Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 28
Are you kidding me? Not even a patch has passed since Celerity nerf and it just so happens that Absolute Focus "needs to be acted upon". So much for opening more choices in Sorcery tree if you're just gonna nerf them right after
Hayaishi (NA)
: Playing an immobile champion in this game is like being a cripple
Imagine playing Rumble, not only are you an immobile clunky piece of shit but also all of your damage is dealt over an absurdly long amount of time and it barely breaks even when compared to the amount of damage dealt by regular burst abilities. That's like being mega ultra crippled
Reav3 (NA)
: Nautilus is not currently on our VGU list, no
Hey, I know it might be exhausting to get and answer all these questions but I can't keep myself from asking one as well. How does Rumble stand in this whole GU/VGU craze?
: Be God King Garen
Tbh I've joined God King Darius mostly because I wanted to piggyback off of these edgy teenagers, guess it worked out in the end
: This again? The Spear works at 30% versus dots _and_ applies before other reductions, meaning it anti-synergizes with Helm's effect and its MR. It's _fine_.
It's not that people can stack it with Helm is dreadful, but the fact that this item even has a chance to make it to live alone makes me think that there's no reason to pick Rumble anymore as the repertoire of things that counter him just got broader. Besides, I'm pretty sure you can combine Spear with Death's Dance and get an even nastier effect than with Helm.
Oznap (NA)
: Nimbus Cloak actually pretty helpful on Rumble and he wasn't even in the video that Riot made to show examples of champions it excels on. Being able to initiate and chase down foes with Nimbus Cloak is actually pretty nice with Rumble.
While Nimbus Cloak is actually pretty ok on Rumble, and I like it much more than the Ultimate Hat, I really wish that Rumble could actually use it aside from incredibly fringe cases. His kit is just so unreliable and ineffective that any sort of follow up on his own is pointless, and any attempt of following up with your team feels either too risky (you're too squishy to actually contribute and your damage takes too long to be dished out) or is a complete overkill (before you even get there your team has already wiped enemy team off, leading to you not getting to contribute at all).
Meddler (NA)
: We think it's part of what he needs yeah, given he gets bullied pretty hard in lane. Also testing damage buffs to his ult as well, since it should be one of the primary reasons you want to bring him.
Rather than just slapping damage onto his kit, could you perhaps try and make his damage a bit more reliable first? In my opinion, one of the biggest reasons to him being weak is that he's too dependant on his team to achieve his average/best case scenario in terms of dps, if you don't have an entire teamcomp built around Rumble, Equalizer does little to nothing to the enemy team and Rumble can't make use of his base kit past 20 minute mark without getting obliterated. All the official changes so far seem to be both incredibly lazy and counter-productive to what any Rumble nerf over the past 2 years was trying to achieve, while also ignoring the obvious problems. Seriously, it's annoying how other unpopular champions every now and then get these super crazy changes and new mechanics to better reflect their niche/make their gameplay more enjoyable, while Rumble gets little to no actual support aside from lazy number changes that probably took less than 2 hours to test and implement, guess Rumble isn't memed enough by reddit for you to care.
: {{champion:516}} is basically what {{champion:68}} used to be, in my eyes, plus you get the Masterworks. I agree that {{champion:68}} 's in a bad place and could use some love. I hardly ever see him anymore, compared to a few years ago when he was a top toplaner.
Oh yeah, how could I forget that they don't need to actually give a shit about Rumble since they made a better Rumble in the form of Ornn
: RIP AP DoT mages {{item:3194}} + Spear of Shojin are going to be a pure bs combo
Let's also not forget that {{item:3151}} got nerfed for all the battlemages because Mordekaiser of all fucking champions had to break it
: IMO i think he should be reworked.
And I completely agree with you, I'd love for Riot to just rework him from scratch and make him into an actual champion than a glorified melee minion with an ultimate
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 1
Hey, is Rumble being currently looked at? And if so, what potential changes are going to be explored on him?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 25
Is there a possibility that Rumble will get another look along the way? Seeing how last buff didn't exactly do anything meaningful it seems like he needs something more
: Ahh, glad you're excited for this guy! Unfortunately, we haven't announced any specific date for his release, just that he'll be coming out in this patch. Shouldn't be too much longer, though~!
Whatever that date may be, my wallet is ready
Cynikul (NA)
: Ya its def a little OP against dot champs, no doubt about that. Not sure how it can be balanced around that very, very niche thing though, especially since not a (ton) of champions utalize dots early game, and I definetely wouldnt go and say its super strong of a rune, considering what noxus said (sacrificing dmg or more resistances for very weak health regen). Maybe it should scale? IDK.
I suppose giving it a scaling of sorts might not be too bad, making it more relevant across the entire game while making it not as overbearing with Dshield early game sounds not that bad
: I like second wind because it helps you survive through the landing phase against poke based champions. Also no, I think it's fine as is, your sacrifing both forms of resistances for health Regen.
On its own, I can agree that Second Wind isn't particularly problematic to deal with, though it still is this boring, ambient health regen buff that's not particularly interesting. Stacking it with Doran's shield and other on-hit regen effects/healing amps is the problem here, as it makes it makes the game uninteractive for DoT based champions, and while I understand that it's this rune's niche of sort, there's too much stuff that does its job already, making it feel excessive and redundant.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 30
Is Rumble going to recieve any further changes in the next patches? Or is he just going to stay like this while we wait for some miraculous meta shift
: I don't think so. I believe what's on the PBE is what we're planning on delivering at this point.
Well that's a shame, I guess I'll wait for the upcoming patches to see if there's some follow up work there, or a VGU at this point
: Also in for 8.7.
I know I'm sidetracking once more but I'd like to ask if there's any other Rumble changes that might/will make it in the following days of this pbe cycle?
: It's something we considered (and also tested some internally), but didn't find a good way to make it work - there were parts of it that were appealing but there were a lot of gains from the 7.12 changes that we'd like to preserve if possible.
Yeah, I suppose that afterall, both iterations have their ups and downs, and I can see why staying with current one might have greater benefits. Last thing I'd like to ask about is, what's the general stance on Rumble being an ult bot? Especially in the age of where Balance Team has been trying to make champions strength be defined by more than just one single ability. And if Rumble was to get those larger-scoped changes, would they be going in the direction of Sejuani/Maokai updates?
: We tried some less tame changes during the last cycle but didn't find anything that felt appropriate. Rumble's a problematic champion to shift power around for a variety of reasons (e.g. his cooldowns have to be balanced around heat so they can't be used as real levers like most champions). There are some designers that are definitely interested in doing larger-scope Rumble work, but as of right now there's no plans for it.
I'll be definitely looking forward to that then, and will keep my fingers crossed for you guys to find an appropriate change in the meantime. On the side note, would a revert of 7.12 changes and taking a different approach from there be an option? Like going back to that state, and balancing Rumble around the old very short Q cd but also faster heat decay as the primary principles
Meddler (NA)
: Still testing the Q buff at present, other changes haven't been working out as well so far (W duration, E recast model, R slow changes etc). Nothing set in stone yet.
Thank you for the response! If I can suggest some smaller scope changes from myself, I'll drop it here (I'd like to apologize in advance, I didn't intend to make it this long): - What if Q was dealing the same damage, but over the course of shorter duration? I personally think that it would help Rumble out get some ground in the early game, since Doran's Shield and Second Wind are both really popular choices, that also happen to make Rumble's current kill pressure nearly non-existant, with the shorter duration of his Q, these effects would be not as extremely impactful as they would be refreshed less often. While at the same time, it can be a balancing levarage for Rumble to reduce some of his ambient poke, and make it so that casting Q doesn't feel like "I have pressed one button and you cannot approach until you items to counter me" when Rumble's strong. It gives Rumble both opportunity to deal better with the essentially impossible to counter stat-check that screws his laning phase over, while also giving his opponents some more clearer window of opportunity to engage on him. - Is giving his W movement speed immunity to collision (kinda like how Jayce's stance switch works) out of question? That's something that Rumble players, including myself, have been wanting to see in years honestly. The benefits that this can give is both giving Rumble some slight amount of power in his base kit, as he'll be able to approach his opponents more consistently through minion waves, while at the same time adds a subtle layer of complexity to usage of his W, something that this ability has been pretty much since its release, resulting in it becoming more of a heat managing tool rather than an actual ability. (Though some slight buffs to shield's bulkyness would be welcome too) - Have you perhaps thought of giving his double-E some different sort of reward rather than just an increased slow? Don't get me wrong, the slow this ability provides is really strong, but I feel like in today's gamescape, it's about time it was somewhat changed, since if you get one slow on an immobile champion, you can already keep up the pace with them, if however it's a highly mobile champion or they flashed, even the double slow is hardly ever going to help, perhaps reducing double slow's effectiveness and giving it some sort of additional reward might up it more to the modern standards. Like giving it a slight magic pen bonus against enemy hit, to give Rumble some additional way of dealing with tankier targets without having to rely on Liandry (which with the 8.4 AP itemization pass he kinda lost), or maybe making double-E put a grounding effect on the target would better refine this ability as a catching tool. - Speaking of grounding effects, has grounding on ultimate been explored? Of course, I'm not saying that it should be just straight up like Cassiopeia's Miasma, maybe to highlight it more as a punishing tool for enemy champions who have been sticking on Rumble's Equalizer for too long, kind of in similar way as Viktor's Gravity Field works. So like, after taking ~6 damage ticks from Equalizer, the player is grounded so long as they're still standing in the Equalizer. Would really help to deal with those hypermobile champions who just dash in and out of the Equalizer, effectively spending a lot of time in it, but still being very hard to actually catch and deal damage to. I don't really expect you to put these changes into the game word for word, but if you at least read it, and maybe put into consideration for the future, that'd be good enough for me. Thank you!
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 23
Hello, are there any other Rumble changes currently in testing to go alongside the Q buff? Or maybe we'll see a different iteration in the following days? While I do like the current direction that the buffs are taking I still think that they could be refined a bit better and I'd like to know what's your and the whole team's take on that
: We're likely shipping something in 8.7 for Rumble, who doesn't feel great about some of the new AP itemization now that he can't get everything he needs off his first item (the old Liandry's). Don't think we have anything planned for Kennen at the moment.
Hey, is there a chance that there will we some followup changes to the current Rumble changes that are up on PBE? While I like the direction of giving some power back to his early game, it still doesn't feel like enough given that he's still very easy to counter (Doran's Shield, Second Wind, Revitalize and Spectre's Cowl/Adaptive Helm all stacked on top of each other is just way too much especially since all of these effects come online way faster than Rumble can even finish his core item). I'm really hoping to see something more in-depth since so far every single Rumble balance change has been really tame, and his kit is still kept by the leash in the space of "the only thing you're allowed to do is being a mediocre ult bot, deal with it punk", and that's also somewhat responsible for the situation that we're in now, I'd even dare to say he warrants a Gameplay Update at this point because of how underwhelming he is on every concievable level.
Rioter Comments
: i think rumble needs a rework for the shield, or a better clean for the waves... he is so weak at the moment...{{champion:68}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3151}}
Yeah, at this point Rumble does deserve some justice in this regard. While it's nice to see that they're actually taking time to give some good and well thought out changes, they should really think of doing some more experimental changes, since at this point his kit is really showing how outdated it is.
Siddharta (EUW)
: It's not about that Erdamon, you are our spokesman and we trust you for what you say and admire you for the work you did in the past and the efforts you are still making for the Rumble's community. It's more about that you seemed really happy for that, while there was no real change after two weeks of thinking. Oour boy is still sitting at the worst possible %win ratio in the top lane since the last six months and the balance team thinks that this will be enough? Also, the runes you listed above are not and won't be really picked. Perhaps Chrysalid will be a decent option, we will see. Anyway, again, thanks for everything that you are doing, really appreciate that. <3
I mean, compared to what we were given in the last cycle and how Riot usually approaches Rumble this is probably one of the better things that we can get lol, and again, I keep stating everywhere that while this is good, it's not good enough. I guess we'll have to wait for the next patch to see how things play out.
Nerouin (NA)
: I strongly agree that this is a good buff. Here are the issues * First and foremost, it's nothing but numbers buffs. Rumble's issues since 7.12 haven't been numbers, they've been that he's super clunky and has a predictable and very spaced-out trading pattern in top lane, and awful clears in the jungle due to 10-second Q. Oh, and EVERYONE hates the Q heat changes. Those were ostensibly meant to make what remains a very high skill-cap champion easier for beginners, which was odd; and in the event, they've seemingly done nothing but continue to anger longtime players and make him a less effective champion. * This buff overall does very little. It's a medium buff to early Q damage that falls off as the game goes on, so essentially your best bet is now to all-in repeatedly early on. Even then, this is a "meh" amount of damage every ten seconds, and ONLY if your enemy stands in your flamespitter for the entire time. If they're smart, they can simply wait out your flamespitter and then attack you in the massive engage window that's left. And then this buff does precisely jack for you. * It doesn't address Rumble's fundamental issue: he cannot bully lane. Again, this remains the product of 7.12 changes. Riot had some issue with him being a lane bully, when in fact this was his identity. He had counterplay. It was just difficult, as it should be for lane bullies. Now he's got a massively predictable and avoidable window of engage early on, and that makes him easy to deal with. If he can't bully lane, he can't get his massively expensive core items that are necessary in order for him to reach his mid-game power spike. * Maybe this is irrelevant to some, but Rumble is still dead in the jungle. He was slain in 7.12 out of hand. He was collateral damage. That sucks. He was a fun jungler, and one of the last mages still playable there. I'd like to see him brought back. This does nothing to help.
Maybe I should reiterate what I wanted to say with this post: It's a good change so long as there's some reasonable follow up to it or the values are not set in stone. Minion damage scaling with rank a very good idea if you ask me and there's no denying that it can certainly serve as a foundation for Rumble's further balancing (if Rumble's early waveclear is too oppressive it can be lowered at earlier ranks but also rescale to preserve its high value at later ranks), and while certainly purely adding damage isn't a good way to go about things, at least this time you can see that the problem was acknowledged. Adding 15 across all ranks was just a lazy fix, whereas this +40/30/20/10/0 damage clearly emphasizes the intent to improve Rumble's laning phase by making his Q more punishing if you get to keep your opponent inside of it. And of course, it's a good ***foundation***, a good ***basis***, by no means do I think that this is ready to ship to live and everyone will love it, Rumble still needs some sort of a reliable way to keep his enemies in that Q in the early game given his lack of mobility and his E requiring ranks put into it to start slowing for some good amount, and he's still fairly squishy (though it can be offset by Resolve tree quite easily but that's a completely different thing and doesn't change the fact that Rumble by himself is very weak in this regard). To put it straight, unless there's some additional buff to Rumble's W/E/Base stats I'll go back to whining about how terrible Riot's balancing team is (since what I've noticed people like it much more when I'm pissed)
123fire (EUNE)
: rumble top is a joke so i play him at mid and that 60% dmg to minions is a huge nerf if u ask me and the other thing that rumble is being able to play only at the sorcery tree is a HUGE joke aswell but this are riots devs nothing good can be expected from them xD
Technically the base damage buff still offsets minion damage nerf at earlier ranks, so there's that. As far as only going Sorcery goes, a few Rumble mains from our subreddit/discord server found success with Domination primary and Electrocute, though I can agree that Sorcery feels somewhat forced with its keystones. I'm still hoping for the best and hoping that Riot will eventually get it right.
Bern (NA)
: Absolute Focus wasn't buffed; the tooltip was just made clearer.
Oh, the way it was worded on S@20 made me think that it gives a permament ad/ap buff upfront, I guess I'll double-check it later or ask some people around.
123fire (EUNE)
: this is more like a adjust not a buff
Against minions, I agree, but against champions it's a pretty high damage buff, since at rank 1 you get 40 more damage (60 when in danger zone). It's kind of a shame that it doesn't have at least a little bump to rank 5 damage, but it still helps Rumble a lot get some ground in the early game, which is something that he's currently lacking.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 21
What's your current stance on Rumble? Should we expect the changes to him later this PBE cycle? Or is there a possibility that they will be delayed again?
SSmotzer (NA)
: Unfortunately Rumble's gameplay is in a pretty okay place. So he's pretty low on the list for champion relaunches. I noticed that for old champions with very little dialog, or with a crap model and animations, that are no where near ready for a relaunch, they just release an expensive skin that has the animations and voice quality they want to put on them. I see absolutely no reason what so ever to ever use this skin over Super Galaxy Rumble. Maybe I will buy it when they relaunch Rumble.
When in this entire post did I ask for a Rumble relaunch/rework/VU? I'm simply stating that if they already started making new animations specifically for this skin (making the whole point of Rumble not getting new animations obsolete) they should be consistent with it, if you give Rumble different legs and start giving him new animations, adjust all of them, if you can't do them all, don't bother changing the legs. Why is it that whenever any sort of Rumble discussion is raised up people force themselves to loae common sense and just make up mind-numbing, irrelevant statements like this
Rioter Comments
: You know what would make that recall even better, if he used a guitar while he spewed some flames.
