: If you have no interest in taking towers
My friend, 1) if you play support do start with these items {{item:3850}} {{item:3858}} {{item:3854}} {{item:3862}} because for support there is no minions (as in top/mid/bot lane) or monsters(as in jungle) to farm and get gold. Because we share lane with another role, we need these items to generate gold. 2) I am not high elo myself and don't take it negatively, in bronze 4 support is the last role I would suggest you to play, to climb. 3) Imo any game upto high silver is simply who is capable of solo carrying and finishing the game. Play Jg>Mid>Top>Adc>Supp and just be the win condition. 4) If you play support, play {{champion:235}}, {{champion:555}} and mage supports only. Play to stomp the lane and get towers+drakes with your adc and jg. If you want to play a marksmen supp, stick to {{champion:22}} and abuse her E to get vision to play around it. 5) Never, I mean **NEVER** argue or write in chat because players will not listen and writing will just waste time for you. Gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} p.s: {{champion:11}} is one of the best ways to win games in low elo and just learn basic jungling to win games easily. You can literally go 1v5 in mid-late games to win, solo take baron and solo push to take turrets.
: Gold 1 in diamond 2 mmr
DO submit a [ticket ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new)and update the post with details if they give any :) I know matching is worse, but this maybe due to stuff like account transfer.
: ChickenWrap's handy-dandy guide to leaving Silver in Season 10 (This is also an AMA about League)!
Give tips for dealing with silver ADC bots who are in like 80%of games in place of human players.{{sticker:sg-lulu}}
: Normal matchmaking has always been terrible.
It is flex Q.
boel (EUNE)
: Matchmaking sucks
It is because matching is inclined more towards giving games fast and less or not at all towards giving fair games. I assume you and the support were pre and mid+APC were pre; in order to lower Q time it put you two groups together, so that average mmr of your team+premade mmr is nearby your opponent team mmr. Always check your teammates profiles during champ select and dodge such games. Gl hf{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Weexazys (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Uraraka,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HowHPruA,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-27T07:58:50.603+0000) > > I may know more things, be more skilled than player X with 1000 games and 3+ ranks above me-but because I play only 200 games I can get stuck in lower rank. One can get stuck in low elo due to matching and personally I hit Silver 1 100LP by ~75 games and took ~125 additional games , 5 promos in total to reach Gold 4 0LP. I don't disagree with you on learning will lead to climbing, but matchmaking forces players to play more games to climb and someone who may not have time to grind won't climb even if they deserve it. Yeah, but thats with every game and everything in life, you gotta put time into something you wanna get better at, no matter how much you know about the book its expereince/practice that are gonna make the most difference. Although putting only time into it wont also work, ive seen/have many friends that are stuck in bronze and silver and play twice as much as i do. I climbed all the way trough only putting in 3 to 4 games a day with some occasional weekends here and there where i was able to play for the whole/half weekend. I think a good fix would be removing promos between divisions and only keeping the promos between ranks. Theres not much difference between a Silver 1 and a Silver 2 players, so i dont really understand why you'd need promos to get through, all it does is put more stress/RNG Team Difference between both.
> [{quoted}](name=Weexazys,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HowHPruA,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-28T05:37:03.765+0000) > > Yeah, but thats with every game and everything in life, you gotta put time into something you wanna get better at, no matter how much you know about the book its expereince/practice that are gonna make the most difference. Although putting only time into it wont also work, ive seen/have many friends that are stuck in bronze and silver and play twice as much as i do. I climbed all the way trough only putting in 3 to 4 games a day with some occasional weekends here and there where i was able to play for the whole/half weekend. > > I think a good fix would be removing promos between divisions and only keeping the promos between ranks. Theres not much difference between a Silver 1 and a Silver 2 players, so i dont really understand why you'd need promos to get through, all it does is put more stress/RNG Team Difference between both. True. Imo Promo series exist because Demotion shields are there and like TFT having neither of them, SR should also remove both because just by it, the grinding can be reduced. Even for divisions promos aren't needed, because Silver 1 and Gold 4 aren't actually different xD
wCTed (EUW)
: Guys You are absolutely right if u are hardstuck . now i understand you
Hello, I appreciate your post and thanks for it. If you post your main account it will add more credibility to the post and gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Weexazys (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Uraraka,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HowHPruA,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-12-24T09:30:19.823+0000) > > New players aren't put in most of the games at Gold 1 or high gold, but in Gold 4 or high silver, but I agree with you. Because it is better for newer players to climb, matching puts them near average mmr(which is usually around Silver 1-2, may vary based on server). It is good for everyone if these fresh accounts are put in low silver/high bronze imo, but not everyone will accept it because it may lengthen climbing time for new players and has more chances of getting them stuck in elo below their actual rank due to bad matchmaking. no one gets stuck in low elo if they dont deserve it tho. i was a bronze player before and i learned the game and climbed through, im now at gold/plat with a positive winrate, its rough in the start but if you deserve a better rank youll eventually get it.
> [{quoted}](name=Weexazys,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HowHPruA,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-27T04:16:54.709+0000) > > no one gets stuck in low elo if they dont deserve it tho. i was a bronze player before and i learned the game and climbed through, im now at gold/plat with a positive winrate, its rough in the start but if you deserve a better rank youll eventually get it. I may know more things, be more skilled than player X with 1000 games and 3+ ranks above me-but because I play only 200 games I can get stuck in lower rank. One can get stuck in low elo due to matching and personally I hit Silver 1 100LP by ~75 games and took ~125 additional games , 5 promos in total to reach Gold 4 0LP. I don't disagree with you on learning will lead to climbing, but matchmaking forces players to play more games to climb and someone who may not have time to grind won't climb even if they deserve it.
Destaice (NA)
: ADC mains are the type of people that steal from the homeless
Wait! Are you saying that you never played support all these years or never paid attention to this taking place in your games from other roles {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Zac x Me (NA)
: Still funny how people can afk at the fountain
There is literally no punishment for afk and players who write leaverbuster/Low Priority Queue is punishment are simple trolls.{{sticker:leblanc-funny}}
: What's your most satisfying League Moment?
https://prnt.sc/qfb1rn Utility {{champion:99}} worked well despite me being a total noob back then and players getting surprised seeing me not taking/stealing their kills. p.s: I am still a total noob.
PzyXo (EUW)
: Nobody asked for a Diana rework with buffs
I heard that {{champion:131}} is getting a dragon slayer skin in next patch or so xD
HalexUwU (NA)
: Is there an anti hook support?
Others have pretty much covered all options, but here is an off-meta list: {{champion:516}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:35}} (though some consider him meta supp, imo he is off-meta now)
Weexazys (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Uraraka,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HowHPruA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-20T17:41:42.366+0000) > > **Always** check teammates profiles during champ select and dodge such games. If you dodge almost every game you get, you wont practically play the game. Why put new accounts 3 ranks above the lowest rank? Smurfs? Cant they play 2/3 items in Bronze/Silver elo before getting to Gold?
> [{quoted}](name=Weexazys,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HowHPruA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-21T02:25:51.643+0000) > > If you dodge almost every game you get, you wont practically play the game. Why put new accounts 3 ranks above the lowest rank? Smurfs? Cant they play 2/3 items in Bronze/Silver elo before getting to Gold? New players aren't put in most of the games at Gold 1 or high gold, but in Gold 4 or high silver, but I agree with you. Because it is better for newer players to climb, matching puts them near average mmr(which is usually around Silver 1-2, may vary based on server). It is good for everyone if these fresh accounts are put in low silver/high bronze imo, but not everyone will accept it because it may lengthen climbing time for new players and has more chances of getting them stuck in elo below their actual rank due to bad matchmaking.
: Yeeeah, the Fiora main (_MY EYES, MY EYEEEES_) has a point (**MY EEEEEYEEEES**) in that I have yet to have someone who doesn't qualify for any one of those 7 groupings. Ironically, I've had enemy teams who often seem to be in their prime but it's whatever.
If we're concerned about good games, we should do stuff like this-because matchmaking is aimed at forcing us to grind games/play more games to climb. As a supp, it is **always** better to have good teammates than take gambles of getting good RNG or good luck. Personally, I reached Silver 1 100 LP by ~75 games and could reach Gold 4 0LP by ~200 games; I played the promo series 5 times and only succeeded at 5th time, when I was dodging like 2-3 games daily and only after checking game histories of all players I played with, I understood that dodging is far better than playing and tilting ourselves, while ruining mmr with RNG matchings.
: > [{quoted}](name=Uraraka,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zpsltAkg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-23T05:49:39.174+0000) > > Can you link the profile or the name of the player? Unless they were ranked in diamond past season or the profile update is done before a long time, I don't think this kind of matching will happen. I can't as I will get banned because Riot lul He wasn't diamond, in fact, he's a fresh account, didn't play ranked in the past. The profile update is 25 minutes ago, and I checked his client profile too
> [{quoted}](name=Veloz Destello,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zpsltAkg,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-23T13:55:21.977+0000) > > I can't as I will get banned because Riot lul > > He wasn't diamond, in fact, he's a fresh account, didn't play ranked in the past. The profile update is 25 minutes ago, and I checked his client profile too Right xD But you can still reply and delete the post I guess as I would get the update for the reply but can't see it in this discussion' anyway, if he wasn't diamond and from the screenshot you shared in other post, I assume that it is just matchmaking doing its usual job of making unfair games to get lower queue times {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} Always check teammates profiles to dodge games like this. Other than this we can't do much and gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: What is this bullshit matchmaking? How is acceptable to have a negative wr Gold in a diamond game?
Can you link the profile or the name of the player? Unless they were ranked in diamond past season or the profile update is done before a long time, I don't think this kind of matching will happen.
: Seriously, is it nearly impossible to get to Gold playing support?
Start playing{{champion:143}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:235}} {{champion:111}} and even {{champion:74}} if you're good with him. **Always**check your teammates profiles and dodge games-if their rank is +/-2 , if they have less win ratio, low number of games played, very low level (30-50), if they're on lose streak, autofill (especially adc and jg), very poor kp,kda,.... Despite performing well in support the role itself depends on team being good and don't listen to consolation comments like "you're in rank you deserve". If possible find a duo partner, adc or jg and if you're playing {{champion:103}} support try glacial augment rune and glacial items.
Uraraka (EUNE)
: > The starting MMR seems to be roughly around high silver and low gold. I Had it pegged at an average Tier of Silver 2 but it seems to have changed. It looks like Riot redistributed the MMR range that Ranks cover, they did this prior in season 1 and 2 as well as the years they added new divisions. I don't have enough data, but what I see from my main, smurf and my friends' accounts is that, starting tier is around average rank of the server, may vary from Gold 4 to Silver 2. > Players who rely on scouting and Dodgeing to climb will run into a wall pretty quickly if they don't have the skillset to match game average. In practice what will happen is they rely more and more on teammates so games feel more and more outside of their control. Need 2 folks to play better then the enemy turns into them eventually needing all 4 folks to play better. My personal opinion is that we should spam normals and flex queue games, because chances of improving are great in that, despite players complaining about how matching is even more unfair there. I played flex queue first and I was put up against plat and gold players mostly, diamond players and silver players rarely(based on solo queue ranks) which is why I learnt the game faster. I agree that playing against higher ranked players is unfair, not fun-but we will learn ton of things by experience, which actually increases our skill ceiling. This can be utilized to over come the drawback of inflating our mmr with dodging in solo queue. However improving from normal/flex is really hard because players having "its just normal or flex" mentality to perform bad is very high. > And yet All you find is complaints about MM in Hots Hell many of the threads can be copy and pasted to sound like the same MM complaints in Leauge. > Can the ranked system please be fixed? > > This Ranked System is attrocious > > There are trade offs that get made to run a non-stop que that's a team game at its core. Having lived thru honor system Matchmaking in Wc3 custom games for Dota, I will say that MMR/Team modified Elo systems are vastly superior options for match quality. You never get away from the fact that PvP games are driven by players. People don't give a shit about team comps? MM cant fix that issue as it happens after lobby is made. Some one gives up if they lose lane? MM cant fix that, after lobby. > > Hence behavior systems are the best way to up match quality. That said there is only so much hand holding Devs can do. Like, an example is in game hints and the Tutorial setting an expectation that players know what a balanced team comp is vs The