: 3k hp at 3 items what you building {{item:3083}} {{item:3022}} {{item:3071}} and you level 16-18. Or you could be a mage and be no less than 2.8k hp with just {{item:3027}} some even make it to 3k hp. even more if you get {{item:3151}} or {{item:3165}}. or you can be 2.6 with no health items built at all
lvl 16 titanic-trinity-steraks give you well over 3k hp+ with the shield
GigglesO (NA)
: It had way more customization. I had alot of my friends that were only slightly mana hungry that they should splash 2-4 mana regen runes into their blue runes... Suddenly they didn't run out of mana in lane phase... The thing about the old runes that riot hated was that players just played "the same god damn thing" every game because "thats what the pros do". Well we have the same exact thing happening but now there is even more screen clutter and no real customization to how I play the game. You want mana spend 1/6 of your runes on it or gtfo. Before you could spend 3-4/30 runes on it. Then you still had all of your masteries left to play with.
people did the same thing pro did because runes were super expensive so you wanted to buy as little as possible and use them on as many as possible champs
Hibeki (NA)
: A) The maximum range on rapid fire is 700 for jhin. 550 + 150. And yes, 35% of 550 reaches the cap of 150 because its 192.5 B) He doesn't have flash and doesnt have heal, or any traps or W to approach. An auto attack on a full health alistar is not critical in this fight, and he absolutely should have waited for cooldowns to approach and escape. His W came up while alistar was on him an his Q cannot help him. C) Again, no, he didn't. He made an auto attack command, it walked up to auto at 550 range and RFC came up in the auto. If you look at the first point, you'd know this was true because if he DID auto at max range, he outranges alistar's 650 headbutt with a 700 AA range, so he could not have headbutted. Pro's fuck up, they overall have better mechanics and knowledge then me but to say they are perfect human beings and never make mistakes is overall one of the stupidest things ive ever seen said in this community and a dangerous mindset. You don't do youre research, you don't look at the facts, in fact you ignore them in favor of further peddling your sheep mentality.
while he's shooting alistar close the gap and headbutt you boosted animal nd alistar literally step on a trap
Hibeki (NA)
: Jhin can straight up get a 400 hp heal or 650 movespeed from just auto attacking with not one but TWO runes. Please tell me how thats not abusing a rune harder than supports who get some durability and some damage from a rune. Stop acting surprised when you build nothing but damage, walk into range, and die fast.
nice to see you dropped the "Basic mechanics and game knowledge." argument > some durability and some damage til that 70 armor and mr at lvl 1 is "some" durability. > when you build nothing but damage, walk into range, and die fast. you mean like riot force adc to build since building any kind of defence before 3 items+boots means you deal negative damage. this is also why lucian is the best ad since he gets the ls from botrk and hp from bc so he doesn't insta die. also he's not walking into range of a fed assassin with cds up he's walking into range of draven and ali to do his job and draven get instakilled btw dark harvest is meta on jhin since you can proc from range with your abilities https://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Jhin https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/runes/jhin
Hibeki (NA)
: A) Picked a better fucking keystone and never have this problem B) Dont walk into alistar's sphere of influence with everything on coolown C) Actually use the rapidfirecannon increased range and NOT fire the shot for increased damage mid hit Basic mechanics and game knowledge. ADC players like you act like they can do literally nothing and think literally nothing and still win every fight. Zven did literally everything wrong there.
"Basic mechanics and game knowledge." yep i'm sure you know how to play this game better than a lcs pro adc especially since A) zven aa ali at max rfc range, headbutt's range is simply 650 range B) alistar literally step on a trap, and jhin as everything off cd other than trap (which alistar stepped on) C)he actually move up to aa as soon as rfc is ready and aa at max range
Hibeki (NA)
: Im not saying I like damage being high in this game. I'm saying the alistar had every advantage in his favor, and that Zven played it like absolute dogshit and you still act like he should have won that fight. If you honestly think he should have just been able to right click and walk away from the computer and win every fucking fight you're whats wrong with the game. Because that's exactly what youre asking. Zven picked a garbage keystone into 4 tanks instead of 1 of the 2 that could kite him out of the tanks range and keep him completely safe.
