in 80or maybe 70 AP area. Why do AP items with utility automatically have to suck? 70-80 AP range is 45-50 AD range. Let's find the AP equivalents: {{item:3812}} 125 AP {{item:3147}} 86 AP {{item:3142}} 86 AP {{item:3814}} 86 AP {{item:3508}} 109 AP {{item:3139}} 101 AP {{item:3074}} 125 AP {{item:3072}} 125 AP All of those have over 50 AD. The only AP items that are even competitive with this group are {{item:3165}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3151}}, and even those are completely outclassed by the 80 AD lifesteal items. My whole point is that either the lifesteal items are completely overpowered (they are), or AP items in general are underpowered (some of them are). The absurdity of DD becomes pretty apparent when you start asking for the AP equivalent, and that's equally true for the itemization of the lethality items. > Lastly don't forget the core design issue i mentioned with the spellvamp in general. That's not a design issue, it's a player expectation issue. You're right that spellvamp is a shit stat for combat sustain 90% of the time. It's also extremely useful for general sustain because you can push waves to heal instead of recalling to heal. ADs, tanks, and hybrids all have ways to regen health without recalling; mages don't.
Ap chiampions are more gated by mana than health. If Ap items have sucha horrible worth, then why arent mages obsolete?
Vekkna (NA)
: What I'm suggesting is the exact gold equivalent of the AD item. Why is it unreasonable for APs to have an item that's *exactly proportionate* to an AD item? Again, the old versions of WotA were competing against DFG, a 120 AP Zhonya's, a Deathcap that was like 500g cheaper, and then a 120 AP Luden's with a proc as broken as Shiv. And by "broken OP stats" you mean the equivalent of 80 AD? How is that over the top when it's already in the game for AD casters with enormous ratios?
> What I'm suggesting is the exact gold equivalent of the AD item. Why is it unreasonable for APs to have an item that's exactly proportionate to an AD item? AD and AP work differently. Ad is ussually dps based while AP is ussually burst based. I don't think it was really competing with other high damge items, it was more with other first lower cost items like {{item:3027}} {{item:3165}} or {{item:3174}}. Im a bit surprised you pick 125 AP and not just 120. Still highest AP item we already have is {{item:3089}} with 120 it's own AP next high AP item is {{item:3285}} with 100 and only then we come to {{item:3151}} and {{item:3003}} with 80. In current Ap item standarts this kind of high damage AP item would be more like with 100 AP, but i think spellvamp and cdr aspect makes it more like a utility item you would want to rush faster so it's probably in 80or maybe 70 AP area. Lastly don't forget the core design issue i mentioned with the spellvamp in general.
Meddler (NA)
: We're testing some Ardent nerfs at present. Big point of discussion for us is whether to put it at balanced, which is probably close ish to its current (not Worlds, but live) state, or nerf it hard enough it's just a really poor first item so people re-evaluate it and its impact. Normally we'd want to try and go for balanced, with pre-season coming up and many players still treating it/talking about it like the 7.18 version getting pro play still there's a stronger argument for just hitting it hard enough it's just not very relevant and then adjusting it after the balance state resets in pre-season anyway.
Do you think Ardent is as OP as players seem to think or it's just that players not being able to forget that it was OP recently and worlds being in the patch where it was OP not helping the situation either?
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Enjutsu

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