: The **very person they showed that they flew into her office to consult on her new kit when they remade her** says she's awful in solo queue. IreliaCarriesU streamed yesterday, and he was *really* down on her solo queue prospects. If that's not damning, I'm not sure what is.
A hardstuck otp said his champion is bad because it's not as broken as it used to be, never seen this one
: It is a noobtrap when looking at low elo winrates because people don't know how to play her, but the thing is her winrate in challenger is about 45%, and don't tell me challenger players don't know how to play her because if they don't no one does.
Thats not the kind of data that you have to watch. Just search for a random top chanllenger player, if he plays either mid or top chances are that Irelia is in his top 3 most played champions. Now i agree that atm, she is not as good as she used to be, but that 45% wr doesn't mean anything the champion is still fairly strong. Sometimes even challengers can't play certain champions perfectly, and thats why their win ratio sometimes is 47% in challneger but you can still find top challneger with 60/70% win rate on those champions. Edit: Challenger isnt always challenger, a 500lps challenger is a completely different player than a 1200lps one. Just to put it in perspective between the rank 1 and last challneger there are over 1000lps of difference, which is the same difference between a Diamond 4 and a Silver 3 player
: This. Riot you have to wake up, stop balancing the game around less than 1% of the playerbase, even in challenger her winrate is negative.
Yea lets balance the game around the casual players who have no fucking idea about what they are doing and have no interest at all in learning how to deal with certain champions and improve. I agree they shouldn't balance around proplay (which is not the same thing as high elo), because we don't get to play soloQ as 5 men premade, but balacing around low elo players because they are too lazy to improve is dumb
: The data completely disagrees with you. If you don't think you're advantaged against a 44% W/R champion in solo queue, you're awful.
Win rate is literally a noobtrap
K3eT (NA)
: Irelia top suffers in so many matchups. Her pro play dominance if unfortunate, but will the nerfs stops when she is unplayable in solo queue? Also, it seems like pretty shady business tactics to postpone Irelia nerfs until the patch after her prestige skin drops.
Who even beats irelia early game with a fully stacked passive
: On a somewhat separate note, are there any continuing discussions internally about adjusting the numbers? Having played a few rounds with and against Swain on the PBE, the change seems...underwhelming if not kind of bad. The loss of range on the Q and the loss of mana restoration on killing with Q feels really bad. What is more, the extra health stacks don't feel good when you compare them with the rates of other stacking champions. Several folks have posted ideas on the PBE boards (myself included), and I am wondering if there are any other tweaks or changes that Riot is considering? -Tarcathos
He is pretty much a top laner now
Theorex (NA)
: Mage. Meta. Its a fuck ton healthier than Assassin Meta or Fighter Meta. I would rather deal with a viktor/ryze/taliyah/a sol/zilean/azir/Syndra over Irelia, Akali, Zed, LB, Kata, Rengar, Kha. Simply because, everything that mages do are very pronounced in a teamfight. You can see everything they are planning and want to do. While its extremely hard to see what akali, zed, LB, Kata, Rengar, or Kha all want to do, by the time you see it. Guess what you are probably dead. because the game is a damage meta game. Where assassins get to thrive. The only assassins that aren't really thriving right now are LB and Talon. And Fighter meta, is also aids. Because you can see what they are doing, but you will never be able to burst them or kill them fast enough without 4 cc on the same champion to stop them. At the very least with Mages, they can fuck up. Or be stopped by a really good assassin player/fighter player. As a mage going against a fed assassin or fighter. Good luck. Because they will blow you up before you can get your second Q off. In terms of health. Mage meta is 1000% more fun and fair than the meta's we have been in.
You forgot to sign, but don't worry, I'll do it for you. - Cheers, a mage player
Meddler (NA)
: Can understand the concern. If that ends up being the result of some of these changes then yeah, we'll need to correct that. In some cases we're especially confident these won't result in hard counters given we've seen similar or identical effects in the past. E.g. Ahri charm stopping dashes is a mechanic that used to be on her kit which didn't hard counter mobile champs, Akali's still less vulernable in her shroud than she used to be back when it was pink ward able.
