: ADC's, mandatory since 2009
> [{quoted}](name=hhaavviikk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LxesNQjG,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-09T14:26:28.075+0000) > > ADC's, mandatory since 2009 Mandatory =/= strongest
: So, if she's the most 'fundamentally broken champion' why has no one in this thread, including the original post, done anything prove that? Rather, the original post proves she's fundamentally good design. A 3 hit passive over passive onhit damage every attack? A stun that takes skill? That's good design.
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gfMnwEhW,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2018-03-18T15:36:59.978+0000) > > So, if she's the most 'fundamentally broken champion' why has no one in this thread, including the original post, done anything prove that? > > Rather, the original post proves she's fundamentally good design. A 3 hit passive over passive onhit damage every attack? A stun that takes skill? That's good design. A stun thats basically fuck you meeles.Oh and dont forget her Q to kite you even more.
Hyperticc (EUW)
: New to this game and idk how to beat adc's please help?
Its actually really hard if adc gets ahead(duo to crit items being broken).Adc`s main weaknesses is early game so you can play tf and galio to save and snowball your bot lane.Also malza is fucking aids vs adc`s(can confirm as adc main myself)so practice him a bit.
: > Soooooo, yeah. What do you think? It's hard to weigh in on "hilariously" weak. I think there are some things about towers that could be improved. Some thoughts: * I don't really think turrets universally just die too easily. I think if the outers especially lasted a bit longer (fewer "I lost my outer in one back" moments), however, that could be an improvement. * As players have gotten better at playing around turrets, managing their aggro mechanics and diving them has probably become too easy. * Turret damage on tanks especially feels pretty low. Tanks should feel better about taking a few turret shots than others, but it can feel over the top. Those stand out to me as the opportunities for improvement if we're talking turrets.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2GnaBwrc,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-03-10T19:37:23.680+0000) > > It's hard to weigh in on "hilariously" weak. I think there are some things about towers that could be improved. Some thoughts: > > * I don't really think turrets universally just die too easily. I think if the outers especially lasted a bit longer (fewer "I lost my outer in one back" moments), however, that could be an improvement. > * As players have gotten better at playing around turrets, managing their aggro mechanics and diving them has probably become too easy. > * Turret damage on tanks especially feels pretty low. Tanks should feel better about taking a few turret shots than others, but it can feel over the top. > > Those stand out to me as the opportunities for improvement if we're talking turrets. If you are in head of Riot balance team there would be no problems !
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=WardBaronFFS,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vubsMKtt,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-03-07T22:39:41.837+0000) > > Pizza delivery sivir makes no sense shes too pretty....Give her some like acne or something so shes more conveyed as a teen trying to make a buck like pizza delivery people should be instead of models checking how it feels to have a normal job. > > > > (edit: Downvoted sad life but Im right) Prove that you are right then,instead of saying ``im right``.
: They added that in after i commented. Seeing as i could have sworn that was pretty much 1 paragraph when i read it xD
> [{quoted}](name=Wolfcub2000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HOGEbjoO,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-03-06T00:07:54.106+0000) > > They added that in after i commented. Seeing as i could have sworn that was pretty much 1 paragraph when i read it xD Ah,k
: Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that I think Banner of Command is in a sustainable spot. > Instead, games have far less action because everyone is playing risk-averse, and the teams that are taking risks are being punished for it. I do think it's really hard to know determine how much of this can be attributed to Banner, Tracker's, meta champs, etc. From my own perspective, early games have felt similar to previous patches, not significantly more action, and not significantly less. If that's the case, then perhaps it speaks to there being too few valuable things to do on the map before Baron spawns.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G8oRAA4d,comment-id=000600030000,timestamp=2018-03-05T04:12:20.308+0000) > > Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that I think Banner of Command is in a sustainable spot. > > I do think it's really hard to know determine how much of this can be attributed to Banner, Tracker's, meta champs, etc. From my own perspective, early games have felt similar to previous patches, not significantly more action, and not significantly less. If that's the case, then perhaps it speaks to there being too few valuable things to do on the map before Baron spawns. There is no action because you made this game turn into make 1 shot fiestas.
: But by your logic, the enemy team has the same chances. So its not like its all that bad seeing as both teams have the same exact chance.
> [{quoted}](name=Wolfcub2000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HOGEbjoO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-04T23:27:25.436+0000) > > But by your logic, the enemy team has the same chances. So its not like its all that bad seeing as both teams have the same exact chance. Thats not what he is talking about.He does not complain about being ``stuck`` but how frustrating it is.
NemeBro (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ShaolinToilet,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6A9LzYXA,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-05T06:37:46.229+0000) > > Faker isn't even that good anymore hah. someone doesn't watch esports at all and just makes baseless claims on Reddit comments. He's not, that's why he was crybabying when he and his team got blown the fuck out last worlds. He knows he's washed-up yesterday's news and hasn't fully accepted it yet.
> [{quoted}](name=NemeBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6A9LzYXA,comment-id=00030000000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-05T08:34:46.262+0000) > > He's not, that's why he was crybabying when he and his team got blown the fuck out last worlds. He knows he's washed-up yesterday's news and hasn't fully accepted it yet. -Twitter level analasyst.
