Kloqdq (NA)
: You cannot be banned for off-meta nor was it the reason you were banned. I am almost 100% sure you did not get banned because you pick smite tp and go tank zyra (Even though that does look like you are trolling). Now you were either punished for some other reason or it was a mistake. Just get a support ticket and ask them to look over your account. if you didn't flame or anything I don't see you being fairly punished. Now making this post ain't getting you any points with people and frankly your smite, tp is kind of troll-ish but you don't look like you are just hard trolling on paper.
> [{quoted}](name=Kloqdq,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-11-08T19:05:15.580+0000) > > You cannot be banned for off-meta nor was it the reason you were banned. I am almost 100% sure you did not get banned because you pick smite tp and go tank zyra (Even though that does look like you are trolling). Now you were either punished for some other reason or it was a mistake. Just get a support ticket and ask them to look over your account. if you didn't flame or anything I don't see you being fairly punished. Tell it to the AdelaineSKyhart. Her punishment was due off-meta. All accusations were proven false, but punishment was correct. That sentence is logically as solid as Donald Trump. > Now making this post ain't getting you any points with people and frankly your smite, tp is kind of troll-ish but you don't look like you are just hard trolling on paper. Technically I am banned for trolling, and as Riot does not care why I am reported as long I am reported, thus I get punished. This was said aloud by developer giving us the final words of AdelaineSkyhart case.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kartagia,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-07T08:49:02.856+0000) > I got 14 day suspension due trolling again as off-meta supporting No, you didn't. Post your reform card, in its entirety.
> [{quoted}](name=Doc Robot,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-11-08T06:42:17.273+0000) > > No, you didn't. Post your reform card, in its entirety. I am sorry, but I have never got single reform card. RIot has never sent me one, not once. Not even after I ask support to send it. And support ignores the issue totally, as I apparently have no right for reform cards.
: > ...as my skill would not determine anything. All would depend on adc skill. This is the biggest fallacy I see from bad/hardstuck support players. The idea that supports can't carry and are exclusively at the whim of the ADC they get placed with is completely false. Do you think challenger support players got there because they are luckier than you? Do you think I have a nearly 60% win rate on support Nautilus because Riot matches me with good adcs more than you? No, if you are winning lane with a bad adc, rotate and get kills mid, get deep vision, secure drakes and snowball your lead. >Flash have not been good thing to save Zyra since she was implemented If you don't understand why flash is useful on 99% of champs 99% of the time then you have a lot to learn about league. You are B4 with over 700 games played, if you don't think what you are doing is any part of why you are hard stuck, you will stay hard stuck. That's just a fact. If you want to play zyra support, fine its perfectly viable. Start {{item:3303}} and go from there, get gold for poking and harassing in lane. Take {{summoner:4}} to get yourself out of sticky situations and {{summoner:14}} to secure kills, {{summoner:11}} doesn't do anything in lane and unless you are using {{summoner:12}} to exert map pressure it's not worth taking. Upgrade your {{item:3341}} to {{item:3364}} when you hit lvl9 it is just a better version of the same item. Get {{item:1001}} and actually upgrade them to either {{item:3117}} or {{item:3020}}.
> [{quoted}](name=SavageConcordia,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2017-11-07T20:16:09.169+0000) > > This is the biggest fallacy I see from bad/hardstuck support players. The idea that supports can't carry and are exclusively at the whim of the ADC they get placed with is completely false. Do you think challenger support players got there because they are luckier than you? Do you think I have a nearly 60% win rate on support Nautilus because Riot matches me with good adcs more than you? No, if you are winning lane with a bad adc, rotate and get kills mid, get deep vision, secure drakes and snowball your lead. > > If you don't understand why flash is useful on 99% of champs 99% of the time then you have a lot to learn about league. You are B4 with over 700 games played, if you don't think what you are doing is any part of why you are hard stuck, you will stay hard stuck. That's just a fact. Flash is useful for aggressive high reflex play. There is other ways to play this game. I play less reflex-oriented tanky game. I know I cannot get past gold ever due Riot is enhancing high reflex play season after season, as majority wants that. It is really sad, as strength of League of Legends was the fact you can play with several play styles. Community and Riot has done all they can to ruin this at the same time when older player left the game getting pissed due toxic youngsters attacking them for not playing the way which is not actually optimal but appears to be optimal. It is also abundant that people believe that only LCS can alter the game tactics while they cannot even ward. If people would really copy LCS play, map would be full of wards. > If you want to play zyra support, fine its perfectly viable. Start {{item:3303}} and go from there, get gold for poking and harassing in lane. Take {{summoner:4}} to get yourself out of sticky situations and {{summoner:14}} to secure kills, {{summoner:11}} doesn't do anything in lane and unless you are using {{summoner:12}} to exert map pressure it's not worth taking. Upgrade your {{item:3341}} to {{item:3364}} when you hit lvl9 it is just a better version of the same item. Get {{item:1001}} and actually upgrade them to either {{item:3117}} or {{item:3020}}. Actually smite does things on lane. First: it allows me **defend lane when my adc does suicide chase after wounded enemy**. It allows me more reliable use of relic shield. Smite does work on lane minions too. And I use tp to go where I am needed as I am support of team not support of adc. And what if I go with tanky support staying on lane? I got all the time argued that relic shield is not good while in my experience using factual stats of the game, relic shield heal is way more than heal spell. I am sorry, but you are normal player who can only think damage and score and kills. I suggest you start using **all essential variables like time on lane, damage you can soak, damage you can deal while alive**. Most zyra players use what you describe - the mage zyra, and thus cannot play the other aspect of Zyra. Reason why ZYra is not good mid, but actually support, is the fact he is dualistic. Zyra has both burst and over time aspects. Most players ignore latter, as using it requires careful defensive play. Latter is also very hard to evaluate. And zyra is only mediocre burst mage. She is really good for support as she can do both burst and over time. By the way I start playing Zyra as support after 2nd game as she is not very good mid, 1 week before LCS did it and Riot moved Zyra to support slot. On season 7 for some reason Riot moved ZYra back to mid without really doing anything justify it. Zyra is still only mediocre mid.
: I wasn't going to be the one to bring this up last night when I was reviewing his match history, but since it's already been brought up, I'm going to strongly agree. The reason the adcs are getting mad is because those summoner spells are causing you (OP) to die. ALOT. You are getting caught so many times in your matches because you are not building boots. It means you cannot run away from someone chasing you, and you cannot chase someone who is running away from you to secure a kill. You cannot flash over walls to secure objectives and make plays. Hell, if you're trying to build a damage Zyra build, you NEED Sorc shoes, otherwise they will be negating at least half your damage by the time they finish their first MR item, if not more, depending on their runes and masteries. ADCs are also going to get mad with a Zyra support that ends up taking that many cs. If you are taking the normal procs of relic shield, and securing major objectives like dragon, baron and rift herald, you shouldn't be outfarming your jungler and almost having as many cs as your adc. But when you do, it means you're probably taking too many cs in lane. Not to mention, if you are using your spells to get the procs, rather than trying to last hit the minions, you will end up messing up the waves and making it harder for your adc to last hit.
> [{quoted}](name=VentressRedeemed,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-07T21:20:43.319+0000) > > I wasn't going to be the one to bring this up last night when I was reviewing his match history, but since it's already been brought up, I'm going to strongly agree. > > The reason the adcs are getting mad is because those summoner spells are causing you (OP) to die. ALOT. You are getting caught so many times in your matches because you are not building boots. It means you cannot run away from someone chasing you, and you cannot chase someone who is running away from you to secure a kill. You cannot flash over walls to secure objectives and make plays. Hell, if you're trying to build a damage Zyra build, you NEED Sorc shoes, otherwise they will be negating at least half your damage by the time they finish their first MR item, if not more, depending on their runes and masteries. Actually I do not need sorcerer shoes as my damage is based on poking and staying on lane slowly hurting enemies. I do not need sorc. shoes and I do still usually deal most damage to enemy champs. I suggest you start thinking with all variables including time. Most players only use burst damage optimization. My plants deal damage after I die in team fights. My build is late/mid game build, as I refuse to devolve to early game all game mentality of post-season 3 community. Most players have no idea what mid and late game mean. Check my damage output on game stats as you checked my score. Start using FACTS instead of Community Score Fiction. Score is nothing. It proves nothing. It does not even tell how much gold you gave to enemy as it does not separate executed deaths with no gold value to enemy, nor does it count reduced gold gain from chain of deaths without kills, nor does it count killing sprees. The fact which hurt most players who start after season 1 is the fact 5/5/0 is more likely given enemy way more gold than 0/5/5. If we assume normal bronze adc who goes 1 kill and die, then 5/5/0 is 5 full value deaths, while 0/5/5 is 1 full value and 4 reduced value deaths. YOu should be able to do the math even with American education system. No, you do not. I challenge you to play with me. I have to play enough on NA alt to get Zyra and prove you wrong. Only platinum who ever accepted this challenge agreed I truly have bad luck with team mates. THe adc did go int feeding for relic shield stack use. Most of the time the reason why Adc go mad is delusion that creep on support is stolen. > ADCs are also going to get mad with a Zyra support that ends up taking that many cs. If you are taking the normal procs of relic shield, and securing major objectives like dragon, baron and rift herald, you shouldn't be outfarming your jungler and almost having as many cs as your adc. But when you do, it means you're probably taking too many cs in lane. Not to mention, if you are using your spells to get the procs, rather than trying to last hit the minions, you will end up messing up the waves and making it harder for your adc to last hit. I do also take creeps if adc won't. It is sad how few adcs defend tower. I do also farm when adc is back, as tower has to be defended. And you cannot believe how often adc goes amok on relic shield use only. Honestly, there should not be single rule that adc has right for all farm. That rule is silly as is common belief that tanks or supports should not take kills. TEll me, where in Summoner's code it says support cannot take occasional farm? Ah forgot. Summoern's code has never been followed by adc players. Actually those spells would not cause me to die once. I suggest you watch match reviews, not end results, and assess my team mate results. End results are caused by me dying when trying to defend towers against well fed enemies. I
: Okay, as a support main, show the logs or the inting notice.
> [{quoted}](name=LukeTheSheppy,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-11-07T09:09:26.297+0000) > > Okay, as a support main, show the logs or the inting notice. I cannot show it. RIot has never sent me them nor anything but popup. I have asked them, but they have never given me those chat logs, or notice except that popup. ANd those popups come withing seconds after game ends, which means nobody has checked anything at all. This was the proof that no human is involved. Support states they cannot do anything to punishments and would not review anything in context as context does not matter in English. I am sorry, but there is not a single academic of English agreeing with them.
: You can try new things now. The problem isn't that you are trying something new. It's that you are trying it, and it's not working. Your win rate, and KDA are proving that. Which is why your teammates are getting very angry with you. When you choose to build off-meta, and then proceed to feed that badly over that many games, it stops becoming "trying new things" and becomes trolling across hundreds of games. Hundreds of games = thousands of angry players = hundreds of reports.
> [{quoted}](name=VentressRedeemed,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2017-11-07T21:31:40.584+0000) > > You can try new things now. The problem isn't that you are trying something new. It's that you are trying it, and it's not working. Your win rate, and KDA are proving that. Which is why your teammates are getting very angry with you. When you choose to build off-meta, and then proceed to feed that badly over that many games, it stops becoming "trying new things" and becomes trolling across hundreds of games. Hundreds of games = thousands of angry players = hundreds of reports. I am sorry, but K/DA proves nothing. K/D/A contains no objective of the game. And did you check every game who lost the game by watching the game events, not just end score? I doubt that. You are blaming me for every loss, regardless the fact I stated out that adcs are throwing the game due my spells. That is violation of summoner's code, not my spells. Go check game events of every single game to see I really did not lose most of those games, but that you would not do, as it would prove you wrong. When top is 0/5/0 in 3 minutes, how it is my fault to lose the game when that top come to bash every other lane? Again you use end score without context as it is the way of the toxic community. You measure team game by personal K/D/A which contains not a single objective, and only describes one minor side of pvp. And it focus on fact you should not die, which is not true. I have won most of my games due I do not hesitate to die for team, as game is team game first and foremost. And RIot have changed assist mechanics such way that my delaing 90% of damage to enemies but break of combat without any sensible understanding why, and I get no assist. Thus K/D/A tells nothing of the game. If you go to check the details, I deal 1st to 3rd most damage to enemy champions unless game is lost fast due some lane falling. My proof why my spells work: With these spells and jugnle change, I was able to climb ffrom brozne to silver. Then new season came and I won 7 out of 10 qualifiers with these spells, and got demoted from s4 to b4. Tell me how that is unsuccessful? Trolling mean I am not doing my best to win? I am, but community is not, as they focus on kills which more often ruin the game than win it. I have seen so many games lost due 22/9 combat player losing it as he continues go go after kills instead of pushing or defending.
: What? So, then there'd be 4 on each side? That's not going to do anything.. You weren't banned for being off meta. Yiure banned for your behavior.
> [{quoted}](name=Periscope,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-11-07T09:18:57.777+0000) > > What? So, then there'd be 4 on each side? That's not going to do anything.. > > You weren't banned for being off meta. Yiure banned for your behavior. And others behaving worse have not been banned or punished. Player who start attack on support just for the spells as support dared not to use spells he was told. Accusing that support would lose the lane: I have seen such players for thousands of games, and I won't go to their lane as they *will ensure I will lose the lane by feeding me to enemy*. Adc players does not get it they have to play duo lane too. The Aritficial Stupdity System has been designed for totally wrong context, as the game context should be non-native speakers using combat talk in high intensity and tension environment. Those who get away with behavior use this as reason why system works as they can do it without being punished, as everybody has bad game. What if I see most of the games as bad games when mid and adc starts attack me due they do not want to see any other way of playing than their way. For some reason adc and mid has right to tell support what to do, and call support troll if they do not obey, but support cannot give any suggestion to them.
