: People are mad she’s used by him and they’re mad she left him to die lol
> [{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=xcrR2bEH,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-07-11T01:38:50.888+0000) > > People are mad she’s used by him and they’re mad she left him to die lol Why wouldn't he use her? She is a stupid naive princess who actually blurted out "Yeah, you've been treated as a service dog and then imprisoned for the rest of your life, but you have no idea how hard it is for **me** to live free!" and kept spewing "I hope you find light" BS. To him it was painfully obvious that this girl is stuck in her ivory tower and would never do anything to get out of her comfy little life - even if it means standing up for someone and risking her status. I would even understand it if he in fact revealed her as a mage before the Demacian crowd just to give her the taste of what it means to be a mage without rich family bribing all the suspicions away.
: [Spoilers] Lux: Issue Nr. 3 - Feedback, Discussion and Questions
I'm amazed at how naive and dumb they made her. In the end she was ready to let her friend die to keep her ass safe.
: Can we get a VO Remake roadmap? / What champions need a VO update?
: Kai'sa looks just fine. Noone's complaining about her dad jumping into the void shirtless but her having cleavage is somehow ruining her character. The cleavage is optional even. The main reason it's there is to have her read as a human still. Riot explained that, would you rather have had the void suit take on LB's outfit's shape? You can be dissapointed you got a survivor instead of a 3rd void corrupted champ but i honestly don't see what's supposedly wrong with kai'sa.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x419E12T,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-06-08T23:31:59.465+0000) > > Kai'sa looks just fine. Noone's complaining about her dad jumping into the void shirtless but her having cleavage is somehow ruining her character. The cleavage is optional even. When I used this argument people started telling me that nobody is attracted to **a naked muscled torso** or that his mask totally ruins his sex appeal. https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/bodybuilder-posing-skull-mask-450w-710796016.jpg
: Wow it's like I did actually read the story and noticed how some random guy was absolutely terrified of this sexy model because she was wearing a power ranger outfit.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x419E12T,comment-id=0004000000030000,timestamp=2019-06-09T09:59:16.406+0000) > > Wow it's like I did actually read the story and noticed how some random guy was absolutely terrified of this sexy model because she was wearing a power ranger outfit. https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UKY69xUxfEk/Wp7VTh2Y7II/AAAAAAAA6bc/dmZ9H4rzFcU27mHcjRJq_PdrZbzbJlelQCLcBGAs/s1600/5.jpg * guy falls underground * he sees monsters * he knows he is fucked * something humanoid approaches him * it has a human face People here "lAwL wHy wOuLd hE bE sCaReD sHe hAs BEWBZ!" {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Zeanix (OCE)
: What Qiyana should've been
They try this and they will be buried under cultural appropriation complaints. People have been giving a huge stink whenever Overwatch champs got tribal-themed skins. Better safe than sorry.
Arakadia (NA)
: These aren't real people. If you make a character whose visual identity (which extends into their personality and backstory) is sexy, of course I am going to call them titty babes. You sound like the people who claim wearing nothing but a thong in combat is empowering or that I am the one sexualizing characters who were designed to be sexy. Now, considering that you've turned to blind insults such as me needing therapy for having an alternative opinion, I'm going to assume you have no arguments left. Not that your previous arguments had value, but at least there was something to respond to.
> [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=u5EBkMs6,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-09T05:38:23.728+0000) > > These aren't real people. If you make a character whose visual identity (which extends into their personality and backstory) is sexy, of course I am going to call them titty babes. If you know that they are not real people, why are you so fixated on the sexual part? Your only criticism revolves around the hypothetical arousal of other players. > You sound like the people who claim wearing nothing but a thong in combat is empowering or that I am the one sexualizing characters who were designed to be sexy. We are not talking about thongs here (also if a male champ wearing a thong was released, people won't bat an eyelash no matter how illogical it looks like). The new champ's design is pretty much tame. It's not revealing, it's not provocative - at least for mentally sound people. What's the crime of the new champ? Her shoulders not being covered? > Now, considering that you've turned to blind insults such as me needing therapy for having an alternative opinion, I'm going to assume you have no arguments left. Not that your previous arguments had value, but at least there was something to respond to. You started insulting other people the moment you came in this thread. Two can play this game.
Arakadia (NA)
: At this point I'm pretty sure your stalking my profile considering you responded to me specifically on multiple posts and refer to specific things such as all females being like Illaoi or wanting women to wear burqas, both of which I specifically mentioned I did not want. These are not real women, they are pieces of art that can be criticize. This is all about character design (I'm literally agnostic and totally support individual and gender expression, I think sexy is great IRL) and your running out of insults clearly.
> [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=UpFImBkf,comment-id=000100000002000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-09T05:42:17.373+0000) > > At this point I'm pretty sure your stalking my profile considering you responded to me specifically on multiple posts and refer to specific things such as all females being like Illaoi or wanting women to wear burqas, both of which I specifically mentioned I did not want. Stupidity is very hard to miss. You just happened to be its main source lately. > These are not real women, they are pieces of art that can be criticize. This is all about character design (I'm literally agnostic and totally support individual and gender expression, I think sexy is great IRL) and your running out of insults clearly. You fail to provide your perfect idea of design and proceed straight to accusing people of being perverts. Given how you said Riven of all champions is always dressed provocatively in all her skins, your judgment about how a decent female design must look is anything **but** credible. Ffs, I too find Qiyana's design lacking, but because her attitude and general posh look doesn't combine with her element powers. However whenever I see "she showed some shoulder, *gasp!*" criticism or "I don't mind conventionally attractive female characters as long as they are sluts and seductresses {{champion:28}} because that what fits them" criticism, I see a load of BS.
: If we don't get a fat girl champion soon TB Skyen might have a heart attack.
> [{quoted}](name=StonePlatypus,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=EAhB9p20,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-06-08T12:26:05.465+0000) > > If we don't get a fat girl champion soon TB Skyen might have a heart attack. His fat fetish is his problem. {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
Arakadia (NA)
: Thanks for the strawman fallacy but believe it or not, _characters are not real people and should not be treated as such._ Now I know that might be uncomfortable the next time your drooling over one but for good character artists they use sexual appeal as a tool to convey character not as a default.
> [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=u5EBkMs6,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-08T23:31:46.605+0000) > > Thanks for the strawman fallacy but believe it or not, _characters are not real people and should not be treated as such._ Now I know that might be uncomfortable the next time your drooling over one but for good character artists they use sexual appeal as a tool to convey character not as a default. You are the one who keeps using derogatory terms to women who are not built like Illaoi, so it looks like the one having a problem with a boner and drooling is you and you need therapy.
Arakadia (NA)
: I'm sorry I'm more interested in character design than boob sizes. I suppose this kind of response suggests you realize I am reasonable but you don't want to accept it?
> [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=UpFImBkf,comment-id=0001000000020000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-08T23:29:01.734+0000) > > I'm sorry I'm more interested in character design than boob sizes. I suppose this kind of response suggests you realize I am reasonable but you don't want to accept it? You are not interested in characters. You only want to insult women who are not wearing a burqa, but pretend that it's all about character design.
Arakadia (NA)
: Nothing is wrong with having attractive characters. Evelynn, Ahri, Xayah, they are all wonderful designs! Nobody is asking for a fat ugly incel. Nobody. Get that out of your head because too often people think I want a 400 pound muscle lady in a burqa. That is the opposite extreme. What I want is variation in body type (not all Illaoi, but also not all Kai'sa) and body types that are appropriate to their character (Kai'sa does not look physically capable but she should). Waifus, although extremely more frequent and significantly more sexualized than husbandos, are great. Most people can enjoy an attractive character. But when character designs like Kai'sa's are weak because they are pandering to boners, that is where I draw the line.