ok explain what zven could've done differently. because q doesn't save him, w has a cast time and just get sidestepped, his e is on cd and cannot ult. his team peel off and kill the draven then had to deal with irelia and urgot since they mistakenly assumed a tank support with 3 ccs that already used all of his cds shouldn't be able to kill an adc
Hibeki (NA)
: So then it has nothing to do with tanks or adc's and that its added factors across the board. Your argument just kinda falls apart then.
how is against my argument the fact support received nothing but buffs to their gold income and op items and abuse runes better than adc and that the rework usually powercrept the game while adc got nuked from orbit because of ench supports strenght+ardent?
: if zed ult a carry close to alistar he is dead as soon as he reappers
WHO HAS ENOUGH AOE TO KILL 2 GUYS SINCE IT'S USUALLY THE MIDLANER MAGE THAT BRINGS IT AND ZED TOOK HIS SPOT? he doesn't need to do anything more because his mid+top+adc+jungler should win vs top+support+jungler+adc since he's negating 1 of the carries. thanks to you now i understand why my supports always dive in like dumbasses and not peel the enemy assassin/bruiser off me {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Hibeki (NA)
: Vods from past seasons before aftershock, before rework, before AD removal on R and before zekes was good with ignite running supports. That's a lot of extra damage youre ignoring.
: if zed ult a carry close to alistar he is dead as soon as he reappers
yeah the adc is hitting freely from RANGE while zed does 0 damage because the support with half his gold spam taunt near the ad. explain how this is bad for ali's team. you are actually dumb af im done, gn
: if zed ult a carry close to alistar he is dead as soon as he reappers
negating the enemy midlaner as a support without even using 1 cd is not useful? are you trolling now?
Hibeki (NA)
: A full tank class with reliable CC and three sources of damage amp should absolutely 1v1 someone with zero kite, mobility, or abilities. If his dumbass had picked Fleeted Footwork or Hail of Blades since hes vs 4 fucking tanks Alistar couldn't even touch
just watch vods from past seasons. alistars got actually IGNORED in teamfights after the combo because he could only aa for negligible damage and could not 1v1 carries
: if zed ult a carry close to alistar he is dead as soon as he reappers
alistar standing on top of zed's target means zed can't do anything other than poke with his shuriken
: an ADC winning a fight with only auto attacks against a champion that uses their whole kit? that's so stupid haha.
a 1/4/9 alistar support spamming his point and click abilities while not having to cs or buy dmg honestly deserve to 1v1 a 5/2/5 jhin that invested 6k+ gold in making his aa doing damage tbh
: He didn't. 3 different people got an assist from that play. Jhin clicked 0 abilities.
the death recap is literally shown. 1 luden proc from gragas and 250 dmg from irelia's ult, both not shown in the clip (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/345378703?t=3h24m0s link to the full vod) jhin can't click abilities because q doesn't save him and has a cast time and w get just sidestepped
Anìmê (NA)
: Ok Alistar is good against bad Zeds. Any ranged champion damage can be nullified by Braum, but let's just forget about that and you know Zed surkins are projectiles so they go away too.
if zed ult a carry close to alistar he is dead as soon as he reappers
Anìmê (NA)
: Braum is better at keeping his carries alive. And Leona has a CC that she can use from a safe distance. Ali has to be in melee range to CC anyone.
imagine thinking leona "im going to suicideengage if im behind" is safer than alistar. zed jump on the adc braum has one (1) stun, one (1) slow knockup and a slow. alistar has a knockback that force zed to burn either flash or shadow and an istant knockup plus a delayed stun. while being much much better vs poke in lane and a better all in and having much much better engage
Jaspers (EUW)
: He was 1300 when the fight started, took in the fight ignite putting him at 970 or so, 2 headbutt pulverise and Q, a level 5 Q with level 3 W would do 400 damage, so 800, plus 100 from all ticks of E even at level 1. So 900, then his E 5 stacks bonus stun/damage scales by level so 205 at level 11. His resistances being taken into account, Jhin got hit by everything and died. Seems about right.