: Support main since season 3 here. I don't have a problem with the way supports are treated now. I don't think it's the summoner spells that they have a problem with hon, so much as your results of those spells/builds on that particular champion.
> [{quoted}](name=VentressRedeemed,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2017-11-07T09:24:17.960+0000) > > Support main since season 3 here. I don't have a problem with the way supports are treated now. I don't think it's the summoner spells that they have a problem with hon, so much as your results of those spells/builds on that particular champion. And those results are really functional, as I have not switched to other spells. The problem is that people have strong association smite is only useful for jungle, and cannot grasp new smite is usable even on lane. They do also think it is not useful as you do not get execute without thinking that ranged champion does not need execute as shield can be used way more safe way. Execute is there to allow melees do downing of minion with less risk, as they have to go into risky position vs. ranged opponent to use relic shield. The problem is people in EUNE hate to think. They do really hate it. ANd main reason is really the fact I am not doing as I am told. You have to understand Slavic mentality. it is total macho. The culture is focused allowing strong to abuse the weak. If you are seen weak, you have no rights. This is the reason why Russian and Soviet politicians never admit they are wrong, and act like buffoons. And EUNE mentality is equal to Russian, or Trump, diplomacy. You Americans have at the moment perfect example of Russian way of doing things as your president. Russian culture also emphasize on fact no agreement is binding unless you are forced to do it. You should always do all you can to get rid of responsibilities. This is the reason why I think D. Trump as one of the Illegals, deep cover KGB spies.
: You should learn how to play support.
> [{quoted}](name=SavageConcordia,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-11-07T14:12:26.076+0000) > > You should learn how to play support. AH. You mean I should learn to submit to the wishes of tactically unskilled and suicidal adcs, who feed and blame me anyway. I am sorry, but I did that for 3 seasons. Then I learn my lesson that such kind of play is not for me, as my skill would not determine anything. All would depend on adc skill. And the honest but blunt way to put average adc skill on tactics would be worst in the league. They have been pampered by Kill focused community to believe they have all rights, and support have right to obey. I did not use tp and smite before things changed tactically. The spells suggested to me, smite and exhaust, never worked well with me. You know, there is not one size fit all. That is why community forcing support into one size of shoes breaks summoner's code by disallowing supports to play the way they want and can best. I did not use smite before dragon changed into valuable team resource, and smite got two stacks. Before this change it was not worth it. Reason why ADCS hate me is the fact I use relic shield, and adcs apparently have right to ignore fact I heal them with last hits. Instead they can follow prejudice driven delusion that every creep on support is stolen regardless what happened in game. The community support this kind of delusional thinking. Flash have not been good thing to save Zyra since she was implemented as there was too many flashlike abilities, and everybody else has flash. I flash, they flash, I die. They flash, I flash, they flashlike, I die. Trust me... I do have tried *every single spell combination for at least 100 games with zyra*. HOw many times you have tried tp and smite? Ah, you have not, as ADC players know the art of supporting while they rage when they are autofilled to this lower status servant role. Tell me, how support should be played? Harass support has been valid option whole life of this game. Adcs do not like it as harass support take kills, which never belong to adc. Only local optimizer believe that adc should get all kills, as adc is squishiest role. That makes team really vulnerable, as adc taken down would hinder whole team. When you ignore personal biases, and look into game, you should notice best team would have even gold gain to all. That way death of single team mate would not matter too much.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: It's more that most supports didn't want to buy literally only wards. If Riot, in that stage of the game, literally removed all AP ratios (or other ways of scaling from stats) from typical supports, it would have changed just about nothing balance wise. When the most efficient strategy is not only (in most peoples' opinion) the most boring one but also one where an entire set of choices (items) **and** entire mechanics (AP ratios) are effectively removed then that is simply bad game design.
I did not want to buy them, but game was totally screwed when I could not do it, as lack of vision was worse problem than being forced to buy them. Sightstone helped, but then they ruined everything by removing early game warding from all but trinkets.
: Were you around back in season 2-3? When the meta really shifted into the abusive adc role? It's actually not that bad right now.
> [{quoted}](name=VentressRedeemed,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-11-07T09:20:15.820+0000) > > Were you around back in season 2-3? When the meta really shifted into the abusive adc role? It's actually not that bad right now. I start on season 1 when Ashe was main mid. I miss season 1 when people were let to try new things without massive flaming on them not playing like dps people say.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: One of my friends' proudest games was when he had network issues and a huge ping, raning between 3 seconds and 10 seconds. So since he was completely useless in lane, he decided to just issue commands to place wards all around the map, since that requires less reactive play. He still died kinda often since he'd ward the enemy jungle and then "wait" there forever. We managed to still win the game, due to the vision he provided. Which goes to show: Being a good support isn't about being a slave to the ADC... but being a good **player** means identifying how you can be the most useful to your team. Supports don't get forced into an non-fun playstyle by their teammates, they get forced by the state the game is in at that moment.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-07T09:57:21.712+0000) > > One of my friends' proudest games was when he had network issues and a huge ping, raning between 3 seconds and 10 seconds. So since he was completely useless in lane, he decided to just issue commands to place wards all around the map, since that requires less reactive play. He still died kinda often since he'd ward the enemy jungle and then "wait" there forever. > > We managed to still win the game, due to the vision he provided. And that gave good supports unfair advantage community did not like. Then Riot did decide to start following majority abuse on supports and remove support main duty - warding . Ward limit did came on season 3, but worst was season 6 removal of early game warding due "unfair advantage warding gives". But Riot blurted they do not want to change community opinion, but instead adapt to it. IT has been quite blatantly apparent on champion designs and the way support are treated i punishment system. The whole idea to force support to bottom lane was insanely stupid and limiting. But more players (adcs) wanted to have personal slave.
Tuplamela (EUW)
: I played Irelia support, did well. Got honored. Your pick is rarely the issue.
> [{quoted}](name=Tuplamela,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-07T08:56:15.426+0000) > > I played Irelia support, did well. Got honored. Your pick is rarely the issue. I do get honored quite often, but the problem is system puts more weight on reports than honors. I get honor every other game, but almost every game adc who does not like my summoner's spells as they do not focus totally for his kills reports me. Regardless how I play. EUNE has also way totally different attittude towards supports than EUW. I suggest you create EUNE account and play irelia support here. Learn the toxicity of macho disliking weaker roles trying to be their equals.
: YOu dont get a 14 day ban for offmeta. You get it for flaming or inting. So which was it in your case.
> [{quoted}](name=Timethief49,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0zioJQH8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-07T08:52:42.248+0000) > > YOu dont get a 14 day ban for offmeta. You get it for flaming or inting. So which was it in your case. Another player who does not play support is talking against supports to maintain current stance of supports.
Rioter Comments
C9 Kane (EUW)
: I got my friends account banned.
You broke eula. I hope Riot did keep their word and banned your accounts as well.
: he's right chat is far easier to detect wrong doings in than trolling "bad games" happen, spouting racial/homophobic slurs is a choice
> [{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=uiUsPlwt,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-07T07:17:05.668+0000) > > he's right chat is far easier to detect wrong doings in than trolling > "bad games" happen, spouting racial/homophobic slurs is a choice RIot has system which should detect it. And that guy did say easily detected phrase which Riot refuse to add to the list "permaban instantly". The words "You do not deserve the win". THey do also have data to do the figuring out trolling, but decide not to use it. If you can watch your game later, they have all data they need to do context sensitive seeking of trolling. But community does not condemn trolling. I think this is due majority of community are hacked accounts of pool of trolls enjoying losing games and getting people to rage.
: Why do they punish "toxic people" and not trolls
They do not touch trolls, as trolls have thousands of accounts and hacked computers of idiots thinking free RP exist, on their control. Riot touch real trolls, and they get DDoS of those souls who cannot grasp basics of network security. And it seems that in EUNE that block of morons is way more than 50% of players.
: I was permanently banned for being salty in just 1 game
I think RIot only bans those who are occasionally salty. Those who are all the tiem salty gets away with free. I reported games to Riot, and Riot did not have all the game logs, thus it is quite likely cheaters know how to stop logging of game. Even worse, if they can only stop their logging of game or destroy reports. or Riot has taken stance heavy cheaters are left alone due protection racket agreement and cheaters does not DDoS servers down.
Chermorg (NA)
: Just because you do not see action being taken does not mean action is not being taken. Further, Riot already has access to chat logs and replays - there is no reason you would need to access them or submit them to Riot. If you're concerned you left information out of your report or you forgot to report at endgame screen, you can submit a support ticket and they'll look into it. They do not, however, tell you what if any action was taken.
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=v8005xwq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-06T18:31:15.557+0000) > > Just because you do not see action being taken does not mean action is not being taken. Further, Riot already has access to chat logs and replays - there is no reason you would need to access them or submit them to Riot. > > If you're concerned you left information out of your report or you forgot to report at endgame screen, you can submit a support ticket and they'll look into it. They do not, however, tell you what if any action was taken. I suggest you seek out European sociological and scientific studies. IF victim does not see punishment at all, the damage done by bullies stays full in effect. Thus Riot is supporting bullying in all possible ways as there is no way to check their sincerity on "zero-tolerance" except watching op.gg to show players continue to play for months. That is not "zero-tolerance" but "zero-punishment". I am sorry, but the view "no naming or shaming" only protects wrongdoers if justice system uses it. No naming or shaming would work for forums if we had working way to report those guys to support. Artificial Stupidity System does not work at all. IMHO it seems to be word list system which is not even AI, but Riot con job. Honestly, RIot should start paying attention to things like this. The justice system should work like justice system. You get 14 day suspension during which you have trial. If you prove that you were wronged first, sentence is reduced, and wrongdoer is punished. Give people right to defend themselves, and take situation into account. I know this would not work, as it would require RIot games LLC to spend some money on maintaining summoner's code which they have not given a shit since DDoS attacks by those who violate it all the time. It is easier to submit to the protection racket.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kartagia,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3vZNVo3A,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2017-11-05T06:16:37.426+0000) > > If someone behaves such way he does not honor the code, he should not be protected that subset of code. This is how sensible justice systems work. Sure... hence why in a "sensible" justice system you are allowed to steal from thieves, murder murderers, set arsonist's houses on fire, rape rapists, etc. etc. I hear you are also totally allowed to do all that without that person being officially convicted of such a crime. Seriously, you are asking for Riot to effectively remove all protection for anybody, not just flamers. "Hmm... this guy is not buying a sightstone on a support, I feel like that disrespects me, better tell him to kill himself!" >RIot and USA uses different system which is vengeance system, not justice system. Really now? Yet you are asking for wrongdoers to not be protected anymore from other peoples' revenge. You are literally suggesting Riot should legitimize and "legalize" revenge. >No, you get banned for being reported excessively, as the A.S.S. is taught to take wp and gj as insults. [citation needed]
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3vZNVo3A,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-11-05T12:00:24.364+0000) > > Sure... hence why in a "sensible" justice system you are allowed to steal from thieves, murder murderers, set arsonist's houses on fire, rape rapists, etc. etc. It allows use of equal force to defend yourself. And, yes, if somebody show no respect to certain rule, he should not be protected by it. Unfortunately takers oppose this as they want system to defend themselves over their victims. You want system where rules breakers can to free, as system protects them more than victims. And in such systems victim is blamed for the situation, as the reality would hurt mental health of moderate people. The moderate fear that takers can do what ever they want, and thus blame victim as that is only way to maintain delusion of fairness. IT is delusion like the strong belief that things does not change. Change is inevitable. > I hear you are also totally allowed to do all that without that person being officially convicted of such a crime. No, I do not allow it without punishment but lesser punishment. Main flaw of Riot system is the fact there is only one punishment. if the victim uses equal force, he should not be punished due his right to defend himself. If he uses excessive force, he should also be punished, but the fact other party violated his rights first should always taken into account. > Seriously, you are asking for Riot to effectively remove all protection for anybody, not just flamers. "Hmm... this guy is not buying a sightstone on a support, I feel like that disrespects me, better tell him to kill himself!" Yes, for the game the player did that. Not totally, but during the game. If you flame somebody, you open yourself to flaming. This way flaming would be punished instead of punishing for being reported. The rules are so draconian it is impossible to play in the way you will not be punished. Especially when Riot does hide all facts of the system, and all reasons of the punishment. The reason why I want the context taken into account are people who are baiting others to say something they know to be solid reason for banning. Such people should be punished instead of victims. Context is also necessary as people do make types and misclicks. I have several times accidentally written rude word due pressing accidentally enter on wrong part of word or hitting space. These kind of events are not perceived by the system, and it does not take into account next lines correcting the mistake, as it is simulation of malicious human stupidity, not intelligence. > Really now? Yet you are asking for wrongdoers to not be protected anymore from other peoples' revenge. You are literally suggesting Riot should legitimize and "legalize" revenge. Actually current system is legalizing revenge. it has nothing making the system justice system, as only result of report is punishment of person. It is assassination system in disguise. You cannot counter this argument, but you will try by misinterpreting the meanings of words. Current system gives no reimbursement to the victims, and maximizes harsh punishment on reported. This is not justice, but revenge. > [citation needed] Adelaine Skyhart. RIot admit all accusations were wrong, but punishment for trolling was correct as so many players did report him.
Zielmann (NA)
: >Muting does not defend you against described illegal actions. Muting does not defend you against calling FBI to raid you to get rid of you. Totally different scenario. We're talking about an online game with total strangers. There is literally zero real threat to you if people start to antagonize you online. Of course if you've done something illegal and the FBI shows up to investigate, there are quite clearly severe life-altering ramifications on the line. >Why you do not say the same for those who initiate those fights. I cannot stand moderate people who defend the wrongdoers and blame the victim, as there has to be reason why victim is attacked. Bullies does not choose victims without good reasons, and there is always two way street even if there is none. Moderate people do lots of things to uphold self-delusion that nothing wrong happens, and all wrongs have good reason. I'm not defending wrongdoers or blaming victims. The OP outright states that he's fighting with other players in game. That's a choice he made at the time, whether somebody else started it or not. And yes, I'm naturally going to question such wild assertions as those made in the title and the OP. Such tools, if they do exist, are not a widespread thing (or at least were not at the time this thread was made? I haven't played in a few months). The OP would either have to be playing with/against the same few people using those tools over and over again, or else the tools would be widely known and many people would have been seeing this happening once every few games.
> [{quoted}](name=Zielmann,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mlYorLeR,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2017-11-05T16:06:28.068+0000) > > Totally different scenario. We're talking about an online game with total strangers. There is literally zero real threat to you if people start to antagonize you online. Of course if you've done something illegal and the FBI shows up to investigate, there are quite clearly severe life-altering ramifications on the line. I am sorry, but we are not. Both scenarios are due over-competitive situation. The calling of FBI raid is act of vengeance, and attempt to make somebody made you appear bad hurt. Most of the time flaming is just the same. Kids try to do all they can to blame and hurt others to avoid the annoying feeling they failed. Words are also life-altering. Words even in the net does not exist without affecting you. And the situation I said is worst expression of the problem, but it is still same problem. I have noticed that most people who do not want to analyze things gets into the pit trying to separate every event from other events of same kind. Please, stop doing it, and try to figure out similarities to understand phenomena. > I'm not defending wrongdoers or blaming victims. The OP outright states that he's fighting with other players in game. That's a choice he made at the time, whether somebody else started it or not. And yes, I'm naturally going to question such wild assertions as those made in the title and the OP. Such tools, if they do exist, are not a widespread thing (or at least were not at the time this thread was made? I haven't played in a few months). The OP would either have to be playing with/against the same few people using those tools over and over again, or else the tools would be widely known and many people would have been seeing this happening once every few games. And fighting other players are different thing. Fighting can mean arguing. HE did also state that he is not initiator of those fights. You, like almost every moderate person, are trying to blame victim fighting in self-defense as he is making event you try to ignore visible to you for it. Try to learn to figure out causalities. Always blame initiator more than victim. I argued your point that muting works. it does not, as it only hides the problem. The flamer continues to ruin team spirit. You are defending bullies and initial flamer by telling people continue with Riot advice to mute, as that gives two signals: You signal to the victim he is alone and part of the problem, and to the bully that you give bully silent support. The latter is the reason why **you should never ever comply to the attitude to silence the victim as it makes you uncomfortable to witness bullying**. This is discussion, and thus I can refer to something not referring to Original Post. For some reason people who have taken really rigid stance and fighting to win argument, and thus violating all rules of arguing, want to limit talk. Stop it. IT only makes you appear unskilled and uneducated.
Ulanopo (NA)
: >I suggest you go to check meaning of words in real factual context before you use your prejudices to define totally wrong meanings of situations. You're conflating context leading to meaning - "That girl was totally hot" - with context granting exception or acceptance - "He pushed me, so I hit him back." Just so we're clear, the second type of context is not considered valid in League, **by deliberate rule**. The Summoner's Code explicitly instructs against adding to toxicity and tolerates zero attempts at justification. "He was feeding, so it's okay for me to flame him" is ALWAYS wrong.
> [{quoted}](name=Ulanopo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3vZNVo3A,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-05T16:22:38.652+0000) > > You're conflating context leading to meaning - "That girl was totally hot" - with context granting exception or acceptance - "He pushed me, so I hit him back." > > Just so we're clear, the second type of context is not considered valid in League, **by deliberate rule**. The Summoner's Code explicitly instructs against adding to toxicity and tolerates zero attempts at justification. "He was feeding, so it's okay for me to flame him" is ALWAYS wrong. I am sorry, but you cannot understand English word context at all. It does not mean what you are saying, as you interpret it with prejudices. Context mean context, the environment where it is said. That includes previous comments, the place where ti is said, and who are present. It does not mean what you are trying to say it, but apparently English native speakers have lost their grasp of things due totally incompetent over-competitive class-system based school system. This is really sad to see, as I have lived in times where American school system did work. Then Reagan and neoliberals came. You are trying to say context is always twisted branding thing. It is not. I am talking of real context not bloody twisted conning you are talking of. No wonder you say "context does not matter" as you have no clue what context really is.
Brotha (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kartagia,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=V6BcdyyG,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-11-05T06:20:10.341+0000) > > If you dodge, you get punished with queue delay. If you play the game, you get your vengeance with no risk of punishment at all. Which would you think person who made mistake and have pride would do ? What vengeance? You still lose lp while in promos.
> [{quoted}](name=Brotha,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=V6BcdyyG,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-11-05T08:08:56.436+0000) > > What vengeance? You still lose lp while in promos. Not everybody is in promos, and dodging is considered loss for promos which is really really stupid behavior by Riot. Putting those in promos back on the wall.
Brotha (NA)
: If you instalock the wrong champion, it is kinda on you to correct your mistake and dodge. That Urgot will no doubt be punished for his flame, but if I was in a ranked game and someone did that to me I'd be upset as well.
> [{quoted}](name=Brotha,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=V6BcdyyG,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-05T04:13:16.174+0000) > > If you instalock the wrong champion, it is kinda on you to correct your mistake and dodge. That Urgot will no doubt be punished for his flame, but if I was in a ranked game and someone did that to me I'd be upset as well. If you dodge, you get punished with queue delay. If you play the game, you get your vengeance with no risk of punishment at all. Which would you think person who made mistake and have pride would do ?
: > [{quoted}](name=Jørgensen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3vZNVo3A,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-04T19:39:53.183+0000)I can agree with this to some extent, though context does indeed heavily matter which is the whole point of this board post. Then let me ask this question: why should there be exceptions made to the rule "treat other people respectfully?" Do you believe that someone being a rude person somehow means that you being rude back is suddenly the expected and respectable course of action? If not, why does it exempt you from the expectation of that behavior? >But I must say this one I cannot see any form of excessive bad behavior. The thing is that permanent bans aren't just for *excessive* bad behavior. They're also for *consistent* bad behavior and, if you had a 14-day ban previously, you *were* given a final warning. The permanent ban is for toxicity without reformation, not simply something reserved for the worst of the worst. I believe this is a common misunderstanding of the permanent ban -- Riot's stance is that *toxicity is not allowed*, not that *only serious toxicity is not allowed*.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3vZNVo3A,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-04T19:45:57.386+0000) > > Then let me ask this question: why should there be exceptions made to the rule "treat other people respectfully?" Do you believe that someone being a rude person somehow means that you being rude back is suddenly the expected and respectable course of action? If not, why does it exempt you from the expectation of that behavior? And why does not Riot enforce this rule? If someone treats you non-respectful fashion, why you have to respect him after that? That is the main flaw of the system - it protects wrong doers initiating flaming. For any sensible person, someone treating you without respect deserves no respect at all. If someone behaves such way he does not honor the code, he should not be protected that subset of code. This is how sensible justice systems work. RIot and USA uses different system which is vengeance system, not justice system. > The thing is that permanent bans aren't just for *excessive* bad behavior. They're also for *consistent* bad behavior and, if you had a 14-day ban previously, you *were* given a final warning. The permanent ban is for toxicity without reformation, not simply something reserved for the worst of the worst. I believe this is a common misunderstanding of the permanent ban -- Riot's stance is that *toxicity is not allowed*, not that *only serious toxicity is not allowed*. No, you get banned for being reported excessively, as the A.S.S. is taught to take wp and gj as insults.
Ulanopo (NA)
: "Context should matter" is almost always code for "It's not a problem for me, so it shouldn't be a problem." >_As a long time summoner and a person who has been issued **multiple permanent suspensions** over the time I've played this game._ [emphasis mine] Clearly there's a disconnect between you and the community. Perhaps you should consider how that's unlikely to change to accommodate you.
> [{quoted}](name=Ulanopo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3vZNVo3A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-04T19:47:20.990+0000) > > "Context should matter" is almost always code for "It's not a problem for me, so it shouldn't be a problem." I suggest you learn to understand what context mean. As native speaker of Finnish, I can assure you you cannot evaluate single word of English without relying heavily on context as English is totally context defined language. By removing game events and chat of others from reports, all context of talk is removed. This is simple scientific fact. And with this removal of context Riot allowed punishing those who make flamer feel bad by telling him he is doing wrong. That is RUDE! it is really rude to tell wrongdoer he is doing wrong! I suggest you go to check meaning of words in real factual context before you use your prejudices to define totally wrong meanings of situations. I bet your prejudices also tell that low league position mean player cannot be good or give good points.
Coopa123 (EUW)
: > they only focus on to punish those who are angry They made an automated system to ban people instead of wasting manpower. That's the opposite of what you claim > Have you ever seen a game that bans people that are just mad at the current moment of the game (ingame)? Yes. > It is even fucked up that they have put in a punishment were you have to wait 20 minutes before queing for a game. Yeah punishing people who leave games or can't fix their damn internet is so fucked > Dunkey is so fking right with all his statements And let me guess, old Tyler1 was a hero of justice > and go ahead downvote me and prove my point right How does downvoting prove anything of your nonsense right? You blurt out some idiotic nonsense expecting reports, you get reports, and somehow this proves you right? Are you joking? xD > Who literally snitches on someone just because of saying for example "Fuck you" Or "Kys "JUST" telling someone to end his life because you're angry at a video game? ... are you a psychopath? > I just wish this game was a lot more different, and it has the most potential than any game out there. I wish it was different as well. People like you shouldn't be playing these games. So your ban makes Leage a little better. Thanks for your contribution <3
> [{quoted}](name=Coopa123,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=y3IHQHpB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-04T13:53:13.166+0000) > > They made an automated system to ban people instead of wasting manpower. That&#x27;s the opposite of what you claim They made automatic system doing just what he told. Riot refuses to disclose any details or analysis of the system. They told us the system would not be fully automatic, but it proven to be one immediately after launch as I fear. They should not have wasted manpower on implementation of this artificial stupidity system, as it does not emulate human intelligence but stupidity. > How does downvoting prove anything of your nonsense right? You blurt out some idiotic nonsense expecting reports, you get reports, and somehow this proves you right? Are you joking? xD Downvoting does not prove anything. I have seen my post with same context get downvoted, and then week later higher league position person giving exactly the same points and getting upvoted by thousands. Thus facts does not matter on downvoting. It is just bullying tool.
Chermorg (NA)
: It has *never* been okay to insult your team or try and force them to want to surrender.
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=zA8n2AGb,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-11-04T16:01:55.781+0000) > > It has *never* been okay to insult your team or try and force them to want to surrender. If it is never okay, then why those who do it on regular basis are not punished? I can give you quite fast list of thousands of such players from EUNE who still play without punishment doing something you call "never okay". Can you explain me why this is happening if it is *never okay*, but it is still okay for plenty of wrongdoers.
Zielmann (NA)
: For starters, stop fighting with other players. If they try to start stuff and you feel compelled to respond, just mute them instead. Doing this will also prevent you from putting your account at risk of punishments. But I highly doubt this is something people are doing intentionally. If it were happening this often to you, it would be a widespread issue that a lot of people report, but this is the first I've ever heard of something like this. My guess is there's a hardware or configuration issue on your end (or maybe even just your ISP) that's causing it, and you only notice it when you're already riled up and arguing with other people.
> [{quoted}](name=Zielmann,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mlYorLeR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-06T18:13:16.430+0000) > > For starters, stop fighting with other players. If they try to start stuff and you feel compelled to respond, just mute them instead. Doing this will also prevent you from putting your account at risk of punishments. Muting does not defend you against described illegal actions. Muting does not defend you against calling FBI to raid you to get rid of you. I am sorry, but your advice is as good as advice given by Donald Trump. And your advice is based on same quality of facts as Donald Trump advice and arguments. I ask you: why plenty of rules breakers initiating bullying gets away with it, but every time someone challenges them, punishment happens? IT is because Riot is ran by bullies who hate to see other bullies having fun on expense of others. > But I highly doubt this is something people are doing intentionally. If it were happening this often to you, it would be a widespread issue that a lot of people report, but this is the first I&#x27;ve ever heard of something like this. My guess is there&#x27;s a hardware or configuration issue on your end (or maybe even just your ISP) that&#x27;s causing it, and you only notice it when you&#x27;re already riled up and arguing with other people. Why you do not say the same for those who initiate those fights. I cannot stand moderate people who defend the wrongdoers and blame the victim, as there has to be reason why victim is attacked. Bullies does not choose victims without good reasons, and there is always two way street even if there is none. Moderate people do lots of things to uphold self-delusion that nothing wrong happens, and all wrongs have good reason.
Kei143 (NA)
: 1. Don't get validly reported (valid reports slow down your honors progress) 2. Get honors (by either through carrying, or actual good behavior) 3. Honor others as well (get that full team honor bonus) 4. Play lots of games 5. ??? 6. Profit
> [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=11agqlMb,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-03T17:49:04.656+0000) > > 1. Don&#x27;t get validly reported (valid reports slow down your honors progress) Drop the word validly as automated system has no such thing as invalid report. > 2. Get honors (by either through carrying, or actual good behavior) And if you play support, community focusing on score subset of kills and deaths, you cannot get honors that often. Thus your advice is: do not play jungle or support. > 3. Honor others as well (get that full team honor bonus) And this mean you ignore definition of honors for competition reasons. This I have seen. Dishonorable get honored, as competitive players think they gain more by honoring regardless behavior. > 4. Play lots of games This does not work. I play lots and get thrown down. Flaming starts at champ selection.
: How can reports be valid if you don't receive punishment? That's literally a black and white issue. Either the report is valid and you get punished, or it's not and you don't.
Because every report reduce your honor. The system is totally automatic and Riot have not done any systematic review on reports for seasons. THey only do manual review when some high profile player proves system does not work as they have told us.
: Honor still not updating
You cannot rise in honor if some people report you. I have gut feeling that 1 report negates honor gain of one game where all gave honor. If somebody did not honor, you lose honor every time somebody files a report on you. No false reports in this way.
Qomp (EUNE)
: I got perma-banned for stepping up against toxic players
Riot games has taken stance that bullies should let bully! IT is your fault you get bullied, thus mute them and enjoy loss. And trust RIot they might consider punishing the bully. It seems that bullies get punished less than those who dare to make it blatantly apparent bullying is wrong. For some reason system punishes those who stand against bullies way more. I think it is due the fact bullies have taught the Riot AI to do this for them. And Riot refuses to do real analysis of the AI as "it works as intended", as RIot games never make mistakes.
Emenarth (NA)
: ***
You are playing support well, thus you cannot get out, as enemies you shamed by killing them reports you and reduce your honor.
Erola (OCE)
: Honor 0 Wondering what i have to do to get out
Interesting part Riot is totally ignoring: I got to honor 1 after dropped to honor 0, but for some reason I got demoted back to honor 0 without being punished. Thus I am living proof that every single report reduce your honor. The whole competitive honor system is created by someone who hates it supports got honorable opponents when they did not do as they were told. They do not want you to see honor metrics as it would show that "slight gain of honor" is totally insignificant compared to honor lost by reports. And more importantly, for RIot bullies, hiding punishment system seems to be totally important. Thus lack of honor metrics is to hide effectiveness of reporting system and the fact there is no false report. If you would see your honor bar drop when you had players who attacked you verbally, you would understand there is no false report. And the fact is you can always report your enemies as vengeance after you lost game. There is no honorable opponent but dishonorable enemies in "winning" taker part of community who thinks supporting is insult to their status. I have start to feel that the system change was made to ensure best score carry gets honors, as community seems to want. The fact old honor system worked like it should work, was just pain in the ass of community. God damn system gave supports honors when they did play well, but did not do as they were told. New system works just like community wants - it gives most honor to best carry in the team regardless how flaming or dishonorable he was! The system is actually MVP in disguise of honor system. And that is really bad design. In the other thread talking of the honorable opponent got it quite straight we have people who cannot grasp honor. For them pvp game means your opponents are enemies, and you cannot show any respect to them but insult and hate them as ends justifies means.
Emenarth (NA)
: ***
I totally agree with you, but those who abuse the system does shout here that system works, and that RIot says it does, it does work. They never play support, thus they do not need to worry. And for some reason leak Riot did that community opinion is basis of reporting is apparently true, as it seems only supports are punishable for off-meta. It seems that off-meta and trolling only applies to supports who does not do as they are told, as community has strong belief supports are not equal members of team.
: Only valid reports reduce your honor progress. Honors are spread very equally to every role.
> [{quoted}](name=Silent Gravity,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=11agqlMb,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-11-03T18:37:06.872+0000) > > Only valid reports reduce your honor progress. > > Honors are spread very equally to every role. But RIot games have blurted it out there is no such thing as invalid report. Especially when you play off-meta support as trolling report is always valid as Riot does not give a shit to do investigation,
Erola (OCE)
: Honor 0 Wondering what i have to do to get out
This is flaw in honor system as every report drops your honor way more than being honored gains. Riot makes false assumption that people are benevolent and does not use reporting as punishment tool? I suggest RIot starts to check which kind of people are honored - most likely good K/D - and how supports are treated. Quite badly I bet.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kartagia,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=6uY6r4eX,comment-id=000600010000,timestamp=2017-11-02T23:15:42.996+0000) > > Do not blame victim for being mentally assaulted by another person. You apparently have never been attacked by bullies as you say something as silly as this. > > You should blame the baiting player, not the victim, as baiting player is the one breaking the rules. 100% wrong Riot gives you the tools to defeat them it is called "mute" There is never any "context" or "justification" for responding to, reacting to any Intentional negative chat , action or play . Also there is never any "context" or Justification to negativity commenting on something you simply don't like or what you consider "bad play" of any kind. As for players blaming punishable speech and/or actions on other players - that is also inherently wrong There is no such thing as being baited. You cannot use that as an excuse. YOU ( the player) control and are responsible for your own actions speech. No matter what anyone does or says in game no matter how bad if YOU choose to respond to it in any way the YOU rightly deserve to be punished as well. If you don't like how random people, don't want the "risk" of someone intentionally trying to disrupt the game ( intentional feeders afk verbal abusive leaverbuster avoiders) play then it's up to you not to join a random que , As for there is a INTENTIONAL feeder or afk just ignore them and play as you would if everything was fine and report them after the game . Take no action ,of any kind in retaliation or respond/ react to them verbally. Also If a player disagrees and /or ignores the above guidelines and continue to break them remember every player is just GUEST of Riot no matter how much money that player spent on their account and their Privilege of playing in this game can and should be taken away permanently,
I am sorry, but putting your head into bush does not make lion go away. Neither does muting make bullying go away. It just makes it invisible to you. Why this is so hard to get? It does not hurt you anymore? Yes, it does. It still does hurt you, but it hurts only as much the initial flaming hurt. The problem in your thinking is simple: You think something you cannot see does not exist. I have said I mute bully to see how he continues after he believes I cannot see him. You should try that. The bully continues talking your team and enemy team against you. He won't stop you muting him or ignoring him. Thus he will continue ruining team spirit. This is why you have to be able to argue with him, to oppose his flaming. The problem is that Riot context removed Artificial Stupidity System has been taught wrong. I am sorry, but you cannot take the sentences of a single player, and grasp the meaning of his words. Why Riot prevented arguing with flamer? **They do know their AI cannot distinguish a flamer from a person defending victim. They do know their way of treating chat removes all context and all ability to figure out whether someone is flaming trying to stop flamer**. Why I can say this? Because the grievers of the MMO community are well connected and well educated. They are not stupid. This is the fact Riot is trying to ignore. Hiding system operation only plays to the hand of computer savvy grievers, as they do have plenty of hacked accounts, and understanding to figure out how the system works. WE have good proof of this: Microsoft chat bot turned into bigot nazi flamer withing day from launch. This bot made the mistake Riot did - they did let bot learn from discussion. Riot bot learns from tribunal cases. And we have plenty of people who have plenty of accounts to create problems. One important context Riot removes from reports: whether the game is custom, co-op. vs. AI, normal, ranked. This is actually important. Without this distinction, the comp. savvy grievers could easily make 5 stolen accounts and machinate teaching information they want to the bot. There has been several people believing the Tribunal AI thinks "wp", and "gj" as insults due this kind of malicious teaching system do wrong things. Why you should be able to defend victim? Because it is the only way to show the flamer he is doing wrong. It should not be done by victim but other players in team. It is better to have 4 people playing team against flamer than the other result way more common: 3 people joining flamer attacking the victim. And this is the normal way how bullying works on the net, at school, or at work. It is easier for bully to get neutrals on their side than victim. This is why defending victim should be allowed, and why initiator of the situation should be punished, and victim scolded. When somebody breaks a rule, he should not be protected by that rule. All sane justice systems works this way. If you violate some rule, you revoke its protection on yourself, as you do not respect it. Vengeance systems does not work this way as they are tools of overpowering others.
: > [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=6uY6r4eX,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-10-31T03:06:53.243+0000) > > Others have basically said this, but I wanted to make it extremely clear: > > **Your rage is yours to control**. Nobody else&#x27;s. If you&#x27;re raging at games such as it appears you are, you may want to find a different, more enjoyable game to play. Games aren&#x27;t there to make you mad. They&#x27;re there to make you enjoy yourself. And not all games are for all people. If you&#x27;re being overly competitive in League, maybe try a different game for a while - cool off - and come back. ^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^ Don't blame others for your lack of emotional stability or anger management skills.
> [{quoted}](name=Mindspeaker,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=6uY6r4eX,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2017-11-02T11:20:29.504+0000) > > ^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^ > > Don't blame others for your lack of emotional stability or anger management skills. Do not blame victim for being mentally assaulted by another person. You apparently have never been attacked by bullies as you say something as silly as this. You should blame the baiting player, not the victim, as baiting player is the one breaking the rules.
: WHEN YOU GET TROLLING AND FEEDING PLAYERS IN TEAM WHAT TO DO
Riot policy is simple: Enjoy your loss, as majority of players (enemy team + troll) enjoys the game. You cannot do anything to stop him, as it would be "arguing against flamer". YOu can report him and watch op.gg that he will not get banned.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=CreampEye,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hc43zZvq,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-10-30T04:49:54.260+0000) > > What qualifications do you have to diagnose? There are very good sites telling what sociopath is, and he is not diagnosing you. Only medical doctors can give you official diagnosing. The fact is word can be used as laymen meaning a bit different than official diagnose. In common use, sociopath is form of psychopathy with no ability to relate to anybody else. This is not medical term nowadays. In living languages, words have several meanings.
Chermorg (NA)
: Client chat is already recorded and utilised when the IFS reviews reports. That includes pre and post game chat.
Does it include pregame chat of dodged queues? This is the reason why people want pregame chat reporting.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kartagia,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jdehwPhe,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-11-01T08:24:45.761+0000) > > I am sorry, but they removed that option from support system 3 years ago. No they really didnt https://imgur.com/a/1tVGW
> [{quoted}](name=JaaamesBaaaxter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jdehwPhe,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-11-01T23:02:54.645+0000) > > No they really didnt > > https://imgur.com/a/1tVGW They did bring it back as that option was not around 3 months ago.
: Smurfing isnt punishable if he is throwing games in order to keep his account at x elo that is punishable SMURFING again I repeat SMURFING is not punishable
> [{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EJA9ddXd,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-01T10:11:33.964+0000) > > Smurfing isnt punishable > if he is throwing games in order to keep his account at x elo that is punishable > SMURFING again I repeat SMURFING is not punishable I agreed that smurfing is not punishable on itself, but if you are unsportsmanlike when smurfing, it is punishable. Throwing a game is not only way to be unsportsmanlike. Totally bashing your enemy and insulting them and gloating over them is very common way to do it too.
: Smurfing isn't punishable boosting is, account sharing is Smurfing no
> [{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EJA9ddXd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-01T06:55:08.922+0000) > > Smurfing isn&#x27;t punishable > boosting is, account sharing is > Smurfing no Smurfing in order to win easy games at ranked is unsportsmanlike. Having several accounts is not. It is also possible he is just ranked below his skill due quite likely chance he has lost several games due bad team mates. As every time somebody climbs, other is pushed down, it is possible he is victim of boosters.
: Ehh, thats a subjective Riot has already laid out the reporting tools if nobody wants to use them then why should riot just open the door to mass pregame reporting?
> [{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jdehwPhe,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-01T08:47:17.398+0000) > > Ehh, thats a subjective > Riot has already laid out the reporting tools > if nobody wants to use them then why should riot just open the door to mass pregame reporting? Actually Riot has made tools such way they can ignore the problem. The support reporting tool never had clear category for pregame chat reporting, and you cannot check who were in the pregame lobby, and you have to have constant screen capturing to have proof. Honestly, I would rather have system keeping you in lobby when somebody dodges, allowing you to report people, and put you back to queue after you have left the lobby.
: > [{quoted}](name=atomic acid 532,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RbfI1PoH,comment-id=000300000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-10-31T18:44:33.169+0000) > > just a bot answered me :/ Keep trying. It occasionally takes a try or two -- they get a LOT of tickets. :(
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=RbfI1PoH,comment-id=0003000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-10-31T18:46:38.519+0000) > > Keep trying. It occasionally takes a try or two -- they get a LOT of tickets. :( My experience: It takes 1 to 2 days to get token reply proving nobody read the ticket desc, as the ticket answer was already dealt with according to desc. Then it takes 1 week or so for human to answer, and even then he usually does not read the desc until you blatantly smear it into his face that he should do it.
: > [{quoted}](name=archerno1,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2WhPjOEA,comment-id=000100030000,timestamp=2017-10-30T23:50:41.803+0000) > > But also to teach them to accept consequences of their actions. If they refuse to follow proper procedure and decide to take matters in their hands, that there may be repercussions and that its their fault if they get suspended/expelled or fired if we talk about work situation. I agree completely, they should take responsibility for their actions. Though if this is still a child we are talking about the worst that could happen is a suspension these days.
> [{quoted}](name=ShaftyMegee,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2WhPjOEA,comment-id=0001000300000000,timestamp=2017-10-30T23:53:31.795+0000) > > I agree completely, they should take responsibility for their actions. Though if this is still a child we are talking about the worst that could happen is a suspension these days. Suspension is not very good punishment for kids, as they see it like extra vacation. Why should the bully and initiator of the events be punished more? To show it is worse to initiate or machine situation than be victim of machination. This is why teacher should intervene, and the initiator should be publicly punished in the way hurting him most: he has to admit he did wrong, apologize victim, and give victim something to compensate wrong doing. I know this is totally against American way of adoring criminals who get away with crimes.
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Kartagia

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