: So, Normal Draft...
Counter Suggestion: Don't launch flex. Useless queue compared to normal draft
Meddler (NA)
: If plants flop and we can't find a way to make them work we'll pull them. Can understand the concerns about them so far, would really like to talk a bunch more about them as well once you folks have had a chance to see them in action on the PBE. There's quite a bit of stuff to them we think makes a lot more sense once you've seen it in game than it does when first reading about it on paper. The randomness to them for example is pretty heavily controlled: * They spawn on one of a few pre-determined possible spawn points for their type of plant, each picked to avoid abuse cases and make it fairly intuitive where you'll find them. * Their spawning timing's similarly controlled (every 90-110s sort of thing, not full random). They also won't spawn at all in some circumstances (e.g. before/during first clears for example) * There are some strict fairness controls on them to ensure they don't meaningfully favor one side of the map over the other (should get generally equal plant spawns across the two sides of the map over a period of time) They're also nowhere near as frequent, or obtrusive, as some people have worried they'll be. As a jungler you'll probably consider personally interact with a plant every minute or so. This isn't a system that'll be constantly demanding your attention, or dictating your major choices, more one you'll take advantage of occasionally. For what it's worth we've had a bunch of people visit the offices to playtest pre-season changes here over the past month or so, some of them regular players, some of them Pros. Feedback on plants has generally been pretty good, with some good suggestions for improvement as well that we've either incorporated or are working on. It's certainly a system though that we're expecting will, at a minimum, need some follow up tuning and support, and one that could need more significant changes if it doesn't work as hoped. Talking about all that should get a lot easier as well once stuff's on the PBE next week too as above. In the meantime though if there are details you'd like to know please do ask though, would love to talk about them.
So what you are saying is that they are mostly irrelevant and because you don't know where they are, it's just gonna feel like shit every time someone runs away from you because of one? Do you guys even think before you make these changes? Also, what the hell was with Fearless's post? It made them seem completely retarded while everything we have heard since just make them sound irrelevant
Lyte (NA)
: Let’s talk about dynamic queues and ranked play
My biggest concern is that there are two goals being aimed at with ranked dynamic queues: * The goal of playing ranked (and being able to compare yourself to other players by extension) * The goal of playing with your friends I believe these two are mutually exclusive (outside of ranked 5's of course, but in there, you compare your TEAM with other teams and not your team with solo players). **Measuring skills, solo vs teams, in a trading card game** I have done some statistics and measured elo ratings for a well sized population in another game (yugioh, around 200 players). When comparing single players with a system like that, it is very quickly possible to determine their skills. We ran two "leagues", one for solo play and one of tag team dueling. Our seasons lasted a month after which everyone was reset. 1500 Elo was the standard. During one of the seasons, I asked a good player (2403 rating in the previous season) to play with a "poor" player (around 1100 rating in the previous season) in the tag team league for a season. Their individual ranks were around the same for that season (the good player dropped slightly, but not much), but their "ranked team" ended up at 1927 rating. This was not an accurate reading of either player's skill level, but as they only played together in that league, it was impossible to determine where each of them were. If you compared the low-placed player with the people he played with in the solo league, he looked to be head and shoulders above them (like bronze vs plat above them), but his actual skill wasn't anywhere near that; he was just being carried. **Dynamic Queue in Heroes of the Storm** In Heroes of the Storm they used to have dynamic queue, but honestly, it just wasn't working. There were several reasons for this: The premades rose insanely high, far higher than the individual players were fit for and the second they no longer played with their premade they were a huge deficit for their team. I have friends who, before the reset and removal, were ranked around rank 1-4, who can't get below rank 20 when they only have duo queue. This, apart from meaning their rank did not reflect their skill level, meant that there were fights that were hugely imbalanced because the match making had no way to account for the MMR of the player not being valid. All harassment issues aside (and yes, the 5th player when there was a 4 man premade did face quite a bit of harassment), there was a different problem for the solo player in a 4 man premade; They hardly got a say in what the team did. You might say "Oh, but you don't do that in solo queue at the moment either", which might be true, but neither does the rest of your team. But when the rest of your team is on skype/VT/Whatever together, they can plan, discuss and coordinate without you. We all know that ganks work best when well coordinated and at high levels of play, this can be done wordlessly with 2 or 3 pings. Not so much at lower elos. Hands on your hearts, junglers who play with your friends at bronze, silver, gold level; How much more likely are you to gank the lane your premade is in than another lane, if both lanes are doing equal? Now imagine only the top laner is not on your team. He is the only one you can't coordinate your ganks with at the same level as you can with the others. The last problem was the frequency with which players got matched in a 4-5 man premade vs all solo queue. These games were no fun, and usually stupidly quick stomps. You say you will prevent this in 95 % of the cases, and that number is still too low to me. That's 5 % almost guaranteed win for the premades by default. **Suggestions** Rather than looking to destroy the idea of ranked meaning anything about the player's skill, how about we look to improve ranked 5 man instead? I agree that the current system is far too rigid and has way too many problems, but I have an alternative solution, because Heroes of the Storm actually fixed it, imo. Their ranked system has two queues: * Ranked solo/duo * Ranked team How is this different from how League does it at the moment, you might ask. The difference is that you don't make a team to play ranked teams. You just group up, press play and then it finds you a match. You then have a rank, not for a specific team, but for your skill in teams. So, if I have 4 friends (A, B, C and D), we can just go play a few games of ranked team. We then get a rank of, let's say... Silver 2. Then B has to leave, but another guy E asks if he can play. We then invite him, and go play team league without any hassle at all. His and our ranks are combined to make a MMR (like dynamic queue would do it) and we are then matched with someone approximately equal. No hassle, no great big barrier of entry. edit: Just a small extra question for Lyte: Have you considered that asking players who are playing ranked at the moment is not a good indicator? People playing ranked at the moment is probably people excited with the new system while many solo players might skip out on it, hoping it will be changed back soon.
: I like playing with friends and I like ranked, so I will ask a bunch of equally valid questions to you: Do people have to play against a random group of 5 to enjoy the game more? Why do you want incentives to make more people play solo? why not let them play with however many teammates they want to play with and who they want to play it with? why should there be a difference in terms of gaming experience between playing with your friends on normal or ranked? If I have 3 friends on why should I not be able to play ranked with them? Does you wanting to queue solo (which you can in this system) mean that I shouldn't be able to queue with 3 or 4 friends? Why do your desires take precedence over mine?
The idea if ranked is to be able to compare yourself to other players. That is the main incentive to play ranked. Playing with your friends is a social experience (and I think it is great). But the two are mutually exclusive. You can't both "play with your friends" and have an accurate measurement of the individual player's skill. When you have 4 or 5 man premades in ranked (or even just 2 man premades, though the problem is smaller), it becomes impossible to properly measure each individual's skill level. To answer your questions: **Do people have to play against a random group of 5 to enjoy the game more?** No, they need to do that to have a fair game (which does make the game more enjoyable). It is also the only way to measure your skill. **Why do you want incentives to make more people play solo?** I don't think he actualy said that. And I definitely don't want that. I would prefer that and ranked 5 mans (and probably duo queue) to be the only options. ** why not let them play with however many teammates they want to play with and who they want to play it with?** Because that ruins the entire point of having a ranked system. If you can't rank players by their skill with it, then why have it in the first place? ** why should there be a difference in terms of gaming experience between playing with your friends on normal or ranked? If I have 3 friends on why should I not be able to play ranked with them?** I think I already answered this. Because mathematically and statistically, it is impossible to measure your skill in a situation like this. Unless your rank starts being dependant on KDA, CS or similar, it is just not possible (and please, don't let that be a thing) *Does you wanting to queue solo (which you can in this system) mean that I shouldn't be able to queue with 3 or 4 friends?** Well, because your rank will be heavily inflated (as we saw in HotS), and not useful for any comparison, making the ranked system useless. When your rank doesn't have much to do with your skill level, then why have it there? **Why do your desires take precedence over mine?* Because you wanting to play ranked and be able to compare yourself to others and wanting to play with your friends are mutually exclusive goals. Different queues for different goals.
Mirross (NA)
: If you spend zero dollars and earn chests and keys then you will be able to get skins and other cosmetic items that you could never get before without spending money.
I have a question about the quantity. I assume you are still fine tuning, but imagine I want standard price skin (975-1300 RP). How many chests would I have to realistically open in order to get that skin?
: {{champion:41}} 's Parrrley. {{champion:86}} 's Judgement. Arguably {{champion:236}} 's passive. ... What else?
MF Ult? Though it's not big crits, but up to a 20 % damage increase just from building crit, which works perfect for your main damage output as well.
Fearless (NA)
: Preseason is currently our best window to trying a lot of dramatic changes. We don't impact ranked or pro play, so we can really shake up the game and push it towards significantly new space. We totally go into this work knowing some people will be pretty resistant to change. It's ok. Players love this game a lot, and some of them don't want it to change, even if we believe it will be much for the better.
I have a small question about that. I get that from mid November to mid January usually is your sweet spot for testing out new things, but with this many changes, how do you tell which changes had which effects? For instance, did the new AD itemization push AD champions heavy into favor which made them outshine AP or was it the AP cost increases? For smaller things like individual champion balance (Yasuo and Graves, for instance) it can be easy to target the problems, but in the grander scheme, won't it be difficult to discover what has which effect?
: We generally put global gold/effects on objectives that we want teams to focus on. The motivation is to make killing high value enemies more of a team objective.
That seems slightly counter-intuitive to me though. If you keep it contained to the people involved in the kills, then it becomes a team effort to kill that person; everyone has interest in helping to kill him/her. Now on the other hand, you get rewarded for helping with an "objective" despite not helping on it. Is it just me or isn't that a bit backwards? I really like the sentiment, but it just seems like an weird way to do it to me.

Asylum Archfiend

Level 30 (EUW)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion