Rioter Comments
Gríff (NA)
: Just got told to kill myself for telling my team to buy Executioners, AMA
: I'd personally like it if HP costs were more noticable, %hp costs are a good start, but they need to find a balance.
%HP costs are super-problematic, because you can end up hurting yourself more than the enemy.
: So, you delay assassin burst and then expect them to not build tanky?
Assassins are supposed to suck at teamfighting.
Rioter Comments
: If you want to land any kind of CC on yasuo in lane you have to wait for him not to have dashing targets, is common sense like waiting for Zed to use his shadows.
Obviously, but if Yasuo is not played by a baboon this happens so rarely that it is still more profitable for Swain to put ranks in E and just throw it at him all the time. You can also try to land W s his dash ends, but again, this only works if Yasuo keeps dashing for no reason.
MysterQ (NA)
: Does Lee Sin Need a Root?
A root would be fine. But it _stuns_ you.
: If you are talking about midlane then Yasuo is usually weak against other Assassins (Akali used to be a hard stomper before the rwork and still is I guess) while some mages can still get on top of him (Xerath and Ziggs are safe, Swain is a hard counter even toplane and Syndra too can be good if you manage not to get walled your ult). Toplane then Darius is a good choice but you have to keep him in check because a failed AoE is a trade win for him, Swain is good too, Pantheon should also be powerful against him. After laning your job is to never let him get to your squishies, this doesn't mean that you should meatwalling them, if you know he is going to knockup+ult just get out of the knockup area, you can stun him while in air, negate his damage and proceed to kill him.
When mentioning Swain it is important to note that you should put at least 2 ranks in E, and don't be afraid to put more if in doubt. With Yasuo's mobility, you aren't landing WQ ever unless he is played by a baboon.
: yas is the exception, {{champion:11}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:24}} None of these guys have much more than any adc in all reality, and they are meant to build the same or atleast very similar.
Of course they do. Master and Trynd deal way more damage than an ADC, and have obviously more powerful defense mechanism - do I need to convince you that no marksman in the game can ignore death for 5 seconds? Jax is kind of different, people say that he is a melee carry but he is balanced for bruiser builds since forever. This is due to outdated design mostly - his ult forces him to actually tank damage, unlike other "real" melee carries.
: because adc is a cancer class becuase riot doesn't count attack range to power budget so the only reliable way to fight more than half of them is to kill them before they can react.
Yeah. Melee carries like Yasuo get insane mobility, doubled stats, more CC than any marksman has and a windshield that is second most powerful ability in the game after Stand United, all because they are melee. But Riot doesn't factor range. Rite.
Rioter Comments
: Agreed, Shen's dash shouldn't affect champions. FFS man he's a tank with one CC.
The point is not that he shouldn't be able to crowd control champions. The point is, it's a _taunt_, so it draws tower aggro on you. Which means you can't realistically pressure his tower as long as he is in lane. And pushing him out of lane takes hella long time, as being a tank he has powerful defense mechanisms, he has an escape AND he uses energy meaning he is never forced to base by lack of resource. This all combined means that Shen's weak laning is basically meaningless - he won't _win_ lane, but he won't really be punished either. It would be much different if Shadow Dash just stunned.
: I've had it with you mages abusing MY itemization!
AP champions wouldn't need to "abuse" items if Riot at some point didn't decide that mage items need to be crap while all other classes need great items to function. It is not mages fault that Gunblade is strictly superior to most choices in their pool. Why would you buy 80% cost efficient Luden's Echo when you have an item with 120% cost efficiency AND way, way better active?
: @Riot, these Shen changes were not the ones you were looking for, and here's why.
If Shen is supposed to be "shit in lane, great on the map" champion, he shouldn't have a taunt that prevents you from _actually_ using his weak laning phase against him.
: "How about we wait on the rift herald change"
> By the time you kill it from the front, the first turret would already be down and almost the second. Not necessarily. Her damage gets heavily gimped when she loses HP. So if you take her down to 50% before she takes the first tower, she won't deal too much damage to the second. And honestly - while it _looks_ bullshit, it's not like your enemies get it for free. When they fight her, you can take a dragon or do damage to some other towers. Or - simply - you can stop them from killing her. The team that got herald doesn't get _free_ tower - they already dedicated resources, took a risk and succeeded. Killing a tower is the least they deserve for that. It's not like Riot created a monster that appears to take your towers _out of nowhere_.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Gunblade's active is the problem
Riot won't change an active that has no direct interaction with basic attacks to "melee only".
: Hah! Dude, there's been champs rotting in the gutter waaayyyy longer than Cho. He's far from being that far into the hole.
The thing is those champions actually deserved that in a way. I faithfully played Yorick all those years he was forbidden, but Yorick was way too toxic to be allowed to be strong and I can't deny it so I wasn't even mad. Azir, for another example, might be in really bad state in solo q, but he well deserved that with his dominance before - in a fact, he _still_ sees some pro play in his "unplayable" and "forgotten" state. But the only thing Cho did, was that his silence was instant. He wasn't strong, he wasn't oppressive, and wasn't even popular. Not a problem in any way.
Rioter Comments
: ADCs when they dont like the champ their support picks
Yeah. Also: *support declares {{champion:89}} * 5 minutes later *support picks {{champion:89}} * *{{champion:89}} goes for a trade with lvl 2 powerspike* *{{champion:22}} doesn't participate at all, instead pings '!' '!' '!' like mad* *{{champion:22}}: **no aggro farm only*** And Riot expects me not to flame the s^&* out of c^&*cksucker...
: Because riot loathes fun. Off-meta goofy builds and shit were a blast, but these days everything has to be 100% ideal meta picked from the top 5% of "strong meta picks" or you'll get flamed by your team all game and lose. Seriously. It's like people don't understand that it's a GAME and supposed to be FUN. I'm trying to win, I just like being oddball and creative about it. I miss the days of AP Xin Zhao or Tristana, Bruiser TF or ADC LeBlanc. I miss going into normals and sometimes seeing a team that picked 5 supports for the lulz. EVERY FREAKING GAME these days is the same 10 champs over and over again, arranged slightly differently each match.
Thing is, most of this stuff was fun to play indeed but was super-unfun to play against. I sure like hell miss AP Tristana, but I sure like hell don't miss being on the receiving end. At some point, Rito decided that fun balance of goofy builds doesn't check out.
Slythion (NA)
: since when has Shaclone been relevant? Dude whines so much btw, didn't he get perma'd?
If perming ever stopped anyone, Rito wouldn't need to taylor Taylor1.
Rioter Comments
DacT1 (NA)
: Don't miss
: > [{quoted}](name=ScarletSkolver,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3Fgee66t,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-04-16T10:51:11.020+0000) > > Azirs kit does to much > > that's literally it. So does Orianna's, just from a little less range. They're really similar, and Ori only lacks a few things Azir has, and Ori doesn't have to put herself in danger in order to burst with R. They both have medium-long range (Ori's is a little less) DPS, and while Azir's does a bit more in terms of DPS, Ori wins in burst/dps. They both have 100-0 potential, except Azir needs to E in and R, which can be more powerful, but since it risks Azir, Ori's long range R is usually better. It can also be combo'd with a Zac or Malphite. Orianna has worse escapes, but makes up for it by being tankier with her shield and passive resists. Azir can get a shield too, but then he has failed his escape (besides R). On the other hand, Ori's shield hurts you for getting in it's way. They can both kite you and turn it around, and while Azir's ult and DPS lets him do that a bit easier, Ori can also definitely do it. They both have AoE, Ori's ball and Azir's Q+autos. They both have good teamfighting+wombo's, except Azir's puts him at risk and puts him behind the enemy team - admittedly, with a wall in the way, but a wall is (usually) no substitute for teammates, which Ori's hiding behind. They both have waveclear, Ori can kill minions very quickly from high range with 2 Q's and a W, while Azir can soldier them. Except Azir kinda leaves himself at risk because unless he keeps a W charge, he has no way to help himself (for the small windows of his short Q CD, anyway). Ori has her E to give her a shield, resists, and put her ball on herself.
> Orianna has worse escapes, but makes up for it by being tankier with her shield and passive resists. That's an UNDERSTATEMENT of the year. How Orianna's shield "makes up for" Azir's ability to dash _almost 2k god damn units_ and to create a wall IMPASSABLE for 90 or more percent of all champions? Compared with Orianna, Azir is fucking Superman Prime of untouchability.
: I found that Mordekaiser's Q adds 2 phsycial damage when attacking a turret
Disable immediately until fixed. I don't care it's Christmass.
: So, it's not the coins that are interactive, but the fact that it's a worse Spellthief's that makes it interactive? Because I'm telling you right now, there's no point to being forced to "interact" if you could be rewarded significantly more from said interactions using Spellthief's.
You don't know how much the coins are worth.
: How is "picking up coins" interactive?
You need to walk up to the coin, giving enemies chance to _interact_ with you(i.e. poking you), and forcing you to _interact_ back (poking back, stunning them so they won't poke you etc.) It's certainly more engaging for both sides than "stay back and cast shield" playstyle.
Kyunsei (EUW)
: Fighter Taric is dead, mainly cause his spam ability cost 140 manas for a pitiful amount of heal. Cost for Q should be calculated through number of stack.
The reason why the cost for Q is constant is exactly to not allow Taric to spam it.
resumed (NA)
: well rip ancient coin i guess
Making certain enchanter's playstyle more interactive than "stay back and be safe" is a good thing.
: I agree that Ahri does need a small nerf or two but 54% really isn't "absurd". That's winning basically 13 games out of 24 instead of 12. One game difference over 24 games. I've had far more games affected by feeders, trolls, and afk's than that.
You can read it that way, or you can read it "10% free wins".
Eedat (NA)
: The solution to bring the Bot Lane Mage 'supports' back to Mid is simple
> This crushes these champs in the support role while not harming them mid. That's not true. Lowering base damages in favor of scalings hurts you terribly in any sub-optimal scenario. Champions in question already have big trouble keeping up in midlane when enemies have strong jungler, or when assassins are present(except Malz). The problem would get further accentuated with lowered bases, especially since there are only a few heavy AP items left to choose from. This is not to say that I wouldn't like to see Zyra and Malz GTFO botlane(others less so), but it's not as simple as it seems to do without completely fucking those champions over.
Rioter Comments
GangcAte (EUW)
: Pantheon and Quinn - hug your tower, freeze the lane near it. Darius - save your dashes to escape AFTER he pulls you in (don't use them offensively) Fiora - do not 1v1 her, you won't win. Fiora outduels literally everyone in the game if you play her correctly.
TBH, Fiora played poorly still outduels about 95% of champion roster.
  Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Hellioning,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=KxKRgHqP,comment-id=000300030003,timestamp=2017-04-08T01:08:28.305+0000) > > Zhonya's is almost as effective against a mage as it is against an AD champ, though. because the active doesn't scream "anti ad". It just screams "avoid damage/cc and hope you aren't left to rot when you get out of stasis"
Also because Stasis typically screws AP champions more than AD champions. If you stasis a part of two of say Brand's or Lux's combo, you are fine - they are not killing you this time, it doesn't matter that you don't have MR, or that they are fed. Meawhile Zed or Talon, if any ahead(and they are ahead, since you bought extremely stat-ineffcient item) can just autoattack you to death.
Rioter Comments
zaqat (EUNE)
: AD champs and minions
The point is basic attacks are not gated by anything, you can use them at any time for no cost. Meanwhile, most abilities will have cooldown, cost and/or some counterplay (like being a skillshot). That's why additional protection from basic attacks is needed. It is important to note that this doesn't apply only to ranged basic attacks - in most melee matchups minion aggression is what keeps the more dominant laner from completely zoning the other.
: Yeah, putting points into Q will make your empowered autos deal like 2-3 more damage to minions per rank. It's just really unsatisfying to put points into an ability that doesn't feel like it's getting any stronger at all.
The whole point of this nerfs is that Riot wants Shen to suck ass at killing minions because he doesn't pay the price other splitpushers do(not being able to join their team without burning a summoner spell). This way Shen's team is under pressure to make use of Stand United before Shen loses more(i.e. his tower falls) than Stand United can gain.
: Most champions get way more than 120 base damage on their utility, ffs. I don't care about extra damage to champions, I want my minion damage back.
120 base damage is a huge buff, no matter how much you don't like to admit it. It's not like it's all damage Shen's Q does, it's damage is getting _increased_ by that amount. Buff Empower by 120 and you will see Jax go to Kassadin-level ban rate overpatch. > I don't care about extra damage to champions, I want my minion damage back. But that's the whole point. You, and other Shen players, don't even want to fight you enemy at all. Shen just sits eternally in one lane, locking one enemy with him, and waits for something to happen on the other side of the map when the person he locked can't join. If that playstyle is ever going to be balanced and made healthy, the enemy that's locked with Shen needs to be able to shove minions into him super-easily, so that Shen's team is under pressure to take action before Shen loses too much.
agbudar (NA)
: no its not.... its totally not. not on a tank called shen who has about 400 base health less then garen at lvl 9 (and garen isnt even that high on the base health department)
Shen needs his base HP lower than champions like Garen, because he has absurdly powerful defense mechanisms in form of Ki Barrier and Spirit Refuge. This is completely irrelevant here.
: The 15 base damage stays at 15. It doesn't rank up.
It doesn't rank up with ability, but it does scale with Shen's xp level.
: So, Shen is getting nerfed everywhere again.
> 15 base damage on Q (This is a fucking joke) How is a total of 45 damage on lvl 1, which gets to 120 by 16, on a spammable ability _a fucking joke_? Changes are still a nerf overall, obviously, but 120 damage each 5 seconds is huge for a tank.
: Riot, before you nerf Rakan...
No chance they will let Rakan mid. With high AP he turns into worse version of tank Ekko.
: @Riot, A reasoned response on the Shen nerfs
> With the new Shen changes on the PBE, potentially Shen will have zero abilities that affect minions and zero way to push the lane. NONE. The only way he can push the lane is to auto attack. Which is barely relevant, since 99,99% of Shens get both Cape and Hydra.
: No I meant that for every champ listed. None of them are particularly overbearing to the point where counterplay doesn't exist. I was just calling out the op for getting on the front page for giving a list of champs he isn't good enough to fight. I don't see the point of you making assumptions like that, I mean sure the champs are open to slight changes (like every other champ in the game) but I don't neccisaraly see a reason why they NEED TO BE NERFED IMMEDIATELY. I think its just the op's incompetence that leads him to think this. Idk why you decided to go on a tirade about ahri and disregard inconvenient causation while using the results, its a bit dishonest tbh. Now listen to this, there is no statistical evidence to support that there is a behavioral reason for ahris winrate, but there is statistical evidence to support that she has the most mains
A champion does not need to be broken beyond counterplay to require nerfs. Being noticeably stronger than rest of the roster is more than enough.
: Why does Aatrox need a full resource bar to revive?
Aatrox old revive was by far the best of those, because it was guaranteed(unlike Zac or Anivia who can be killed), and actually revived him(unlike Sion and Karthus who just get few bonus seconds, and in weakened state). That's why it needed additional gating. Moreover, Aatrox has another extremely powerful form of sustain, combined with reviving it was too much to be balancable. Aatrox needs buffs now, I guess, but it should be easier to buff him now.
xVnFEmma (EUW)
: Why don't we buff Amumu until we see him in the LCS?
Mumu is The Head of Bronzodia for a reason. If he is buffed until competitive viability, he won't be "bashing" in low elo, but completely game ruining.
Jango Mage (EUNE)
: If riot wont add any Magic Pen items for Ap assasins...
They don't add any more mpen items not because "mages would abuse them", but because squishy champions have non-scaling MR, and they are not needed. Moreover, mages and ap assassins damage patterns are much more similar to each other than marksmen and ad assassins, so there is little need to differentiate itemization for them. I know that after reading boards for some time it might seem like everything in this game is about "melee vs ranged", but it's really not.
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