: Someone earlier apparantly """""leaked""""" the next upcoming skins
Star Guardian Zyra¨. PLEASE NO! Don't do that Riot! Holy please. Can you give Zyra some original skin without any themes around?! She ain¨t a protector. She would become a void to spread the seeds.
: Hi there, You have something on your computer that's altering the contents of critical game files. This might be malware. I'd recommend a virus scan.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Bugcheck,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=GX3Zhxwe,comment-id=012a0000,timestamp=2018-06-29T03:04:15.231+0000) > > Hi there, > > You have something on your computer that's altering the contents of critical game files. This might be malware. I'd recommend a virus scan. How about to reroll your BAD idea? This is ridiculous. You are the only company that doesn't allow WM's workstation .etc? Do I have to buy 2nd pc just only to play with my gf or what?
: Nothing about working with the Virtual Environment software companies to make it compatible with your new anti-cheat? Everyone that was playing on WINE/VMware etc will now have to quit the game (including me) Seems fair after how much all of us Linux users have spent on your game. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
> [{quoted}](name=Arvelique,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=GX3Zhxwe,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-16T01:54:50.505+0000) > > Nothing about working with the Virtual Environment software companies to make it compatible with your new anti-cheat? > > Everyone that was playing on WINE/VMware etc will now have to quit the game (including me) > > Seems fair after how much all of us Linux users have spent on your game. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} Exactly. Me and my gf have one computer and now I can't run LoL via WM's workstation. Such a bull****
: @Meddler {{champion:143}} Would you guys ever concider making some reverts to Zyra? Like returning her to her old kit pre mid year mage update. I feel her old kit was much better then the current kit and her power was better distributed to areas of her kit where she could display skill rather then the RNG machine she feels to be now. I PERSONALLY feel her old Q Deadly Bloom was better prefering the range over the width. Also I feel having less plants that were more impactful was better then having a bunch of them that werent that impactful. And if not that change.... could you concider increasing Zyra's ROOT duration rank 1 so that its on par with other Mid Lane mages. ATM her 0.75 second root is not enough to peel a gank. I just see alot of area of improvement for Zyra as a champion and I feel like improving on her CC is smart as thematically Crowd Control fits her... Another idea I thought of was maybe lowering the Cooldown of her ultimate so its on par with other mages with similiar abilities. Orianna comes to mind... she has a fairly short cooldown on her ult and its much more reliable then Zyra's. OVERALL i would really like to see Zyra reverted to old, cause lets be honest... most of the mid year mage updates didn't hit the mark... and i feel zyra is one of them. Edit (Also an idea for her plants. You could buff their range back to 750 and it would allow her to position her plants further away which would in turn make them last longer.) https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/lRJANqvm-dear-riot-please-revert-zyra-to-pre-mid-year-mage-update
Exactly. @meddler {{champion:143}} can you rererse her Q or at least change its shape to be more thick? Also she is missing some scale, since it feels like playing with no rewards as a midlaner. Those champions like Brand and Zyra need some bigger rewards to be worthy as squishy midlaners. Maybe give her some AS scale just like Azir has?
Meddler (NA)
: Zyra's on our list of champions who might get looked at during the 8.11 cycle. Not guaranteed to ship anything in 8.11 and not sure what possible work would involve yet, but we did talk about her yesterday when doing 8.11 planning.
Finally. I just hope it's gonna be something to make both roles happy. Since her midlane role is almost dead. Just only dedicated mains like me, are playing her as a midlane mage.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
Greetings @Meddler I know you are a bit of tired about people who are asking for Zyra buff. I know that you've got 'better' things to balance. And I've got patient. Just one day when you will discuss some rework for her, will you remember our ideas? We'd like to see midlane Zyra too, not just her lesser support role. I think balancing her for both roles is going to be a bit of problem. Even it's managable, if you will have a mood to give Zyra's rework some decent effort instead of just buffing plants to make the community of Zyra players to be already quiet. So with all kidness, take your time and rework Zyra once you and your team is gonna be ready to do so. We, Zyra community, don't wanna some lesser buff just to be quiet. We will wait for some decent rework for both of Zyra's roles. Since her midlane role is dead and totally unworthy to play, because of low rewards. And support role always get carried, so that's why she has 'decent' winrate. Thank you for your time and good luck with balancing of more priority objects.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lesba Zyra,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LQviEbiN,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-05-08T19:48:22.244+0000) > > Holy hell. The gold is talking. Pushing solo lane means to fight 1vs2. And I wanna see you playing against two skilled assassins like LB + Kha. Your post is just one of those people who thinks that Zyra is fine. Even she is legally a pure shit, especially as a solo laner now. Her rewards are weak and everyone just crushing her plants. Her ratios are useless. And flat magic penetration is already dead. She has only a good winrate, because of the support role, since a lot of support players get carried. One ~~ward~~ word. _**Punctuation.**_ Also I don't play this game enough to dedicate to climbing. That requires an extensive amount of time. Most I can dedicate at one time is like 2 hours, in which case, I'm also trolling with my picks; while ALSO remaining in top 70% winrates with the champs that I main . . . with an additional 15+ games per each of them. You know what though? Let's play the elite card. http://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=Lesba+Zyra http://puu.sh/AiEFK/f0a97574cf.png Wait, you aren't an elite. Your performance is actually less than gold with all of the champions you play except for Jarvan and Zyra, whoops, my bad. This is case and point scenario that IF Zyra was buffed to the point of being viable. And I gave my take. Now take it or leave it, and get your lvl 26 smurf to lvl 30 so that you can make yourself feel better by stomping people on your smurf account to raise your ego a little higher. I'm sure EUW will appreciate your presence.
> [{quoted}](name=Mezo,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LQviEbiN,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2018-05-08T22:50:07.704+0000) > > Her winrate is high in lower ranks people don't know how to dodge any skill shots in bronze~silver~gold, But when you play Zyra support or mid in Plat+ MMR you will hate the champion and you will feel useless af when enemy olaf uses his predator and keep running towards you every time and you can't do any damage to give your allies the opportunity to finish him after your death I had chall S7 and had master this season too, before they nerfed {{item:3151}}. I was fine playing mid for any season. Anyway this time, there is no way how to carry as solo midlane Zyra. She feel so weak against assassins and tanky teams. > [{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LQviEbiN,comment-id=000400010001,timestamp=2018-05-08T23:13:14.239+0000) > > One ~~ward~~ word. > > _**Punctuation.**_ > > Also I don't play this game enough to dedicate to climbing. That requires an extensive amount of time. Most I can dedicate at one time is like 2 hours, in which case, I'm also trolling with my picks; while ALSO remaining in top 70% winrates with the champs that I main . . . with an additional 15+ games per each of them. You know what though? Let's play the elite card. > > http://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=Lesba+Zyra > http://puu.sh/AiEFK/f0a97574cf.png > > Wait, you aren't an elite. Your performance is actually less than gold with all of the champions you play except for Jarvan and Zyra, whoops, my bad. This is case and point scenario that IF Zyra was buffed to the point of being viable. And I gave my take. Now take it or leave it, and get your lvl 26 smurf to lvl 30 so that you can make yourself feel better by stomping people on your smurf account to raise your ego a little higher. I'm sure EUW will appreciate your presence. Do you even dare to flame someone who has managed to hit master every single season? Including WEST? Let's go and check his op.gg, since Zyra totally sucks last two months. Of course my kda and winrate has dropped once riot decided to nerf {{item:3151}}
Feel Apathy (EUNE)
: Played her exclusively midlane this season. Common Issues: Rooting a champion with E and they autohit the closest nearby target [which is usually a plant] and kill it. E cast time allows for too much "counterplay" , when you're aiming a skillshot, and have to stay in 1 place before you throw it - it's a big no-no, especially for someone that relies solely on flash for mobility. [Brand's cast times are a lot shorter, if there are any at all] Manaflow band nerf put her in a poor state, you can no longer proc it with a plant hit, and getting close and personal with Zyra gets you killed immediately while aiming the spells is immensely difficult, when the cast time is this long.
> [{quoted}](name=Feel Apathy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LQviEbiN,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-05-07T20:34:49.320+0000) > > Played her exclusively midlane this season. > > Common Issues: > > Rooting a champion with E and they autohit the closest nearby target [which is usually a plant] and kill it. > > E cast time allows for too much "counterplay" , when you're aiming a skillshot, and have to stay in 1 place before you throw it - it's a big no-no, especially for someone that relies solely on flash for mobility. [Brand's cast times are a lot shorter, if there are any at all] > > Manaflow band nerf put her in a poor state, you can no longer proc it with a plant hit, and getting close and personal with Zyra gets you killed immediately while aiming the spells is immensely difficult, when the cast time is this long. And you have forgotten her low dmg, super squishy plants and such. Her dmg is rapidly dropping down, because of low ap ratios and useless builds like rylai + mask with only work around LIVING plants.
: I played Zyra adc with my duo, It's actually pretty good. https://puu.sh/AhUVx/316cb82b55.png I think that if they did buff Zyra, it'd be way too insane to deal with. The ONLY reason I am able to ADC Zyra as an AP is because: 1. I can bully my lane 2. I rush tear and other mana items, skipping lane phase for 10 minutes 3. If we get behind, I can stall the game out with my W regeneration and prevent the enemy team from sieging and pushing. Making her BOTH a laner and a support choice will be a nightmare. Because if I'm viable as a support, then I can 1V1 marksman and other junglers. But if I'm not a viable support and suddenly become a mid laner, then I'll just be able to make sure nobody ever is able to push ever. (I max my Q btw, ten I max my W.)
> [{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LQviEbiN,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-07T20:08:54.544+0000) > > I played Zyra adc with my duo, > > It's actually pretty good. > > https://puu.sh/AhUVx/316cb82b55.png > > I think that if they did buff Zyra, it'd be way too insane to deal with. The ONLY reason I am able to ADC Zyra as an AP is because: > > 1. I can bully my lane > 2. I rush tear and other mana items, skipping lane phase for 10 minutes > 3. If we get behind, I can stall the game out with my W regeneration and prevent the enemy team from sieging and pushing. > > Making her BOTH a laner and a support choice will be a nightmare. Because if I'm viable as a support, then I can 1V1 marksman and other junglers. But if I'm not a viable support and suddenly become a mid laner, then I'll just be able to make sure nobody ever is able to push ever. (I max my Q btw, ten I max my W.) Holy hell. The gold is talking. Pushing solo lane means to fight 1vs2. And I wanna see you playing against two skilled assassins like LB + Kha. Your post is just one of those people who thinks that Zyra is fine. Even she is legally a pure shit, especially as a solo laner now. Her rewards are weak and everyone just crushing her plants. Her ratios are useless. And flat magic penetration is already dead. She has only a good winrate, because of the support role, since a lot of support players get carried.
Shaian (EUW)
: @RiotRepertoir: A modernization of Zyra as a Mage and Champion in 2018 with her current abilities
Riot doesn't care. They see Zyra only as a support champ with is shame. I totally hate that. I've never stopped playing midlane Zyra. Even this season is the worst one that I've ever played. Nerfing her core item {{item:3151}} was the last of nerfs to drop me from chall to low dia.
: We have some work slated to explicitly address some of the annoying 1 shot stuff for Zyra plants. It's been on our list for a few patches now, but keeps getting eked out by other work we have to prioritize above it. Pretty unsatisfying answer unfortunately, since it feels bad to keep hearing us talk about it but not do it. Repertoire has some specific ideas for it that we'll get around to as soon as we can.
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=AAQmzoJh,comment-id=004c0000,timestamp=2018-04-25T16:56:01.691+0000) > > We have some work slated to explicitly address some of the annoying 1 shot stuff for Zyra plants. It's been on our list for a few patches now, but keeps getting eked out by other work we have to prioritize above it. Pretty unsatisfying answer unfortunately, since it feels bad to keep hearing us talk about it but not do it. Repertoire has some specific ideas for it that we'll get around to as soon as we can. It isn't only about her plants. Her current play style has no rewards. She has no late, she has been forced to play supp only. Even I still play her only mid. Give her some rework once it's gonna be ready. Make her shine as a midlaner too, since riot has promised to make her usefull for other roles.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 27
Still not changed a thing about midlane Zyra. Come on riot. You have promised to bring her glory back.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 25
Hey hey, Meddler. Have you ever think about Zyra's curret situation? She has lost a lot, because of the nerfed liandry. Plants are weak and die quickly. She really needs some rework. Spells are out-dated and have low ap ratio. Did you check her E? super slow skillshot that roots for 0.75s at level 1 with 0.5 ap ratio??? Riot has promised to bring midlane Zyra back. Anyway she is just stuck on the bottom as a burst machine. Giving midlane Zyra that W reset ain't helping a lot. How about to give her plants some AS scale? it can bring a lot of interesting builds. Also a lot of Zyra mains wanna get the old Q shape back. It's hard to hit that, if target will move forward and or backward.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 20
@Meddler Hey there. Have you seen Zyra's state? A lot of Zyra mains are asking for change. Her current state is flustrasting and random. She is still played as a burst machine instead of DPS mage to use plants. Anyway plants are really useless, being one-shotted by almost everything. The liandry nerf (no it wasn't buff) touched Zyra's early and mid game a lot. She has become a support only. Even I still pick her as a midlane mage only. You, riot company, has promised to bring midlane Zyra back. Anyway she is still stuck on the bottom role only. Perhaps can you give her some rework? he has low rewards, her strongest part is early. Her late game is super weak, used only for CC and such. also can you NERF her Q to its old shape? It was clearly better for poke. Do you really think players ain't able to dodge forward or backward?
Chortle (NA)
: Zyra has been a disappointment @RiotRepertoir
Yeah. I have already explained that a few times and riot has been reading my post. Magic penetration is dead and is usefull only for early, because of that passive MR scale. Her ap ratios are funny. Her Q is easily dodged on a solo lane. Players ain't only dodging on sides. She has become a burst machine over dps. Her role is just to kill adc and pop all spells. because of her low ap ratios, she ain't played as a midlaner, because of no rewards. (i still play here as a midlaner, never submitted to play her as a support) Riot has been always talking to bring a midlane Zyra back. But they have never bring anything special for that. Reseting seeds ain't that worthy when you will not play for plants. Plants are one-shotted by everything and have low dmg, because of bad ratios and old magic pene sustain. E is also a joke. 0.75s root at level 1. Come on. AS scale can bring midlane Zyra into a decent post. AS has nice early and perfect late.
: Hi. I'm looking into some solutions for plant pain points. I agree they're under delivering. I think that would be a good starting point, and I'd be unlikely to start digging into everything else here at the same time, because it's likely that when plants feel underwhelming/unreliable, everything else on a kit that depends on them feels like shit on account of that. Stuff like her spells being clunky and old... seems like a personal opinion to me. I share the opinion on the Q stuff in particular, and actually Meddler does too. When we were looking into Zyra toward the end of last season, we surveyed a bunch of current and former Zyra players about which Q they prefer (expecting the response to be that most prefer the circle Q, as we did), and the results were surprisingly split, with a soft preference toward the current Q. Those kinds of polls are, of course, subject to certain biases, but even then, I'd be looking for a more convincing trend in order to consider moving forward with going back to the old Q.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9FuMtqJf,comment-id=0026,timestamp=2018-04-01T22:57:59.239+0000) > > Hi. I'm looking into some solutions for plant pain points. I agree they're under delivering. > > I think that would be a good starting point, and I'd be unlikely to start digging into everything else here at the same time, because it's likely that when plants feel underwhelming/unreliable, everything else on a kit that depends on them feels like shit on account of that. > > Stuff like her spells being clunky and old... seems like a personal opinion to me. I share the opinion on the Q stuff in particular, and actually Meddler does too. When we were looking into Zyra toward the end of last season, we surveyed a bunch of current and former Zyra players about which Q they prefer (expecting the response to be that most prefer the circle Q, as we did), and the results were surprisingly split, with a soft preference toward the current Q. Those kinds of polls are, of course, subject to certain biases, but even then, I'd be looking for a more convincing trend in order to consider moving forward with going back to the old Q. Finally I'm glad that somebody of the riot's team has noticed my post. Hopefully her changes are going to lead into a good direction. I have never had a problem to climb with midlane Zyra, because of the old liandry, but since the core item has been nerfed and is used only against tank, it feels like hard to do so. Anyway you've got to look for the direction of Zyra's playstyle. As a riot team, you wanna make Zyra to depend on her plants. Unfortunately you know that she is played as a support to simply burst down an enemy adc. Even you have tried to avoid Zyra making as a burst machine, she is still played like that. If you wanna make her a battle field mage (like Anivia) You have to shred her base dmg and give her better scales or rewards for items. The biggest problem is her secondary role that is a support. Yes. I still count her main role a mage. And she is doing that job on the bottom, bursting an enemy adc. It's too late to shrink down her support community, but you can make her midlane role more rewarding. I've given you a lot of ideas how to make midlane Zyra more worth, so players wouldn't just brainless go for support. You know, that feel when somebody will say: "You can do that as a support too." Her W reset ain't that strong to be honest. The only thing what has happened that midlane Zyra is pushing more. I've been asking for midlane attention of Zyra around 3 seasons already. It has started once you have nerfed Zyra, because of LCS support picks. Hopefully you undestand my current situation as the old and loyal OTP midlane Zyra main.
Shaian (EUW)
: You gotta be sure noone misunderstood your survey. I‘ve read alot of people saying new Q is better than old Q, because of the outer planthitbox. But, a circle could have that, too. I try to give few more points why the old Q was better. The only reason her Q was changed was to interact better with her passive. But, an AoE ability at a right angle to her root just sucks when you snare more than two people. The width is too low. There is only one spell in the game with an equal hitbox. Malzahars Q. Ignoring the damage values, Malzahar has +100 range, has a way less visible hitbox and offers less reaction time than Zyra. You worked on Malzahar by yourself, you know why you cant nerf how his Q works. Its not much different for Zyra. Zyras circle used to have 825 range, was nerfed to 800 for support and when you reshaped it she lost even more effective range. It didnt change much for support, but when you face stuff like Orianna with a circle and 825 range or Cass with 850 its really awkward to play against. Zyra Q is already not a spell being good to use at max range regardless of circle or rectangle, but second offers a tick too much counterplay. Maybe you can even find a best of both worlds and keep the rectangle, but reshape it by reducing length and increasing width.
> [{quoted}](name=Shaian,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9FuMtqJf,comment-id=00260005,timestamp=2018-04-02T06:10:33.261+0000) > > You gotta be sure noone misunderstood your survey. I‘ve read alot of people saying new Q is better than old Q, because of the outer planthitbox. But, a circle could have that, too. > > I try to give few more points why the old Q was better. > The only reason her Q was changed was to interact better with her passive. But, an AoE ability at a right angle to her root just sucks when you snare more than two people. The width is too low. There is only one spell in the game with an equal hitbox. Malzahars Q. Ignoring the damage values, Malzahar has +100 range, has a way less visible hitbox and offers less reaction time than Zyra. You worked on Malzahar by yourself, you know why you cant nerf how his Q works. Its not much different for Zyra. > > Zyras circle used to have 825 range, was nerfed to 800 for support and when you reshaped it she lost even more effective range. It didnt change much for support, but when you face stuff like Orianna with a circle and 825 range or Cass with 850 its really awkward to play against. Zyra Q is already not a spell being good to use at max range regardless of circle or rectangle, but second offers a tick too much counterplay. > > Maybe you can even find a best of both worlds and keep the rectangle, but reshape it by reducing length and increasing width. Exactly. I've heard riot has changed Q with E sinergy. Don't know who has ever had that idea, but it was definitely a low tier player, because people ain't just dodging on sides. They are moving forward and backward too.
iPogoZ (NA)
: Lets look at pure pen rush (orb, sorcs, void staff) Zyra vs ryze {{item:3020}} {{item:3916}} {{item:3135}} vs {{item:3027}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3070}} Ryze has 67 mr which you ignore 60 of it. Which means your doing 94% damage. I mean zyra feels bad right now because her plants and ap ratios are dam useless. But pen items are still strong and with the changes to {{item:3001}} there arent really any champs that build mr in their core items. This gives her more early to mid game damage and late game her ult is scary, expecially if paired with cc or {{item:3116}} .
> [{quoted}](name=iPogoZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9FuMtqJf,comment-id=001300000000,timestamp=2018-04-02T02:09:04.082+0000) > > Lets look at pure pen rush (orb, sorcs, void staff) > > Zyra vs ryze > {{item:3020}} {{item:3916}} {{item:3135}} vs {{item:3027}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3070}} > Ryze has 67 mr which you ignore 60 of it. Which means your doing 94% damage. > > I mean zyra feels bad right now because her plants and ap ratios are dam useless. But pen items are still strong and with the changes to {{item:3001}} there arent really any champs that build mr in their core items. This gives her more early to mid game damage and late game her ult is scary, expecially if paired with cc or {{item:3116}} . You are still 600 gold behind, because of the orb's cost. and I have already said that previously. Zyra needs some additional dmg source to deal a decent dmg. Plants are useless and have no dmg. Imagine Ryze building some additional MR item just to counter your flat magic penetration. People ain't that stupid at dia elo and more. They know how to counter magic penetration. A simple {{item:1033}} can do that. And it costs around 450g
: The point of Liandry's Torment, which Riot has repeatedly stated in the past, is to punish tanks who stack health. Just like how Blade of the Ruined King exists to punish tanks who stack health. Without these items in the game, tanks would have no reason to build MR or armor. Items like Frozen Heart and ZZrot Portal would never be picked, you would just go Cinderhulk and 4 Warmog's because health is generic. That does mean the item itself is fairly ineffective against good players who itemize properly, but the real question is: why are you trying to kill tanks as a mage? What mage can actually do this? Since the introduction of {{item:3194}} , mages have been terrible against tanks. And that's the point, tanks are supposed to absorb the damage from mages and assassins but melt against carries. If you need MR pen to kill squishies, fine. Buy {{item:3165}} . It has flat MR pen. You also get plenty from {{item:3020}} , in case you forgot. You will never kill tanks as a mage. So that's no excuse not to play Zyra mid.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9FuMtqJf,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2018-04-01T16:13:18.985+0000) > > The point of Liandry's Torment, which Riot has repeatedly stated in the past, is to punish tanks who stack health. Just like how Blade of the Ruined King exists to punish tanks who stack health. > > Without these items in the game, tanks would have no reason to build MR or armor. Items like Frozen Heart and ZZrot Portal would never be picked, you would just go Cinderhulk and 4 Warmog's because health is generic. > > That does mean the item itself is fairly ineffective against good players who itemize properly, but the real question is: why are you trying to kill tanks as a mage? What mage can actually do this? Since the introduction of {{item:3194}} , mages have been terrible against tanks. And that's the point, tanks are supposed to absorb the damage from mages and assassins but melt against carries. > > If you need MR pen to kill squishies, fine. Buy {{item:3165}} . It has flat MR pen. You also get plenty from {{item:3020}} , in case you forgot. > > You will never kill tanks as a mage. So that's no excuse not to play Zyra mid. it isn't about tanks only. The whole liandry early is now pointless especially against TF/Kassadin/Cass .etc champions who rush RoA. they usually didn't rush mercury. The point is that you need to buy ORB with costs 1 500g to get flat magic penetration. THe old liandry was also giving a nice dot that was perfect for poke.
: Switch up your items. You don't even have a mana item on that list. {{item:3285}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3165}} is a great example of a new core you could try. You can grab an extra 10% cdr from runes or you can build some more defensive/utility items like {{item:3152}} {{item:3102}} {{item:2065}} {{item:3905}} {{item:3030}}. Possible final items depend on what you need. {{item:3116}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3151}} Can even build {{item:3040}} instead of {{item:3285}} if you prefer mana, survivability, and long game over that schweet wave clear and burst. It was a mage item rework. You can't expect the same core items to work every game like they used to, that was the point of the rework, to promote game by game item decisions.
I've already wrote that many times. It isn't about items. Her core item has been nerfed. And there is no build better than the old liandry. It was perfect for early and midgame too. Instead of teaching exchallenger how to build, you should check other problems like outdated E and hard to hit Q + useless plants. Btw I have never had a problem with mana. Also I wanna see you playing against{{item:3111}}{{item:3001}} {{item:3155}} abusers .etc It seems like you didn't read a part about flat magic penetration countered by a single cheap item. all builds are situational. For example my build on-hit Zyra is good against tanky teams that have no assasins and low dmg. You didn't add {{item:3091}} {{item:3115}} {{item:3100}}. I guess you are just all others: Troll build. Instead of getting an idea how to counter early {{champion:7}} or {{champion:157}} or {{champion:55}} .etc {{item:3115}} is perfect against huge mobility targets and melee. It is also good to crush down turrets. {{item:3100}} is in the same way, but you've got to rush {{item:3089}} Also you didn't mention {{item:3152}}. Such a perfect item against full squishy teams.
Lesba Zyra (EUNE)
: CG riot. You have finally destroyed midlane Zyra
https://i.imgur.com/fZ4TlN5.png Here you can check that enemy has no MR items, so orb + pene boots are working fine, bringing Zyra's dmg into a decent spot. And since midlane Zyra depends on enemy's mr, then I had a good game, turning my late game build to crush tanks. No. The liandry is worse than Raba. And that was just D4 elo. So enemy was easily caught by E, bursted down .etc https://i.imgur.com/ABbzmS8.png But do I really need to pray for enemy builds? Is that how a midlane (battlefield) mage should be threated? Depending on flat magic penetration? Yes. Late game doesn't matter about MR, but plants that are useless, because of enemy and team fights one-shotting them. Late game Zyra with full build has nice dmg, but we all know that solo queue is about early/midgame. And her mid-game is in the weakest spot now. There is no build like the old liandry with pene + void rush.
Muzét (EUW)
: The best part is probably against a rammus. Rammus can make you utterly useless just by reflecting plants' autos. Within half a second they're dead.
Exactly. rito is talking about Zyra's power that depends on her plants. but Zyra is useful only as a burst machine. That's how she is played at bottom. They have to make plants more useful.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Useless build? yet Sorc, Lian, Rylai, Void, Rab and Ludens is the build with the highest winrate on her. And you built things like Lichbane, Wits End, Guinsoos, Nashors that are geared more for auto attackers.
Because of plants that are simply one-shotted? How can I keep my dmg up, if plants will die?
SirLapse (NA)
: She's perfectly capable of bursting people out in the mid game while being in the support position simply because all the gold is concentrated bot lane. It's more a matter of what you want to find rewarding in Zyra, and strictly looking for a LANE to do that for you instead of where you'd actually be rewarded the most is pretty narrow-minded. As long as Zyra can burst down squishies ridiculously hard with double plant E + R into Q, I do not think it is somehow justified that she gets to melt the tanks as well. Much of the reward I find in playing her is the ability to peel for the team or just straight up delete an enemy carry, which is most rewarding in the support role currently because I can start doing that from lane phase rather than mid to late. Tell me how new Liandry's makes this worse, or even changes this pattern? 1. Rush pen via whatever pen item component is available + Sorc boots for extremely oppressive early game. 2. Scale with Liandry's after buying said penetration for more damage. 3. Opt into utility like Rylai's so you can offer more than just bursty damage to your team. 4. Buy Void Staff earlier or later depending on how well-equipped their tank is. She's never been a tank-shredder for the record, and this is ESPECIALLY not true after {{item:3194}} was introduced. Junglers do not want to skip Cinderhulk for this item JUST for your Zyra pick and if the enemy top laner is AD, you won't even have to worry about Adaptive Helm in Zyra's most impactful phase of the game. The only itemization shift we've seen is Liandry's being built AFTER {{item:3916}}, which is pretty damn slot heavy but otherwise has no other weakness other than not involving {{item:3003}} which is an extremely potent item right now. You're picking a champion that intentionally wants to snowball early or roam to be successful in the game because of high base damage and lower than average scaling. "You can't rush Liandry's and do highest DPS anymore." Play around it and do not finish Liandry's. You're already getting the +10% DPS component without even finishing the item. Paired with Oblivion Orb and Sorc boots, the enemy mid laner or ADC that doesn't respect your counter-engage/all-in is going to be absolutely devastated. There's no justification to suddenly buff her AP ratios to handle tanks when it will inevitably always shaft the squishiest characters who she was already capable of deleting, save for if their enchanter support rolls their damn keyboard (in which case barely ANYONE can kill them in that scenario, not JUST Zyra).
A mage shouldn't be focused to kill only adc. They are about to deal dmg. And I have said many times. It isn't about tanks only. It's about RoD, hp users or early magic resistance like mercury, hexdrinker .etc Also sustain dmg mage like Zyra should be able to keep dmg against tanks, don't you think? That's why they call it 'sustain' dmg dealer. And you can't just burst adc alone, if enemy will not be brainless. Don't forget about protection, focus, dodges .etc This scenarion ain't that perfect.
: > I don't know, how did you allow Zyra to become a support champion over midlane. It's same with Brand. You've managed to push Annie back into midlane. So why not Zyra? Why not Brand? Because it's a good company strategy to not take people using champions in some ways and saying, "Stop that, some _minority_ doesn't like what you're doing." Brand, kit-wise, has virtually no reason to be mid when almost his entire kit benefits from having multiple enemy champions around- guess where the most champions will usually be on the map? Botlane. W- AoE, more champions - more damage E- Spreads AoE, more champions - more damage R- Jumps between champions, more champions - more damage Innate- Procs on champions, more champions - more damage Brand loves teamfights for this exact reason- what actual reason should he actually have for **not** going bot besides, "He's a mid mage?" That's not a reason- that's an excuse. Now think of all that and apply it to Zyra. Is there any benefit to going mid now? No- not really. Under virtually no circumstances will she excel against a single target like she will a group. Especially now that supports have a lot more gold available thanks to the sightstone+support item merge. Also Annie got shoved back mid by nerfing her AA range IIRC, which made it harder to fight back against ADCs. If that's what you want for Zyra, go nuts, I'm sure that won't affect her mid-lane either, right?
That means they can't get midlane buffs? Riot itself said: We wanna keep Morgana, Zyra, Brand .etc to be available for other roles too. But they have failed. They have done nothing useful for them.
iPogoZ (NA)
: Yea i mean she has low AP scaling and doesnt utilise seraph builds like most other mid laners, i think the change to mask will help her a lot Personally i think GLP would be the best upgrade of lost chapter, expecially if you picked domination so you could get ingenious hunter for item cdr. Since the plants dont proc RC sceptre i think the extra burst, the mana return and burst would feel much better than Sceptre. And would play more to her control mage style than luden. Next i would go boots into orb because of her low ratios Then probs go liandry or a situational item like qss or banshes Then go for void staff Then finish with another situational item or Dcap For runes i would go domination, Electrocute, Taste of blood or cheap shot, zombie ward, ingenious hunter. Then second path is up to preference/play style but i would probs go for scorcery, scorch, transcendence Gimmi your thoughts and dont flame me for being noob
Do you really think that I haven't tried a lot of different builds. I have already explained that. Your orb + boots are easily countered by 450 g item. I feel like only on-hit build is strong for Zyra now.
: Master players make mistakes too. Have you ever watched a T1 stream?
They do. And don't forget that I've been able to hit chall too. But I count myself as a master tier player, since that was elo of my previous seasons. I do a lot of mistakes too. For example I am trying to win 1vs1 early, but ganks. They are sitting me a lot and I let my teammates to flame me.
: This thread is full of silver players calling masters players bad. I’m loving it. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
That's a problem of Zyra. She is stronger at lower elo, because of people who don't care about her plants or they don't rush MR. Also it's easier to hit them. I've got no problem with D4 players in my elo now. I've got better mechanics than them. Unfortunately Zyra is useless against MR targets. So in the end, I can just wait for my bottom to win their lane. Even I roam a lot to keep presence, anyway everything feels like that is about to one-shot me.
: wait you were chally?last time i Q d up with you you were d1 0 lp tho
I dropped from chall, because of 14 days ban. I was able to get back into master tier. Anyway I had no motivation to stay there or anything, because of no rewards, so I dropped down again, because of my tilt. Idc about OP.GG. I know that I was able to keep myself around master tier for the whole time.
: she does have a cancerous amount of damage as support. I even buy legit support items some games and still squeeze out tons of damage. I would feel handicapped if we had a Zyra as our mid. Its like having a Garen jungler.
It's because the bottom ain't building that much MR. How many times are you able to see adc with {{item:3111}} or {{item:3155}}
: Buy Morello then?
I guess you didn't read that. So let me explain that agian. {{item:3020}} {{item:3165}} vs {{item:1033}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3155}} {{item:3211}} What did you get? +80 ap and healing reduction. That's all. With the old liandry, you had a dot that was useful for poke.
giantZorg (EUW)
: What I would like to see changed in Zyra is bringing back the old W effect of increased plant health. Admittedly, I only played Zyra support and maxed W second, but this should help midlane Zyra more as she gets a higher level -> more skillpoints. It should just be something that after a few points in W, the plants can't be taken down by a single hit. This would then require Zyra to reach a high level and/or pass out on damage from leveling the other abilities, so there is a trade-off and a choice of playstyle for the player (spell damage vs plant dps). I always maxed W second as I believe plants living longer gives more consistent damage than putting my points in Q/E. It would be something like: Plants start with 4 health (could be any number between 4 and 7) and get 1 more health for every point in W. At level 2, you put 1 point in W and the plants have 5 health. Ranged still does 4 damage, melee 8 to plants. So by the time you max W, plants have 9 health and can't be killed immediately by melee anymore. You can also adapt ranged damage to 5 and start with 5 health if you still want ranged to be able to kill them at max W. The numbers can be changed for balancing, it's the idea which matters here. About items, you are absolutely right. The buildpath looks really weird (Tear for mana -> Orb for pen -> Lyandries for dot or something stupid like this).
She needs more than lvl advantage. Her scale from items is useless at this moment.
: yeah, IMO, liandry's feels really useless rn
Exactly. It's useful only for DoT users.
KoKoboto (NA)
: YEAH GTFO SUPPORT ZYRA
It's too late to cut down a support community. But we can still fight for midlane buffs.
: I've said this multiple times since her changes, but I dunno if Riot is actually even considering anything. The first plant nerf that allows melees to one shot just about killed her. If Zyra catches you out, it's better to just turn around and smack her plants once now and kill her rather than run away because you got ambushed. Then came the AP item nerfs. I want magic pen but I don't find orb efficient enough. I want % health damage, but Liandry's does practically nothing. I would have to build two items that take up two slots to get still less efficiency than before.
You can no longer use E + W against a melee champ or someone who can one-shot the plant. It's just... pointless. +5 free gold (or 3?) I have forgotten that.
Mezo (EUNE)
: Well i decided to stop playing Zyra until riot fix her or revert patch 7.24 changes . And i can't have fun with any other champions sadly :(
Exactly. I've tried to play Syndra, Anivia or Trynda. None of them are that fun like Zyra. At least for me.
: they don't want to push zyra out of support because most of her players are support players, so you'd just upset them and remove a perfectly functional support champ from that pool. I find it bizarre that you've been playing for years where liandry's has gone on and off again whether it was meta or not but NOW its so bad you just cant play the game
I am asking for midlane buffs. Not for bottom nerfs. get your things real. Midlane should be more worth to be played as a scale mage. Bottom is here to support your adc.
Ąkąli (NA)
: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/023/987/overcome.jpg In all seriousness, I sympathize with you though. I just couldn't resist a good meme.
I've played over 5k games with her, so I guess you know that I've tried a lot of different builds.
: I more or less play her as someone who thows down seeds in a general area and try to land stun with plants and these items {{item:3151}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3089}} (not in this order cept the first three) It seems to work somewhat well for me, but their is a vast difference in elo's between you and me and it also helps the fact that people probably don't see zyra much in my elo but hey it doesn't hurt. Also as someone who's been playing her recently what rune setup do you use? I've been going summon aery, manaflow band, transcendence and Scorch with Future's Market and Cosmic Insight, and if you are feeling super nice what build do you currenty use ( not the rageblade although I wana try that one soon cause rageblade prolly my favorite item.)
I've got two runes. Elektrocuc or Comet. I feel like that I am able to win early only with Elektrocuc.
VvVVvV (NA)
: Im sorry but I find it hilarious how this person talks about how toxic the EUNE forums are and then shows a screenshot showing they reached challenger with their honor level showing DISHONORABLE LMFAO {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
The problem of EUNE is its toxicity level. It clearly pushes you to become toxic, whenever people are pinging you or they just let you play 1vs2/3 while enemy jungler is sitting on your lane. I ain't that toxic anymore. Also I've lost my challenger post, because of 14 days ban, so decay dropped me into D1 + no rewards. So I've got no use to be toxic anymore. I just wanna get rewards.
Kailyou (EUW)
: no u havent played adc zyra. u maybe played her apc on meta marksman position.
I've been trying adc Zyra with Trinity. It works fine actually. Especially against MR abusers. I was able to defeat Fiora with that build too. She was rushing MR so I was like: "Fuk that. I go ad."
Khâmul (EUW)
: Liandris is indeed weaker than the previous one when your enemy has more than 50% hp . but under 50%hp it geets stronger since the old one was scaling with current hp. so it's not that worthless. i always use{{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3135}} against tanks to increase the effectivenesss of the liandris
Yeah, but you need to shrink their HP. It's easier to burst someone with 50% hp and less than the opposite, don't you think? Also liandry isn't necesary if you will able to use your E.
sAyCo (EUNE)
: Veigar's early game is way too hard. + he needs almost 16k Golds to get into late game with an 4 items which costs a lot he is almost 500 AP including passive. with 5 items almost 700 AP. needs to hit the last item to get a full 1200+ AP. Also hes lvl 6 / 11 Ult + W is not even a 1 hit still. and needs more a teamplay to make a good fights. Zyra's late game isnt garbage i can show you a tons of videos of season 8 which shows hows her late game is really ok and fair. if Everyone is having the time to 1 shot them in a team fight i assume you don't have a team. Then Focus Adc lol.
Veigar's early is hard? Is that a joke? How about Zyra who is pushing 24h because of spawned plants and jungler coming all around while her E roots only for 0.75s. Pathetic.
Dezyrable (EUW)
: No hate but if you dropped from master to D4 in 1 weak you must have played a lot of games and you probably tilted quite hard, sure Liandry's changes weren't good for her but I don't think that's the only reason why your elo dropped so hard.
Of course I drop more when I had to look for new builds, because the liandry rush was simple lose streak. I also tried luden .etc The most effective build is oh-hit like wit's end rush or Nashoor. Anyway nothing is more effective than the old liandry. It was a great item for burst and poke.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shaian,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9FuMtqJf,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2018-03-31T14:15:25.922+0000) > > But Riot did the recent balance change as a „buff for midlane zyra“. And thats feedback towards that. Why would you tell OP to play her at Support? > > 2. yes 70% winrate at what elo? Silver. The elo Zyras recent plant HP changes were balanced for. An elo where Zyra naturally deals more damage because nobody clears her plants. > > Sorry, but Zyras plants were balanced exactly for your elo. They are not existant at the elo OP or me play at. And its super boring and frustrating to play when you see your plants instantly die. Its not fun to play since the last patch she received changes. i didnt tell himm to play her support, and im willing to bet i play her better than both of you, understanding how to safely place her plants and get maximum effectiveness is key, dont elo shame, i dont give a shit about it honestly.
You think I am not able to play Zyra after 5k games and master tier (+ last time challenger too)? Is that a joke or what. I've tried THOUSANDS of builds. THe most effective at this moment is on-hit Zyra with is fucking sad.
Borbland (EUW)
: Been playing Zyra mid since her release too, but gradually stopped playing her mid going for Vel'Koz instead. The nerfs to Zyra support are rarely compensated by buffs to Zyra mid and making her really bad.
Exactly. They only thing what has riot done for her midlane power has been giving her W reset out of creeps. Not good at all.
: {{item:3151}} Wasn't nerfed it was buffed. 1% max health from 100-0 is the same damage as 2% current health for 100-0. But the thing is you're never going to do 100-0, because you abilities that apply damage are gonna take effect first so you're gonna do 80-0 or 50-0 ect. Meaning new {{item:3151}} is always gonna do more damage. The 2-10% flat damage is more damage then flat pen would give if the only MR the person has is {{item:3111}}. Honor level 0. #getgud
So let me get it straight again. The old liandry was more usefull, because of its flat magic pene, that has been used against squishies. You could actually counter mercury by mask + void build. Now you would need to get orb too with is additional 1 500 gold. You still don't get it. The old liandry was definitely better for Zyra. It was used to poke or burst. Now it gives only sustain dmg with is useless, because of pointless plants that are simply one-shotted every single time.
sAyCo (EUNE)
: Hi there, so here is your items builds in some of the past games. https://ibb.co/efgsH7 So can you finally please buy one scepter {{item:3116}} its really cheap only 2600 Golds. Also it will help you a lot. Also Attack speed, Attack dmg items wont help you.
Rylai gives no dmg and plants are useless anyway, if people will not be brainless. Nashoor or Luden echo is fine for early, since it gives additional burst or sustain dmg. The last game I've got rylai + mask + void. Wow so much dmg (kappa). I think nashoor and raba would deal more dmg to tanks that this useless build, since I've already wrote that. the liandry's dmg is reduced by MR.
Azadethe (NA)
: It's more or less a result of the fact it's hard to balance incentives for mages to play mid, while not having the same advantage amplified while being applied to a support. If they "did things to make mid more mag pen friendly" to compare vs laning support vs a no resist adc, that advantage would only be amplified in bot. If they raise mid damage, it only amplifies the role in bot. That's why we're stuck in this extremely limited {{item:3098}} meta where if you play champs that have large collateral damage to minions, you get gold punished in bot. That's the only way they can think of to get mages to go back to mid. But good players just work right around the nerfs to the support item, while bad players get exponentially punished.
Actually there is an opinion how to scale mid over bottom. I think you didn't read my post at all. Support Zyra isn't farming. Mid does. Get it real and you can find a solution.
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Lesba Zyra

Level 122 (EUNE)
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