Anìmê (NA)
: Never said he needed buffs or that he was weak. I started that he needs more damage than Leona and Braum because they offer more ultility/(damage from Leona's passive) and range from Leona's ult.
yeah but alistar has can knockback, knock up and stun + he becomes unkillable for another rotation even when behind. it also offer sustain. so it can either peel better than braum or engage harder than leona while being safer in lane
Anìmê (NA)
: He is the tankiest for a short duration and then he becomes the squishies support tank. I doesn't do much damage, but a tiny bit more than the other support tanks because they offer more than him.
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/alistar/master yeah that's why he has a 30% banrate in master+, he really needs buffs :^)
Doge2020 (NA)
: Yeah but did you read why the Jhin lost? Those factors are all controllable by the player. That clip has nothing to do with Jhin being fed, it was all the player using his/her abilities wrong because he used it before hand, and the ally supp flaying the Ali right onto the Jhin,
alistar should never be able to 1v1 anyone from 90% hp unless building damage or that means he's either broken af or the game is broken af, probably both
Anìmê (NA)
: He doesn't really do much damage even if he builds it. The point of a support is to have high base damage numbers that scale horribly. If supports like Ali did not damage that they would be beyond useless. They only reason Leona and Braum work with lower damage is because Leona passive gives your team more damage and Braum has insane utility. Alistar has CC and Tankyness and a little bit of damage to make up for having little utility.
alistar is the tankiest support with superb engage and relly good peel plus sustain in lane. why would he need damage?
Doge2020 (NA)
: And people believe that Jhin was supposed to win that fight just from that clip? Wtf are they stupid? Lol EDIT: for y’all that don’t know this was sarcasm and a joke lol.
: Cait does not “hard counter” Draven or Lucian lmao. She _hard_ counters Vayne.
she used to counter draven, this is why draven one tricks used to ban her. also had a really good matchup vs lucian if she didn't get enaged on by the support
: you dieing is not an excuse to have more damage otherwise fighters would have infinite damage by now.
implying they don't already have infinite damage while having 3k hp at 3 items
: > [{quoted}](name=charge attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ib6AwKla,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-12-07T01:20:48.975+0000) > > Base defenses also nerfed. Fleet also nerfed. He's strong because other ADCs are garbage - he's objectively in one of his weakest states since release right now in terms of raw numbers/ratios. > > This is Zven btw. Challenger level. ADCs lost armor and gained HP, Ali did mostly true and magic damage. Zven has more defensive stats then he would have pre 8.11. If this exact play happened on 8.10 Zven would've died then too. Just a fact. Funny thing about the fact you mentioned FFW because he would've lived had he taken it instead of DH. But hey his DH did almost 600 damage that game, wouldn't want to be able to kite better and get off a crit auto for that much. LMAO I'm also not sure how buffing IE would change Alistar's damage.
