: There's never been an actually **good** reason for Brand to be mid instead of support except more AP scaling and gold. His kit rewards him best for fighting multiple champions at once so of course he benefits more in a lane with more champions. Passive: AoE explosion W: AoE explosion E: Spreads damage R: Spreads damage Sure he has practically no utility (stun on Q) but his kit favors hitting a lot of targets.
thank you for the quick rundown of the champion, ive been playing brand on and off for like 3 years with over a million points. My question was towards Meddler, to make Brand a better midlaner therefore his kit would need to be changed.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 23
Any changes to {{champion:63}} to better suit mid than support?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 2
Could you share your thoughts on {{champion:63}} ? What is your opinion on that he is more of a support than a midlaner? Will we see some adjustments to change that?
Meddler (NA)
: A minimum of 1 item at least from PVE rounds beyond the first three should be in there in 9.14, though from memory one of the rounds is bugged and not always dropping an item as intended. I'll get some longer thoughts together (probably for next week) on how we're approaching the first three rounds and why we don't believe everyone getting an identical number of items is the right approach.
> A minimum of 1 item at least from PVE rounds beyond the first three should be in there in 9.14, 1 item, as in a completed item, or 1 item as a component? If 1 item, is it 2 component, or just 1 +1 that comes with the first picked champ?
Mimr (EUW)
: Honestly, Vel'Koz should never have been allowed to go support (just like stuff like Brand, Zyra and Xerath). They just don't have any way to, well, support their ADC besides some CC that is in their kits for self defense and combo setup. Sure, they can work with ADC's that have a good earlygame or who are really safe ({{champion:81}} ) but someone who wants to play, say, Kog'Maw or Jinx is going to be rightfully angry because you provide nothing to alleviate their weak early games. If you want to play a support that can deal damage while you have a Jinx or something, pick Lux or something, that way you have at least a shield to throw out.
Supporting doesn't necessarily means wiping the adcs butt clean with healing and shielding. This isnt season 2-3 anymore.
Εlin (EUW)
: People troll my games because I pick Vel'koz support.
With over 200k points and 370 matches, the 52%wr is bad, even if you lost 8-9 matches because of your pick.
: Please consider totally or partially reverting the W radius nerf from last year. W feels unusable without having already landed her stun.
Yeah revert that and she will be fine.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TomiMan7,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=co4QiHTZ,comment-id=000300010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-12T08:53:56.241+0000) > > HE CANNOT GET OFF ALL 4 OF HIS ABILITIES IN 0.3 SECONDS IF JUST ONE OF THEM TAKES 0.25 SECONDS TO DO. OMG. true but he can get everything off in 0.75 seconds, which if he dies he still took half the enemies health bars with him
Well 4 times 0.25 is 1 second, now add the delay of his W witch is 0.625 seconds plus the delay of his passive witch is 2 seconds, and now all of the sudden we are talking about roughly 3.5 seconds of a window where you can AA for lifesteal, chug your potions to counter the burn dmg, to run away from each other to not set up a chain reaction, or get healed/shielded by a support.
: Again, a cast time is not what i said. Im not reading your next response since you clearly didnt read mine.
HE CANNOT GET OFF ALL 4 OF HIS ABILITIES IN 0.3 SECONDS IF JUST ONE OF THEM TAKES 0.25 SECONDS TO DO. OMG.
: Cast time =/= time it takes for brand to use an ability.
3*0,25 second cast time + the W delay is nowhere near the 0,3 second you said. Either way, what you said is still not true, no matter how you wanna put it.
: Thats not what i said, thats a cast time.
> He casts abilities way too fast and if he gets caught it only takes him like 0.3 seconds to get all 4 abilities off You said this. The delay on hiw W is more than 0.3 seconds alone lol. What you said is simply not true.
: No one is saying it was on his e. I simply pointing out that it wasn't that difficult to apply the passive which you were implying.
His E has 625 Range witch is less than his AA range.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: all his abilities have 0.25 sec cast time tho xd?
On top of a .625 second delay on hiw W xd
: He needs the W range nerfed imo. It's way longer range than the majority of supports' poke, making trading with him almost impossible. Let him do a ton of damage, but not at super long ranges.
Good thing he is not supposed to be a support so can we start balancing him around mid and not support
Thilmer (EUW)
: The whole problem here is how Riot decided to turn a decent midlaner into a powerful support who now is considerably weaker in mid lane.
He was never a decent midlaner hence he fot a rework in the first place.
: Damn I'm a little late. Hey Meddler, as you were just working on Brand last patch and gave him a buff that benefitted midlane more than it did support (still hardly noticable imo), do you consider working on him a bit more? In the BrandMains subreddit you oftentimes read that people want to see a shift from base damage to higher scaling in his passive explosion. On this way his poke and his burst would stay virtually the same, keeping him as the cheap, base damage oriented burst mage that he is on botlane. At the same time it would open up the nieche for Brand to function as a tank buster from the midlane, as a high AP ratio on his % dmg explosion would reward high AP values against high health targets, while not being too broken against squishy targets (especially since his base spells have such a low AP ratio). It would give him a proper nieche, something that Brand kind of lacks right now (beside the "teamfight mage", but yet again, which mage is not good in teamfights?). So what do you think, would you consider a change like that?
https://www.reddit.com/r/BrandMains/comments/btnwyx/with_the_amount_of_reworks_recently_i_feel_like/ If you are interested in the post, its up now!
: Damn I'm a little late. Hey Meddler, as you were just working on Brand last patch and gave him a buff that benefitted midlane more than it did support (still hardly noticable imo), do you consider working on him a bit more? In the BrandMains subreddit you oftentimes read that people want to see a shift from base damage to higher scaling in his passive explosion. On this way his poke and his burst would stay virtually the same, keeping him as the cheap, base damage oriented burst mage that he is on botlane. At the same time it would open up the nieche for Brand to function as a tank buster from the midlane, as a high AP ratio on his % dmg explosion would reward high AP values against high health targets, while not being too broken against squishy targets (especially since his base spells have such a low AP ratio). It would give him a proper nieche, something that Brand kind of lacks right now (beside the "teamfight mage", but yet again, which mage is not good in teamfights?). So what do you think, would you consider a change like that?
If you read BrandMains subreddit you probably know my name. Im currently working on a draft about the exact same thing tagging some Rioters, Im planing to release that post in 2-3 days with a proposed rework/rebalance. Come by maybe they will notice that :)
Teíto (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=TomiMan7,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6nEuYRvs,comment-id=0036000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T18:01:27.669+0000) > > I mean let the guy work alone...just when he does something let there be anyone to say "No this is toxic, we not gonna ship XY champion like this. Make a new alteration." At the end of the day his reworks will be nerfed/altered anyways after a few weeks. > > I can see that being added tho..WW falls off lategame this could have some benefit on his lategame success, depending how big the AOE is and how long the fear lasts. His E already automatically activates around Warwick when he attaches to someone with R.
If it was already up, but with this WW could leap in, fear the enemy, do his things and then E dmg reduction/fear out, or go even deeper. Could make him a better disruptor late game.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TomiMan7,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6nEuYRvs,comment-id=0036000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T18:01:27.669+0000) > > I mean let the guy work alone...just when he does something let there be anyone to say "No this is toxic, we not gonna ship XY champion like this. Make a new alteration." At the end of the day his reworks will be nerfed/altered anyways after a few weeks. > > I can see that being added tho..WW falls off lategame this could have some benefit on his lategame success, depending how big the AOE is and how long the fear lasts. Having 2 fears, 1 on ulti and another on e? No champion even has that, and will be toxic for sure if you ask me. WW is strong early and mid. The main counterplay is the late game. Just how how some champions they have a weak early and strong mid/late and vice versa, WW has that feature and all champs should have that.
> Having 2 fears, 1 on ulti and another on e? No champion even has that, and will be toxic for sure if you ask me. That wont change his early power since an AOE fear wont affect anyone in a 2v1 gank situation, but in teamfights in can be a powerfull thing, and lategame WW become an ult bot anyways.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TomiMan7,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6nEuYRvs,comment-id=00360000,timestamp=2019-05-24T16:38:37.245+0000) > > Lets reshape that a bit: 2- ct shouldn't be designing any champions **without any leash on him.** > > WW was designed by CT BUT he was oversaw by others therefore WW didnt become another "CT champion", and turned out to be a pretty fun champion that is noob friendly. I'm not gonna deny that one but the guy didn't like the WW rework (despite being a success) due to not working alone. Rumor has it he wanted to add an AOE fear on WW's ulti. If he doesn't like working with a team, doesn't like people disagreeing with him over something, then he simply doesn't belong here. Sometimes in life, you have to work with others even if you don't want to and if it seemed the right thing, I went through that and was mature enough for it. But apparently that guy who's like 30 years older than me, doesn't seem to even get that most of the playerbase don't want him to work alone since apparently him getting fired for such shit work is against moral value. Idk what moral value is in America, but holy shit i bet it's a bad one.
I mean let the guy work alone...just when he does something let there be anyone to say "No this is toxic, we not gonna ship XY champion like this. Make a new alteration." At the end of the day his reworks will be nerfed/altered anyways after a few weeks. > Rumor has it he wanted to add an AOE fear on WW's ulti. I can see that being added tho..WW falls off lategame this could have some benefit on his lategame success, depending how big the AOE is and how long the fear lasts.
Saianna (EUNE)
: > They wanted to rework her because her kit was bad for the game, but they gave the rework to CertainlyT 'nuff said. You can't have both "great design that works with the game" and "CertainlyT" in the same sentence, cause those 2 things contradict each other.
{{champion:19}} is a CT champion, but CT was oversaw by another designer.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: With how Akali is going through so much hell, and probably worse for the players who play her, when are you ever going to learn that: 1- Akali is officially an overloaded failure? 2- ct shouldn't be designing any champions?
> 2- ct shouldn't be designing any champions? Lets reshape that a bit: 2- ct shouldn't be designing any champions **without any leash on him.** WW was designed by CT BUT he was oversaw by others therefore WW didnt become another "CT champion", and turned out to be a pretty fun champion that is noob friendly.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 24
After all these small champion changes can {{champion:63}} get one too? Simple number changes wont make his midlane worthwile without completely breaking his support performance.
: The fact you get upvoted kinda prove you don't know what tool Yasuo need to win lane against mage/make him able to do properly his job in skirmish/TF. Whatever, it is the gameplay board, what did I expect, a conversation that isn't about black or white.
> don't know what tool Yasuo need to win lane against mage/make him able to do properly his job in skirmish/TF You mean the 6 chances to dodge a spell each wave on a 0.5 to 0.1 second CD, a free shield that is already blocking 100dmg at lvl1 a windshield that block anything from any angle from both sides? Yeah it must be hard to play against a mage with skillshots when you can just dodge them, while you also regen your passive shield, oh but they have a point and click spell? oh wait you have your windwall that will block it anyways. You also have a better waveclear early too.
: Because unlike akali, he has a very large and very dedicated player base. Riot has said and released data before that shows how his pickrate remains pretty consistent, regardless of his winrate. This implies that a large number of his players are yasuo mains. As such, any drop or increase in winrate can be a cause for alarm, as it implies that people who are experienced with him are losing or winning more
> his implies that a large number of his players are yasuo mains. That doesnt nesseceraly means that they are all yasuo mains. There are champions that are played regardless if they are good or bad. Vayne is a really good example of this. Not to mention zed, yasuo, and all these flashy champions. Only difference is that those so called wannabe mains will cry out for buffs and riot will deliver since skin $$(Ever wondered why ahri has a 53-54% wr for ages?). Good example for this when they pre-buffed yasuo when they reworked the adc items and who would have thought they ended up nerfing him afterwards. They wont leave yasuo in a "poor" state(where he should be along side with akali thx to how hard those champs supposed to be) cos that will get a backlash from a lotta ppl. These are facts since all of these things are happened.
