PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Early Snowball 8.13
Why are you not entertaining the question of what kind of snowball is preferable? Say towers get beefier and take forever to destroy. Sure. I start killing my enemy laner again and again and again and every time and they are worth less every time I kill them. But because the tower is still there, my snowball remains contained inside my lane and its up to my opponent to keep it contained in it. Time and again we've seen that no matter what lead you acquire in the laning phase, it isn't worth much if you can't translate that into a snowball that affects the entire map and eventually leads your team to victory. So in that case, is it better that I am able to take down the tower much faster right now, shove all the way to T2 tower and then have plenty of time to disrupt the enemy jungler, ward their jungle, provide my team with plenty of useful information without much risk, gank another lane and appear in a skirmish in the map way earlier than the enemy laner? And anyway, yeah sure. Laners can't really intervene because they might be busy in their lanes too. But isn't that what junglers are for? I feel that the reasoning behind not changing the towers is way too shallow. On the side note: Yes, beefier towers do make the game last longer. And there's a lot of people that have complained that games are too fast. There's also a lot of people that enjoy longer games. There's a lot of people that enjoy the late-game fantasy of their mains and they rarely ever get to that point. I don't think 40-45 minute games would be bad or tiring. And if there's too many situations where a game is decided 10-15 minutes earlier than when it actually ends, you've got plenty of levers to pull - Elder Dragon and Baron. Baron can be a raid boss and that could be fine, so long as the rewards it provides are meant for teams that are extremely ahead and want to close out a game or teams that make extremely smart calls.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Oh god no. Please don't react so fast to the meta. Please let it play out and see how players adapt to it. Its way too early to react to this massive shake-up. Even the pros aren't sure what is right now the "meta". Finally after so many many years we're getting to see a more open environment. Instead of completely killing the gold funneling strats, which have a lot of ways to be countered and can result in very interesting and interactive games (invading the jungle to deny the farmer the gold leading to multiple early skirmishes), why don't you nerf the support passive gold income? I mean, the idea is that you are having a player give up their gold for another to get really strong. But because of the way support champions, their income and their items are tuned, it results in the first player giving up too little. Its the support role's fundamentals that make the strategy unhealthy, not the strategy itself. Heck, the strategy will probably be solved and countered in a month's time and become a niche strat that we'll be seeing once in a blue moon.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 8
Hey Meddler. Any thoughts you might want to share on the "changes for the sake of changes" sentiment that some of the older players seem to share? Personally, I do think there's some things to take from it and I've felt this way at times too. What I don't enjoy is the buff-nerf-buff cycle that never seems to stop and constantly shuffles the "best" champions for each role, forcing players to constantly adapt to an ever-changing environment even if they are only ever playing a handful of champions. It also creates an expectancy from the players that if you can't beat a certain strategy then its momma Riot's job to nerf it and "oh my god why aren't they doing something about this?!" What I do enjoy is system changes. This kind of changes are exciting and interesting and never fail to keep the game fresh. Thinking of plants, new items, new runes - systemic changes. The big patch - small patch cycle seems to accomplish some of that. I'd certainly love to see only a few, well prepared, well thought-out, big patches in a year rather than an ever changing state. I'd love to see an environment that stays static for an extended period of time and allows for strategies to evolve and players to develop and practice niche picks and strategies to counter them. Mainly thinking of something along the lines of having 4 to 6 big patches: 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, 8.4 and then 8.1.x being occasional and not planned, smaller patches reacting to only the extreme outliers. It can create some very memorable patches and allow for all champions to have their time in the spotlight. Thoughts? :)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9
Supports have been a very special role since forever as a they are fundamentally very different from all other roles in the game. Over the years we've seen their gold income increased and the expectancy that they should be able to hit a 6-item build become the the norm. But why is that? Is it really a problem? Are 6-item builds what's really exciting about this game? I think not. I think what feels good is the moment you complete a powerful item. We usually call this a power spike, I think - you'll say to yourself "now I kick ass!". I think supports for the longest time lacked those exciting moments. With a mandatory GPM item, a mandatory vision item and some aura effects, the feeling of impact for a support was locked behind items with powerful, yet invisible effects. Nowadays this isn't really the case: you've got Aegis with shields, you've got Grail healing, Redemption's massive AoE heal and damage. Your GPM and vision items are merged into one and require a smaller gold investment so you're free to buy the fun stuff. And this is good. This is awesome. What I really want to get to is that supports are a very unique role in the game. Their items can provide stats or effects that solo laners usually don't like and their active or passive effects can be really powerful for that reason. And even if its dangerous or unhealthy to have 4 or 5 of those effects combined, their lower income can be used as a gate to these situations. If you are going to look into support itemisation, maybe a good question would be "What if supports only got 2 very very powerful items during the average game? How would those items look? How would it affect their power curve throughout the game?" I find that place a very interesting situation to be in. Maybe less exciting for some players, but certain a unique situation. Its what differentiates supports from other roles by a large margin. Thoughts?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 25
Month in, month out, I haven't seen much talk about certain topics. I'm coming from an older age of the game and I really would appreciate your thoughts on these: 1. Tanks vs bruisers: Thinking mainly of Seasons 3 and 4, when top lane was that long, isolated island where bruisers would trade for ages and tanks would be the niche picks that you had to get out of the laning phase first to make them work. Why is that the various game states after those seasons have favored tanks much more than bruisers as the "default" for top lane? Do you guys see tanks as the healthier class to be the "default" option? Is there any work you are planning towards supporting bruisers better? Frankly, I don't believe there's a lot of people that get excited to play tanks over bruisers, in general. 2. Solo carrying: Again, coming from an older age. Teamwork is obviously part of the game as it is a 5 vs 5 game mainly. But it feels like solo carrying (1v9 as some would say) has been slowly phased out of the game by a large margin. Which is weird, since climbing the solo queue ladder pretty much promotes that kind of mentality. 3. Game pacing and the laning phase: I've got mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I enjoy the fast-paced experience that modern League provides. On the other hand, I wish there would be more emphasis on the laning phase, with it lasting longer and being more about the player vs player match-ups - being more about your duo bot vs the enemy duo bot rather than who got camped harder or which team's ganks were successful. I guess what I mean to say is, maybe there should be more chances for a comeback or for individual skill to shine. Writing this got me thinking: How would the game state change if you reduced the gold available in the game? Say, half all the gold in game during any given moment?
: I recently talked about them with their original designer, Wrekz, and he had some thoughts as to how to get them to a more enjoyable experience. On his list of suggestions, he suggested stuff like (straight from the proposal he sent me): * Generally making marks a bit easier to acquire, but a bit less powerful per mark. * Marks being able to spawn in either jungle, rather than only the opponents'. * Reducing mark warm-up time on enemy champions to try and get a cleaner balance between champion and jungle marks. * Removing W -> Q interaction and just having Q's cooldown reduced when it hits a champion or monster. * Increasing W radius to let Wolf feel more useful instead of it being primarily a mobility enabler. * Or some other effect to accomplish the same goal of making Wolf feel more useful. * Possibly just base 550 range instead of the increasing range with marks. * If the above are a too powerful, probably some base stat or damage nerfs here and there. I'm mostly open to stuff like this being tested, though there's a lot going on here, so it could take some time to validate. If we felt more confident there was a specific kind of work that would be exciting to Kindred players as well as a pretty clear path forward, that would increase the likelihood we would take on the work. We get a lot of requests to do these champ readjustments, so frequently it's a matter of when there's resources to do it more-so than a desire to test something out. I (and others on the design teams) do tend to love these types of explorations, however, so when we do have that clearer goal to go chase, it's usually possible to get someone on board with going for it.
I love the idea of W(olf) having a much wider range. But I think the presence of Wolf is also underwhelming on the VFX side. Maybe you can make the E attack much more scary? Like a ghost wolf is about to devour to devour you maybe? In general, I feel he should look bigger and much more threating, not just play a bigger role in Kindred's threat.
: Ryze work on PBE
> Spell Flux (E) Cooldown :: 3.25/3.00/2.75/2.50/2.25 >>> 3.5/3.0/2.5/2.0/1.5 Ability Power Ratio :: 30% >>> 40% Bonus Mana Ratio :: 2% >>> 1% REMOVED :: Overload Damage Bonus (replaced by Q true damage mechanic) W Bonus :: Increased Root Duration >>> Roots instead of slowing Spread Damage :: 50% >>> 100% I'm having a hard time seeing how this is going to bring Ryze in line. Doubling the spread damage on top of giving it a very slightly higher cooldown just for rank 1 means he will be getting some waveclear out of it. If he's supposed to be a late-game champion that means he's supposed to have a rough early game. His shield looks like is going to be powerful around levels 3-8. On top of that, he's getting true damage? Isn't that a bit too much? Didn't he benefit quite a lot from the mage item changes already?
Meddler (NA)
: We'll be taking another look at manaflow band, what's currently in testing on the PBE is very unlikely to ship.
Ι haven't kept in touch with the game for a while, but I wanted to suggest this: What if Manaflow Band had a shorter cooldown? Meaning, its cooldown is low enough to push players for optimisations around it. Obviously the effect should been much weaker in this case, just strong enough to keep poke patterns in lane possible for some champions. I think it would still work much like Meditation, but because of the way the effect works, it would allow for skill expression and gameplay to come out of it, rather than a passive bonus MP5 effect.
: That's what I had meant by this quote " think this year was a pretty marked improvement, but there's still some issues that need to be ironed out. If a support is intended to multiply the adc, giving them more gold and powerful items means their adc will be that much stronger. " We saw some major wins for the support class as a whole this year, but there was also some drawbacks. One thing that we see a lot right now is the sentiment that a game is won or lost based entirely on how your bot lane performs. While not entirely true, there is something to be said about making the support role on your team function as a whole champion (gold income and items). When a support can have comparable power to the rest of their teammates, it means that 40% of your team strengths come from that lane. If your bot lane comes out ahead, the loss of a portion of the 40% of strength on the opposing team feels quite sharp. TL;DR - Yes there is a potential issue with supports just being able to turn on their adc earlier, but don't think we should suppress a class because of it. I think there's other much larger solves to the problem that need to be figured out in order to make it less of an issue. What if there was a game where you didn't need to take a support to round out a team comp every match? Or didn't need to take a marksman? What if 112J wasn't a thing? Those are huge opportunities, but also major major undertakings. I'm realizing now that this wasn't much of a tl;dr :P.
What do you think of support items getting amped up and in return being more expensive? My thought process here is that we can embrace the fact that supports are to receive significantly lower income than the rest of the roles - and we use that as a gate for when they unlock their "ADC multipliers". Currently, as I understand (I haven't played at all lately so its all coming from my past experience) supports acquire completed items just a bit slower than other roles, because their items cost much less. As a result, they provide less stats and have their focus on item effects such as %Heal/Shield Power. So, in my humble opinion, 112J not being a thing is a massive undertaking and it doesn't need to happen. Instead, support items should be reworked as a whole. Get all the support items to have HUGE incentives for supports to build them, rather than top lane or jungle tanks. Get them to a price point around 2.8-3.2k gold and they can be a power spike that comes in around 20 minutes and your team can play around. That way supports can actually have full builds on par with the rest of the roles in terms of stats too. Censer in 7.18 seems to be like that. Maybe its not the item being toxic, rather, its just that its effect should have been gated behind a higher price point and a lower income for the champion who builds it, so that the enemy team had more time to punish them for that strategy. TL;DR: Embrace the low income of supports, let them accept that they'll rarely get to a 6 item build. Give them powerful and costly items to build, big power spikes for their team to play around and interesting decisions to make between their various unique items.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 6
Ultimore discussion: Runes Reforged is a new system that takes the place of both runes and masteries. Since we are going to have so many drastical changes in the preseason, I, for one, would love to see CDR being less popularised. Over the years, CDR has been becoming more and more readily available and nowadays the game feels more and more like URF. Ultimore might not become an offender depending on where its placed and what you sacrifice from other trees to gain its benefits, of course. However, I believe it would be great for the sake of diversity and the game supporting more playstyles, that packing a huge punch in one single skillshot, over firing multiple over time, should be rewarded more. We've seen the CDR problem arise with assassins opting into The Black Cleaver for its CDR benefits and Mages for the most part, usually opt into more utility rather than raw damage, regardless of how much utility they might offer. CDR makes sense on most champions, mainly because of how the game has been tuned over the years. However, certain kits could certainly function if they provided incentives to stack some other stat over it. Or if the stat came with bigger tradeoffs. What if we had base spells powerful enough to be put on 20 sec cooldowns and their kits would still function very well, even at 0% CDR?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 1
I feel very excited for the changes to how you do your development cycles. The whole nerf-buff-nerf thing that has been going on for the last few years feels exhausting to older players, more often than not. Having to adapt to new standards every two weeks, or having patches go by without any substantial changes is a problem. I'd very much prefer a big patch every two months that actually delivers on changes - new items, mini-reworks, VGUs, well-calculated nerfs and buffs. Not to mention, leaving the dust to settle might allow for some breathing room in the meta game. We don't really get to see the meta progress and people come up with weird, strange or wild ideas to counter a certain strategy anymore. Most likely its gonna get nerfed in just two weeks time! So please, make some changes to your development cycles. With runes reforged, I believe you can make the game more diverse than ever. Oh and while you're at it, some more items to support various playstyles would be great! Just, please, don't mind the bronzies. We want active items because they feel strong and powerful! ...even if we forget to press them sometimes.
: We're hoping to do a pass on AP itemization sometime in the (hopefully near) future. If the issue with them is build diversity, some suggestions for new/modified items could be useful, if for no other reason than to get some ideas flowing. If those suggestions also included why they'd be good additions to the game, or what problem they address, that would also be very useful.
It would be great if you would nerf Morellonomicon. I believe that cooldown reduction right now is too vastly and readily available. On top of that, Morellonomicon provides so much of so many stats that most mage's builds are warped around it. And then again, Rabaddon's has been god awful to build for two seasons now. Mages are supposed to itemise for damage but Luden's hardly ever seems to be a core item. Currently mage builds seem to be much more focused around utility and safety rather than dealing damage. On top of that, assassins like Ekko and Fizz have been building Protobelt and Lichbane as their core items for a while now, which is not a bad thing by itself, since its not "yet another basic mage build", but might suggest that their kits don't provide enough by themselves for them to do what they are meant to do.
Meddler (NA)
: Bandit's going away. We're looking at whether to get that then missing gold back to core bandit users or whether to give them power in other regards instead.
Better rewards via their gold income item quests sounds like a more exciting thing to me. At least that will give supports a powerspike to play around and discourage rushing other items like Ardent Censer. At this point those items are probably the most core items supports have anyway.
Meddler (NA)
: We'll likely take another pass at Ardent Censer soon. We decided not to hit it very hard in 7.18 given the supports that use it are already less represented in pro play than tankier types and we didn't want to create a further loss of diversity there. That's a tough call, given we're therefore trading off viewer experience for pro and state of balance for regular games on 7.18. We'll usually lean much harder on what's needed for regular play, the Worlds patch and the patch or two before it are the time of the year though where pro balance gets weighted quite a bit heavier.
> We'll usually lean much harder on what's needed for regular play, the Worlds patch and the patch or two before it are the time of the year though where pro balance gets weighted quite a bit heavier. Can we have a longer post, or hopefully an open discussion about this? Sometimes, it feels like there's nerfs happening just to bring some champions in line for the lower elo brackets. I feel like this is unjustified and ultimately detrimental to League's long-term. Do we really need the game to be balanced around less-than-ideal players?
Meddler (NA)
: What's the thinking on why such an item's needed? If anything I'd be more concerned about MR itemization potentially being too powerful, or CDR too broadly found. Can see the desire to be able to buy it in game on some champs, but I'm missing a clear argument for why it'd be good for the item system overall.
> I'd be more concerned about MR itemization potentially being too powerful, or CDR too broadly found. CDR being too broadly found sounds like a very long talk. For so many years, mana has been a resource that only serves as a gate for the laning phase rather than a resource you have to manage and make each of your spellcasts count. I feel like this is bad for the game. Over time, more and more items have acquired CDR and nowadays it feels like the 40% CDR cap is almost a "must" for plenty of champions. I'd rather CDR be the exception rather than the rule. There's URF for spamming your keys on cooldown. Why can't we have powerful, costly spells with very long cooldowns? Wouldn't those spells be satisfying to use and create very clear high moments? EDIT: Not to mention, to me, Morellonomicon seems to be the worst offender of the CDR issue. The item just does everything. 100 AP, 20% CDR, 8 second long Grievous Wounds debuff that feels like an after-thought rather than something you make a decision around. On top of that, a smooth build path, a very low price point and even a mana refund on kills and assists.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 8
Hello Meddler. Can you give me your opinion on this? I believe that having tank junglers as a default option creates a much more healthier jungling pattern than what we've been used to. For years we've had tank junglers being trash, yet safe and effective in lower elo brackets. For higher tiers of play though, aggressive, carry junglers have been the go-to and mostly the "default" options. So, why is tank junglers being the default option a problem? With them being the go-to picks, carry junglers, with their opressive early game are presented with a trade-off - either dominate the game early enough, or get outshined in teamfights. I don't disagree that tanks might be just a bit out of line currently, but I'd love it if the decision came down to a playstyle preference, rather than the systems favouring one kind over the other.
: This is the only question that matters.
Give this man a cookie. I'm down for some easter egg portraits for the ugliest old splashes!
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 21
If anything, Cinderhulk could just go up in price. It's a bit wierd for it to be cheaper than the rest of the enchants. Would be great to have some buffs for champions who dropped too much after their nerfs, instead of nerfing the current overly present choices.
Reav3 (NA)
: The real answer is that we don't feel like we HAVE to get through every champion on the list. The list is constantly growing and evolving and with the size of our cast there will always be champions that need work. I mean it was only just recently that Fiddlesticks got into the Tier 1 list and we were just discussing Corki yesterday and he is getting pretty close to a Tier 1 candidate as well. If we did get through all the Tier 1's then the Tier 2 would just be new Tier 1's. What we do care about is what is the right cadence of champion content to deliver to players. Right now we feel like releasing champions every 2 weeks is way to much. We feel like having big content releases, be it a VGU, a new Champ or a big seasonal update feels right at a monthly cadence. Obviously we won't always hit that perfectly but having content drops roughly every month feels right to us, at least currently. We always re-evaluate this of course and there will always be reason we don't release every month (Xayah & Rakan being a duo champion caused us to skip a Feb release and the scope of Kayns 3 forms made him take a bit longer then usually as well, skipping June.) Worlds being another thing that we may delay releases during. With that being said we then look at what out players want. Currently their are many players that want new champs as well as VGUs. The players on these boards are usually super hard core players invested in the lore that have been playing LoL for a long time. We know that those are the players that generally are more excited about VGUs. The sentiment on these boards doesn't necessarily represent the sentiment of all our players. With both of those facts our strategy is more about what ratio of VGUs and New Champions we want to release that will add the most player value. Our goal isn't driven by getting through our Tier 1 list as fast as possible. So looking at what our players want we feel moving to more of a 50/50 cadence of VGUs and New Champs makes the most sense right now. We will continue to evaluate this ratio though and adjust accordingly over time.
Hello. I want to voice my personal opinion here. I think its funny to still talk about 50/50 between releases and VGUs. New releases generally follow League's modern standards or even push them further beyond. Given preseason is a huge chance for the company to rethink and reinvent the content that generates revenue, I strongly believe a 70/30 or 80/20 split favoring VGUs would be the best fit for the game's long term health. In my eyes, more releases mean more of the older champions get left behind. And I just wish we had a year full on updates. It really feels great seeing champions that we usually look back at with bitterness and nostalgia, coming back better, more viable, more powerful and delivering on their promised fantasy better. I understand there's excitement, revenue and refreshment being brought to the game with every new release, as well as opening up new options for storytelling. However, I'd love it if you guys took a leaf out of DOTA's book. Their transition from the custom W3 map to the steam powered DOTA2 involved keeping the most problematic champions behind for the first years of its release. Some smaller reworks followed, but all in all, they first tried to create a good system for all the "classic" heroes to interact in and finally, after so long, they released a new hero. Its very unlikely Riot is going to release a LOL2 game, so nobody expects everything to be built from scratch, but I believe that there's plenty of lessons to be learned from DOTA2's approach. Probably way more than I can understand compared to a game designer.
: Runes Corner: Runes Content Development Peek
Taking it to the extremes here: There was that one time when Boots of Swiftness granted more MS, Alacrity was the best boot ench because Homeguard was made baseline and Runic Echoes granted more % bonus MS. +10 MS isn't that big of a deal compared to back then, but are you guys sure you want this in the system? We've seen mobility creep plague the game time and again. Is 10 minutes enough room for the enemy to attempt to punish you?
CHAOS CHAOS (EUNE)
: {{champion:32}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:26}}
God Fist Lee would probably be Lee's release skin, if he was to be released today. Lul.
Reav3 (NA)
: Karthus is a great example of champion that should of gotten a full VGU instead of a VU, his gameplay has not aged very well at all unfortunately
Is he really? I find him very unique and the idea of using your death (your passive) for certain strategic benefits is pretty interesting, even by today's standards. What are the problems Karthus faces, that make him a champion in need of a VGU?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 6
Any chance you can spoil us with possible candidates for small scale updates?
: Meddler, what do you think of the criticism towards Kindred's E that's been floating around post-rework. (ie. It has a slow and an execute, which is kinda weird, since you wanna use the slow at the start of the gank, but the execute means you should save it till the end). Feels kinda weird to use lol.
It creates some interesting decisionmaking(TM) like that. Right?
Meddler (NA)
: The intent is that Flash/dashes/fast movement speed like powerball can be used to avoid the ult. Slower effects (e.g. boots + a small ability speed boots) shouldn't let you avoid it however. Current tuning's allowing people to get out it too easily so we'll be tightening it up.
How does it make sense that a targetted ultimate ability is supposed to miss its target? Zed's R doesn't miss if you E with Lucian and as we all know you can't flash an auto-attack, even if its coming from a melee character.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 2
Hello Meddler. Nice to see you back with a lot of thoughts on stuff. I want to talk about a few things: 1. Rek'sai: Played her a lot back in the day and tried her again as I was very excited. There's various complaints about her kit in /r/reksaimains and I made my comment on what would be nice to change (https://www.reddit.com/r/reksaimains/comments/6es4nb/reksai_feels_awful_to_play/dicxhkn/). 2. Support ecosystem: Just please keep iterating on it with updates. The work done here and there always seems to change the role for the best. 3. Changes to Abyssal Mask and Righteous Glory: All I can say is that I find the changes interesting, but I'm not too sure how they'll pan out. Would be great to see some more items added into the game if there's any holes and niches for items to fill. 4. Singed: I really like the guy. He's fun to watch in competitive,. If you're going to do work to him to push him into rewarding builds with some AP more than pure tank ones, why don't you take a look at his passive? Its usually the main source of complaints and the game is way past the day where his passive has any value to what he needs to do to win a game. Also, the R change looks like a pretty big nerf. 5. Gunblade: Any word about it? It really feels like an Akali item that LeBlanc happens to abuse. Any chance you'd rework it into something more useful, aimed towards champions who like to dive and deal sustained damage? (Thinking of Akali, Diana, possibly Ekko and Morde)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 19
Hey Meddler. It has been a while since mid season now and things are starting to settle down. You made 3 big updates to Maokai, Sejuani and Zac, with great success at making the champions more distinct and interesting. You also made some small updates to Rammus and Amumu aiding them in surviving in a League environment that is way beyond their day and age. My question is: What happened to Gragas? You guys haven't mentioned him at all and he's always had some issues. What are your thoughts on him? Do you have any plans in the near future outside of small adjustments?
Meddler (NA)
: We were looking at whether a ranged/melee split on the current health damage made sense. Conclusion was that at least right now the issue most in need of solving was the amount of sustain offered though, hence we're hitting that to start with.
The BotRK rework seems to have hit the spot. ADCs now have an early item to build, which makes them relevant early on. Hitting its lifesteal seems to be the appropriate take on this, since lifesteal and sustain creates really stale and bad laning patterns. If Blade really isn't THE anti-tank item anymore, why is lifestealing off the on-hit still a thing? The change came back in Season 5 when tanks really were in a problematic spot and carries didn't have any way to deal with them, but that's not the case nowadays. Heck, if you really need that extra sustain off the on-hit, now there's a very powerful item to use for that purpose and its called Death's Dance. Healing double off of an enemy's 8% current HP doesn't seem all that fair either.
: Hi Meddler. Here's some Zac Mains' thoughts on the changes: https://www.reddit.com/r/thesecretweapon/comments/695nb5/to_riot_shrieve_our_overall_opinion_on_the_zac/ About the voice, we like the pitch change, but we want it to happen around 30 or 35% HP left, not higher. And we also don't like how it also speeds up too, the pitch change is enough. Also, the main issue is the E CC nerf for us.
I like the idea of a reward for both instances of Zac's Q striking the same target. Additional blobs could spawn per enemy caught in the middle of the slam too.
Meddler (NA)
: We might have some Graves nerfs in 7.10. Not sure yet on Lee Sin, though being discussed.
Remember last year's Worlds patch? Lee got a very interesting buff and I argued a lot with my friends that this will definitely put him back in the meta. His 2nd cast W bonus lifesteal and spell vamp got doubled for Rank 1. Have you guys considered reverting that buff? Lee Sin nowadays looks like he's got a lot of strength, since he's really good with single target damage and 2 out of the three single unit camps are buffs - which are very important.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 2
>Rumble: Shifting some damage from Q to Overheat auto attacks, with the goal of making his laning a bit more interactive (Overheat autos require him to draw minion agro). Also aiming for power neutral, but with better game health. I don't think you can call a change like this power neutral. Overheat is way less accessible and always brings huge risks. Unless you are compensating with some ridiculous numbers, it is going to be a nerf.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 11
Hello Meddler. I asked in the AD thread aswell, but didn't get a reply. Is there any chance you can explain why Runaan's is the Zeal item offering 7% MS? Runaan's Bolts scale with your AA range, making it a better purchase the longer your range. Longer range means more safety and more MS means more safety aswell, aside from other things such as rotations. By contrast, RFC, an item that supposedly caters to the lower ranged ADCs' needs, offers 5% MS and the least AS of all. After its multiple nerfs, it kind of went out of the spotlight, except for cases where you combine it with Runaan's. Is there any chance you increase a bit the bonus AA range while keeping the cap intact, just to bring the lower ranged ones closer to the likes of Cait, Trist, Jinx, etc? On another note, can you make the Crit Damage reduction a unique effect? Why was it a stackable one in the first place? And since the goal is to make tank items effective at 1 source of damage, can you remove interactions with crit-like effects such as Anivia's E?
: Midseason AD Itemization Changes
Any chance you can explain the logic behind the % MS amounts different Zeal items offer? What really stands out to me is how Runaan's bolts scale with your AA range and it also offers 7% bonus MS, which results in longer range ADCs that are already safe, being more safe. By comparison, RFC should be the item lower ranged ADCs would like, but not only does it offer the least amount of AS by a large margin, it also offers 5% MS. Back in the early start of 2016 Season RFC was the go-to Zeal item and yes, it needed nerfs, but nowadays it doesn't seem as much of an appealing option, even for its best case users. That is, unless you combine it with Runaan's of course. Is there any chance that you increase the bonus range, while keeping the cap intact, just do bring lower range ADCs closer to the likes of Cait, Trist and Jinx?
: > What is your goal on tank scaling? Early lane largely unchanged (except for possible changes to Doran's Shield). Mid game slightly weaker against mixed damage, slightly stronger against singular damage threats. Late game probably comes out a bit stronger overall due to the addition of some new options in the shop. That said, there are some small measures taken in the changes that reduce tank damage from items as part of a general push toward making tanks be a little tankier but deal a little bit less damage later in the game. These types of changes will be clearer in the first PBE build. > How does this interact with penetration items? The value of penetration items would increase slightly, and the value of %HP items like BotRK would decrease slightly most likely, but there are also some small changes planned to keep penetration in check that will hopefully hit PBE soon as well. > Will tanks be getting a new Hp/Armor/CD item to reflect the Spirit visage for MR? This specifically is not planned, but we have given consideration to tank builds so that they can effectively include CDR in them, and based on those considerations, there will be some simple (but notable) stat line changes, at least in the first PBE push.
Hello. Is there any chance you guys leave the classic penetration items intact? Void Staff I can understand, since it is a very good all-around item because of its total MR penetration, but AD carries that build Last Whisper seem to struggle enough with beefier targets already. If anything, what should be looked at is The Black Cleaver, because lately it seems to replace Last Whisper in various builds (thinking of Ashe primarily, Graves is also a case). Possibly LDR and Mortal Reminder should be more of an end-game item, providing more AD to make it more attractive for pure AD builds? Given the latest changes to LW, most users will leave it at that and continue to build their core items, so I don't think increasing the slot efficiency for those two should be an issue? On another note, what do you think about Liandry's? We've seen this item built as a stand-alone purchase even on champions without slows in their kit. Is its popularity going to fall off given the changes in the amount of HP champions can get? Is it going to fall off because of increased MR/lvl for certain champions? Is it out of line currently?
Luminier (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SteelMankind,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=ppkM0ZAu,comment-id=00250001,timestamp=2017-03-14T20:40:29.753+0000) > > Honestly I'm pretty sure most Aatrox players are building him with too many damage items like old Aatrox. The W sustain scaling off health and not ad just screams a build like {{item:3071}} {{item:3022}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3143}} and being completely unkillable. Thing is, you'll have shitty attack speed to sustain yourself with W. You'll be attacking slow as balls.
You need to dive in the thick of the fight, in just the right moment and pop your R and Passive at the same time. That's plenty of AS to sustain yourself in the middle of a teamfight, but I believe it needs precision and it is a very specific scenario where Aatrox gets enough AS to actually heal up the damage he takes.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 14
> Changes to struggling junglers How do you guys feel about this situation? You make changes to the jungle in the preseason, the jungle ends up being very unfavourable to a set of junglers, which in turn become unplayable or weak at best, and then those champions remain that way for half a season. Is that something that concerns you or is that just a by-product of other issues that the champions have?
: That just means significant changes to the champion are in order. If someone is 100% banned, its pretty obvious they need changes.
As an EUNE player, I'm actually banning Yasuo more often than I should. I'm decent enough to be able to camp bad Yasuos and feed off of them, but Blind Pick has gotten me very tired of playing with/against Yasuos every single damn game. Not to mention, the last thing I want in my team, is a 35% win rate Yasuo flaming me for not camping his lane. If only Yasuo wasn't that popular, my friend, if only...
: > [{quoted}](name=Tundra Hunter,realm=OCE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=g5KtHmpX,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2017-02-21T23:03:55.952+0000) > > I am confused about why Warwick would need a nerf. > I don't think he needs a buff, but everybody agrees that his ult hitbox is too small and his q feels clunky, which to me should be the 2 things to fix. > Otherwise, he is not pick/ban in pro plays, and his winrate is pretty low at every elo (48% in bronze/silver/gold, 47% in plat, 45% in diamond, ~40% in master and challenger owing to op.gg). > Since you guys said Warwick is supposed to be accessible, and that accessible champ should have higher winrate than skill-champs (such as Ryze), I simply don't get it: Warwick, despite being "accessible", has a winrate <50% at all elo, particularly low at higher elo, and his ult hitbox is too small and his q feels clunky. > Could you explain why he would need a nerf? > To me, he needs some fix on q and ult, and no buff/no nerf. I was actually told by IWDominate that WW isn't good in high ELO. He didn't really explain why though. I know C9 Meteos tried him quite a few games but without much success.
First of all, all top tier junglers, have some way to bypass the geography of the jungle. Warwick does not. Blast cones are the only way to bridge the gap. Second, he is quite slow to kick in. His strength lies within his damage and his sustain, as well as his capabilities in 1v1ing later on. In a metagame where everything is focused at dominating the early game and snowballing off of advantages like the first brick, a jungler that can't really make huge, powerful ganks like Lee Sin or Elise do can't really be top tier. Warwick is good, he is fine right now in my eyes. He will really shine if the game ever shifts again to Season 5 standards. A stale, slow, methodical game, where it takes a long time to close out a game. And then again, he still might not be top tier, just like it happened with Skarner. Juggernaut patch Skarner was sitting at 64% winrate and was still pretty strong the next patch, but due to his inherent weaknesses that can be managed way better in coordinated play, he would never be as effective as his winrate suggests.
Meddler (NA)
: What we've got in testing at least is almost a new ability.
Aw, man! I actually loved Rek'sai's omnipresence.
: In it's current state Challenger was just 'Red Anti-thesis to Championship', so we wanted to hang onto Challenger and workshop it a bit more to dig into what makes this skin line cool.
Change the skin line name back to Dauntless and you can take it from there.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: Feb 16
Is there any chance you'd look into removing a small portion of defensive stats from tank items and distribute it to ALL the characters in League in the form of scaling stats? As of 7.3, the game feels a bit like a matter of "who drops the nuclear bomb first" kind of thing. There's lethality stackers everywhere in my games and everyone's exploding in a matter of milliseconds.
Meddler (NA)
: Potentially too strong, or at least too much power focused specifically in Q2. Unsure if we'll make changes, she's on a list of champs to be assessed during 7.5. development though.
In my humble opinion, I believe balance work aimed at MF should pull some power away from her ultimate into other parts of her kit. She is the queen of wombo combo certainly, but is it really okay that her entire gameplay focuses so much on her getting a good ult off, to the point that it actually distorts her build aswell? Her mini-game of switching targets constantly in a fight to optimise DPS looks very fun and makes her sort of unique.
Statikk (NA)
: No intention of touching Sion. This class update will probably touch the least amount of champions so far and instead focus on doing high himpact work on specific champions who will help define the future of the class. We're hoping our adjustments to systems such as base stats and items will do the heavy lifting in terms of creating overarching change for the class and game at large.
"This class update will probably touch the least amount of champions so far" is it possible you sir are forgetting about the juggernaut update? Because it only touched 4 of them. By your words, that would mean you will be touching 3 champions at best... :p On the matter of items, god yes, please make a TON of changes to tank items. I dream of a system where tanks mitigate damage proactively and although tanks and fighters build the same "tank" items, they build them for very different reasons. Also, I just played a game as Zac and literally got my HP chunked by an Annie, although 3 of my items provided MR (GA, Merc Treads, Visage). You don't get to see that happen with AD champions.
: The bork changes completely take the item away from fighers for the sake of 3 champions (Vayne, Twitch, Kalista), the triforce changes did the same for just 2 (Ezreal, Corki) :^]
I don't think Kalista really benefits from this direction of BotRK. She likes AS in her first item very much and that's why back in Season 5 most players rushed Runaan's (70% AS).
Meddler (NA)
: Particle work, probably a bit of character animation and sound. We think Kindred's in a pretty balanced spot power wise. There's some mismatch between expectation (scaling power over the course of the game via the mark collection) and actual play pattern though (early game power that tends to fall off). Would like to shift some things around at some point to better deliver on expectations there, not currently being worked on though.
Please, do some work on Kindred. They feel terrible compared to their release state. It feels like your passive really limits your options as to what items you are supposed to build and forces some wierd itemisation choices. Their early game just isn't there anymore, their late game isn't really a thing, the Fervor change hit them hard and to top it off, camps now take longer to respawn so can't claim your stacks as easily. Not to mention, you can't really claim your stacks anyway, since there are so many of their natural predators out there. Furthermore, her ult is a great counter to assassins and divers and this should have been their time in the spotlight, but they are in such a disappointing state. It would be very nice if the Mark hunt wasn't so mandatory and if you could itemise for AD without feeling bad about it. And for the love of god, if you aren't willing to look at Kindred, can you at least bring back the healing on W? Even if it does the same for clearing the jungle, it was such a great tool for teamfights and skirmishes.
Verdade (EUNE)
: I don't think she needs direct buff. She is on the weaker side because she trades AP scaling on utility for base values. However, current support itemisation HEAVILY favours tanky stats and gold sinks in general (hp regen, mana regen, CDR, health). If we had more items like {{item:3504}} and less tank support items she would be more than fine. Since you took {{item:3060}} away from AP supports {{item:3504}}{{item:3174}} are the only legitimate AP support items we have right now, and {{item:3174}} is on the weaker side as it suffers from having too much gold-sink stats. Edit: I might as well ask, why are support items cluttered with gold-sink stats? Supports already have lowest amount of gold to work with, and i don't think they actually need HP regen on most of their items. Abilities of supports are WAY too expensive, 3 of Janna's abilities cost over 100 mana. It's ridiculous when you compare it to non-support champions.
I've always been really troubled as to why support items provide so much of everything else, but not the stats the supports like. I understand the fear of moving "gold-sink stats" to AP in Athene is that mid laners might start picking it up, but then again, it's not very efficient for mids anymore. It also handicaps supports pretty hard being a 20% CDR item. Heck, in today's build, they added 5 MR to the item. Why?
: I'm sorry but how isn't Kindred in a similar situation? Kindred relies 90% on stacks since it's mostly an on-hit champion, but you guys removed all sustain and trading tools that Kindred had, leaving a very squishy auto-attacker marksman against champions like Rengar, Kha, Lee, Elise etc... How can you expect such a champion to counter jungle when you have only a 50% slow and nothing else, no shield no sustain no real mobility. Wolf's W is pratically useless and extremely slow, doesn't scale with atk speed and barely help against champions that break you instantly. Take Graves for exemple, he's a marksman too but has a passive that makes him tanky and he can burst real fast using thunderlords. What can Kindred do exactly against good juggernauts or fighters? I feel like her whole kit doesn't help her at all. W as i stated is slow, the E takes too much time to proc early and isn't feared by anyone with such a weak slow and Q is useless early on since it scales on the passive that is so hard to stack. It's like a whole minigame at the fair where the guy sets up the game for you to be mostly the loser. The curve required to play Kindred and be good is extremely different from most champions and i don't find that normal. You had a great themed champion at release but removing little by little some mechanics made her whole kit weird and outdated... It just doesn't make sense because nothing in her kit makes her auto&dps easier or scale easier in early. That's the whole problem of Kindred : the early game (because late if you're stacked and with fervor you're great, but you need thunderlord to be decent early?). I don't want to be rude here at all just discussing, but i find it sad to see players leave the champion by force because Riot refuses to aknowledge some stats, numbers and issues and we see a Kindred every 100 games or so... i myself find it extremely frustrating that i just can't enjoy my favorite champion in the game for a while now. And to be back real quick on the Aurelion Sol thing, i think Kindred is by far very worst to Aurelion's situation mostly because they are junglers. You have way more responsabilities, you have to deal with lanes, jungle **AND your stacks**. An Aurelion can farm up and be safe on his lane, but that will never come close to being hard as managing a whole mini-game such as Kindred's kit.
I'm just hoping they can bring back the W heal. Given the heal and the maim have the same impact on Kindred's clears, the heal was so much better since it was some nice bonus sustain in teamfights. Then again, I wish they would make Kindred feel less bad about getting AD. If they don't want though, maybe it is a good idea to get Wolf to attack faster with a % of your AS. Back in her good days, I was going to main Kindred. I enjoyed their theme, I enjoyed playing them. You could do a DPS build with on-hits and devourer and still get some AD, you could do a utility build with SotA, PD, Mallet, you could do a burst gimmick build with Warrior RFC and Youmuu's. Now what? Now you are forced between a rock and a hard place. Get Warlord to heal off your low AD autos, since it doesn't work with on-hits? Get Fervor to ramp up some damage, with Kindred's poor AD scalings and their dislike towards critical? Heck, even the mini-game with the stacks isn't fine right now. Camps take so long to respawn, losing a stack hurts so much more and you can only counter-act that by pulling ganks on your marked targets successfully. And good lord, as much as I can appreciate the visuals on Kindred's E auto VFX, they should do something about it. I've cancelled it so many times by accident and I can't get the timing right. Maybe the passive stacks mini-game should be de-emphasized a bit. At this point it's just forcing Kindred into a certain build with no real options to make. That's why I'm begging for a small scale rework, just like the ones rick (if I'm not mistaken) did to Sona and Leona.
: I'm not saying Kindred is fine - I'm saying that I don't believe restructuring the kit is warranted. I think we can get them where they need to go with primarily tuning changes - numbers changes and small mechanical changes.
1. Bring back the W heal and remove the maim. (Love the particle too!) 2. Allow Kindred to itemise for AD items instead of AS+On-hits.
Sasogwa (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Coraxo,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=igNPiijW,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-01-05T21:23:39.402+0000) > > Oh come on dude xD > > I am actually serious.. In season 6 she had 49% win rate in plat and it went about 3% lower win rate in each lower rank, she was only "broken" in my elo and above (diamond and above) and that's basically because this champion requires a lot of skill to master (whether you agree or not, her win rate in each elo is enough to prove so). > > Unlike what few people have said, she's not like Kassadin. she requires a lot more skill to master than Kassadin. .......... So what, if she requires more skill, she deserves to be more powerful? That's a freaking failed logic that led to all the pick or ban champions in competitive, just because they're "skilled" it's ok for them to be overloaded af and simply better than other champs when mastered, right?
It feels pretty bad when a 3-item-Draven who juggles his axes perfectly and positions to avoid any and all skillshots still gets to die to a 2-item-Poppy that basically just moved around on 40 APM. Yes, this problem is more relevant to Poppy's balance and the tank itemisation, but high-skill champions should be rewarding to master. Not give you a 50.1% win rate after 400 games. And simpler, easier, less mechanically-intense champions should still be rewarding to master and play, but they shouldn't be more powerful than high-skill ones, since that takes away a lot from the mastery aspect of the game. And the game only seems to shift far far away from this...
Meddler (NA)
: We'll be buffing Nid in 7.2. Not sure what changes yet, would be aiming for a fairly sizable power increase given her current state though.
Is ricklessabandon going to do the work for her this time around too? He usually comes up with very smart ways to move power from one place of the kit to another. I understand making her traps powerful would tax a lot of her power budget since it's going to be plenty of hidden power, but please do something about them. Currently they are the least interesting part of her kit and the only purpose to them seems to be to proc her passive onto unsuspecting victims. Also, if you are looking into reverting jungle camp respawn timers, to reduce how much time junglers have to gank after clearing their jungle, then please be careful. She might come back as a monster omnipotent jungler again. As much as I wanna see her being powerful and super-exciting as a high-skill champion, I don't want another year of nerfs every second patch.
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Venedictos

Level 63 (EUNE)
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