: Win rate is clearly a direct correlation of champion strength. 53% absolutely means something, unless your argument is that Shaco wins 100% of games after 30 minutes and 0% of games before 30 minutes. As for dialogue, guess what? The original context of this whole assmadfest is that the balance team was originally looking at potential nerfs for Shaco in the first place! The only ‘dialogue’ you want is one where you shout at Riot and magically everything goes your way.
> [{quoted}](name=LyingOnLine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aQJzTwu9,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-26T19:48:04.604+0000) > > Win rate is clearly a direct correlation of champion strength. 53% absolutely means something, unless your argument is that Shaco wins 100% of games after 30 minutes and 0% of games before 30 minutes. > > As for dialogue, guess what? The original context of this whole assmadfest is that the balance team was originally looking at potential nerfs for Shaco in the first place! The only ‘dialogue’ you want is one where you shout at Riot and magically everything goes your way. there're only fucking mains and one trick playing him, a random player won't even have 30% winrate on shaco, compared to a freaking skarner this patch ffs
: This isn’t dialogue though. This is some butthurt Shaco ranting about how he doesn’t want his 53% wr baby seeing potential nerfs.
> [{quoted}](name=LyingOnLine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aQJzTwu9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-26T19:42:11.210+0000) > > This isn’t dialogue though. > > This is some butthurt Shaco ranting about how he doesn’t want his 53% wr baby seeing potential nerfs. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/eEPke06j-the-shaco-situation please check this thread, because it seems like you think that winrates mean everything
: Talk to an 8 year Shaco main about Shaco, Meddler. Don't be afraid.
Well said, however I still believe that Riot is gonna straight up ignore us, like they were doing if for the last year...
: They plan on ignoring him until they fix him. 30% critical damage every few attacks is nothing, especially for an assassin. For comparison's sake, Riven gets 50% every time she casts a skill. Especially since a regular 200% crit overrides his passive. As stated above, JitB is useless for damage after level 6, and is only ever used to block a skillshot. Even before level 6, fairly useless since the priority bug that ~~King Rapist~~ Meddler refuses to acknowledge.
> [{quoted}](name=Unreformed Shaco,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEPke06j,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-26T19:32:02.754+0000) > > They plan on ignoring him until they fix him. > > > 30% critical damage every few attacks is nothing, especially for an assassin. For comparison's sake, Riven gets 50% every time she casts a skill. Especially since a regular 200% crit overrides his passive. > > As stated above, JitB is useless for damage after level 6, and is only ever used to block a skillshot. > Even before level 6, fairly useless since the priority bug that ~~King Rapist~~ Meddler refuses to acknowledge. yes, I forgot to add the skill shot blocking to the JitB part
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 23
Tbh, Riot doesn't even give a shit about Shaco, Phreak on his Patch Notes video even said that he hates this champion and that Shaco is literally a dumb champion and deserves the huge nerf (talking about the damage removal from his Q). Pretty neat that adc mains are trying to fix assassins. Meddler, the Gold 4 Varus (55% wr (cuz Varus is broken right now)) and Jinx (42%wr) player is balancing the game around ad carries from what it seems like. They won't make Ninja Tabi a melee-only items, because it would hurt AD Carries. Oh, it's also pretty sad that Riot balances the game around low elo, because they're the majority of players. If Shaco got a buff, surely he would be overpowered in low elo, because these players are trash, and don't have any rough idea of predicting the Shaco. Right now as you're balancing the game around them, it seems like you guys don't want them to improve. If Shaco was buffed, he wouldn't be overpowered in higher elo, cuz players are good enough to counter him. Low elo players would struggle against him, that's the point - low elo players would need to actually GET BETTER at the game in order to learn HOW TO PREDICT and COUNTER Shaco. But yeah, it requires too much work for a low elo adc main's brain cells to simply buy a 1100g item (hello Ninja Tabi) and GA 3rd item instead of going full damage with Zerkers.
