: THIS is what a team fight should look like....
Imagine if Riot actually listened as we have all been screaming for them to scale dmg down on everything a bit. All that skill you have, high reaction speed, precise aim and clicks, tons of game knowledge, imagine putting Faker to shame, and then get instantly killed before you could display anything.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Imagine if Riot for their 10 year anniversary actually made a whole new announcer pack for league that contained various famous quotes from streamers/casters. "LOOK AT THE CLEANSE LOOK AT THE MOVES". Dyrus could be the "OK" voice for rammus. Corporate mundo dying could be " IM SICK OF THIS FUCKING COMPANY" By T1
Are we all just gonna pretend we forgot about "QUUuuuaaAAADRAAA KILL"" from Phreak?
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NcyYFg5E,comment-id=00010002000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000007,timestamp=2019-09-16T15:56:02.410+0000) > > Love that you still don't UNDERSTAND CHAMPIONS DO DIFFERENT THINGS pyke can do stuff like walk up and almost die before his kit lets him and it's supposed to do that it's not supposed to be a weakness. I'm sorry you refuse to accept a simple fucking fact and your only argument to it is "NOPE HE SHOULD NOT DO THAT" like can you give actual argument and not someone a child would say? > > Like wtf is this bs > "Pyke being an assassin with a cleanup ult, has lots of presence, even if he just peels for the adc, so you clearly don't know what you are talking about, killing a support is groundbreaking, because it allows you to force things you otherwise wouldnu 't be able to force. Syndra made the right decision, you just can't grasp the usefulness of the situation." > > Umm you can't force anything. Like o boy the soraka is dead time for baron nope that is not a thing. Pyke kit is 100% based on his team meaning he doesn't do anything. Like I even went over this and you just chose to fucking ignore it. Like you get 0 map pressure from killing him. Like again it seems like your only argument is " nope your wrong" and nothing else. Like I give examples of what happens and you just ignored them. > > > Like you part about how he team fights just shows you are just talking out of your ass. > 1: You say said your post was about the situation above like wtf? Are you talking to two different people or something? If my point is that pyke should be able to do that, you then talking how pyke can survive makes no fucking sense we already know pyke can survive that. > 2: You respond is nothing but bs like you saying "when his teammates have gotten the focused player low, which is relatively fast," like what? When talking about champions you put them in a generalization but you make it sound like he is playing with nothing but assassins. Pyke's target would be the adc or any carry like champion meaning they will also have peel and also pyke doesn't and shouldn't go in only when someone is low since that is just playing a 4v5 like at most he can execute someone at 30% hp like wtf one his ult does like with a unrealistic build all lethality items and 3 IE does about 993 damage and cut that in half because of how it works that's about 500 damage not including armor as aoe damage and it will a most hit like one other champions that's is not a lot for late game and especially with a super unrealistic build. > > If actually think killing someone at 30% hp and doing less 500 damage around then makes up for pyke just afking until then then you clearly don't play league I'm pretty sure having a thresh just stop who ever was trying to dive the back line is doing way more for his team then pyke. > > Pyke's pull is not a kill for basically anyone in a team fight since it's so short. And he really can't peel well since everything he has is delayed. > > Also his e cooldown is longer then most team fights so what makes no sense why you think he can get it up twice. > > > This is just sad to read especially when you bring up ranked showing you can't argue. Says I don't write more than "nope, you are wrong" while I give details, explain his options, what those options lead to, how he affair in teamfights, and all you write is "nope, you are wrong" hypocrite. And your first lines clearly admits that you didn't read what I wrote at all. You are a stubborn hypocrite who absolutely refuses to have his mind changed, you came into a forum with that mindset, and you are beyond help. You mentioned that all I say is bs while you spout your silver logic of what a teamfight is, and say I clearly don't know how to play league, only insulting yourself considering you are below this player you claim don't know how to play league, and at last, you say I shouldn't bring rank up to win an argument, well, ranked was brought up as a fact that my perspective of the game is superior shown by the fact that I'm higher ranked, the reason you don't want me to use that card is because using that card invalidates any perspective of a dude who's arrogant and how many divisions below me? Drop the attitude mate, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Your depiction of what a teamfight is and how it turns out, honestly made me puke, I probably thought the same thing when I was your rank, but I never tried to force my logic upon a much higher ranked player. And this is when you will come up with some bs excuse to how I didn't try to argue back again because I gave up or something, or that I'm probably so pissed or something, or even better, you are gonna say something about how me being 3 divisions above you doesn't prove that my game knowledge is much higher. And for any other person who reads this shit-show of a childish post that I had to write, I already tried the logical way, I think the only thing that gets through this guy's head is things that hit him hard, hence why I had to stoop so low.
: Demotion Shield Expiring: Guess I'm Not Playing for 7 weeks?
Actually, that's a pretty darn good idea, make it highest rank based instead of current rank based. I support this idea wholeheartedly even if it doesn't affect me at all because I'm not gonna be high enough honor level to receive rewards, guess "hypocrite" and non-derogatory flaming is a ticket to easy chat-ban. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
bionic94 (NA)
: Getting LP for losing a game?
I think that would encourage players to play for K/D/A and not make the necessary sacrifices, or hardly try to play around losing once they think it's lost, I would propose the same but reduce the amount of LP a player loses instead of giving them LP.
: ***
I will break this down nice and simple for you, and if this doesn't get through to your brain, nothing ever will. > Again pyke shouldn't be punished there because of his kit DIFFERENT CHAMPIONS HAVE DIFFERENT WEAKNESSES AND STRENGTHS. Pyke should indeed have been punished, different kit or not, does not mean he should be able to get away with doing things that are outrageously dumb, otherwise the only time Pyke would ever get punished is when he uses W E without a purpose, which is nearly impossible for a Pyke to do Nobody should be an exception to punishments this badly, if you are gonna say "that's his kit, so it's not dumb", then it's dumb that he has that kit. > LIKE YOU MAKE NO SENSE. No one should focus the support at all syndra was dumb to do that even if she got the kill since that means pyke will be up for the next team fight and she will have things on cooldown meaning its a negative. You get nothing from it the gold is pretty pointless at that stage and he is a support meaning you get no map pressure from him being dead which is the main goal of getting a pick. Pyke being an assassin with a cleanup ult, has lots of presence, even if he just peels for the adc, so you clearly don't know what you are talking about, killing a support is groundbreaking, because it allows you to force things you otherwise wouldn't be able to force. Syndra made the right decision, you just can't grasp the usefulness of the situation. > You whole post is about pyke getting caught showing you don't understand his kit or league. Like you're supposed to kill in a team fight where he can't escape since everything will be down like pyke jumps into a fight then he can stun maybe two champions at most but unless his team follows up he is dead and even when his team follows up if he gets hit by one cc he is pretty much dead. My whole post being a response to the situation that happened above, Pyke not being punished for bad decisions that you are trying to justify, yeah, sorry for not sidetracking like you do. I'll try to explain Pyke in a teamfight as well as I can without writing an essay to hurt your brain or something. Pyke peels for his adc or waits for a good opportunity, let me explain how both scenarios go. Pyke goes in when his teammates have gotten the focused player low, which is relatively fast, then ults that target, dealing high plash damage to everybody around that target as well, and with everybody having already used their spells prior to him coming, there's no response left for them with the exception of brawlers, but your team can't be dependent on 1 brawler to turn a whole situation, and if Pyke decides not to flank but rather pull a player, that's also lethal. If Pyke decides to use his kit to peel for the adc, Pyke will never have to worry about dying, because he is not a priority, and if they swapped priority to him, as I have said a billion times, he has 1 tank item, enough for him to survive long enough to get his E ready again, and use E W and come back after barely any time because his healing is so quick and extreme. Also tenacity renders cc practically useless. > Your post is just about people playing bad vs him. Your post is just about Pykes playing bad vs people. Let me explain your logic in a way even you can understand, though this might feel like an insult, bear with it. This example is a bit extreme, but focus on the point of this example. I make a champion that instantly explodes himself, having the text (kills any champion non-invulnerable, global range), you can counter it with banshee, zhonyas and edge of night, your logic is "well, that's his kit, it's what he can do, you just don't learn the game and play around it", whereas our logic is that, "that may be his kit, but it's still not a justified kit". We shouldn't have to play around something that isn't justified, and no, there's not really any way to play around it in the first place. > You whole post is about pyke getting caught showing you don't understand his kit or league. 1 last thing, you really love telling people they don't know how to play the game and such, and I REALLY hate using this card but your arrogance is somewhat forcing me.... you are silver mate, while I'm diamond, I clearly know the game way more than you do.
: ***
It's not about learning the game, Pyke made a misplay that Syndra took full advantage of, but Pyke gets out of combat too easily and recover it all, Syndra is left with her ult and ignite on cooldown and Pyke was not punished for making a misplay, now Pyke is fully capable of forcing a teamfight as if nothing had happened with the exception that Syndra lacks cooldowns, and all that is made even more impossible to play around when Pyke builds 1 tanky item that allows him to survive any champion's kit no matter how little health he has left, and comes back with nearly full health. You see, the thing about this is how his survivability works. He gets caught > survives it > he uses a very long dash that follows up with an AOE stun, after his Q slow, it's nearly impossible to dodge as a melee and nearly impossible to walk around as a ranged and catch him again > then he presses W which instantly puts him out of combat, and speeds him up tremendously also letting him get boots of mobility active again, on top of this his vision circle is very small so he can easily work around you, and all this allows his healing to kick in which heals for a crazy amount, not even reduced by grievous wounds because the health bar has an objective, to get to the end of the grey bar no matter what, so even if ignite reduces healing, the grey bar will still sit there waiting for the health to catch up sooner or later > Pyke comes back and punishes you for trying to punish him for a misplay he made. And now you might think, well yeah, all options of offensive are eliminated, how about not going in on him at all and just save your spells for a teamfight or something? Well, that's where your one and only Pyke comes in, the dude has a pull, so you are punished for grasping at straws but also punished for playing it smart. And none of this has included the fact that for an assassin, he's really too good at multi-kills, and the dumbest of all is that not only does he have that edge over ("MOST" NOT ALL) other assassins, but he grants too much gold around his team, and they haven't even removed the infamous double gold on himself yet, have they? His kit is overloaded, there's nothing to play around, you lack the ability to visualize every possible outcome where Pyke survives your kit ( because he will, and if he don't, he will make sure to buy an item that will let him, and because of the situation written above, only he will benefit from that. )
: @Riot, can we maybe buy little legend eggs with orange essence?
Heck, at this point I could settle with at least being able to buy the little legend you actually want. It shouldn't matter much to them that some little legends will be way more likely to be bought, they earn the same amount of money anyhow, perhaps the time spent on making the other less interesting little legends, but I'm sure some will enjoy them. They probably think that it's gonna make us spend much less if we get what we want immediately, but the other side of the coin would be that we do not want to gamble at all and don't spend any RP.
8Belthazor8 (EUNE)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=8Belthazor8,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=FbKY00Gs,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-02T07:59:19.695+0000) > > She is far the best toplaner that is why she almost never played in pro play right? > > Now this is a perfect example for hate fueled by stupidity. > > Riven's win rates: > > bronze: 44.31% > silver: 45.93% > gold (your elo on this account): 47.3% > > Such high numbers, now wonder you have trouble to deal with this broken champion. > > So? She is fun to play. Also it is more challenging to master her than most of the champions. > > This type of comment usually comes from someone who starts insulting his enemy laner because his ass was kicked by him then comes to board and complains about how toxic that player was. Also if she is so easy than why don't you play her at all? Wait, let me guess. You are not in the mood. It is odd how those who say Riven is a no-skill champion never played her while they only play actually braindead point and click champions and lanebullies. What a coincidence. Whenever there's a Riven hate-post, just give up on logic, they disregard logic and are stuck to their opinions (which are based on their feelings and not actual facts). As long as they stretch the truth, you, me, the rest of the community and Riot Games, will never take them seriously.
: I think tenacity is something that belongs on a champions kit, rather than an item. That way champions that shouldn't have tenacity don't have access to it, as you point out with {{item:3053}}. But perhaps that would "overload" a champion's kit... we've come full circle :D Perhaps a champion could have an effect where tenacity scales with MR??? They're actually doing something like that with the Volibear rework, not sure if it scales with stats or level or ability rank, or anything...
If there was an ability with tenacity that scaled on MR, that champion would be too broken against teams with a bit too much AP. The thing is, I think every tank are entitled to have tenacity, which is why they should make a pure tank item that gives tenacity, champions that shouldn't buy it will not get much from buying it because 1 tank item does not make a player even near tanky, and in the current meta, unless the tank has a proper damage reduction spell or shield, they themselves aren't that tanky. I see tanks get melted down left and right unless they got something like Tahm's shield, Poppy's passive, Leona's W, Rammus W, Shen W and so on.
: Ah, I see. I'm not sure if tanks are weak, but they definitely are not as satisfying as other types of champions. I find it either hard or boring to carry a game as a tank. Its tougher to scale the power of utility effects with gold, where as its easier to scale damage with gold. Riot has a design choice to make CC and move speed effects constant, they're never scale them with anything. We do see some tanks scale their damage effects with Armor/Magic-Resit (think Galio). But like you said that just adds to the damage in the game. I'd love to see some data on how much a tanks WR improves when they have the highest income on the team vs other roles??? Do you have any ideas on how to make tanks scale better with gold?
I have an idea to how to make tanks more useful, they should add a proper magic resist health item that gives tenacity, we don't have enough tenacity, and the ones we have are {{item:3111}} which everybody could get away with buying, and {{item:3053}} which tanks don't buy, then there's the rune that lies under Precision of all things, and {{item:2138}} which is like the thing you get when you are at full build. As of income, there used to be that item that went into Randuin's Omen that gave gold per second, I always thought there was no good reason to remove that.
: The amount of effects in a champion kit doesn't really impact items, they're fairly independent systems. I've done a little bit of game development, typically game systems are designed so that effects are handled generically: You don't design a system to handle specific ability, you design it to handle a collection of effects, and it should know how to resolve 1 effect at a time or 20. Then, you represent an ability as a collection of effects: dash + damage + heal + shield etc. So as you add new abilities, or even add more effects to an ability, then you are reusing existing effects, so doesn't create any more work to manage them. The exception would be bugs (spaghetti code) or new effects such as Akali's obscure effect. I think the larger concern with overloaded kits is the burden of knowledge. It's already so hard for new players to the learn the game. Creating more complicated champions just makes it harder. But also more exciting. I've always like the fantasy of pantheon, but he was so boring to play. With the rework, I might actually play him. It's a tough balance to strike.
I never said effects impact items, I said that the items we have now makes it difficult to build tanky in some situations and as certain tank champions, and Riot giving champions bonus effects and abilities only adds to killing players quicker.
: go read what sona does.
There's a reason I didn't mention Sona and Qiyana, their whole kit was made around that, Pantheons abilities were not, they are like any other champ's abilities but with the same effects Sona get from her passive, whereas Sona's abilities are undertuned because of her passive.
: CertainlyT said a cool thing once that if two abilities are always cast together, then they should just be one ability. It makes for more exciting champions. > Is that you are gonna regret it once you have twice or perhaps thrice the amount of abilities, passives and effects to keep check of in the future. Perhaps. I'd argue that adding more to a champion's kit gives Riot more balance levels to tune each champion. I also don't think the balance team evaluates a single ability vs all other 500 abilities, I assume they evaluate a single champion at a time. So adding one effect to Ahri doesn't make it any more difficult to balance Caitlyn.
Fair points, but you have to remember that when you have a new champion, that champion has to be coded in a way where other champion's abilities interact properly with that champion, whenever a champion is released or reworked you are often gonna see them get tons of hot fixes, and the more they add to a champion, the more bugs are gonna appear, and to top it off, we are reaching a state where damage out-weights defense so much, magic resist items are too situational, making it hard to build tanky against ap as certain champions, some defense items are nearly too bad to buy, percentage damage is everywhere making health a bit too insignificant, and that was only supported further by the fact that Riot gave Poppy grounded which even counters Vi ult and let her get nuked afterwards, and Renekton + Blitzcrank having shield break which allows champions to die faster, we don't need all these effects that end up getting every champion killed too fast for anybody to counter-play skill or ability-wise. Leona always uses E Q together, that doesn't mean her E should stun after the root and then give her another Q or just let her keep her Q as an additional stun, nor should Lux or any other champion that always uses 2 spells together. You know how Cassiopeia's W barely deals any damage so you can just consider it grounded only? Well, now Poppy does that along with what her W already did, it's too much of an overload, there's nothing wrong with minor effects such as Kassadin who received something as tiny as "Extra stacks of Riftwalk add 0.1 ability power per stack", but Poppy, and many other champions get practically a whole new ability on top of 1 of their abilities.
: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-516-notes Read.
Already found it. After going through it, some of these I'm pretty sure happened in PBE, a lot are insignificant, and a few are compensation effects, then there's a few added effects that function as buffs. If you were trying to show me them getting buffed, let me just inform you this post was not about overstatted champions, it was about champions receiving effects and passives that functions like additional abilities or simply just received an extra ability, buffs are not passives, effects or abilities.
: > and they didn't overload already released champions all that much Because stuff like Juggernaut/Assassin/etc. Update never happend, right?
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: i don't think there is a single champion in the game with a kit that doesn't have at least something else in addition to the base ability you are throwing a tantrum while ignorant to reality please stop it
> [{quoted}](name=Pxerkza,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3GGHEbRl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-31T15:20:35.398+0000) > > i don't think there is a single champion in the game with a kit that doesn't have at least something else in addition to the base ability > > you are throwing a tantrum while ignorant to reality > please stop it Wow, it is incredible how you can say I'm throwing a tantrum and being ignorant, claiming I was unaware of every champion having a little extra, while completely ignoring everything I wrote, want me to quote myself? Here we go. "You feel like 4 spells and 1 passive is too tame and you are trying to give every champion a bit extra to liven things up, I get it" "a few bonus passives or additional abilities ( such as Nidalee's ), doesn't hurt" "but when you are trying to give everybody like 3 different effects and passives for each of their spells, it's just way too much." I separated them in hopes that you don't miss it for a second time, now let me quote you. > please stop it
: Champions were always overloaded. For example Lee was released 2011 and Yasuo 2013, this isn't a new Thing.
I already know about Lee Sin and Yasuo being overloaded, I have known since their releases, but back then they didn't do it to every champion, and they didn't overload already released champions all that much beside a few harmless changes, now everybody gets everything, I'm gonna compare it to what they did with skins, some champions got pool party, blood moon, project, dark star, arcade skins, some even got unique skins, now everybody gets every skin and you are just waiting for your champion to get it too, now think about that in terms of abilities, passives and effects.
Rioter Comments
: How can anyone complain about Tryn is beyond me lol He loses almost all matchups as long as you dont let him level 2 all in you. Like, what are you playing top that you are losing to tryn to?
Remember why players whined about demolish Sion? You beat him in lane, and despite being 0/8 he would just run it down top lane, destroy your turrets with demolish, and you couldn't stop him because the time between dying and his passive was enough for demolish to be ready, then he just triggers demolish with his passive (which is r%%%%%ed), and if you didn't kill him in time, then he would do the same thing and ult away. Tryndamere is basically that, nobody is scared of fighting him, we are all scared of his stupid way of being able to int and destroy turrets just like Sion.
: Dunno man none of them make me feel interest
That's alright man, that's why I gave you that special option called "they all suck".
TimeToTroll (EUNE)
: Vote Which Fiddlesticks Concept Art You like the Most
I didn't want to take the attention away from the poll above, so I wanted to write my opinion in form of a comment, on my own post, I know, ridiculous. Before I say anything else, I'd like to clarify I love all 4 concept arts and I respect everybody's opinions, as preference is subjective. The first art is very nice and doesn't stray too far away from what Fiddle already seemed like, just a cleaner and more updated version, but I feel like he lacks that unique form of grotesque. The second art I really like because of how morphed it looks, leaving no trace of being humanoid and I love the broken and bent wood and worn out cloth, and not straying too far from simplicity. The third is my second favorite not too far from my favorite, I like the eyes hidden in the worn out cloth and I absolutely love the lantern, the weapon is interesting and it looks a bit more like the physical structure fiddlesticks supposedly had. The fourth is very unique and interesting, the body being a crow cage, the face looking cleaved as if he was subjected to ( himself lol ), and his many *cough cough* tools, but I feel like he is too.... how do I say this... hardcore?
: they all have their appeals, but I love the grotesque 'wrong' feel of the fourth one
> [{quoted}](name=thefatlazycat,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EVfW6M3k,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-25T23:06:03.076+0000) > > they all have their appeals, but I love the grotesque 'wrong' feel of the fourth one Nice choice, but then again, they are all nice picks.
Rioter Comments
: I want to keep my level 200 border. Please let me.
Being able to choose between borders we unlocked in the past through leveling? Sure, I can get behind that.
: carousel items
IcyWard (NA)
: TFT's designers should disable item drops for themselves
: > [{quoted}](name=TimeToTroll,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MBvKucbl,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-07-22T10:37:52.264+0000) > > It's a free game that's thriving off of the community, so trying to mess with the community by balancing around cosmetics and ignore the competitive side of the game, is absolutely a no-go. Besides, criticism ain't no crime. > > > How would you feel if you spent tons of money and time on a game just for it to shut down the day after? I mean, it's their game and it's free so they can do whatever they want, right? That's your logic, right? And don't say shit like that never happens, I saw this first hand. they make so much money it won't ever shut down.
That wasn't the message I was trying to send. Also, ruining the game on purpose ain't much of a different result.
: It's a free to play game why are you complaining?Lmao
It's a free game that's thriving off of the community, so trying to mess with the community by balancing around cosmetics and ignore the competitive side of the game, is absolutely a no-go. Besides, criticism ain't no crime. How would you feel if you spent tons of money and time on a game just for it to shut down the day after? I mean, it's their game and it's free so they can do whatever they want, right? That's your logic, right? And don't say shit like that never happens, I saw this first hand.
: Not that I don't believe you, but where did they admit it for Lucian?
You know those QnA? That's where I read it.
: I mean he has bad scalings. AD on him is worth a lot less than on every other champ and it's not like you're building much other than assassin items.
That doesn't justify anything when his ult deals like 50% of your health with all that gold, and his basic attack as an assassin easily gets you down to 50% full build vs full build Pyke might not be that strong, but you have to consider that Pyke gets full build 15 minutes earlier than everybody else and his adc gets lots of gold too, which ends the game easily before you can even reach near full build. Another thing you have to remember is that when he gets a kill and earn twice as much gold, you also fall behind by dying. His snowballing puts Nunu to shame.
: Well, my King Crimson predicts Pyke getting nerfs in 2 patches later cuz they'll get too much sells in 1 month.
My King Crimson felt like telling you that they have most often done it a patch later.
Stratixx (NA)
: League of legends boards is useless if riot doesn’t listen.
If Riot wanted to make this game better for the community, they would be listening to the community, and they clearly aren't. Riot thinks that we are incapable of thought and can't provide any useful suggestions to improve the game, such as scaling the damage down because there's no time for mechanics or any sort of counter play when everybody 1 shots. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about balancing because we all know that it's not because they aren't listening, they clearly just balance the game around cosmetic, go ahead and ask Pyke, then go ahead and ask him again 1 patch after his legendary skin has been released.
: Ok, my STANDO King Crimson predict 1 month later ok ? and what it says is that they'll revert Pyke to what he was 2 patches ago when his E can hit enemies. But they'll get that R patch out. So they literally showed us that they nerfed him because he's OP. After that they buff him because he's too weak. And from the beginning it was just a plan for money. Pyke wasn't a huge problem in lane. Just people didn't get used to it. Now Riot just fucking him to make him useless like Blue Kayn. That's it
My King Crimson predicts we are gonna see him nerfed the patch after skin release.
: They nerfed lane pyke but it hurt support pyke too much so riot buffed that. This has nothing to do with skins stop lying to yourself.
Are you really trying to justify Pyke receiving about 600 gold per kill? They didn't nerf support Pyke, get that shitty lie out of here. Pyke not being able to deal AOE dmg only supported lane freezing, if anything, that was a justified nerf to lane Pyke and a buff to support Pyke.
Rioter Comments
: Last female tank we got was Leona and it's been so many years
> [{quoted}](name=Xalasmeni Banana,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kYV1fPsE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-20T19:45:24.474+0000) > > Last female tank we got was Leona and it's been so many years Sejuani? But sure, I can agree on getting more.
: U.gg, the one riot says we should use, puts riven at 52%. I'm not aggressive. I'm very chill. And you're still wrong. Lol. Objectively, based on her winrate and winrate per games played, and her having a high skill ceiling. She is over tuned. I understand that you don't want your main to be balanced. No point in trying to rationalize with someone as bias as you, but I do understand you defending your main.
You are clearly not gonna calm down enough to continue this discussion, and I'm not gonna bother reporting you a second time, have a good day.
: We've both peaked D2, but your a riven main so you're biased. Lol. I've no qualms with riven. I poop on her all day and night. Lol. That doesn't mean she's not overtuned, though She's currently an S+ tier top laner, with a winrate of over 51%. That winrate isn't out of line for braindead champions. But riven, supposedly, falls into the hard to play well champs (like Akali). ..Removed by Moderation..
First of all, I don't know what ticked you off and made you this aggressive, but calm down and take a breather. Secondly, i pulled that winrate from op.gg, and its 48% in leagueofgraphs.com You see, I have only been speaking through statistics, but even if I were to talk about experience and without bias, she's not overtuned and you came into this discussion without the mindset to have your opinion changed, you keep looking at this from a subjective point while I'm spitting out objective facts. And now you resort to insulting me instead of discussing this like mature people.
: That's the thing. Her winrate being solid for people that barely play her, if she is one of the hardest champions to play, is very indicative that she's currently to strong. Compare her to Akali, who is an absolute menace when played well. Akali is another incredibly strong champion that isn't easy played at a "high level". Or Yuumi. Their winrates are more in line with where Riven's, supposedly, should be. "Difficult but strong champions" _should_ have a low winrate in general, while players who "really play" these champions should maintain solid winrates. Riven is an exception here. Why? She wasn't always. She's currently overtuned.
If she was overtuned nerfing her wouldn't render her useless, but it most definitely will, that's an indication that she's not overtuned, take it from a 2m Riven main in D2 peak, that she's far from too strong, Riven mains are already looking for an alternative because not too long ago, Riven was in fact rendered useless and nobody could win with her. She is the 86th highest winrate champion with 49.78% which isn't solid at all then, nothing says 25% of all losses aren't from first time Riven players anyway, what you are doing is talking from experience and not statistics, that simply won't do. It also have something to do with ELO, if you are in a low ELO chances are that your enemies will play their champions as if it was their first time even after 30 times, which means being a first time Riven shouldn't be too hard to beat them as, but I have never seen a first time Riven do well in my ELO against others with more experience with their champions. Mate, I will be completely honest with you and you won't like this.... you aren't talking about what needs to be done to Riven, you are talking about what YOU want to be done with Riven. Riven doesn't need any stat changes, there will always be a flaw in a champion, with Riven's current spells, she's easy for new players and that's just what has to be sacrificed for the sake of maintaining something else, her actually being a viable pick.
: Are you not paying attention to the thread? Jinx, Ashe, and Nami (along with most of the roster) are incredibly simple and straight forward champions that are easy to play. You could argue it's subjective, but the general consensus is that Riven is one of the hardest champions to play well. Champions that are easy to master are "allowed" to have high winrates after a couple of games played. It makes sense. If a champion is mechanically simple and his a straight forward kit, it shouldn't take a player loads of games in order to perform well. Riven, on the other hand, (again, this could be argued as subjective) is a mechanically intense champion. She also has certain nuances to her kit that cannot be found in any skill descriptions. "Hard to play" champions should have a lower winrate when they're being played by players that don't play said champion. Like OP states, Lee Sin is great but has a shit winrate. Same with Yuumi and Akali. These champions, when played well, are strong, but they're winrate is low because of the "difficulty" of the champions. Riven is often regarded as the hardest champion to master, but her winrate among people that don't play her is still solid. That's the issue. If you still don't get it I'm sorry, but I don't know how else to explain it.
You guys are misunderstanding one another, you basically agree down to every point except, "riven's winrate shouldn't be this solid for players who doesn't main her". I just feel that those words are somewhat contradicting. Subjectively speaking we believe Riven to be one of the most mechanically intense champions, we can agree on that, you also repeatedly stated that Riven is very hard to play well and possibly the hardest to master, which contradicts what you said about her winrate for non-riven mains being too solid. Don't get me wrong, I believe Riven is a massively hard champion and that the thing you said about winrate for non-Riven mains being solid can't be true, but what you said about non-Riven mains having a solid winrate suggests she's an easy champion, for short, a contradiction. Also, it's just not possible to change her difficulty for non-Riven mains without changing her difficulty overall, and the only way that could happen would be either through nerf ( which would render her useless at this point ), or to change how her abilities function or just straight up change her abilities, ( which would discourage players from mastering her because she simply would be too difficult at that point ).
TimeToTroll (EUNE)
: I had a bit difficulty understanding your points, because it seemed as if you contradicted your own opinion several times, Jamaree seems to feel that too. This probably doesn't sound genuine coming from a Riven main, but I just thought I would allow a Riven main's opinion to be explored as well. My peak rank was diamond 2, so you don't have to worry about, (can we trust that he can speak op for riven mains?) In my experience, when I attempt to trade with somebody level 1, I'm likely to take slightly less if not equal damage to them, so trading isn't as unfair as you make it sound, she will deal just about 50% of your health and be close if not 50% from the same trade. Tell you what mate, if Riven was at 100 on a scale and some other champion was 99 then 98 and so on, take 50 away from riven and whoever was 99 will be at the top of the scale now, there will always be THE strongest trading champion, and I would argue that isn't Riven right now. You mentioned being tower dived at level 4, a Riven won't be able to take more than 4 shots from turret in maximum, getting away with tower diving level 4 requires not only for the dived one to not do anything, but also have severely low health, and in those circumstances any champion can be tower dived. 1 of your problems was that Riven zoned you early, what's wrong with that? When I play Riven I have to endure the same with Jayce, Vlad, Kennen, Gnar and some melee level 1, you do know Darius is stronger level 1, right? Camille too. I sacrifice a bit of my health to get the 3 melee minions and then I don't receive any gold until the third wave is down. There was 1 thing you said that bothered me though, and that's level advantage, nobody can zone you so hard you aren't in minion range, otherwise just fight them, a situation described as such will mean that that person will be taking tremendous minion damage and you won't. Riven already received a huge nerf on her E by 4 seconds, more nerfs and I'll be forced to switch main. I get what you are saying, and if there is a justified way to nerf Riven, so be it, but I just can't sympathize with your arguments, they sound more like a personal grudge and highly stretched from the truth.
> How do I do that all the time then? > > Oh right, by playing {{champion:54}} support haha > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} **Cough cough** Leona is scarier** cough**.
TimeToTroll (EUNE)
: I had a bit difficulty understanding your points, because it seemed as if you contradicted your own opinion several times, Jamaree seems to feel that too. This probably doesn't sound genuine coming from a Riven main, but I just thought I would allow a Riven main's opinion to be explored as well. My peak rank was diamond 2, so you don't have to worry about, (can we trust that he can speak op for riven mains?) In my experience, when I attempt to trade with somebody level 1, I'm likely to take slightly less if not equal damage to them, so trading isn't as unfair as you make it sound, she will deal just about 50% of your health and be close if not 50% from the same trade. Tell you what mate, if Riven was at 100 on a scale and some other champion was 99 then 98 and so on, take 50 away from riven and whoever was 99 will be at the top of the scale now, there will always be THE strongest trading champion, and I would argue that isn't Riven right now. You mentioned being tower dived at level 4, a Riven won't be able to take more than 4 shots from turret in maximum, getting away with tower diving level 4 requires not only for the dived one to not do anything, but also have severely low health, and in those circumstances any champion can be tower dived. 1 of your problems was that Riven zoned you early, what's wrong with that? When I play Riven I have to endure the same with Jayce, Vlad, Kennen, Gnar and some melee level 1, you do know Darius is stronger level 1, right? Camille too. I sacrifice a bit of my health to get the 3 melee minions and then I don't receive any gold until the third wave is down. There was 1 thing you said that bothered me though, and that's level advantage, nobody can zone you so hard you aren't in minion range, otherwise just fight them, a situation described as such will mean that that person will be taking tremendous minion damage and you won't. Riven already received a huge nerf on her E by 4 seconds, more nerfs and I'll be forced to switch main. I get what you are saying, and if there is a justified way to nerf Riven, so be it, but I just can't sympathize with your arguments, they sound more like a personal grudge and highly stretched from the truth.
> She has 4 dashes... no other champion has that? Mobility and Damage are the current issues in League having 4 dashes does not make her the most mobile or secure her from any kiting. And that's also why people consider Riven hard, having to use those dashes to their maximum potential, anything less will lose you the game easily. You see, the problem is what people don't understand about this, she's a jack of all trades and master of none, ( not a big of a jack as Lee, but still. ) Another way of explaining it is think of having 2 cups filled 50% with water, 1 is labeled defense while the other is labeled offense, you can pour some from 1 cup into another, whenever pouring into defense, you lose a bit from offense, it will always equally take as much as it gives. Now add more cups, they will have many more labels such as mobility, cc, range, scaling and so on, but the important thing is that they will always add up til 100% in the end. This also applies to Riven.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TimeToTroll,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4ztpt1j,comment-id=0001000200000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T06:12:59.959+0000) > > I think using winrates as a way to nerf champions are kind of Riot's problem right now, they look at the statistics and nerf a champion, often not nerfing the right thing, Riot needs to start using statistics as a way to discover what needs nerf, then test that champion themselves to really pinpoint the problem. > > Also, I don't think you should be bothered to defend any champions on this forum, this is where people with personal grudges and clouded vision comes to. I know, I'm just a glutton for punishment. I realized a LONG time ago people here don't want balance, good matchmaking, the afkers, the inters, the trolls gone. They want bad balance, bad matchmaking and the problems in this game to stay, but they want it slanted in their favor. It's why you never see post about people complaining about being on win streaks, or people complaining when their main is actually broken, or people who complain about the trolls and such when they are the opponent team.
I have never felt so relieved to find a level headed player, you have restored my sanity.
JackMcCarry (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4ztpt1j,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-15T23:18:12.047+0000) > > **All stats here are pulled from u.gg** > > {{champion:67}} ? > > Iron: 47.84% > Bronze: 49.3% > Silver: 49.98% > Gold: 50.15% > Platinum: 50.35% > Diamond: 50.4% > Master: 51.3% > GrandMaster: 49.6% > Challenger: 49.58% > > > I have to disagree with you on that. What I see here is a "high skill cap" champion being at a dogshit winrate in Iron and getting slightly better as you go higher up. > > Hell the increase in win rate is negligible compared to Riven or Katarina. > > >   > > Now... Let's look at {{champion:92}} > > Iron: 45.69% > Bronze: 45.62% > Silver: 47.99% > Gold: 49.99% > Platinum: 51.14% > Diamond: 52.41% > Master: 54.51% > GrandMaster: 54.41% > Challenger: 54.95% > > We can all agree here that Riven is a much harder champion to play than Vayne. > > >   > > Last but not least, let's look at {{champion:55}} > > Iron: 46.24% > Bronze: 48.91% > Silver: 49.98% > Gold: 50.61% > Platinum: 51.45% > Diamond: 52.85% > Master: 57.34% > GrandMaster: 52.25% > Challenger: 52.92% > > >   > > Once you get out of the absolute bottom of the barrel elo's being Bronze and Iron, Katarina and Riven are clearly the ones out of line. Why are you getting downvoted? I mean, i know why, people like to cry but not actually argue about actual facts, but it just buffels me, i've just checked u.gg aswell and nothing you're saying is wrong in any way, it's literally just pointing out hard data. So im gonna join you on this one, OP is wrong, all these champs rock a sub 50% winrate in low ELO games, you can say they are overtuned regardless, but saying they are stomping low ELO and is statisticly wrong.
He is a victim of people who refuses to have their opinions changed, ( which kind of ruins the discussion part of this forum ).
TimeToTroll (EUNE)
: I had a bit difficulty understanding your points, because it seemed as if you contradicted your own opinion several times, Jamaree seems to feel that too. This probably doesn't sound genuine coming from a Riven main, but I just thought I would allow a Riven main's opinion to be explored as well. My peak rank was diamond 2, so you don't have to worry about, (can we trust that he can speak op for riven mains?) In my experience, when I attempt to trade with somebody level 1, I'm likely to take slightly less if not equal damage to them, so trading isn't as unfair as you make it sound, she will deal just about 50% of your health and be close if not 50% from the same trade. Tell you what mate, if Riven was at 100 on a scale and some other champion was 99 then 98 and so on, take 50 away from riven and whoever was 99 will be at the top of the scale now, there will always be THE strongest trading champion, and I would argue that isn't Riven right now. You mentioned being tower dived at level 4, a Riven won't be able to take more than 4 shots from turret in maximum, getting away with tower diving level 4 requires not only for the dived one to not do anything, but also have severely low health, and in those circumstances any champion can be tower dived. 1 of your problems was that Riven zoned you early, what's wrong with that? When I play Riven I have to endure the same with Jayce, Vlad, Kennen, Gnar and some melee level 1, you do know Darius is stronger level 1, right? Camille too. I sacrifice a bit of my health to get the 3 melee minions and then I don't receive any gold until the third wave is down. There was 1 thing you said that bothered me though, and that's level advantage, nobody can zone you so hard you aren't in minion range, otherwise just fight them, a situation described as such will mean that that person will be taking tremendous minion damage and you won't. Riven already received a huge nerf on her E by 4 seconds, more nerfs and I'll be forced to switch main. I get what you are saying, and if there is a justified way to nerf Riven, so be it, but I just can't sympathize with your arguments, they sound more like a personal grudge and highly stretched from the truth.
> but yet they buffed at the same time, because they cant seem to understand the champ was too strong...and she very much can 100-0 level 1, if i still had the match i would play it for you, but i went to farm a single minion, Q AA Q Electrocute AA Q AA forces me to flash, flashes on top of me AA ignite, then spam mastery emote, i did live, with like 5 hp...had i take any dmg from anywhere then it would have been a kill... i have in no way a grudge against riven, my grudge is against fiora, but buffing her dmg was not what they should have done, they should have nerfed her E, then buffed if it felt like it was too much, like the only thing that truly pisses me off outside of her absurd early game dmg, is the fact she can animation cancel to get things off faster, i would rather that be removed and then she be buffed appropriately to compensate, as then you won't have riven pulling off her full dmg in such a short windo The thing is, I have in no way ever experienced being able to 1 shot somebody who did not try to kill me back, I don't know what champion with hyper low defensive stats you are playing, but I don't ever experience that myself. In my experience, after using my Q combo and deal 50% of their health, I become weaker than them and have to pull back to make the trade worth it. And remember that this is while using Conqueror which is better than electrocute on Riven. Also they never buffed Riven's damage, they nerfed her E by 4 seconds and buffed Q by 1 second, FYI I use resolve on second and thus have shield bash, which means I deal damage with my E, that 4 second nerf severely hurt me in defense and offense. ( I for some reason can't reply to you, it magically changes it to reply to myself. )
: Im really not tho, tell me a few things that make riven so hard? holding q? when to w? when to e? what runes to take? what makes her hard???? i dont play her much but when i do its literally just spam q and win, she has SoS which makes her god tier broken, oh am i forgeting stacking her passive for more damage on autos? i mean her kit is clean cut and easy, the champ isnt hard, its how you play her vs champs, which is an argument for any champ, riven is easy, how you choose to play her is where she becomes "hard" but even then farm up get items destroy, its clean cut my guy.
You are gold man, I'm not saying that as an insult, but I just don't see how you can talk about how broken a champion is when you aren't playing against others in my circumstances. Also, I agree that Riven is an easy champion, everybody knows that, even Riven mains, the problem is what Riven haters such as yourself refuse to admit. Champions that are easy to play are hard to master, while champions that are hard to play are easy to master. I could play Xayah for 2 weeks and I will have mastered her, but play Riven for 2 years and not reach her max potential.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yääto,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4ztpt1j,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-07-16T00:15:28.640+0000) > > Can't argue facts against biased people... xD I’m just confused on what kinds of winrates do these people expect these champions to have is all. I also find it funny how they will use high elo numbers and win rates to justify their point when they themselves are iron to gold at best like high elo matters to them.
I think using winrates as a way to nerf champions are kind of Riot's problem right now, they look at the statistics and nerf a champion, often not nerfing the right thing, Riot needs to start using statistics as a way to discover what needs nerf, then test that champion themselves to really pinpoint the problem. Also, I don't think you should be bothered to defend any champions on this forum, this is where people with personal grudges and clouded vision comes to.
: the only reason riven doesnt have a 80% winrate is low elo players go hey im box box and can 1v5 and fail at it she isnt hard at all push buttons and win, give her mana or energy as a resource and she will plumit to the depths, whats hard about her? spamming q? pressing w to stun? pressing e to shield? pressing r once then again when they low? oh is it jumping over walls? the ability tells you how if you dont read it thats your issue? oh wait its the animation cancels? oh clicking a button while she is in animation real tough, a high skill champ is azir a champ that has to play around his soldiers. riven is braindead like garen press buttons and win
Azir is the champion with most mechanics, there's no denying that, everybody agrees. But I think it's a well known fact that Riven comes in a second place, just a tiny bit above Irelia. I think you underestimate Riven's difficulty a bit there, mate.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4ztpt1j,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T04:14:59.405+0000) > > So if we can’t use win rates, how is a system based off conjecture a good basis on what is strong or not? > > What if I say I think Ryze is too strong, or Gnar? What makes my post any more or less valid. > > Riven is good in the right hands, but if you don’t let her free harass you early, a Riven isn’t going to 100 to zero you under tower at level 3, that doesn’t happen. ryze/gnar can't 1 shot you at level 1 YES SHE CAN, I LITERALLY HAD IT HAPPEN TO ME, i even flashed, which she simply followed up with a flash, and the worst part about it? she got out alive still, and it's not so much as free harass as it is she goes straight ham to force you out of the lane, since level 1 with ignite she has so much kill potential its stupid
I had a bit difficulty understanding your points, because it seemed as if you contradicted your own opinion several times, Jamaree seems to feel that too. This probably doesn't sound genuine coming from a Riven main, but I just thought I would allow a Riven main's opinion to be explored as well. My peak rank was diamond 2, so you don't have to worry about, (can we trust that he can speak op for riven mains?) In my experience, when I attempt to trade with somebody level 1, I'm likely to take slightly less if not equal damage to them, so trading isn't as unfair as you make it sound, she will deal just about 50% of your health and be close if not 50% from the same trade. Tell you what mate, if Riven was at 100 on a scale and some other champion was 99 then 98 and so on, take 50 away from riven and whoever was 99 will be at the top of the scale now, there will always be THE strongest trading champion, and I would argue that isn't Riven right now. You mentioned being tower dived at level 4, a Riven won't be able to take more than 4 shots from turret in maximum, getting away with tower diving level 4 requires not only for the dived one to not do anything, but also have severely low health, and in those circumstances any champion can be tower dived. 1 of your problems was that Riven zoned you early, what's wrong with that? When I play Riven I have to endure the same with Jayce, Vlad, Kennen, Gnar and some melee level 1, you do know Darius is stronger level 1, right? Camille too. I sacrifice a bit of my health to get the 3 melee minions and then I don't receive any gold until the third wave is down. There was 1 thing you said that bothered me though, and that's level advantage, nobody can zone you so hard you aren't in minion range, otherwise just fight them, a situation described as such will mean that that person will be taking tremendous minion damage and you won't. Riven already received a huge nerf on her E by 4 seconds, more nerfs and I'll be forced to switch main. I get what you are saying, and if there is a justified way to nerf Riven, so be it, but I just can't sympathize with your arguments, they sound more like a personal grudge and highly stretched from the truth.
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TimeToTroll

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