: I just don't get how they can profit from this. Is the app loaded with ads or something?
> [{quoted}](name=TempestDuCouteau,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=05TL4aqT,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-05T23:23:24.646+0000) > > I just don't get how they can profit from this. Is the app loaded with ads or something? Not with ads. While the application is active, it is mining cryptocurrency. It's not exactly a malware, but it does use your graphics card to do it, so in a way you are paying with small amounts of life from your graphics card.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lulu the Support,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5kzjEMo2,comment-id=000c000300000000,timestamp=2019-02-26T17:17:00.581+0000) > > I'm afraid I have to disagree. Not only me, but many others considered Aether Wing a pretty solid theme. Which is why so many people feel disconnected with the new direction of the skin. It is indeed as you say, Aether Wing was treading the line of hextech. But it was a slightly different style of hextech. Perhaps an alternative technology. Personally I don't like the style of hextech skins, but Aether Wing Kayle used to be my all time favourite to this very day. Yeah, but herein lies the problem with old Aether Wing. Hextech was a thing, and has been a thing for a LONG time in the game. So what's the purpose of having a theme that walked the edge of maaaayyyyyybe being another theme without actually being another theme. It's like those pretentious interior designers you see in movies and shows who replace one vase with an identical one, except with a different lip. When designs overlap to that extent, that's not a solid theme, that's treading way too close to an existing theme, which gives the illusion of it being solid because you're associating it with a well established theme. So it was a murky theme in reality, because it hinged to heavily on it's association with Hextech. I think the new version has done remarkably well at keeping the overall appeal of the old skin intact. It still has the turquoise beams intermingled with the wings, and the early wings still have that choppy, mechanical movement. It also tells a great story of Kayle's progression from paragon of justice into ruthless enforcer of the law.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5kzjEMo2,comment-id=000c0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-26T17:30:32.574+0000) > > Yeah, but herein lies the problem with old Aether Wing. Hextech was a thing, and has been a thing for a LONG time in the game. So what's the purpose of having a theme that walked the edge of maaaayyyyyybe being another theme without actually being another theme. It's like those pretentious interior designers you see in movies and shows who replace one vase with an identical one, except with a different lip. When designs overlap to that extent, that's not a solid theme, that's treading way too close to an existing theme, which gives the illusion of it being solid because you're associating it with a well established theme. So it was a murky theme in reality, because it hinged to heavily on it's association with Hextech. > I think the new version has done remarkably well at keeping the overall appeal of the old skin intact. It still has the turquoise beams intermingled with the wings, and the early wings still have that choppy, mechanical movement. It also tells a great story of Kayle's progression from paragon of justice into ruthless enforcer of the law. I think we have to agree to disagree. Just because the skin represented a technology similar to hextech, it doesn't mean it diminishes what it represents. You asked what's the purpose of a skin that walks the edge of maybe being from another theme, to which I have to ask you this: What's the point of having your favourite brand of yougurt, when it treads the line of maybe being made by another brand that existed for longer and is just labeled differently by that company. It is a matter of advertising and perception. And for me, Aether Wing was THE BEST theme in the game. Period.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lulu the Support,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5kzjEMo2,comment-id=000c0003,timestamp=2019-02-25T15:55:44.656+0000) > > Yes, nobody said the new look is bad. But they, as you have suggested, should have made an ultimate skinline for her like Gundam Kayle, or something along those lines and kept the core style of Aether Wing Kayle close to the original. THIS is the issue people are complaining about, nobody is saying the 3rd and 4th forms look bad. On the contrary, they look amazing! But they look amazing for a gundam/mecha skin, not Aether Wing. The thing is, the original Aether Wing's design and concept was very nebulous to begin with. It's much older, and kind of tread into what became Hextech territory, while also still being it's own kind of thing. I don't think it necessarily had a solid design from the start, and what design it did have kind of lost it's impact with the creation of the gemstone Hextech skins, so I think the new direction is really good for it. It's hard to keep something close to the original when the original didn't really have that solid of a theme.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5kzjEMo2,comment-id=000c00030000,timestamp=2019-02-25T16:02:13.232+0000) > > The thing is, the original Aether Wing's design and concept was very nebulous to begin with. It's much older, and kind of tread into what became Hextech territory, while also still being it's own kind of thing. I don't think it necessarily had a solid design from the start, and what design it did have kind of lost it's impact with the creation of the gemstone Hextech skins, so I think the new direction is really good for it. It's hard to keep something close to the original when the original didn't really have that solid of a theme. I'm afraid I have to disagree. Not only me, but many others considered Aether Wing a pretty solid theme. Which is why so many people feel disconnected with the new direction of the skin. It is indeed as you say, Aether Wing was treading the line of hextech. But it was a slightly different style of hextech. Perhaps an alternative technology. Personally I don't like the style of hextech skins, but Aether Wing Kayle used to be my all time favourite to this very day.
: I actually really liked Aetherwing's new design. It feels almost like an Ultimate skin.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5kzjEMo2,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-02-21T20:24:45.590+0000) > > I actually really liked Aetherwing's new design. It feels almost like an Ultimate skin. Yes, nobody said the new look is bad. But they, as you have suggested, should have made an ultimate skinline for her like Gundam Kayle, or something along those lines and kept the core style of Aether Wing Kayle close to the original. THIS is the issue people are complaining about, nobody is saying the 3rd and 4th forms look bad. On the contrary, they look amazing! But they look amazing for a gundam/mecha skin, not Aether Wing.
nNagato (NA)
: Why I think Riot got it wrong with the update on Aether Wing Kayle (Not about it looks good or not)
I think her third form should look something along those lines: https://i.imgur.com/YgvJ0Pj.png[\img] https://i.imgur.com/FR3Okt9.png[\img] And the 4th form should just make thrusters on the wings effect permanent. But I would argue the effect needs to be whiteish-blue or blueish-white instead of yellow, similar to how her sword used to glow in the old E, however that is an entirely different discussion.
Μegumin (EUNE)
: Unfortunately i'm sure riot will do nothing about this becouse they already did this before with frostblade irelia, such a nice skin before turned into a completly different skin becouse rito tought just staying to ice theme and emphasizing butt meme would be enough, but it's a completely different skin now, it looks like winter wonder irelia
Although I do agree Riot will probably completely ignore us, I have to disagree with one point you made. Yes, frostbite Irelia was arguably reworked into a worse skin, but at least they kept the theme. In this case however, they changed the theme of the skin from Aether Wing to Gundam/Mecha. A decision that I do not understand in the slightest. If they were so excited to give us a Gundam Kayle, why not make a new skin? Why delete an old skin line and replace it with something that has nothing to do with the original?
: Aether Wing went from being the sleekest Kayle skin to the bulkiest and shittiest, what the fuck was Riot thinking. Everything I liked about the skin is gone now, they even changed the recall animation (with the cool audio) into some low tech jetpack crap. She doesn't even have a unique death animation. RIP my first League purchase. Frostblade Irelia wasn't enough I guess, Riot can't seem to stop ruining aesthetics for no good reason .
Aether Wing Kayle was also my first League purchase! It was for such a long time my favourite skin in the game! And if the rework kept her true to the original, it would have still been! I feel ripped off by Riot. I paid for something and now they steal it from me, giving me something else in return. Something I don't want nor like! I will surely spam the player support with requests to refund me for this purchase (and I know they will refuse, because it's against their policy, that's why I said spam)!
: > [{quoted}](name=Lulu the Support,realm=EUNE,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=8lRl2jqv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-24T15:36:48.827+0000) > > How did you do this? I always wondered. When I post I only use links and it looks so bad :( Well I’m not 100% sure I’m still trying to learn myself But o just copied the picture off of a random website (not the link) And this was the result.(not certain it will work but try that)
Yes, but how did you put the copied picture into the post? Theres no upload image button.
: Which Samus are we talking about? The one whos wearing armor and exists solely as a vessel for the player or the one wearing _a skintight bodysuit, shaking her boobs and her butt around like some playboy bunny_? Because I'm pretty sure more people are familiar to the later. I mean wait {{champion:429}} we {{champion:254}} only {{champion:420}} have {{champion:131}} one {{champion:89}} strong{{champion:133}} nonsexualized{{champion:113}} female {{champion:163}} champion {{champion:164}} around (any yordle here) right {{champion:127}} guys?
> [{quoted}](name=Poop Johnson,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Kscg9mP7,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-24T00:10:53.445+0000) > > Which Samus are we talking about? The one whos wearing armor and exists solely as a vessel for the player or the one wearing _a skintight bodysuit, shaking her boobs and her butt around like some playboy bunny_? Because I'm pretty sure more people are familiar to the later. > > I mean wait {{champion:429}} we {{champion:254}} only {{champion:420}} have {{champion:131}} one {{champion:89}} strong{{champion:133}} nonsexualized{{champion:113}} female {{champion:163}} champion {{champion:164}} around (any yordle here) right {{champion:127}} guys? I'm sure one day we will have a Leona rework. And her base skin will probably look as if she's wearing a swimsuit. It's gonna be hillarious XD
Tikoo (EUNE)
: Popular Opinion: RIOT THANK YOU FOR AETHER WING KAYLE <3 It is an Insta-buy for many of us
I think you misunderstand what the community is trying to voice. If she has to be so different why not make a new skin altogether. Theres no point in deleting an old skin idea (Aether Wing) and replace it with something completely different (Gundam). Please understand that what we want is not the removal of Gundam Kayle. On the contrary, it is something I highly support, it looks awesome! But make it as a new skin, not by replacing a skinline so many people loved.
