: Sylas Omnistone PTA does not work
I already posted about this here ( https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/U9nUyv6p-sylas-auto-attacks-dont-stack-press-the-attack-while-he-has-his-passive-gameplay ), and I can confirm that it doesn't work with normal PTA either, even though every other rune works normally, as well as on any on-hit item like botrk. To me this is really annoying mostly because it makes Omnistone, that is already a let's call it "situational" pick, even less viable.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: if you can't even deal with your own ult then you probably can't play your champ anyway. anyway this would have the same problems, more stuff for sylas to keep in mind and more stuff for the people playing vs sylas to keep in mind. the way it works now i can't make him get let's say something like blitz knockup instead of ult, but i also don't need to keep my hook incase he goes for the steal.
But would it really be such a bad thing to have to keep in mind things like that? I mean yes it would be more complicated but I don't see it as a bad thing really.
: that just seems like a hassle to deal with.
More of a hassle than him always getting your ult without you having any control over it?
: > [{quoted}](name=Arx77,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HqEXcJlw,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-13T13:47:28.737+0000) > > The point of my idea is partially to bring consistency into inconsistency, by giving so many options that the average outcome is still consistent. Let me explain using your example. > > I agree, if Ez's ult had a random with between 200 and 500 each game then it would make for a quite inconsistent hero. That's the way Sylas operates now (more or less at least). By increasing the possible pool of spells and making it more interactive you influence the randomness. > If we take your example it would mean that Ez had a random with on his ult every cast instead of every game, still making it inconsistent but taken all casts throughout one game into consideration you'd have a very similar experience each game. If you add to that the fact that extremely good spells (In your example the maximum and minimum widths respectively) are extremely rare you'd have an even more consistent experience. That's the idea behind my suggestion. > > I hope you could follow my slightly complicated explanation. > > > ps. I would love to talk about Zoey or other champions, but I believe that it doesn't belong here. And sorry for my misunderstanding of the PBE. I didn't consider the population. He would be less likely to steal powerful spells if he just stole whatever was last used, like Rubick does, but it would still introduce a ton of variables, and I still don't think it's remotely healthy for the game (this idea in particular or Sylas in general).
Okay. I see your point and I can't argue with it since we just have different opinions on a basic question (Should a hero like Sylas exist in the first place.) I don't think the problem would be all that huge. But again, no point I could make would be convincing enough and there's no reason to do so either. I think we will just have to agree to disagree.
: > [{quoted}](name=Arx77,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HqEXcJlw,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-01-13T12:24:49.666+0000) > > Again I don't really think that will be the case. If you look at the average strength of all the 20 spells in a match that he'd be able to copy you can draw a pretty good meridian across most, if not all possible champion combinations. Balancing Sylas' numbers around that should be pretty doable (After all that's what the PBE is for.) > > Such a concept has been done before. Not only that but it has been a hugely successful balancing act. I can't help but think that restricting him to ultimates will make it actually harder to balance him. After all there will be games where he is just gross while there will be games where he can't do too much at all. If he could copy anything then this discrepancy would be much less noticeable No, the PBE is for bug testing and skin feedback. Balance is not one of the purposes of the PBE (Riot says the PBE population is too small for that). LoL has had a concept of stealing some kind of spells - specifically, Summoner Spells, with Zoe, and that champion is a trainwreck that Riot released specifically because she makes hate the game and this somehow makes them more addicted to it. Stealing ults at will is going to be literally impossible to balance. Can you imagine if Ez's ult was 200 units wide one match, and then 500 units wide the next? Inconsistent; unreliable. Sylas takes that to 11. LoL is not DotA, and Sylas is a terrible idea, but he'll be released anyway, just like Zoe, the Akali rework, original Aatrox, and every other loony idea Riot comes up with.
The point of my idea is partially to bring consistency into inconsistency, by giving so many options that the average outcome is still consistent. Let me explain using your example. I agree, if Ez's ult had a random with between 200 and 500 each game then it would make for a quite inconsistent hero. That's the way Sylas operates now (more or less at least). By increasing the possible pool of spells and making it more interactive you influence the randomness. If we take your example it would mean that Ez had a random with on his ult every cast instead of every game, still making it inconsistent but taken all casts throughout one game into consideration you'd have a very similar experience each game. If you add to that the fact that extremely good spells (In your example the maximum and minimum widths respectively) are extremely rare you'd have an even more consistent experience. That's the idea behind my suggestion. I hope you could follow my slightly complicated explanation. ps. I would love to talk about Zoey or other champions, but I believe that it doesn't belong here. And sorry for my misunderstanding of the PBE. I didn't consider the population.