MM solution of Forceing champion picks for balanced team comps. OW has a comp helper "to many dps. No healer" but would that be beneficial for league or would players completely ignore it to play what they want like many do in OW. Yes. PRA is brought to compensate it, but it can't completely balance out bad mm. Having it is better because it reduces some damage and it is exactly like you say; we can get MVP in 10 games straight and lose all 10 games because our teammates wanted to play different game. This can be included as deterministic rng factor while making games, which will improve the matching overall. Truly random rng can never be estimated or calculated, but can be controlled how much impact it has on games. Iirc you've given some suggestion like having a "pre-game lobby" in past and though it won't fix problems, it will help in avoiding some problems. Same way, MM can't fix all problems and should always be aimed at avoiding problems. > If Riot wanted to make the game grindy. They could half their MMR gains? If they wanted to manipulate their ladder and be unethical about manipulating population. They could Slant their MMR gains. That's also un-needed as they can just change what MMR range a rank represents any time they wish as that slants LP gains. > > All of the above is something they can do so tell me why they need to try and manipulate matches? when they can easily change their rating values and generation to impact 100% of the ladder. Riot controls the Riot API so if there is information they don't want to share the just don't give it to folks right? Though mmr is hidden, we can roughly grasp what and how the mmr system works. Things like manipulation mmr directly can be found out easily than the manipulation of it indirectly, because with halved mmr gain games will be more grindy. We can simply play two accounts- 1) one without any dodging, play all games and 2) other with dodging, avoid games which are having bad teammates. if #2 account hits X rank, even 10% games less than #1 it simply means that RIOT forces us to grind games. #2 requires API to be real data and not manipulated one and if by any chance RIOT modifies API it can be found out too. This can be tested and easily proved by any player, so we can't say that RIOT doesn't want to make game grindy. > You and I both feel Que priority on speed is to high, but your also saying you think it takes time to look to control results, so its shifting thru the RNG players to find a way to manipulate a game prior to lobby but you also admit that player behavior is unreliable. Random tilt, Random AFK. So even if there's an Ideal player to fix matches ya cant 100% count on it to work. Low queue time is naturally unfair matching in most of the times, because the mmr range of players are allowed to be far apart. After streaks (win/loss) and in promos it is not hard to add few conditions to make teams to work in certain way; for example a player who got reported for inting in 3 games and having kda like 2/20/2, 1/15/5, 3/16/1 is not **random** bad player or **random tilt** appearing in player. What can be deterministic due to data is used in it and it is not the true random rng; in an external site like porofessor, this deterministic data is used for tags like "bad mood"- this player performs badly after losing in 3 games (for example) which can quantify some portion of the random tilt, because they've been doing it over time. Next time we play ranked, let us log the data-especially the porofessor team screens to see how RIOT actually does this. > Which brings me to this, are players tilting and costing games so common they can be easily found? If MM is to fast then there would need to be a surplus of players like this to "rig" games or it would have to search longer to find a ringer? Yet if they are that common then wouldent they be in games anyhow regardless? > > Look at the distribution if only 10% of the playerbase is toxic,tilted, or some kind of negative teammate? That's a lot of games impacted as 10% = 1 in 10 people. So your seeing them in almost every game as there's 10 folks per match. > > Also I hate when folks start counting at 3 games for a streak like its significant. It is Super common even at 50% odds and only is more common at un-even odds. Ok, let us assume 4 tags(which porofessor uses): **Hot streak**: Player wins X games in a row, X=3,4,5,6... **Good mood**: player performs well after winning X games. **Cold streak**: player loses X games in a row, X=3,4,5,6.... **Bad mood**: player performs worse after losing X games. It is not hard to find Good mood and bad mood, because it is already implemented by sites like porofessor. Over time, we can see that as X increases, our teammates will have X of opposite value. That is why after a win streak we get someone who will feed more to make us lose game or after a lose streak we get someone who can carry us despite us feeding or someone in opponent team will feed more than us. "Rigging" isn't hard when RIOT can do some sort of data mapping and see who are in "Bad mood". 3 games is significant if they're played in same day at a stretch, because sitting and playing for 1-2hr straight will change how we play the game. I give more weightage to players who lose 3 games in a row, because they're sure to be tilted.
> Elaborate. How do you suggest this is done? Cuz if you try to balance out teams by WR or Stat averages then you have a really unfair MM. RNG can be brutal but it treats everybody equally. https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954 As per the article, matchmaking has 3 factors: 1. **Fair** matches - Each team is roughly the same skill 2. **Position** preference - You get to play a position you want to play 3. **Fast queue** times - The time spent queuing is as short as possible Because mmr is hidden we don't know how fair each games are and we're free to decide whether every game is fair or unfair. With other visible metrics like rank, win ratio, number of games played, position(main or autofill),...we can see that #1 and #2 are given less weightage and in general I say matching is inclined more towards faster queue times citing this. Unless RIOT decides to publish MMR so that we can check fairness in every game or they show how much weightage each factor is given, like 33.33% for each(in ideal case) we are safe to assume that current matching is unfair. Now, fair matching is really vague term, but going by the article we can assume they formulated some acceptable mmr range as fair range for a game-**on average, no more than 4-5 MMR**. Because we don't know MMR, we can only speculate it as very tight MMR range. If we're to go by visible metrics, we can formulate something like this: +/- 2 ranks, +/-10% of games played, win ratio. Other stats like level, kp, kda, dmg, vspm..... and autofill are what I suggest, but this is debatable and autofill is tricky to be included, because this will lead to entirely high queue times for certain players. For a supp main, autofill has literally no meaning because supp is least preferred. Having it yes/no has no difference, but for other roles, having yes/no has differences because of popularity of roles and in-turn affects the performance metrics, and in-turn the game itself. Autofill alone can determine whether a game is fair or unfair ,so I generally add it and for dodging I suggest these metrics because imo games with teammates with bad metrics are autolosses or atleast very difficult to win. Also, RIOT changing MM to consider fair matching equally will hit high elo players hard because population in high elo is low and a lot of modifications are needed.