But with Ahri it was a little different imo: due to dashes' fast nature it required good timing / mind games, and if you misstimed you would get punished for it (slighty increasing Ahri's E cast time and giving her the stop dash mechanic back would be a good definition of soft counter for me) Most of these changes seem too one sided, lets say you are playing a shield champion like Riven, Camille or Sion, and a buffed Renekton walks up to you and presses W-Q. If you use your shield early he destoys it and hits you with an empowered Q, if you wait for him to use his W first he just stuns you and uses his Q while you are stunned. To me a lot of these changes sound like " you deal ×% increased damage on this type of champions" without adding anything cool and interesting, just rough stats against certain enemies Edit: nvm, this comment was out of place, i missread the fact that you were specifically talking about Ahri, in regard of being sure that those changes would be healty, yea i agree My bad
FafliX (EUW)
: I think this is exactly what Renekton needs to be honest. I don't mind of they nerf him elsewhere to compensate. Right now his matchups against people with shields, especially tanks, are absolutely horrendous, because he has next to no DpS, just burst. If someone like a Sion just presses W, Renekton can barely break that, and then does minimal damage to his actual HP. Something like this is plain unfun. His entire early game relies on shorts burst trades, but anyone with a shield can simply press a button to almost entirely negate his shorts trades. He is a "lane bully" that can't really win lanes against anyone who is remotely tanky or has shields to trade with. Sion: He presses W and charges Q on the wave. By the time his W run out he cleared the entire wave, and you can't trade im in a full wave. If you try to trade him while his W is up, you barely get through the shield, and he just presses E auto on you and the trade is even. He chugs a potion and is full again. You loose to a scaling tank. Another example would be Camille: You can't really trade against her at all, because of her passive shield. If you try to W her, she simply AAs you for the shield during the animation, and you loose the trade, cause your W goes into the shield. If you don't W her instantly, she just backs off with her Q MS or E. And that is how it goes in most matchups with shields. You can never power through it. Meanwhile most other toplaners, even ones supposedly weak in lane, can just all in even through shields starting lv 6 or so. According to major stat sites, he is either really bad (champio.gg) or very average (op.gg). I don't feel like giving him some more flavor and changing up his matchups to be less binary is a bad thing.
How about not being so obvious and bait out their shields before unleashing your full combo, instead of adding a mechanic that allows you to win no matter what? Think about it for a second, lets say you are playing against Riven for exemple: you go in and press W, now what is she suppposed to to? Press E as she sees you engaging her? No because you would break the shield, and since she is stunned she has to eat the Q as well. Wait to use the shield? You would still eat the whole combo and in the best case scenario you would shield 2 aa. If there is a champion who can't bully people atm, its darius not renekton. Also his ult gives him a nice dps and his cooldowns are not as long as they used to be
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 5
This highly surpasses my definition of "soft counter", it seems more like a "i picked this champion and unless you are 3 leagues down i win". You are literally adding SPECIFIC features which aim to shut down a certain category of champions. Thats not a soft counter, thats a champion entirely designed to fuck a specific butthole You are just enforcing a counterpick meta that already exists, and it sucks.
: Mordekaiser rework thoughts.
His new ultimate is fine, Camille is perfectly balanced atm. Pros are still picking her but she is not a pick or ban champion by any mean
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3EO7T6L7,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-03T00:41:23.966+0000) > > Yeah, no, it's mathematically impossible to sidestep a Q from 500 range while you're slowed from his E unless you have some form of mobility in your kit. Are u paralyzed from the neck down by any chance lol? Its not MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to dodge a combo that requires placement of 3 skill shots just to proc electrocute. Not to mentions zed’s only trade/escape window is on 18-20 second cooldown most of the game cuz its maxed last. Give me any other champ who needs to wait that long just to be able to trade again in lane lol
Before the E changes Aatrox had to wait 52 seconds. Now he cant combo at all until lvl 13 and 40% cdr
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 25
Yea i guess 52 seconds is not enough time to play around Aatrox's E
Meddler (NA)
: We're currently testing: Q damage :: 10-70(+64/68/72/76/80%tAD) >>> 10-70(+55/60/65/70/75%tAD) E recharge :: 24/20/16/12/8 >>> 26/22/18/14/10 Think it's very possible he needs additional work down the line. Having said that he's too strong in regular play too, not just pro, so possible we just need to cut power full stop as players in both contexts continue to get better at him.
Is there a chance of getting a new Aatrox mini rework that would reinsert bloodthirst/bloodprice as a bonus damage/healing toggle on his Qs sweetspots? I think it would be a good compromise to give old Aatrox feelings without drastically changing the rework, as bloodprice was his signature ability and the one that we loved the most.
Meddler (NA)
: We're looking at it. Opinion is split internally on whether supporting stealth under towers is the way to go or not. We're doing some experimentation with a set of changes internally right now. Update to follow once those have helped resolve which direction we'll go.
Remove that bs mechanic, it doesn't make the champ fun, it just makes her cancer
Meddler (NA)
: No plans for Camille buffs no. Not immediately planning any other nerfs, but think her top lane performance is likely closer to too strong than too weak.
You can't be serious, Camille top lane is literally unplayble. 0 positive matchups, all you can do is pray that your jungler will camp your ass and that the game won't end before you get three 3500g items
: > [{quoted}](name=Triistana,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=FsE5FU2M,comment-id=00be,timestamp=2018-11-30T22:55:49.862+0000) > > Bear with me on this one _(Or don't... I'm just a random person on The Boards)_ > > I've been trying to play Zoe recently, so I keep queueing up for Mid as my first role and Bot as my secondary, and I just keep getting Bot over and over, which tells me that people just don't wanna play the role. > > I've been an ADC main since early 2014, and as I keep getting the role while trying to play Zoe, I find that I just hate playing what I normally would enjoy, namely Trist and Xayah, but it applies to every ADC. I've always enjoyed Ashe for her simplicity and great balance, I just don't care for her right now. Talon jumps over a wall and I'm dead instantly. Sivir and Jinx have a similar problem to Ashe, and turns out the only good ADCs right now are those that can Two-Shot you with Lethality or that don't rely on Crit Items. > > And if I try be creative and play On-Hit Trist with Rageblade and BorK, it just feels atrocious. There's literally no options for me other than go Stromrazor first **EVERY-SINGLE-GAME** into RFC/IE and hope their Irelia (or whatever) isn't too fed by 10 mins and then I become entirely irrelevant. You give me zero build flexibility as a Tristana player. > > In the end, I find myself playing Karthus Bot simply because it just feels better, and I'm going to comment on this _"diversity"_ in a moment too. > > First: It's very frustrating that you come here and tell us _"Marksmen were dominant in Pro Play a few weeks ago"_ and I'm just thinking... Meddler: **Pro-Play isn't our game, and it's not relevant to our gameplay experience**. Sej, Ryze and Azir were still played at Worlds and that doesn't mean they're good for the vast majority of us. Someone seeing Rookie go to town on Azir isn't gonna be able to just replicate that in Solo Queue. > Also, what weeks are you talking about exactly? Because Top and Mid (and Jungle to a lesser extent) were the Order of the Day for Worlds. Did you not see what happened to RNG when they tried to play around Uzi? Did you not see what TheShy and Rookie were doing to their opponents? Did you not noticed how much more important Solo Lanes were in pro play? What exactly are you talking about when you say _"Marksmen were dominant in Pro Play a few weeks ago"_? > > Second: Someone commented this elsewhere already, but instead of buffing Crit Users, you should be toning down everything else around them. It's again, very frustrating that you keep doubling down on this idea of cranking everyone's damage to 11. Tanks, Assassins, Fighters, etc. Everyone is just dealing so much up front damage, and everyone's just so sick about it. > > Third: The _diversity_ you're trying to sell in the Bot lane is very unilateral. You're all for Xerath, Karthus, Yasuo and Darius Bot, but I've never seen you support my Jungle Tristana or Mid Xayah. How come you speak so much about diversity but only support it one way? I personally hate Mages Bot, and yes: I know I'm very bias there, but all I want is real diversity, not just for a few select in the Bot Lane. > > Fourth: Crit keeps being a problem, and at this point it feels like trying to treat a bullet wound with a band-aid. You know what will happen if you buff Crit Users again? They're gonna become the only good characters Bot. Do you really wanna go back to that _YET_ again?? Insanity is often defined as doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results. It's time that you do a proper rework to Critical Strike. It's been years... > > Fifth: Are you _seriously_ saying you'll look into how powerful Xayah and Rakkan are together? They've been out for long enough for anyone to tell you that yes: Their power is heavily amplified when they're together. It's frustrating that you care more about making them feel "Special" than realizing you can't do that without a compromise that hurts them when alone. The fantasy of _"They're stronger together"_ is way too vague and it requires their abilities to be weaker alone to then become strong/competitive when they're together. Because of this, you end up ruining both characters alone for the sake of making them _"Feel special together"_ and that's just so frustrating as a Xayah player. Their voice lines make a good job of making the experience of playing them together feel unique. I sometimes joke and say _"Alistar is a fat Rakkan"_ because he can do very similar things with Xayah. He can set her up for a stun and a good multi-man knock up can lead into a multi-man snare with the Ult, and that feels good. Rakkan's kit is good with many more ADC than just Xayah, and I personally think this is an instance where trying to forcefully make them stronger together is hurting them more than helping them. > > Anyway... I can't speak for every ADC, but for Tristana (and Xayah to a lesser extent) I've spent way too much time playing the character to not feel that something is just _off_, and reading your post doesn't make think you know how to help them without breaking the game (yet again) for Crit users like has happened more than once in the past. > > This comes from someone who **doesn't hate Pre-Season** outright. I won't quit the game or proclaim that it's dying or whatever, but posts like these aren't very reassuring, specially when you try to make a point based on ADCs being strong a couple weeks ago in competitive or something... seriously what was that about? > > Have a nice day and take care Meddler. > > {{champion:18}} When i picked a non-adc champion when assigned "Bottom" people would mass report me for trolling. Nowadays when i pick a Mage when i'm bottom people just accept it casually. That's pretty telling.
What are you talking about, noboby is playing non marksmen bot lane right now. (Except karthus but karthus is played everywhere) Also graves and kindred are jungle marksmen (top tier btw), corki is a mid lane marksman and lucian/vayne are occasionally played mid and top as counterpicks.
: ok so 2 out of the entire class matter of fact i even said SION if you read the comment there is always 1 or 2 in a class that is ok just as adcs right now how lucian/ez is still ok but the majority of the class is bad
If you pretend that Camille and Irelia don't exist then bruisers are dogshit aswell
: 1st off conqueror is front loaded it gives AD + true damage and its used on champs that are as tanky as tanks at early levels with much more damage out put i mentioned playing vs fiora and winning due to the fact she played bad and even though i out played her i still lose, still lose trades. cuz of conqueror + ignite ( and her kit ) no tank auto wins , champs like darius, urgot, irelia, akali, fiora , jax all win in lane. and then all out scale. they either get to go conqueror or dark harvest with ignite. other then SION there isnt a legit viable tank for solo lanes/jungle Leona/Alistar and to a point Braum are viable in bot lane depending on match up. why be a tank if you can be urgot get 1 damage item and out damage and tank a tank. or be jax/irelia and have damage reduction gap closers and scale with CC or darius whos only liability as a champ is no gap closer / subject to being kited. is tanker then maokai while able to go damage runes and win trades ( just one example ) darius at lvl 1 582 hp 64 ad 10 hp per 5 39 armor 32 mr and 340 ms maokai at lvl 1 565 hp 64 ad 5 hp per 5 39 armor 32 mr 335 ms so we see darius has 17 more hp at lvl 1 more hp per 5 same armor and mr and more ms lets look at lvl 18 darius 2282 hp 26 hp per 10 149 ad 107 armor 53 mr maokai 2180 hp 18 hp per 10 130 ad 107 armor 53 mr so at lvl 18 darius has 182 more base hp more hp per 10 more base ad and same armor mr darius dont have to build as much defense to be as tanky as maokai while still building damage and having damage runes to benefit him. and lets look at builds and how the stack with the base stats darius typical build {{item:3078}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3065}} (not including passives ) 3857 hp 30% cdr 167 armor 153 mr is his stats lvl 18 with no runes maokai typical build {{item:3068}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3800}} {{item:3001}} 3805 hp 217 armor 163 mr 30% cdr so even with 5 items darius still has more hp 25% less armor and only 10 less total mr with having the same cdr having more damage ,kill potential and auto winning lane vs tanks so nearly as tanky while having damage and damage runes this is one example of how its pointless and a handicap to be a tank in the current meta
Tanks are so bad that 1 month ago the only top laners in korea's top 20 were a poppy ans a sion one tricks
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 30
Swain buffs? He was good in bot lane when adcs were bad but then his mid/late game got nerfed for no reasons, adcs got 4 buffs in a row and now he is kinda useless. His waveclear is pathetic, none of his abilities do damage to minions and his E hitbox is kinda frustrating aswell considering that certain hitboxe like sion/amumu/thresh/morgan's Q and ashe's R are still in the game
: What are your thoughts on black cleaver Meddler{{item:3071}} . There,s been alot of black cleaver posts lately about black cleaver beeing so bad for us from riven reddit. now that its almost pre season is there a possibility you guys can change black cleaver back to its old build patch with warhammer{{item:3133}} and phage{{item:3044}} . its rlly rlly hurts having to delay BC by 1100{{item:3133}} because we NEED our dmg . we dont need hp.
Black cleaver sucks on everyone period. It should stack in 3-4 hits on melees (except for dots) so that lucian doesn't abuse it.
: Why, objectively, would it be? {{champion:9}} 1.25 seconds fear- not a skillshot so it can't miss {{champion:33}} 1.25 second taunt- not a skillshot so it can't miss {{champion:25}} 2 second root- a skillshot so it can miss {{champion:99}} 2 second snare- a skillshot so it can miss It's not out of line with other CC at all. In fact it might be one of the shorter durations for a skillshot CC of that range. I think only Zyra would have something shorter but she also has a following knock-up.
It does damage, goes faster, amplifies damage and it makes you walk towards your death. It's way better than anything you listed
: Because people are delusional and miss the obnoxious statcheck.
Silver 5 Nasus main talking about statcheck champions, actually hilarious
: It's funny Meddler answers all the questions about other champs and proceeds to ignore the fuck outta Wukong. You're bringing a whole new level of disrespect and bullshit to an entire champ fan-base.
They haven't removed him yet at least
yeulx (NA)
: That is true.. instead Riot would rather nerf champions like Ahri and nami.. over things like graves jax.. and graves does need a nerf since hes a very oppressive champion atm
You can't be serious, whenever Ahri is not sitting at 53% wr she gets buffed. Think about Yorick and Urgot, those 2 get nerfed whenever they cross 51% in bronze
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 26
Any thoughts on Evelynn being banned in every single high elo game, having 53% win ratio for 10 patches and being one of the most toxic and braindead champion in the game? Rakan's instant 0 counterplay engage from 3 miles away + escape? Poppy having 16% max health damage at rank 1? Sion having 4k hps with 1 item and 200 cs + insanely high win rate? Alistar having 3 seconds of point and click ccs + free dives whenever his ult is up? Akali diving people at lvl 2 without taking tower damage? Kassadin being banned in every single high elo game aswell? Ap champions pushing faster than ad ones? ignite doing 70% of somebody's hps? Edit: instead of buffing every single black cleaver user how about directly buffing the item and making it stack twice as fast on melee champions so that MF and Lucian won't abuse it? How about giving mages more base armor and nerfing seekers which is obviously broken? Same for hexdrinker Zhonyas has the power to nullify entire champions, therefore it should have a GA like cd; there is a reason why everyone is building it aside of the enemy teamcomp. Why does morello give so many extra stats like hps and healing reduction and why mages can deal true damage to squishies with 2,5k gold?
: ***
What do you eve have to do once you have stun locked someone with no counterplay for 3 seconds? Your job is done. Let's not consider the fact that he can freely dive anyone whenever his ult is up.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: > Also 18 Magic Pen from boots is simply not fair. Why is it not fair? Getting one shoted by an ad assassin who misses half of his abilities is fair? Ad champs have the ability to get way more armor pen than AP champs to get magic pen. {{item:3147}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3071}} and {{item:4004}} on Nexus Blitz vs {{item:3916}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3135}}. And {{item:4010}} cant be built with {{item:3165}} on Nexus Blitz since the unique passive. So not only that AD champs get a 4th pen item in Blitz but AP champs get it with unique passive so they cant even stack it half as good as AD champs.
That's because base mres ranges from 30 to 60. Armor ranges from 70 to 110. With 2 flat mpen items you are already doing true damage to squishies.
: Thanks for the detailed thoughts! The intent with this nerf is to reduce the power that Yorick players are getting when their opponents don't understand Mist Walkers' behavior. While higher MMR games do tend to be longer, we believe that the importance of the strength of Mist Walkers at early levels in lower MMRs outweighs those levels being a lower proportion of the game on average. The goal with this list isn't to lower his low MMR winrate _without_ effecting his high MMR performance - this will be a nerf; just one that's dis-proportionally impacting low MMR, where his performance is the most out of line. If the result is a Yorick that's crushed in high MMR, it's reasonable that we'd look at buffs that would be more valuable for high MMR, like on E as you suggested. We'd need to be careful around how large we make Mist Walkers or their click-box, but I agree that they can feel needlessly difficult to pinpoint. Thought is that that would be a pretty big nerf overall though, and be fairly minimal toward smoothing out his success across MMRs.
Yorick : 1,85% pick rate 52,13% winrate. Nobody plays this champion, he is a niche pick and he only works in low mmrs. Gets nerfed Ahri: 6.78% pick rate 52.65% winrate. Fairly popular champion with higher winrate. Nothing planned. Stats from championhttps://champion.gg/champion/Ahri/Middle?league= https://champion.gg/champion/Yorick/Top?league= Let's be clear i am not complaning about Ahri, i am just genuinely wondering where rioters left their chromosomes, because this is too much for me, i can't handle this. Akali can dive people at lvl 2 without taking any damage from towers, Zoe oneshots people across the map, Jhin runs at 600 mspeed with 1 item, Alistar has 3 seconds of point and click ccs, AP champions push faster than AD ones, Ingite 100-0 people, creep block is the dumbest shit ever, in early game assassins overkill everything to the point where they don't have to hit a single ability to kill a tank, but you are too busy nerfing yorick, garen and tryndamere to fix the real issues of the game. Ban me for talking shit if you want,i don't care, this is my main, just don't ban my ip because my brother still plays the game fairly often.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 17
I have an idea to make Zoe less frustrating... remove her just like you removed Aatrox :)
: Here's a clip of a 3/3 Lux support surviving a well executed combo from a 7/3 Zed who is 3 levels ahead. Lux played the encounter awfully yet survived the burst. Can you explain to me how this is fair? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F09no6bNj8
She has 65 bonus armor and you have a fucking ultimate
: Why Many Aatrox Mains are Dissatisfied with His New Rework
Although his new voice and personality are terrible (rip wings too) his new gameplay looks really fun, the problem is that it's fucking garbage lmao, you are never gonna hit your abilities against a competent player, not even the inner part. And even if you do hit your abilities the damage is nothing extraordinary, way less damage than other bruisers and juggernaunts
Altiverse (EUNE)
: How will Pyke interact with Stoneplate? (And why it's important)
: >because they said a barely offensive term once. You told someone to kill themselves, over a game. You declared that person's entire life, connections to friends and family, and years of experiences to be less important than your last 20 minutes. You said that they should not even live, because in some way they inconvenienced you. Offense has nothing to do with it. Obviously, we know that you didn't really mean it that way. But your meaning is without relevance to random people you interact with. If you wouldn't go up to a random person on the street and tell them to kill themselves, then you shouldn't do it in League.
i love how people take things said in videogames so seriously, it's hilarious to me
: Yeh, I usually try to take a gander at the boards in the morning and then at night, during the day it's usually just cursory glances, but I don't really have too much time to write much in regards to replies. The current changelist we have together for Aatrox is: Base ad 68 >>>70 Q 10/35/60/95/120 >>>20/50/80/110/140 E 75/115/155/195/235 >>>80/120/160/200/240 The changes that shipped for Riven were smaller than these imo (5 dmg on each Q cast...there was super unfortunate error in patch notes that said we also buffed her ad ratio, but that didn't happen, just the base damage). IRT his passive, thoughts when the team had done those changes were a push to make him a slightly better champion, when the initial GU was planned to ship a few months ago. The first few explorations on the new kit didn't end up panning out, so the GU got delayed (still being heavily worked on), but it meant that Aatrox didn't get the actual large work that he really needs. It was unfortunate, but I think these buffs coupled with some itemization/future runes reforged changes should tie him over til the GU is complete. Hope that gives a little context, even if it's not the answer you were looking for.
People bitch way too much, Aatrox is fine as he is, there is reason if several players hit master and challenger with him in na and euw. Just get good instead of being annoying. Btw take your time for aatrox rework, i am hoping in a well done job like warwick's rework.
: I know all of that, but seriously, are you trying to make a point that aatrox is strong? lmao Your ult refills your bloodwell by 20% per champion hit. So unless you die into the enemy team (1v5 dive) you aren't refilling your bloodwell to full. Also you'll be crippled and left at ~1k hp at level 18, good luck doing shit after that without immediately dying. At least zac forces you to burn extra resources, same for anivia. And when they revive they brnig something useful: Tons of cc from zac, and tons of damage and good amount of cc from anivia. There's really no reason to pick aatrox right now and he's just downright bad. Not unplayable trash, but bad.
He is obvioulsy not, but he is not as bad as you think he is. He doesn't need extreme buffs, he just needs some tweaks, for exemple: -Q,E flat costs -Making bloodprice apply lifesteal -Making him invulnerable to knock ups while casting Q -Increasing his base hps. instead of 1v5 you might aswell be 5v5, also you don't really need to hit 5 targets, 2-3 are more than enough
: The problem is that in current state his kit doesn't fulfill his lore. A blood draining sword that buffs the other soldiers. A beast famine for war. In real life: Aatrox passive generally goes like this "Oh I'm surrounded. There goes my bloodwell... ok wait up I'll kill you all 4 guys alone while my team fled because I'm channeling a insignificant amount of life. Aaaaaand it's on cd for 150 seconds and I 'm still dead. Such a war machine." {{champion:240}} " Hey buddy, get yo ass out of that bench and fight. There is no time for drinking blood milkshakes while your team is being destroyed! I get damage I jump back into a yummy 200~1000k life almost every 7 seconds!" {{champion:240}} fulfills this concept. Has more mobility than aatrox. Is more tanky and can dish out a lot of damage. {{champion:245}} tank ekko fulfills this concept and has a better kit. {{champion:23}} is a better aatrox than aatrox. My point is Aatrox shouldn't have a disengage tool. His blood well is surpassed by ekko ult , trynda ult and kled passive. Making them immortal in battle. {{champion:266}} : "Well at least I have my blade that deals a lot of damage or can heal me!" {{champion:245}} : Mine stacks with skills and auto attacks. I slow them AND I get move speed. Without spending a spell slot. Btw, If you count my aoe W slow/stun/shield passive, I will deal MORE damage than you late game since you're going for a off tank build and my scaling is awesome even for tank. If you compare your E with my Q I have better range (you have a triangle), better CD, better damage. You'll get a "better slow" if in a rare case I miss it back. (I have a better slow if my passive goes off with Q slow). {{champion:266}} : Oh god. Why do I even exist? Aatrox R should be alocated to his Q. Tweaking it so he can farm better under the tower while giving him a cleave damage and leaving him without an early gap closer, turning him into a juggernaut for the early lane phase. His E need some serious change. It is awful to hit someone far away and drain too much health. A mana pool would be nice or hell, manaless no cost champion are the bomb right? {{champion:240}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:421}} His Q would become his ult, knocking people up in a big aoe and slowing them in the center, as a call to arms. I 'm really out of ideas of what to do with his W. I don't know If we are dealing with the power budget of older champions or the broken mess that are the new ones. If is the new ones hp % damage or true damage is a must. With his mobility gated by his ult there would be no problem adding some more numbers into that sustain of his. See {{champion:122}} Q bandage. See current warwick.
I am talking about Ekko and Aatrox comparison First of all it doesn't really matter how big are you scallings if you're going tank, there's no way a tank ekko is dealing more damage than Aatrox, he only has damaging abilities in his kit (120% attack speed, 200+100% bonus ad on W and 3 offensive ablites); Ekko may look bursty just like every tank, but he doesn't deal that much damage, Rammus is a tank with insane damage, not Ekko for sure. 2nd comparing a tank to a fighter doesn't make any sense. Tank's job is to stick on people, cc then, bring some utility and peel for the carries. Fighter's job is to deal as much damage as possible (trying to reach the carries if possible) with a mix of offensive and defensive stats.
: Oh wait because he revives with no hp and attack speed so he can't even fight back. And then you proceed to burst him.
A free GA with half cooldown + free attack spped, are you expecting his passive to give him 2 lives? His passive is not made for jumping alone into 5 people, it's obvious that they'll cc you when you revive to kill you immidiately after. His passive is made for towerdiving, split pushing, and fighting WITHYOUR TEAM as it was a GA, since they can't focus you because you'll revive after 2 seconds and your team can deal free damage. Btw if you save your ultimate when you revive you can full your bloodbar.
: Get mortal reminder and morello book. Aatroxs passive also revives him with no hp too. And if aatrox will be cancer if viable, then better nerf zed 6 feet under with shen's father and yasuo 10 feet under with yone.
Abandon (OCE)
: History? You mean three years ago when he was only A tier and not S tier, there were still better champions in their respective roles (jax, irelia, renekton the big three of top, highly contented throughout the entire lcs when bruiser was popular), (j4, vi, zac, elise, lee the kings of the jungle)? The only region that really took a liking to him was Europe and even then, he was not insanely contended. I can agree that he had a pretty strong sustain mechanic but compared to today, it's not as strong as you say. A loss in 15% attack speed not only hurts his clears but his effective hp coming out of the jungle too. As an Aatrox player, if you go to the jungle you'll come out with barely 60% of your hp and with no defensive stats you're going to be bursted into oblivion. When was the last time you saw an Aatrox let alone an Aatox you describe "snowball instantly out of control the moment he gets slightly ahead". He is feast or famine as you've described but has more trouble feasting than starving than many champions of today. I don't care too much if he does not get buffs, but I can't stand it when people are calling him 'unbuffable' because he is feast or famine when other feast or famine (who snowball even harder than aatrox because they actually have damage for example, riven or jayce) are getting significant buffs to their damage. Atleast Aatrox has to decide when he is going to deal damage or when he sustains, an Aatrox relying entirely on blood thirst is a complete noob. Now more than ever is the emphasis on damage being highly valued, if you can't kill your opponent (who in this day and age will have many tools to fight you with including hard cc) faster than he is killing you, you can't sustain shet. With high health costs and low defensive stats and low mobility, he has many vulnerabilities so EVEN IF he gets ahead, you can always still do something to take him down. If you want to talk about abomination, you can look at reworked Fiora. SHE HAD EVERYTHING and NO HEALTH COSTS. She wasn't even feast of famine, she was simply feast.
Aatrox has one of the highest dps in the game if not the highest after Kog. He has 120% bonus attackspeed + 200(100% bonus AD) every 3 autos. If they buffed him, his laning phase would be the definition of unfun. He could all in you with Blood Price whenever he wanted without being ahead. If you tried to trade him you would always lose since his W can give him back half of his hps without any cooldowns. Not to talk about the lvl 1 all in... 30% attackspeed + a free crit every 3 autos ( yes, his W does exactly as much damage as a crit). As i said in my previous post i feel like he is in a decent spot at the moment, because IF YOU GET AHEAD you can do whatever you want, but on the flip side, if the enemy gets ahead he will zone you out of the lane so you can't sustain.
: @Riot Spent a few days collaborating with Aatrox Mains Reddit on Aatrox's status, here's the output.
To be honest i don't feel like Aatrox is a bad champion. Making him invulnerable to knock ups while using Q, Increasing his base HPS, and Turning his health costs into flat would already make him great. Don't get me wrong, the changes you proposed are awesome, but think about it. A dps sustain champion who can costantly heal himself for a % of his maximum health, remove all ccs, and come back to life? I don't think it would be balanced. Giving him a % of his health when reviving is not a bad idea either, as it encourages you to build a little more hps, but giving him % health with W is way to much, would make him unkillable, which would be balanced if he didn't have 120% bonus attackspeed+ 200 base damage on W, burst, and hybrid damage. I like Aatrox as a fighter, with some resitences, some hps and some damage, those changes would make him way too strong as a tank. I feel like people just build/play him wrong. I see a lot of people maxing E, sticking to ravenous hydra even though his E got nerfed and there are better items at the moment. I like to build Death's dance as it gives you more lifesteal (which also applies to his w damage) and makes you harder to burst, followed by Phantom Dancer, Black Cleaver, Randuins, Visage. When playing Aatrox jungle i like to get red smite + Bloodrazor, followed by Botrk, Guinsoo and 2 situational items ( Black Cleaver, Frozen Mallet, Visage, GA, Randuins etc...) (PS: Always use 18-0-12 masteries with Fervor) Also, the most important thing, max W, it gives you insane all in potential and sustain. "E gives you more burst and waveclear" Falst myth... E and W both go up by 140 damage when maxed, but E has 8 seconds cooldown, while W only takes 3 autoattacks, also, the base damage on E (215) is so low that it takes 2 E to clear the ranged minions (8 seconds CD). Is that worth it? I don't think so... i would only max E if i am extremely behind and i have to farm safely. Arkaidan EUW http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/35700223.
: That's a myth. Blood Well Bonus attack speed reduced to 30 - 55 (based on level)% from 50 Blades of Torment Damage reduced to 75 / 110 / 145 / 180 / 215 from 75 / 120 / 165 / 210 / 255 These are literally the only nerfs he's ever received in his entire existence. Given how many nerfs other champions have had sequentially for several patches straight and are STILL problems, I can bet you it was a combination of the community's tendency to overeat as well as because of the itemization at the time that people ever thought he was broken. Aatrox is probably the most item dependent champion in the entire game and the only times he's ever been relevant is when an item is broken and in all those cases other champs have been more broken with the same items while it only brings him up to being decent.
20% Attack speed lvl 1 on a champion based on autoattacks is a very harsh nerf
: Patch 6.11
The problem with Illaoi is that to be efficient there must be 5 melee champions straight jumping on you, and in this meta there are a lot of mobile/high range champions, which you can't hit with your ult (Lucian, Azir, Kindred, Ezreal...). She also relies 100% on her E, which is a skillshot, has a long animation and has quite a big cooldown untill maxed with 40% cdr (which is still around 8-9 seconds) and missing it could be crucial. Also, there's a known bug that reduces the damage of overlapped tentacles (100-50-25-12.5...) which doesn't rewards her for hitting 3-4-5 targets with her ultimate, and of course, shows only 1/4 of her potential damage, which is already insane since she can out duel pretty much everyone in the game ( I know giving her 100% of tantalces damage would be broken [3k damage with 3 tentacles every 2 seconds without E] but giving her at least a 50% damage for every additional tentacle would be a good start.


Level 175 (EUW)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion