Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-02-24T10:57:58.599+0000) > > Give me 1 good reason why toxicity deserve punishment. Calling somebody bad does not deserve punishment. You made very bad comparisons, only way to remove any toxic behavior is to remove chat all together. Just so you know l got ban for only about 7 games in total. So l was toxic 7 games in 3 months.Riots system is made like that just so lol does not get banned in China. Well toxic players ruin the enjoyment of the game for other people, which in turn can make it less likely that those others will play again, which in turn drives away business from the game. Thus it is in both Riot's and the overall community's best interest that the toxic players be driven out of the game. This also applies to real life as well. Just as I'm sure you don't like listening to others argue with each other those others don't like listening to you argue with someone else either. Furthermore, chat itself is not the issue, it's the players misusing chat and other features that are. Riot once did an experiment where players could rack up tons of chat restrictions (infinitely scaling, essentially a perma-mute in a sense), and what was discovered was that not only did it not help with reform, but the truly toxic individuals simply resorted to committing gameplay-related offenses instead (i.e. trolling, griefing, inting, etc.), things that are much harder to detect and prove intent for than simple chat-related offenses are. It's because of this discovery that the IFS was created, so players who frequently and consistently torment others are removed quicker than they would be otherwise. From [Riot Tantram:](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/wsObUaFj-if-tyler1?comment=00010001000000000000) > It really breaks down into two categories. > > 1.) Helping players reform > 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost. > > We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely. > > We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it. > > We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling. > > The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS. > > So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat? If someone isn't gonna behave properly despite being given multiple chances to do so then why shouldn't they be removed from the game?
> [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00090001,timestamp=2019-02-24T13:14:26.654+0000) > > Well toxic players ruin the enjoyment of the game for other people, which in turn can make it less likely that those others will play again, which in turn drives away business from the game. Thus it is in both Riot's and the overall community's best interest that the toxic players be driven out of the game. This also applies to real life as well. Just as I'm sure you don't like listening to others argue with each other those others don't like listening to you argue with someone else either. > > Furthermore, chat itself is not the issue, it's the players misusing chat and other features that are. Riot once did an experiment where players could rack up tons of chat restrictions (infinitely scaling, essentially a perma-mute in a sense), and what was discovered was that not only did it not help with reform, but the truly toxic individuals simply resorted to committing gameplay-related offenses instead (i.e. trolling, griefing, inting, etc.), things that are much harder to detect and prove intent for than simple chat-related offenses are. It's because of this discovery that the IFS was created, so players who frequently and consistently torment others are removed quicker than they would be otherwise. From [Riot Tantram:](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/wsObUaFj-if-tyler1?comment=00010001000000000000) > > If someone isn't gonna behave properly despite being given multiple chances to do so then why shouldn't they be removed from the game? You are just making assumptions about that. Almost all people l know including myself will not take others negative behavior to the heart. Being toxic does not ruin game for anyone.There is a mute button, if person does not want to hear what l want to say they can mute me in 1 sec and problem is finished. l don't like to label myself as toxic player.As winning the game is in my top interest. l am just the person who got a bit mad in chat from time to time. l never afked,fed enemy, or did anything negative that could affect gameplay of my teammates. If someones action does not affect game itself its should not be punished with game penalty. Chat restrictions are ok as they do the job there are made for. If you can't say anything negative in chat whats the point of it than? Removing chat would make 0 difference to the game itself. There is difference between true verbal abuse and just calling someone out for there own mistake. In every game chat log l got worst thing l said was 'noob' or 'useless'. Are those 2 words a reason for me losing my hours and my money l put in this game? Use logic to think about it.Getting banned for doing nothing that directly effect the game makes no sense. l am not ruining game for anyone at all, if someone really does not want to hear me they have option to do so. To be honest there is no counter argument against this.Just saying 'calling people bad will destroy teams moral' is just an assumption.10 out of 10 times when l said anything negative game remained same.We did not lose nor win because of my 'toxicity'. Truth be told people just don't care about chat.Riot vision on the matter is just uninformed and delusional.
Gothguy665 (EUNE)
: League ban system is VERY flawed
Give me 1 good reason why toxicity deserve punishment. Calling somebody bad does not deserve punishment. You made very bad comparisons, only way to remove any toxic behavior is to remove chat all together. Just so you know l got ban for only about 7 games in total. So l was toxic 7 games in 3 months.Riots system is made like that just so lol does not get banned in China.
Gothguy665 (EUNE)
: League ban system is VERY flawed
Toxicity does not deserve punishment.Getting physically stopped from playing game because of the things you said makes no sense. Toxicity will always be there.Its normal for multiplayer games. Punishment is ok but perma is a bit overkill chat restrictions and short bans sure.l don't know how people follow riot so blindly try to compere riots system with any other ban system.In most games you can get ban for toxicity but you really need to earn it.in lol you can get permaban with only 6 reported games.Even less if you use words like Kys and so on.
rujitra (NA)
: 1. Yes, you can. Research machine learning, artificial neural networks, and the like. The system punished people for flaming, harassment, abuse, and similar toxic attitudes. This does not depend on exact "trigger words" being used. 2. You seemed to miss the point where I say it's not an exact number of games, but it is dependent on how often and how consistently you play.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000002000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T01:08:19.797+0000) > > 1. Yes, you can. Research machine learning, artificial neural networks, and the like. > The system punished people for flaming, harassment, abuse, and similar toxic attitudes. This does not depend on exact "trigger words" being used. > > 2. You seemed to miss the point where I say it's not an exact number of games, but it is dependent on how often and how consistently you play. 1.Lets say we can't know for sure l will make experiment tomorrow and l will tell you results. 2.And your proof of that is?
: This line on its own it enough: > [All]Gothguy665: report my team pls One and done as it were. And as a programmer with experience in NLP, it's actually better for you that a bot is reviewing the logs. People bring bias and make assumptions about intent. With a bot you are being judged solely on the content of log, not on the impact of the words. It's pretty much a yes or no decision tree. Go far enough down the yes (it's considered a rules violation) and you're gone. I have no idea why people have so much trouble understanding the rules - and then blaming Riot for enforcing them.
> [{quoted}](name=Vaelkyrie,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-02-24T01:07:14.105+0000) > > This line on its own it enough: > > One and done as it were. > > And as a programmer with experience in NLP, it's actually better for you that a bot is reviewing the logs. People bring bias and make assumptions about intent. With a bot you are being judged solely on the content of log, not on the impact of the words. > > It's pretty much a yes or no decision tree. Go far enough down the yes (it's considered a rules violation) and you're gone. > > I have no idea why people have so much trouble understanding the rules - and then blaming Riot for enforcing them. l get your point for the first line.But problem with bot is lack of context.l read a lot of post of people getting banned out of context. It would be ok for bot to give 14 days bans.As riot themself claim only 0,006 people are permabanned, and l believe team is more than enough to cover that.People understand the rules and they hate them.Because bot is in command of the system, in other words most people who obey the rules just avoid using chat all together.As they know 1 bad word and 1 report can result of penalty.And those trigger words can be very very lite.
rujitra (NA)
: 1. Where is the proof? There is none. Words themselves are not toxic. Attitudes are. 2. Because it was 1, then another in 30-50 games, then another in 30-50 games ... Continually. There is no fixed number, it is based on you not being toxic in a hundred or more games and while playing actively over a couple months. If you do that, you will "drop" in punishment tier and not be issued a higher punishment next time you are punished.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T00:43:16.937+0000) > > 1. Where is the proof? There is none. Words themselves are not toxic. Attitudes are. > > 2. Because it was 1, then another in 30-50 games, then another in 30-50 games ... Continually. > There is no fixed number, it is based on you not being toxic in a hundred or more games and while playing actively over a couple months. If you do that, you will "drop" in punishment tier and not be issued a higher punishment next time you are punished. 1.Well why are people banned for just using bad words than.Words trigger penalty.If more trigger words are used the higher chance of penalty is. System is run by a bot and l am 100% sure that we are still not able to make bots that can read attitudes just like that. 2.So than l can be toxic 1 in 100 games? Your logic doesn't add up.l think only riot them self know exactly how many games/months you need before it resets.
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0006000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T00:30:34.158+0000) > > Speaking for that l am 100% sure that person who reported me was leona.l argued with her, she also flamed me. That doesn't sound like "not caring" at all. >Calling me something like 'idiot' or 'r%%%%%'. But I thought you didn't care? Why are you bringing it up? Why were you insulting them back? >As other people l didin't call as much as leona + they were silent for the most of the game so l don't think they reported me. That's an assumption. They could have just reported everyone involved because they didn't like there were two people arguing and insulting each other. > You mistaken something calling someone fat is attack on them personally , but calling someone useless or bad in a video game is just that.You attack there skill not them directly. You're not allowed to insult their skill in the game any more than you're allowed to insult them personally.
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00060000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T00:36:54.404+0000) > > That doesn't sound like "not caring" at all. > > But I thought you didn't care? Why are you bringing it up? Why were you insulting them back? > > That's an assumption. They could have just reported everyone involved because they didn't like there were two people arguing and insulting each other. > > You're not allowed to insult their skill in the game any more than you're allowed to insult them personally. 1.Lets just say it was equal fire between me and leona. 2.l really don't care. l did not report her as l don't feel like she said anything to ban to deserve it.l did not insult her back it was just flaming argument.l am bringing it up to add a bit of context to this conversation. 3.Most things are assumption, both lux and gnar were acting chill mostly. l stopped flaming them after 2/3 of the game and l said am sorry in the end so l really do not believe they reported me, as even if l called them bad l said gj to them couple of times too. 4.That i just stupid.Maybe riot does not allow it but most other games just don't care about little things like that. Also l believe that people on NA servers get a bit more offended with lite insults like that than the rest of the servers.
rujitra (NA)
: 1. The system does not use "trigger words", it evaluated chat as a whole. 2. The system does not care how many reports you get. 3. Being toxic within 30-50 games of your prior punishment is continual toxicity. Period.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000200000001,timestamp=2019-02-24T00:32:57.773+0000) > > 1. The system does not use "trigger words", it evaluated chat as a whole. > > 2. The system does not care how many reports you get. > > 3. Being toxic within 30-50 games of your prior punishment is continual toxicity. Period. 1.Not true it is proven that trigger words exist if you don't believe me l will make new account and say few bad words only in chat and ask for others to report me. 2. That is true ik that. 3.Well l don't follow your logic there.How can 1 in 30-50 games be continual?By your logic there should be a fixed number of games or time before it ends.Otherwise would mean that no matter how many games/months you played without toxicity, you will still be banned at some point.So which is it?
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00060000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T00:20:16.822+0000) > > First of all should we even put words '' useless'' and ''bad'' as insults? Think about it, if you are doing wrong 0/9 are you useful to the? l don't think so.They are not nicest words for sure but l don't believe for them to be a insult. Words like "idiot' 'r%%%%%' are insults. Calling someone fat is still perceived as an insult even if they are overweight. Just as calling someone an idiot or r%%%%% is an insult even if they have a medical condition that affects their ability to think. > l just have to add we don't play on the same server, you are on Na and l am on Eu Nordic east.As far as am aware people on the NA servers feel insulted much more than the rest of the servers. I'll have to add that you were reported this game, if no one cared about your insults you would have not been reported.
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000600000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T00:23:43.712+0000) > > Calling someone fat is still perceived as an insult even if they are overweight. Just as calling someone an idiot or r%%%%% is an insult even if they have a medical condition that affects their ability to think. > > I'll have to add that you were reported this game, if no one cared about your insults you would have not been reported. Speaking for that l am 100% sure that person who reported me was leona.l argued with her, she also flamed me. Calling me something like 'idiot' or 'r%%%%%'.As other people l didin't call as much as leona + they were silent for the most of the game so l don't think they reported me. You mistaken something calling someone fat is attack on them personally , but calling someone useless or bad in a video game is just that.You attack there skill not them directly.
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T00:00:55.330+0000) > > Thing is, most people who got insulted do not even care.Its normal for lol. That's an assumption by you. I find that most people don't like to be insulted no matter what game they play. > This are the thoughts of person who got insulted ''This person called me bad, meh we won game at least" and they queue for the next game. That's another assumption. > Idk why but everyone on the NA server has that idea that people who got called bad will be traumatized or something.\ There is a world of spectrum between "traumatized" and "not caring". I didn't play a game to be insulted over mistakes, it annoys me and it has no place in a game for enjoyment. > Truth be told most people just don't care.But l care because l lost my account for something that is normal in EVERY OTHER VIDEO GAME. There's that assumption again. You lost your account for continuing to break the rules despite being warned not to.
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0006000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-24T00:12:03.723+0000) > > That's an assumption by you. I find that most people don't like to be insulted no matter what game they play. > > That's another assumption. > > There is a world of spectrum between "traumatized" and "not caring". I didn't play a game to be insulted over mistakes, it annoys me and it has no place in a game for enjoyment. > > There's that assumption again. You lost your account for continuing to break the rules despite being warned not to. First of all should we even put words '' useless'' and ''bad'' as insults? Think about it, if you are doing wrong 0/9 are you useful to the? l don't think so.They are not nicest words for sure but l don't believe for them to be a insult. Words like "idiot' 'r%%%%%' are insults. l just have to add we don't play on the same server, you are on Na and l am on Eu Nordic east.As far as am aware people on the NA servers feel insulted much more than the rest of the servers.
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:34:52.841+0000) > > So should l be banned for just being toxic? People should not be banned for things they say but things they do. Yes. People who are actively toxic in game deserve to be banned, 2 weeks if not permanently. I can vouch for this because I've been 2 week banned twice for toxicity and I can say I deserved both of them.
> [{quoted}](name=ThatShinyPiplup,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000600000002,timestamp=2019-02-24T00:02:27.055+0000) > > Yes. People who are actively toxic in game deserve to be banned, 2 weeks if not permanently. I can vouch for this because I've been 2 week banned twice for toxicity and I can say I deserved both of them. l believe there is a limit to what you should be able to say without ban. l want to know what you said to get 14 days ban.
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:45:37.365+0000) > > That's a very bad question.Calling people bad will change the outcome of the game in any way 99% of the time. Enjoyment is an outcome of the game and its primary purpose. Having random people on the internet insult you can very well chance that outcome. >But people who feed afk, leave etc change outcome of the game in enemy favor losing game for entire team and making everyone frustrated.To be honest what do you like more winning ranked game in which 1 person calls you bad but carries you team.Or losing a ranked game with team that is doing nothing while not calling you bad. That's whataboutism. Yes, losing is worse than winning in a game for enjoyment. But that's an irrelevant matter when deciding if poor behavior should be allowed. Accountability is key. You're accountable and responsible for your own behavior. You make the choice to insult people.
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:51:16.924+0000) > > Enjoyment is an outcome of the game and its primary purpose. Having random people on the internet insult you can very well chance that outcome. > > That's whataboutism. Yes, losing is worse than winning in a game for enjoyment. But that's an irrelevant matter when deciding if poor behavior should be allowed. Accountability is key. You're accountable and responsible for your own behavior. You make the choice to insult people. Thing is, most people who got insulted do not even care.Its normal for lol. This are the thoughts of person who got insulted ''This person called me bad, meh we won game at least" and they queue for the next game. Idk why but everyone on the NA server has that idea that people who got called bad will be traumatized or something.\ Truth be told most people just don't care.But l care because l lost my account for something that is normal in EVERY OTHER VIDEO GAME.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: you can continue to be in denial as long as you want but that won't change anything good night!
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:44:39.019+0000) > > you can continue to be in denial as long as you want but that won't change anything > > good night! Good night!
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >People should not be banned for things they say but things they do. yes. and you were banned for doing something: flooding the chat with your drama
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:42:08.733+0000) > > yes. > > and you were banned for doing something: flooding the chat with your drama By doing l meant afk,feeding or leaving.
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:34:52.841+0000) > > So should l be banned for just being toxic? People should not be banned for things they say but things they do. What makes what you say any less real or influential of people's enjoyment of the game than the pixels that move around on the screen?
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:37:52.187+0000) > > What makes what you say any less real or influential of people's enjoyment of the game than the pixels that move around on the screen? That's a very bad question.Calling people bad will change the outcome of the game in any way 99% of the time.But people who feed afk, leave etc change outcome of the game in enemy favor losing game for entire team and making everyone frustrated.To be honest what do you like more winning ranked game in which 1 person calls you bad but carries you team.Or losing a ranked game with team that is doing nothing while not calling you bad.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >And you logic is that 'Oh well this guy was a bit annoying for 20-40 mins l really hope he gets peramaned forever". **"a bit annoying"**?!?! no dude. your roommate's snoring is **a bit** annoying your dog pulling on the leash too hard is **a bit** annoying placing the ward right next to the bush instead of in it is **a bit** annoying your chatlog is the "i'm glad this is over" type of annoying. there's nothing "a bit" about it
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:38:03.896+0000) > > **"a bit annoying"**?!?! > > no dude. > > your room mate snoring is **a bit** annoying > > your dog pulling on the leash too hard is **a bit** annoying > > placing the ward right next to the bush instead of in it is **a bit** annoying > > your chatlog is the "i'm glad this is over" type of annoying. there's nothing "a bit" about it You are looking at technicalities again.l was annoying in that game l was, l called people bad l did.But that's should not count as verbal abuse or anything like that.And l should not be reported just for few bad thing l said.
: I always love how people post their ban logs and act all like "I DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE BANNED WAAHHHHH" and they were toxic as hell in the logs xD
> [{quoted}](name=ThatShinyPiplup,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:32:56.175+0000) > > I always love how people post their ban logs and act all like "I DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE BANNED WAAHHHHH" and they were toxic as hell in the logs xD So should l be banned for just being toxic? People should not be banned for things they say but things they do.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >Reality is the problem. {{champion:33}}
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:30:45.418+0000) > > {{champion:33}} That sounded a bit weird.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: i have no argument against any of those but on the other hand when you win while having an asshole on your team who atacks everybody for every single thing they do that he disagrees with, ending the game no longer brings satisfaction for the win or frustration for the loss. Instead it brings peace of mind due to the fact that the guy that bothered you and your team for the past 20-40 minutes is finally silenced. i'm sure you've had a day that was so annoying that when you got home to bed, you were just glad it was over and no longer cared if it was a good day or bad.
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:19:58.895+0000) > > i have no argument against any of those but on the other hand when you win while having an asshole on your team who atacks everybody for every single thing they do that he disagrees with, ending the game no longer brings satisfaction for the win or frustration for the loss. Instead it brings peace of mind due to the fact that the guy that bothered you and your team for the past 20-40 minutes is finally silenced. > > i'm sure you've had a day that was so annoying that when you got home to bed, you were just glad it was over and no longer cared if it was a good day or bad. l did not just disagree with.Leona was feeding for real few times than stoped.As for others they did very badly and l called them for it.Tell me how am l not getting offended anytime someone calls me bad?If l am doing bad l will take the blame, if l am called for no reason l will just ignore.First of all 1 person reported me l am 100% sure of it.And no l don't want anyone to get permaban even those people who say stuff like 'l hope you family dies of cancer' 14 days ban maybe.But not perma.And you logic is that 'Oh well this guy was a bit annoying for 20-40 mins l really hope he gets peramaned forever".It does not make any sense.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: if you're good a bunch of games **before** you cross the line again, that "good behaviour" doesn't act like a shield against consequences for when you mess up again. your arguments simply don't conform with reality.
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000200000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:14:39.400+0000) > > if you're good a bunch of games **before** you cross the line again, that "good behaviour" doesn't act like a shield against consequences for when you mess up again. your arguments simply don't conform with reality. Reality is the problem.If you are the best teammate ever in 30 games.But say anything negative and get reported and thats instant ban.That just makes no sense at all.To be honest after 14 days ban l really wanted to change.l even stopped myself from insulting that 1 leona for real (calling her idiot etc.).l have a theory that the reason riot give bans for being a little toxic is there relationship with Tencent.As china bans any games with even a bit toxic community.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: winning isn't everything what's the point of winning if you're not having fun doing it?
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:01:39.340+0000) > > winning isn't everything > > what's the point of winning if you're not having fun doing it? Wining a game release dopamine in our brain making us feel good.If you did well in the game it will make you feel even better.But in case when you did perfect in the game but still loses because of 1 player that it just makes you frustrated.
rujitra (NA)
: Dude, most people aren't toxic frequently enough to get **a single chat restriction** much less a permanent ban. League would be just fine if you banned people like yourself who are continually toxic even after a final warning.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2019-02-23T23:02:51.572+0000) > > Dude, most people aren't toxic frequently enough to get **a single chat restriction** much less a permanent ban. League would be just fine if you banned people like yourself who are continually toxic even after a final warning. To get chat restriction you need to 1.Saying any trigger word in chat 2.Be reported if that happens 2-3 times you get chat restriction.From then forwards you can get penalty for 1-2 games. This was my first game l was even a bit toxic after 14 days ban.So your word 'continually' and 'final warning' contradict each other
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Erol The Nomad,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T22:53:28.877+0000) > > I will take a loss where nobody flamed over a win where someome spammed the chat with harassment, ff begging, report begging, and skill shaming any day of the week. Really? You would take ranked loss instead of someone calling you bad or useless?
: I meant your in-game log. It's ridiculous.
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-02-23T22:51:00.953+0000) > > I meant your in-game log. It's ridiculous. Yeah l like typing.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Erol The Nomad,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-23T22:45:46.960+0000) > > Yes l sounded like giving up.But in the end l won us a game.
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: You got banned for being toxic You were toxic I see no flaw in this ban
> [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-23T22:26:47.693+0000) > > You got banned for being toxic > You were toxic > > I see no flaw in this ban Problem is that toxic should not be punished with ban.Chat restrictions for short ban at max.How to you justify me getting PERMABAN for being a bit toxic?Permaban means that l lost all of my money that l spent on my account and all hours l put in to it.l just called people bad! That's it! l never said anything like "KyS" or " l hope you die of cancer" and horrible stuff like that.In short l just told people they are bad.Do l deserve worst type of punishment for just that?
Syrile (NA)
: Like.... I disagree with the chat-based ban system a lot. But honestly, even at about 1/5th of the lines you shared, I could tell this was punishable. You spammed, almost non-stop, how bad your team is, spamming to ff, repeatedly asking for reports, making comparison of players and telling them how bad they are, etc. It was not like one or two or three times even. You did not, in frustration say, "I wish I had their support" or "you are awful" no, you really just did not stop at all. Even the constantly spamming to FF is against the rules... And sure, everyone gets frustrated and has probably done something like that (which is part of your reasoning) but you did them all, in one game, nonstop. And likely had a string of this behavior in other games since you feel it is not a problem to do.
> [{quoted}](name=Syrile,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-23T21:42:12.290+0000) > > Like.... I disagree with the chat-based ban system a lot. > But honestly, even at about 1/5th of the lines you shared, I could tell this was punishable. > You spammed, almost non-stop, how bad your team is, spamming to ff, repeatedly asking for reports, making comparison of players and telling them how bad they are, etc. It was not like one or two or three times even. You did not, in frustration say, "I wish I had their support" or "you are awful" no, you really just did not stop at all. Even the constantly spamming to FF is against the rules... And sure, everyone gets frustrated and has probably done something like that (which is part of your reasoning) but you did them all, in one game, nonstop. And likely had a string of this behavior in other games since you feel it is not a problem to do. This is the only game after 14 days ban that l said anything negative.But "I could tell this was punishable" is the problem.As it should not be punishable.If it does not ruin game for anyone(most of the times).If it does not ruin game it should not be a problem.Those 2 people l called bad.And that 1 person who l argued about for a bit, they will just move to the next game like nothing heppend.But l now can't play the game l like just because of that.
Jo0o (NA)
: Sorry dude, our back-and-forth ends here. You're not willing to budge on your opinion on what is or is not acceptable behavior, which I'm clearly not going to change. Riot gave you plenty of warning, and you didn't shape up, and we're in the aftermath. Up to you on how to process that.
> [{quoted}](name=Jo0o,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-23T21:52:53.663+0000) > > Sorry dude, our back-and-forth ends here. You're not willing to budge on your opinion on what is or is not acceptable behavior, which I'm clearly not going to change. Riot gave you plenty of warning, and you didn't shape up, and we're in the aftermath. Up to you on how to process that. Acceptable behavior is subjective as every game has its own "acceptable behavior". But out of all games l played lol is the only who who bans you for saying things as lite as "you are bad"
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >So you would rather have a person in enemy team ruining your ranked game than a person calling you bad or useless once or twice > once or twice ummm... there is no "once or twice" in that log not even remotely close to an actual number >Yeah population is still going up because riots does not ban all toxic player and that was mine point. sorry to break it to you but they do. you're not the first one to come in here and throw a tantrum and you won't be the last >l do not hate rules just because they do not suit me. this thread and your comments so far tell a different story >So looks like system is not working very well. like i said. if you don't like it, you are free to go and play something else when riot bans a player, it's their way of saying "we don't want you in our game. go away!"
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T21:44:58.388+0000) > > ummm... there is no "once or twice" in that log > > not even remotely close to an actual number > If l am not mistaken l said bad or/and useless 3 or 4 times.Don't take 'once or twice' for real. > sorry to break it to you but they do. you're not the first one to come in here and throw a tantrum and you won't be the last > Maybe its a bit overused but its still a got point > this thread and your comments so far tell a different story > How?l think system in general is flawed even if l did not get permaban l would make this thread.l just don't believe people should be banned for thing they said as in most cases it has little to no meaning behind it.Only people who should be banned for saying something are those who say very racist things and verbal abuse someone badly(not just calling them bad or a noob). > like i said. if you don't like it, you are free to go and play something else > > when riot bans a player, it's their way of saying "we don't want you in our game. go away!" That's the problem riot policy is just bad.Riot wants to censure everyone to the point of being unnatural.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >No l can't l like talking to people and exchanging our opinions. >Gothguy665: nice Gothguy665: gnar Gothguy665: help us Gothguy665: omfg Gothguy665: gnar Gothguy665: gnar Gothguy665: heeelo Gothguy665: heeelo Gothguy665: nice we finally lost Gothguy665: why you dont Gothguy665: we could win Gothguy665: best jhin eu Gothguy665: gj Gothguy665: y Gothguy665: just focus mf Gothguy665: carry Gothguy665: if we win l want all honors Gothguy665: ok Gothguy665: lol Gothguy665: gnar dont go alone Gothguy665: gj Gothguy665: all honors Gothguy665: f Gothguy665: def me Gothguy665: pls i don't understand your definition of "exchanging opinions"
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T21:37:58.621+0000) > > Gothguy665: gnar > Gothguy665: help us > Gothguy665: omfg > Gothguy665: gnar > Gothguy665: gnar > Gothguy665: heeelo > Gothguy665: heeelo > Gothguy665: nice we finally lost > Gothguy665: why you dont > Gothguy665: we could win > Gothguy665: best jhin eu > Gothguy665: gj > Gothguy665: y > Gothguy665: just focus mf > Gothguy665: carry > Gothguy665: if we win l want all honors > Gothguy665: ok > Gothguy665: lol > Gothguy665: gnar dont go alone > Gothguy665: gj > Gothguy665: all honors > Gothguy665: f > Gothguy665: def me > Gothguy665: pls > > i don't understand your definition of "exchanging opinions" First of all l thought he meant all of my responding.But even in this context l generally like to exchange opinions.Maybe less in this game but in most yes.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >But people who ruin game for real like hackers,cheaters and those who afk or feed should be only one who get permabanned. tbh if i had you in my game with that log, i'd consider the game more ruined than if a had a hacker. at least hackers dont flood the chat with their drama like you did > +if you ban most people who were at some point toxic in lol there would be not a lot people left. these rules have been in place for a long time and the population of league players is still going up. sorry but no. if you dont like the rules, you're free to leave at any point
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T21:34:35.147+0000) > > tbh if i had you in my game with that log, i'd consider the game more ruined than if a had a hacker. at least hackers dont flood the chat with their drama like you did > > these rules have been in place for a long time and the populations is still going up. sorry but no. > > if you dont like the rules, you're free to leave at any point So you would rather have a person in enemy team ruining your ranked game than a person calling you bad or useless once or twice sorry but l don't see logic in that. Yeah population is still going up because riots does not ban all toxic player and that was mine point.There are many toxic people far far worst than l am that are still playing freely with honor 5. l do not hate rules just because they do not suit me.But because they are objectively bad for the game.They ban people who were even a bit toxic while not banning people who say some horrible stuff.And as far as l am aware lol is still number 1 most toxic game.So looks like system is not working very well.
: Holy Christ on a cracker, you don't stop typing!
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-23T21:30:23.945+0000) > > Holy Christ on a cracker, you don't stop typing! No l can't l like talking to people and exchanging our opinions.
Jo0o (NA)
: 30-50 games aren't that much, and you're acting like insulting your entire team is normal. It's not. You fucked up, multiple times, with multiple warnings and explicit explanations of what would happen if you continued to fuck up.
> [{quoted}](name=Jo0o,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T21:20:37.595+0000) > > 30-50 games aren't that much, and you're acting like insulting your entire team is normal. It's not. You fucked up, multiple times, with multiple warnings and explicit explanations of what would happen if you continued to fuck up. 30-50 games are a lot when you know that l got ban for only 1. l don't think its normal, but l don' think its worthy a permaban.That is the nature of multiplayer games(mostly mobas and fps),people will get mad from time to time.ITS ALL NORMAL!(In multiplayer games not in general).Lol does not want you to say any negative and that is not normal.Forcing people to be positive 100% of the time is unnatural.As l said permaban should not be for those who just act badly in games.In the end they are not ruining almost anything, even if you insult someone, that person will either mute you or just ignore you at move with there life.But people who ruin game for real like hackers,cheaters and those who afk or feed should be only one who get permabanned.+ if you ban most people who were at some point toxic in lol there would be not a lot people left.
Jo0o (NA)
: You're banned not for calling people bad in one game, but for all of your accumulated chat penalties over the course of your League career culminating in this moment.
> [{quoted}](name=Jo0o,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T21:07:08.178+0000) > > You're banned not for calling people bad in one game, but for all of your accumulated chat penalties over the course of your League career culminating in this moment. That is true.But this is the only game after 2 weeks ban that l said anything bad in.l played 30-50 games for sure from when l got 14 days ban. Before this game l never said anything bad.And to get permaban now for just calling people bad is just insane.After getting penalty report count should be reset.By riots logic after getting 2 weeks ban you should 1. stop playing for few months or 2.avoid using chat at all just to make sure you do not say anything that can result in a ban.And let me tell you there are many things even lighter than things l said that can result a ban.
Jo0o (NA)
: You're constantly insulting your team and spamming chat, including harassing them with threats of reporting. This is terrible sportsmanship, and all but guarantees that the team can't engage in good teamwork. If I was your teammate, independent of how I felt about your comments about me specifically, I'd report your ass for going out of your way to tilt our fellow teammates. Any chance we have to come back from a gold deficit flies out the window when somebody like you decides to pop off in chat.
> [{quoted}](name=Jo0o,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-23T21:01:04.592+0000) > > You're constantly insulting your team and spamming chat, including harassing them with threats of reporting. This is terrible sportsmanship, and all but guarantees that the team can't engage in good teamwork. If I was your teammate, independent of how I felt about your comments about me specifically, I'd report your ass for going out of your way to tilt our fellow teammates. Any chance we have to come back from a gold deficit flies out the window when somebody like you decides to pop off in chat. Being banned for things l said.l remember when bans were for cheaters,hackers and people like that.l do not deserve ban for calling people bad in 1 game.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: i didn't get to your excuses. the chatlog was enough for me tyvm ban deserved
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OPgVZxRq,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T20:57:56.026+0000) > > i didn't get to your excuses. the chatlog was enough for me tyvm > > ban deserved Its simple to just say ban deserved.But think of this for a sec.Is calling someone bad few times worth getting your account that you put your tears and money in to banned for just that.You may think l was annoying in that game( l think l was too) but is that a reason for a ban?
Rioter Comments
Xidphel (NA)
: It's likely a case of consistent toxicity over many games.
Its true but idk if he got 10 games or 25 games.Still this game on its own does not deserve chat restriction.
: How did this earn me a chat restriction?
You said nothing chat restriction worthy.But stupid bots that chack chat logs apparently do not agree.
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iVkYOoyO,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-12-21T22:19:45.915+0000) > > It's weird l know Nonono i mean are you really that toxic to do that in 3 days ?
No, that's why l made these posts. This is the list of words that l used: noob ,report this person, idiot(said it before,not in new 25 chat ban), and l said 'f you ' once. That's full list of words l used. Now l don't think that l was toxic that much to deserve 2 chat bans in few days.
: Remember kid. They are ALLOWED to go 0-19 in a 20 minute game.... If you say anything about their obvious trolling, you are the one being banned. LOL That's how this works don't you know?
Lol in nuttshell
: Only posting the 2nd game makes you highly suspicious, i hope you realize that.
Really? As l said it's same thing as with first one,calling someone noob and saying that l will report them,l will link first log tomorrow if you really want.
: Im quit curios though how you got a 10 and 25 chat restriction in 3 days time? We see alot of cases from people who got punisht but not alot of sombody who manage to get 2 punishments in less than 3 days. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
It's weird l know
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iVkYOoyO,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-21T18:10:27.031+0000)From when is noob insult? Since pretty much the inception of the word. It's one thing to call yourself one, or even to call another player you *know* is a new player that (such as "forgive my friend's bad CS: he's a noob and has only been playing for 3 days"), but it's inherently insulting to call someone that. It's not okay to call them a bad player either.
Well that's the problem. Your logic is flawed, only different thing between 'sry my friend is noob' and 'you are noob' is that you are not talking to that person directly.Still, did you even take a look at my argument? When you write definition of noob anywhere on the internet is a person who is inexperienced in a particular sphere or activity, especially computing or the use of the Internet'. Take this for example, you work on the job that can kill you and only very talented people with that job can do it safely. Now if random person tries to join and you tell him 'sorry but you are not good with this' should that be insulting? Did you get my point? Calling someone noob just means you don't think that 1 person is not good enough.It would be different if you say to them 'your are like worst player ever, you are so f***** bad' that is an insult. But simple noob? Not really.
PH45 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iVkYOoyO,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-21T17:05:42.317+0000) > > Constant? l started to 'flame' about 10 min before the end. Also what did l say to deserve it? l said noob few times and is that really a reason to get 25 games chat ban. You don't need to say special words to get punished. The trigger words will trigger harsher bans faster, but constant negative behavior will get you chat restricted. You already received the 10 game chat restriction earlier, why continue the bad behavior when it's clear you'll just get punished if you keep up the act?
> [{quoted}](name=PH45,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iVkYOoyO,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-12-21T17:49:58.974+0000) > > You don't need to say special words to get punished. The trigger words will trigger harsher bans faster, but constant negative behavior will get you chat restricted. > > You already received the 10 game chat restriction earlier, why continue the bad behavior when it's clear you'll just get punished if you keep up the act? l received the 10 game chat restriction for saying stuff like idiot many many times. l had no idea for saying such a stupid thing like noob and report him will get be chat restriction again + sometimes you just can't ignore it and say nothing. l tried as much as possible to not flame that person.But l said noob and 'f you anyways'.That's my main problem with riots report and penalty system. Only thing you need to get penalty is 1 report and to say anything that will offend someone.Noob=penalty, you are not good/you are bad= penalty. You can't just talk nice all of the time its just not natural
: > [{quoted}](name=Gothguy665,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iVkYOoyO,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-21T17:05:42.317+0000)I said noob few times and is that really a reason to get 25 games chat ban. Given that that IS an insult, you recently had a 10-game restriction, and you also told him to "go f himself" and threatened reports, yes.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iVkYOoyO,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-21T17:32:39.635+0000) > > Given that that IS an insult, you recently had a 10-game restriction, and you also told him to "go f himself" and threatened reports, yes. From when is noob insult?If l am not mistaken meaning of noob is 'a person who is inexperienced in a particular sphere or activity, especially computing or the use of the Internet' so saying to someone 'You are bad with this champion' is ok, but saying you are noob kayn is an insult?? Where is the logic in that? l should not say 'go f yourself' it was my bad, still it was most lite way of saying it.l didn't know that saying stuff like 'report him' is against to rules Its riots problem that stuff like 'pls report this person who lost this game on purpose' is against the rules.Still its just thing you hear in every single game by 1 team at least and its really not worth a penalty.
: I notice your log says Game 2. So my question, where are the other log/s?
> [{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iVkYOoyO,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-21T17:42:58.515+0000) > > I notice your log says Game 2. So my question, where are the other log/s? l think it was pointless to link it cuz people will need to scroll down a lot.But in short it was about the same thing just with jungler who didin't want to gank.l said noob few times, but not 'f you' like in first.
Kei143 (NA)
: Did you know that asking for reports counts as harassment? Essentially you are treatening to punish someone's account for not playing up to your standards. Did you also know that 1 report and 9 reports do the same thing? All it does is ask the system to review the game. Just becuase the system reviews it 9 more times, doesn't make it more likely that you'll get punished.
> [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iVkYOoyO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-21T17:16:00.639+0000) > > Did you know that asking for reports counts as harassment? > > Essentially you are treatening to punish someone's account for not playing up to your standards. > > Did you also know that 1 report and 9 reports do the same thing? All it does is ask the system to review the game. Just becuase the system reviews it 9 more times, doesn't make it more likely that you'll get punished. Its not point of 'playing up to my standards' person wanted to make his team lose that's the point
rujitra (NA)
: Constant flaming. How is this undeserved?
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iVkYOoyO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-21T17:01:07.679+0000) > > Constant flaming. > > How is this undeserved? Constant? l started to 'flame' about 10 min before the end. Also what did l say to deserve it? l said noob few times and is that really a reason to get 25 games chat ban.
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Gothguy665

Level 72 (EUNE)
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