Holy shit that would be so cool, maybe Pentakill Rumble will come along eventually to incorporate this
: 4 years actually but man THAT MAD MAX REFERENCE THO
I know that SG Rumble was released 4 years ago, I was reffering to my personal oath I've made 3 years ago, which was "I'm not spending a single fucking penny on this game until they give me a Rumble skin" Now that it's a thing I can happily throw money at the screen already
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 16
What are your plans on going forward with Rumble changes? Do you have some initial plans already? Partial reverts of past nerfs? (Most noteably heat and Q nerfs from 7.12) Maybe some slight rework? Power shift away from the ultimate maybe?
: Too conservative for my taste then :/ So, I guess set 2 or 3 would be nice to see on PBE next patch :) Hear is Riot!
I wouldn't really say that it's that conservative when all you really lose out is the ridiculous 105% slow (down to 90%), which due to slow cap isn't really that visible anyway, while at the same time spreading the slows between multiple targets is more efficient, since individual Danger Zone E would slow by 67,5% (up from current 52,5%). I guess it would be a bit more attractive if the charge/discharge mechanic would also have some added benefits of spreading that debuff between multiple targets (though imo potentitally burning two people at once for an infinite amount of damage is good enough), but as it is I don't think it's that bad, especially since, again, all you lose are the benefits that are impossible to achieve due to how the game works anyway.
Meddler (NA)
: Buffs weren't hitting the mark for 8.6. Looking at him again in 8.7 as a result.
Do you by any chance have some details on what you'll be aiming for in 8.7 changelist? Something a bit more in-depth would be appreciated
: As a Rumble main, I've got to say, Scrap Shield is the most boring do-nothing spells in the game. Both the shield and movement speed are very minor. Usually you're just spamming it to get back to lane, using it to quickly build heat, or generally using the shield to soak a bit of damage. I don't really care about being in the danger zone when I use it, either. I do wish they would replace Rumble's W with something more... interesting. Your "Mecha Thrusters" idea would be nice.
Yes, if Rumble was to get a rework I'd really like Scrap Shield to either get scrapped (hah) or moved somewhere else to free up an ability slot and introduce something more interesting. Thanks for stopping by!
Muscat (EUW)
: I love the set 3 with its "Safety Net", I love when the "scrap golem of junk yard" identity is used on Rumble. It's very funny. {{champion:68}}
Yeah, I feel like the "scrappy golem" part of Rumble's identity does deserve some highlight in his gameplay. Maybe not exactly the way I put it but that's something I felt like is worth sharing
: Really awesome work, man. I admire the amount of time and effort you invest into these threads! I really hope Riot will read that. * Set 1: Now hitting the same target with a second harpoon increases the slow value by 50% from 100% Is there a mistake or what? Increases by 50 from 100 - 150% slow? Isn’t 100% slow a root? If so - what does 150% slow do? * Set 2 (my favorite): I personally love the semi-revert one the most. I picked up rumble season 7, played 50 games of him with 60% winrate and got to silver for the first time in my life. So I was a complete newbie and I found his old heat mechanic quite simple and enjoyable to use. * Set 3: Overheat getting additional effects is cool as well. Second place in my Erdamon_suggestions_chart :) * Set 4: The last idea is kinda a mix of poppy’s passive and urgot’s E. It could work, but sound too generic in my mind. But I’m not sure, it can work. Third place.
Thank you for appreciation! It's great to see that someone fully reads these :) The slow increase is based on the original slow value, like how it works on live servers. Currently hitting both Es on the same target double the slow value, so putting it in other words, there's a 100% increase in slow value. My change basically means that hitting both Es with the base slow value of 25% will increase the slow to 37.5%. Overall it's meant to be power neutral/buff but not something ridiculous.
: Buffing rumble???? noooooooo
Not exactly buffing, I'd rather call it revamping/reimagining, of course they end up on the positive side of the power curve but Rumble very much deserves it.
Rioter Comments
Rude Name (OCE)
: Who are our resident experts for each champion?
I'm trying too hard to be that guy for Rumble lmao
: he was gutted due to pro's playing him a lot wasn't it?
It's never any other reason really, but then, that virtually goes for any other champion that isn't an assassin
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