Namitu (NA)
: Dopa said this
: > [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=85E7TImN,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-25T22:59:41.753+0000) > > I don't know why diamond+ are the only ones considered "high" elo. because platinum is literally hell and does not deserve to have anything nice said about it ever
> [{quoted}](name=Trollmanship,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=85E7TImN,comment-id=000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-02-25T23:18:40.797+0000) > > because platinum is literally hell and does not deserve to have anything nice said about it ever Can confirm LOL
Pika Fox (NA)
: You need to make more risky plays, sure, but that doesnt mean you need to play stupidly, especially if their mid is an assassin. You can still play defensively and win, outscaling the assassin. The longer the game goes on, the better it is for the losing team. It doesnt matter how much of a kill and gold lead you have when both teams are at 5-6 items. Even if the assassin is 3-0, their advantage is moot come mid-late game with proper grouping.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RpUqxpGa,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-25T19:07:55.748+0000) > > You need to make more risky plays, sure, but that doesnt mean you need to play stupidly, especially if their mid is an assassin. You can still play defensively and win, outscaling the assassin. The longer the game goes on, the better it is for the losing team. It doesnt matter how much of a kill and gold lead you have when both teams are at 5-6 items. > > Even if the assassin is 3-0, their advantage is moot come mid-late game with proper grouping. Proper grouping,yeah thats what makes your entire point invalid.There is no proper grouping in solo Q and your midlaner is gonna afk when enemy assasin keeps roaming and kills your toplaner even when you ping him.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Then you play around that possibility and ward, or play back and safer. Your mid should also play around this, making sure zed has less chances to roam and press his advantage by pressing wave out so zed cant freely roam, or at least pull jungler mid while zed is roaming.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RpUqxpGa,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-25T18:53:06.434+0000) > > Then you play around that possibility and ward, or play back and safer. Your mid should also play around this, making sure zed has less chances to roam and press his advantage by pressing wave out so zed cant freely roam, or at least pull jungler mid while zed is roaming. You think midlaners know that they should shove wave in?Also if your midlaner and toplaner fall behind YOU HAVE to play agreesive to snowball and and try win the game.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Maybe, but i can right click on Zoe. If i try to right click Zed, its just "Hey, im over here. Nah, im here now. Now im here and goodbyeeeeee". Far more infuriating. As a support main, i can handle Zoe, and i know how to react when someone else gets marked with E. She has clear and easy weaknesses for me to exploit. Zed is basically a matchup of mechanics, which is what im weakest at.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aJ7Eut17,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-02-23T23:06:58.385+0000) > > Maybe, but i can right click on Zoe. If i try to right click Zed, its just "Hey, im over here. Nah, im here now. Now im here and goodbyeeeeee". > > Far more infuriating. As a support main, i can handle Zoe, and i know how to react when someone else gets marked with E. She has clear and easy weaknesses for me to exploit. Zed is basically a matchup of mechanics, which is what im weakest at. Zoe does not need bubble to one shot m8.
: That new emote tho
Thats how i feel when i play vs her as immobile adc...
: > [{quoted}](name=AleksaTeemo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=spRemqbQ,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-17T06:47:38.380+0000) > > They werent.It was jungle carry meta and top tank meta when poppy one shotted ADC`s i remember cait being complete cancer, corki dominating midlane, graves dominating the jungle, and then repeating phases of kog maw and mf being pretty broken. mfs kit in fact was strong enough that she saw play as support and you literally had 2 adc on bot lane. season 6 had multiple marksmen not just overtuned for month, but also regular 2 adc teamcomps in different positions. so yea, it was pretty adc dominated.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=spRemqbQ,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-17T15:32:38.646+0000) > > i remember cait being complete cancer, corki dominating midlane, graves dominating the jungle, and then repeating phases of kog maw and mf being pretty broken. > > mfs kit in fact was strong enough that she saw play as support and you literally had 2 adc on bot lane. > > season 6 had multiple marksmen not just overtuned for month, but also regular 2 adc teamcomps in different positions. so yea, it was pretty adc dominated. ONLY by GooRila.And that was LCS not solo Q.Corki was not dominating LOL.It was all about azir in the early stages(even leblanc),ryze,sydra,karma,oriana etc.
: Don't buff ahri. Nerf everyone else. Ahri and Jinx were about the only balanced champs in their respective roles and now that Jinx Q has been reverted it just feels like League instaburst is just what it is now.
> [{quoted}](name=LegitBusinessman,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Nd3JJBE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-02-17T02:15:29.561+0000) > > Don't buff ahri. Nerf everyone else. Ahri and Jinx were about the only balanced champs in their respective roles and now that Jinx Q has been reverted it just feels like League instaburst is just what it is now. Dont forget ashe.She is balanced as well.
: duskblade nerfs coming before adc and support nerfs?
That item deserve`s to be deleted.They re-worked it a few times and it did not work.
Vizulix (NA)
: 51% win rate. He isn't op. Also why the hell are you throwing shields on your adc. That isn't going to do crap against Nasus. You gotta peel
> [{quoted}](name=Vizulix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m37sEpzG,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2018-02-16T18:36:48.208+0000) > > 51% win rate. He isn't op. > > Also why the hell are you throwing shields on your adc. That isn't going to do crap against Nasus. You gotta peel I agree he isnt OP but using win rate is not the right way to determine wether champs is OP or not.
: > [{quoted}](name=AleksaTeemo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=spRemqbQ,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-02-16T15:58:11.593+0000) > > Dissagree with 2016 part. 2016 was the marksman rework that also buffed the shit out of them. youre really gonna sit there and tell me they werent already dominant through the entire season 6?
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=spRemqbQ,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-02-16T16:39:44.940+0000) > > 2016 was the marksman rework that also buffed the shit out of them. youre really gonna sit there and tell me they werent already dominant through the entire season 6? They werent.It was jungle carry meta and top tank meta when poppy one shotted ADC`s
: because crit adc deal so much damage, especially with stattic crits, that it practically makes no difference if they have armor pen if you dont combine randuins and tabi specifically. plus, a lot of meta adc the past few patches like vayne and kog maw have either max health % magic or true damage in their kits and dont care if you built armor. welcome to league of adc 2016/17 and 18
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=spRemqbQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-16T14:27:31.284+0000) > > because crit adc deal so much damage, especially with stattic crits, that it practically makes no difference if they have armor pen if you dont combine randuins and tabi specifically. > > plus, a lot of meta adc the past few patches like vayne and kog maw have either max health % magic or true damage in their kits and dont care if you built armor. > > welcome to league of adc 2016/17 and 18 Dissagree with 2016 part.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=12wJUyN3,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-02-14T04:57:39.397+0000) > > What a load of delusional crap. Riot doesn't give one tidily wink beyond how much money you are going to give them. As a company they are not the most caring. You want to see a good caring company? Epic games, they are giving refunds, full damn refunds for their fuck up with paragon. CDProjectRED, that made a masterpiece and didn't shit all over the player experience to do it. > > I swear, the riot white knights are just plain sad. A company doesn't need you to white knight for them. Because in the end they make money, so they could give a shit less what anyone thinks so long as it doesn't effect their bottom line. That is the plain and black and white truth. Stop being ignorant. Hey there, First post here on boards since I joined Riot so forgive me for lurking. We honestly do care. Riot is a massive company filled to the brim with easily the most talented individuals I have ever met in the industry. I'm sure there'll be some jaded Rioters out there somewhere, but I've certainly not met one yet. You might be thinking "Yeah, right, he would say that", but really, I'm so impressed with level to which discussion around new features is focused on "how will this benefit the player". It's 100% about the players, not the payers. In my department (gameplay systems on Summoner's Rift, Runes, items etc), discussion has never once touched upon monetisation or revenues. It's always about what we think you guys would enjoy the most and what you might not like. Everyone at Riot cares if people are angry and they care if some people are quietly upset. It breaks our hearts when we work hard on something then realise we missed the mark after that content has been released. We read your posts, read Reddit, watch your streams and we're soaking it all in. But, we also don't always agree with you, but that's OK as long as we've listened. :)
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Rovient,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=12wJUyN3,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-02-14T08:00:00.370+0000) > > Hey there, > > First post here on boards since I joined Riot so forgive me for lurking. > > We honestly do care. Riot is a massive company filled to the brim with easily the most talented individuals I have ever met in the industry. I'm sure there'll be some jaded Rioters out there somewhere, but I've certainly not met one yet. > > You might be thinking "Yeah, right, he would say that", but really, I'm so impressed with level to which discussion around new features is focused on "how will this benefit the player". It's 100% about the players, not the payers. In my department (gameplay systems on Summoner's Rift, Runes, items etc), discussion has never once touched upon monetisation or revenues. It's always about what we think you guys would enjoy the most and what you might not like. > > Everyone at Riot cares if people are angry and they care if some people are quietly upset. It breaks our hearts when we work hard on something then realise we missed the mark after that content has been released. > > We read your posts, read Reddit, watch your streams and we're soaking it all in. But, we also don't always agree with you, but that's OK as long as we've listened. :) If you truly did,you would not allow ardent censer meta to exist.
: Then start being reasonable and don't introduce your reply with a maximum level of ignorance. ADC's don't delete your team "solo" even if you write it in all caps. If my ADC would run around solo and attempt to delete the enemy team I would report him for inting. You are really just confirming my initial suspicion. Apparently you can't see the most simple and crude expressions of teamwork even if it's right in your face.
> [{quoted}](name=Leaf on Bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0ZqZ5Lxm,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-12T13:03:55.369+0000) > > Then start being reasonable and don't introduce your reply with a maximum level of ignorance. > > ADC's don't delete your team "solo" even if you write it in all caps. > > If my ADC would run around solo and attempt to delete the enemy team I would report him for inting. > > You are really just confirming my initial suspicion. Apparently you can't see the most simple and crude expressions of teamwork even if it's right in your face. Watch the Alex Ich`s clip called Kog maw 1v5.He flashed into their base and deleted the entire team.SOLO
ChuShoe (NA)
: Believe it or not, whining about your teammate in chat won't make anything better
People will say there is mute button m8,but then you wont know what your team wants to do and there is no way to co operate.
: When someone openly admits to being toxic and says they don't care if you report them
Riot members still replying to memes and games instead of fixing the game.
: Calling BS, vid with chat showing or didn't happen.
> [{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MjWXpkaw,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-02-09T19:35:37.886+0000) > > Calling BS, vid with chat showing or didn't happen. This happens a lot of time.
: Not condoning the abuse, nor supporting what you did, but why not give him the hard leash if he asked for it? You know you can do that and still get to lane to last hit... Theres also the mute button.
> [{quoted}](name=Xerath Aim Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MjWXpkaw,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-02-09T19:29:32.759+0000) > > Not condoning the abuse, nor supporting what you did, but why not give him the hard leash if he asked for it? You know you can do that and still get to lane to last hit... > > Theres also the mute button. 6 autos is hard leashing?
: > [{quoted}](name=Fairyfleur,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YekH1iPB,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-09T02:27:14.926+0000) > > I mean it's pretty much been _only_ Jinx this season, who isn't a particularly strong ADC and has a lot of love by the fanbase for her design and voice; it's kind of hard to condemn him as an adc main that buffs only adcs for that. The changes to runes reforged benefited ADCs the most. They got the most free stats from the base stat buffs in 8.1 ADs basically all got 2 free {{item:1036}}s while for example mages got like 70% of a {{item:1028}}. Press then attack is just so much better then electrocute. The removal of flat Pen runes/glyphs benefits ADCs the most since they build the least tank stats and it weakens champs like Zed that specializing im killing ADC. Also they buffed {{champion:236}}
> [{quoted}](name=BestPudgeNA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YekH1iPB,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-02-09T07:10:59.505+0000) > > The changes to runes reforged benefited ADCs the most. They got the most free stats from the base stat buffs in 8.1 ADs basically all got 2 free {{item:1036}}s while for example mages got like 70% of a {{item:1028}}. Press then attack is just so much better then electrocute. The removal of flat Pen runes/glyphs benefits ADCs the most since they build the least tank stats and it weakens champs like Zed that specializing im killing ADC. > > Also they buffed {{champion:236}} Lucian needed buffs though.He was about as useful as riven vs lulu/kog combo.
: And you honestly think that this kind of approach will work better?
> [{quoted}](name=Kairoptra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Og768aOW,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2018-02-08T20:44:01.272+0000) > > And you honestly think that this kind of approach will work better? Well,if riot would respond to actual disscusions this threads would be useful.
Raoul (EUW)
: Ah you mean when ADCs were about the same power level as every other role, had solid counterplay and were actually not mandatory for every team comp and ADC-Mains acted like the game would die about it because they were no longer the main protagonist level hero of the match?
> [{quoted}](name=Raoul,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YekH1iPB,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-02-08T12:28:23.796+0000) > > Ah you mean when ADCs were about the same power level as every other role, had solid counterplay and were actually not mandatory for every team comp and ADC-Mains acted like the game would die about it because they were no longer the main protagonist level hero of the match? You do relaise they werent broken forever?People dont realise that.THEY ARE BROKEN NOW,i agree.They are absouloutly stupid.Kog maw presses W insta penta,vayne gets statik insta 3 shot,twitch 14 seconds long stealth etc.But they were not broken BEFORE.
: Oh great... another mindless post that just makes fun of Riot instead of actually trying to have a discussion... yay...
> [{quoted}](name=Kairoptra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Og768aOW,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-02-08T20:14:48.782+0000) > > Oh great... another mindless post that just makes fun of Riot instead of actually trying to have a discussion... yay... And how many times did people try to have ``discussion`` with riot,actually bringing up facts and statistics and they still reply to memes and games lul
: Kog'Maw 8.3 W does 40% less damage than 8.2 W. Imagine your favorite champion getting nerfed that way. Something they're good at and designed intentionally for (Kog'Maw has only damage and only does damage) then RIPPED IN HALF NERFED BY 40% HEHE XD FINALLY KOG'MAW NERFS FAIR FAIR I can't wait until I can't farm in lane bc of Lucian and Jhin :^)
> [{quoted}](name=The Kogfather,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Og768aOW,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-02-08T18:04:59.235+0000) > > Kog'Maw 8.3 W does 40% less damage than 8.2 W. Imagine your favorite champion getting nerfed that way. Something they're good at and designed intentionally for (Kog'Maw has only damage and only does damage) then RIPPED IN HALF NERFED BY 40% HEHE XD FINALLY KOG'MAW NERFS FAIR FAIR > > I can't wait until I can't farm in lane bc of Lucian and Jhin :^) Because kog maw was so fucking balanced you couldnt touch him with anything and then he will just press W and penta.
: >But it's extremely simple to come up with certain changes and apply them to the game. So this is the difference between being an idea guy and being a designer. The former is easy: we can sit here all day and go "Zoe is OP. Let's nerf her Q damage" and so on. The difficult part is figuring out if that's a good idea, if it's the right fix, what else could be done, what SHOULD be done, and what to prioritize for testing and development. For example, nerfing Zoe's Q damage to the point where E+Q can't kill as many people actually has a lot of impact. It relies on her getting a W proc to secure a kill, or it extends her kill window by the entire cooldown of her Q, assuming she can land two shots in a row. It also weakens her wave clear and, by extension, her laning phase. A weakened laning phase hurts her late-game more, as she itemizes less. Also, even if it's the right action -- do you adjust the base value? The ratio? The bonus E damage? The damage from distance traveled? Which of these is the RIGHT solution? Itemization gets even worse. Let's assume we nerf Duskblade and buff AD assassin items. What qualifies as an AD assassin item? What happens to the other characters who build Ghostblade/Hydra/Bloodthirster/Death's Dance/etc. without being assassins? What about the ones who might now opt into these improved items? What itemization issues might arise from that? It's impossibly to meaningfully test all of these, so you have to take the time to consider them all ahead of time, determine which might be the best approach, and be willing to sometimes be wrong. You also have to bear in mind that things compound on each other. A 1 second increase to Zoe's early Q cooldown is a more than 10% nerf to the damage output of her primary poke and her primary wave clear. That, by extension, weakens her early game, penalizes her more for missing, and, by doing both, increases the windows of opportunity an opponent has to threaten her and decreases her ability to harass an opponent out of lane. That can deny her needed gold/kills/advantage, and THAT can hurt her and her team's mid-to-late game. Is it enough? Maybe not. But we see a lot of gut reactions of "this is BAD and HERE'S what they SHOULD have done, OBVIOUSLY!" that aren't really thought out enough.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5wt5Gm8N,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2018-02-08T19:18:31.828+0000) > > So this is the difference between being an idea guy and being a designer. The former is easy: we can sit here all day and go "Zoe is OP. Let's nerf her Q damage" and so on. The difficult part is figuring out if that's a good idea, if it's the right fix, what else could be done, what SHOULD be done, and what to prioritize for testing and development. > > For example, nerfing Zoe's Q damage to the point where E+Q can't kill as many people actually has a lot of impact. It relies on her getting a W proc to secure a kill, or it extends her kill window by the entire cooldown of her Q, assuming she can land two shots in a row. It also weakens her wave clear and, by extension, her laning phase. A weakened laning phase hurts her late-game more, as she itemizes less. Also, even if it's the right action -- do you adjust the base value? The ratio? The bonus E damage? The damage from distance traveled? Which of these is the RIGHT solution? > > Itemization gets even worse. Let's assume we nerf Duskblade and buff AD assassin items. What qualifies as an AD assassin item? What happens to the other characters who build Ghostblade/Hydra/Bloodthirster/Death's Dance/etc. without being assassins? What about the ones who might now opt into these improved items? What itemization issues might arise from that? > > It's impossibly to meaningfully test all of these, so you have to take the time to consider them all ahead of time, determine which might be the best approach, and be willing to sometimes be wrong. > > You also have to bear in mind that things compound on each other. A 1 second increase to Zoe's early Q cooldown is a more than 10% nerf to the damage output of her primary poke and her primary wave clear. That, by extension, weakens her early game, penalizes her more for missing, and, by doing both, increases the windows of opportunity an opponent has to threaten her and decreases her ability to harass an opponent out of lane. That can deny her needed gold/kills/advantage, and THAT can hurt her and her team's mid-to-late game. > > Is it enough? Maybe not. But we see a lot of gut reactions of "this is BAD and HERE'S what they SHOULD have done, OBVIOUSLY!" that aren't really thought out enough. Yes but its clearly okay for vayne to one shot with Statik shiv alone.Or duskblade being reworked so many times and still being problematic.Or supports just putting 2.5k shields on adc`s and they just destroy everything.
Raoul (EUW)
: Why is riot so biased in favour of ADCs?
Apparently you were not here during season 6-early season 7. Edit:Why am i downvoted?I just said they werent unbalanced and PRESS RIGHT CLICK=insta win.
: The problem with your flat 20% dmg reduction is that the relative % reduction to a particular class is not equal and would further harm the balance we have now. For arguement's sake lets have 3 classes: assassin, tanks, and adcs; and one focus target: an adc. Lets say that a tank can deal 30% of an adc's hp in one second, an assassin cam do 80% of an adc's hp in a second, and another adc can do 15% of an adc's hp in one second. Now apply a 20% reduction to each class and you'll have: * tanks will do 24% of an adc's hp in one second (6% less from target's perspective) * assassins will do 64% of an adc's hp in one second (16% less from target's perspective) * adcs will do 12% of an adc's hp in one second (3% less from target's perspective) Now apply cooldowns to each class (lets say 6 seconds for tank, 10 seconds for assassin, and no cd for adcs). * tanks will go from 3.33 rotations to 4.16 so it takes them 24.96 seconds instead of 19.98 seconds to kill the adc. * assassins go from 1.25 rotations to 1.56 so it takes them 15.6 seconds instead of 12.5 seconds to kill the adc. * adcs go from 7 AAs to 9 AAs so it takes 9 seconds instead of 7 to kill an adc. With this in mind, who really gets shafted by the 20% dmg nerf? Not the tanks, they are tanky enough to sustain adc hits so they wont be dying anytime soon. Adcs will barely notice the difference against themselves. But assassins have similar defenses to adcs, so the additional 3 second downtime results in them being even more likely to die between cooldowns fighting an adc. In other words, a flat 20% nerf hurts high-burst high-cd champs significantly more than low-dmg low-cd champs. And since we are already in a meta where sustained dps is only slightly less bursty than assassins, a flat dmg nerf would make playing anything other than an adc/tank even worse than it is now.
> [{quoted}](name=Dread Nacht,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ksmi3WtF,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2018-02-08T09:52:51.368+0000) > > The problem with your flat 20% dmg reduction is that the relative % reduction to a particular class is not equal and would further harm the balance we have now. For arguement's sake lets have 3 classes: assassin, tanks, and adcs; and one focus target: an adc. > > Lets say that a tank can deal 30% of an adc's hp in one second, an assassin cam do 80% of an adc's hp in a second, and another adc can do 15% of an adc's hp in one second. Now apply a 20% reduction to each class and you'll have: > > * tanks will do 24% of an adc's hp in one second (6% less from target's perspective) > * assassins will do 64% of an adc's hp in one second (16% less from target's perspective) > * adcs will do 12% of an adc's hp in one second (3% less from target's perspective) > > Now apply cooldowns to each class (lets say 6 seconds for tank, 10 seconds for assassin, and no cd for adcs). > * tanks will go from 3.33 rotations to 4.16 so it takes them 24.96 seconds instead of 19.98 seconds to kill the adc. > * assassins go from 1.25 rotations to 1.56 so it takes them 15.6 seconds instead of 12.5 seconds to kill the adc. > * adcs go from 7 AAs to 9 AAs so it takes 9 seconds instead of 7 to kill an adc. > > With this in mind, who really gets shafted by the 20% dmg nerf? Not the tanks, they are tanky enough to sustain adc hits so they wont be dying anytime soon. Adcs will barely notice the difference against themselves. But assassins have similar defenses to adcs, so the additional 3 second downtime results in them being even more likely to die between cooldowns fighting an adc. > > In other words, a flat 20% nerf hurts high-burst high-cd champs significantly more than low-dmg low-cd champs. And since we are already in a meta where sustained dps is only slightly less bursty than assassins, a flat dmg nerf would make playing anything other than an adc/tank even worse than it is now. Except if assasins hit full combo,damge reduction would barely tickle them.
: 3 things they need to do: 1. Lower the damage in this game on EVERYONE and EVERYTHING. Everyone deals too much damage. 2. Increase the cost of crit/AD items to even it out, don't lower the cost of anything else. 3. Make towers stronger to stop the 4man dives at bot lane for first turret. Buff bot tower and towers overall. From there we're in a better spot and we can start working on one thing at a time, like tanks dealing good base damage on high CD as opposed to high base damage that scales up at lower CDs.
> [{quoted}](name=AngusBoomPants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LE6rgcVf,comment-id=0026,timestamp=2018-02-06T20:55:22.961+0000) > > 3 things they need to do: > > 1. Lower the damage in this game on EVERYONE and EVERYTHING. Everyone deals too much damage. > > 2. Increase the cost of crit/AD items to even it out, don&#x27;t lower the cost of anything else. > > 3. Make towers stronger to stop the 4man dives at bot lane for first turret. Buff bot tower and towers overall. > > From there we&#x27;re in a better spot and we can start working on one thing at a time, like tanks dealing good base damage on high CD as opposed to high base damage that scales up at lower CDs. You my man,you should work at riot balanced team,because unlike them you have a fucking brain.I will pay to see you there <3
: I have no interest. Your posts are poorly constructed, you fail to address any actual point of interest and all of what you're saying can be reduced to: **Her identity is shit, you said it deal with it haha** I have nothing to say to you.
> [{quoted}](name=Triistana,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pHPhnnEL,comment-id=001f00000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-05T23:43:46.555+0000) > > I have no interest. Your posts are poorly constructed, you fail to address any actual point of interest and all of what you&#x27;re saying can be reduced to: > > **Her identity is shit, you said it deal with it haha** > > I have nothing to say to you. Oh please self peeling hyper carry with the longest base range at lvl 13 and resets with W is not a healthy thing in no way.Also sieging.
Akrid415 (NA)
: I hate silver / low gold players. They think lane phase is the entire match, they do not understand the concept of grouping, and they LOVE to chase for kills. No coordination.
> [{quoted}](name=Akrid415,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Aoeczkm,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-02-04T16:39:35.958+0000) > > I hate silver / low gold players. They think lane phase is the entire match, they do not understand the concept of grouping, and they LOVE to chase for kills. No coordination. You think its only silver/low gold players?Its the same in high plat.
: Damage increase is to appeal a bigger audience with no skill that want to just have fun and think less. I wish I did play League back then.
> [{quoted}](name=LifelessAngel,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sir8ugsT,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-02-03T20:47:14.444+0000) > > Damage increase is to appeal a bigger audience with no skill that want to just have fun and think less. > > I wish I did play League back then. It was really great back then trust me.I played since late season 1 and god was it 1000x better.
Violett (NA)
: What champion do you want to see in the meta?
{{champion:112}} and i would love to see Heacrim top with tp ignite back {{item:3070}}
: > [{quoted}](name=AleksaTeemo,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=75dvcxc6,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2018-02-02T12:45:44.795+0000) > > Yeah right then explain to me why i in season 4-6 failed 30 promos for gold 5,then i didnt play for 4 months prior to the end of season 6/pre season 7 then i rofl stomped silver and gold yet i didnt play to my full lvl.Explain.That.To.Me I really don't know what you want me to say, you're either lying, exaggerating, you got lucky for 3 games, OR you actually got better at the game. {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
> [{quoted}](name=Netherlife,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=75dvcxc6,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2018-02-03T00:23:28.492+0000) > > I really don't know what you want me to say, you're either lying, exaggerating, you got lucky for 3 games, OR you actually got better at the game. > {{sticker:sg-lulu}} First of all you should look at my op gg and see i peaked at s1 in s4 s5 and s6.I dropped to silver 5 in s6 because i didnt play ranked for the last 4 months and only a few normals.All along i failed about(i counted) nearly 30 promos for g5.Then in season 7 i went 7-3 placed s2 and then won promos for g5 then reached p2.I cant get ``lucky`` for 3 games,you can check my op gg if you think i am lying and i cant get better at the game if i dont practice for 5 months.
: "I'd rather have a toxic teammate than a bad one"
Nop,if my teammates are toxic they arent gonna cooperate.If my teammates are bad(like me) but want to win we have a much higher chance to win.
: This entire post, and all your comments, are really just you looking to feel vindicated of the responsibility for your losses. Yes, occasionally things go wrong and every lane loses. And as a jungler main myself, I can back you up when you say that it sucks. Ultimately though, **_YOU_** and you alone are responsible for how you react to what happens to you. If you wanna get tilted, then get tilted. But understand that doesn't help you win, as you've made clear that's all you want to do. I have no doubt there are things you're leaving out because it would make you sound or look bad or would discredit how you're feeling. Whether it's you not ending a game because you're finally doing well and you want it to last and the enemy comes back and wins, or just a good 'ol classic throw at baron. I'm just speculating. Anyway, if you're looking for blame. Sometimes there isn't any. Sometimes you're just unlucky and it's no ones fault. But most of the time, **YOU** will be the reason why you lose. **YOU** will allow yourself to get tilted. **YOU** will choose to go for kills instead of towers. **YOU** will misplay a situation, or prioritize poorly. And the hard truth might be, you're not good enough for your elo. And if that's the case, well then... **YOU**, need to get better at the game. Write me off as a hater if you want, I honestly don't care if you do. But you'll never get better or improve until you take responsibility for the mistakes you make, and the part you play in losing your own games. {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
> [{quoted}](name=Netherlife,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=75dvcxc6,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-02-02T06:03:43.241+0000) > > This entire post, and all your comments, are really just you looking to feel vindicated of the responsibility for your losses. Yes, occasionally things go wrong and every lane loses. And as a jungler main myself, I can back you up when you say that it sucks. Ultimately though, **_YOU_** and you alone are responsible for how you react to what happens to you. If you wanna get tilted, then get tilted. But understand that doesn&#x27;t help you win, as you&#x27;ve made clear that&#x27;s all you want to do. I have no doubt there are things you&#x27;re leaving out because it would make you sound or look bad or would discredit how you&#x27;re feeling. Whether it&#x27;s you not ending a game because you&#x27;re finally doing well and you want it to last and the enemy comes back and wins, or just a good &#x27;ol classic throw at baron. I&#x27;m just speculating. > > Anyway, if you&#x27;re looking for blame. Sometimes there isn&#x27;t any. Sometimes you&#x27;re just unlucky and it&#x27;s no ones fault. But most of the time, **YOU** will be the reason why you lose. **YOU** will allow yourself to get tilted. **YOU** will choose to go for kills instead of towers. **YOU** will misplay a situation, or prioritize poorly. And the hard truth might be, you&#x27;re not good enough for your elo. And if that&#x27;s the case, well then... **YOU**, need to get better at the game. > > Write me off as a hater if you want, I honestly don&#x27;t care if you do. But you&#x27;ll never get better or improve until you take responsibility for the mistakes you make, and the part you play in losing your own games. > > {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} Yeah right then explain to me why i in season 4-6 failed 30 promos for gold 5,then i didnt play for 4 months prior to the end of season 6/pre season 7 then i rofl stomped silver and gold yet i didnt play to my full lvl.Explain.That.To.Me
Tibold (NA)
: If you're tilted, than you won't be able to shotcall as you're needed in-game. Take a break, relax, and come back.
> [{quoted}](name=Tibold,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=75dvcxc6,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-02-02T01:17:09.988+0000) > > If you&#x27;re tilted, than you won&#x27;t be able to shotcall as you&#x27;re needed in-game. Take a break, relax, and come back. Shotcalling is irelevant if your team is not gonna listen.
: "You are the common denominator in every one of your games"
Dw you will get downvoted by those people who never expirienced this and will just say git gud.