: Sylas players will feel a sense of pride and accomplishment from stealing a good spell. Memes aside, Sylas's ult is already orders of magnitude too flexible, and it'll make him unbalanceable.
Again I don't really think that will be the case. If you look at the average strength of all the 20 spells in a match that he'd be able to copy you can draw a pretty good meridian across most, if not all possible champion combinations. Balancing Sylas' numbers around that should be pretty doable (After all that's what the PBE is for.) Such a concept has been done before. Not only that but it has been a hugely successful balancing act. I can't help but think that restricting him to ultimates will make it actually harder to balance him. After all there will be games where he is just gross while there will be games where he can't do too much at all. If he could copy anything then this discrepancy would be much less noticeable
: I think that would be a great idea and a potential way to balance him. Right now, with free choice between 5 ults, he will be broken unless his base kit sucks, in which case he will feel bad to play. There are many Insane ults that get baalnced by a medicore base kit, if you can acces them easily without paying for it with the rest of you're kit, it's absurd. Haveing the rubik mechanic would mean you#re opponents have more controll over when you can acces their ult and by quickly casting another spell afterwards they cand deny it to you, makeing it not as free to get you're hands on powerfull ults.
Thanks! I'm glad you agree! My concern was really mostly the fact that he could choose between ultimates freely and whenever he felt like it. Though for me it's not even the balance aspect that's the most important one. I just feel like it would be so none-interactive. His ult is a point-and-click ability, and I 100% agree with that decision, but I feel like that makes it so bad to play against, especially since you don't even need your ult for him to steal it. On the other hand, if he stole the last spell used then there would be this interaction, forcing people to immediately use other spells after using their ult. On the other hand, it would allow for mind games in lane. For example: Let's say he's toplane, fighting against Jax. Do you really want to give him the counter strike? Probably not. On the other hand, his leapstrike would make him more mobile and maybe threaten a quick trade where he could use it to leap out. Or midlane against for example a Lux. If Lux uses her ult and is close enough, then Sylas will almost always manage to copy it since she has quite the high cast time, so she might want to be careful that it really leads to a killing blow. Or a Malzahar. Now it doesn't matter who he casts his ult on since Sylas will always be able to take his ult. With these changes Sylas would only be able to copy the ult if Malzahar didn’t ult him, so now Malzahar has to decide whether he uses his ult on the adc and lets his ult get taken, whether he uses it on Sylas or whether he waits until Sylas copies something else before using his ult on the adc, now not letting it get copied. I'm getting of track, but I just wanted to express the potential I see in this.
: I had an alternative idea. They should change it to be where he steals champion's Q abilities. They're still powerful, but WAY easier to balance and justify morgana Q, blitzcrank Q, thresh Q, lee sin Q, all powerful, but not game breaking
I just feel like that would limit him again and not really change anything compared to how he works now, with the only difference being that he steals Q's and not ultimates. Additionally many Q abilities work similarly, and although that would be easier to balance it would also make him even less flexible than he is now (Seeing as there are many ults that are quite different compared to other abilities, even though there are also many that are mediocre when it comes to excitement.) Over all I agree that it would be easier to balance, but I still don't think it would be a better Idea than the one I would propose or the one that is in play now.
: It'd probably make him really bad. He doesn't have an ultimate himself, so unless he steals an ability that is just as strong or game-changing as an ultimate, and the only one I can think of is Blitz Q, or their ultimate is completely useless to him (Illaoi, Zoe) in which case he shouldn't even bother with theirs, he's better off taking the ultimate anyway. Sure, there would be some good uses (Zoe Q or E, Blitz Q, Gragas E) but it'd just be way too much to load into one character.
I disagree. He would be too bad in the state he's in now (With his ult having a high base cooldown early and in addition to that the individual cooldown per champion.) Those things should be removed. But then he would not be worse than other champions. The reason for that is his flexibility. Yes, he does not have an ult himself but if he players well (again, with the cooldown per champion removed) he could use multiple ults in one fight without having to worry about the cooldown. Now there's one thing that maybe should be changed, namely the one-time use. If the spell he steals is only a one time use then it would be pretty bad, but if you, say, do it like with Zoey where he has one button reserved that would then cast his stolen ultimate, then you could make use of more low cdr things. I have thought of other options, but they aren't as functional.
: The ult is a disappointing imo. I always liked the character style where they use chains or shackles that tied them up to fight, which is what most of hit kit is until his ult which is "He steals the ult lol". It seems like the whole point of it was "Dude, wouldn't it be crazy and shocking to people if there was a character that copies other peoples ultimates? That would be so sick!"
I wholeheartedly agree with your point about his ultimate. That's why I think it would be much more fun if he could steal everything, not just ults. The way he is now it really seems like it was just made to be "flashy" and "oh look he can steal ultimates HOW CRAZY IS THAT?!!!" But if he could steal everything it would make him much more interesting and flexible. And he could still steal ultimates, it would just be harder and less frequent, making it something that would actually be flashy and crazy.
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: Idk but in terms of playing Sylas, I think I prefer his current ult tbh. being able to steal everything would make him a lot harder to balance and weirder to play
Harder to play? yeah probably. Weirder to play? I think it would be harder to get used to yes. But more rewarding to play? I really believe so, both for him and his enemies. But I'm biased, I admit. Though I don't think he would be harder to balance. The average strength of spells for him would be lower than for his enemies, who have the necessary kit, so he at least wouldn't be overpowered. But the average strength of spells would be pretty decent, making it quite possible to balance him in the end. Though I'm no expert, just putting an idea out here.
: Well even if it was a great idea, what makes you think riot will even pay attention to this? They do their own things, communitys are just for players to describe the anger for riots incompetence.
I agree to a certain degree. It's true that Riot's engagement in these threads is not as high as many would like it to be, but honestly the negativity and level of complaint is often times so high that a normal discussion isn't very likely, so I can understand that they don't want to engage with comments that sound like "OMG Riot you r%%%%%s you don't care Sylas is op pls nerf you fucking useless company!" I don't expect things to change, but I would still like to talk about it. I have thought about how this could work, and I feel like it's quite possible, maybe even easier to balance than if he could only steal ultimates. I'm not angry, it's just not the thing I expected.
Rioter Comments
Zerenza (NA)
: I think with his ultimate you'll have to really think of which one you want to take. Not because he has a high cooldown himself (Obviously) but because that persons ultimate cooldown will be the cooldown until you can steal it again. Sure there are plenty of OP ultimate's he can steal and for example i think that Transformation ultimates should be off-limits to him. But when are you going to see, say, Sejuanni and Amumu on the same team, Xin Zhao, Nasus or Jarvan on the same team. He can abuse the hell out of some ultimates but plenty aren't very good on him, i certainly think that Jax, Tryndamere and Nasus ultimate are OP AF on him because their just straight up stat's or an "I can't die button" but then we look at champions like these. {{champion:39}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:498}} He can't use any of their ultimates because they're linked to other abilities in the kit. And while plenty of champions have really strong ultimates that he can take, plenty also have those ultimates linking with how they play and their kit is the only thing that makes them work.
I agree that you have to think about what ult you use when, but I can only repeat my point that I think it would be so much better if he could only steel the last spell an enemy used. I just think that, the way he is now, playing against him would feel so bad since there’s no way to stop him from taking your ult other than to stay out of range.
Arx77 (EUW)
: My biggest problem with the champion right now is... why only ultimates? I know bringing DotA up here is the flame magnet number one but this ult is very simmilar to Rubick who steals the last spell an enemy used. Wouldn’t that be much more fun and balanced? Not only would that allow your enemy to play around you, but it would also require good positioning and timing. Not only that but it would make the individual champion cooldown obsolete as a result. Additionally it would allow for a much more flexible champion who would have to improvise when stealing a “mediocre” spell. Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t help but feel that allowing him to only take ultimates is a very bad choice which leads to a much less interactive, less skill based and less interesting champion over all. Of course then his cooldown Level one shouldn’t be as high, maybe 20-30 seconds I don’t know, but allow him to be more flexible with the spells he uses while giving his opponents reliable options to play around him.
I agree that you have to think about what ult you use when, but I can only repeat my point that I think it would be so much better if he could only steel the last spell an enemy used. I just think that, the way he is now, playing against him would feel so bad since there’s no way to stop him from taking your ult other than to stay out of range.
Dynikus (NA)
: Played Sylas on pbe. Riot, are you feeling okay?
My biggest problem with the champion right now is... why only ultimates? I know bringing DotA up here is the flame magnet number one but this ult is very simmilar to Rubick who steals the last spell an enemy used. Wouldn’t that be much more fun and balanced? Not only would that allow your enemy to play around you, but it would also require good positioning and timing. Not only that but it would make the individual champion cooldown obsolete as a result. Additionally it would allow for a much more flexible champion who would have to improvise when stealing a “mediocre” spell. Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t help but feel that allowing him to only take ultimates is a very bad choice which leads to a much less interactive, less skill based and less interesting champion over all. Of course then his cooldown Level one shouldn’t be as high, maybe 20-30 seconds I don’t know, but allow him to be more flexible with the spells he uses while giving his opponents reliable options to play around him.

Arx77

Level 246 (EUW)
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