> [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=UpFImBkf,comment-id=00010000000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-08T20:40:16.389+0000) > > Nothing is wrong with having attractive characters. Evelynn, Ahri, Xayah, they are all wonderful designs! > > Nobody is asking for a fat ugly incel. Nobody. Get that out of your head because too often people think I want a 400 pound muscle lady in a burqa. That is the opposite extreme. You call women with breasts that are more than A-size ** titty babes**. Sit down.
Arakadia (NA)
: Gangplank is a grungey monster of a human being with a missing arm. Malzahar looks fucked up and literally has a third eye. We cannot see almost any part of his body except for the parts that are fucked up. Ekko is like 16, and literally not sexualized. Master Hi has his whole body shape obscured and a huge mask over his face except for one skin. That isn't anything like Riven who is hot in every skin and always revealing. Twisted Fate has an attractive face but that is it and it makes sense with his gambler/player theme. If he were a female he'd have his body type be sexy too.
> [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=UpFImBkf,comment-id=0001000000090000,timestamp=2019-06-07T18:36:16.528+0000) > > That isn't anything like Riven who is hot in every skin and always revealing. https://i.imgur.com/95wOWdT.gif?1 > anything like Riven https://images2.alphacoders.com/572/572726.jpg > hot in every skin https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_912,h_516,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape/cover/sport/5b7f01942256cf10ac000001.jpeg http://pm1.narvii.com/6279/8b2afd2fcfd27e72a4d2c83004adbd36ebee246c_hq.jpg > and always revealing https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=https://news-a.akamaihd.net/public/images/pages/2018/may/pulsefire2018/img/pfr-bundle.jpg > always https://i.etsystatic.com/12686085/r/il/a656ba/1371001038/il_794xN.1371001038_8rse.jpg > revealing https://www.mobafire.com/images/champion/skins/landscape/riven-championship.jpg https://giphy.com/gifs/part-generation-teenagers-H4TJwLNt8z8hW
Arakadia (NA)
: I don't think you do. People want variety in body types and accurate character designs. That means females whose lore says they aren't waifus, should not look like waifus. That means not every female who is humanoid should be a waifu. That also means not every female should be an Illaoi. If you understood what they were saying and didn't get hung up on "muh oversexualized", you should realize that any reasonable person doesn't want every female to be a masculine 400 pound muscle lady wearing a burqa. There is a loud minority that honestly just does not want any titty babes, but the reason there is lashback every time a titty babe comes out is because in cases like Kai'sa's it is totally misplaced. Notice that there was significantly less lashback for Evelynn's VGU who is totally the waifu we all wanted and love.
> [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=u5EBkMs6,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-06-08T20:24:17.668+0000) > > I don't think you do. People want variety in body types and accurate character designs. That means females whose lore says they aren't waifus, should not look like waifus. So, a woman with an hourglass bodyshape is only good for being fucked and then made someone's trophy wife. She has no business doing anything else or being anyone else because with the body like that she is only meant for sex. Got it. I hope you don't have a daughter.
: Many people are missing the point on Qiyana's design
> [{quoted}](name=Ryusaether,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bpmYnN15,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-08T07:07:52.067+0000) > > she's oversexualized Seriously??? Goddamit, she is basically wearing a tunic. Have these people be living in cloisters? I can agree that the elements theme and her entire bossy, better-than-you shtick clash in a very weird way. Gotta give them credit for moving away from the "elements = peaceful and kind/larger than life" cliche, but they just don't fit with her attitude.
Jeerus (EUW)
: Some champions aren't getting enough skin love
Expect like 20 Yasuo skins incoming.
Ryushiin (NA)
: K/DA male version?
I want a band of {{champion:266}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:238}} with the sensuality of Rammstein. Tis the only right way to do a hot all-men band.
Rioter Comments
: > They didn't mind it because Morgana wasn't covered up before even though she lost much of her creepiness after rework (emaciated look, her scowl, long creepy fingers, cult-ish look and ritualistic dance) and doesn't reflect the ideals she used to represent. However, if Morgana was reworked to be more dressed up or completely devoid of her feminity, it wouldn't cause any complaints about breaking her established character. You're trying to say because Morgana was feminine before people aren't complaining about it now? Even if she wasn't a seductress? Although to be fair, I actually do think the feminity in her old design worked, albeit in a weak way, in conjunction to Kayle's old design. The fact that Kayle was covered up and devoid of feminity and Morgana was completely and openly feminine further illustrated a divide in ideology between the two. Whatever I may feel about the whole sexy vs non-sexy deal, it still works well enough. So old Morgana isn't a seductress, but her feminity still served a small purpose that makes sense. Except now Kayle is also feminine, so now that aspect is completely void. So now Morgana truly doesn't have a reason to be feminine like she does in her update. She just is. But even people who hate Kayle's new design said they loved Morgana's, so it makes me wonder if making Morgana devoid of feminity would have actually caused complaints about Morgana's design. > They called her a playboy bunny who shakes her ass and tits for everyone, a heroine sniffing model, a slut, a stripper and lots of other things. It doesn't look like a non-biased character design criticism to me. Fine. People were calling her that and I've seen it. Obviously they're exaggerating (Kayle isn't THAT overtly sexualized like Evelynn), but I've seen many other people not use that language and critcize her design. The main reason why many people criticized Kayle's design isn't because we hate sexy women in League of Legends, we just hate how they injected it into a character that didn't belong. Some people go too far, and I blame them for making our side of the arguement look bad. So I just ignore them.
> [{quoted}](name=AnotherPurple379,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8nigBM4I,comment-id=00010001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-21T15:53:32.241+0000) > > You're trying to say because Morgana was feminine before people aren't complaining about it now? Even if she wasn't a seductress? What I mean that people tend to equalize bare skin to sexy, limit feminity to only one type of behavior and attitude as well as never associate it with strength or intimidation. For instance, I personally didn't see Morgana as sexy before rework because of her rugged and worn out impression, her gestures, and even her skin arts which was a large part of her concept, so if I wanted to nitpick, I would say that her healthier and more graceful look right now took a large part of her "suffering" theme. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/a/ad/Morgana_concept_02.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160917032313 Before her rework Morgana had a hunched posture and a permanent scowl, she tended to wrap her arm around herself as she walked (creating an impression that she is either in pain or defensive). Even though she wasn't physically repulsive, she still had that haunted, drained aura. The reworked Morgana walks with her back straight, she is very expressive and casts spells very gracefullly. So, these versions are both feminine, but in completely different ways. And if I wanted to nitpick, I would have pointed that out, but Morgana's concept has been changed entirely, so it wouldn't make any sense. > But even people who hate Kayle's new design said they loved Morgana's, so it makes me wonder if making Morgana devoid of feminity would have actually caused complaints about Morgana's design. Well, they are more eager to find reasons why a characters shouldn't be feminine. This is why I'm sure that a champ like concept F Kayle or concept D Kayle will be met with hostility regardless of her backstory. > Fine. People were calling her that and I've seen it. Obviously they're exaggerating (Kayle isn't THAT overtly sexualized like Evelynn), but I've seen many other people not use that language and critcize her design. Yet they agreed with those who used that language and didn't try to call them out. While those who did (like moi) were called dudebros who just couldn't find a waifu to fap to -__- I had no qualms about Kayle because I knew the entire angel vs fallen angel line was going to be scrapped, and since Targon's (and pre-Demacian) setting doesn't really have a place for solemn warriors who carry their duty as a burden, yet Targon just loves to show off its glory, the "justice is an ugly thing" was supposed to go too. Instead they switched their focus to the bond between Kayle and Morgana which is a really nice touch.
: Well... Yes? But also no. I see what point you're trying to make, but I don't think the boards' judgement is that bad. Morgana isn't really a sexually volatile seductress, and she has feminine shape and an open-backed dress, but I haven't seen many people complain about her being feminine. They're complaining mostly about how Kayle's design no longer matches up with the themes and ideals Kayle represents, and how it makes it a much weaker character design than it could have been.
> [{quoted}](name=AnotherPurple379,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8nigBM4I,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-21T02:48:21.142+0000) > > Morgana isn't really a sexually volatile seductress, and she has feminine shape and an open-backed dress, but I haven't seen many people complain about her being feminine. They didn't mind it because Morgana wasn't covered up before even though she lost much of her creepiness after rework (emaciated look, her scowl, long creepy fingers, cult-ish look and ritualistic dance) and doesn't reflect the ideals she used to represent. However, if Morgana was reworked to be more dressed up or completely devoid of her feminity, it wouldn't cause any complaints about breaking her established character. >They're complaining mostly about how Kayle's design no longer matches up with the themes and ideals Kayle represents, and how it makes it a much weaker character design than it could have been. They called her a playboy bunny who shakes her ass and tits for everyone, a heroine sniffing model, a slut, a stripper and lots of other things. It doesn't look like a non-biased character design criticism to me.
: Or they could just give us female Champions with designs that actually match up with their themeatics... Although those alternative Kayle designs would be cool as skins. I personally wouldn't mind if Kayle got Design B, D, or G as an alternative look for her in-game other then her classic skin.
> [{quoted}](name=AnotherPurple379,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8nigBM4I,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-20T04:57:57.297+0000) > > Or they could just give us female Champions with designs that actually match up with their themeatics... Well, I don't have much faith in the Boards judgement: they believe the feminine shape is only good for a sexually volatile female character, if a lady is not a seductress, she should be as masculine is possible, and they're openly insulting to female characters they claim to "want to respect".
huhndog (NA)
: I'm saying that no-one is happy with this skin. not just the boards....
> [{quoted}](name=huhndog,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ouVeaeEA,comment-id=0019000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-20T12:44:53.542+0000) > > I'm saying that no-one is happy with this skin. not just the boards.... Like 99% of these no-one have never mained Ivern or didn't even buy him. Not to mention the temper tantrum they threw when he was released. They will never be happy about Ivern simply because he is not {{champion:157}}
: The Volibear is about “wildness” and “the wilderness” so it is a friend of ivern in some ways. But only because it is an enemy of fields, domestication, civilization, walls, and rules. It hates “the lies of men” and “man’s attempt to enslave and escape nature.” The more powerful a being is, the harder it is: to understand, to be worthy of its intention, or to communicate with. Probably naga is more powerful than the Volibear or Ornn (because a god > a demi-god) but which is easier to contact? which is more likely to come to your add?
> [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=gGMAFgfs,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-19T20:50:13.057+0000) > The more powerful a being is, the harder it is: to understand, to be worthy of its intention, or to communicate with. Probably naga is more powerful than the Volibear or Ornn (because a god > a demi-god) but which is easier to contact? which is more likely to come to your add? I really hope the Volibear is NEITHER the one easiest to contact NOR the one most likely to come to my aid http://www.wow247.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/shining-scream.jpg
EdgeLady (NA)
: There's a fundamental difference between them though. Aatrox wants to destroy everything out of revenge, while Aurelion Sol actually loves his creations and looks somewhat indifferently-to-fondly on most of Runeterra. The only people he really wants to exact vengeance on are the Targonians, especially Pantheon. And I'm sure Zoe annoys him, because she annoys everybody.
> [{quoted}](name=EdgeLady,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=x0K7a4A3,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-19T20:47:36.894+0000) > > There's a fundamental difference between them though. Aatrox wants to destroy everything out of revenge, while Aurelion Sol actually loves his creations and looks somewhat indifferently-to-fondly on most of Runeterra. The only people he really wants to exact vengeance on are the Targonians, especially Pantheon. And I'm sure Zoe annoys him, because she annoys everybody. I think once they get rid of Targon, Aatrox will be free of the magic that binds him, so he is not going to go for the stars. And while Aurelion finds something about Runeterra (not much, but still), he would destroy it this is necessary for defeating Targon and, maybe, leave a star in its place as a sentimental memorial. The bigger issue is, however, that both are too proud for teamwork. This must be either hilarious or really, really, really destructive.
Zladnyl (NA)
: Aatrox, Aurelion Sol, and random thoughts...
I really hope they would team up. Targon has no chance against the combined power of roast and sass.
huhndog (NA)
: Check twitter and reddit. Everyone is pissed
> [{quoted}](name=huhndog,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ouVeaeEA,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2019-03-19T20:06:46.755+0000) > > Check twitter and reddit. Everyone is pissed Twitter is always pissed, what's your point?
Sukishoo (NA)
: Dunk master Ivern...
And people wonder why I say that boards are never happy {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
: Y'all picked the worst Tristana Skin
https://media.giphy.com/media/dsH5EvZqsjqRq/giphy.gif
Moody P (NA)
: Why is Nagakaborous concerned with humans?
I think Naga is pettier than Illaoi thinks. She claims that her goddess doesn't demand tribute since tribute is for weak gods, yet Nagakaboros sent Nautilus to destroy an entire ship because of one coin she doesn't even need. Maybe she destroys undead not because they're evil and stuff but because they don't play by her rules and that pisses her off.
Felvyne (EUW)
: Jokes on you, I love option D and G. Sadly they aren't Kayle at all, but I hope they reuse the concepts on some new champion
> [{quoted}](name=Felvyne,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8nigBM4I,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-03-18T21:48:56.988+0000) > > Jokes on you, I love option D and G. Sadly they aren't Kayle at all, but I hope they reuse the concepts on some new champion If they reuse the concepts on a new champion, the boards will erupt with "oh no another big-boobed barbie stripper champ" whining. I just hope they'd start releasing only male characters from now on. Much less trouble.
: Kayle and Morgana Concept Art by Oussama Agazzoum and Lonewingy
I cannot imagine the magnitude of tantrums if Riot went for option B or option D {{sticker:sg-ezreal}} https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/016/466/283/large/gem-lim-kayle-morg-exploration.jpg?1552289833
Voidner (EUNE)
: The cat sounds are kinda scuffed but i still like it
> [{quoted}](name=Voidner,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=K8IwaRPx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-17T11:21:37.880+0000) > > The cat sounds are kinda scuffed but i still like it I feel like while dog barking was authentic because it's very easy to make a dog bark, someone from Riot team had to make all the cat noises because cats ain't meowing shit for you hooman http://i.imgur.com/EewbDAb.gif
: > You're contradicting yourself. Either people are happy about themselves, regardless of what society tells them or they are not happy because the society pressures them. Fine, I'll clarify. My arguement was against the notion that it's in human nature to be the ideal self, because technically in the larger sense, there is no "ideal body type." Only in our society is there such a thing as the ideal body type that we force people to conform to. Some people don't care about that and that's cool. More power to them. And then there are people who maybe wish to not care about it, but are forced to care about it because of how everyone else reacts to them. Basically, someone could really not want to care about how big they are, but because everyone else keeps focusing on their body type, and it affects their daily life, then they're forced to care about it too. Even if they don't want to. EDIT: Basically, what I mean is that if we stopped pressuring everyone to become the ideal body type, then everyone would probably feel a lot better about themselves the way they are. Remove the notion of "you must be this body type in order to be successful" that our society puts on them, and everyone wouldn't care as much. But because this isn't the case, people who wouldn't have cared otherwise are forced to care about how they look. I feel that there are people who prefer not to change at all but everyone else forces them to think about it. > 85% of their ideal are pretty much buff men and able-bodied females, which is logical considering that Freljord is about fierceness and survival, Demacia is about perfection, Noxus is about being tough and ready to spill blood for your country at any moment, Ionia is about the balance of mind and body and Bilgewater doesn't mind if you're fat because it means you have a lot of coin to eat so well, so you're getting mugged tonight. Piltover aristocracy and Zaun chembarons may be the only exceptions to the rule - and I have my doubts about Piltover because of it's Victorian aesthetics. I see your point, but I respectfully disagree. I can see being muscular in the Freljord is a must because of strength, but I imagine being skinny makes you weaker and can be seen as more easily frail in the cold. Plus, fat can translate to body mass and warmth, which is VERY important to survive in cold environments (seals/whales are animals that have blubber/fat to help survive in cold environments), and at least some fat is needed to healthily maintain muscles. So I imagine big body types of fat and muscle are "idealized" in the Freljord. Yes, Demacia strives for perfection, but only in the moral sense. So far, there is NO evidence that Demacians idealize a particular type of body like they idealize moral purity. Body types and morals are ENTIRELY different things (I imagine if you were fat or frail and still had good Demacian morals, they would leave you alone, and having a perfect body type wouldn't protect you from persecution), and by assuming that Demacians would idealize the same body type we do is just projecting our worldviews into a fictional world (Nothing wrong with it exactly, but it's wrong to assume immediately that it's the truth without evidence. Anyways, that's a discussion for another day). If Riot does give us evidence that Demacia does have an "ideal body type" that mirrors our own, I will take my points back. For Noxus, no offense, but I think you're very wrong. Noxus isn't about idealizing specific body types at all, since it's not about idealizing one type of strength. If you're the type of person who embodies brute strength and force, then of course you would have a strong, muscular body to prove it. But if you were an assassin in Noxus that uses stealth and wits as a form of strength, then a thin, less muscular body type would be ideal. Not to mention mages that use magical powers and politicians that rely on smarts and mind games are also considered strong, and in that case, it doesn't matter what body type you have. Yes, you could have a perfect muscular body type - but if, say, a fat mage can easily defeat you, then the mage may be more highly regarded than you. "Ionia is about the balance of mind and body" kind of translates to "They don't care about body types at all." Why would they? How does the type of body you have affect your connection to the land? Do they really seem like the type of people to do that? I can see your point with Bilgewater, although I've also heard some people call Gangplank fat. I personally think he's more barrel-chested, but... it probably doesn't matter if a fat person is more likely to get mugged, if that fat person is dangerous and can easily gut you for trying to rob them. Also, it's possible for people to be fat but not that rich. Similarly, people with an "ideal" body type can probably get robbed if they're wearing fine enough clothes or look suspiciously rich. I can see your points with Piltover and Zaun as well. Although why exactly would Piltover idealize our version of the ideal body type? Again, this is a different world from ours, so it might not be wise to assume that because of the Victorian aesthetics they would inherit everything from that. What reason might they have? In fact, Zaun might actually be more likely to have an ideal body type - or at least, they would be determined not to have a weak, frail, malnorished body, which is possibly why they tend to augment themselves. Looking back at my points, I think that really the only society that would logically have an "ideal" body type would be the Freljord or Zaun (and even then for the Freljord, it's probably more ideal for their women to be fat or muscular than it is for them to have a skinny hourglass shape, unlike the way our society works). Everywhere else in Runeterra probably wouldn't care. > Gragas' lore is tied to him eating and drinking gallons of ale, Tahm Kench is directly related to gluttony and greed. So, one fat male character is related to indulging his needs, while another is pure evil. Both have a reason why they look that way, while nowadays it's considered fatshaming to try and explain female fatness, while making a fat - I don't mean wide, stocky or a generally ample lady - but an outright fat character "just cause" would be painfully bland and obvious. I don't understand what you're trying to say about "explaining female fatness," so... Could you clarify a little bit please? But hey! I do agree with you about this! Gragas and Tahm Kench have reasons to be fat and it works! And I do consider it a bad character design if a character is fat and it contradicts what the character is supposed to represent. I agree with you there. But you know what also can make a bad character design? Making a character have an "ideal body type" when it contradicts what they are supposed to represent. Kai'Sa and Sylas are prime examples of this. They both have gone through terrible conditions at a young age, and yet they both come out looking perfect like they've been eating a good amount of food to maintain their perfect body? They don't even have scars. They look like normal hot people in cosplay and they don't look like people who has suffered through a lot, which is who they're supposed to be. Kai'Sa and Sylas should probably be much more scarred, for one. Kai'Sa should be way more skinny and frail because how is she able to get food in the freaking void and still survive? Sylas should be way more lean in muscles, unless Riot would like to explain how he's managed to get a good diet with a lot of protein to maintain his current body. The sad thing? These two Champions are VERY recent. And I cannot recall an incident where Riot made a Champion fat "just because." So I kind of find it a little bit silly you're using that arguement because it hasn't happened (at least not yet). In fact, the opposite has happened - it's the "ideal body types" that are oftentimes making the bad character designs. It's not just then either. A lot of other characters could benefit from having a different body type other than the ideal. Examples: Vi is someone who punches people with huge metal gauntlets, so it might make more sense for her to be muscular. Riven is someone who wields a sword that is almost as big as she is and can even manage to jump and flip around with it. She should probably be a lot more muscular for that to make sense. Sejuani is someone who believes in "survival of the fittest", and who wants to make the strongest tribe by eliminating the weak. If muscles = strength, then Sejuani should be less hourglass-shaped and WAY more muscular. Heck, I even think that a plus-size body type would work better for Ashe then a hourglass body shape would! Ashe can deal a lot of damage, but she's slow and squishy, which can fit with that kind of body shape. Plus, Freljord's a cold place, it would make sense if she had a bigger body that helped conserve body warmth. PLUS, from a character design perspective, motherhood that is associated with warmth and kindness is also associated with fat, because fat is soft and pudgy without hard edges. And out of the three sisters of the Freljord, Ashe is the one who exemplifies this warm, caring kind of motherhood the most, the kind of leadership that is strengthened through unity, peace, and mercy. So then the three leaders of the Freljord aren't just different because of their lore - they have major differences in their character designs through their body types - Ashe is fat, Sejuani is muscular, and Lissandra, the powerful mage who schemes in the shadows, is thin. That's just one example of different body types being used to enhance a character design. And with many characters in the game already, it could be possible to find some more in which they don't need to have a typical "perfect" body shape. I'm sorry for the long reply. Hopefully you don't mind.
> [{quoted}](name=AnotherPurple379,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=sO0PbUX9,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-17T00:07:26.888+0000) > > .Basically, someone could really not want to care about how big they are, but because everyone else keeps focusing on their body type, and it affects their daily life, then they're forced to care about it too. Even if they don't want to. That's really a matter of perspective. I agree that dismissing or ridiculing a person for their looks is a dick move and anyone doing it is an asshole. But people mostly don't really care about someone's looks unless they're over the top or downright unhealthy. For instance, if someone is overweight or chubby, but is a generally nice, tidy person with a good taste in clothing, nobody will ever give a damn. However if a person is downright obese and has "me against the world" mood that spreads to their overall appearance and behavior, well, nobody'll say anything out loud because people prefer get on with their lives. But they would definitely think "this guy/lady needs to change his/her eating habits and consult with a doctor instead of taking it out on me". Eating clean, working out, maintaining normal BMI, being creative with your hairstyle, using mascara for bringing out the strongest features of your appearance is the sign of loving yourself. And I see nothing wrong with inspiring this type of self-care. I do agree with you regarding fashion industry and IRL performers/actors because whole life creates a glossy image. However, this cannot make people miserable without a barrage of issues related to life, work, study or family that adds up to it. Folks with a hobby, a wholesome company willing to hear them out, and lack of long-lasting crisis are less likely to feel pressured by a face from the magazine cover. > So I imagine big body types of fat and muscle are "idealized" in the Freljord. Regarding seals and walruses they're 44% muscle and 18% blubber and their shape is what makes them such good swimmers. Seal pups gain up to 50% body fat on mother's milk, but lose it quickly. So fat storage between humans and seals is very different. Living in subzero places like Freljord is draining. People who go to cold regions eat a lot of chocolate and sugar as well as fat-enriched meat to keep going. In total, they consume 6000 calories a day and it's burns out so fast they don't really become fatter. Now, it is possible that Freljordian tribes have adjusted to these conditions in centuries, so they accumulate their body fat, at least the warm-blooded ones. However it would make them look stockier and buffer, not plumper. > Yes, Demacia strives for perfection, but only in the moral sense. So far, there is NO evidence that Demacians idealize a particular type of body like they idealize moral purity. Body types and morals are ENTIRELY different things, By Demacia I meant their soldiers and nobility (which is expected to be in top condition and good with a sword). They train hard because they represent Demacia's finest. Commoners are not expected to follow them physically, but they do look up to their royals a lot because in Demacia nobles uphold everything good about Demacia. > For Noxus, I think you're very wrong. Noxus isn't about idealizing specific body types at all, since it's not about idealizing one type of strength. Noxus is militaristic, so chubbiness may equalize fat to laziness, softness or self-indulgence, which isn't really the Noxian way. Sure, if a fat person is useful, they'll be regarded with respect. However it would not be a part of their ideal because they crave all kind of strength a Noxian can give them. So, while they might be accepting of lean assassins and fat mages, the ultimate standard that embodies everything great about Noxus would be someone like Darius. > Why would they? How does the type of body you have affect your connection to the land? Do they really seem like the type of people to do that? Ionians live in harmony with their land and don't take more than the land allows them. While I think they're pretty chill about body types and personal choices, fat body type is just not very common there because of that lifestyle, so their beauty standards were shaped around something else. > it probably doesn't matter if a fat person is more likely to get mugged, if that fat person is dangerous and can easily gut you for trying to rob them. If their body mass is more muscle than fat they do have a chance. But you're right because Bilgewater is very chaotic and many sailors and monsterhunters have no time for beauty standard since they don't know if they're coming back from their next raid. So if a fat character was to be introduced, I think Bilgewater would work perfectly. > Although why exactly would Piltover idealize our version of the ideal body type? Piltover is one of the more modernly convenient places. They have electricity, cars, machines and thus their average level of comfort is higher, not limited by militarism of Noxus or Demacian idealism. Therefore, no wonder this is the place where haute couture and fashion statements thrive, while the citizens are encouraged to do better. While they are very demanding and competitive, they have a "more is less" attitude towards things, so by Victorian aesthetic I meant that they don't approve of being extra. I'm looking forward Cait's rework because her outfit doesn't look Piltoverian at this point and it's poor fashion in general because she has been around before the current Piltover was even a thing and 2009 League was very stereotypical about its champs. > I don't understand what you're trying to say about "explaining female fatness," so... Could you clarify a little bit please? Sure! It is wouldn't be possible to make a female Gragas because it will result in a backlash as in "So you associate fat women with messy eaters, you pigs?" or a female Tahm Kench because of "vilifying fat women" even though Ursula is kickass. Even introducing someone like Curly Dadan from One Piece would end in "so, fat women are always old and a caricature to you?!". I've seen it happen in other games and media, so I can almost see the headlines. Therefore, to avoid any backlash the fat female character has to be refined, flawless and accomplished to set the "right example". And nothing is worse than a spice-free perfect character. I would love an Ursula-like witch or a middle-aged evil scientist who smokes, makes grim jokes and is all like "Been there done that, darling", but in truth I should expect a plus-sized Lux at best. > They don't even have scars. They look like normal people in cosplay and they don't look like people who has suffered through a lot, which is who they're supposed to be. As for Kai'Sa and Sylas: well, I found Sylas meh in general because of all the ways to explore a Demacian mage with a grudge they went the most mundane "Viva la revolucion kill the pigs" route. It was disappointing. However, I like Kai'Sa because I can see how she works. While I wouldn't have said anything had her design been different, her symbiosis covers a lot of questions about her nutrition and lack of scars (aside from that people don't get just scars when grazed by something like Kog'Maw or Chogath they get death). There is no way the symbiote didn't affect her internal processes to help her metabolism and regeneration. The price for it is having to feed her the symbiote all the time to make sure it doesn't turn on her. Also, she is quick and nimble which suits her fighting kit: hit, sting, run, maneuver. She is basically a tarantula wasp and I see why they ditched her heavily armored concept from before: by looking at it one may think she was supposed to be a tank. > Sejuani is someone who believes in "survival of the fittest", and who wants to make the strongest tribe by eliminating the weak. If muscles = strength, then Sejuani should be less hourglass-shaped and WAY more muscular. Hourglass-shape doesn't exclude muscles. Waist/hips don't disappear if you hit the gym, but can become even more pronounced after gaining muscle. Women rarely buff up and guys too don't double in size without steroids. A girl in my friend's fighting club is really petite, but she has years of training, so she sends guys twice bigger than her flying in one punch. > it would make sense if she had a bigger body that helped conserve body warmth. PLUS, from a character design perspective, motherhood that is associated with warmth and kindness is also associated with fat, because fat is soft and pudgy without hard edges. And out of the three sisters of the Freljord, Ashe is the one who exemplifies this warm, caring kind of motherhood the most, the kind of leadership that is strengthened through unity, peace, and mercy. Ashe is an Iceborn. She is highly resistant to cold and can use deadly True Ice that kills ordinary people. Folks who aren't Iceborn are called "warm-blooded" and considered lesser peons. It's a stereotype that an archer should either a Legolas-like thin fellow or a petite girl, because it takes a lot of physical strength to use a war bow. However, if Ashe is a ranger, which means "hit and run", it makes sense for her to be lean because fat people are not associated with running for a reason (I used to be overweight, I had trouble breathing when *speedwalking*). Now, to add up: I bought Illaoi and Kalista the moment they came out. I'm all for devs exploring ways to express a character. But I don't believe that it should be done to "represent" or "make a good example". The best thing about a character is feeling devs enjoyed every moment of making them and it was genuine. > I'm sorry for the long reply. Hopefully you don't mind. I don't mind it at all. I always like a good conversation {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: Nah, some people are perfectly happy with their bodies, whether they fit the ideal or not. It's not inherently human nature to aspire to become the ideal body type. It's because we as a society made that ideal body type and now pressure everyone to become it, whether they can or not. Plus, Runeterra is different from our world and features many different cultures. What if the "ideal body type" to them isn't super-thin females or super-buff men? Then the game might want to reflect that.
> [{quoted}](name=AnotherPurple379,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=sO0PbUX9,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-16T21:22:26.608+0000) > > Nah, some people are perfectly happy with their bodies, whether they fit the ideal or not. > > It's not inherently human nature to aspire to become the ideal body type. It's because we as a society made that ideal body type and now pressure everyone to become it, whether they can or not. You're contradicting yourself. Either people are happy about themselves, regardless of what society tells them or they are not happy because the society pressures them. > Plus, Runeterra is different from our world and features many different cultures. What if the "ideal body type" to them isn't super-thin females or super-buff men? Then the game might want to reflect that. 85% of their ideal are pretty much buff men and able-bodied females, which is logical considering that Freljord is about fierceness and survival, Demacia is about perfection, Noxus is about being tough and ready to spill blood for your country at any moment, Ionia is about the balance of mind and body and Bilgewater doesn't mind if you're fat because it means you have a lot of coin to eat so well, so you're getting mugged tonight. Piltover aristocracy and Zaun chembarons may be the only exceptions to the rule - and I have my doubts about Piltover because of it's Victorian aesthetics. Gragas' lore is tied to him eating and drinking gallons of ale, Tahm Kench is directly related to gluttony and greed. So, one fat male character is related to indulging his needs, while another is pure evil. Both have a reason why they look that way, while nowadays it's considered fatshaming to try and explain female fatness, while making a fat - I don't mean wide, stocky or a generally ample lady - but an outright fat character "just cause" would be painfully bland and obvious.
: > [{quoted}](name=BoringLittleF,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=9chvtwMp,comment-id=00280000,timestamp=2019-03-08T18:31:18.791+0000) > > What I didn't like about the old lore is that "ART" idea. Seriously, we already have a bunch of lunatics who think that killing = self-expression {{champion:202}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:119}} so that "Nobody understands me! They called my work a hack job" was getting old before Jhin got introduced. > Ok but what does that have to do with aatrox who didn't do it in the name of art but did it in the name of sustaining himself because he was more or less a chaos demon in the warhammer sense. Feeding off the energies of death and rage in war > I think, it would be a win-win if they mixed old and new lores. Kept the dignified and powerful lines of the old Aatrox, but kept the imprisonment and grudge against Targon part. > I don't see why? I don't think his new lore is anything great, it's quite cliche and overdone "Blah blah fallen hero blah blah unjust revenge kill all humans" is all i read. > It would make sense for Aatrox to intervene in conflicts and be treated as a mythical gamechanger, creating bloody battles, pushing warriors to the extreme and taking lives just to find the perfect vessel for him and to show that coward Pantheon that he is not worthy of being called the Aspect of War. Because real wars are blood, gore and fighting till the end, not hiding behind the tricks of a little girl. Also he would probably use it to destroy Targon's influence in Runettera as in "See? Targon doesn't give a shit about you". > But he was doing it to feast on people, that's why it was cool. he protected people not because he cared about anyone as a human but because they were his livestock. I fucking thought that was grimdark awesomeness and it made him very unique in the roster, now he's just "Grrr kill mortals cuz i have a grudge against them for overthrowing me after i betrayed everyone... grrrrrrrrr" > It would have given him the depth people liked about him and his philosophy, yet kept the "Darkins = ex-Ascended" line Riot started pushing while removing the annyoing "ART" bit. i saw the art bit as people describing him as an artisan of death, war and suffering over anything.
> [{quoted}](name=Hammermancer,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=9chvtwMp,comment-id=002800000000,timestamp=2019-03-08T21:35:24.158+0000) > > Ok but what does that have to do with aatrox who didn't do it in the name of art but did it in the name of sustaining himself because he was more or less a chaos demon in the warhammer sense. Feeding off the energies of death and rage in war Because he kept talking about masterpieces and creation. He treated each battlefield as his master project which put him into an odd place between what he was supposed to symbolize and the way he spoke and acted. Also he was quite...distant for someone who embodies death and rage. > I don't see why? I don't think his new lore is anything great, it's quite cliche and overdone "Blah blah fallen hero blah blah unjust revenge kill all humans" is all i read. Well, his VO tells much more than that. I don't agree with the "Darkin are not the mysterious race, but Ascended who went bad", but Aatrox makes the most out of that concept. > But he was doing it to feast on people, that's why it was cool. he protected people not because he cared about anyone as a human but because they were his livestock. I fucking thought that was grimdark awesomeness and it made him very unique in the roster This is another problem. People being his livestock was reflected in his abilities only, but not in his lore. It never reflected his intentions and he was more dedicated to creating new "masterpieces" and berserkers than finding the best warriors to feed off. >Grrr kill mortals cuz i have a grudge against them for overthrowing me after i betrayed everyone... grrrrrrrrr" He doesn't have grudge against mortals. He has grudge against Targon for imprisoning him and each time he reverts to his sword form, he is in agony which doesn't improve his mood. Also his lines imply that being called a villain and the monster hurts him (unlike Rhaast or Varus), but he sees no other way for him but to go ahead and be the villain that either ends the world and dies or gets utterly destroyed in the process. Also he didn't betray everyone. He fought the Void than he was a part of in-fighting with his own kin when Shurima fell. However, it is never stated whether he was one of the saner Darkin or one of the worst. And seeing how the only Ascended that got spared was Nasus because he was not doing anything at all, merely sitting and watching Shurima die, I don't think that Targon was very picky when judging which particular Darkin deserves to be imprisoned. > i saw the art bit as people describing him as an artisan of death, war and suffering over anything. This is what I meant. We already have champs that embody suffering {{champion:82}} {{champion:412}}, war and art of war {{champion:80}} {{champion:120}} and death {{champion:30}} {{champion:203}} Their presence was making Aatrox's old lore and motivations blurry.
: > [{quoted}](name=BoringLittleF,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=5JbvbTHf,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-03-08T18:09:29.941+0000) > > I won't be surprised if Kayle had something for Ronas. It wasn't conscious and maybe she never tried anything with him because she was supposed to be a paragon and paragons don't get distracted by affairs. > > Yet, he was special to her and probably one of the few closest people she had around because her sister did not share her ideas about their holy mission, and all that Zeffira incident, and her father was probably uncomfortable with watching her follow her mother's steps, while Ronas was here, as passionate and dutiful as her. For someone, as self-isolated (at quite young age) as Kayle, this is enough to start feeling affeciton for the guy. > > She felt it when he died and it filled her with despair. So when Kayle says that she had felt pain and it made her weak, it makes sense. > > She came feeling that something horrible happpened to her crush, saw him dead (I think Morgana admitted doing it), lost herself to the emotion and fought her sister, then she realized that she lost the remnants of her family and everything she worked so hard to build. It left her in an emotional mess and then led her to a conclusion that she gave in to human weaknesses like wanting affection, nepotism and wrath, and if she hadn't done it, nothing of this would have happened. Yeah, but the majority of what you just said is extrapolation and conjecture. That's the major problem here. The lore doesn't convey this _AT ALL._ And for someone as important as Ronas, and the role he plays in the sisters' division is pretty damn important enough for him to have more back story than "he was her best follower who tried to kill her sister and died instead." In fact, that whole incident is something that should be a focus in the lore, and should have probably been built up in their color stories, instead of just random myths about them judging people. If he is indeed Kayle's crush or lover or whatever he was that she had developed feelings for, we should know that upfront, instead of wondering why this random guy, who by all means is probably another face in the crowd that follows Kayle, is responsible for causing an unrepairable Rift between the twins.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=5JbvbTHf,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-08T19:36:43.568+0000) > > Yeah, but the majority of what you just said is extrapolation and conjecture. That's the major problem here. The lore doesn't convey this _AT ALL._ And for someone as important as Ronas, and the role he plays in the sisters' division is pretty damn important enough for him to have more back story than "he was her best follower who tried to kill her sister and died instead." In fact, that whole incident is something that should be a focus in the lore, and should have probably been built up in their color stories, instead of just random myths about them judging people. If he is indeed Kayle's crush or lover or whatever he was that she had developed feelings for, we should know that upfront, instead of wondering why this random guy, who by all means is probably another face in the crowd that follows Kayle, is responsible for causing an unrepairable Rift between the twins. I agree that it's just extrapolation and following breadcrumbs. Maybe Ronas wasn't even a crush, but the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of Kayle's tolerance of Morgana taking sinners under her wing. After all, Kayle was true to her word and didn't touch the people under Morgana's care but now her twin just kills one of her most devout followers and lets the criminals run amok, while lecturing Kayle about justice? Maybe Riot are preparing to elaborate on this moment in the future content ~~unless everything gets retconned once again~~
: Dude aatrox old lore was he was feeding off the energies of death and mysery in old wars, he'd side with the would-be-losers to get more profit, and he presumably would protect runeterra from external threats (Like the void) just like a cattle rancher protects the cows he intends on butchering from wolves that is actually why i liked aatrox, he was cool to me, he was the first demigod level lore in league and now he's some arrogant guy who wants to kill da humiez cuz he's just so orky
> [{quoted}](name=Hammermancer,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=9chvtwMp,comment-id=0028,timestamp=2019-03-08T16:28:58.791+0000) > > Dude aatrox old lore was he was feeding off the energies of death and mysery in old wars, he'd side with the would-be-losers to get more profit, and he presumably would protect runeterra from external threats (Like the void) just like a cattle rancher protects the cows he intends on butchering from wolves > > > that is actually why i liked aatrox, he was cool to me, he was the first demigod level lore in league and now he's some arrogant guy who wants to kill da humiez cuz he's just so orky What I didn't like about the old lore is that "ART" idea. Seriously, we already have a bunch of lunatics who think that killing = self-expression {{champion:202}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:119}} so that "Nobody understands me! They called my work a hack job" was getting old before Jhin got introduced. I think, it would be a win-win if they mixed old and new lores. Kept the dignified and powerful lines of the old Aatrox, but kept the imprisonment and grudge against Targon part. It would make sense for Aatrox to intervene in conflicts and be treated as a mythical gamechanger, creating bloody battles, pushing warriors to the extreme and taking lives just to find the perfect vessel for him and to show that coward Pantheon that he is not worthy of being called the Aspect of War. Because real wars are blood, gore and fighting till the end, not hiding behind the tricks of a little girl. Also he would probably use it to destroy Targon's influence in Runettera as in "See? Targon doesn't give a shit about you". It would have given him the depth people liked about him and his philosophy, yet kept the "Darkins = ex-Ascended" line Riot started pushing while removing the annyoing "ART" bit.
: @Riot - Who the hell is Ronas to break a bond between twins?
I won't be surprised if Kayle had something for Ronas. It wasn't conscious and maybe she never tried anything with him because she was supposed to be a paragon and paragons don't get distracted by affairs. Yet, he was special to her and probably one of the few closest people she had around because her sister did not share her ideas about their holy mission, and all that Zeffira incident, and her father was probably uncomfortable with watching her follow her mother's steps, while Ronas was here, as passionate and dutiful as her. For someone, as self-isolated (at quite young age) as Kayle, this is enough to start feeling affeciton for the guy. She felt it when he died and it filled her with despair. So when Kayle says that she had felt pain and it made her weak, it makes sense. She came feeling that something horrible happpened to her crush, saw him dead (I think Morgana admitted doing it), lost herself to the emotion and fought her sister, then she realized that she lost the remnants of her family and everything she worked so hard to build. It left her in an emotional mess and then led her to a conclusion that she gave in to human weaknesses like wanting affection, nepotism and wrath, and if she hadn't done it, nothing of this would have happened.
: Will the chibi champion icons ever be coming back?
Chibi icons are no longer trendy. JoJo icons are the new shit. https://i.imgflip.com/1jox3r.jpg
: > [{quoted}](name=BoringLittleF,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=NN16QyIy,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-06T22:17:17.492+0000) > > It wasn't a mistake, Riot, it was the will of Fate declaring that Dragon Dad is the best dad. Number #1 Dragon Dad. But seriously, take a look at this statement. https://twitter.com/LaurieGoulding/status/1103336258485379072 Nobody at Riot, according to Goulding, even considered the fact that Dragon Dad, one of the key aspects of Shyvana's lore which is literally part of every iteration of her bio up to this recent one.
> [{quoted}](name=BonzaiBuddy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=NN16QyIy,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-03-06T22:23:39.244+0000) > > #1 Dragon Dad. But seriously, take a look at this statement. > https://twitter.com/LaurieGoulding/status/1103336258485379072 > > Nobody at Riot, according to Goulding, even considered the fact that Dragon Dad, one of the key aspects of Shyvana's lore which is literally part of every iteration of her bio up to this recent one. I mean...her old lore is pretty easy to find and not very long to read. You cannot really miss a huge chunk of the story in which Shyvana's father was here for her while dragonkin was not. Not mentioning her quote. She doesn't have much quotes to miss that one. Just how? {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
: Shyvana's new Bio is not only a downgrade of a decent piece of lore, but it's LITERALLY a mistake...
It wasn't a mistake, Riot, it was the will of Fate declaring that Dragon Dad is the best dad.
: They can't have it both ways, you cannot say you can ignore the league community because they are a vocal minority then listen to another vocal minority its double standards at its finest.
> [{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Efp5dzqu,comment-id=000700020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-06T20:41:46.858+0000) > > They can't have it both ways, you cannot say you can ignore the league community because they are a vocal minority then listen to another vocal minority its double standards at its finest. I agree that when doing Shyvanna retcon they certainly didn't think "The fans and community are going to love it". However, I just doubt that their decision was forced by feminists or social justice activists because these groups don't even care about League of Legends outside the Riot scandal. It is still a shitty decision though.
: What do you think is in those cannisters he fires?
> [{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vEmzsa4n,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-06T17:52:06.734+0000) > > What do you think is in those cannisters he fires? OK, now shooting Q at {{champion:157}} will be as satisfying as hitting R
: You forget that this minority vocal group has a creepily powerful pull in the media and vs companies, they managed to convince Gillette a company aimed at men to make an ad showing men as abusive woman assaulting pigs unless a person of colour is holding their shoulder, what baffles me is why that group has such pull despite consistent results that insulting your customer base destroys your profit margins.
> [{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Efp5dzqu,comment-id=0007000200000000,timestamp=2019-03-06T19:22:06.959+0000) > > You forget that this minority vocal group has a creepily powerful pull in the media and vs companies, they managed to convince Gillette a company aimed at men to make an ad showing men as abusive woman assaulting pigs unless a person of colour is holding their shoulder, what baffles me is why that group has such pull despite consistent results that insulting your customer base destroys your profit margins. The ad is disgusting and if it was a smaller company, it would have tanked. This is why a smaller company in its own mind would never hire a zealous feminist to develop anything for their male audience. However, Gillette is a part of a major corporation that was caught red-handed using illegal child labor, bad financial practices and lots of other shit nasty enough that jumping the hypetrain to distract people with a shitty ad seems like a good idea. At least I won't be surprised if that turns out to be the real reason behind that ad and the ensuing chaos because Gillette has all the money and power not to give a fuck about feminists. Which means, they **chose** to do it and I won't believe for a second that it was the love for humanity or "respecting women" that guided them. To let vocal group have an influence, a developer has to give them one. Sometimes it happens because some of the developers share their views but then start thinking in extremes (no, Patrick Weekes, boys saw female protagonists before Wonder Woman and they know how to sympathize women on-screen and in life, this is not a golden star achievement) which affects the quality of their games, or because the company needs a shitshow to hide even a bigger shit show that can and will hurt them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Efp5dzqu,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2019-03-06T10:21:04.226+0000) > > Get over it > > Its 2019 > > Children are not allowed to have strong father figures. > > /s btw sometimes it does feel like the last decade has slowly removed strong male figures from all pop culture in favor of what has become monotony I mean when was the last strong male protagonistic figure who was actually masculine? And I'm not counting fairy tale types like Ornn, no, It was Braum. As far as reworks go, it was yorick, who was reworked into a strong masculine protagonist, so Yorick and braum were the last two protagonist male champions who weren't overly effeminate and one of them is a joke as far as villains? any masculine champ released since braum, or reworked since yorick, is a villain. Kayn is a villain at his worst and an anti-hero at his nicest, but as he becomes less evil shadow assassin, he frankly becomes less masculine? I don't get it Ezreal rework is fairly masculine but turned him into a pompous asshole Pyke is a villain Swain is a villain basically any male who is capable, independent, and full of grit is a villain or turned into an animal person meanwhile riot releases a scanitly clad girl power female in every role every three or so weeks It's probably not intentional but i really think it's feeding into a narrative. What's wrong with good guy garen? are they gonna retconn his lore so that he's a serial murderer who gets his immunity to magic by paying women less than him while sitting with his legs spread open on the metro? (That was a joke) It's not quite that bad, but there is something to be said about the lack of positive strong male champions in the game, especially in the fighter and assassin categories where you'd think theyd be more prevailent let's look at low cd 'outplay' fighters {{champion:39}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:92}} 2 to 1 women per men, and the two men are some of the most ignored champions that they constantly get fucked on itemization that being said I'm not salty about there being female fighters, the more champs the merrier, I'm just pointing out that riot doesn't actually cater to this demographic
> [{quoted}](name=Hammermancer,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Efp5dzqu,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2019-03-06T16:28:36.477+0000) > > sometimes it does feel like the last decade has slowly removed strong male figures from all pop culture in favor of what has become monotony You're not wrong in general, but I don't think that League is the case. > Kayn is a villain at his worst and an anti-hero at his nicest, but as he becomes less evil shadow assassin, he frankly becomes less masculine? I don't get it Kayn is far from feminine even in his Shadow Assassin form. Sure it's a nod towards anime and Japanese symbolism (long hair = power), but still. > Ezreal rework is fairly masculine but turned him into a pompous asshole He is rather tame. Well, yes, he is loud, overconfident and boisterous, but that's what happens when a kid is first left to his own devices and doesn't get much attention from his parents. I can even get why he treats sacred artifacts like this - his parents went MIA because of these things, so it may be also the subconscious "You took something of mine, then I will take all of you and curses be damned". Yet, he is not an asshole to the most of the champs - he also defends Lux from Zoe because she obviously can drop a comet on a human who bothers her. Also he never really calls himself a hero or claims that people should follow him, so he is quite self-aware. In addition, before Ezreal there was Nunu who went from a smoking midget to a funny Neverending Story kid. > Pyke is a villain Pyke is a sympathetic villain. He is stuck in this state after being abandoned by his team and he wouldn't kill a person who did him no wrong, but the curse distorts his vision and makes him "remember" that the person he has just met is in fact his former shipmate. Yet, his voicelines are more sad than scary. I personally think that when alive Pyke was a gruff, yet honest and hardworking man whose silent respect was hard to earn, but precious to have. > Swain is a villain Swain is rather the man for a job when it comes to being stuck between a mad leader manipulated by an immortal sorceress, his own people and the future of his country, and trying to do something. He is dignified and grimly practical which creates the perfect contrast with Demacian valor.
: > Why change this story?! Why erase one of the best father figures? > You answered your own question, feminists hate traditional strong males, hell they hate women who are strong for the RIGHT reasons like battle angel alita and since riot wants to keep up the impression that they are pro gender tax noun somethingism they have to retcon strong men out of the game where they can without fan backlash. Why do they care a about a group of less then 300 vocal twitter twats and their bots? nobody knows.
> [{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Efp5dzqu,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2019-03-06T17:37:02.441+0000) > > You answered your own question, feminists hate traditional strong males, hell they hate women who are strong for the RIGHT reasons like battle angel alita and since riot wants to keep up the impression that they are pro gender tax noun somethingism they have to retcon strong men out of the game where they can without fan backlash. > > Why do they care a about a group of less then 300 vocal twitter twats and their bots? nobody knows. Eh, to be honest, I don't think that feminists really care about League that much or even that all that allegation shtick is to blame. Sure, Riot did try to cover their ass with that stupid PAX stunt, but the responsibility is entirely on their PR manager's shoulders while lore team is an entirely different department - and online crusaders (who complain about the characters they don't know fuck about) don't read lore. I don't know how they make decisions on the lore change and how is it approved, but right now it feels like one of the authors just retconned the lore without supervision and the rest of the team uploaded it without reading.
: Morgana and Kayle Color Stories
I liked the stories. They kinda fit the impression Kayle and Morgana gave me the first time. - Kayle is an absolute, purging justice. It is not enough to kill a tyrant for he has built a corrupted kingdom and created a network of servants and SIC's that would gladly replace him and continue his twisted ways. Also never trust rebels who claim that they will be better once they have power: they lie. Therefore, she roots out not only the vile king but his subjects as well, leaving no trace of his reign and allowing those who remain start things anew while remembering that if the injustice starts again, she will fly down once more. This is a cruel thing, but sometimes this is the only way. Kayle is also a swift justice: she slays, not tortures. - Morgana is a more...personalized justice. She believes not in punishment but in leaving someone alone with their sins or putting them in the same situation to get the taste of their own medicine. This is a reformative justice that demands time and a more peaceful period. Also, unlike Kayle, Morgana torments and makes sinners suffer to remind them that everyone hurts and anyone can suddenly become helpless, at other's mercy anytime. Also, it does not really looks like she doesn't kill because she likes humanity: she just thinks that killing them won't be a good punishment (maybe it also the result of her loneliness and longevity).
: Shyvana's Mother's Motive
That's a very stupid retcon ~~I would say a Varus level stupid~~ and I don't even know WHY it was made. Shyvana has been dragon dad's dragon daughter since League started, but now her entire lore is a mess.
: > [{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9WIIVakR,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-03-05T17:46:19.023+0000) > > KDA was an event, hence the missions that pooled with it. also there was the oddessy event having jinx and sona, the vs event riven, etc Odyssey had male champs included. You're missing the point here. The whole event cats verse dogs theme is cute and girly, but they chose to not include female champs, and it makes zero sense, considering this event is practically aimed toward female players.
> [{quoted}](name=DNGSkitty RAWR,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9WIIVakR,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-03-05T17:48:12.356+0000) > > hey chose to not include female champs To avoid another whining about fanservice and playboy kitties probably. I would do the same.
: This is going to get downvoted because the League community hates anything to do with men, but I'm salty enough that I'm going to post it anyway. The K/DA video teaser was just released, and you're telling me you made all those adorable skins and couldn't make a SINGLE one for a male champion? You chose ALL female champs? Wtf?
> [{quoted}](name=TinyMasterOfEvul,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9WIIVakR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-05T17:40:31.043+0000) > > This is going to get downvoted because the League community hates anything to do with men, but I'm salty enough that I'm going to post it anyway. The K/DA video teaser was just released, and you're telling me you made all those adorable skins and couldn't make a SINGLE one for a male champion? You chose ALL female champs? Wtf? A boy band with Aatrox, Kayn, Sylas and Rakan would be hot though.
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BoringLittleF

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