because an ie-rfc-something jhin would've exploded ali with the 4th shot
: by the way, there is another thread here that ill quote, where a rioter explained very well the issue with adc and game agency https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/a3pp81/a_rioters_personal_stance_on_the_state_of_marksmen/ > I'm going to heavily caveat this with "this is just my opinion". > Marksmen are systemically overpowered. That's gonna be true of a role that is functionally mandatory to the game. Yes there are some counters - but they are seen as cheese. If they were actual accepted counters to them, we would see pros adapt rather then literally bench >themselves and wait out until we make their role OP again (looking at you Rekkles). And there are also really good reasons that we keep them >overpowered. They create a very understandable game-flow for all players with inevitability (they will win the game if not dealt with). > That said, Marksmen have low agency. Agency is a measure of how impactful their own actions are at determining their success - and I strongly suspect this is what marksmen actually complain about. They got this weird conception that they are supposed to be carries (adc lul) - but that's literally the opposite of what they are. The more reliable your output is (repeatable ranged unmissable dps), the less agency you can have. Really you can view every ability as a way to buy agency - and the more unreliable (missable/dodgeable/high cost/difficult to position/long CD) your ability is the more agency it can buy. And since Marksmen put the majority of their power budget in a very reliable ability (AAs), they can buy the least agency. >Imagine how miserable a fight would be if Marksmen had the most agency. You can't outplay an AA, you can't wait for it to be on CD or dodge it, and therefore the Autoattacker also can't outplay with that AA. Anything you tried to do to stop this, the marksmen would negate because they have higher agency. Every other role MUST have agency over them - or they reliably lose because marksmen are reliable. So as long as their AAs consume the majority of their power budget, they are functionally very powerful cannon minions, not carries. Carries are the players who do something proactive that wins the game - definitionally something that requires high agency (ie: Malphite Ulted 5 ppl). >This is made worse by how well marksmen scale with gold, which just means they need to be weak early game. Since games snowball and players tilt and get mad at teammates, mistakes can easily compound to functional defeat before they get enough gold. This effect is generally sharper the further away from coordinated professional play you get (especially with flaming teammates in game - something I assume basically never happens in actual profession matches). I would go as far as to say that a significant amount of our players should probably not even be playing marksmen at their MMR since they and their teammates simply can't play around them well enough. season 7 during the ardent meta when crit itemization was cheap and "good", it was exactly the situation that lead to marksmen having too much game agency. that being said, i dont deny that stormrazor didnt cause issues and some marksmen have very skewed power curves at the moment, while others adopted stormrazor just fine. thats why they intend to work on the item. but the overpowered early game and midgame that marskmen enjoyed for 2 years is done. from the sound of it, youre not going to get it back. theyre thinking of making marksmen a bit more defensive and tune down their overall damage scaling in return, and work on stormrazor to smoothen out some of their power curves. but you can never expect a lategame build to kick in with 2 cheap items. the fact that this ever happened was disgusting when it did.
yeah it had nothing to do with supports being strong af and buying overpowered items like ardent censer, nope nothing at all
: This is so dumb you can literally just build {{item:1051}} {{item:3031}} and have just like the old ie with broken true damage. Marskmen have pretty high base ad about 90-95% of bruisers while having at least 50% better base attack speed. and due to range they can forgo defense if they dont walk into the enemy front lines range like sven did.
explain how does that gives me back the +50% crit damage. ah yes i get 10% conversion to true damage vs the irelia that build tabi (-10% to my dmg output) ga and steraks so my 10% true damage ignore what 150 armor? id take the +50% damage thx
: So what was the Ali building? And how fed is said alistar? Also Ignite OP.
Alistar was fucking 1/4
Rioter Comments
Mirkhail (EUW)
: I honestly don't see a correlation, the removal of team builder or dominion would "force" people to play blind or draft, more people play ranked because they now can play with 3 or 4 friends instead of only 5 or 2
I played only tb before dq for a year+. After playing 200 games of dq I quitted lol
: For a bunch of people crying about "representative samples" - being 20,000 or so people crying and wailing and moaning about Dyanamic queue, you further prove you people have no idea what that means. One game isn't enough to form any sort of valid opinion.
http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=achaoticmind Quitted after 200+ games of DQ. I just felt I had no impact in half of my games (win or losses). It's just not fun being smashed or carried by premades because they can simply comunicate better. Also the ranking system means nothing now so couldn't give a shit abut the game (and they closed teambuilder, wich was my main mode for the last year+). I quitted after a polish guy flamed in post-game's chat and everyone reported him. btw I didn't quit because of flaming. I quitted because when I was going to click again the play button, I got the message that the flamer got banned. I burst out in laugh (his flame was fun, a mix of polish and broken english) genuinely happy for the first time since 100+ ranked games. And then I realized. That was more fun than playing the game. I closed the client and unistalled League.
Rioter Comments
: Eight games like this? Someone either feeds or trolls. Am I just unlucky or what? I don't have a powerful premade to play with but this shouldn't be so ridiculous like this...
I had a 14 ranked loss streak a months ago... shit happens but sooner or later your MMR will drop enough to play vs worse player for easier wins :)
: What champion makes your day when playing him/her
{{champion:29}} Nothing is like being full build at 50 min, just stealth past the frontline and obliterate the enemy mid's _and_ adc's HP bars with 3 aa. After that easy clean up with resetting stealth and perma 70% AS buff Kreygasm
: im so bloody tired of bruiser master yi
Imo it's because {{item:3748}} and {{item:3053}} are stupid items. They give enough damage to burst down a carry _and_ enough HP to survive at least 1-2 sec of CC. Guess what is the counterplay to high dmg low defense carry (esp if they are melee)? CC and burst
: To everyone who isn't an Assassin Main
As an ADC main i prefer an assassin meta to a tank meta. You can beat an assassin with positioning, itemization, a good support player or by not feeding the Talon 5 kills pre-10 min. When tanks are strong they simply out-stat you and walk over your team without taking damage. I still have PTSD from the cinderhulk meta when Sejuani would smite gromp, rush {{item:3083}} + {{item:3075}} with red smite and simply jump on your ass. It wasn't even worth aa her pre {{item:3072}} + {{item:3035}} .
: This new item of yours is kinda disgusting...
I love how they said in the pre-season: we don't want AD assassin to burst down tank so lw is now bonus armor. And then release a %max HP AD assassin item
: Another case of Riot pandering to people who do not know how to play the game. I always play GP, every chance I get. If someone picks him before me I know exactly how to counter him. Lots of people are void of this type of decision making. Believe me, it's not hard to shoot his barrels out beneath him (it's really fun), it's probably the most infuriating thing a GP player will deal with. He is also susceptible to ganks when he has pushed too far in lane.
You should coach some LCK teams then, because they clearly aren't good enought to counter GP
: If they aren't rooted or heavily slowed, I find this hard to achieve.
Lucky that he has an heavy slow on his E...
: WHAT DO YOU MEAN UNPLAYABLE http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/9/92/SionSquare_old.png/revision/latest?cb=20140926025627 was beautiful :C AP: I could turn on my shield and the enemy {{champion:4}} would walk back to his turret out of fear Crit/AS : I got triple ganked and got a triple, which included me chasing down the {{champion:254}} afterwards Don't you dare call my baby unplayable *pouts* -he was gross AF but I loved it-
The last time I played vs Sion pre-rework he got fed. Like 1v4 fed. But i was playing Lulu support and i never ever seen someone so much fed but so much useless at the same time. We literally run circles around him and he could do nothing about it.
Rioter Comments
: that;s not difficult. Games are way easier to end in season 6. If you have a team that actually pushes their advantage and takes objectives, it's really not hard at all to end before 25 mins. and an AoE knock back that can chunk multiple people for 25%+ HP isn't exactly useless
If Lee can consistently get a 2+ men knock up with his ult the enemy team is bad and should feel bad. Also if they stack on 2 pixels why not just pick Amumu flash+R and auto-win the fight?
Cloud273 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=J Eevo,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0VJhTfFx,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-02-04T22:07:47.647+0000) > > Except there's a difrence between manaless and energy based. > > Also there is actually an assassin that is manaless > > forgot about {{champion:55}} ? I honestly don't give a sh*t what kind of resource they use. What it boils down to is mages (and everyone else who uses mana) have one more resource that they have to purchase and manage. Manaless/energy/whatever don't have to buy this stat and get to spam their abilities all game.
Energy is better in lane, Mana in teamfights
: Lee sin is totally the highest skill cap champ in this game
Even a monkey can play Lee pre-25 min and do decent with him. The point is manage to snowball the game and close super early and/or be more useful than a cannon minion in temfight
: SO... i want to try and main twitch ADC
**Builds** Build 1: {{item:3031}} {{item:3085}} core. It's the highest DPS build for teamfighting and gives an incredible powerspike at 2 items. Rush {{item:1038}} (if u can't afford it go {{item:1043}} {{item:1038}} ) into {{item:3085}}. This is the standard build. Build 2: {{item:3142}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3031}} core. Go for this build if you face a team that can't stack armor. Why? because you can't build {{item:3035}} till 4 items and if the enemy Mundo has 250 armor you're fked. Use {{item:3142}} 's active when you use your ult because they have the same duration and you want to maximize your DPS during the ult (your strongest point). Build 3: {{item:3153}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3031}} core. I usually rush {{item:3153}} if they have 3 HP stacker (like Mundo+Tahm+Darius). After the core you build what you need: {{item:3072}} if you need the shield and sustain, {{item:3153}} vs HP stackers/need kiting, {{item:3155}} vs AP burst, {{item:3140}} vs cc, etc. Pretty much you obliterate everyone with items (_any_ items) so just build to counter the enemy. P.S. always build {{item:3085}} because it let you reset your Q as soon as anyone die and clean up the teamfight **Laning. ** Twitch is weak for the same reason Vayne is a weak laner: he win over long trades (2+ aa) but can't react well to short burst like Lucian's combo aa+Q+aa or poke. Also he is much better when he engages that when he gets engaged on thanks to his Q. Try to use E with 4+ stack because at 2-3 isn't worth the mana of your W+E combo. Best trade for twitch is aa+W+aa+E (use E after the trade ends). Try to keep refreshing your stack on the enemy and play more aggro if the stacks haven't faded yet. You get an HUGE powerspike at lvl 6 (think Vayne lvl of powerspike) and you win almost every all-in if your supp engage and you can line up the ADC and supp. Pretty much if the enemy ADC isn't fed at 6 you won the lane.
Shonjl (NA)
: Lets be real. The only reason Raka is "Cancerous" is because everyone in league hates champs that counter your damage, with Raka being the best at it. Let's look at all the healing champs and see why they suck? Kayle? Has probably been one of the most nerfed champions in the game. If she is in any way viable, she is OP, so she is gutted so hard that she has no chance at coming back. Sona? While playable somewhat, she has also been nerfed a lot since Riot hates auras, even though they made an aura champion. Nidalee? She is similar to Kayle in she is either pretty strong or entirely irrelevant. Atm she is good but no one bothers crying about her heal since people that do cry, cry about her damage. I dont count Janna since hers is in her ult. So all that is left is Raka. So please, people just need to stop crying that she counters "Muh Damages!"
Was talking about pre-rework Soraka AKA the illimitate sustain, point and click silence, Q spammer lane bully. That was dumb and Riot did the right thing when they reworked her. Just watch the LCS (when she was played mid-lane) and tell me if that was a fair and balanced champion.
: I agree completely with the OP. This is not the League I used to enjoy, I used to love League and picking up a mage like {{champion:16}} and {{champion:26}} when they could BOTH work as Solo laners. Both were much much better before Riot DESTROYED them and now Soraka is getting MORE nerfs because she was played ONCE in the LCS instead of the usual boring mix of Thresh/Alister/Morgana. I am TIRED of seeing the same champs like {{champion:117}} in the LCS. The bitch was supposed to be a support and now she's doing better then Soraka EVER did in solo lanes and somehow she's NOT getting a rework. The favouritism from Riot is annoying and completely unfair to AP mains like myself who prefer skill over spammy assassins and bruisers.
Soraka and Zilean were the most cancerous champions to play in a solo lane. Soraka was the only champ i ever felt dirty playing in top lane. Lets not pretend the changes weren't justified
: > [{quoted}](name=Silents429,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gAXWkyUg,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-01-30T16:47:32.325+0000) > > Okay, what has changed? I don't see any posts about {{champion:114}} but here, it's like overnight everyone collectively decided it's time for {{champion:114}} threads. It's Fiora QQ week. We got bored of complaining about Rengar and Zed so now it's Fioras turn. I can't wait until {{champion:121}} is finally good again and we can all so QQ'ing about how broken he is instead of constantly asking for buffs.
You forgot the complain about Lee and of course the all time favourite Riven P.S. honourable mention to Yasuo
: No facts matter unless I want them to. Ask Donald Trump.
I'm from Italy so i have quite an experience with this kind of politician :P.
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A Chaotic Mind

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