: Yeah well it'd be cool if they could stand in the middle of the enemy team for 5 seconds period
No it would not lol, getting blasted for full on 5 seconds by the entire enemy team while you stand there is not healthy or cool, i mean, of course for you it would be, but not to 90% of the other enemy players. If you spread your CC, focus the right champions and work with your team, you'll tank A LOT more than 5 seconds, but if you expect to go in 1v5 and hold the enemy team for 10+ seconds while your team is no where to be found, then im glad things arent the way you want them to be.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9aQpcEVx,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-09-11T04:59:23.018+0000) > > Her Q damage is nuts and honestly no one can duel her, i think she's waaaay worse than Vayne in design. > Yes people go RRRREEEE over vayne's true damage, but Kai'sa hybrid damage + % health damage does it's job just aswell, but with kai'sa's added mobility, invisibility, blink and shield. > > Her damage is just too much, when i play adc i cant duel her cause she outdamages me, when i play top i cant tank her because no item will actually be enough to soak her damage, and unlike Kog' she's self reliant and nimble. > Only ones who i see reliably get her are assassins with 4x times her mobility. it's not a blink but a dash and she can be stunned say if she uses it to go through a veigar W
Totally up to kai'sa to fall into that, or pure luck. Yes it's techincally a dash, but in practicality, it's a blink, it's instant and you cant predict it, so it's just up to her to fuck it up by dashing through stuns.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U5osgiN4,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-09-11T04:53:25.546+0000) > > A tank is suppose to be dying first, thats how you know he does his job well. > You're suppose to soak, disrupt and control the enemy, if you're being ignored you didnt do your job. Imagine getting downvoted for stating a fact.
Not hard, these boards like circlejerking things out of their context. Is damage too high? Yes Do tanks NOT focus on soaking as much damage away from.their carries? They do. So by simple logic, tanks should be the first to die if ANYONE is dying IF the tank player did it's job.
TehNACHO (NA)
: I wish player Gold was available in the Tab Screen
Look at their items. Even if they have 8k gold, it doesnt matter if they didnt back and still sit in lane with Doran's blade. By the time they cash that money, they are out of lane and cant be ganked, when they are back in lane, you just need to compare items with their enemies to measure their damage/sustain output.
: We knew how Kai'sa would turn out.
Her Q damage is nuts and honestly no one can duel her, i think she's waaaay worse than Vayne in design. Yes people go RRRREEEE over vayne's true damage, but Kai'sa hybrid damage + % health damage does it's job just aswell, but with kai'sa's added mobility, invisibility, blink and shield. Her damage is just too much, when i play adc i cant duel her cause she outdamages me, when i play top i cant tank her because no item will actually be enough to soak her damage, and unlike Kog' she's self reliant and nimble. Only ones who i see reliably get her are assassins with 4x times her mobility.
: I'd prefer tanks/bruisers having more HP to literally everyone dying in sub-4 seconds in teamfights.
A tank is suppose to be dying first, thats how you know he does his job well. You're suppose to soak, disrupt and control the enemy, if you're being ignored you didnt do your job. I dont think tanks should be able to stand in the middle of the enemy team for 5+ seconds reliably without spreading their CC apropriatly, which if they do, even now in this high damage meta, they can survive quite reliably.
: The already broken Riven gets buffed again, and suddenly she will be getting a new skin?
Kinda like when they nerfed Xayah this patch while releasing her legendary skin. Oh, wait... thats not like this at all.
: GangPlank Wave Clear Assistance
Wait for trinity. After trinity, Barrel + Q one shots caster minions, from that point wave clearing is pretty simple, 1 barrel for casters + 1 basic attack for melee minions. After you get more damage and crit, you can 1 shot waves. It's not hard, just farm up until sheen for reliable Q last hitting, then after trinity your wave clear is great.
Tsuko (NA)
: Really love how this game is balanced around what champion sells the most skins.
musixxal (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6IRa1JKh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-01T05:23:31.191+0000) > > {{champion:133}} 2% pickrate, 52% winrate. > {{champion:67}} 1.7% pickrate, 48% winrate. > {{champion:18}} 0.6% pickrate, 47% winrate. > To put that into perspective, you'd have more than double the chance of seeing JUST darius than all 3 of those adc's combined. > > They are the defenition of win (more like annoy) lane, lose game. > They offer 0 frontline, CC, utility or any team support, their only hopes of winning is snowballing so far out of control no one can deal with them, and that requires a player who feeds them hard enough in the first place. > > Everytime im against a Vayne top it's the same shtick, play reserved, all in when they slip, wait for gank, watch enemy ranged laner start shit talking in all chat. > > Even if you have a hard time into them, they are not common picks by any means like you say they are, in your last 20+ games you faced 1 ranged toplaner, which was Kennen. but even seeing darius or vlad isn't fun, so adding to the mix that any of the mentioned here can be found there too isn't pleasing news no matter how rare.
If you hate most of toplane's picks except for a very few specific match ups, then maybe toplane isnt for you? Darius and Vlad have been toplaners pretty much for their entire league's duration.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6IRa1JKh,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-01T17:27:17.965+0000) > > You mean the same morde who is at the top of the toplaner picks from the patch he was reworked? Darius who is also an S+ pick for forever now? yea, they are not Riven or Jax, but they arent weak and when they counter you, they HARD counter you. Yes the same Morde who gets kited by literally everyone and has to get fed in lane to make a difference. The same Morde who does not landslide win against any lane bullies top. Just because you get slapped by him doesn't make him opop. Also, "S+ tier" is an entirely meaningless term more dependent on playrate than anything else. Some sites will call champs S+ with under 50% winrates (Riven commonly). > > What kind of logic is that? If no champion can burst her pre-6, a freaking VAYNE! then NO champion is gankgable, unless you are gonna tell me Vayne is also tankier than melee champions. > You realise that a jungler wont gank your lane ONLY if you can solo burst your enemy right? Im pretty sure throwing vayne into a 2v1 will shift the powers. > Are you really saying champs should be capable of one shot bursting pre 6? That makes completely zero sense. And why would a jungler gank you and rely on you to do 100% of the damage? Do you play with a Nunu who misses his snowball every game? That basically means assassin jungles are useless. Lol I guess J4/Reksai/Elise don't do any damage early game? > Cheesing someone is tilting, the subjective part is what people are getting tilted by, i've had games where i literally just sat under turret as Pantheon to avoid fights against a morde, and he got tilted, BM in all chat and just started diving me and feeding me. > I've had games where people are tilted because i Q them with GP, i've had games where people tilt because with 1 pull i shove them out of lane with Darius with passive + ignite. > THATS subjective, everyone are tilted by different things, and just like you're mad that Vayne is zoning you when you're Darius, some Nasus player is fuming he cant get close to a minion because Darius is zoning him from his stacks, you just dont like when the shoe's on the other foot. > You completely changed the point of what we were talking about. This is a largely meaningless tangent. > His winrate is [51.4% winrate, 9.5% pickrate,](https://u.gg/lol/champions/darius/build), if you dont see how he's miles better as a whole than Vayne and Tristana top, then i dont know how else to talk to your logic, the fact he has double the pickrate of 3!!! of the marksmen top combined, and still has higher winrate than 2 of those is more than enough to show you who ACTUALLY is the better pick top, No, annoying you in a matchup doesnt make you a better pick, it just makes you an annoying pick, and Vayne/Tristana ARE annoying, i will not deny or defend that, but they dont need nerfs (around their toplane presence). > There is not a single other website to be found with a winrate on Darius that high. Is that Gold and below or something? He doesn't even hit 51% in Korea while having a similar playrate. I never said Darius was a worse champ. He's largely better and more impactful thorughout the game, but that has nothing to do with the fact that a Vayne would completely shut him down in lane and make him useless. Vayne still beats more matchups and harder. The fact that she will rarely solo carry games translates to the statistical differences. This whole post was about Vayne being a borderline unbeatable oppressive cancerous thing to face top and that's still true. Even if you tihnk Darius is strong, he still has clear exploitable weaknesses throughout the game, unlike adcs top. > Literally everything you said here can be said for vayne too, only vayne has about 1/6th of his pickrate, and has 48% winrate, oh but she's ranged, so gutt her i guess. Vayne is an adc that runs people down and smacks them with damage. She has constant ms buffs towards enemies and during her ult, near constant invis, she has plenty of engage for a marksman and more disengage than is typical. Darius is extremely different and plays an entirely different role. You say don't nerf her due to top, but it's more about giving melees a way to deal with the marksman abuse. It's a whole class problem and it branches to champs like Neeko and Viktor too.
> You say don't nerf her due to top, but it's more about giving melees a way to deal with the marksman abuse. It's a whole class problem and it branches to champs like Neeko and Viktor too. Read your entire post, only gonna reply to that because that's the most relevent one. And i totally agree with you, melee champs need a starting item that will help them survive versus long range match ups - IN LANE, something like doran's shield but better against ranged.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhljgHhx,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-09-02T05:50:33.739+0000) > > Didnt his old E have crit scaling? > It's more for niche builds, also, witts end and trinity might be good options. It doesn't have "crit scaling". Garen E can crit for %50 bonus damage. It's not part of his power budget, it was included just for "fun builds" - it wasn't considered realistic that he would actually build crit meta. In Season 7 or so, with crit Runes, it became possible to add an IE to a build to boost E to it's old levels. The old JG Garen build did include PD.
Yea, that's what i meant, bad wording. My point is i think that change is partially returning niche builds but instead of crit which is a far cry from stats Garen needs, AS can be "kinda" be built better into his items rather than IE.
: Riot what did u do to Garen on PBE?
Didnt his old E have crit scaling? It's more for niche builds, also, witts end and trinity might be good options.
94372148 (NA)
: Why play a tank when you can't tank shit and assassins do more dmg and often more cc?
evelynn and lee sin do NOT have better CC than tanks, let alone Zac lol, but sure, lets throw all objectivity out the window. Why play tanks when Soraka 1 shots me when i build full MR as maoki!?
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6IRa1JKh,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-09-01T11:18:16.867+0000) > > No, it doesnt matter, because many picks ruin "the lane experience" depending on your champ, not to mention laning phase is only 1 part of the game. > Also, subjective, Darius/Morde ruin my toplane experience, i would prefer fighting a Vayne over them almost into any pick because i know that 1 slip up from Vayne and i'll 1 shot her whenever she gets in my range. > > What ELO are you that a Jungler cant gank a lone marksmen in top? > > Again, subjective, you're giving me your opinions (which are valid) and im giving numbers. > OP complains he cant queue top without the fear of facing a marksmen, i proved him that not only 2/3 of those marksmen picks weak, but you'd have double the chance of just facing Darius, than all 3 of them combined. Many is an exaggeration. Darius and Mordekaiser are both pretty balanced after their most recent changes. In fact, I'm willing to bet a lot of people could argue Morde could use a late game buff. It's not nearly as subjective as you're trying to make it. It's a matter of available counterplay and what that counterplay is. Against Vayne, most champs have to hide under their tower until mid game. It's no different than like Yi into Jax. Jax will punish him if he doesn't play safe. The issue is, Vayne and other ranged tops, do this to most of their matchups and basically just turn off that side of the map. If you prefer fighting a Vayne then you've never faced an even remotely good one. Vayne has always been a bane of the community much like Akali. Again, her kit allows her to harshly bully melees. If you haven't done/experienced this, then idk why you're getting involved with this guy's post. It's not new and there are other champs that do it similarly. I'm Platinum hbu? Vayne has a 3 sec dash at level 1 when walking with the wave. And she'll just condemn one of you away. No single champ has the damage to burst her pre 6 so most junglers won't even gank her unless she pushes way up. Which, with proper wave management, can be avoided. Again, not subjective, you just want it to be for some reason. Early cheezing someone, bullying them in lane, denying them cs, and repeat killing will lead to tilting and making someone play worse. It's part of the game whether you think it's an opinion or not. The stats you clipped don't really prove much. You may have the playrates of the 2 champs he cites (and quinn), but there's another handful that have a similar abuse pattern and much higher play rates. And trust me, there is a constant fear of fighting a ranged champ. That's why most of the meta stays mobile like Riven and Jax. Every time a Darius player locks Darius 1st, he runs a huge risk of being useless all game into a list of ranged tops. Your right, Darius does get picked significantly more than those 3 combined. However, his winrate barely ever breaks 50% even though he's this extremely strong lane bullying resetting healing 1/2 his hp while on the brink of death champion (sarcasm). The fact is he's pretty balanced having little cc and an engage tool on a long cd. Not to mention he's really just too squishy to close out games solo. He's picked even more than Aatrox who in a lot of ways is a better version of Darius. Vayne's just all around better at playing top lane.
> Many is an exaggeration. Darius and Mordekaiser are both pretty balanced after their most recent changes. In fact, I'm willing to bet a lot of people could argue Morde could use a late game buff. You mean the same morde who is at the top of the toplaner picks from the patch he was reworked? Darius who is also an S+ pick for forever now? yea, they are not Riven or Jax, but they arent weak and when they counter you, they HARD counter you. > No single champ has the damage to burst her pre 6 so most junglers won't even gank her unless she pushes way up. Which, with proper wave management, can be avoided. What kind of logic is that? If no champion can burst her pre-6, a freaking VAYNE! then NO champion is gankgable, unless you are gonna tell me Vayne is also tankier than melee champions. You realise that a jungler wont gank your lane ONLY if you can solo burst your enemy right? Im pretty sure throwing vayne into a 2v1 will shift the powers. > Again, not subjective, you just want it to be for some reason. Early cheezing someone, bullying them in lane, denying them cs, and repeat killing will lead to tilting and making someone play worse. It's part of the game whether you think it's an opinion or not. Cheesing someone is tilting, the subjective part is what people are getting tilted by, i've had games where i literally just sat under turret as Pantheon to avoid fights against a morde, and he got tilted, BM in all chat and just started diving me and feeding me. I've had games where people are tilted because i Q them with GP, i've had games where people tilt because with 1 pull i shove them out of lane with Darius with passive + ignite. THATS subjective, everyone are tilted by different things, and just like you're mad that Vayne is zoning you when you're Darius, some Nasus player is fuming he cant get close to a minion because Darius is zoning him from his stacks, you just dont like when the shoe's on the other foot. > Your right, Darius does get picked significantly more than those 3 combined. However, his winrate barely ever breaks 50% even though he's this extremely strong lane bullying resetting healing 1/2 his hp while on the brink of death champion (.sarcasm) His winrate is [51.4% winrate, 9.5% pickrate,](https://u.gg/lol/champions/darius/build), if you dont see how he's miles better as a whole than Vayne and Tristana top, then i dont know how else to talk to your logic, the fact he has double the pickrate of 3!!! of the marksmen top combined, and still has higher winrate than 2 of those is more than enough to show you who ACTUALLY is the better pick top, No, annoying you in a matchup doesnt make you a better pick, it just makes you an annoying pick, and Vayne/Tristana ARE annoying, i will not deny or defend that, but they dont need nerfs (around their toplane presence). > The fact is he's pretty balanced having little cc and an engage tool on a long cd. Not to mention he's really just too squishy to close out games solo. Literally everything you said here can be said for vayne too, only vayne has about 1/6th of his pickrate, and has 48% winrate, oh but she's ranged, so gutt her i guess.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6IRa1JKh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-01T05:23:31.191+0000) > > {{champion:133}} 2% pickrate, 52% winrate. > {{champion:67}} 1.7% pickrate, 48% winrate. > {{champion:18}} 0.6% pickrate, 47% winrate. > To put that into perspective, you'd have more than double the chance of seeing JUST darius than all 3 of those adc's combined. > > They are the defenition of win (more like annoy) lane, lose game. > They offer 0 frontline, CC, utility or any team support, their only hopes of winning is snowballing so far out of control no one can deal with them, and that requires a player who feeds them hard enough in the first place. > > Everytime im against a Vayne top it's the same shtick, play reserved, all in when they slip, wait for gank, watch enemy ranged laner start shit talking in all chat. > > Even if you have a hard time into them, they are not common picks by any means like you say they are, in your last 20+ games you faced 1 ranged toplaner, which was Kennen. What matters is it completely ruins the lane experience. It's harshly imbalanced through the first 15 minutes of gameplay and VERY few junglers can do anything about it. With basic gold level skills this is complete cheez and almost anyone could climb with it. It shuts a whole side of the map down and tilts the crap out of the enemy player while denying him harsly.
> What matters is it completely ruins the lane experience. No, it doesnt matter, because many picks ruin "the lane experience" depending on your champ, not to mention laning phase is only 1 part of the game. Also, subjective, Darius/Morde ruin my toplane experience, i would prefer fighting a Vayne over them almost into any pick because i know that 1 slip up from Vayne and i'll 1 shot her whenever she gets in my range. > It's harshly imbalanced through the first 15 minutes of gameplay and VERY few junglers can do anything about it What ELO are you that a Jungler cant gank a lone marksmen in top? > tilts the crap out of the enemy player while denying him harsly. Again, subjective, you're giving me your opinions (which are valid) and im giving numbers. OP complains he cant queue top without the fear of facing a marksmen, i proved him that not only 2/3 of those marksmen picks weak, but you'd have double the chance of just facing Darius, than all 3 of them combined.
: Top lane sucks right now
{{champion:133}} 2% pickrate, 52% winrate. {{champion:67}} 1.7% pickrate, 48% winrate. {{champion:18}} 0.6% pickrate, 47% winrate. To put that into perspective, you'd have more than double the chance of seeing JUST darius than all 3 of those adc's combined. They are the defenition of win (more like annoy) lane, lose game. They offer 0 frontline, CC, utility or any team support, their only hopes of winning is snowballing so far out of control no one can deal with them, and that requires a player who feeds them hard enough in the first place. Everytime im against a Vayne top it's the same shtick, play reserved, all in when they slip, wait for gank, watch enemy ranged laner start shit talking in all chat. Even if you have a hard time into them, they are not common picks by any means like you say they are, in your last 20+ games you faced 1 ranged toplaner, which was Kennen.
: But that's my point. At no point does kayle HAVE to fight darius melee range unless he uses flash and ghost (but hey she has flash too). And even then, if she plays it safe, freezes lane near tower whenever she gets the chance, snags cs from range with abilities when she's not near tower, and just doesn't fight darius, he won't get fed enough. Since she massively outscales him, all she has to do is not give up a three kill lead to darius and/or a 60 cs lead. If she manages that, she won lane. Aside from ghost and flash, she never HAS to be in range of his pull. If he can't pull her, she'll never even be close enough for him to W. OF course though, some kayles are dweebs and play frisky (myself included when I try kayle from time to time) and get too close too early only to be slaughtered. But otherwise, I've played against some real good ones too, and they are NEAR impossible all in AND finish off before they escape and heal. They simply poke when it's convenient, farm, escape, wash rinse repeat. If they poke successfully for long enough, I'm the one who has to back so they don't execute me with E. Against a good kayle, I can maybe force one kill on her during lane, possibly two (all of this assuming neutral jg influence). Simply put, that's not enough to bury her or get ahead
She needs to CS, putting yourself between her and the CS not only deleys her items (due to lost gold) but also from experience, Kayle is a time bomb, eventually she'll beat anyone, your job in lane is to deley it as much as you can, not just by killing her, but denying her every resource you can. Turret plates, minion gold, kill gold, Experience etc... After she hits level 6, you probably have phage, gives a nice MS to try to get a good pull while she stops to CS, her range is 525, Darius's pull is 545-560 (something a BIT longer range than her AA range), a good Darius will know when to go in when she starts her auto attack animation, proc his phage, and go in for pull. Also, burning ghost is not a bad idea, it has a pretty low CD and it almost gurantees you'll be in melee range for the next duration. I'm not saying it's fun playing against her, or that it's conventional, but it's not impossible or even that hard until she hits her powerpsike, then it becomes a TEAM effort.
: The problem is that doesn't really mean you win against her. Once she hits lvl 3, it's near impossible to really get ahold of kayle and finish her (providing that either both of you have flash or neither of you) since she has both a speed boost, a heal, and a range aoe slow that's easy to hit on darius, plus a range massive scaling execute (almost as good as some ultimates as far as executes go). If she merely farms half the CS that darius gets, and knows how and where to freeze lane, she will outscale by default and simply because more useful. If darius doesn't put her down by 3 or more kills then he lost the matchup. One kill (barring jg influence on either side) is virtually guaranteed for darius, but other than that, a good kayle can play ultra safe and get decent CS
You have a pull, and a slow aswell, your pull nullifies her slow because you get her in melee range, your W nullifies her MS because it slows her as soon as you pull. Your Q when she eventually runs, does extra damage and heals you. In no way can Kayle trade with Darius pre-level 6, after 6 it's more of a skill match ups of cat and mouse on how well Kayle can stay out of Darius's reach.
: Do you consider GP to be difficult or easy?
in lane, all you have to do is play safe, so his laning is pretty easy. It's also easier thanks to klepto and grasp, both making his early laning phase survivable. Come mid to late game, you need to actually know how to play him to actually contribute, your Q poke isnt really relevent anymore since it becomes just a strong AA on CD, so you need to learn barrel combos, be aware for when to ulti around the map, tripple barrel combo, ghost barrel combo, play around enemies hitting your barrels. I'd say he's pretty hard, he's my 3rd most played champ and if i take a break from playing him, it takes me quite a few games to slip back into his barrel combos reliably.
: Meanwhile in Top Lane?
> or for example against Kayle until level 6 Kayle should not be able to touch a single minion without using Q and E if you're Darius, you literally burn her flash every time you grab her with E. After that you just have to play around your pull, and wait for her to ult, she cant duel you 1v1 after you pull her, her only option is to escape as fast as possible.
Mythrandill (EUNE)
: If the 10'th year anniversary of LOL is mobile league you will get the Bizzard treatment
the backlash for diablo mobile was not just because it was mobile, Bethesda also released elder scrolls mobile version and they didnt get a backlash for it (well they did, but for the scummy Micro transtactions). Blizzard got a backlash because they teased and teased how the next chapter of diablo is comming, people gor psyched thinking they will get a full new tripple A experience, and instead they got a mobile reskin watered down version, and to add insult to injury, talked down to people "do you not have phones?!" that's kinda like using Artifact (Valve's hearthstone copy) as a reason to not make card games, the idea itself is not the problem, it's the execution. I dont see why Riot would get a backlash for releasing a mobile version of League for free alongside their other projects, it wont replace anything major.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pnhKgQe6,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T12:47:29.213+0000) > > Is that why most of their none-mobile games cost money? full premium 60$, and even in those games they shove micro transactions, not to mention older games with subscription based payment (WoW), having their own storefront etc... etc... > Thats just greed, doesnt invalidate my point. > Maybe not gold cards, but they do sell card packs dont they? > So? im talking about craftable cosmetics. > You have no point, your point is "Hey, i want free stuff", it would be nice to have, yes - but a company's main goal is to earn money, they have no reason to cut into their own main revenue stream such a siginificant way more than hextech already has. Wrong. I paid before and will pay again if i like the game, dont shove words down my throat. Also i love how you moved past the smite, hots etc. examples since they prove you wrong. A company reducing their profits =/= a company going bankrupt. So your answer boils down to being a corporate shill? Why am i not surprised. Dont bother replying, im done here, nothing i say will get you to move past your biases.
> Thats just greed, doesnt invalidate my point. How not? you give examples of how these gaming companies allow for "free" specific skin crafting, i tell you it's because they have other ways of earning major revenue without monetizing skins. If they have other ways ot earning money, giving them as an example for free skin crafting is not valid, because you pay in other ways, unlike in league. > Wrong. I paid before and will pay again if i like the game, dont shove words down my throat. > So your answer boils down to corporate shilling? Why am i not surprised. > Dont bother replying, nothing i say will get you to move past your biases. If you paid before and will pay again, what's the problem with purchasing your desired skins? you know you can defend a practice without being a shill, kinda like how with your logic, you're a shill for smite. I have no bias, i gain nothing from arguing over this and i have no stakes here, it just funny how entiteld some people feel, you got your answer, but you refuse accepting it by pointing out to other games, but when i point out how these other games have other money "traps" you say the points are invalid. > A company reducing their profits =/= a company going bankrupt. Right, but would you reduce your profit as a working developer just as long as your company doesnt go bankrupt? You know people actually work on those skins right? Riot doesnt shit them out in their "make a skin" machine, people put work hours into that, why should their pay day get a cut?
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pnhKgQe6,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T11:59:11.478+0000) > > Did you miss the part where Overwatch is a 60$ game and is ran by blizzard? > Or that hearthstone cards actually effect gameplay? > Or that all these games minus smite are ran by Blizzard, a multi franchise, multi platfrom juggernaut of a company with other revenue streams other than "overwatch lootboxes"? Did you miss the part where riot runs one of the most popular and profitable games in the history of gaming? Or that hearthstone is f2p and gold cards dont affect gameplay? Or that smite and hots are f2p and still make a profit despite the system. Why are you ignoring smite? Bcs it proves my point? Blizz stop pumping resources into a project if it doesnt make returns, thats why the hots pro scene was shut down. So no, blizzard games dont rely that much on sources outside their microtransactions.
> So no, blizzard games dont rely that much on sources outside their microtransactions. Is that why most of their none-mobile games cost money? full premium 60$, and even in those games they shove micro transactions, not to mention older games with subscription based payment (WoW), having their own storefront etc... etc... > Or that hearthstone is f2p and gold cards dont affect gameplay? Maybe not gold cards, but they do sell card packs dont they? card packs that take a slow time to unlock without money, that you require to build a competetive deck, not to mention DLC packs ontop. Cosmetics are not their main source of revenue. > Why are you ignoring smite? Bcs it proves my point? You have no point, your point is "Hey, i want free stuff", it would be nice to have, yes - but a company's main goal is to earn money, they have no reason to cut into their own main revenue stream such a siginificant way more than hextech already has. Hextech is already free without requiring you to buy keys with actual money, no need to get everything for free.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pnhKgQe6,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-30T11:36:53.104+0000) > > Because skins are their major money revenue, and giving them away in a reliable way will hurt their main revenue source. Did you miss the part where i mentioned other games that pull it off that also have skins as their main revenue. No one buys overwatch lootboxes for the voicelines or the profile icons, they want that cool reaper skin.
Did you miss the part where Overwatch is a 60$ game and is ran by blizzard? Or that hearthstone cards actually effect gameplay? Or that all these games minus smite are ran by Blizzard, a multi franchise, multi platfrom juggernaut of a company with other revenue streams other than "overwatch lootboxes"?
: Why doesnt hextech crafting let me decide what to craft.
Because skins are their major money revenue, and giving them away in a reliable way will hurt their main revenue source.
Nubrac (NA)
: Here are Reasons I Won't Drop the Ban Discussion
> [{quoted}](name=Nubrac,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ryli1LOw,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-08-08T00:52:55.924+0000) > 3. Have people choose summoners and champs they never played before because im Nubrac > 5. Takes 30 minutes to get into a game and get past Champ select and get in game because I'm Nubrac > Other players ruin the game on purpose because i'm Nubrac I find these 2 points extreamly ironic. 1st - Didnt you say the point of the game is to have fun? And try new things that challenge the meta? So suddenly people first timing champions is wrong? 2nd, didnt you ALSO say that if people dont like you picking Teemo, they can dodge? So suddenly it's wrong when people ACTUALLY know what you're about to do, instead of pulling the blindfold over their head when they are already IN the game? You made your own bed, you wanted to be famous, you got it, now that people know you, they also get to choose if they want to endure your BS strat and play around your toxic "strat". And guess what, people dont like putting all their fun and satisfaction on hold just so you get to play with your sub-par strat that only you want to play.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAnPMQAE,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-28T20:26:22.734+0000) > > You dont even remember the amount of IP for first win, yet you say with confidence it was better then than it is now, even when i give you actual data on how long it took to unlock 1! quint (out of 3 you need, for 1 rune page, if you buy the cheapest version). > Also, you didnt read my calculation, the 585 IP you get each night of griding was INCLUDING the first win othe day bonus. I've been playing since 2014, of course I don't remember everything dude. > > XP values havent changed, again, you prove me you're wrong and dont actually remember how things used to be. XP system changed, not to mention how people have complained about the grind to level is significantly worse, therefore XP system is worse. > > Grinding takes about the same, only you dont need to grind for 2 rune pages first, so you grind staright for your champion you actually need, and not play at a disadvantage for your first 30 levels. Old system, leveling up in the beginning you didn't need the runes much so you worked for a few champions as you leveled up, then went for the base runes you needed (AD, AP, health, defense). > It take EXACTLY as how long i said it takes, because unlike your shady memory, i gave you actual data and calculations. Nice one, insulting me. How rude. And no it does not. > > That's the problem here, when those 3 are in the spotlight you dont "see" much rage because you ignore it, because you dont care, the champ you like is strong, you dont spend time here looking for people who complain about it. > When Karma is top tier, she's cancer, she takes over support, midlane and toplane with cancer builds where you cant reach her, she shields her entire team and pokes everyone, but of course you dont "recall" them being as bad as pyke, they are only a "nuisance" but not "frustarating", sure, tell that to toplaners who had to fight Karma top until she was nerfed, lets see how much they didnt care for her. I don't ignore it. I see it and counter argue against it to let the blind people raging see behind clear eyes. I've been on the boards almost everyday for the past few years. A shield buff does not make Karma cancer in three lanes, nice try bud. She was nerfed recently due to the buff making her strong in pro play, not because of her top lane. I've played them and against them, and they are nowhere near as frustrating as Pyke. Sona poke? Stay out of her range, jump on her when her heal is down, bam easy. Zyra? Avoid her root, step on plants, bait the E and jump on her, bam easy. Karma? Bait the shield, jump on her, done. Pyke- hook, flip, stun, self heal, invisibility, 50% health execute. Wanna poke? He heals it back up in a second. Wanna jump on him? He stuns and flies away. Wanna go all in? He ults you before you can kill him and fight is over. Those three are a nuisance, not frustrating. > > Every comment you make further proves me you have no idea what you're talking about, and that's why your thread is downvoted to hell. Wow, how rude. I know what I am talking about just fine. At least I'm respectful. The thread is downvoted because of Pyke mains and current players who never played the old seasons, not because "I don't know what I'm talking about." If you continue to insult, you will be downvoted and ignored.