: The one shot concept is usually referred to kill somebody without let him time to react. It doesn't need to mean kill with only one ability.
sooooo going by this definition since when brand does oneshot you EVER? His W has a 0,625 second delay with a 0,250 cast time, his passive circle alone takes 2 second to expload, overall you have atleast 3 second to react. Since when is that a oneshot by your definition? A rengar jumping on your and killing you in 0,5 second IS a oneshot. Killing someone in 3 seconds, or sometimes more if faaaaar from oneshotting. A lot of the times, he doesnt even kill you in one rotation if you ever bother to build any mr.
Ozzburne (NA)
: If you think its "fair" for a projectile to go through a wall that is clearly up, then you're just delusional
If you think wind can form a wall like that, than you dont know how wind works... /s
: Let's say they make this bug becoming an intended mechanic. What do you buff about Yasuo then? Base hp? HP regen? Shield creation? He surely doesn't more damage or MS, WW having lower CD will make people even more furious. So what do you do for him?
Why would you want to buff anything at all on him? He supposed to be a hard champion, like akali, yet she gets nerfs even tho she had a 46%wr. A lot of new/noob players drag these champs winrate down. That doesnt mean they need buffs.
TisBis (NA)
: Moe: Why did I get damaged by Janna??? Janna isn't in the game? JANNA'S ON MY TEAM?
I mean when Brand stunnes an enemy, they have Jannas W icon as a debuff, Rylias slow has {{item:3110}} icon. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: That post was created by me, so i exactly know what it says and why. The only reason why brand WAS barely playable in the midlane cos he had the overtuned passive dmg, and you could poke the enemy out of lane, and thats it. You couldnt push them under turret and roam, or just farm it up and scale. None of them works. If you cannot see the correlation between things dont talk about them.
doesnt seem so if you think the only reason he is played as a support is that the good old "he has high base low ratio" stuff.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 17
Did the {{champion:63}} biffs acomplish what you guys wanted?
: Looks like you still need too. That page says "due to the passive nerfs" saying that he went bot and left mid lane because of it, which is what I've been saying all along. Mastery points don't care if you don't take the time to learn what Riot does with the champ in the meantime.
That post was created by me, so i exactly know what it says and why. The only reason why brand WAS barely playable in the midlane cos he had the overtuned passive dmg, and you could poke the enemy out of lane, and thats it. You couldnt push them under turret and roam, or just farm it up and scale. None of them works. If you cannot see the correlation between things dont talk about them.
: I'm not clueless. Be respectful. Maybe you need to go look through the patch notes then bud. When they nerfed his numbers, he went bot. Not because he has bad waveclear right now. Try again when you can respond in a nice way, and not belittle people who actually know what they are talking about. {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
I have over a million mastery point with brand so maybe, just MAYBE i know the champ just little bit better. I've spent more time anallising those sites data than you have spent playing the champ. Here have some knowledge. https://www.reddit.com/r/BrandMains/comments/b9rto6/riot_is_completely_abandoned_brand_as_a_midlaner/ Read. Understand. Then come back.
: Cause Brand's numbers were changed, that's why. That isn't the case for the others- Lux, Vel, Xerath- they were pushed bot because of the abundance of high mobility overpowered shit. There's a difference bro, so yes, "midlaner that goes bot" does hold up.
You are completely clueless why then lol. Go to op.gg or lolalitics, or u.gg and check midlane brands cs score and gold. It is amongst the top3/top10 worst alomgst all midlaners. There were patches were only leblanc had lowers cs than brand and she is known to have absolutely shit waveclear. Why go mid when you earn lower gold than as a support because you have dogshit waveclear and push potential. Try again when you ACTUALLY understand why brand is played as a support. There is a reason why riot just buffed his E to help his waveclear.
: Zyra and Morgana were pushed bot by Riot, just like Karma. They were forced there. Lux is STILL a midlaner that goes bot, just like Xerath, Vel'Koz and Brand. They aren't **real** supports like Nami, Sona, Janna, etc.