: JusT trying to find out how to post pics ignore this.
How did you do this? I always wondered. When I post I only use links and it looks so bad :(
333lom (EUNE)
: Here are my edits for Kayle's base visuals
This is so amazing! I would actually pay big bucks for this if they decided to release a "Traditional Kayle" skin that looked like this!
Tikoo (EUNE)
: I never post on these boards, but after seeing this troll post i have decided to make a post, Your complains are all useless, you are bashing a skin because of the BEST FEATURES, the level 11 and level 16 transformations are epic! and i will buy the skin for sure and many of my friends will too, drastically changing the appearance will remove the uniqueness and epicness the skin has to offer. I repeat, the skin is perfect, the only thing i was disappointed with was the level 1-6 look with the old aether kayle look, i didnt wait for a rework over 5 years to get same kayle skin that i stopped playing before. The NEW KAYLE ROCKS and the aether wing kayle ROCKS!
Sure, I am 100% certain there are thousands of people who adore the new 3rd and 4th forms, but thats why they should have just made a new skin for her (gundam Kayle or something along those lines). If they did that, even the issue you pointed out (that you don't like her first 2 forms) would be addressed, because the skin would have a more cohesive theme and the first 2 forms would probably match the 3rd and 4th. Instead what they did was "Ok, lets delete Aether wing from the game and make something new instead".
Melismera (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Incendious,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Ma7zyjZ7,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-02-23T17:03:24.612+0000) > > Similar thing goes for Aatrox, people bought the skins for him and then rito removed him from the game. what skin they remove?
He probably means that they "removed the champion" as in he has a completely different playstyle and went from fighter/diver to tank. And if you don't like the new playstlye of a champion, of course you will be pissed that you wasted money on skins for him.
nNagato (NA)
: Why I think Riot got it wrong with the update on Aether Wing Kayle (Not about it looks good or not)
Thank you for putting into objective and concise words what many of us were too frustrated and enraged to express correctly ourselves. Indeed, I feel like I paid for something and that thing was stolen from me by the same company that sold it. If they wanted so much a new gundam skin for Kayle, fine, but why ruin an old awesome skinline instead of simply making a new skin?
Doge2020 (NA)
: I feel like there would be something more than just “more wings” to emphasize what form Kayle is in. idk that much about the Aether Wing concept so I can’t really help with finding different forms for Kayle’s 3rd and 4th forms. I really like how Aether Kayle’s 4th form looks but based on what you said and what other people have been saying, it might be better if that form was the same color as the other forms or had a very slight color change.
My beef with her current 3rd and 4th forms is how tanky and bulky they look. She completely loses her elegance
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Lulu the Support,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n5QR64r0,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-02-21T14:58:38.872+0000) > > I doubt anyone would get confused. It's pretty easy to check what level she is. And you don't even have to see. Generally players have similar levels at all times, so you can assume around which stage she is just by looking at the general level of the other players. i understand. but visual clarity is important in a game like this. just yesterday i saw hashinshin die to a {{champion:19}} gank with the lunar guardian skin, where he said he couldnt see warwicks e because "the skin is constantly glowing". it was just hard to make out that he even had the ability activated, and tbh. i didnt really see it either in that moment. in the heat of the moment, making kayle look like she didnt ascend already might cause confusion for some people.
You are right, I concede this point. However, as I have mentioned in a different reply, there are numerous ways in which they could provide the approrpiate visual cues, in which I even suggested a few ideas that were on top of my head: > Secondly, I understand your concern and if Riot is really that preoccupied with the lack of a visual cue, I do feel it can be easily solved by adding 2 slim floating wingblades around her, similar to how 3rd form added one, by making the sword shine, similar to her pre-rework E, by making the wings glow blue instead of yellow, or by making them glow brighter, etc. There are many easy ways to fix this issue, so the only question remains if Riot cares enough about the opinion of the people who think this skin was ruined.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lulu the Support,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n5QR64r0,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-02-21T15:17:50.352+0000)First, I would like to point out that visual cues are not necessary... Part of Riot's stated design goals is a focus on visual clarity across the board, and I feel this suggestion detracts from that heavily. That said, I'm personally with you on not being super thrilled about the last two forms -- the final one especially. But I think adjusting those two would be preferably to the suggestion you proposed.
Ok, then I concede my first point. But the second still remains. Additionally, the solutions I proposed were just at the top of my head. I am certain there are some really inventive Rioters who could come with even more clever solutions than mine.
: theyre not going to do that, because it would reduce visual clarity. her transformations and her changing model are a general indicator for how powerful she currently is. its not just an accessory like aatrox banner wings or kaisas helmet. if youd allow her to return to her second form at lvl 11, people might get confused why she auto attacks at range even though she looks like she shouldnt. i understand that you can just look at her level, but its still something riot probably wont do. i also understand why you want it. her third and fourth form on the aether wing kayle skin looks like ass. i dont even know what her wings are supposed to be. they just look deformed. so glad right now that i have both, the aether wing kayle skin shard and the pentakill skin shard. the pentakill skin actually looks better than her legendary, and im going to unlock that. unless judgement kayle is better than both of them. edit.: holy fuck, judgement kayle looks awesome. im so glad i have that.
I doubt anyone would get confused. It's pretty easy to check what level she is. And you don't even have to see. Generally players have similar levels at all times, so you can assume around which stage she is just by looking at the general level of the other players. But also on the matter of visual cues, as I already responded to someone else, there are many easy ways to fix it: > Secondly, I understand your concern and if Riot is really that preoccupied with the lack of a visual cue, I do feel it can be easily solved by adding 2 slim floating wingblades around her, similar to how 3rd form added one, by making the sword shine, similar to her pre-rework E, by making the wings glow blue instead of yellow, or by making them glow brighter, etc. There are many easy ways to fix this issue, so the only question remains if Riot cares enough about the opinion of the people who think this skin was ruined.
: I can't see this as being possible, given that for GGMF and DJ Sona those forms are not related to any specific power point, while on Aether Wing Kayle it's the visual cue to let you immediately know how powerful she is at any given point in time. Being able to control which form you're in seems like it would be confusing, especially as some of the animations are form-specific (such as E's casting when ascended and dealing AoE damage).
First, I would like to point out that visual cues are not necessary, as a champion's level is clearly displayed near their health bar and her passive is strongly tied with level. Secondly, I understand your concern and if Riot is really that preoccupied with the lack of a visual cue, I do feel it can be easily solved by adding 2 slim floating wingblades around her, similar to how 3rd form added one, by making the sword shine, similar to her pre-rework E, by making the wings glow blue instead of yellow, or by making them glow brighter, etc. There are many easy ways to fix this issue, so the only question remains if Riot cares enough about the opinion of the people who think this skin was ruined. Personally I will be very dissatisfied if they do nothing, because the form after 11 looks nothing like the skin I paid money for.
: theyre not going to do that, because it would reduce visual clarity. her transformations and her changing model are a general indicator for how powerful she currently is. its not just an accessory like aatrox banner wings or kaisas helmet. if youd allow her to return to her second form at lvl 11, people might get confused why she auto attacks at range even though she looks like she shouldnt. i understand that you can just look at her level, but its still something riot probably wont do. i also understand why you want it. her third and fourth form on the aether wing kayle skin looks like ass. i dont even know what her wings are supposed to be. they just look deformed. so glad right now that i have both, the aether wing kayle skin shard and the pentakill skin shard. the pentakill skin actually looks better than her legendary, and im going to unlock that. unless judgement kayle is better than both of them. edit.: holy fuck, judgement kayle looks awesome. im so glad i have that.
I doubt anyone would get confused. It's pretty easy to check what level she is. And you don't even have to see. Generally players have similar levels at all times, so you can assume around which stage she is just by looking at the general level of the other players.
Rioter Comments
: Reworked Aether Wing Kayle Design
I hope that for this skin they decide to let us choose which form we want to display once the said form is unlocked. For example with Ctrl+5 similar to how DJ Sona or GG Miss Fortune do it.
: Aether Wing Kayle final form looks pretty bad
There seem to ba a pretty high number of people who do not like the direction of the last 2 Aether Wing Kayle evolutions. I understand that changing them would be impossible considering the time and effort already invested into this, but could we get the option to choose which form to use once we unlock it (Ctrl+5)? Similar to how GGMF and DJ sona choose their forms?
: Reworked Aether Wing Kayle Design
I completely agree with what you said. The last 2 forms are really well made, but don't belong on Aether Wing. They belong on a mecha/PROJECT skin that I would not have purchased even if it was 750 RP simply because it is not a style I like. The first 2 forms represent the skin so much better and manage to keep the spirit and elegance of the original one. I would even beg riot to remove the last 2 forms and make them a separate skin, but the effort needed to make this change seems so big that I am scared they will ignore us and let this be the final version :(
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 30
Can Lulu get her shield duration back? The meta has shifted a lot since her nerf and enchanter supports are a lot less useful now. I would also like to point out that I unintentionally started using her E exclusively to poke enemies now as opposed to sometmes shield my adc. This is probably because in the back of my mind shielding them is completely pointless since it disappears instantly and would rather burst enemies down with poke and electrocute/dark harvest. Overall, my experience with playing her is a lot less enjoyable (to the point where I started playing other champions). I play support because I like helping others, not bursting down enemies. If I wanted to play a burst mage, I'd go mid and play assassin or something... Secondly, I would like to request sightstone being reintroduced as a buyable item. I'm sure quest items are really great for some people, so I don't mind keeping those in the game, but for me, it's really annoying when the enemies hug the tower and it's impossible to poke them for the quest. Leaving me and adc vulnerable to ganks a LOT longer than with the old sightstone. I value vision very much and would not mind at all if I had to invest even more gold into a sightstone than in the past (increase sightstone cost to 1200g for example so that quest items are still viable for others). Sincerely a concerned ex-support main.
: > Also, if you feel like there’s something that we're not doing that you think would be a big improvement to the game, we’d love to hear it. 1. Revert Runes Reforged to literally any runes/masteries state that doesn't include keystones. 2. Keep reverting the class updates. 3. Don't let CertainlyT near the game anymore. That's the big three.
Words of wisdom have been spoken.
: We're trying to keep the stat choices simple and clear so we want to limit the amount of options to 3-4 offense and 3-4 defense currently. We're still iterating on and testing the different choices so "honorable mention" stats that we've considered but aren't currently our top picks include things like pen and scaling resists.
I think scaling resistances should be considered as well for the defensive stats. I used to be able to spend all my gold on AP thanks to the old scaling resistance runes, but without them, that strategy is impossible without buying at least 1 defensive item.
DaCurtis (OCE)
: My Honor level is STUCK
It's almost the end of the season and I'm still honor level 2 with 3 checkpoints. Didn't receive any punishment, this must be bugged.
: > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=H9b9Ekqw,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-08T16:40:06.475+0000) > > Something along the lines of &#x27;pick your stat of choice&#x27; or &#x27;pick a primary stat you get some of and a secondary stat you get less of&#x27;. Still figuring out details. i dont get why u suck at balancing so hard, so let me get this straight the things we been complaining about for...well...since u changed em....took you how long exactly of us screaming at you that its bad before you even consider it for your backwards buffs? lemme extend an olive branch.... backwards buffs=damage to high? better nerf electro.....buuuuuuuut since we are nerfing it we gonna buff these people to compensate...... wasnt the nerf suppose to be to damage to begin with? why take -10 from electro then add 10 to the specific champion? why not tone all the damage down? actually i know, its to much work considering u spent the last 2 years raising all the damage so you cant do it in one swing so it wont happen..... starting to reconsider the whole dont have to play the game to balance it? or are we still in delusion land where damage nerfs are nerfs to damage that are immediately followed by damage buffs? i dont think you know how changing stuff works, if you want the damage to go down.....you put the damage down.......without buffing them up and if your concerned with "well this champ wont do enough damage, or this champ isnt tanky enough" then well, maybe you shouldnt have taken a strat game and make it into a fps shooter where people die in one second and you wouldnt have this problem be this big but like wow like league, with you at the helm its been and is continuing to head......right down the shitter keep up the horrible work meddler, from unranked to pros alike, your balancing is crap....dont take my word for it, look at any pro about balance in the last 2 years and tell me if it got better or worse dont hate me when you find the answer, they said it not me, i just told you to look
The language you used was a bit offensive, but unfortunately every word was true :( It breaks my heart to see League in this state for so long.
: You are right, it seems I do not know my champion. Because her shield isn't half of Brand's W, it's LESS THAN A THIRD!!! While Brand will max W first as his primary source of damage, Lulu maxes Q first. Meaning her shield protects 70 damage!! Compare that to the 255 damage of a maxed Brand W. On top of that, you mentioned how both skills have a 60% AP scaling, but completely missed to point out the fact that Brand will build AP items while Lulu builds utility. So my previous comment was generous in Brand's favour. In reality it's even worse than that! I hope pointing this out will wake you up to reality. It seems you are the one who doesn't know his champions... Conclusion: You play AP mages as support but have no clue whatsoever how this game works.
I was about to write a replay to your last message, but then I looked up your rank on op.gg and realized there is no point in talking with you. You are not worth my time. Have a nice day!
jadelink (OCE)
: The old sightstone was 'optional', just as winning is optional. There are optimal build paths that you followed if you wanted to win, and were raged at for deviating from. The moment that sightstone is even remotely viable, it's mandatory, there isn't much wriggle room at all.
Beforehand the only option to get a sightstone was buying it, so perhaps the team would get mad if you didn't get it, but what I propose is having both the quest for those who don't want to invest and a purchaseable sightstone. Every support will ultimately get it. It is just a matter of "Do I want a sightstone before min 13 or not?". The crucial part of the game where vision is needed a lot and the team demands wards from the support is usually the mid game, so I highly doubt anyone would flame a support who opts for the quest instead of buying the sightstone.
: You are right, it seems I do not know my champion. Because her shield isn't half of Brand's W, it's LESS THAN A THIRD!!! While Brand will max W first as his primary source of damage, Lulu maxes Q first. Meaning her shield protects 70 damage!! Compare that to the 255 damage of a maxed Brand W. On top of that, you mentioned how both skills have a 60% AP scaling, but completely missed to point out the fact that Brand will build AP items while Lulu builds utility. So my previous comment was generous in Brand's favour. In reality it's even worse than that! I hope pointing this out will wake you up to reality. It seems you are the one who doesn't know his champions... Conclusion: You play AP mages as support but have no clue whatsoever how this game works.
Also I noticed you assumed a lot of things about how I play Lulu without bothering to see what builds I use when I play Lulu on op.gg. Lulu is such a versatile champion and she can be viable with so many builds and playstyles. That is exactly why I love her so much! Next time get your fact checking straight before bashing me with "facts" about how I should win against Brand "easily". Have a nice day.
: You are right, it seems I do not know my champion. Because her shield isn't half of Brand's W, it's LESS THAN A THIRD!!! While Brand will max W first as his primary source of damage, Lulu maxes Q first. Meaning her shield protects 70 damage!! Compare that to the 255 damage of a maxed Brand W. On top of that, you mentioned how both skills have a 60% AP scaling, but completely missed to point out the fact that Brand will build AP items while Lulu builds utility. So my previous comment was generous in Brand's favour. In reality it's even worse than that! I hope pointing this out will wake you up to reality. It seems you are the one who doesn't know his champions... Conclusion: You play AP mages as support but have no clue whatsoever how this game works.
There's so many things I have to respond to your last comment I'm not even sure where to begin. > [{quoted}](name=TomiMan7,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=H9b9Ekqw,comment-id=00450000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-09T18:57:41.246+0000) > >At this point why dont you play an ap support and actually be usefull? I play Lulu and not an AP mage because I like the champion, her whimsical theme and her kit. My favourite part about Lulu is having a cute pixie flying after you that you can "command" and put on any unit you want. No other champion has this cute little feature. >yes builds utility, ardent cancer for example witch gives 60 ap Regarding buying ardent, I never build it. Don't like that item. Even when everyone was crazy about it pre nerf. I usually go Zeke's, shurelia and maybe some defensive items. If I feel wild I sometimes buy Redemption and Locket as last items. If you think I'm lying, feel free to look up my match history on op.gg and see my usual builds. >runes give you an approximate of 40 The runes I use give me only 20 AP, not 40. >spelltiefs gives you 20, plus +10shield and heal power. Spellthief's I admit gives a bit of AP, but I don't usually run items that give me bonus shield and heal power like you said and if I do, I build them as late game items. >plus aery I dont use aery, I run electrocute or when I feel wild, meteor, but usually electrocute. > Imagine that you would actually know how to play lulu maxing E, brand woukdnt even be able to penetrate your shield. That is assuming there is a CORRECT way to play Lulu. But everyone is different and everyone has different playstyle they enjoy. What you are saying is that I should be a sheep and play Lulu like all the other sheep in the flock, maxing E, staying back, falling asleep from boredom and waiting to shield my adc from dmg when he is about to receive it, when my playstyle is completely different from other supports. > You arw wellcome i thought you [know] how to play lulu. I know how OTHER people play Lulu, and how you probably THINK is the right way to play her, but that is boring and non-interactive. Just a bunch of sheep following the meta. I play Lulu MY style, being proactive, not sitting back, half asleep spamming E on my adc.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: Well if you max Q then maybe... Lulu shield shields for 210 +60%AP. Thats not 2x compared to brands w which deals 255 base +60%ap. So good thing you know your main 😂😂. Conclusion:you main lulu but you cant play her.
You are right, it seems I do not know my champion. Because her shield isn't half of Brand's W, it's LESS THAN A THIRD!!! While Brand will max W first as his primary source of damage, Lulu maxes Q first. Meaning her shield protects 70 damage!! Compare that to the 255 damage of a maxed Brand W. On top of that, you mentioned how both skills have a 60% AP scaling, but completely missed to point out the fact that Brand will build AP items while Lulu builds utility. So my previous comment was generous in Brand's favour. In reality it's even worse than that! I hope pointing this out will wake you up to reality. It seems you are the one who doesn't know his champions... Conclusion: You play AP mages as support but have no clue whatsoever how this game works.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: Honestly me neither. I like how luxs shield works. Its a skillshot, you are rewarded if you hit both side, not like a point and click thing. Thats what annoys me the most. It takes no skill to save an adc. Thats why i like these nerfs since now you atleast have to think about wheter to shield or not. Than you are going for a lane bully lulu. That should definitely give a hard time to a brand.