: > [{quoted}](name=GettemClone,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7Ex4xin,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-02-25T01:59:10.730+0000) > > look at most champs with low fukin pick rate .. they all got 51-55% win rate .. its because only OTP's are playing it .. fukin hell use ur brain.. > > ivern 53%, quinn 55%, aatrox 53%, kind 54%, olaf 53%, sol 55%, kayle 51%, draven 55%, udyr 55%, > > now look at shaco when he had 2% pick rate .. he was at 55% win rate .. now he's at 3.20% pick rate .. and his win rate dropped to 52% !! I don't see why one trick players should have higher win rates as their main champ if almost all their games are that one champ unless they are below their mmr. Honestly hate this champ anyway. Stealth isn't a play and when shaco comes out of being invisible and instantly one shots you I'm sure no one thinks "damn I got outplayed." Stealth is just a cheesy mechanic and cheesy strategies mainly exist to beat opponents of greater skill level than you.
> [{quoted}](name=Pyromaniacks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7Ex4xin,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-02-25T02:07:27.752+0000) > > I don't see why one trick players should have higher win rates as their main champ if almost all their games are that one champ unless they are below their mmr. > > Honestly hate this champ anyway. Stealth isn't a play and when shaco comes out of being invisible and instantly one shots you I'm sure no one thinks "damn I got outplayed." Stealth is just a cheesy mechanic and cheesy strategies mainly exist to beat opponents of greater skill level than you. I'm not even surprised that you're being punished and one shotted for playing like a retard. Ninja Tabi don't allow him to one shot the target
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 23
I really think that Meddler should take coaching lessons from Kadeem718. He is a Rank 13 Bronze 5 player that smurfs in lower elos, cuz he doesn't want to show how good he is at this game
: Is there anything being discussed about the current state of {{champion:16}}? She has received many indirect nerfs in the patches recently, with Grievous Wounds {{item:3123}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3075}} becoming a lot more prevalent. Even before this it is a flip of a coin when an opposing laner decides to buy a Grievous Wounds item and just statcheck henceforth. I'm not sure if it's healthy gameplay for Soraka's heals, most of her kit, to be balanced around the Grevious Wounds debuff. Overpowered and obnoxious it is at times without, then underpowered when GW is used, it feels like. Another issue I think is concerning her is that her lane bullying potential has been undermined by prevalent sustain in lane through the runes and starting items. This isn't a criticism of the new runes, but I hope someone revisits Soraka because of it. The lane bully harass of Q I think has become a lot less meaningful this season. On the League subreddit I've seen talk about her winrate, but I don't think it's a viable metric of whether the champion is in a good spot at the moment because of the nature of the Grievous Wounds debuff.
> [{quoted}](name=Banbutsu Sozo,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00b3,timestamp=2018-02-25T12:25:18.270+0000) > > Is there anything being discussed about the current state of {{champion:16}}? She has received many indirect nerfs in the patches recently, with Grievous Wounds {{item:3123}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3075}} becoming a lot more prevalent. Even before this it is a flip of a coin when an opposing laner decides to buy a Grievous Wounds item and just statcheck henceforth. > > I'm not sure if it's healthy gameplay for Soraka's heals, most of her kit, to be balanced around the Grevious Wounds debuff. Overpowered and obnoxious it is at times without, then underpowered when GW is used, it feels like. > > Another issue I think is concerning her is that her lane bullying potential has been undermined by prevalent sustain in lane through the runes and starting items. This isn't a criticism of the new runes, but I hope someone revisits Soraka because of it. The lane bully harass of Q I think has become a lot less meaningful this season. > > On the League subreddit I've seen talk about her winrate, but I don't think it's a viable metric of whether the champion is in a good spot at the moment because of the nature of the Grievous Wounds debuff. we don't want cancer supports in league
: > [{quoted}](name=ivisumon,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=000800030014,timestamp=2018-02-24T19:37:18.545+0000) > > Gold 4 adc main. Subjective af. Maybe meddler should try out ninja tabis and GA 3rd item, easy to think shacos busted when you go berserkers full damage and position like a 45% winrate low gold player.
> [{quoted}](name=Extreme Person,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=0008000300140000,timestamp=2018-02-24T20:37:40.975+0000) > > Maybe meddler should try out ninja tabis and GA 3rd item, easy to think shacos busted when you go berserkers full damage and position like a 45% winrate low gold player. holy fuck so true, shots fired
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Torturer4749,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00aa,timestamp=2018-02-24T18:09:54.105+0000) > > Seems like meddler got raped by clowns when he was a kid.Thats why he doesn’t want to buff Shaco and wants to nerf him instead > R.I.P {{champion:35}} https://imgur.com/a/Wzxw5
Meddler (NA)
: We're talking about Shaco. Risk there is he's pretty strong already at most skill levels already, so we'd already been considering a nerf on pub stomp grounds. Nothing conclusive yet, but less sure we should add power to him as a result, even if Duskblade gets nerfed.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00080003,timestamp=2018-02-23T19:50:39.746+0000) > > We're talking about Shaco. Risk there is he's pretty strong already at most skill levels already, so we'd already been considering a nerf on pub stomp grounds. Nothing conclusive yet, but less sure we should add power to him as a result, even if Duskblade gets nerfed. ShacoREE at this guy http://apollo-eu-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/1430542551705/Riotbalanceteam.jpg
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 23
https://www.reddit.com/r/shacomains/comments/7zw20q/what_the_fuck_do_you_want_to_nerf_when_theres/
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 23
https://clips.twitch.tv/OpenTenaciousWaspSSSsss Shaclone on Riot Meddler talking about Shaco
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 23
Meddler prob got camped by a Shaco one trick in gold elo and now thinks he needs a nerf {{item:3147}} you will be missed
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 23
Make Shaco great again you shitty company
: > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00080003,timestamp=2018-02-23T19:50:39.746+0000) > > We're talking about Shaco. Risk there is he's pretty strong already at most skill levels already, so we'd already been considering a nerf on pub stomp grounds. Nothing conclusive yet, but less sure we should add power to him as a result, even if Duskblade gets nerfed. Gold 4 adc main xd(no flame btw)
> [{quoted}](name=Deranged Puppet,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00080003000a,timestamp=2018-02-24T14:36:28.406+0000) > > Gold 4 adc main xd(no flame btw) *gold 4 adc main with 42% winrate on jinx and 55% winrate on varus because he's broken
CHAOS CHAOS (EUNE)
: @Meddler - How do you want to nerf Shaco, if he only scales with items, runes and tricks, he has almost no base dmg on abilities (AD Shaco is about passive, controlling the Clone and using E as finisher). What you could possibly do is make E a skillshot, but keep his damage, cuz he could be able, as assassin, kill squishy targets, as he can now. He still cant fight some champs like Skarner, Warwick or some juggernauts. I personally think Shaco is very strong mid/late with Dark Harvest, because rune proc instantly from stealth on emp (passive) attack. A fed Shaco can burst squishy targets on AA Tiamat E, but every fed assassin should be able to carry mid game.
> [{quoted}](name=F R E D R I K S,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00a1,timestamp=2018-02-24T13:59:17.085+0000) > > @Meddler - How do you want to nerf Shaco, if he only scales with items, runes and tricks, he has almost no base dmg on abilities (AD Shaco is about passive, controlling the Clone and using E as finisher). What you could possibly do is make E a skillshot, but keep his damage, cuz he could be able, as assassin, kill squishy targets, as he can now. He still cant fight some champs like Skarner, Warwick or some juggernauts. I personally think Shaco is very strong mid/late with Dark Harvest, because rune proc instantly from stealth on emp (passive) attack. A fed Shaco can burst squishy targets on AA Tiamat E, but every fed assassin should be able to carry mid game. exactly
Meddler (NA)
: We're talking about Shaco. Risk there is he's pretty strong already at most skill levels already, so we'd already been considering a nerf on pub stomp grounds. Nothing conclusive yet, but less sure we should add power to him as a result, even if Duskblade gets nerfed.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=X3P0v1Vh,comment-id=00080003,timestamp=2018-02-23T19:50:39.746+0000) > > We're talking about Shaco. Risk there is he's pretty strong already at most skill levels already, so we'd already been considering a nerf on pub stomp grounds. Nothing conclusive yet, but less sure we should add power to him as a result, even if Duskblade gets nerfed. Kill yourself
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 23
Hey Meddler. What about {{champion:35}} ? {{champion:35}}'s only one way of being an assassin is taking Dark Harvest and rushing {{item:3147}} simply because you guys **completely removed his Q damage** in season 7, but even with the current pre-nerfed {{item:3147}}, you aren't able to kill an adc that simply builds {{item:3047}}, compared to other assassins still managing to 100-0 them even though they have {{item:3047}}. {{champion:35}}'s main damage source are items, which means, if you nerf {{item:3147}}, you're not only gonna balance other assassins, but also ruin {{champion:35}}'s damage output (which is actually a joke right now) making him unplayable as an assassin. He needs major changes, as an assassin without any damage coming right from his kit...

kilI yourself

Level 25 (EUNE)
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