mc4life (EUNE)
: Explanation of what's toxic and what's not.
Honestly the whole automated punishment process is a joke. I get chat restrictions all the time for stuff [like this](https://i.imgur.com/G512GLF.jpg) just because the bot isn't smart enough and just catches keywords (this is from my active restriction card), same for my last one, someone said in allchat "Nergal I wish your whole family dies" then in the postgame lobby he said "Please x9 nergal for flame" and because I said "are you serious you wish for my family to die in allchat so even the enemies saw it and now you expect them to report me?" and obviously bot only saw "wish family die" in 1 sentence and punished me. There has been literally only 1 game recently that I was annoying but getting punished just for 1 game that you may tilt is just crazy. For those who say you can avoid being stressed, just no... I'm not saying you can't but it's not natural. If suddenly someone who is duo decides to troll and doesn't surrender along with his buddy and they decide to fool around and not do anything other than farm or spam their abilities on their own team and just follow them around and do nothing else (I'm not talking about being bad but actually trolling) but even then you can still manage to drag the game for 30min+ even if it's 4v5, these are 30 minutes that you're literally prisoner in the game, muting them doesn't help obviously as the issue isn't flaming, you just have to sit there for 30 minutes where literally 2 people waste 30min of their life just so they mess up 30min of your life and if you decide to close the game as you should then you're the one who can get punished for leaving. It's no different than putting a gun on my head and forcing me to watch my desktop wallpaper for 30min as far as I'm concerned. If you can not get stressed in that situation and just randomly accept that a random kid across the world can torture you for 30minutes then like I said it's not a natural reaction.
zPOOPz (NA)
: I don't believe you receive a key every 3rd day (some keys, yes. Not every 3rd day).... If the last time you received a punishment was 4 years ago, unless you haven't played any games at all during that 4 years period, it is more than enough to de-escalate with regular plays. No offense, but your story does not checked out with what we know (unless of course you haven't played much at all for 4 years) and I will say there are much details missing in this story. If you adamantly claim it's true and you haven't de-escalate from 4 years of play, then submit a support ticket and plead your case. Side note, getting honor and receiving keys is not proof that you de-escalate your toxicity. You can passively rise in honor while still being mildly toxic enough to keep your account at risk of punishment.
Well mechanically at least I'm fairly good and as I play a lot of arams I tend to carry a lot of those games and it's not uncommon to receive about 3 honors per hour. I don't understand why you're so sceptic about it. About the story not checking out again I don't understand why I would lie about the account date. [Here's a ticket](https://i.imgur.com/0hr8VWQ.jpg) I made asking for an appeal that shows a date when the 14day ban happened. It was 3year+1 month ago and not 4 years but I said it was an estimate. It doesn't even make sense to lie about it, I'm pretty sure riot members would be able to see my honor level and that I don't lie about it.
zPOOPz (NA)
: > About 1, you got my point wrong. Yes personally when talking about my case it was about chat toxicity but it's highly more likely there will be toxicitiy in your game when you're on the losing side so since the system is automated a big lose streak may cause you a ban since you will receive more reports in general. Report =/= Punishment. Frequency of reports does not matter. There is a review process that the IFS performed before deciding whether or not to levy a penalty against your account. If you do not said anything toxic (or not type a single thing), you can be reported every single game you play for the next 500 games and I bet you my account you will never see a punishment. The system is automated in the sense that the machine learning system scan your chat and score your toxicity based on it's algorithm. It is NOT automated in the sense that 100 reports = auto punished. > I'm receiving a message every couple days when I login about how I receive x% more honors than your average player and get a hextech key every 3rd day cause of it so that has to mean something about frequency... I literally received that message today as well when I logged in and just 2hours or so later after my 2nd game I was banned. And yes I hold a single account (the one I'm posting from) since 2010, as I said in the end of the post got many legacy skins that were retired years ago and even some of the super rarest ones that only appeared in the beta of the game. Every couple days and key every 3rd day.... are we playing the same game? If you are perma banned, that means you previously received a 14-day ban putting your account at honor 0. Hextech key every 3rd day when your account is on the brink of a ban..... are we playing the same game??? > The bans if I remember correctly are 1st)3-days, 2nd)2weeks, 3rd)permanent. Also you kinda get to my point about how lose streaks matter as they will obviously increase the frequency you get reports since people report more when you lose and like you said frequency matters. The punishment tiers are: 10 chat restrictions 25 chat restrictions 14-day ban permanent ban Again, I will stress that if you said nothing toxic or not say anything all, REPORTS DO NOT MATTER. If the IFS sees nothing wrong with your log, it will get thrown out. You can be reported every single game and it would not matter. Losing streak has nothing to do with it unless you are saying you tend to be more toxic when you are on a losing streak, which will then makes it your fault, not the people who reported you. > That's even worse if it's true. So technically by avoiding saying certain keywords you can escape the ban which makes the system even more flawed in my eyes and also even more likely to get things out of context. The certain keywords is ONLY for Zero Tolerance word, which will trigger the severity escalated punishment. The IFS is a machine learning system that's capable of interpret YOUR (no one else) **chat** intent and context. Outside of ZT phases, it is not a dumb system that goes "if "fuck" then punish();" > I may receive a report for other reasons and you can even see it happens a few times on my example of my report card that I said "fucking timing" when I happened to gank same time as enemy jungler or when I said "why the fuck was she afk at that bush' when an enemy caught me out of nowhere so those 2 "fuck" words increased the severity if a bot reviews it automatically. Also take a look at this image which is at the postgame of one of the games in my report card. Does the bot even realize what I said or does it only read the keywords (cancer to everyone in family, everything to die) and punish me for it because the person who actually said those to me reported me for it? You have the option to submit a support ticket, request a human review, and plead your case.
>Every couple days and key every 3rd day.... are we playing the same game? If you are perma banned, that means you previously received a 14-day ban putting your account at honor 0. Hextech key every 3rd day when your account is on the brink of a ban..... are we playing the same game??? Yes I received a 14-day ban but as I said that was like 4 years ago... Right now I was on honor rank 2 midway to lvl 3 and it's not a joke at all that I received a message about my honors+key just 2 games before the permaban.
: After three punishments, which you had, Riot tells you that anymore problems from you will result in a permaban. And then you proceed to call people bitches, announce that you'll report people, tell people to fuck off, harass someone about how they'll be banned, call people "toxic," "mad," and "noob," announce reports again, tell people to shut up, and shout in caps. And now, therefore, you are banned.
It's 2 punishments in 9 years... (3rd is the permaban). And I understand what you say and totally accept that it's Riot's rules so no matter how wrong/unfair I find them it doesn't matter but still I'm not talking about if by the rules I'm on the right. I already admitted a few times that by the rules which are pretty clear I'm not but I'm arguing how the rules are wrong and don't make sense. You're telling me that the rules say I can't be toxic and no matter what telling someone to shut up is toxic. Meanwhile what I'm saying is that if the following conversation happens Rangom Guy: Nergal you suck d..k Rangom Guy: you're so bad dude go install minecraft instead fu...ing re...rd Rangom Guy: all: report this re..rd Nergal for intentional feeding Nergal: Omg shut up already then yes by the rules I'm not excused but at the same time it's not like my behavior is so out of line. While I'm not doing it even if I told someone to shut up in every single game (which is unrealistic and I wouldn't last 9 years if I did it obviously) a permanent ban would still be uncalled for in my opinion, a permanent ban should all be about severity.
zPOOPz (NA)
: > 1st reason why I think the current ban system is flawled/wrong. I've been banned 3 times, I don't even remember when the past 2 were (something like 2014 and 2015) but what I do remember is that all 3 times my match history looked like this and these are the only 3 times I managed to have such a huge losing spree. Which means you are more likely to get banned for having some bad matches since everyone tends to report their team when they lose. (Because 99% of the people don't understand the meaning of the word INTENTIONAL feeding) Were the other 2 bans for chat offense or gameplay offense? From within the context of this entire thread, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the other 2 bans were chat-base toxicity, which mean whether you had a 50 game losing streak or not does not really matter. If you did nothing wrong or say nothing toxic, it does not matter if you are reported every single game. report =/= punish. report = valid review = punish. If I am wrong in my guess, then correct me and tell me it's gameplay offenses (you were shown a match history instead of a chat log). Someone claiming you are intentionally feeding is irrelevant to chat offense review. Your gameplay and kda and such are not taken into account. > 2nd reason. In short you have 2 bans and then 3rd is permaban. Someone who started in 2019 has 2 chances. I who started in 2010 also have 2 chances, there's never a reset counter. It would make sense that every 2 years or so you get back to step 1 or 1 step back or that at most you get a 3-6 month ban instead of a permanent one because honestly even if you flame 3 times and deserve any kind of penalty but that's in a 9 years timeframe then getting a permaban is stupid imo. Think about it, flaming 3 times in 100 games gives you the same penalty as flaming 3 times in 40000 games which like I said is stupid. It is widely known that you can de-escalate your punishment tier by playing positively or at worst neutrally for many games over 5-6 months (the proposed average time frame assuming you play average amount of games per day). It is not based on elapsed time, but on the amount of games played without toxicity. Punishment is based on severity * frequency. If you flame with the same amount of severity, flaming 3 times in 100 games DO NOT gives you the same penalty as flaming 3 times in 40000 games. That's just patently false because you would not trigger the frequency punishment assuming your flames are not severe. (Just a side note, if you were banned 3 times, you didn't really hold any singular accounts for 9 years timeframe yes?) > 3rd reason. I was under the impression this is not true but apparently the system is automated. Client says "a player triggered a review" but on the chat logs of the 3 games that apparently someone "reviewed" was the last match I had, the match that ended 5seconds before I got the permaban which obviously means that it's what triggered it and obviously nobody reviewed at all, so combining that with reason #1 if you're unlucky and have a bad lose streak you may automatically get banned. Chat base offense is reviewed by an automated machine learning system called the Instant Feedback System (commonly referred as the IFS or "the bots"). This system has been in place for many years (can't remember but i'm going to guess in the 2014-2015-ish timeframe). It is false that nobody reviewed your chatlogs. No human probably reviewed it, but your chat logs were reviewed by the IFS. Again, report =/= punish no matter how many reported you rack up. It's not "automatic ban". If your chat logs have no toxicity in it, there is no punishment. > 4th reason. Ok this is the only controversial one, people say that what others tell you doesn't mean you have the right to flame and I disagree. Sure if somebody says "omg noob, why you bought the xxxx item?" and you reply "fuck off" it's pretty toxic. But if somebody says "dude you're such a noob, I hope your house burns down and your whole family dies" and then you also reply "fuck off" then it's more justified, but thing is when people review your chat they review ONLY YOUR chat, they have no idea what you reply to, they simply see you saying "fuck off" and determine you're the toxic one. (And yes btw somebody did tell me the line about wishing my family to die in one of the games on my report card). Also even if you disagree with this there's still a very valid point on why the whole chat should be available and that's because you can easily get stuff out of context. There is no justification. If you spew toxicity regardless of reasons, you did spewed toxcity. Why would the whole chat matters? There's no "who's more toxic". There's no justification. There's no self-defense. It's not a mutually exclusive punishment (meaning if the other guy is deemed more toxic, he should be punished and not you). You BOTH should be punished if you both engaged in toxicity regardless of who is more severe than who. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and disagreement with it, but those are Rito rules and they will not be changing it anytime soon. Just like in real life when you go to work for a company or go to a public venue such as a restaurant or movie theater or a park, there are rules in place. You have the right to disagree with it, but you must follow it or GTFO. > Imagine an aram match and somebody says to go feed a specific poro to make it bigger, then you're in base and you reply "I'm coming to feed", this is the only thing the reviewers see and I'm pretty sure they'll immediately assume that you said that in allchat to the enemy team. There is a flaw in this logic/example. As noted above, chat toxicity is handled by the IFS. The IFS is only triggered by report. The IFS is not an automate system that auto scan your chat in every game looking for things to punish you with. No report = no review = no IFS = no problem. If someone told you to feed a poro and you said "I'm coming to feed", who the hell is going to report you for that? If no one report you, your chat will not be review. You will not be punished. You also forget that there is an additional safeguard for such low chance of a false positive happened. It's called a support ticket. While the IFS does not look at any other chat but your own, the support agent CAN look at the whole chat log and if you explained the situation that someone told you to go feed a poro and you responded with "I'm coming to feed", it is not hard at all for the support agent to see that and remove your penalty. And yes, the support agent CAN see if the text is made in /allchat or not. It will literally said (All Chat) in your log so don't need to worry about that. On the same rein as this example and with your point (4), while the IFS will not look at any chat log but your own. The option to submit a support ticket and request a human to review your punishment is always available to you. The support agent will always be able to see the whole chat log. You always have the option to plead your case with context and ask the support agent to read the entire game log. This makes your point (4) irrelevant.
About 1, you got my point wrong. Yes personally when talking about my case it was about chat toxicity but it's highly more likely there will be toxicitiy in your game when you're on the losing side so since the system is automated a big lose streak may cause you a ban since you will receive more reports in general. > It is widely known that you can de-escalate your punishment tier by playing positively or at worst neutrally for many games over 5-6 months (the proposed average time frame assuming you play average amount of games per day). It is not based on elapsed time, but on the amount of games played without toxicity. > > Punishment is based on severity * frequency. If you flame with the same amount of severity, flaming 3 times in 100 games DO NOT gives you the same penalty as flaming 3 times in 40000 games. That's just patently false because you would not trigger the frequency punishment assuming your flames are not severe. (Just a side note, if you were banned 3 times, you didn't really hold any singular accounts for 9 years timeframe yes?) I'm receiving a message every couple days when I login about how I receive x% more honors than your average player and get a hextech key every 3rd day cause of it so that has to mean something about frequency... I literally received that message today as well when I logged in and just 2hours or so later after my 2nd game I was banned. And yes I hold a single account (the one I'm posting from) since 2010, as I said in the end of the post got many legacy skins that were retired years ago and even some of the super rarest ones that only appeared in the beta of the game. The bans if I remember correctly are 1st)3-days, 2nd)2weeks, 3rd)permanent. Also you kinda get to my point about how lose streaks matter as they will obviously increase the frequency you get reports since people report more when you lose and like you said frequency matters. > Chat base offense is reviewed by an automated machine learning system called the Instant Feedback System (commonly referred as the IFS or "the bots"). This system has been in place for many years (can't remember but i'm going to guess in the 2014-2015-ish timeframe). It is false that nobody reviewed your chatlogs. No human probably reviewed it, but your chat logs were reviewed by the IFS. Again, report =/= punish no matter how many reported you rack up. It's not "automatic ban". If your chat logs have no toxicity in it, there is no punishment. That's even worse if it's true. So technically by avoiding saying certain keywords you can escape the ban which makes the system even more flawed in my eyes and also even more likely to get things out of context. >There is a flaw in this logic/example. As noted above, chat toxicity is handled by the IFS. The IFS is only triggered by report. The IFS is not an automate system that auto scan your chat in every game looking for things to punish you with. No report = no review = no IFS = no problem. If someone told you to feed a poro and you said "I'm coming to feed", who the hell is going to report you for that? I may receive a report for other reasons and you can even see it happens a few times on my example of my report card that I said "fucking timing" when I happened to gank same time as enemy jungler or when I said "why the fuck was she afk at that bush' when an enemy caught me out of nowhere so those 2 "fuck" words increased the severity if a bot reviews it automatically. Also take a look at [this image](https://i.imgur.com/YkD1ewS.jpg) which is at the postgame of one of the games in my report card. Does the bot even realize what I said or does it only read the keywords (cancer to everyone in family, everything to die) and punish me for it because the person who actually said those to me reported me for it?
Rioter Comments

Nergál

Level 95 (EUNE)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion