GTHeavy (EUNE)
: Shaco invisibility power problem
> at the very least, add a visual/sound notice when Shaco uses blink/invisibility nearby, similar to Pyke. It can remain an invisibility, but this amount of sneak power is unjustified. He has something like that already. You are just blind.
Zardo (NA)
: Riot has said that u.gg has data closest to their own.
Also according to u.gg Shaco in grandmaster and challenger has a really bad winrate in jungle. If that site is correct then doesn't that mean that the only reason why Shaco is good are bad enemies? If he is doing that broken clear why doesn't bot lane just play safe? Its like with Twitch. You know that he will gank mid after red and you still die to it, coz you suck. For now people suck and they don't play safe on bot lane, since the strat is to get lvl 3 and gank bot. Even if that strat gives him an early gank, why is it even nerfed, when all the enemy has to do is PLAYING SAFE for like 1 minute or even less. Is it that hard? Like, Shaco doesn't do insane amounts of damage like Kha Zix or Evelynn. His damage is pretty meh. Just people are stupid and give him free kills for no reason. Do you know how much i cringe when I play this game and people stay in lane with less than 100 hp? Its plat elo for fucks sake. Are they all insane?
Zardo (NA)
: Erm... shaco's jg winrate is still 53 and sup is still 55 https://u.gg/lol/champions/shaco/build
u.gg is trash, riven had 37% winrate on this site for several days.
Eedat (NA)
: Shaco is 53% WR with 10% pickrate. That is not a "onetrick champion". His winrate spiked at the same time that his playrate tripled. In definite need of nerfs not buffs lol
And after a nerf for his clear it will fall to the ground since that is all that he has atm.
Rioter Comments
QancerClown (EUNE)
: Shaco rework.
Actually if it falls that far he would need a buff because usually only mains play this champ so his winrate shouldn't fall below 51%.
: I get the feeling this is a sarcastic reply, but just to clarify riot has confirmed a shaco nerf, all I am saying is that red side does need to be fixed regardless
Now that i read my post one again it kinda does give the feeling of a sarcastic reply xd It wasn't xd I wanted to agree that it needs to be nerfed xd
: > [{quoted}](name=SweedishGunner,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AtEET3AT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-12T14:29:44.338+0000) > > Yeah no. He's getting nerfed next patch, Scruffy confirmed it on his Twitter account. the nerf *is* his starting jungle clear.
Which is good. That is what we need. Now he will be balanced.
Rioter Comments
: it's only broken until they fix the jg, because red side giving lvl 3 is kinda unbalanced as is
Wow. You are so right about that. Lvl 3 gank on bot lane is just broken. It elevates his winrate, because of how unfair it is. Its basically a free double kill in every single match. First bood as well. It might even give him +4% winrate or more. That is something that, yes, they need to nerf. Or fix jungle, coz jng is a mess.
: Passive: NEW **BASIC ATTACK DAMAGE** Basic attacking an enemy now deals an additional 10-25 (levels 1-18) (+0.15 bonus attack damage) damage from behind **(this damage can critically strike)** That's additional base damage that can crit that was added onto his already existing utility. On an AD build, this scales up to 130 more damage. Also Q is now GUARANTEED to Crit. ------------ Passive now scales with AP and AD. W now scales with AP and does AOE damage. E scales with AP/AD R scales with AP, and the PET scales with 100% of Shaco's AD (You're just thinking about the explosion, and forgetting that it's an auto attacking Pet first) He is far more hybrid now than he ever was. Only W is Pure AP, and Only Q is pure AD. ----------------- Yeah because it's not like it's at late game where Shaco 1 shots everyone anyways. I can have a 300 Armor Morgana and get 1 shot by a Shaco before her ult is over. That's how he scales. He's actually safer to fight EARLY game. And yeah. I read ALL the patch notes and did the math. The only area where there's contention on whether he was buffed or nerfed is his E, which now has an averaged base scaling, and 0 - 50% Missing HP damage increase, versus a 30% Threshold HP Execute 50% Increase (which is like a mini Evelynn Ult)
Before the rework his passive had a crit as well. It was stronger too. Now you can proc it more often but its weaker. Q - true. However It does it anyways with passive, so it just fixes the problem with *sometimes weird* backstab. It not always procs. You are right with everything now. But R was already doing that, so that is not because of the rework. Yes, he is far more hybrid, which is fine, he should be. At least he is the first champion to do that right, without being a stat checker. I think he is better early tho. In my opinion he is kinda balanced, but Riot did an upsi and gave him lvl 3 in 2 min, which is ... yeah, ok, its broken. That early clear must be nerfed. He can literally gank lvl 1 bot lane while being lvl 3. > And yeah. I read ALL the patch notes and did the math. The only area where there's contention on whether he was buffed or nerfed is his E, which now has an averaged base scaling, and 0 - 50% Missing HP damage increase, versus a 30% Threshold HP Execute 50% Increase (which is like a mini Evelynn Ult) Also, you must understand. What you wrote earlier sounded as if you didn't reed patch notes. I know that you did. I didn't dislike your comment because of that. Other people did. You need to be straightforward on the boards because people are asses. Me too. When you write something that sounds wrong and you don't explain it right away they will downvote. Also that E is like a mini Eve R. You are right on this too. Its not broken tho. That clear is. It makes the champion's winrate at least 4% more than it should be, coz its THAT BROKEN. This is the only change I would do for now, because his overall strenght isn't overpowered, his early clear is. I am literally doing red while my raptors are doing themselves. Then I do krugs and gank bot lvl 3, while they are lvl 1. Its a free double kill every match. I might be even underestimating that and it might be more than 4% of winrate. It doesn't seem fair at all.
: I think he is ok now, is not overpower ( I main sup), he is kind of fun. I think his E should change (does not really make sense on the kit) but the rest it is fun. I will go main jungle next season so looks fun.
Yeah. Me too. If you main jungle, then he is a fine champion to play. I also enjoy Twitch and Evelynn. Eve is kinda busted tho so I don't play her that much.
: > [{quoted}](name=QancerClown,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wvln5QLO,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-10-11T11:57:44.778+0000) > > Isn't broken and winrate will probably show that as well > You should still permaban ekko or pantheon. http://prntscr.com/phx4ie
What is that site? Can you tell me please? Also if he is too strong i am ok with nerfs. We, Shaco players, were ready for nerfs before it was realeased. I just think that people are scared of Shaco for no reason. Changes on PBE were too strong. What was realeased isn't as strong but if its still too strong then w/e. They can nerf him. I am just glad that he isn't that plain and late game focused, because he was really too weak in early and too strong in late game, which made him easy to play.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=QancerClown,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wvln5QLO,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-10-11T11:59:38.436+0000) > > Probably won't be nerfed. Maybe his early clear should but his power isn't that high so yeah. They are right. He is close to balanced. Even very close. He is getting nerfed, slightly.
I don't see why but ok. If he needs to be. At least raptors aren't gangbanging me so I am fine with nerfing him now xd
: My Toughts on the shaco rework (as a shaco OTP)
I know that Shaco is different and maybe even a little bit weak now but I think we must learn how to play it now. I enjoy the rework. For me he seems balanced. Not too strong, not too weak. Sometimes kinda useless and sometimes strong. Depending on enemies. I feel like I can get better with it. Late game Shaco was just too easy to play. There wasn't anything to master anymore. It was plain. Now I think I will need some time to get used to it. Scaling is bad now, but base damage is ok so I think bruser Shaco shouldn't be that bad. Ad is also ok, there are actually many builds that may work depending on situation. Ap Shaco isn't as broken as people say (they watched Pink Ward on PBE, but Shaco on PBE was more buffed that the released version), Hybrid is ... well, its strong. I think its really strong.
KazKaz (OCE)
: I mean I'm actually glad that Shaco players had their champ fixed. For almost 3 years he had a kit that was dysfunctional and anti-fun for the Shaco player. That said, this AOE box change is uhhh....kinda broken, not gonna lie.
His early clear is too good, not gonna lie. But its still not as broken as you think, since his early game damage isn't really that huge. His E is fixed, so it makes more damage to targets below 30% hp, which means that he has a real execute ability now. Aoe only helps with clear. In fighting its not that useful since the damage from w isn't high. He can hit lvl 3 in 2 min, which allows him for early ganks but it still doesn't mean that he can always do that.
Ahri Baka (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Master2139,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wvln5QLO,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-11T04:57:56.879+0000) > > almost every shaco main said he need his numbers turned down when they saw this lol I actually saw a lot of Shaco mains calling them Nerfs
They are not nerfs and not buffes but shifts. They shifed it to early game which is fine.
: What a troll post. The changes did nothing of the sort: What the changes DID do: -Enabled MORE crit damage -Gave Hybrid scaling to every ability # - Reduced Deceive's cooldown down to Jax level status, so that he can now be Vanished for 2/3 of the game once on 40% CDR (each use is a little shorter, but 2/3 of the game means very little to no counterplay once skilled, more Duskblade procs. - Took away the ability to ever get away from his ult clone bomb (Shorter duration fear, but higher damage scaling and aoe) Almost NONE of his damage was actually nerfed, 3 parts were buffed, and he was given MUCH lower cooldowns. You HAVE to be joking.
Bullshit. He doesn't have more crit damage, but less. Its just more often proced because you don't have a cd on passive anymore. He doesn't have hybrid scaling on every ability. His w scales ONLY with ap. His q scales ONLY with ad. His r scales ONLY with ap. Reduced Deceive cd is fine, since in late game he is now rather bad. His early game is fun tho. Still, in early game almost everything can 1v1 him. But he is more cheesy now than before, so expect him in your jungle, killing you on your buff. Also you shouldn't try to kill the clone, kill the real shaco xd YOU have to be joking, wtf, his early game was buffed, his late game was nerfed. The damage wasn't really buffed. It was shifted to early game. Did you even read the patch notes? Did you play him? It really feels like you didn't because almost everything you wrote is incorrect.
Ahri Baka (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hi im 12,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wvln5QLO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-11T01:27:48.267+0000) > > you mean shaco is busted as fuck now? He has to be busted to Shaco mains think he is balanced , if he isn't Busted then he is weak.
He isn't busted but for us Shaco mains playing him before rework was pure suffering. Now he is less frustrating to play. Fear works as intented, instead of ... being weird. Now things run from those boxes properly. Also with aoe on W he is no longer gangbanged by raptors, which is also great. His early game is decent, his late game is lacking, but that is how it should be. He shouldn't be a late game oneshotter.
: They reworked Shaco? Again? Like a full-on rework? I need to do some research.
Yeah. Its comfortable to play now. Less stressful and less frustrating.
: I actually wanted to make post about how no one has said good or bad about it yet. At least a post that has gotten traction. Which in a weird way means that it is better balanced than most things rolled out. Either people spamming about a champ they think is busted or a champ they think sucks (this is rare mostly busted posts). Haven’t played his rework yet but seen a lot of gameplay and a lot of pinkward as well. Looks very very very forward thinking for a balanced but fun champ. Congrats riot
Yeah. I mean, it really feels balanced and at the same time comfortable for Shaco players. For me the biggest thing is that raptors don't gangbang me anymore, so I am happy about W changes. Also I prefer to play for skill in early game, than wait for my insane late game, like it was before.
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: you mean shaco is busted as fuck now?
Isn't as strong as people see it. Its just more confortable to play. For example raptors don't gangbang me anymore, which is fun.
Antenora (EUW)
: > "As the data rolls in... Shaco changes seem to have **landed a bit more power-up than intended**, but not hotfix-worthy. He's close to balanced! Pretty good considering the number of moving parts. Thanks to everyone for the feedback along the way." Shaco is going to get nerfed but it's not immediate hotfix worthy. So expect a slight nerf in 9.21 https://twitter.com/RiotAzuBK/status/1182428286736928768
Probably won't be nerfed. Maybe his early clear should but his power isn't that high so yeah. They are right. He is close to balanced. Even very close.
: in other words " shaco is broken it feels good! " i am permabanning him :)
Isn't broken and winrate will probably show that as well. He should be tier 3 or something right now. Maybe tier 2. He just feels a lot more interactive now. Raptors aren't gangbanging me anymore so i am happy. Fear works how it was suppoused to. Q is a little longer but still balanced. E does more damage and this is big, but the damage isn't even op and can be easily resisted with mr, but at least you can feel it now on early levels. It just feels overall more comfortable. You should still permaban ekko or pantheon.
Rioter Comments
: nah its actually static shiv, with infinity edge and stormrazor ----- just make sure to NOT hit the back of the target boy does that suck nerfing your crit damage because of your passive.
Who goes into Static Shiv, Infinity and Stormrazor. I tried that once and its shit. Stormrazor with Static Shiv doesn't even come close to damage of Duskblade. Duskblade is just too good of an item and it fucks up the whole role of assassins.
Rioter Comments
: Shaco E
Shaco is fucked. I want to kill people but Duckblade is my best ability, it does the most dmg xd
: Yuumi is the cutest slap in the face I've ever gotten
Why is this downvoted? He is right. Yuumi is a champion that u can go afk on. Riot should never make champions like that. New champions should be hard to play. We have enough of easy to play champions. And on support it is too visible. There are literally 5 support champions that require skill. The rest is on Garen lvl. Yuumi will create unhealthy enviournemt in the game. She will make some characters broken. New funnel strategies will arise. Do you really want that?
Rioter Comments
: Playing immobile champs in this game feels like shiit.
Ture. I am not even picking orianna anymore. And I was good at her. Just because mobile champions are so much better and there is so many of them. If enemy team has 3 or 4 of those, you cannot even play ori or you die constantly or if u don;t die, u still are useless and with 0 impact over the game.
faure (NA)
: Vanye with one item is better than most champs with 2
aYo. TRUE. They should nerf her % dmg or her true dmg. She is an anti tank that can literally 3 shot everybody.
: funny thing is it isnt 50/50 matchmaking, its forced 50/50. thers a BIG difference. I had a 70% winrate on kha zix in over 60 games (no, im not boosted, nor a smurf) and then I just started losing, and losing, and losing. Now my WR on kha is what? 64 or 62 or something? If they see you have a decent winrate they put you with 30 - 40% winrate players (no higher then 40). They also actively try to fuck over your LP by doing: "oh hey this guy is silver 2 lets put him into this gold 3 80 LPs game!" or "hey this level 34 account with 29% winrate on trundle support is great for this plat level gold player!" and if you manage to carry that horrid mess, they fucking give you 15 LP. Yea. Ok. Thats fun. Im inspired to play ranked.
: If hes good he will climb even vs smurfs, next
: Everyone is clueless
"sonic should have a gun and shoot jellyfish aliens, and it should be slower and more adventure based" - that is what Riot does with the game tho xdxdxdd
Syrile (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=QancerClown,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G339FePO,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T19:23:46.953+0000) > > Well. Skill will definitelly return to League, but I wonder how much time will it get. For now it is all micro. I am all macro so I have a hard time. I will have to switch to micro management and play bullshit champs. Honestly, I am starting to doubt it. This playstyle suits China very well and Riot seems all about making China happy and not anyone else. Look at World's 2018 and the trend since.
We will see. If it doesn't return to macro management era then we will just have to leave this game. Or at least I will have to do so, because my micro management is garbage.
Syrile (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=QancerClown,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G339FePO,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-10T19:18:50.187+0000) > > And its Mobalytics, so what is there to argue with. Well, anyone can be wrong. But, simply using logic will tell you this video is spot-on. The very concept of the game is being destroyed.
Well. Skill will definitelly return to League, but I wonder how much time will it get. For now it is all micro. I am all macro so I have a hard time. I will have to switch to micro management and play bullshit champs.
usul1202 (NA)
: You probably got down voted because that video has been posted a few times recently, and it's been badly used for hashinshin-type arguments that no one wanted to deal with again. (https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/MoB4KfKc-bad-positioning-is-more-forgiving-for-melee-bruiser-that-is-the-problem-with-the-whole-class)
They shouldn't hate the video and its content, which is all facts, just because of something that was forcefully connected with the video. Mobalytics is almost always right. They only sometimes are wrong with meta predictions. But I didn't know that it is an old video or topic on boards.
Syrile (NA)
: This is exactly what I have been saying for months now. They are downvoting this because bad players hate the idea that skill might return to League. The meta right now promotes a game that requires almost no skill and is very punishing to players who understand the macro and how to play the game rather than how to play a champion that cannot be punished. This video is brilliant and is almost word for word what I have said for a long time now but is much more organized and with a video. :D
And its Mobalytics, so what is there to argue with.
QancerClown (EUNE)
: Explains everything
Why would anybody downvote this? LOL This is just explanation of what is happening in the game right now. And a good explanation. And not mine.
Rioter Comments
: the w is a skill shot the protobelt is a skillshot yes she missed 4 abilities but she applied her auto passive 8 times and w passive 2 times including the spells themselves yes that means that if she had hit her bubble and q she would have 1 shot syndra but it also means that if syndra was a bit better and autod she would have won that fight BECAUSE zoe missed her main spells
Watch it again. Syndra did aa multiple times. Her aa does a lot less tho, coz she doesn't have shin. The problem with Zoe is that she doesn't need to land anything to kill, but she still can do that. U can argue but that is just a fact. Also, no, w isn't a skillshot. Protobelt hit mostly minions and didn't do that much dmg. All that did dmg was Shin proc from aa. Syndra did aa but her aa couldn't match that. If I had Zoe I would start playing her, because I saw one other Zoe that I played against and she was strong, with a rune like Glacial Augument. This is the thing I didn't expect. I still won, but was unable to carry with my kata. Weird for me.
QancerClown (EUNE)
: Just saw Zoe miss every ability and still get a kill xd
Downvote the facts. Don't listen to them xdxdxdxd
: """"""""""""""""""Fixes"""""""""""""""""
QancerClown (EUNE)
: Just saw Zoe miss every ability and still get a kill xd
This outrage coulture is too much for me. People, stop arguing about trivial stuff. State the obvious instead.
Quáx (NA)
: Ok so....Zoe killed Syndra with no abilities being used...except she also used her W and ignite, along with the fact that the Syndra only landed a Q,E combo. Ok, I can see why you'd be mad or criticize that in your argument. But then you do a complete 180 and say how "vayne is op" So what are you trying to argue? Two things at once?
When I said that Vayne is op that was a statement of obvious. I didn't try to argue. I thought that this is obvious that she is broken. In every match that I played since the start of this season she was broken so I thought that people stopped arguing about that and took it as a fact. Because they should. There is nothing to argue about here. I am not on boards too often so I thought that everybody knows it by now. That this is common sense. Apparently not. You people still argue if nr 1 pick in adc position, which is the best role in the game now, is broken or not. Just stop for a second and state the obvious. The problem is that Syndra was ahead, she hit her Q and E. Zoe was behind and she didn't hit Q and E. Syndra could play that better and I never told that Zoe is op. She was on my team btw. I was only trying to share my experience of something that I saw, but apparently Gameplay section is only for arguing now. There is nothing beside that so I will never visit boards again.
: lp loss because of lol crash
People will still pretend like League client isn't trash xd Even the client knows that it is trash and fixes itself every now and then for no reason.
: no she didn't her auto attacks and the W blobs and the summoners she used if syndra was auto attacking she would have won the fight
Yes she did. She missed e. She missed Q. That are her skillshots. Syndra would win if she aa, but I wasn't even saying that Zoe is broken or needs a nerf. She is in good state. I was saying that I saw her doing this and that. It is literally that simple. Just u people made it into politics. You are too used to doing shit like arguing about nerfs and buffs. This post wasn't even about that. I saw something weird happen. I wanted to write about. It is that simple. You make politics out of every single thread on boards. Well, I think riot is to blame for this outrage.
: > [{quoted}](name=QancerClown,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YIGfiEil,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T15:20:46.430+0000) > > Are you some kind of dumb? > > Doesn't my thread say: "Just saw Zoe miss every ability and still get a kill"? Isn't that exactly what happened? No, it is not even remotely the same thing. Her W counts as an ability, unless you think every champion can just pick up small orbs containing items, summoner spells and a bonus on-hit component to her basic attacks everytime she picks one up.
It is not a skillshot so it cannot be missed. She missed everything she possibly could. Even most of protobelt went into minions. That ignite was late, it did only 2 tics.
: > [{quoted}](name=QancerClown,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YIGfiEil,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-04-10T14:38:42.872+0000) > > _**--Removed--**_ I’m sorry you feel that way.
So, now u gonna stay silent because you were wrong? Apologise. You took my post into your "nerf and buff politics" while I wanted it to just be there, as an experience to share with others. But you are all politologists here. One side defends Riot even tho, Riot fucks up. The other side rages about the game and they still play it. There is no place to share experiences because you people are so outraged.
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QancerClown

Level 58 (EUNE)
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