You do realize brand W does 2x more than Lulu's shield, right? Brand ruins Lulu in lane if he has any idea how to play the champion.
: Please Nerf WINDWALL, most toxic ability in the game 🙁🙁😕😕😕. I beg of you
While you expressed yourself crudely, I do agree with you. Players don't hate Yasuo because his damage, tornado or dashes, but the windwall. It is one of the most frustrating abilities to play against and I lost count of how many times my ultimates have been negated by one of his basic abilities only for him to proceed and win a 1v3 against us afterwards.
jadelink (OCE)
: The moment old sightstone returns, it's going to be mandatory, and induce so much rage against supports, and that I for one will be refusing to support again until it goes.
What I am suggesting is not a mandatory sightstone but an optional one. Perhaps give us the ability to instantly complete the quest for sightstone by paying for it. Or just a separate item from the starting items, but keep the quest too. I just want an option for those of us who would rather invest in vision early than other items, while also having the option to wait for the quest completion.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: I mean if an ap sup misses ecerything that opens up an opportunity to retaliate on him while he has nothing, so in that case thats a dead support for the enemy. Well im in the top 2,9k players who play brand on eune, was the top 838th when i checked so i know stuff too :) and even an avarage lulu will be a pain in the ass cos if you play right, and the right play is to play aggressive against a brand a constantly harass him, you will beat him. Lulu has the advantage that no other supp has. Her passive triggers spellthiefs, and applies the bonus dmg, and gold proc. Also brands standard combo requires him to be in a 625range(e,q,w). That way lulu can easily poly into w q ignite, and since her base dmgs are as high if not higher than brands she can also "oneshot" brand. Well, yeah lets hope dmg will be more evenly spread out, but than again wouldn't that kind of shield be even more op? You wouldnt just block one portion of the dmg, but you could block even more, since you would have a shield that lasts longer.
XD I'm not sure what kind of shield you imagine there. Lulu's shield is pretty small, usually broken by only 2 adc auto attacks at early levels and it gets even worse later into the game if you dont build her full AP. If it's Jhin, even at early levels the auto might be even stronger than the shield. Especially since I max Q first.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: Shields should be applied if the dmg comes. The skill involves(should) the supports judgement whether its a real threat or not. If the support can decide in time and applies the shield correctly good, your adc wont die othervise the shield shouldnt stay there for ages, long enough for it to come off of cd, and you should be punished for a bad decision. On brand:lulu is counter dor him, since you can just poli him, and then he is f.ed. A good lulu can win against a brand easily.
So you are saying that if the enchanter support makes one mistake his adc is bye bye, meanwhile for the AP support it doesn't matter if he makes a mistake and misses his burst combo because he can just try it again when shield is down. Don't you think that's a bit unfair? On brand: im 770k mastery on Lulu so I think I know pretty well what I'm doing since I consistantly get S on her more than 50% of the time. By now I've tried every strategy possible, but against a GOOD brand the only choice is hugging tower. Sure, if the brand is bad, I ruin him, but that is true for basically any champion. Polymorph takes time to activate and has a very low range. A good Brand player will stun you then burst you before the poly goes off if you even have time to cast it. Perhaps you need more experience playing against Lulu. P.S. Even if by some chance Lulu manages to poly Brand before he can do anything, it lasts only 2 seconds. Lulu is not an assassin, nor an AP mage, she won't be able to kill him in that time. As soon as the poly expires a good Brand will turn Lulu into Ashe(s) (sorry I couldn't refrain myself from using this pun XD). P.P.S. > [{quoted}](name=TomiMan7,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=H9b9Ekqw,comment-id=004500000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-08T21:54:20.949+0000) > > the shield shouldnt stay there for ages, long enough for it to come off of cd, and you should be punished for a bad decision. I already said the shield CD should probably increase, but the duration of the shield should be longer. A.K.A. no permashields! Also we are not talking about the current burst meta, but the future meta in which damage will be more evenly spread, like in the past. Cheers!
woobly (EUNE)
: Thanks for your advice, but... I already tried... lots of people flamed me that Pyke was just released and that Rakan is here so there is enough supports apparently according to other people... smh
Tbh I've been waiting for a new enchanter support for a long time too. I've been really disappointed with what we got recently (Spike [I know it's Pyke but I like insulting him by calling him by my dog's name] and Rakan), I don't even consider them supports. They basically embody what is wrong with the current meta. Burst dmg + CC one target while whole team collapses on target to burst them down. Bard was the last enchanter support we got, but he is really weird for my taste and hard to use in SoloQ properly.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: Still, i main support too, though the other end of the spectrum(ap dmg supports) and its just pure cancer that the enemy support would just shield thier adc, if i wanted to go in for a trade(did nothing just position myself aggressively). If you wait out the shield, almost all support could apply another shield if you attempted to trade(not post nerf janna though). Thats everything but skill expressive, i hope we all can agree on that. I wouldnt mind if shields got a buff, if they would be more skillfull then oh heres a shield ill have another one anyways before this one wears out.
I wouldn't mind longer CD on shields, but having a shield for 2 seconds is ridiculous, especially for a support that built full AP late game and has a huge shield that will never get used because it expires too fast. Tl;dr: in a meta with non-burst damage 2 seconds shield would be almost useless. P.S. Another point I would like to address though is that you mentioned waiting out the enemy support shield before trying to one shot the enemy adc, but you should also consider the perspective of the enemy support. They will feel useless and unable to do anything to help his adc, just like you would feel if the enemy support could perma shield the adc. A middle ground should be met imo, and that is probably longer CD on shields. P.P.S. Speaking of cancer, do you know how frustrating it is to lane against a brand support as Lulu? XD Even with her old 6 second shield, it was meaningless. Brand could still burst me down through it. One of the most frustrating match-ups I've played as a support. Shortening the length of the shield just put the nail in the coffin when it comes to laning against him. What I'm trying to say is not that it's justified to buff our shields but rather that laning against certain AP mages even with the old shield was and still is really frustrating to play against. You have to stay very defensive, often with low health under tower and it's not fun at all. :(
woobly (EUNE)
: I absolutely agree. And, if I may add, a squishy, AP passive support hasn't been added to the game for 6 years already! Last was {{champion:267}} 6 years ago! I think that we deserve a new one... there is so much untapped potential! I have ideas for at least a dozen abilities, please, message me, devs, if you struggle :D
I think the devs might be too busy to message you directly. Instead I recommend trying to make a thread with your ideas explained in a clear and concise manner, hoping a rioter will notice them and propose them to the champion dev team ^_^
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: Hell no... Lulu could have a shield on her adc permanently with lvl1 E and 35%CdR. Thats bs. If anything make shields more skill expressive, and dont revert those changes.
But nobody has ever complained about Lulu's shield in past seasons. You are saying this now because your most recent memory of it is from the current meta, but try to remember that before the runes were reworked nobody was playing Lulu as a support. I agree that her 6 seconds shield is too oppressive in this meta, but it was never an issue beforehand. Plus, we are not talking just about Lulu, but all the supports whose shields were nerfed recently.
: League gameplay changes over the next few months
Additionally I would like to enquire about support items. More specifically sightstone. You guys said players feel better about purchasing spike items first rather than sightstone, but I am sure there are others such as myself that value vision a lot more and felt really good about buying that item. I was especially happy when me and the adc managed to turn around an early gank, get 3 kills and buy a really early sightstone that would protect us from future ganks. That is no longer an option since the "sightstone" is now time gated. Any chance you guys could introduce the old sightstone as an alternative for people who would rather buy vision than spike items? P.S. I also really liked the old quest reward of spellthief's edge. It was quite useful for non mobile squishy supports in a meta where most champions have 1 or 2 dashes in their kit. Any chance you guys will ever introduce that movement speed burst mechanic on a support item again? Stormrazor seems to be acting similarly, but it is not an item that would be useful at all on a support. :(
: League gameplay changes over the next few months
I am SO happy to hear about those changes! It is exactly what the community has been demanding for months! I do have a small concern however. There were specific changes to champions that happened BECAUSE of the burst meta but which were not really an issue beforehand, when tanky supports were reigning over the bot lane. One very good example of this are the shield changes on Janna, Lulu, Oriana. Their shields weren't an issue beforehand because the damage was more spread out, but with the burst meta, having an almost permanent shield on you prevented enemies from one shotting their target. I am curious if you guys will consider reverting those nerfs once the meta settles in a less bursty one. Sincerely, A concerned enchanter support main.
: SaneOrLULU ?
> [{quoted}](name=OatheSworn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TZMQZtie,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-03T17:30:17.776+0000) > > SaneOrLULU > > ? I'm not quite sure what the Sane Or before Lulu means. Would you care to explain please? :-?
: It's better not to mention "banning" of any sort in your name regarding your main, otherwise you could end up in games where someone on your team sees your name, thinks "oh good idea" and bans the champion.
> [{quoted}](name=Leaf of the lake,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TZMQZtie,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-03T17:33:40.676+0000) > > It&#x27;s better not to mention &quot;banning&quot; of any sort in your name regarding your main, otherwise you could end up in games where someone on your team sees your name, thinks &quot;oh good idea&quot; and bans the champion. Thanks for the heads up!
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Lulu the Support

Level 178 (EUNE)
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