: Xerath comes online with {{item:3165}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3020}} : 7200 gold Vayne: {{item:3031}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3006}} : 9700 gold. And if they have any kind of tank or strong poke, then you need lifesteal and a QSS, for a minimum of 2200 more gold. Who's got the expensive build?
> [{quoted}](name=The Wolf King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sbxApFNw,comment-id=00020000000000030000,timestamp=2018-01-31T23:09:20.019+0000) > > Xerath comes online with {{item:3165}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3020}} : 7200 gold > > Vayne: {{item:3031}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3006}} : 9700 gold. And if they have any kind of tank or strong poke, then you need lifesteal and a QSS, for a minimum of 2200 more gold. > > Who&#x27;s got the expensive build? Vayne comes online with fucking statik.
: Too bad {{champion:107}} is straight cancer on PBE now., he’s just taking Kog.s place.
> [{quoted}](name=wackywert,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3pVqPmi6,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-01-30T23:11:07.283+0000) > > Too bad {{champion:107}} is straight cancer on PBE now., he’s just taking Kog.s place. At least rengar is not one shotting 5 ppl.
Raoul (EUW)
: mandatory= Has to be there. I got it right, thank you.
> [{quoted}](name=Raoul,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=V0QtaT0K,comment-id=000300020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-30T18:41:34.930+0000) > > mandatory= Has to be there. > > I got it right, thank you. Too bad you cant see a difference between the overpowered and mandatory.Just because something is mandatory does not mean its overpowered or you are gonna tell me that adc`s were overpowered during season 5-mid season 7?
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=YumaS2Astral,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GxUG6piM,comment-id=00010000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-30T00:22:23.253+0000) > > I think honestly you can&#x27;t force, nor you can expect people to play at the same level as pro players just so that they can avoid snowball. The first reason, and the most obvious, is because people have different skill levels and not all people are going to be able to play at that level; either because they just don&#x27;t learn, or have no interest or time to do that. > > The second reason is that it is less fun this way. I am not a pro player myself, but I am pretty sure that the current state of pro games isn&#x27;t boring just for who are watching. I am pretty sure that pro players also find those games to be boring (even if you play something to win, that doesn&#x27;t mean you can&#x27;t have fun playing). If you aren&#x27;t having fun, what is the point to play? It is not fun being stomped, but it is also not fun either to be forced into long, tedious games with no action until a late game teamfight happens. > > The third reason is that a big part to why pro games are not snowbally is because of items and runes, that should be properly nerfed. I think champions kit also has to do with that. For example, as long as assassins have delayed burst and shielding is omnipresent, we will never see assassins being a viable choice outside of SoloQ. And as long as pro players can just funnel gold into one or two teammates and rely on them to carry, there will be no reason to not pick a tank in the jungle and in top lane. > > I think this is one of the few things that should actually be balanced around low elo, but of course, without disregarding competitive games. This is because what&#x27;s the point of having a game that is fun to watch, if the meta is different in competitive, and due to that you can&#x27;t have fun by playing the game itself? > > Also, if towers were stronger, I don&#x27;t exactly know what would happen. With &quot;strong&quot; do you mean towers being more durable, or dealing more damage, or both? Because the first would mean champions with strong anti-tower capabilities would become meta. I predict Ziggs becoming meta if this happened, since he is a dedicated tower buster and waveclear champion (he isn&#x27;t meta right now because there is no need to have a dedicated tower burster when you can already destroy towers with other champions that have other tools or are just more versatile in general). Champions like Jinx, Yorick, Fiora, and Trundle would also be strong choices, and Tristana would be even stronger than she already is. In the second situation, I just predict the meta being the same as now; because dives are discouraged, early game aggression isn&#x27;t as strong, so matches are stalled. Regardless of what would happen, I think the game could become slower paced, although if mistakes were punished less hard and scaling champions took more time to scale, we could still see early game or playmaking champions like Lee Sin being played. In the end I am not sure about what would happen. First off let me just say I appreciate the long thought out response. The players that you play with are at your level. You don't have to have Faker level mechanics in order to glance at the map, see where everyone is, and then make the right decisions as to whether to be aggressive in your lane or not. Furthermore, pro players start pressuring and taking risks pretty early on. In this game at worlds, Gragas and Zac both invade deep at 3:00. Fights break out and players get low in mid and bot at 3:30. First 2v2 in mid at about 4:00... There are early plays but they're smart plays. I personally enjoyed watching it. It's more like chess than checkers.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GxUG6piM,comment-id=000100000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-30T04:25:16.040+0000) > > First off let me just say I appreciate the long thought out response. The players that you play with are at your level. You don&#x27;t have to have Faker level mechanics in order to glance at the map, see where everyone is, and then make the right decisions as to whether to be aggressive in your lane or not. > > Furthermore, pro players start pressuring and taking risks pretty early on. In this game at worlds, Gragas and Zac both invade deep at 3:00. Fights break out and players get low in mid and bot at 3:30. First 2v2 in mid at about 4:00... There are early plays but they&#x27;re smart plays. I personally enjoyed watching it. It&#x27;s more like chess than checkers. Yeah because your team is tottaly gonna folow up your plays /s
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AleksaTeemo

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