> If you continue to insult, you will be downvoted and ignored. You already downvote my comment as soon as it's out, so not much loss there. > The thread is downvoted because of Pyke mains and current players who never played the old seasons, not because "I don't know what I'm talking about." Best kind of logic, "People who dont agree with me are X mains", also, played since season 3, this is my 2nd account > Old system, leveling up in the beginning you didn't need the runes much so you worked for a few champions as you leveled up, then went for the base runes you needed (AD, AP, health, defense). You did need runes eventually, it was an IP sink, it doesnt matter WHNE you need to sink that IP, because you HAVE to sink it, or you wont be up to par with your enemies and your team mates, if you waste your early IP on champions, once you hit level 30 you wont have IP for runes, if you stock your IP for runes, you wont have any champions unlocked, not sure what your point is. > XP system changed, not to mention how people have complained about the grind to level is significantly worse, therefore XP system is worse. The XP system didnt change, i dont know how else to prove it, but by asking YOU to show me actual data otherwise, no, saying people "complained" so it's wrose, give me actual evidence that the amount of experience needed to level 30 is increased, any other reasoning is not evidence, it's just your (flase) opinion. > I've played them and against them, and they are nowhere near as frustrating as Pyke. Sona poke? Stay out of her range, jump on her when her heal is down, bam easy. Zyra? Avoid her root, step on plants, bait the E and jump on her, bam easy. Karma? Bait the shield, jump on her, done. Subjective, Subjective, Subjective, I think Zyra is waaaaay more cancer than pyke, Stepping on her plants means she roots you, missing her roots still gives her so much poke in lane for not really doing anything, her damage is insane and her ult crowd control is one of the best for a support. Should she be deleted because i hate her? many other people DESPISE her, espacially when she's strong, so by your logic, an annoying, complained about champ should be deleted, you dont get to be a hypocrite here, if your basis for deleting Pyke is that people complain about him, than delete Zyra aswell.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAnPMQAE,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-28T19:35:20.931+0000) > > I dont think you get what im saying, Much more people will see those skins if they were released on popular champions, thus spreading their influence much faster and better than if you released a skin for Annie and you'd see it in 1 out of 50 games. Nope. The popular champions are already popular. More skins won't increase their influence, only on the unpopular ones. > > You seem to be delusional to the fact that if you deleted pyke and neeko, people will stop complaining, even if no one cared if Pyke and Neeko were deleted, people would still ask for more champions to be deleted, it's a cycle as old as time, until eventually we'll deleted so many "annoying" champs we'll have Teemo removed. > You think Pyke and Neeko are the first champions who have people complain about them? I'm not delusional. I see the rage about them. I'm only talking about them specifically, not about other champions. Maybe Riot will finally see that after they delete these two, that it will better influence their decisions when they create new ones so the cycle won't be repeated. > > Rage will increase if Riot started deleting people's main's just because people like you dont like them/cant be arsed to learn how to counter them, i see you like playing Sona Zyra and Karma, you know that when these champions are in the spotlight people want them removed/gutted out of existance right? or is that case different? It's not just me that don't like them, don't try that argument dude. I know how to counter just about every champ as well but when one champ does way too much to where they can't be outdone by their counters, something is wrong. Neeko is not as frustrating as Pyke though. I hate her because Riot didn't seem to think much on the creativity aspect and stole parts of other champions kits and slapped it on her. She is way overtuned in the numbers department though. I don't see as much rage when those three are in the spotlight compared to Pyke though. They are more of a nuisance, yes, but not frustrating. It's more due to pro play that they can never be relevant these days. (For example, Karma, gets a shield buff, pro play win rate flies up, she's immediately nerfed to a state worse than before she was buffed). > > 4 to 5 games every night, lets to the math: > - in old IP system**, you'd get 18IP + 2.3 per minute for victory**, **and 16 IP + 1.4 IP per Minute**, Average game is about 30 minutes, that would mean **87 IP for a 30 minute victory **and about **60 IP per loss**, so in 4-5 games if you win EVERY game, you'd get about 585 IP per night if you won EVERY game + first win. that would mean you'd get 1 low tier Quint a day, just 1, per night. So? Not to mention if I remember right, you got a daily bonus on your first win, but I don't remember the amount, so that increases your bank. It's not that bad anyway. Previously I could level a smurf to 30 in a few days. Now it takes me weeks. > > 3 nights for a set of the most basic cheapest quints which only benefit either AD or AP, not including minor runes, IF you can spare about 3 hours every night to grind with no runes or champions and IF you win every game. > Only THEN would you start saving up for a champion you actually want to play so you wont be at a disadvantage. > Some people have lives, some people have jobs, some people dont like to grind for weeks while being behind and losing lanes just to get started at even footing. Grinding takes weeks now too, but it's worse now. Yea I know people have responsibilities, but it doesn't take as long as you say it does. > > Just by how you look back at runes, you proved that you wear those rose tinted glasses with pride. Nope. My glasses are perfectly clear, mind you.
> So? Not to mention if I remember right, you got a daily bonus on your first win, but I don't remember the amount, so that increases your bank. It's not that bad anyway. You dont even remember the amount of IP for first win, yet you say with confidence it was better then than it is now, even when i give you actual data on how long it took to unlock 1! quint (out of 3 you need, for 1 rune page, if you buy the cheapest version). Also, you didnt read my calculation, the 585 IP you get each night of griding was INCLUDING the first win othe day bonus. > Previously I could level a smurf to 30 in a few days. Now it takes me weeks. XP values havent changed, again, you prove me you're wrong and dont actually remember how things used to be. > Grinding takes weeks now too, but it's worse now. Yea I know people have responsibilities, but it doesn't take as long as you say it does. Grinding takes about the same, only you dont need to grind for 2 rune pages first, so you grind staright for your champion you actually need, and not play at a disadvantage for your first 30 levels. It take EXACTLY as how long i said it takes, because unlike your shady memory, i gave you actual data and calculations. > I don't see as much rage when those three are in the spotlight compared to Pyke though. They are more of a nuisance, yes, but not frustrating. It's more due to pro play that they can never be relevant these days. (For example, Karma, gets a shield buff, pro play win rate flies up, she's immediately nerfed to a state worse than before she was buffed). That's the problem here, when those 3 are in the spotlight you dont "see" much rage because you ignore it, because you dont care, the champ you like is strong, you dont spend time here looking for people who complain about it. When Karma is top tier, she's cancer, she takes over support, midlane and toplane with cancer builds where you cant reach her, she shields her entire team and pokes everyone, but of course you dont "recall" them being as bad as pyke, they are only a "nuisance" but not "frustarating", sure, tell that to toplaners who had to fight Karma top until she was nerfed, lets see how much they didnt care for her. Every comment you make further proves me you have no idea what you're talking about, and that's why your thread is downvoted to hell. > Nope. The popular champions are already popular. More skins won't increase their influence, only on the unpopular ones. You say that as if there is a cap on how popular a champion can get (technicelly there is), and as if ANY champion has reached that cap.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAnPMQAE,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-08-28T18:00:58.665+0000) > > Okay, and less mains > less people playing on that champ > Less people buy that skin > less people show off said skin. > No one mains a champion based on what legendary skin that champion got, and if there are people like that, they are in the extreme minority Nope. Mains plus new mains that come in from seeing the champ's new skin = more popularity. > > Subjective, and many people like them, what about the people who bought skins for them? will you refund them all with their money? so, losing players AND losing money, and if you dont refund the money, you'll create further outrage. The rage of losing a champ will die down as the game's balance improves vastly. Riot makes enough money to cover the loss of the skins and refunds. > Much more outrage than a few rant threads on these champs Nah. Rage over the champs now is only going to increase if Riot doesn't do anything. > > Probably, there are also probably way more who prefer if a champion wont get deleted just because they are annoyed with it, but then again, you know better right? -.- Nope. > > You mean back to league of thunderlord? League of courage of the colossus? League of ferevor? League of Warlord's bloodlust? > You mean back when i had to buy IP boosters just to stay competetive so i wont be at a disadvantage because i had to choose between buying champs, or buy runes that directly effect how strong my early game is? yea i loved grinding games just to get 1 quint for the IP worth of almost 3 cheap champions. Season 5/6, it's been awhile but back to Thunderlord, Windspeaker's blessing, etc. Those seasons were the best in the past 5 years of the game. If you had to buy IP boosters, you weren't playing the game right. Just me playing four to five games or more every night helped me get enough runes that I needed, then once I was done, just banked IP to buy champions as they came out. The grinding now is way worse than before anyway especially levels 0-30. > > Rose tinted glasses. Nope. Nice try though.
> Nope. Mains plus new mains that come in from seeing the champ's new skin = more popularity. I dont think you get what im saying, Much more people will see those skins if they were released on popular champions, thus spreading their influence much faster and better than if you released a skin for Annie and you'd see it in 1 out of 50 games. > The rage of losing a champ will die down as the game's balance improves vastly. Riot makes enough money to cover the loss of the skins and refunds. You seem to be delusional to the fact that if you deleted pyke and neeko, people will stop complaining, even if no one cared if Pyke and Neeko were deleted, people would still ask for more champions to be deleted, it's a cycle as old as time, until eventually we'll deleted so many "annoying" champs we'll have Teemo removed. You think Pyke and Neeko are the first champions who have people complain about them? > Nah. Rage over the champs now is only going to increase if Riot doesn't do anything. Rage will increase if Riot started deleting people's main's just because people like you dont like them/cant be arsed to learn how to counter them, i see you like playing Sona Zyra and Karma, you know that when these champions are in the spotlight people want them removed/gutted out of existance right? or is that case different? > If you had to buy IP boosters, you weren't playing the game right. Just me playing four to five games or more every night helped me get enough runes that I needed, then once I was done, just banked IP to buy champions as they came out. The grinding now is way worse than before anyway especially levels 0-30. 4 to 5 games every night, lets to the math: - in old IP system**, you'd get 18IP + 2.3 per minute for victory**, **and 16 IP + 1.4 IP per Minute**, Average game is about 30 minutes, that would mean **87 IP for a 30 minute victory **and about **60 IP per loss**, so in 4-5 games if you win EVERY game, you'd get about 585 IP per night if you won EVERY game + first win. that would mean you'd get 1 low tier Quint a day, just 1, per night. 3 nights for a set of the most basic cheapest quints which only benefit either AD or AP, not including minor runes, IF you can spare about 3 hours every night to grind with no runes or champions and IF you win every game. Only THEN would you start saving up for a champion you actually want to play so you wont be at a disadvantage. Some people have lives, some people have jobs, some people dont like to grind for weeks while being behind and losing lanes just to get started at even footing. > Nope. Nice try though. Just by how you look back at runes, you proved that you wear those rose tinted glasses with pride.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAnPMQAE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-28T16:57:09.219+0000) > > - Release skins for unpopular champions > - Nobody buys those skins because they are for unpopular champions, skin designers get a cut off their paycheck Actually all the mains buy the skins, then play the champ with that skin, therefore increasing popularity and designers are then payed accordingly. > - "Hey, at least i got a few positive threads on an online forum -.- > - Delete 2 popular champions Champions that should have never been created in the first place and need to be deleted. > - Actual majority of people flood the devs with complaints > - "Hey at least those 10 people who upvoted the anti pyke threads will be on my side" There are way more than 10 dude. > - Revert Runes and masteries > -**Acts suprised when that doesnt really fix anything** *Acts surprised when the game actually is better than the shit it's been the past 3 years** That will be YOU > - Watch as you alienate the majority of your playerbase based off a forums minority Haha watch as I and the MAJORITY will be happy as the game we love gets back to the glorious form it used to be.
> Actually all the mains buy the skins, then play the champ with that skin, therefore increasing popularity and designers are then payed accordingly. Okay, and less mains > less people playing on that champ > Less people buy that skin > less people show off said skin. No one mains a champion based on what legendary skin that champion got, and if there are people like that, they are in the extreme minority > Champions that should have never been created in the first place and need to be deleted. Subjective, and many people like them, what about the people who bought skins for them? will you refund them all with their money? so, losing players AND losing money, and if you dont refund the money, you'll create further outrage. Much more outrage than a few rant threads on these champs > There are way more than 10 dude. Probably, there are also probably way more who prefer if a champion wont get deleted just because they are annoyed with it, but then again, you know better right? > Acts surprised when the game actually is better than the shit it's been the past 3 years* That will be YOU You mean back to league of thunderlord? League of courage of the colossus? League of ferevor? League of Warlord's bloodlust? You mean back when i had to buy IP boosters just to stay competetive so i wont be at a disadvantage because i had to choose between buying champs, or buy runes that directly effect how strong my early game is? yea i loved grinding games just to get 1 quint for the IP worth of almost 3 cheap champions. > Haha watch as I and the MAJORITY will be happy as the game we love gets back to the glorious form it used to be. Rose tinted glasses.
: If I won the lottery and bought Tencent out....
- Release skins for unpopular champions - Nobody buys those skins because they are for unpopular champions, skin designers get a cut off their paycheck - "Hey, at least i got a few positive threads on an online forum" - Delete 2 popular champions - Actual majority of people flood the devs with complaints - "Hey at least those 10 people who upvoted the anti pyke threads will be on my side" - Revert Runes and masteries -**Acts suprised when that doesnt really fix anything** - Watch as you alienate the majority of your playerbase based off a forums minority
Eyesack (NA)
: Games literally end at 5 minutes.
Nah, they really arent, they do end in 5 minutes with THAT attitiude tho.
: It's amazing how players get to plat without knowing how to play around a Kayle
That's because most people dont wanna sit under their turret for 20 minutes waiting for you to scale and have fun, hoping you can actually carry and not just get focused on because your entire team had to play super safe for you.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=dNsNNHW3,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-25T14:41:27.790+0000) > > I got like, 2 legendary skins without spending a cent on keys/crates , i re-roll 520 RP worth of skins and disenchant anything 720+, i had enough OE to unlock Project Ashe, Pulsefire Cait and a bunch of epic skins and the occasional low tier one from rerolls. > > It's not suppose to be easy for you to unlock legendary skins. Legendary and Ultimate autoredeem now. Theyre free.
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=dNsNNHW3,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-08-25T14:53:28.522+0000) > > Legendary and Ultimate autoredeem now. Theyre free. Well, from what OP said : > i have 2 legendary skin shards sitting in my inventory So either he's lying, or i just mixed up the names, anyway, i got plenty of high tier skins with OE, which were my point
Neriticc (EUW)
: "Tristana is balanced."
> Stands there with 700 range right clicking everything down. Only level 18 and not 700 range. > Gets 110% free attack speed just for pressing a button, that is the same as Hail of Blades. Is it really free if it: costs mana, has CD and is literally taking a skill slot? > Has free pushing and waveclear power. Im starting to think you dont know what "free" means The only legit problem with Tristana is her resets, no adc with that much safety should also have a resetable long range jump that can be used both offensivly (slows target) and defensively (can ignore CC if buffered right like EZ), add to that mulitple ways to reset with - kills, assists and E charge - and you get assassin level mobility on a marksmen who doesnt need THAT much safety. My only issue with tristana.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Does anyone actually get enough orange essence to redeem skins?
I got like, 2 legendary skins without spending a cent on keys/crates , i re-roll 520 RP worth of skins and disenchant anything 720+, i had enough OE to unlock Project Ashe, Pulsefire Cait and a bunch of epic skins and the occasional low tier one from rerolls. It's not suppose to be easy for you to unlock legendary skins.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Can't say it's not true, U.GG updates daily, so it's not unheard of shifts like that. Few weeks back, from U.GG, he had no negative winrates, as in, nothing under 50.5% in all ranks from Iron to Challenger, his Challenger at the time being 62%.
Didnt know it updates daily, but good to learn.
Srbonator (EUNE)
: Which lane feeds in your ranked games?
Mid. Nothing like seeing an enemy Zed or Kata and knowing that if my midlaner fucks up once, im not gonna play the game anymore (as an adc)
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Zed last I checked a few days ago had an ~56% wr in Bronze and Iron, so he clearly is an overpower pick there.
Close, he actually rocks a solid [48%](https://u.gg/lol/champions/zed/build?rank=bronze) in bronze and a [54%](https://u.gg/lol/champions/zed/build?rank=iron) in iron, which sound crazy, but then you see it's because for some reason it only counted 238 games in iron (strange)
: The new ADC better be immobile or at least not Kai'sa
Just give me another marksmen with an ammo system, {{champion:104}} and {{champion:202}} are my favorite marksmen in the game.
: actually i gave up on my full armor build after building glacial shroud yes i did look at my armor lvls after the game ended 187 armor. i had conditioning before selling i had 207. whats a specialist exactly? is he the only unique in that role? 207 when i died is basically 2 lifebars of effective health theres a video evidence on stacking armor/MR.
In the end of the day, you had 1 armor item vs 5 AD players, to make it worse {{item:3742}} has one of the more "offensive" passives, when other armor items like {{item:3143}} {{item:3110}} {{item:3075}} give better armor and great passives to further reduce the DPS of your enemies, Xayah had 100% crit chance, randuins would reduce her every auto attack by 20%, ninja tabi by 10%, together Xayah would do 30% less AA damage JUST from your passives, not including the 15% AS reduction aswell. Imagine having {{item:3143}} and {{item:3110}}, Xin, Xayah and Kai'sa (all who rely on spamming auto attacks) would do 10% to 30% less AA damage ( depending on if they crit) and will have their attack speed reduced by 30% ! that's almost enough to reduce all the attack speed from {{item:3006}} . > whats a specialist exactly? is he the only unique in that role? No, there are others like him, GP for example, or Graves, fiddle, etc... it's champions who dont really fit any archetype, Cho'gath is really slow like a Juggernaut, but has no real sustain or defensive steroids, he plays like a mage with the kit of a tank. From the wiki: "Specialists are a diverse group of champions who do not "fit into a neat little box" in regards to other class/subclass specifications." When i go top i sometimes go Ornn myself, i dont even go against full AD, but if i do, i can tank for a long time, but i have to play it well, being tank isnt just about standing there taking damage, if you spread your CC, have back up from your team and build right, you can tank a LOT more than 5 seconds in team fights, but it would be silly to think a Cho'gath can tank for more than 5 seconds with only {{item:3047}} and {{item:3742}} as his defensive items.
: why isnt armor reworked???
While i agree damage is too strong, in that game you had: {{item:3742}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3047}} , and were building further AP before the game ended, so only 1 major armor item and boots, with a health item. Enemy team had 2 adcs, 1 of them kai'sa who does mixed damage ( and is too strong at the moment IMO) and a Xin who deals good DPS. 5 seconds against a team with 2 marksmen with 4 completed items (Xayah had {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3094}} ) is quite a lot to tank for Cho'gath who has no real teamfight tanking abilities, he's more of a specialist rather than an actual Juggernaut if i recall correctly. Again, agree with your point to an extent, but your specific case isnt really a good example.
: Alright, fine, I'll play you're little game even though it will be a colossal waste of my time. I can tell you've already made up your mind, since you went on a post that essentially says "Stop telling us to stop giving feedback, we deserve to be listened to" and commented "no." I don't have any reason to respond to you. I'm not "proving your point" by refusing to entertain conversation with someone who shoves words into my mouth, refuses to read what I've said, and calls anything that isn't agreement "whining." But I will anyway, because I have nothing else going on in my life and technically I'll reach my daily writing quota of 500 words by arguing with you. --- >Feedback is fine, most feedback here isnt actualy "feedback" as much as rants and whining, people going full conspiracy theorists, or just here with reactionary unhelpfull rant threads. This is wrong on multiple levels. First of all... So? Should we dismiss every single post and comment on an entire forum just because some people go on rants? People who go on rants usually do it for a reason. Is someone ranting about Shaco being OP, when statistically he's not? Are they just some whiny child? Maybe. But maybe it could be that shaco is frustrating game design. Dismissing someone entirely just because it's a "rant" is wrong. It's at least worth considering, for half a second, why they're making the rant post. And, if lots of people are making rant posts about a particular thing, maybe they aren't all salty kids. Maybe something is wrong. In addition, just because it's a rant doesn't mean it's wrong (but that doesn't mean all rants are right). Let's say Riven is 100% OP, Like, 60% winrate, 20% playrate, and 80% banrate OP. If someone makes a rant post about her being OP, are they wrong because it's a rant post? Is Riven not OP just because someone is ranting about it? I mean, sure, a post like "omg riot you keep putting me with feeders" probably doesn't have much value, but that doesn't mean *all* posts should be dismissed. That doesn't mean that every single post on the forums should be blocked and ignored. And it's not just pure-rant posts that are getting these negative, non-helpful comments. Almost every single thread about eternals has at least one guy going "the boards are just a minority," "the boards are just salty whiners," "the boards don't mean anything," etc. Even "high quality" posts that outline specific reasons why people are unhappy with eternals and propose solutions are getting these worthless comments. It is also unreasonable to expect a community composed primarily of younger kids and teens to be able to provide only "well thought out feedback." Of course the forums for a free game populated by a younger demographic will be swimming in entirely helpful feedback. But again, dismissing all of it because of rant posts is WRONG. Now if you were to actually read my post instead of straw-manning me, you would understand this. >If people think that something is wrong, there's a good chance that something could be wrong. That doesn't mean that there 100% definitely is something wrong and that doesn't mean that we're right about what is wrong, though. We are here to provide feedback and, when riot completely ignores said feedback, it is not out of the realm of reason for us to be angry. --- >>In addition, just because the forums is small doesn't mean we should be ignored. The forums aren't a vacuum, we aren't a bunch of die-hard complainers who have no idea how the game works and have no relation to actual players of the game. >**Disagree, people are more inclined to come to the forums to complain,** when someone is enjoying the game they have no reason to come here and create a thread "wow! just had a fun balanced match, thanks for the matchmaking Riot!", no, it's always "Can we talk about how i lost to X last match?" with a thread full of pointless emotional words and the comment section is just shit slinging between OP and people who either agree or disagree with him. I don't even want to reply to this paragraph because it's just "boards sucks, there's nothing positive to gain here." There's no arguing with a line of thinking that is completely wrong, as it is founded outside of reason. I will respond to the bolded part though, because it actually provides something of substance. It takes a galaxy-sized brain to think "are people complaining because something is wrong? No, they're complaining just for the sake of complaining! There is nothing wrong!" No one is arguing that the forums are a perfect cross section of the playerbase. No one is arguing that. We are still average players and we are still playing the same game as everyone else. Just because "the only reason why people come here is to complain" doesn't mean what we say is wrong, shouldn't be listened to, and/or has zero value. --- >It's always amusing tho, threads like "Nice MM Riot, putting me with G3 on my plat promo" then you see the match history and the G3 has 70% WR while OP is at sub 50% WR struggeling to keep his MMR, but of course, the guy making that thread wont admit he's not good enough, he'll die defending how nothing is ever his fault. Okay? And? Those posts almost always die in the new section because people see through them and know that they are complete bullshit. Who is defending these rants? --- >Ahhh, thanks for making my point. Makes a thread to create discussions, first response that is not alligned with your opinion " i literally do not care what you say." then you scream and whine why Riot doesnt take your "feedback" seriously. "this is a place for feedback, if you are going to spend your time telling people to stop leaving feedback, you can leave." "no" "lul okay, i'm not going to argue with you" "THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT" that's essentially the exchange that just happened. >I did read your thread, you're the one who should actual read MY comment, if you didnt take the time to understand what my point is, if you dont care what anyone says, then why create a discussion? you want me to circlejerk with you? You're point is bad. Your point is "what I consider to be real, true feedback is the only feedback that should be listened to. Also, the boards are worthless because they're a minority." --- tHaNkS fOR pRoVInG My PoInT.
Okay you're obviously unhinged and really really triggered, judging by the essay you wrote to me, but i'll respond. > It takes a galaxy-sized brain to think "are people complaining because something is wrong? No, they're complaining just for the sake of complaining! There is nothing wrong!" You didnt get the point, the forums will always be filled with complaints, very often, they will offer very little in the way of actual critisism, because people are mostly reactionary, the game even at the peak of it's popularity was filled with complaints, complaints are fine, talking as if you're the representetive of the community isnt, and these are the threads where you see the sort of comments you complain about. > Okay? And? Those posts almost always die in the new section because people see through them and know that they are complete bullshit. Who is defending these rants? Did you see the front page? one of the most popular threads starts with this sentence: "WE DO NOT WANT ETERNALS. There ya go. We just don't want them." i want eternals, i think they're cool, i used to buy them in other games, i'll probably snatch one myself, i know others who will too, you dont see them come to the boards create threads, so sometimes you need people to remind them that "we" isnt really "we", it's you. > You're point is bad. Your point is "what I consider to be real, true feedback is the only feedback that should be listened to. Also, the boards are worthless because they're a minority." I never said any of that lol, you're twisting what i said in my original thread, probably because you started your reply with "i literally do not care what you say." which you also didnt understand why you proved my point so well. You saw i didnt agree with your opinion, and you "dont care what i say", you want people to jerk you off and tell you how right you are, thats why every comment here that disagreed with you, was straight away downvoted, **you're the reason the boards are shit, people like you who are reactionary, dont take feedback THEMSELVES, and refuse to budge from their opinion no matter what and twist other people's response to fit into your strawman** If you literally cant take feedback yourself to the point where you say "I LITERALLY DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY" then why should RIOT take your feedback?
: neither of you read my post, did you? i literally do not care what you say. the forums are here for feedback, we are giving feedback. I am not sure how that is impossible for you to understand. >It's always amusing tho, threads like "Nice MM Riot, putting me with G3 on my plat promo" then you see the match history and the G3 has 70% WR while OP is at sub 50% WR struggeling to keep his MMR, but of course, the guy making that thread wont admit he's not good enough, he'll die defending how nothing is ever his fault. when posts like "riot, why are you not listening to us about eternals" are getting spammed with "the boards don't know anything, the boards are just a minority" it's a problem. No one is trying to defend idiots who should be using the rant sub-board. Don't comment "but not everything here is feedback" when I've already said that the boards shouldn't be listened to 100% of the time.
> neither of you read my post, did you? i literally do not care what you say. the forums are here for feedback, we are giving feedback. I am not sure how that is impossible for you to understand. Ahhh, thanks for making my point. Makes a thread to create discussions, first response that is not alligned with your opinion " i literally do not care what you say." then you scream and whine why Riot doesnt take your "feedback" seriously. I did read your thread, you're the one who should actualy read MY comment, if you didnt take the time to understand what my point is, if you dont care what anyone says, then why create a discussion? you want me to circlejerk with you?
: Look, if you're going to comment "the boards don't matter", 'you're just here to complain",
Feedback is fine, most feedback here isnt actualy "feedback" as much as rants and whining, people going full conspiracy theorists, or just here with reactionary unhelpfull rant threads. > In addition, just because the forums is small doesn't mean we should be ignored. The forums aren't a vacuum, we aren't a bunch of die-hard complainers who have no idea how the game works and have no relation to actual players of the game. Disagree, people are more inclined to come to the forums to complain, when someone is enjoying the game they have no reason to come here and create a thread "wow! just had a fun balanced match, thanks for the matchmaking Riot!", no, it's always "Can we talk about how i lost to X last match?" with a thread full of pointless emotional words and the comment section is just shit slinging between OP and people who either agree or disagree with him. It's always amusing tho, threads like "Nice MM Riot, putting me with G3 on my plat promo" then you see the match history and the G3 has 70% WR while OP is at sub 50% WR struggeling to keep his MMR, but of course, the guy making that thread wont admit he's not good enough, he'll die defending how nothing is ever his fault.
: Are people really surprised that Riot didn't care about our opinion on Eternals?
> They don't give a shit at all about their players, and only cares about money. Welcome to capitlist America, Gaming companies arent your friends, and will never will. IDK what's disgusting about charging for a stat tracker when every game with one does it, the major ones at least, it's cosmetic fluff that has no effect, they changed parts of it so you can buy it with BE and reduced the price of RP, but i forgot this is the same community that cries and whines because they arent guranteed skins in their hextech crates.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=n1eRkfwN,comment-id=000b0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T13:24:07.657+0000) > > It does not effect gameplay, it's related, but it's not, it's cosmetic fluff. It is still dictated almost entirely by gameplay. That is what makes it different from "cosmetic fluff" of skins, emotes and chromas. > Said who? Like i said, if you dont think it's worth it, vote with your wallet, im not here to tell you "it's worth it! BUY IT YOU CHEAP BASTARD" im just saying there is no foul play in monetizing these sort of things, it gives the player buying it "bragging rights" just like a skin would, like i said, stat trackers for guns/characters are monetized in many other games, i get that it would be nice if these were free, but i also understand the reality of capitalism and business making, im sure you'd like to paid for a product you made and wouldnt work for free, dont act like you woulldnt. I would remember that the party that needs to be appeased first is not the fucking shareholders. Shareholders get less money when the actual source of money, the customers, aren't happy. Businesses that abuse their cash cows don't get to milk them as long.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=n1eRkfwN,comment-id=000b00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T13:30:01.734+0000) > Businesses that abuse their cash cows don't get to milk them as long. Totally valid point, which will be dictated by how many people think the product is worth the money, if not enough people are happy with the product, JUST LIKE CHROMAS, the product will be changed, either with pricing or in quality. Also, gonna hijack your reply to another dude > Why should I be told "if you're truly serious, you'll pay us money"? My answer to that is "fuck you, Riot". No one is telling you that, just like no one is telling you "If you're truly serious about MF, you'll buy her ultimate skin", there is 0 pressure on you to purchase it, other than the pressure you put on yourself to "prove" others you're a MF main, which the mastery points show clear enough.
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=n1eRkfwN,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T12:19:26.485+0000) > > They could, but they dont have to, they are a business, not a charity. > As much as we'd like to pretend game developers are doing this through the kindness of their hearts, they dont, they are not pretending to be nice, they lowered the price AND made some of them purchaseable with your BE due to feedback not because they had a change of heart. Wanna why I'm of the belief they're only pretending? They only reworked death recap recently, still failing to uphold their promises on clarity in a few regards. They had their originally advertised price so exorbitantly high it seemed designed for immediate backlash. Their current version is still pricey and still not really available for free. > This is 1:1 the same as skins, emotes and ward skins, cosmetic fluff to show off your champion, it WOULD be nice to get for free, but i wont hold it against a company to monetize these sorts of things when the game itself is free and gets constant free updates. It is not 1:1 on skins, emotes or icons. None of those are affected by gameplay. Mastery is the only thing it's 1:1 on and it's a paid upgrade to the existing system. It's almost akin to buying an increased level cap in DLC, but the DLC doesn't actually include anything else and those levels don't actually confer any bonuses. > You're a customer, you always will be, Riot or any other gaming company arent our friends, sometimes they go to far (loot boxes in full priced games, overpriced items) and they should be called out, but complaining about not getting stuff for free is entitlment IMO. Mastery and gameplay related achievements should ALWAYS be free. I should not be required to pay to unlock gameplay related tracking. > Vote with your wallet, a great example of that from LEAUGE itself, is chormas. > Remember when they were first released? just shitty drab basic colours with no real charm or effort, no one bought them, people complained, once Riot realised that product is bad, they upgraded them, made them better colours, changed the model a bit, made them more unique, now we got a better product. This is still magnitudes worse than Chromas. It's tied into a system that's solely focused around gameplay and STILL has a paywall.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=n1eRkfwN,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T13:06:52.050+0000) > > Wanna why I'm of the belief they're only pretending? > > They only reworked death recap recently, still failing to uphold their promises on clarity in a few regards. > They had their originally advertised price so exorbitantly high it seemed designed for immediate backlash. > Their current version is still pricey and still not really available for free. > > It is not 1:1 on skins, emotes or icons. None of those are affected by gameplay. Mastery is the only thing it's 1:1 on and it's a paid upgrade to the existing system. It's almost akin to buying an increased level cap in DLC, but the DLC doesn't actually include anything else and those levels don't actually confer any bonuses. > > Mastery and gameplay related achievements should ALWAYS be free. I should not be required to pay to unlock gameplay related tracking. > > This is still magnitudes worse than Chromas. It's tied into a system that's solely focused around gameplay and STILL has a paywall. It does not effect gameplay, it's related, but it's not, it's cosmetic fluff. > Mastery and gameplay related achievements should ALWAYS be free. I should not be required to pay to unlock gameplay related tracking. Said who? Like i said, if you dont think it's worth it, vote with your wallet, im not here to tell you "it's worth it! BUY IT YOU CHEAP BASTARD" im just saying there is no foul play in monetizing these sort of things, it gives the player buying it "bragging rights" just like a skin would, like i said, stat trackers for guns/characters are monetized in many other games, i get that it would be nice if these were free, but i also understand the reality of capitalism and business making, im sure you'd like to paid for a product you made and wouldnt work for free, dont act like you woulldnt.
Nazgul10 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=tlwjEJJv,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T11:13:38.264+0000) > > you're doing the same thing, your hypocracy or lack of understanding is really confusing to me. > People will waste their money on what they see is worth it, flaming someone for purchasing something you dont think is worth it wont solve anything, and the person you flame wont give a shit, cause you'll be the one who comes out as a sad person. > Vote with your wallet, leave other people out of it Doing what same thing? I already said I don't care if I'm sad or not, and I also don't care if they don't give a shit about it. I'll be happy if I call them out, and they at the very least see and realise what they did. It's not like I'm the only one thinking it's not worth. Eternals are objectively a scam and they shouldn't exist. As long as I can save other people from wasting THEIR money on a scam I will be satisfied.
> [{quoted}](name=Nazgul10,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=tlwjEJJv,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T12:35:40.988+0000) > > Doing what same thing? > > I already said I don't care if I'm sad or not, and I also don't care if they don't give a shit about it. I'll be happy if I call them out, and they at the very least see and realise what they did. > > It's not like I'm the only one thinking it's not worth. Eternals are objectively a scam and they shouldn't exist. As long as I can save other people from wasting THEIR money on a scam I will be satisfied. Then do so in a way that isnt "im gonna flame anyone who bought something i disagree with", making good points on why it's not worth it is infinitly better to stop people from buying it in the first place over just sounding bitter, no one takes flamers seriously because you come out as unhinged > Doing what same thing? Flaming someone for their purchase, just like people flame others for their skin, you flame others for their eternals, same concept.
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JackMcCarry

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