Try playing Brand in the midlane vs botlane once in your life, and you will see why "midlaner that goes bot" doesnt hold up
Sukishoo (NA)
: So a talking bird is okay? {{champion:34}}
{{champion:498}} {{champion:497}} we also have a goat that heals tho {{champion:16}}
SSmotzer (NA)
: Nah, nah, the solution is to remove the ticks of damage entirely and replace them with a gradual dot that does not proc or refresh Rylias+Liandries.
Thats not a solution that is a nerf, and you are currently complaining about brand, and completely ignoring the bug :)
: I dont know if it was a bug fix or not but brand's passive hasn't been procing spelltheif for a while either.
That was a balance stuff they did way back then. One spell can only proc it once. Blaze can still proc it twice if you use all of your stacks, and you gain a stack while you have blaze on an enemy :)
Rioter Comments
: I just watched the numbers in a Practice Tool game. While slowed, the ticks alternated between the slowed and non-slowed values each half-second (with a single stack of Blaze).
You are actually right! It deals 68 with the stacked buff from liandries and rylias and 41 without rylias, and it alternates!
: Brand's passive with Rylai's and Liandry's - Every other proc misses out on slow bonus
How did you exactly checked that the dmg wasnt enhanced?
: If he isnt then Nerf his CC. He needs a damage nerf regardless he shouldnt have so much % damage. and his passive needs to go on cooldown after procing an explosion
Imagine complaining about a champion and not even knowing his kit.
SirHydro (NA)
: He has a right to complain, but I agree, he should do so more intelligently. I don't think he realizes just because a move is point and click does not mean there is no cost to it. By his OWN logic, Tahm's 3 auto attacks are *point and click* and cost no mana *But costs HP* Well Brand's Spells cost mana, and HP since even a Brand bot's e~q combo isn't fast enough to prevent the first instance of trade-back damage. Brand pays mana, HP, and *not misclicking those point and clicks* Tahm only costs HP. He doesn't even provide a proper counter point to compliment his argument. His entire argument is poorly structured. And when you calmly point it all out, they're gonna branch out in every which direction grasp for straws and just simply to refuse to believe anything different.
Honestly im tires to argue with these ppl. They have almost zero game knowledge and refusing to admit when a champion has legit counterplays.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
Hey Meddler! Would you mind checking this reddit thread out? https://www.reddit.com/r/BrandMains/comments/bmijpv/how_do_you_guys_useutilise_brands_passive/ Do you think this change could be implemented in any way?
: Doesnt mean hes not broken at all hello? Akali in master+ has 56 wr while below shes at 43 or so :)
Thats the exact opposite 😂😂😂 she is better in high elo where ppl know how to play her Brand even in low elo no longer has 52+wr and as you go up in elo, where ppl actually know how to play, and to play against him he gets massively dicked hence the 45% wr. Jesus why do i even talk with you
: ***
Playrate doesnt equal winrate 😂dafaq r u even talking about?
: whats his issue then?
I just told you. Lowest cs score and gold. Therefore shit waveclear. He has high cds and mana costs. You can buff his ap ratios as much as you want it wont help any of these issues. Once you use your E for waveclear you cant use your stun for 10 seconds. If you max your E second to help that you will use about 200 mana just to clear 3 caster minions. Than another 200 to get the melees LOW HP not even kill them. Thats 400 mana just for one wave. Unacceptable for a midlane mage.
: Idk how does support works vs mid laning In terms of scaling vs base damages. I'm guessing mid Lane is for scalers while support is mainly base damages. So I think lower his bases by a small nudge by increase his scaling by 20%
You have no idea why he is not played mid. He has the second lowest creep score and top8 lowest gold income in the midlane. A simple dmg shift will only make sure that he wont be played at all.
: He has to land atleast 1 of his spells, he can use his e and r.... Tahm sacrifices hp to land his autos..hes melee -.-
His E has lower range than his AA. So if you get hit by that its your fault. Stop complaining and learn to how to counter him.
: This is a really bad idea. Brand is in a good spot, and I don't know why they want to buff him.
45%wr in dia and 48%in plat as midlaner you think is a good spot?
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TomiMan7

Level 184 (EUNE)
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