Nea104 (EUW)
: I don't think they want to counter the damage meta at all. They keep worshipping it, for some distorted reasons, and their game therefore keeps sinking. The heal thing is just an accident. Every "sustain" and "tank" feature in this game is a fake, and it's intended only to guarantee more engages / oneshots. Remember when people naively thought that Alistar was good, early Season 8? Of course he was, but not as a tank/hard engager per se: he just allowed OTHER champions to deal the most damage. There's nothing else here, and since the people "working" on this game are still the same, nothing is gonna change (as stated in pre-Season, and after 6 months it's ended actually this way)
Well, i didn't say that is a good way to counter the damage meta. I said that their attempt only puts few champions at the top while the others will still suffer from it.
Rioter Comments
Eedat (NA)
: > Remember last weeks when people were considering new PBE conqueror as a "nerf" and a needed change? What? Like all 3 of them? People were already saying the adaptive stats were too high and it was going to be broken on the a bunch of classes
True, but Riven and Jax winrate skyrocketed. Jax is at 53% win rate and he is pretty much pick and ban in high elo. same with riven.
: Spoken as someome who has never played Lucian and ignores what makes him strong. I do think he needs more nerfs, but it's far from being a meme nerf due to how fast he goes oom already.
I have checked probuilds and lolalytics and almost nobody does max w or puts more points than 1 into that ability.
Rioter Comments
: the conqueror changes are just stupid
>and you actually remove guinso rageblade's passive so vayne no longer delete tank in 3 sec vayne deletes everone
: Because his strength is a sign other adcs are too weak. He is a stat-check for bot lane. The real solution is to buff the terrible ADCs.
Do you even read patch notes?
Paroe (NA)
: 550 isnt medium range, tbh. Thats average. Now if vayne were 450....? That'd be medium ranged. Only a few champions have longer range than 550 and most of those who go over 550 have something special in their kit to reach that range(twich r, kindred passive)
: No, we fully see the reason. What we would prefer is either a), that squishy-ness was actually given an appropriate reward, such that as we can be easily killed by anything, we should have the best damage to compensate for that OR b) we have less damage, but actually viable defensive tools so that we can perform our jobs as a damage class but not be sitting ducks. We saw what happened with the first, everyone complained that ADCs were op and demanded Riot nerf them into the ground..which they did. Then we had a whole phase of ADCs being still incredibly squishy, but scaling less and slower than basically everyone else in the game and with a more expensive build (and still no good defensive options). It sucked. Now Riot is trying out the other approach: lower damage output, but with more tools and better overall itemization (including viable defensive tools like the new PD shield). Personally, this is the option I would prefer, and I hope that the new system they rolled out performs well in that mission.
>we should have the best damage to compensate for that huh? Why should this be a thing. ADC have the long range and the supports to keep them alive.
: Camille is a problem to squishies only. If she uses her E+R to gapclose from two screens it means she missed her E stun. Which means she's unable to win fight vs any bruiser, assassin or even most of the mages. Only ADCs and squishy supports get screwed hard by her.
the game hate on this sub is so bullshit that you people started to create a different reality where camille will just jump in a team fight and kill the adc just like that. Nobody cares that she is still damn squishy, that her E can be blocked way before she can reach her target, that her damage is delayed and is easy. You people would rather bitch about other champions than learn to position correctly. "muh, adc weak. NARF CAMILLE" That's you all are.
Rioter Comments
Selec (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=AjXtar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eL0a4Owy,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2019-02-03T06:53:20.103+0000) > > Vayne is designed to counter tanks? HAHAHAHAHAAA... We are in a meta where just one 2 or 3 tanks are viable and the majority of champions viable are carries and yet vayne has one of the second or 3rd pick rate in the game. For a champion that should counter tanks is sure extremely good at countering everyone. That's because Vayne has been probably the favourite champion of every ADC player. When she gets in a good spot, she becomes instantly the most player character until she gets nerfed. After the nerf, only the ones that main her will play her.
Good spot? She is overpowered, not just good spot and even before the buffs, she still had 10% pick rate. Her pick rate was high even before the buffs, so is not like only mains will play with her.
Elohaven (NA)
: She's not as good as Sivir/Lucian/Ezreal. Vayne is only doing well because she is one of few ADCs who do not have to use crit which most ADCs suffer from. Also, still does not disprove why Vayne should not kill tanks without armor penetration which is the point of her kit. The reason Vayne is a late-game hypercarry is that for early and mid-game she's a tank buster. Late-game, as she does not need tank-oriented items, she has damage items to kill squishies too. Right now, she doesn't due to nerfs and Patch 8.11. She's 9th in WR lategame. Use facts instead of crying.
Use facts? What facts are you using, dude? She is played literally in every match up. Pro players are already playing her almost every game in lcs and she has one of the highest picks in the game. She is stupidily strong atm and your "she is not that good until late" is wrong when she takes over the game after just 1 item.
Elohaven (NA)
: Vayne's kit is designed to melt tanks without armor penetration. that's the point a champ doing their job? wow
Vayne is designed to counter tanks? HAHAHAHAHAAA... We are in a meta where just one 2 or 3 tanks are viable and the majority of champions viable are carries and yet vayne has one of the second or 3rd pick rate in the game. For a champion that should counter tanks is sure extremely good at countering everyone.
: No one is gonna say anything about how the turrets are doing chip damage? Or how they are obviously worse then right now? Or how 3/3 isn't fed but she has a huge level lead over them and 3 champions, including a full AP Gragas couldn't kill her in a 1v3.
Ofc not. Because back then you would have survived more than 2 seconds if someone was trying to dive a champion.
: > [{quoted}](name=Brumbo Tungus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E7E0y7pB,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-02T18:03:34.126+0000) > > No one is gonna say anything about how the turrets are doing chip damage? Or how they are obviously worse then right now? Or how 3/3 isn't fed but she has a huge level lead over them and 3 champions, including a full AP Gragas couldn't kill her in a 1v3. Yea wtf was that tower damage and why was she 4 levels ahead of everyone in that 1v3 LOL. If gragas had the same level and gold this would have happened instead
Gragas being broken back then is not an excuse to have this dumb meta. Gragas, Kass and some others were broken, but they were just a a small number out of many. These days all champions are pretty much "kill in 2 sec or die in next 2.1 sec"
: A mage can't burst down 2 tanks and a drain tank while her tank jungler joins in I agree damage is too high but this is ridiculous.
mages can't burst tanks? Yeah, right. Mages can burst tanks just as fast as a bruiser. Especially when that mage is 3-4 levels ahead like that karma.
: Jungle changes were amazing, as a top/mid laner
Yeah, right. The jungle nerfs made junglers gank more. I am a top laner too and I hate that thing. Junglers needs to stay more in the jungle and Riot needs to reduce the spawn time for camp and reduce the gold/exp because otherwise they will get too much. What Riot did with the nerfs was to force junglers gank more because with kills they can get more exp and jungle gives less now. and we still have one jungler per game because how dominant the jungle is.
: Bring back tank Karma.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Boards opinion vs. Reality on Lucian W nerf on PBE. The amount of bias in boards is ridiculous.
saltran (EUW)
: >Anyone else sick of this mage bias from ~~balance team~~ Gameplay Boards? FTFY
Is not just the boards tho. /r/leagueoflegends is pretty much the same. They are also extremely defensive about the mage class and you can only complain about tanks(sion and senju atm), bruisers and assassins. Even supports are off limits. "Brand is weak because he has skillshots". Apparently having skillshots makes a champion weak. Brand has a long range. His q and w have over 900+ range and that makes him pretty damn safe.
sobi999 (EUW)
: It's mages turn now, after tanks it was adc's/support and then assassins and then bruisers. Now the loop starts from the starting position which is when mages are strong. There is no such thing as mage bias, the balance team simply is shifting the metas around to make the game more fun , well that could be speculative since i hated the assassin meta.
Mages turn? When were mages weak in the first place? When we had the bot lane meta, the mages were on the second place and even in the "bruiser" meta the damn mages were still matching the bruisers. Now that the strong top laners were nerfed(jax and riven are left), mages are left uncontested and they will still left uncontested even after the ad buffs. Mages have been getting buffs for years too. The ADC were buffed and along with them the mages were also buffed. Even when Riot "destroyed" the wave clear, the biggest nerf mages got was a 25 mana per level nerf while they buffed their items and even decreased the cost on some. Patch 8.4
: IMO 9.2 made the game pacing so much better & was a good patch overall.
The damage is still at an all time high and the fact that that they introduced some defensive runes makes no difference. You get more ad than armor and in the damage wins at any chapter atm. Riot is also refusing to balance the game. We just get extremes like conqueror that shreds trough armor or aftershock that makes a few selected champions really hard to kill. Both runes are used only by few champions and Riot doesn't try to make things more balanced and usable for more than a few champions.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 30
When you will take a look at top lane? mages and bot lane have got so many things and you always worked on these lanes. When is top lane time to have better presence in game and a better balance that is not just 10 good champions and the rest are trash to carry. Top lane after all has the most champions and yet is ignored.
Rioter Comments
bQTammy (NA)
: The Brand nerfs were NOWHERE near enough
"BUT IT HAS SKILLSHOTS AND THEREFORE HE IS BALANCED" That's how people screams everytime somebody says that brand is strong. They ignore the fact that Brand has long range(his Q has 1000 range, W 900) and because of the support item, he can spam spells like crazy. High win rate and pick rate too. "balanced btw"
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 25
reading these posts makes me think how you don't like a single AD champions touching the precious mages. We can't have that. Aatrox and Irelia hard nerfed because they were played mid and were good against mages. You just want the precious mages to have all the mid for them self. While we are at it. Do you have any plans for this class to be nerfed or you really want to prove that they can't be nerfed? All the other classes have been nerfed in the past year, but mages were buffed. More and more.
: Can we get an update on the Karma update?
Over a year anyway. Lissandra was pretty much in the exact same spot and "announced" her changes every 2-3 months.
: TIL {{item:3033}} and {{item:3036}} don't exist.....
that is % armor penetration based on the target armor. Magic pen from those 2 items are flat and not a percentage.
: I won't bother reading if you don't bother reading it either mate. The equivalent to MPen is ArmorPen, not lethality
There is no armor pen in this game. it was removed. You are talking about things that don't exists. There are other things that it took its place, like lethality or % armor penetration based on the target armor.
: Most mages are gated by cooldowns. This means Armor and MR are somewhere in the same effective range. Comparing lethality to MPen isn't really great either because Assassins build lethality to get through little to no armor easier while mages get Mpen so they can even hurt tanks if it comes down to it.
WOW. Just fucking wow. He is playing the card "but cooldown, much wow". You joking, dude? Those who build lethality are assasins, melee champions while those mages are ranged with very fucking long range. Are you not mentioning that or the fact that mages are building 40% cdr extremely fast? No? well, i just did. And magic pen is still more effective. The base stats for MR and armor are a lot more different and champions have a lot more armor.
: > {{item:3916}} nerf, you should give mr pen the lethality treatment and call it a day. MR pen should depend on lvls like armor pen sure except there is only 2 magic Penetration items that add up to 33 total penetration vs 3 AD penetration items that add up to much more at level 18 AND offer ad and CD as well. Most champs getting these items are not going {{item:3020}} {{item:3916}} first items its just not great if you need any mana at al.
>that add up to much more at level 18 There is a lot more armor than MR in this game and these 2 items cost less than lethality items. These 2 lethality items will give just a little more armor pen AT LEVEL 18 and until then it needs to scale which makes less than effective than the double magic pen that costs less and is more effective early than lethality.
Ifneth (NA)
: You’re assuming that no Top or Jungle player wants to pick a tank. Plenty of them do—they’re called tank mains and have been unhappy with their champs’ position in the meta for quite some time. Just go to their subreddits. You’re also putting words in my mouth by implying that I want tanks to be mandatory Top lane. I never said that, but instead that they should be _viable_ Top and Jungle. For that matter, I actually do play a tank whenever I get top. Poppy is fun, cute, and pretty darn good.
you are assuming that tank mains are the majority and not just a small minority. Even when tanks are strong, the majority will pick something else, but not tanks. We don't enjoy tanks and definitely we don't enjoy a tank meta like op is asking.
Ifneth (NA)
: Why We Need Top and Jungle Tanks
A mid laner saying that top laners needs to play tanks. YEAH RIGHT. If you want tanks, take them in your own lane. Mid laners started bitching when Sion was strong and he was playeed, but you want us top laners to pick tanks because you want a meta that we don't like. Make tanks be played mid or instead of adc if you want a tank meta. Give up your confort picks for a tank meta and don't sacrifice other roles for your own pleasure.
Moody P (NA)
: because i'm a fighter main and i don't care about mages? >how the fuck people are crying super ironic that you'd come into a criticism thread to cry about a completely unrelated topic, isn't it
You a fighter main? Hahaha. You played few games with urgot and darius and now you call yourself a fighter main. hahaha. Dude, please. You have no idea what fighters are building. ZERO fighters are building botrk. Literally no fighter builds that item. You also said that fighters are building full tank after one AD item or two. Like seriously? Only some juggernauts like Darius and Urgot does that, all of the the others are building some hp(mostly 700hp from trinity and sterak's or black cleaver and hydra) and the rest is full AD. And btw. You never said anything about the cost of those items, you just bitched about them and you ignored the part where their power comes with a price, but hey. You are a fighter main and you sure know what you are talking about. Right? Don't make me laugh, bronzie. You have no idea what you are talking about, especially when you are playing 2 of the most braindead champions in the game.
DaCurtis (OCE)
: In this thread you're literally complaining about roles like assassins. You do know what the role of an assassin is right? To kill squishies regardless of health. Count how many squishies and assassins are in your video. You act as if a game about dealing damage shouldn't have any damage whatsoever. There's been numerous cases in the past of hypescaling champions doing an absurd amount of damage, it's absolutely nothing new. >"Where is the counterplay in that?" I'm going to say it again. Hyperscaling champions have weak early games to offset the damage - if you can't deal with them early game, yes, you deserve all the damage they do in the late game for your mistakes. >"We reached a point where resistances are pointless" Although I must say, this is a really good point, the video clearly shows all of those champions getting one shotted, and they had resistances too! ...Wait, no they didn't.
First of all, I said "everyone can do that except x, x and x". read my comment and not a part of it or at least don't use just a part of my comment to make your point. second of all, assassins AND ALMOST EVERY OTHER CLASS should not kill with just 3 abilities. There is no counterplay and skill in that. That is just button smashing. Third of all, since when are resistances useful now? tanks are shit or you haven't got the memo? and those guys are building a crap ton of health, armor and mr and yet they still die in 5 seconds. does it look it to you that resistances are actually useful, especially when most champs can kill others with 3 abilities? Try better arguments next time and try to read the whole comment and not just a part of it, otherwise you just look stupid.
Moody P (NA)
: Fighters have strayed too far from their original designs
how the fuck people are crying about bruisers while mages are fucking left untouched? Like what is wrong with you people. Mages are building luden's which is pretty much mages trinity and they have so many great items that gives them everything they want. HP, cdr, magic pen, % damage. All the mages are building almost the HP that fighters are building(not as much as darius, urgot), but seriously. all champions have similar HP, so don't start crying that "mages how low HP". The double magic pen gives them so much power early and scales so well into the late game because carry champions are not building resistances, but only fighters are a problem. Boards are biased as fuck. No wonder mid lane is the most popular role when the skill there is low as fuck and they are crying only about every other role and not theirs.
: its a bunch of squishies who haven't built'd ANY magic resist to deal with their opponent.. so nothing new? of course tho its the same community going "wElL hOw aM I sUpPoSe teW cArRy" on a shit post that vaildates their bad decision making so Im not surprised. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
I too love getting "outplayed" by getting hit with 2 abilities and going back to the fountain waiting to respawn. "much counterplay, much skill" Also, there are 4 champions who one shot the other and not just kassadin.
DaCurtis (OCE)
: You literally have the 4 best scaling champions in the game fighting each other in that video, what did you expect? And then to say - _"GUYS. THIS VIDEO REPRESENTS THE DAMAGE IN THE GAME!"_ Fuck off. If you don't want to deal with high burst damage champions, deal with them in the early - mid game when they're weak, which I'll remind you is the trade off.
Is not just them tho. Everyone does the exact same thing. bruisers, mages, assassins. The only ones that are not doing this are the adc, tanks and non damage supports. We reached a point where resistances are pointless, so what is the point of playing a game where the skill is not important and all that matters is to hit first. And let me ask you something. Where is the counterplay in that? Stay in fountain or hit them faster. That's not skill, that is just dumbing down the game.
: But how many times before was skill? Back when he was 0/0/0 when he first killed someone? Or every kill as he got more and more fed? By that point in the video, he's 10/2 and we don't even know the rest of the enemies scores in the video either. When you get ahead, snowball occurs, and the further you get ahead, the further enemies are put behind. You're not just complaining about damage. You're complaining about ***anyones*** ability to win early game, and push that lead into carry potential, Kassadin's only killing people with 2-3 abilities, ***Because he's fed*** and that Katarina and Kha'Zix might be similarly ahead. Saying "That shouldn't be possible" demands discussion on how much reward and advantage people should get for getting fed, which is what I'm trying to get at here. Yes, it takes less skill when you're fed and ahead, but ignoring the position that Kassadin is in, in the clip, is where your argument falls apart. It's important, knowing stats and how well people are doing in the game.
bla, bla, bla. "me like dumb damage". That's all i read from your comments.
: You're ignoring facts. That Kassadin was severely ahead in that game, he was fed and I'm guessing farmed too. This does not represent League's current state. This represents a Kassadin getting an extreme lead in a game, where there are other squishier members. If you want people to not do that while ahead, than you then need to take away individual power to carry games as well, and this pushes it back towards where you live and die by your entire team, instead of just how well you can perform. There are pros and cons to both of these states, but what you're saying is ignorant. Is there not skill in being able to get fed, and push that advantage into a win?
You are ignoring the rest of the video. You are literally ignoring everything else, but you just use one guy as an example. I had to say it twice, maybe you can read and understand. That's not skill.
: Maokai will get some buffs seems like..Ofcourse..pure dmg.Since damage is low in game it needs to be raised. But just..lmao..what is fun to watch with all that damage creep? Do I only enjoy times when I actually GROUPED 5v5 with my teammates to fight enemy team? And where TEAMFIGHTS actually EXISTED? and where KITEING existed? and where it was fun to fight for 20 seconds and rotate ur combos,position,deffend ur ADC/APC.Or gather their. Where da FUK is fun here when ure just one FKING shoted?
>Maokai will get some buffs seems like..Ofcourse..pure dmg This is literally what they are doing with tanks atm. in 9.1 they will "buff" ornn and senjuani. TL:DR - more fucking damage and orrn w will deal more damage, but is also more faster.
: > [{quoted}](name=AjXtar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Xjb593P,comment-id=0018000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-07T02:52:38.810+0000) > > lets just ignore everything else in that fight and focus on the fed guy and lets just say that dying from 2 abilities is ok even if that champion is ahead. everyone died from 2-3 abilities. > > IS BULLSHIT TO DIE FROM 2-3 ABILITIES. stop being such a riot apologist. I disagree with the conditions met. They’re all damage champions building zero defense. What the fuck do you want them to do? Sorry hun. Kassadin is late game that far ahead, which trades for his non-existent early game. Deal with it, bye
I don't have to deal with it. That is not skill and it should never be like this. league is a game about skill and your version of league doesn't take any ski. so you are very wrong.
: > [{quoted}](name=AjXtar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Xjb593P,comment-id=00180001,timestamp=2019-01-07T00:24:43.665+0000) > > ummm. dying just from 2 abilities is not skill and there is no counterplay. Nobody should kill just from 2 - 3 abilities A 12 kill level 16 Kassadin with a full stacked ult against a squishy Kha, klol
lets just ignore everything else in that fight and focus on the fed guy and lets just say that dying from 2 abilities is ok even if that champion is ahead. everyone died from 2-3 abilities. IS BULLSHIT TO DIE FROM 2-3 ABILITIES. stop being such a riot apologist.
: are assassins ever supposed to do anything than? how are burst mages ever supposed to do anything then? Most champions only have 3 damaging abilities in their kit (or at least ones that apply significant damage).
Is called DPS. We want had that in league
: Burst meta does not exist its called preseason
Yeah. So much has been added or fixed this season.(sarcasm btw)
: are we really about to ignore the lvl differences and the fact there are FOUR ASSASSINS. like what do you expect. rengar was was up 3 lvl, kha had rengar isolated. kat is lvlv 14 janna is 12. like do yall want assassins to deal low damage when ahead too?
yes. People should not die just from 2-3 abilities.
: Wow, 4 assassins and 2 glass cannon ranged champions being destroyed by said assassins. Won’t somebody think of the defenses!!!!!
ummm. dying just from 2 abilities is not skill and there is no counterplay. Nobody should kill just from 2 - 3 abilities
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