: I can't express in words how true this is. I remember how back in season 5, when I played a tank, I could actually tank damage and now I take about 3 Auto's from ADC and a 2 abilities from Midlane, and Toplane and i'm already at 20% of my HP. The only reason why I can see why people would say that it's still possibly the tank meta is because Tanks deal more damage, rather than being able to tank it.
Its funny how we experience the same things differently,i quit during season 5 since i'm an adc main,it was horrible,tank items were dirt cheap while zeals and ie were like 3600 3700,and even so tanks were buffed like mad,i remember feeling completely useless since mid game,especially if fed,the tank would have basically 2 items over you,it felt so hopeless being chased down by a tank with 3k hp and 250 armor while your autos do like 50 damage to him,truly the most horrible league era for me,even with full build you still couldn't kill a tank in less than 25-30 shots,thats literally 20 seconds of pouring damage into him,you know how often it happens for you to be able to deal that damage freely? Never.. i mean ziggs was played bot lane instead of adcs,thats how bad it was
: Female Support
Funny,i say we need a new Male adc since last 2 were female and its the only class besides supports where % wise there's more females to males,and i get down voted to hell for being misogynistic or something,this community is freaking horny teens that watch league hentai
Akrid415 (NA)
: Do ADC's even have to orb walk anymore?
Stop with the adc hysteria please for the love of god
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=00090000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-28T23:46:44.334+0000) > > https://i.gyazo.com/78110f64178fc323bdf37eb55ffb3a11.png > Based on the limited data you provided, it's not replicatable. You still haven't provided the data to replicate the experiment: -Full runes. Game time if relevant. -Combo used. Order, auto attacks, etc. -Active buffs not seen on screen, if any. We have no way of knowing if you just turned off the cooldown timers, unless you give specifics.
> [{quoted}](name=Risen29,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=000900000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-29T02:02:55.947+0000) > > Based on the limited data you provided, it's not replicatable. > > You still haven't provided the data to replicate the experiment: > -Full runes. Game time if relevant. > -Combo used. Order, auto attacks, etc. > -Active buffs not seen on screen, if any. > > We have no way of knowing if you just turned off the cooldown timers, unless you give specifics. 1. Stop trolling 2. Get a life 3. Stop trying to pose as an intellectual 4. Stop talking like this is a professional scientific debate 5. Stop saying Logical Fallacy 6. Jesus man you must be a lonely neckbeard 7. Get out of silver and then come back 8. How the fk do you ask me what combo did i do,the only combo RQEWQ 9. No buffs present,if you dont believe me take electrocute go into the practice tool,it takes you as much time as writing this comment,and then test it out yourself 10. Stop replying to me,you're literally just spamming Logical Fallacy and need more proof of me doing 3.6k damage with rengar than you need to prove a fukin murder,you are really the most despicable human being i think i've ever had the misfortune of coming across on the internet,i literally don't think there's a bigger loser than you out there in this world
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vIvEW1LK,comment-id=000d0001000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2018-04-28T23:44:53.463+0000) > > How TF did you disprove it,please don't make me download some free video recording software just so i can film myself like a moron jumping on a target dummy with Rengar The post you are quoting had nothing to do with your post. However, on the subject; you can prove your test with something as simple as providing the build/runes/combo so it can be tested. Otherwise it is meaningless and proves nothing, because there are many ways to doctor the results in ways that don't represent reality. The fact that you continually refuse to do so is telling.
https://i.gyazo.com/2820eb6eca453d0f337b3317ece8a122.png
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vIvEW1LK,comment-id=000d0001000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2018-04-28T23:44:53.463+0000) > > How TF did you disprove it,please don't make me download some free video recording software just so i can film myself like a moron jumping on a target dummy with Rengar The post you are quoting had nothing to do with your post. However, on the subject; you can prove your test with something as simple as providing the build/runes/combo so it can be tested. Otherwise it is meaningless and proves nothing, because there are many ways to doctor the results in ways that don't represent reality. The fact that you continually refuse to do so is telling.
This is literally a picture of me showing you exactly what you want,and you still claim how those results could be photoshoped and that i REFUSE to show you what was my build and that its TELLING ,ARE YOU FKING KIDDING ME? Thats it,this is my last reply you're obviously a deeply disturbed individual https://i.gyazo.com/2820eb6eca453d0f337b3317ece8a122.png
: Yeah, controlled tests are totally useless! Fuck anyone with an engineering degree that designed and build my iphone and thinks otherwise.
> [{quoted}](name=sixdogman,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-28T18:14:53.004+0000) > > Yeah, controlled tests are totally useless! Fuck anyone with an engineering degree that designed and build my iphone and thinks otherwise. Well just go read some comments on that post about ADCs being Assassins and you'll realize how sometimes "Controlled Tests" can offer data which doesn't really reflect the reality. For example the author of that post got something like 1.8k dps with Guinsoo Jinx and argues that ADCs do a better job of assassinating than assassins,and he believes it 100%,he even argues with me that Rengar can't kill Cait in a 1v1 cause Cait does 1.4k dps on his test. See that's the problem,when you take it to the extreme and dont account for the fact that that dps can only be achieved with: - Six items - Fully stacked Guinsoo (which obviously requires 6 attacks beforehand) - Lethal Tempo proc (which means that dps is achievable only in that time frame when its active) - Target has to have 100 armor or less (Target dummy) - You aren't interrupted,or the target doesn't flash/jump/dash/run away or just cc you or even worse kill you I'm sure there's a lot more conditions to be made before getting this dps but this kinda shows you how theory doesn't always play out in practice,since even though in theory you can get that dps,in practice an ADC can't consistently get that DPS,not to mention they usually lack the ability to get to the backline,assassinate and then get out,nor can they two shot someone with 2 items mid game,but you know who can? Assassins. Yomuus and Duskblade Zed can kill you 100-0 with his full combo in a few seconds,not only that he can use his W and R to quickly get to you kill you and then get away,something a 2 item Cait cant really do
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-04-28T22:05:54.684+0000) > > Just stop it with the LOGICAL FALLACY I know you like being able to just assert something is true and not have to provide any reasoned argumentation about why it's true, but that's not how a real intellectual debate/discussion works. You'll just be running around in circles if all you want to do is spout off your opinion without ever having to justify why you think that opinion is true. >if every ADC could do 1.8k DPS as you said then no one would play anything but the adc,just go in the damn game you stupid silver,pick Jinx,show me a video of you TWO SHOTTING a 3.6k TANK and then i'll say aight,youre right. The test results don't lie, against a 100 base armor dummy. If that tank never built any bonus armor (because they may have roughly 100 base armor) then you would kill them in a couple seconds if fully stacked. But tanks build armor, which is why adcs rarely kill them that fast. This is why your analytical abilities are poor. You should have been able to think of that on your own.
> [{quoted}](name=Risen29,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-04-28T22:45:09.070+0000) > > I know you like being able to just assert something is true and not have to provide any reasoned argumentation about why it's true, but that's not how a real intellectual debate/discussion works. > > You'll just be running around in circles if all you want to do is spout off your opinion without ever having to justify why you think that opinion is true. > > The test results don't lie, against a 100 base armor dummy. If that tank never built any bonus armor (because they may have roughly 100 base armor) then you would kill them in a couple seconds if fully stacked. > But tanks build armor, which is why adcs rarely kill them that fast. This is why your analytical abilities are poor. You should have been able to think of that on your own. -I've been telling you this entire time that people actually build armor and you cant achieve that dps in a real game -Also you've literally said so many untrue things without giving any proof,while also disputing my proof as PHOTOSHOP or just saying im flat out wrong (for example you still claim Rengar can't do his full combo in less then a second,you claim he needs 3 seconds,literally anyone that has played Rengar knows this isn't true) you contradict yourself trying to look like someone capable of an intellectual debate and posing as an intellectual by using the same buzzword * LOGICAL FALLACY * in your every reply hoping someone will think you're right and smart even though you've been wrong in just about everything and i've proved you wrong in just about everything yet you still go on and on and on.
saltran (EUW)
: No, if a full build Jinx in practice tool is able to do a huge dps it means that she's better than assasins and I don't need more proves or argues to claim it. /s
> [{quoted}](name=saltran,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-28T18:07:49.354+0000) > > No, if a full build Jinx in practice tool is able to do a huge dps it means that she's better than assasins and I don't need more proves or argues to claim it. > > /s Glad you know what inspired my post...that guy is still trying to convince me Rengar can't win a 1v1 vs Cait. Like i said these people seem to not even play the game
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vIvEW1LK,comment-id=000d000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-28T22:09:02.172+0000) > > he's still trying to prove me wrong saying this picture proves me wrong and somehow reveals he's right and that Rengar can't do his full combo in 1 sec and he can't deal 3k damage with it... No, I was mistaken about the DPS. I got it mixed up with some other numbers I was looking at, so I retract that. However, your test still doesn't mean anything because you refuse to provide the circumstances of the test. It could be a photoshopped picture for all we know if you aren't willing to tell us what you do so it can be replicated and verified. I'm not saying you did photoshop it, I'm just pointing out why a picture by itself has no analytical value if you aren't willing to reveal the circumstances behind it.
Are you mad,do you think i'd care to download the fkin photoshop,and then alter the numbers just to try to reason with a madmen online? Like literally can't you just go in for yourself and see it i'm literally done arguing https://gyazo.com/78110f64178fc323bdf37eb55ffb3a11 You're the most ignorant,lying,dishonest,pseudo-intellectual,biased bullshitter i have ever seen,i give up.
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=000900000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-28T22:45:54.049+0000) > > I didnt use Botrk,nor full crit, Until you list what you did use, your test doesn't mean anything. >but i still cant believe you're going to argue,somehow you getting 1.8k dps with guinsoo and no boots on jinx Another example of how you have bad reading comprehension. I already said jinx had attack speed boots in the test. And I also already gave examples of numbers without guinsoos. The test never depended on guinsoos to establish the point. The ADC's damage is still comparable to Talon's at the 2 second mark, with or without guinsoos. Guinsoos just makes the disparity more absurd, and you do face plenty of adcs who build it. >,but your test reflects Jinx true damage,even though the target dummy is 100 armor,not 400 like a full tank,you're literally a flat earther,but for League The purpose of the test was never to establish the damage they do against tanks. That is completely irrelevant. Again, you show your lack of reading comprehension and analytical understanding. The purpose of the test was to demonstrate why assassins feel like ADC's have taken over their role, able to output about as much damage as they can, about as fast as they can, to the point where whatever marginal advantage they have starts to feel not worth all they are giving up in sustained damage. Especially when it's so easy for the adc to survive your burst in a teamfight setting.
> [{quoted}](name=Risen29,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=0009000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-28T22:51:15.817+0000) > > Until you list what you did use, your test doesn't mean anything. > > Another example of how you have bad reading comprehension. I already said jinx had attack speed boots in the test. > > And I also already gave examples of numbers without guinsoos. The test never depended on guinsoos to establish the point. > The ADC's damage is still comparable to Talon's at the 2 second mark, with or without guinsoos. Guinsoos just makes the disparity more absurd, and you do face plenty of adcs who build it. > > The purpose of the test was never to establish the damage they do against tanks. > That is completely irrelevant. > Again, you show your lack of reading comprehension and analytical understanding. > > The purpose of the test was to demonstrate why assassins feel like ADC's have taken over their role, able to output about as much damage as they can, about as fast as they can, to the point where whatever marginal advantage they have starts to feel not worth all they are giving up in sustained damage. Especially when it's so easy for the adc to survive your burst in a teamfight setting. If you think Assassins can be replaced with ADC i dare you play 10 ranked games with Jinx mid in a row,and lets see how you do vs zed https://i.gyazo.com/78110f64178fc323bdf37eb55ffb3a11.png Also this is another test,i'm not sure what more do you want,any sane person can see you're insane,and anyone not lazy and dishonest as you can go into the practice tool and try this out
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vIvEW1LK,comment-id=000d00010000000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-28T21:50:57.337+0000) > > THIS. > Thank you so much for some solid, indisputable evidence. > {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} I just disproved it. So, next time, try to think for yourself. Don't just believe something just because they throw up some numbers and they say it supports what you want to be true.
How TF did you disprove it,please don't make me download some free video recording software just so i can film myself like a moron jumping on a target dummy with Rengar
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-04-28T22:05:54.684+0000) > > Just stop it with the LOGICAL FALLACY I know you like being able to just assert something is true and not have to provide any reasoned argumentation about why it's true, but that's not how a real intellectual debate/discussion works. You'll just be running around in circles if all you want to do is spout off your opinion without ever having to justify why you think that opinion is true. >if every ADC could do 1.8k DPS as you said then no one would play anything but the adc,just go in the damn game you stupid silver,pick Jinx,show me a video of you TWO SHOTTING a 3.6k TANK and then i'll say aight,youre right. The test results don't lie, against a 100 base armor dummy. If that tank never built any bonus armor (because they may have roughly 100 base armor) then you would kill them in a couple seconds if fully stacked. But tanks build armor, which is why adcs rarely kill them that fast. This is why your analytical abilities are poor. You should have been able to think of that on your own.
> [{quoted}](name=Risen29,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-04-28T22:45:09.070+0000) > > I know you like being able to just assert something is true and not have to provide any reasoned argumentation about why it's true, but that's not how a real intellectual debate/discussion works. > > You'll just be running around in circles if all you want to do is spout off your opinion without ever having to justify why you think that opinion is true. > > The test results don't lie, against a 100 base armor dummy. If that tank never built any bonus armor (because they may have roughly 100 base armor) then you would kill them in a couple seconds if fully stacked. > But tanks build armor, which is why adcs rarely kill them that fast. This is why your analytical abilities are poor. You should have been able to think of that on your own. Also please just please go play 3 games with Jinx,i want to see that fabled 1.8k DPS in a real live game
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=0009000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-28T22:03:46.275+0000) > > If you're being a complete moron and measuring the time it takes for him to stealth up,which is around 1 sec,then yes his whole combo takes 2 seconds,but im not sure how low IQ you are to think i proved myself wrong with my test when the test shows a picture of a 4.6k DPS Rengar,meaning 3.6k damage was done in less then a second,how does that prove anything except the fact that you're literally trolling As I already pointed out, your test doesn't mean anything if you aren't willing to disclose the build/runes/what you did/etc. I can doctor up his numbers with a full crit and botrk build and other %health stuff against the practice dummy, but that isn't a realistic buildpath for rengar to pursue or really reflect damage against another player.
> [{quoted}](name=Risen29,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=00090000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-28T22:37:48.345+0000) > > As I already pointed out, your test doesn't mean anything if you aren't willing to disclose the build/runes/what you did/etc. > > I can doctor up his numbers with a full crit and botrk build and other %health stuff against the practice dummy, but that isn't a realistic buildpath for rengar to pursue or really reflect damage against another player. I didnt use Botrk,nor full crit,but i still cant believe you're going to argue,somehow you getting 1.8k dps with guinsoo and no boots on jinx and not going fleet footwork that helps her survive and sustain is a practical build that happens obviously every game (in your demented head) but when i prove you wrong then it doesn't count cause getting IE on Rengar isn't practical,also how come my test doesn't reflect Rengar's damage,but your test reflects Jinx true damage,even though the target dummy is 100 armor,not 400 like a full tank,you're literally a flat earther,but for League
: He's in too deep at this point. I don't blame him, I was them same when I was 12.
: THIS. Thank you so much for some solid, indisputable evidence. {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
He doesn't give up,he's still trying to prove me wrong saying this picture proves me wrong and somehow reveals he's right and that Rengar can't do his full combo in 1 sec and he can't deal 3k damage with it...i mean this guy is basically a flat earther but in league.
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-28T16:13:22.710+0000) > > It's like arguing a boxer is the best in the world cause he can hit a bag really really hard. > > Real gameplay is completely different,its like some of this people are just theory crafting and not even playing the game Only if you're not intelligent enough to factor in the differences when doing the testing, as you don't seem to be from the last thread. Considering that the average champion has 80-100 base armor at level 18, the practice dummy is a suitable testing ground for AD based damage rates that don't involve %health or scale based off the enemy having higher health - which was the case in that thread. As I already challenged you in the last thread: use math or logic to demonstrate why the test wouldn't be valid in a game setting. Just saying it would not be valid, just because it's a practice tool, doesn't by itself prove anything. You're committing the logical fallacy of thinking that just because you assert something that it is established to be true, without having to actually prove why it's true. The very thing you're doing again by creating this thread.
> [{quoted}](name=Risen29,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-04-28T21:48:20.611+0000) > > Only if you're not intelligent enough to factor in the differences when doing the testing, as you don't seem to be from the last thread. > > Considering that the average champion has 80-100 base armor at level 18, the practice dummy is a suitable testing ground for AD based damage rates that don't involve %health or scale based off the enemy having higher health - which was the case in that thread. > > As I already challenged you in the last thread: use math or logic to demonstrate why the test wouldn't be valid in a game setting. Just saying it would not be valid, just because it's a practice tool, doesn't by itself prove anything. You're committing the logical fallacy of thinking that just because you assert something that it is established to be true, without having to actually prove why it's true. The very thing you're doing again by creating this thread. Just stop it with the LOGICAL FALLACY bullshit you pseudo-intellectual %%%%,if every ADC could do 1.8k DPS as you said then no one would play anything but the adc,just go in the damn game you stupid silver,pick Jinx,show me a video of you TWO SHOTTING a 3.6k TANK and then i'll say aight,youre right.
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-04-28T20:36:32.210+0000) > > Can you believe he just said Rengar cant win in a straight up fight vs Cait, I never said that. And this isn't the first time you've either failed reading comprehension or lied. You were defeated in the last thread, unable to logically support our arguments, so you ran away to create another thread to whine about it. >and he needs at least 3 seconds to get his full combo in... It actually takes 2-3 seconds to cycle through four abilities and auto attack after coming out of ultimate stealth. it's a rough estimate, I didn't get out a stopwatch. Ironic, that you were trying to use the test dummy to prove something in game. The very thing you're whining about in this thread. Maybe you're just salty because it didn't work out the way you wanted it to.
If you're being a complete moron and measuring the time it takes for him to stealth up,which is around 1 sec,then yes his whole combo takes 2 seconds,but im not sure how low IQ you are to think i proved myself wrong with my test when the test shows a picture of a 4.6k DPS Rengar,meaning 3.6k damage was done in less then a second,how does that prove anything except the fact that you're literally trolling
: But he had a Jinx with rageblade doing 1800 dps with {{item:3124}} and full build while his Talon did no damage )))))::::;;;;;;;;;;
> [{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hkKpEl23,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-04-28T20:32:48.604+0000) > > But he had a Jinx with rageblade doing 1800 dps with {{item:3124}} and full build while his Talon did no damage )))))::::;;;;;;;;;; Can you believe he just said Rengar cant win in a straight up fight vs Cait,and he needs at least 3 seconds to get his full combo in...i mean its like they're not even playing the game... https://gyazo.com/3a06c63444c06ae53515092913aa1409 you literally can't make this shit up,but he can lol
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vIvEW1LK,comment-id=000d00010000,timestamp=2018-04-28T19:02:08.546+0000) > > Then you don't get 1800 dps,plus no one builds Guinsoo on Jinx or Cait,plus you have to consider that that is literally the purpose of an ADC,to deal the most damage on your team late game,im not sure what's the point of this post,you proved adc deal most damage with 6 items? I already addressed and shot down those two points in previous posts. Read the thread before responding. > ADCs can't do stuff assassins can do,and that's go in kill a Target instantly and get out, No, they can't. I've already explained why. You can read the thread to find the answers in previous posts. >like i said i don't care if Cait can do 10k dps,she can't hit the back line as well as Rengar or Kha or Zed can, Getting to the backline doesn't mean anything if you can't kill the carry before you die. >a full build 1.8k dps cait still loses in a 1v1 vs Rengar,cause rengar only needs 1 second to deal 3k damage and he gets to do it first Mathematically you're an idiot for even trying to suggest that. It takes 3 seconds for Rengar to get off his burst combo, not 1. And you're not going to reach 3k damage without multiple auto attacks added on after his combo. Caitlyn will do more damage than Rengar will in those 3 seconds. Not only were you too lazy to read the thread, you were too lazy to even figure out how long it takes for Rengar to cycle through his damage rotation. Rengar has no hope of winning a strait up fight like this unless he is able to get a lot of free shots off before she returns fire.
If im a mathematically an idiot,then you're an idiot in every other possible regard and aspect in life,if you really think cait has any chance vs rengar in a 1v1 with his ult up,also how do you call me lazy when you say Rengar cant get his burst off in 1 combo,it took me 15 seconds to get into the practice tool with Rengar and prove you wrong https://i.gyazo.com/0dbd4a6073c2a19b5dc92f6288cbe914.png AND THIS IS WITHOUT HIS BONETOOTH NECKLACE BONUS I REPEAT ITS WITHOUT HIS BONUS THAT GIVES HIM 300 FREE DAMAGE 4627 DPS LITERALLY PROVES YOU'RE WRONG IN SAYING HE CAN'T GET HIS COMBO OFF IN LESS THAN 3 SECONDS,ANYONE THAT PLAYED THE GAME KNOWS RENGAR CAN DO HIS FULL COMBO IN LESS THAN ONE SECOND ITS LIKE YOU'RE LITERALLY TRYING TO LIE YOUR WAY INTO WINNING THE ARGUMENT JESUS
: > [{quoted}](name=Risen29,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vIvEW1LK,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-27T19:39:02.176+0000) > > Full build Caitlyn (I specifically picked her because she has no special attack speed scaling which would bump the numbers up even more. She's your basic vanilla adc). > 1200 DPS to practice dummy. > 1450 DPS with rageblade instead of another zeal item. > That's 2400-2900 damage in two seconds. > > in contrast, Jinx obliterates targets with 1850 DPS with rageblade and her passive stacked up. > 3300 damage in two seconds. > > Talon: > 2200 damage with W/Q/AA combo. But it takes at least 2 seconds, maybe a bit more, to execute as you have to wait for the W return before you jump in. > 2700 if electrocute is up. > You can bump that up maybe around 3500-3700 if you get both hits of your W and R in, but this also still takes over 2 seconds. > If you use both your W and R followed up by your Q and auto attack, you might have 3000 damage and only have to wait one second. > > EDIT: I forgot that the bleed effect takes 2 seconds after the combo is executed to even fully apply the damage. That significantly lowers Talon's 1 and 2 seconds burst damage potential, spreading it out over 3-4 seconds. > > So the ADC outputs equivalent burst damage most of the time, but also does it as sustained damage. > And the ADC does that with only one lethality item, whereas Talon had the full lethality build plus black cleaver. > > Keep in mind during all this that the ADC is likely lifestealing the entire time. Your initial hits in the first second will be wiped out by their lifestealing in their first second of attacks, which can make it impossible to execute a full burst combo against them unless they are slow in responding. > > If they have even a minor amount of peel from their team then it's all over. I mean even without the practice tool, all of this is clearly evident in solo q as well. You can clearly see it happen every game that reaches 30 mins. Xayah auto attacks for 3.0 AD during her W if she crits, at extremely fast speeds. 3.0 AD is equivalent to ENTIRE kits of some assassins ,its fucking comical really. Then ofc she presses E which pops up god knows what kind of numbers on her screen. Kai'sa same deal you press Q (not aimed nor targeted) and you deal, what was it like 440+1.5 or some shit? Just in time before you die to her passive. Caitlyn can headshot , into EQ , headshot #2 (if E lands) for enough damage to 100-0 a squishy once she has her items. More examples exist (draven, MF auto Q R) but no point in preaching it , people who are delusional will stay delusional and people who see it happening infront of them will stay observant.
Except Zed can use W and then R to cover an entire screen,QE+Auto,proc duskblade,ignite you and then go back to his starting R which is now a full screen away from the action,if you're so observant then you may have observed that Caitlyn,even though she has 600 range,isn't really ideally suited to chase down a target,or go into the middle of a teamfight, E on someone,kill him and then go out. If you're observant then you'd realize a lot of assassins have over 50% win rate,Talon has something like a 52 % winrate in diamond and masters,if the people that play the game the best,play assassins,and win,then i'm sure that they serve a purpose,which me and 99% of the game players can obviously see,but you so observant,obviously cant, since you think Xayah is better suited to assassinate someone than Zed or Rengar
: > If you go 6 damage items + Lethal Tempo you have no lifesteal {{item:3812}} {{item:3072}} though?
Then you don't get 1800 dps,plus no one builds Guinsoo on Jinx or Cait,plus you have to consider that that is literally the purpose of an ADC,to deal the most damage on your team late game,im not sure what's the point of this post,you proved adc deal most damage with 6 items? Did you start playing league yesterday? ADCs can't do stuff assassins can do,and that's go in kill a Target instantly and get out,like i said i don't care if Cait can do 10k dps,she can't hit the back line as well as Rengar or Kha or Zed can,a full build 1.8k dps cait still loses in a 1v1 vs Rengar,cause rengar only needs 1 second to deal 3k damage and he gets to do it first
: I was named [Adolf Hitler](https://imgur.com/a/xdAEaOZ) . I didn't get banned or warned they just gave me a free name change.
haha nice new name,Desert Fox
Rioter Comments
Risen29 (NA)
: Practice tool proving ADCs are the new assassins
TFW he probably used botrk or didn't even buy boots just to get 6 damage items and probably used lethal tempo to somehow prove adcs are busted vs a 100 armor target,not to mention Shiv and RFC give a burst of damage so if you hit the target dummy 5-6 times you can get some big numbers but then they go down,also: 1. No one builds Rageblade on Cait or Jinx 2. No one will have 6 items untill very late into the game 3. People wont sell their boots to get 3 zeal items,usually at least 4. If you go 6 damage items + Lethal Tempo you have no lifesteal 5. Practice tool =/= real game 6. No matter how much DPS Jinx has she still can't hit the back line if the enemy is grouped,if she tries she dies,if Talon/Kha/Zed see an opening,they can literally flash and instakill the enemy carry and then probably get away with it,no ADC can flash into 5 people do 2k dmg in an instant and get out alive 7. ADC is very reliant on their team to be able to do damage,i don't care if Jinx can do 9k dps if you leave her alone or manage to cut her off from her team she dies to any enemy Diver,Assassin,Juggernaut,Slayer etc. 8. DPS on a Practice tool doesn't prove anything,i can get 1.5k DPS with Cassiopea,if i stay in the practice tool for 40 minutes i can get Veigar R to do 10 k damage,this posts feel like people trying to get some attention,or up votes or some sort of validation.
: Kai'Sa isn't an ADC caster though. She's an auto-attack ADC. Her passive - stacks on autos. Her W? Stacks passives so she can kill you faster with her autos and passive. Her E? Makes her move and then auto faster. Her R? Fires her into a target with passive stacks so she can stack more stacks and kill them. Her Q is the only ability in her kit that doesn't directly contribute to her needing to auto-attack, so this means she is NOT a caster ADC. Ezreal, Miss Fortune, Corki, and Varus are caster ADCs because they rely mostly on their abilities to deal the bulk of their damage. Kai'Sa does not. She relies mostly on auto-attacking enemies and triggering her passive to deal the bulk of her damage.
You haven't even read my post haven't you? Is there a definition somewhere of a caster adc where it states that 101% of his damage comes from his abilities? I'm literally talking about how champs like Vayne or Twitch deal almost no damage that's not auto attacking,Kai Sa can go full AP and deal 1k damage with her W,that's what i mean by having caster ADs,Marksmen that actually have some ability damage that's not a filler spell or like Jinx W,you use that spell to sometimes poke or slow someone down,its not really crucial to your gameplay,while Kai Sa W really does benefit you a lot,it does a lot of damage,it stacks plasma,it can be a snipe that enables your R etc,her Q and W offer some damage and something to play with even early game when you still don't have a lot of AS,meanwhile Vayne feels shit to play before you get 3 items in cause her entire kit revolves around you having AS and Crit. Also you say Varus is a caster cause he relies mostly on his abilities yet Kai Sa isn't cause last time i checked 90% of Varus damage comes from his AAs and proccing his W passive damage with his abilities,you know who also does a lot of AA damage and can proc passive damage with her abilities,Kai Sa,so why is he a caster and she isn't? Cause his passive in on his W and her passive is well passive? No logic,jesus christ,i dont want to rank shame but why is it always a bronze that tries to spew out some knowledge like he's the one that made the game.
saltran (EUW)
: What? Tabis was nerfed because adcs were abusing it and I could buy it to shut down any ad assasin/diver. It was buffed the dmg that prevents from aa (which is a nerf to adcs) and nerfed in the flat ad so it's worse to buy it in adcs. Your coment can't be more wrong.
and yet it has 3 up votes,this tells you a lot about this community and mob mentality,yes its all an adc conspiracy
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: Wait, you mean to tell me that a Q-AA-E from Viktor at level 5 with get outtraded by a couple Jinx autos, somehow?
Its incredible how blind the circlejerk community is,its like they're not even playing the game,they tell themselves lies and happily accept them as facts,its crazy to say that Mages cant win vs ADCs until really late in the game when they hit most of their spells,a lvl 6 Veigar can 100-0 any ADC with his combo,most mages at lvl 7-8 can chunk an adc for 50% of his hp with two spells,,i mean all Lux has to do is land her Q to guarantee the rest of her combo will not miss,at lvl 7 her full combo + ignite + 2 autos can easily kill any adc
Abarn279 (NA)
: For the most part I agree, but I actually think Jinx has one of the best ADC kits in the entire game. Abilities don't have to be crazy new and have tons of mechanics and what not - her kit is fluid as HELL and each ability contributes heavily to her pattern in different ways.
Not saying she's not fun to play,especially late game,i played her a ton and really like her actually,but again i really don't like to play an ADC that has no burst or escape,and that's a huge part of when i say i like that adcs feel more like ad casters,they actually get some ability damage,my all time favorite champ was Graves,i dont think i even like adcs as much as i liked Graves but he was the perfect example of a good marksmen for me, Q and R could chunk someone for 70% of their HP if fed,you never felt so useless when someone ganked you or got in your face.
Shukr4n (EUW)
: i prefer when adc got to dps to do damage and skills are mostly buffs or movement skills. NO , i hate tristana. vayne and lucian are maybe the ones i like mostly to my preferences
Except Vayne and Lucian are those complete opposites i'm talking about, Lucian has a lot of ability damage and has to use them to get the most of his DPS,he isn't reliant on attack speed or crit early game to start dishing out damage,lvl 6 Lucian can kill you with E,AA,Q,AA + R, and he feels fluid and fun to play before he even finishes an Item,on the other hand,a lvl 6 Vayne only gets +20 damage and stealth on her tumble,her Q and W offer some damage but W again is reliant on AS and Q is just a boosted auto attack,also her R is only becomes effective when you get,you guessed it,attack speed and crit,so until you get a few items in she's really weak and not as fun to play
Rioter Comments
HarrowR (EUNE)
: Unpopular opinion: Vayne feels weak af
I love how i get down voted even though everyone in the comments agrees she's weak compared to some other picks,the hate for Vayne is real
: Honestly? I agree. There's not really much of a reason to even pick her when {{champion:145}} exists and is basically just a better version of her. That AD nerf (combined with the AS nerfs) at the same times as the nerfs to the runes and item (Fleet Footwork and {{item:3308}} in particular) that, combined, were making her so strong was like a massive kick in the balls. There's not really a good reason to pick Vayne when her most similar counterparts in {{champion:29}} and {{champion:145}} just do her job better.
I have a love-hate relationship with Vayne,i love how strong she gets with a few items,i hate how weak she feels early or when losing + she has literally no ways to deal damage outside auto attacking,which means she's purely item dependant,unlike lets say Kai sa or Jhin,who even when behind can pop some abilities here and there to get some damage in,an assist,or even a kill. Like you said Kai Sa does everything Vayne does but better,she even has loads of burst with QW+Passive and is a late game AA monster comparable to Vayne
Rioter Comments
: Assassins shouldn't be able to just 1v2 freely. Stop asking for it.
I think what most people don't consider is how people scale in this game,every level they get more hp,armor,mr plus items. An assassins job gets harder to pull off late game when targets get more tanky and everyone is grouping + supp gets more items etc. All that being said assassins can still carry,and i think its very frustrating for the other side when an assassin starts to hard carry,i literally just won a game 5v4,my adc left while she was still lvl 4,i was Rengar got a few kills,mobi boots,yomuus duskblade and i was camping the enemy Soraka and Jhin the entire game,for most of the mid game i could one shot one and then kill the other or run away,but later it was harder since soraka had more power to protect him,and its reasonable,i just had to wait for my team to start a team fight for soraka to use her silence and heal and voila i go to murder town again. Some people don't seem to understand that every class has to have some strategy,i think assassin mains especially don't understand that,my best friend mains Talon,he's silver,and he plays literally by chasing down people all game,if he gets ahead then great,he ends up having 20/3 or something,if he gets behind he just goes into 1v2 or 1v3 trying to kill one guy and usually dies complaining this game is busted and riot cant balance it out.
2INS4NE (EUW)
: Ryze is a hard counter against ekko. He should not have won against you.
It was like 4 am and i came back from drinking,i'm not amazed he won,im amazed that he could burst for 3k dmg without his ult,also this is not rock paper scissors,no matter how hard of a counter you are to someone he can still roam,get fed,and stat check you
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U6AmXXU2,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T01:48:29.346+0000) > > Like i care what you or some guy on reddit said,youre literally silver,circle jerking about anything that isn't your own class that you main. I play mid,jg and adc,so i don't really care for any of who's stronger,i see how the game is My main acc is peaked at p1 70 or so lp in s7 until i stopped giving a shit. Also this account is Gold 4 last time I checked LOL? The G3 guy saying ''LUL SILVER'' to a g4 account, good meme. And why is the EUNE guy trying to tell me that I'm a bad player? And why the fuck are you lying? The only thing you played in ranked in S7 was ADC LOL!
http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=H%C3%A0rrowR Diamond on EUW. Yes i main adcs,but last few months i've been playing mid/jg,also i stopped playing ranked years ago literally,im gold cause it put me there from plat
: I would do anything to play the old graves
For people saying he's a Lucian clone,i wont even bother with saying he came out first,but the things that i love about Graves that Lucian doesn't have,and also makes him unique First off,his story and aesthetic,he's an Outlaw,a wild west type of character with amazing voice acting and a very good look,you're playing basically one of the most wanted criminals on runeterra. -His gameplay style was actually better suited for close range combat than Lucian,i really liked his passive more back in the day,it gave him MR and Armor the longer he was in combat,this was reworked into his E,and then they gutted the spell,removed MR and increased the number of stacks it takes to get to max armor bonuses. His Q is way more fun to use,its literally get in your face and explode it type of spell,that could be used more easily as a wave clear ability than Luc Q His W is 20x more usefull than Lucian W that do the same damage,except this slows and can confuse the crap out of the enemy when they get blinded,visually its much more creative how it confines your visible area on your screen,compared to Luc W which is just a bit damage and a mark that gives him some MS His E,the ability that made him very similar to Lucian,again feels better to use cause it also gave an AS buff,i feel like its a much more useful spell for team fighting and tank busting than Luc passive and finally his R,one of mine most favorite abilities in the game,it just felt so awesome to blow someone up,you could feel the force behind that giant round,someone got in your face Q auto auto and blow them the fk away Not to mention the thing i dislike the most about Lucian R is that late game you actually lose out on the DPS if you use it,its completely useless after you get 3 items,in a team fight a tank will block it or people will just scatter around and even if they don't you still do more damage with your Autos and passive. While Graves ult looked better it was also instant,so even in a late game team fight you could use it as a panic boost to your DPS,or if you find an opening you can use it to hit and even take out someone low in the back line
: I would do anything to play the old graves
This is like the 5th post of this kind in the last month,mine included. Can riot do us all a favor and revert him,i mean its obviously been a huge flop,just like LB rework,no one is playing Graves,like 1 in 30 games i see Graves. Also i made a post about him,here it is https://boards.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/AAhQTGrf-can-graves-get-an-option-to-switch-to-slugs
: Anyone else feel Ekko is sleeper strong and/or overtuned?
I didnt see Ekko for a long time in game,started playing Ryze mid,played around 30 or so games,got cocky since i felt i couldn't lose mid after i got the hang of his combos,until yesterday,i got Ekko mid,his account name even said Ekko. He got fed fast,like you said,spam Q,clear an entire wave,super safe with his ult,and some good ganks by his jungler and i was behind and he started roaming,10 minutes later i get one shotted through ROA + Seraphs Embrace,esentially 3k damage in QE and passive proc. He literally could literally just one shot anyone on my team with no risk,if he gets low he just ults,and chills out for 40 sec,or just wait for soemone to get low or land his W.
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U6AmXXU2,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-04-25T10:45:42.794+0000) > > What kind of bad players are people complaining about adcs that can't kill the squishiest member of the enemy team? > Stupid argument is stupid,if it were that easy no assassin would ever get played Oh yeah ADCs in 2018 are so squishy. Dont mind the fact that 1/5 your games has a Janna in it that gives the ADC 700 health np. Or the fact that there are a billion knockups and knockbacks in the game. Seriously, if youre playing against a fed assassin regardless of who it is YOU SHOULD GROUP WITH YOUR TEAM! Also Leblancs Q+R doesnt chunk anymore as hard as it used to. If you're playing mid just play SAFE! She is a LANEBULLY! She doesn't do anything after that! Like some guy in reddit said ''the high risk high reward champs need to have "counterplay" because there is counterplay in playing against a Galio or a Anivia or a Ryze who all have multiple win conditions in lane as compared to a Katarina or A LeBlanc or a Ahri. you can smash a ryze in lane or a galio but they still become a walking tank at 15 minutes regardless how many times you solo killed them.''
Like i care what you or some guy on reddit said,youre literally silver,circle jerking about anything that isn't your own class that you main. I play mid,jg and adc,so i don't really care for any of who's stronger,i see how the game is
: She cannot 100-0 anyone using only point and click abilities. She has to land a skillshot I'm order to zero someone out. Also (I haven't run the numbers but I can get you math if you want) she can't 1shot at six without landing every ability and waiting 1.5 seconds for chains to proc. And even then she won't 0 put most champions.
Very hard to land an AOE skillshot,you're literally faker if you pull it off,also i don't think she can literally one shot with just QR at lvl 6,but when you get an item or two she can one shot you with QRWE
: Everything you just said is objectively untrue. But sure.
If i said the sky is blue you'd say im lying,her Q is point and click,she uses R for her Q again,boom crazy damage by point and click,her W acts as a flash,she can use it and then re-use it if someone closes the gap,and thats not even mentioning her R with which she can use W again,she's one of the safest assassins ever,thats also ranged,who's 90% of the damage comes from point and click or just an AOE that is W. Tell me please what here is untrue,or just admit you're biased af and can't hide how happy you are you got OP lb back
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U6AmXXU2,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-24T11:04:13.711+0000) > > Its funny how its ok for LB to be a ranged point and click assassin that start one shotting people as soon as she hits lvl 6,with a free flash on a 10 second cd that can be reused,but when adc start doing damage after getting 4 items everyone loses their mind ''oneshotting as soon as she turns 6'' point & click? What kind of bad adc are you to not be able to group against a fed assassin?
What kind of bad players are people complaining about adcs that can't kill the squishiest member of the enemy team? Stupid argument is stupid,if it were that easy no assassin would ever get played
: Thank you for reverting Leblanc
Its funny how its ok for LB to be a ranged point and click assassin that start one shotting people as soon as she hits lvl 6,with a free flash on a 10 second cd that can be reused,but when adc start doing damage after getting 4 items everyone loses their mind
Saianna (EUNE)
: Because Rito really wants machinegun ryze over actually balanced ryze in his super old days.
Balanced Ryze in his super old days,he was so op it wasn't even funny man,at least now he has some combos that dont involve WEQ and killing the enemy instantly,you dont remember his old E that used to bounce around? And his point and click Q?
BoianV (EUNE)
: {{item:3025}} Say it with me - "Melee only". Come on it's not that hard - "Melee only" "Melee only" "Melee only" "Melee only"!
Not like anyone uses that on an Ezreal,you build that and you literally do 150 damage Q to a Tank
: Every iteration of Ryze I have seen was him exploding people in 1.5 seconds while being an un-killable tank with very little AP from items. Waaaaay back in the day when we had original Ryze, I'd take him Mid with a FULL mana Rune Page and I'd win every lane handily, and I'm not even good. People were taking ADC's Mid at this time, and for example a Level 1 Ryze Q with a full mana page and Sapphire Crystal was 25-30% of Vayne's health. At Level 2 if my opponent was still in lane, if they had less than 85% health, I would Flash (if necessary), QWQ, Ignite (if necessary) for easy First Blood. There was no surviving it back then. While I don't play Ryze at all anymore, while I don't think the aforementioned is possible anymore, he doesn't seem any less stupidly strong.
I remember that season 1 ryze,man was that stupid,you remember that E that jumped back and forth,and if there were no enemies it would just jump off of ryze,so he would get into your melee range,root you and delete you with EQ
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aglk4GVE,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-20T19:13:46.861+0000) > > The thing is ADCs are pretty equal in terms of strength in very early stages of the game,im talking pre 6,while you still have only Dorans ring/shield/blade,but after that,when you get your first item,especially as a fighter/bruiser/tank that gets {{item:3071}} {{item:3068}} you're so much stronger than an ADC that gets just an IE first item,because he can't still utilize it properly since he doesn't have enough AS and Crit to do it,so in your case,Jarvan top,at this point in the game,you should be at least 2 levels ahead of her,and have at least 500-600 hp more,not to mention you have a shield,a knock up,as steriod,armor penetration from both your Q and your item,and an ult that does a lot of damage to a squishy. At this point in the game,and i'd say at every other point from the on,you should be able to kill her 1v1 unless you miss most of your spells. > And i don't think that you should auto deserve to win just cause your target is squishy,if you miss all your spells i think its kinda logical that then she has the upper hand,and that's kinda the way that it should be,cause no Tristana is surviving EQ auto R auto to her face,plus if you have something like Titanic,thats another chunk of her HP gone missing Well top help put it in perspective for you i had a game where me mid had similar CS as the ADC but was 6/1 and they were 2/2 yet their build looked like :{{item:3006}} {{item:3031}} and mines {{item:3285}} {{item:3020}} . Why do they have the same amount of items that i do at that point when i clearly had more gold income.
Well now youre just making shit up,either you had more than 1k gold laying around or you severely underestimate the cs lead the enemy ADC had,or maybe Assists? since Ludens plus boots is 100 gold cheaper than Zerker plus IE i don't see any way for them to have same items with less kills,cs and assists,they cant shit gold out or make items cheaper
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HarrowR

Level 85 (EUNE)
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