Kai Guy (NA)
: > True. Problem is a fresh accounts which don't dodge placement games or don't get the games remade come into high gold mmr The starting MMR seems to be roughly around high silver and low gold. I Had it pegged at an average Tier of Silver 2 but it seems to have changed. It looks like Riot redistributed the MMR range that Ranks cover, they did this prior in season 1 and 2 as well as the years they added new divisions. I am not a fan of smurfing. I realize that can come across as a double standard given I openly share information from an Alt account. I don't throw games to lower an account and I don't throw games to keep ranks lower. Anyhow Dodgeing and remaking games is not gonna lower MMR just Ranks. Match averages stay the same, Which is why that alt account I listed had really massive LP slant. for a bit i was seeing 30 ish LP a win and about 10 for a loss. Skipped 2 divisions first skip. Then skipped 1 and 1. Players who rely on scouting and Dodgeing to climb will run into a wall pretty quickly if they don't have the skillset to match game average. In practice what will happen is they rely more and more on teammates so games feel more and more outside of their control. Need 2 folks to play better then the enemy turns into them eventually needing all 4 folks to play better. > main problem with LoL is many of the games are decided at matching itself as it is inclined more towards giving games faster; other games do have some games like this and some games like HotS bring in compensation like the PRA(performance metrics). And yet [All you find is complaints about MM in Hots](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/c/competitive-discussion) Hell many of the threads can be copy and pasted to sound like the same MM complaints in Leauge. > "I come back, first game (obviously an enforced loss, no way you can win the first match.)…full of Toxic Douchebags. " > Another example of players who need to be banned. When you die 5 times in 7 minutes cause all you know how to do is dive 1v2 or more, you do not belong in ranked. [Can the ranked system please be fixed?](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/t/can-the-ranked-system-please-be-fixed/29862/9) [This Ranked System is attrocious](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/t/this-ranked-system-is-attrocious/29000) There are trade offs that get made to run a non-stop que that's a team game at its core. Having lived thru honor system Matchmaking in Wc3 custom games for Dota, I will say that MMR/Team modified Elo systems are vastly superior options for match quality. You never get away from the fact that PvP games are driven by players. People don't give a shit about team comps? MM cant fix that issue as it happens after lobby is made. Some one gives up if they lose lane? MM cant fix that, after lobby. Hence behavior systems are the best way to up match quality. That said there is only so much hand holding Devs can do. Like, an example is in game hints and the Tutorial setting an expectation that players know what a balanced team comp is vs The MM solution of Forceing champion picks for balanced team comps. OW has a comp helper "to many dps. No healer" but would that be beneficial for league or would players completely ignore it to play what they want like many do in OW. Personally, I feel that Its not a mystery that a good comp matters but the attitude is "That's my teamamtes job because im gonna lock my main as that's what i am best at!" Yes.... The {{champion:11}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:236}} comp really needed {{champion:55}} . Better snowball yall cuz the {{champion:37}} R is your only response to locking a Feed champion down. > In-fact, RIOT actually knows this and uses this for games after a streak and in promos-after a winning streak we will get such players on our team, after a losing streak we get them on opponents team and in promos they're usually on our team. If we play the promos multiple times, the chances of getting them in opponent team increases. If Riot wanted to make the game grindy. They could half their MMR gains? If they wanted to manipulate their ladder and be unethical about manipulating population. They could Slant their MMR gains. That's also un-needed as they can just change what MMR range a rank represents any time they wish as that slants LP gains. All of the above is something they can do so tell me why they need to try and manipulate matches? when they can easily change their rating values and generation to impact 100% of the ladder. Riot controls the Riot API so if there is information they don't want to share the just don't give it to folks right? You and I both feel Que priority on speed is to high, but your also saying you think it takes time to look to control results, so its shifting thru the RNG players to find a way to manipulate a game prior to lobby but you also admit that player behavior is unreliable. Random tilt, Random AFK. So even if there's an Ideal player to fix matches ya cant 100% count on it to work. Which brings me to this, are players tilting and costing games so common they can be easily found? If MM is to fast then there would need to be a surplus of players like this to "rig" games or it would have to search longer to find a ringer? Yet if they are that common then wouldent they be in games anyhow regardless? Look at the distribution if only 10% of the playerbase is toxic,tilted, or some kind of negative teammate? That's a lot of games impacted as 10% = 1 in 10 people. So your seeing them in almost every game as there's 10 folks per match. Also I hate when folks start counting at 3 games for a streak like its significant. It is Super common even at 50% odds and only is more common at un-even odds. > Tldr: unless RIOT makes changes to MM to consider fair matching equally Elaborate. How do you suggest this is done? Cuz if you try to balance out teams by WR or Stat averages then you have a really unfair MM. RNG can be brutal but it treats everybody equally.
> The starting MMR seems to be roughly around high silver and low gold. I Had it pegged at an average Tier of Silver 2 but it seems to have changed. It looks like Riot redistributed the MMR range that Ranks cover, they did this prior in season 1 and 2 as well as the years they added new divisions. I don't have enough data, but what I see from my main, smurf and my friends' accounts is that, starting tier is around average rank of the server, may vary from Gold 4 to Silver 2. > Players who rely on scouting and Dodgeing to climb will run into a wall pretty quickly if they don't have the skillset to match game average. In practice what will happen is they rely more and more on teammates so games feel more and more outside of their control. Need 2 folks to play better then the enemy turns into them eventually needing all 4 folks to play better. My personal opinion is that we should spam normals and flex queue games, because chances of improving are great in that, despite players complaining about how matching is even more unfair there. I played flex queue first and I was put up against plat and gold players mostly, diamond players and silver players rarely(based on solo queue ranks) which is why I learnt the game faster. I agree that playing against higher ranked players is unfair, not fun-but we will learn ton of things by experience, which actually increases our skill ceiling. This can be utilized to over come the drawback of inflating our mmr with dodging in solo queue. However improving from normal/flex is really hard because players having "its just normal or flex" mentality to perform bad is very high. > And yet All you find is complaints about MM in Hots Hell many of the threads can be copy and pasted to sound like the same MM complaints in Leauge. > Can the ranked system please be fixed? > > This Ranked System is attrocious > > There are trade offs that get made to run a non-stop que that's a team game at its core. Having lived thru honor system Matchmaking in Wc3 custom games for Dota, I will say that MMR/Team modified Elo systems are vastly superior options for match quality. You never get away from the fact that PvP games are driven by players. People don't give a shit about team comps? MM cant fix that issue as it happens after lobby is made. Some one gives up if they lose lane? MM cant fix that, after lobby. > > Hence behavior systems are the best way to up match quality. That said there is only so much hand holding Devs can do. Like, an example is in game hints and the Tutorial setting an expectation that players know what a balanced team comp is vs The MM solution of Forceing champion picks for balanced team comps. OW has a comp helper "to many dps. No healer" but would that be beneficial for league or would players completely ignore it to play what they want like many do in OW. Yes. PRA is brought to compensate it, but it can't completely balance out bad mm. Having it is better because it reduces some damage and it is exactly like you say; we can get MVP in 10 games straight and lose all 10 games because our teammates wanted to play different game. This can be included as deterministic rng factor while making games, which will improve the matching overall. Truly random rng can never be estimated or calculated, but can be controlled how much impact it has on games. Iirc you've given some suggestion like having a "pre-game lobby" in past and though it won't fix problems, it will help in avoiding some problems. Same way, MM can't fix all problems and should always be aimed at avoiding problems. > If Riot wanted to make the game grindy. They could half their MMR gains? If they wanted to manipulate their ladder and be unethical about manipulating population. They could Slant their MMR gains. That's also un-needed as they can just change what MMR range a rank represents any time they wish as that slants LP gains. > > All of the above is something they can do so tell me why they need to try and manipulate matches? when they can easily change their rating values and generation to impact 100% of the ladder. Riot controls the Riot API so if there is information they don't want to share the just don't give it to folks right? Though mmr is hidden, we can roughly grasp what and how the mmr system works. Things like manipulation mmr directly can be found out easily than the manipulation of it indirectly, because with halved mmr gain games will be more grindy. We can simply play two accounts- 1) one without any dodging, play all games and 2) other with dodging, avoid games which are having bad teammates. if #2 account hits X rank, even 10% games less than #1 it simply means that RIOT forces us to grind games. #2 requires API to be real data and not manipulated one and if by any chance RIOT modifies API it can be found out too. This can be tested and easily proved by any player, so we can't say that RIOT doesn't want to make game grindy. > You and I both feel Que priority on speed is to high, but your also saying you think it takes time to look to control results, so its shifting thru the RNG players to find a way to manipulate a game prior to lobby but you also admit that player behavior is unreliable. Random tilt, Random AFK. So even if there's an Ideal player to fix matches ya cant 100% count on it to work. Low queue time is naturally unfair matching in most of the times, because the mmr range of players are allowed to be far apart. After streaks (win/loss) and in promos it is not hard to add few conditions to make teams to work in certain way; for example a player who got reported for inting in 3 games and having kda like 2/20/2, 1/15/5, 3/16/1 is not **random** bad player or **random tilt** appearing in player. What can be deterministic due to data is used in it and it is not the true random rng; in an external site like porofessor, this deterministic data is used for tags like "bad mood"- this player performs badly after losing in 3 games (for example) which can quantify some portion of the random tilt, because they've been doing it over time. Next time we play ranked, let us log the data-especially the porofessor team screens to see how RIOT actually does this. > Which brings me to this, are players tilting and costing games so common they can be easily found? If MM is to fast then there would need to be a surplus of players like this to "rig" games or it would have to search longer to find a ringer? Yet if they are that common then wouldent they be in games anyhow regardless? > > Look at the distribution if only 10% of the playerbase is toxic,tilted, or some kind of negative teammate? That's a lot of games impacted as 10% = 1 in 10 people. So your seeing them in almost every game as there's 10 folks per match. > > Also I hate when folks start counting at 3 games for a streak like its significant. It is Super common even at 50% odds and only is more common at un-even odds. Ok, let us assume 4 tags(which porofessor uses): **Hot streak**: Player wins X games in a row, X=3,4,5,6... **Good mood**: player performs well after winning X games. **Cold streak**: player loses X games in a row, X=3,4,5,6.... **Bad mood**: player performs worse after losing X games. It is not hard to find Good mood and bad mood, because it is already implemented by sites like porofessor. Over time, we can see that as X increases, our teammates will have X of opposite value. That is why after a win streak we get someone who will feed more to make us lose game or after a lose streak we get someone who can carry us despite us feeding or someone in opponent team will feed more than us. "Rigging" isn't hard when RIOT can do some sort of data mapping and see who are in "Bad mood". 3 games is significant if they're played in same day at a stretch, because sitting and playing for 1-2hr straight will change how we play the game. I give more weightage to players who lose 3 games in a row, because they're sure to be tilted.
: Game ruined. Toxic vs Trolling
RIOT matching is intended to force us to play more games to climb. Players who int, troll and afk makes us lose more games in turn forcing us to play more games to climb. Why would RIOT punish their salary free helpers{{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
: Thank you for putting first time ranked accounts in g1 games
**Always** check teammates profiles during champ select and dodge such games.
Kai Guy (NA)
: > Imo every game has some impact on MMR Yes that's the theory. AH....I can see the confusion from how I worded it That's my bad. Sorry, Its that Promo or Demotion protection don't impact how MMR gains and losses function. The comments about them " screws up mmr " are the issue I had. They screw up Ranks but wouldent impact the generation of MMR on an account. I made an Alt account last season to prove some points. I took the effort to make as big of a MMR to rank gap as I could. https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=notnotkaiguy I used /remake To fail some Placement games to generate a lower Starting Raiting then normal and dodged Lobbys in Promos to Fail the Series. Both which did not impact the Match average rank on the account. End result was I had a B1 account in high Silver MMR and ended up skiping every promo series in-between B1 and S1 as I got the account into Gold MMR match averages. System plays catch up. LP slant got pretty dramatic as well with 30 ish LP on wins and 10 ish on losses. > The luck or rng factor Its a non stop que or constantly changing players. That's gonna make quality issues in addition to how High uncertainty games are gonna be lower quality. RNG player behavior are not controllable. What happens if team A has a good team comp synergy on their mains and Team B has a shit team comp and bad matchups on top of that? Even if you attempted to take champion picks into account there's no control for Bans or some one picking a different champion. The # of variables caused by human decisions is far to high to accurately account for Prior to a lobby being made. You can find identical themed threads complaining about MM in Team games which is something I did [recently](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/scsHJ9Kh-is-there-any-specific-reason-as-to-why-we-arent-shown-our-mmr?comment=000100010000). Riot can improve. I also feel their Time to build a game is a bit to fast as well. I would LOVE more numbers or Details on the system. But... what people expect or want from MM is never gonna happen. Mobas are snowball, mismatches and some garbage games are part of it. My bias on the topic is a lot of low quality games become more common from player behavior issues then MM issues. The more folks who give up the more games you see go sidewise cuz some one rolled over mentally. > performance metric The more control over this metric you have the less value. Its way less effort to Pad stats then play to win. Ability's on CD are not a threat but you generate more stats from more usage. The overlap between Good stats and bad stats generates a lot of noise that can only be separated if you look at it on a Game to game Bais. Is there a better measurement of skill in games of skill then winning? Does the QB who has the best Stats get to say they won the super bowl even if their team lost? I don't mind performance adjustments, but in MMR systems I have seen how they work by impacting # of points and its still W or L that causes directional change. I just don't see this community being worth trusting with the ability to pad their rating at the cost of teammates to protect their points as I already have folks who will Pad their KDA and misplay just to keep their KDA high. > it keeps putting players in tiers irrespective of how they perform in game or their win ratio The starting point is the same for all accounts. Performance in game impacts match results or no one would care if they got bad teammates. WR is a misleading stat if your not looking at context of # of games. Partly because the weight of each game changes. 10% of their WR can be made by 1 game for player A with a total of 10 matches played. Its 100 games for player B with 1k. As WR is expressed as 2 didgets, the values are rounded. A lot of folks whining about MM ironically ask for worse things example. Making matches with teams evened to 50% IS bad MM, cuz your punishing a high WR player with low WR teammates. End of the day. Its not that I think Riots MM is the best, I am not a fan of Duoing implementation. Its that improvements to just MM with out addressing some of the things that make for frequent shitty games dont get solved by just "better MM" I'd like to see them working on player behavior for ranked as that looks like the best way to improve Match quality. Less folks who give up. Less smurfs (The ones who want to hover in a lower range or get to a sub starting MMR range by definition have to throw games to do so.) Less toxic accounts. The MM changes I want to see are tighter Ranges (my issue w duo being a huge segment of the curve being between allowed premades) and protections in place to keep established players away from being in back to back high uncertainty games. Why I get vocal on the MM topic. "forced 50%" "rigged MM" Are bullshit excuses just like Elo hell is. They also generate the same toxic behaviors that Elo hell used to. Like the change is It goes from a player screaming at a teammate "OMG YOUR SHIT AND WHY IM STUCK IN THIS HELL GET ME OUUUUUT" To the MM is guilty attitude of "OMG YOUR SHIT AND WHY IM STUCK IN THIS HELL AND ITS RITOS FAULT YOUR ON MY TEAM" Meanwhile Law of large numbers works and systems built around it are gonna function. Again, sorry for the confusion about MMR and Promos. I did not phrase that well. Its not that your MMR wont change but that Promo and Demotion protection would not impact the way MMR changes unless your takeing extra steps specifically to make it that way.
Ah! Thought it would be like this, but just wanted to be sure I wrote that regarding mmr :) > I made an Alt account last season to prove some points. I took the effort to make as big of a MMR to rank gap as I could. https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=notnotkaiguy I used /remake To fail some Placement games to generate a lower Starting Raiting then normal and dodged Lobbys in Promos to Fail the Series. Both which did not impact the Match average rank on the account. End result was I had a B1 account in high Silver MMR and ended up skiping every promo series in-between B1 and S1 as I got the account into Gold MMR match averages. > > System plays catch up. LP slant got pretty dramatic as well with 30 ish LP on wins and 10 ish on losses. True. Problem is a fresh accounts which don't dodge placement games or don't get the games remade come into high gold mmr, because the losses are supposed to reduce their mmr from the average tier-low gold/high silver. It is actually good idea to dodge some placement games(which has bad teammates) to preserve mmr xD > Its a non stop que or constantly changing players. That's gonna make quality issues in addition to how High uncertainty games are gonna be lower quality. RNG player behavior are not controllable. What happens if team A has a good team comp synergy on their mains and Team B has a shit team comp and bad matchups on top of that? > Even if you attempted to take champion picks into account there's no control for Bans or some one picking a different champion. > > The # of variables caused by human decisions is far to high to accurately account for Prior to a lobby being made. You can find identical themed threads complaining about MM in Team games which is something I did recently. Every game has their issues and main problem with LoL is many of the games are decided at matching itself as it is inclined more towards giving games faster; other games do have some games like this and some games like HotS bring in compensation like the PRA(performance metrics). In game player behavior is uncontrollable, but avoidable-because this RNG is of 2 factors: 1) Random RNG which is truly random and can't be determined from data; this is things like players suddenly tilting and running it down because their jg didn't gank when they asked for a gank or players suddenly playing as a team because they're from same country, 2) Deterministic behavior-it isn't hard to see this. A player who is going like 0/5/0 in 5-10 mins in 3 games played consecutively has very high chance of performing bad in the 4th game. In-fact, RIOT actually knows this and uses this for games after a streak and in promos-after a winning streak we will get such players on our team, after a losing streak we get them on opponents team and in promos they're usually on our team. If we play the promos multiple times, the chances of getting them in opponent team increases. > My bias on the topic is a lot of low quality games become more common from player behavior issues then MM issues. The more folks who give up the more games you see go sidewise cuz some one rolled over mentally. True. This can be compensated with some modifications- like punishment for afk, troll and inting players so that players will atleast reduce this a bit; some metrics can be added to MM to improvise the overall system-like use the deterministic behavior to make games fairer. Stop giving most of the weightage to faster queue time and start giving some to fairer game matching by increasing the queue time little bit. > I don't mind performance adjustments, but in MMR systems I have seen how they work by impacting # of points and its still W or L that causes directional change. I just don't see this community being worth trusting with the ability to pad their rating at the cost of teammates to protect their points as I already have folks who will Pad their KDA and misplay just to keep their KDA high. Indeed, that's why it is better to add it to MM rather than MMR. I suggest players to dodge based on performance metrics and with sites like porofessor, facecheck tracking performance to use tags like "bad mood, cold streak, ignore drakes,vulnerable laner,..." it is easy to see the difference of matching and to judge which games have high probability of losing. > The starting point is the same for all accounts. Performance in game impacts match results or no one would care if they got bad teammates. WR is a misleading stat if your not looking at context of # of games. Partly because the weight of each game changes. > > 10% of their WR can be made by 1 game for player A with a total of 10 matches played. Its 100 games for player B with 1k. As WR is expressed as 2 didgets, the values are rounded. > > A lot of folks whining about MM ironically ask for worse things example. Making matches with teams evened to 50% IS bad MM, cuz your punishing a high WR player with low WR teammates. Agreed. Win rate is one of the metrics to be taken and not the only stat to be concerned with. > I'd like to see them working on player behavior for ranked as that looks like the best way to improve Match quality. Less folks who give up. Less smurfs (The ones who want to hover in a lower range or get to a sub starting MMR range by definition have to throw games to do so.) Less toxic accounts. ^ This is because RIOT doesn't punish afk players, punishes trolls very rarely and punishes inters rarely. Players want to solo carry every game and don't care about team when they decide the game is lost. > Why I get vocal on the MM topic. "forced 50%" "rigged MM" Are bullshit excuses just like Elo hell is. They also generate the same toxic behaviors that Elo hell used to. Like the change is It goes from a player screaming at a teammate "OMG YOUR SHIT AND WHY IM STUCK IN THIS HELL GET ME OUUUUUT" To the MM is guilty attitude of "OMG YOUR SHIT AND WHY IM STUCK IN THIS HELL AND ITS RITOS FAULT YOUR ON MY TEAM" Well if every game was fair game and 50% win rate was achieved through playing games, players won't be concerned about it mostly. Everyone knows they're not super good, but everyone gets these games where they play good and the team simply throws it; ofcourse there will be games where players play super bad and team carries them, but we remember games that we perform well and lose more. Regarding elo hell, it simply can't be helped because players are ready to buy accounts or boost accounts to get those shiny ranks to brag about it and it somehow infests everyone mentally. Tldr: unless RIOT makes changes to MM to consider fair matching equally, this kind of games will happen a lot and dodging is the only solution we've :)
: When you pick aphelios in rank
**When you pick {{champion:523}} in ranked and take Omnistone xD**
Kai Guy (NA)
: It has Zero impact on MMR just like Promos make no impact on MMR. They just have an impact on visible rank, the only thing related to MM is what Duo restrictions are allowed, otherwise its a non issue for MM cuz the titles given have no meaning if they don't correctly represent the MMR range your at. That's solved over time with how LP slant is reactive to MMR. High uncertainty accounts = low # total games. Comparing them to the average IS the fastest way to place them correctly with a high K variable. That's why You can see folks get over and under placed early on due to luck. LLN will kick in and balance it out. 8 games is not of any statistical significance when you consider possible variables. I don't consider any one with under 100 to ever have an accurate Rank to skill level with any degree of certainty. Its a skill curve, not a 0 to 100 style ladder. They work faster and thus are used for 24/7 style ques where your skill mismatches are terrible for game quality.
Imo every game has some impact on MMR and while mmr is hidden we can only assume this based on the changes in matching at placement games, 100LP and 0LP based on win/dodge/lose. The **luck or rng** factor is simply bad matching because, it keeps putting players in tiers irrespective of how they perform in game or their win ratio. MMR uncertainty can be reduced if matching is aimed at giving fair games or include some sort of performance metric instead of blindly matching for reduced queue time, especially for new accounts because the luck factor actually screws up not just their mmr estimation, but their teammates and opponents too. It is indeed a skill curve ladder, but because it is based on blind search it sacrifices games' quality forcing players to play more games; if it was based on some optimal search or atleast include PRA(Performance based Rank Adjustments) it will be even faster.
Kai Guy (NA)
: Yet plenty of low plat players can have a MMR of gold 2. Demotion protections huge to protect fragile egos.
True, demotion shields screws up mmr which is why it should be removed-this would also make the promotion games which screws up mmr even more to be removed. Funny thing is that a fresh account starting with Silver1-2 mmr having Gold 2 MMR after a 3W-10L record, screws up mmr of everyone way more than demotion shield or promo games do and other than dodging the game there is no way to escape from this.
: Why is matchmaking so broken? Someone explain how this happens
It is simply the problem of Matchmaking inclined mostly or only towards giving games faster and not at all caring about giving fair games. A fresh account with 3W-10L record will never have MMR near low plat and don't buy the consolation comment of "MMR is same" because it is very illogical even for an assumption. Funny thing is you (plat 4) can't duo with that player (silver 2), but matchmaking can f**king give a game like this and if matching is so fair, why not just show the mmr to prove it? Always see your teammates' profiles in champ select and just dodge games like this because that is the only solution to escape from the bad matchmaking. Don't get frustrated and gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: TIP: To Everyone using IMGUR to post images in The Boards
Nice. Also remove player names while posting such images.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: supports
No. All supports are still viable, but needs to be played different and late game these two are better because both can build{{item:3179}} and has passive to make up for reduced gold generation.
GigglesO (NA)
: Minion change just happened on support items?
No. One can farm upto 80cs without penalty in 20mins and I suggest all supports to farm at 2-3cs/min {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
Kalienor (EUW)
: > to stop other roles from abusing it Actually, unlike Tier 1 and 2, this time it's to prevent Supports from abusing it. When a player collects stacked waves in late, it bounces back. There is a safe collecting area on each side, players shouldn't go alone further than T1's ruins if they only intend to farm so people aware of that let the waves slowpush to them as much as possible to collect everything in one go in a safe position. If you take a wave attacking a tower (or about to and nobody's coming), that's ok, they forgot to defend and you replace them. The countermeasure on support items will still allow you to get full gold from that. If you just take waves out of that situation, not only you deprive someone of the wave, but you also prevent him to farm any subsequent wave until it goes aaaaaaaall the way to the other side and bounces aaaaaaaaall the way back to your tower. I've seen a lot of Supports do that during this season, more than during any other, and that puts their mates behind for no real reason. That's something you can't see if you don't think it through, but it's harming the team a lot and I'm glad they chose to tune it down, that's discouraging it without having players to fully understand it.
Weak early game with Tier 1 and 2 with removal of stats means they need some sort of compensation atleast at Tier 3. It is situational but majority of players who are not in top 2% of ladder let huge waves to die to tower. If non-supp player is going to collect it because of this change, it is totally good-but discouraging support for doing a good thing is bad, because the name "Anti-poaching" itself is subtle bullying.
Dave128 (NA)
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHlqw-5w2uQ Yes I could have declined to farm those waves but the first would have crashed into the tower and the second needed to be cleared to set up teamfight in river. I was in a position earlier in the game where I needed to CS under tower due to my lane partner (yasuo) not being in lane much. I don't think anti-poaching is the correct solution because this feels **super** bad when it happens. Meta enforcement sucks. The idea that a support should NEVER cs sucks. Sometimes you have to and you should not be punished for doing so. EDIT: I'm also not sure the math works out. Patch notes state 20 CS per 5 mins. If its not some silly function of 5 minute increments you are allowed 4 CS per min. I was at 44 CS at 17 min which is ~2.6 CS per min. Not to mention at least 10-15 of those were relic procs. Riot: 1. Relic procs should not count 2. Pls explain/fix the math here
Nice. And yes, idk why Relic procs count and it needs to be fixed. 4cs/min is not bad, but in late game like you have shown there are times where before or after a fight there will be huge waves crashing onto tower or pushing for it. p.s: {{champion:516}} maybe a very good supp because of his engages and not needing to base other than buying {{item:2055}} . He can technically collect farm that adc is going to miss while forging items.
: i'm fine with it, got pretty sick of supports roaming to my lane to farm it.
They can still do it if they're doing it under limits (20cs/5min). Problem in it also removes the option of clearing it in many useful situations without penalty.
Ventira (NA)
: What supports can farm 3 waves of minions effectively?
Most of the mage supports can insta clear waves while few champs like {{champion:111}} {{champion:235}} {{champion:555}} can clear 20cs in 5 min easily.
: At 20 minutes a support with less than 80 CS gets full gold. If you have more than 80 CS as a support at 20 minutes then you're doing something wrong.
It is not about 80cs in 20min, but more than 20cs in 5 min. I can get to mid game with 5-10 cs in 15 mins but if there is a huge wave and no one is collecting, if I take 20+cs in 5 mins as supp it gets penalised. There are lot of cases where this can happen and how is it wrong?
: Nothing like beng punished for csing because my adc has to recall!
No. If ADC is recalling and coming back to lane, it isn't an issue because it is roughly 2 waves which can be taken without penalty. Problem is during late game where there is a huge wave crashing on a side lane or into base. Few supports can take it, but with penalty if the count goes over 20cs/5min.
5050BS (NA)
: Late game no one should be not talking waves if needed. Support should be able to go and clear a wave and get full Gold from it.
^ Yes. Especially when it is a good thing to have in many situations.
Ymir1906 (NA)
: F in the chat for the support role.
Agreed. As a mage support player, I get that the removal of mana regen was supposed to be an indirect nerf to mage supports to remove them from supports while not being suited for mid lane-but ultimately it hurts few enchanters too. But the bad gold income, especially on Tier 3 support items, is unhealthy for all supports except a few like {{champion:555}} with his passive gold generation through R and {{champion:235}} with her passive scaling it is hard to be relevant in mid-late game. Support can't even be ward bot because with lethality, drakes becoming more important, alcoves and third bush in lane- I expect jg to camp bot lane and mid laners to roam to bot often in early game and in mid-late game they're simply behind in level with reduced gold than previous patch and have high chances of insta-deleted if caught alone.
: Where's my support item as a melee tank support?
Agreed and they shouldn't have removed heal from relic shield items; it is better to keep a reduced heal(like they did for execute range) or just remove it for ranged champions-because keeping it for ranged champs means it is just shoving in {{champion:235}} more than they did with new items for her. Let us hope they change it soon.
Rioter Comments
: It's like jungle and ADC mains only queue up to get carried.
** ADCs right click simulator** Atleast in low elo, they don't even right click. They just auto attack and spend half of the time in harassing support. **I tried playing on the SEA server as well as EuW, and had to stop before a potential ban because playing top/mid feels punishing** Playing Supp is far worse than those two roles and playing on SEA is the worst. Gold 3 on Garena Singapore is actually Silver 3 on EUW and what's worse is that there is no punishments; you can flame full game and you will not be banned. Playing duo is the only way to minimize the tilt and I highly recommend you to uninstall SEA because other than ping, everything is just too bad: queue times are long, no moderation, skins are costly and updates take too long. I won't be surprised if they've started to mine bitcoins using players' pc.
: remove promos
+1 Also remove demotion shields along with this.
atorelle (NA)
: "Shut up he's carrying you lol"
Idk which game you're commenting about, but if a mage supp starts {{item:1056}} it is one of the indications that they're either bad or don't have any knowledge of supp. If you'd said them to go {{item:3303}} first and they started with doran's, it is intentional. Though taking cs isn't against rule, not taking support item is kind of giving advantage to opponents in vision game; as a supp I punish opponents hard for not having enough vision by warding their jg and setting up ambushes. Now, as an adc you did great by keeping cool because I have seen adc players troll/int/afk even if I had taken like 5 cs in 10 mins and not even disturbing their farming; however, as soon as you see your supp start with non supp item just freeze the wave near turret-only last hit opponent minions and let them push. I don't know the matchup, but freezing in bot lane is always effective and unless the {{champion:161}} times spells correctly they cant take minions. Idk what champ you played too, but as an aa champ you can farm more than ability users; am not justifying their actions, but they've cooldowns and constraint on mana-but you don't. Lastly it is not advisable to write report player X, because that itself is reportable(strange right xD). I remember I had troll/feeding/afk adc players because I picked mage supports, even in my promo games to Gold 4. It is all about grinding games and don't get frustrated because you will be seeing such supports and also mute chat, to save your mental state. Gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Mc Raton (NA)
: Honestly, players only coming online because of Urf kinda depress me
Ultra Rapid Fun{{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
: With the changes to lane experience coming for Season 10...
We will see bot lane feeding even more because they're going to be behind in levels more than they're now.
macspam (NA)
: Why is further reducing jungle XP a good thing?
Because things like Level 3 {{champion:35}} ganking bot lane when bot duo are Level 1 happens.
K1mster (NA)
: Yah lmao, this match just ended with a defeat on my team like in a matter of seconds. I'm just wondering cause I've had games with like both teams having golds in like plat 2 average games, but this is another level. Is there a certain reason riot allowed this kind of match up? I'm just trying to figure out how they matchmake.
> Is there a certain reason riot allowed this kind of match up? To reduce the queue times. Always check player profiles during champ select and just dodge such kind of matchings;I am not saying it will be always a loss, but probability of such games being losses are very high.
: My ADC unranked in Plat vs 400+ games PLat 4 ADC
They're duo with support, but still it is strange and is good example of why matchmaking is bad. Always check this in champ select and dodge such games.
GilxeN (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=maayonmaayan,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=iENiXLso,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-02T12:03:11.659+0000) > > Sadly players can int/troll/afk and get no punishment, while their team mates are punished for it. Don't get frustrated by it and just keep grinding. > gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} No idea why u are upvoted, doesnt make any slight sense.
> [{quoted}](name=GilxeN,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=iENiXLso,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-10-03T07:20:40.151+0000) > > No idea why u are upvoted, doesnt make any slight sense. Don't you know that players go afk/rage quit the game because there is no real punishment, especially like after first 1-2 deaths without even worrying about their team? No idea how you could've never come across such players who could go afk after moving once and can hold the team hostage for next 10-15 mins. If you don't even know this, it is really strange.
Tsuko (NA)
: Glad I had to sit in this game for 16 minutes for absolutely no reason.
Sadly players can int/troll/afk and get no punishment, while their team mates are punished for it. Don't get frustrated by it and just keep grinding. gl hf {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
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Uraraka

Level 126 (EUNE)
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