Häxel (EUW)
: Seeing as potential old and new Users are {{champion:58}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:266}} (all champions with an activation Ult), 3 of these not using mana and Jax also not a guy who ever had big Mana Problems for eneding to buy a manaitem beside his Trinity - it makes the item even better, as they also not have to pay for a useless {{item:1027}} which most could not use. And iit will be an open question if {{champion:236}} will continue to buy new Spear or jsut go for reverted ER for the mana passive and the readded crit which opens him up to go altegame for more of a crit build.
just to clarify, when you look at the here described spear of shojin, it is the exact same item as the current essence reaver minus the mana passive for the same price, so for champions like {{champion:92}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:58}} the item would have just stay the exact same as on liveas they weren't using the mana passive anyways, so while it wouldn't have been any worse it also wouldn't have been any better. For champs like {{champion:24}} the item would have been just a little worse, but I agree with you, I don't think this would had much impact on {{champion:24}} buying the item or not But I'm glad they changed Spear of Shojin a bit so it's not only a worse version of current Essence Reaver, but maybe an item people would actually buy outside of very niche situations
Galiö (NA)
: I can kind of agree with that. Maybe if the secondary crit item options can have damage built in and leave the attack speed/crit items in the zeal path. I remember phreak made a video suggesting to move away from attack speed into damage and I think maybe that way can be best of both worlds. I think itll also be healthier for the game for IE to stay a third item, kind of like a rabadon (even though that's rarely third and sometimes 4th) If that makes sense, or is a logical solution. Edit; So it can be Zeal item, secondary crit item that likely has damage, into IE
I think the problem is that you the Attack speed and the crit from the Zeal items to do proper damage while also needeing Somthing like IE or the new proposed Essence Reaver to get some AD to make those crits actually do any damage, and for most ADCs IE feels better in pretty much every case Rabandons just gives a bunch of AP, and gives even more AP if you already have a lot, so it fits in better as a 3rd/4th/5th item, it's nice to get the 250+ AP then, but it's not really neccessary to do damge For ADCs on the other hand, you want to get at least 50% crit as fast as possible while also gaining some AD to make the crits and more importantly the non crits actually doing damage, therefor you almost always want to get IE at either as first or as second item, so you do damage as soon as possible
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Crit Item Explorations Part 2
As it isn't mentioned here, i wonder what will happen to Sormrazor? Will it be removed or changed or just stay the same? I feel like a combination of Stormrazor+IE into zeal could be real strong
Galiö (NA)
: Yes I do know that. That's why i said back to that direction, rather than reverted. I semi prefer where it is now even if it steps on penetration/lethalities toes. However in the three item example in was trying to explain, it's hard to fit lethality or a last whisperer item into that. It would need to be 2 crit items and then a big item, likely IE. Last whisperer should prob be catered to on hit champions. (Edit: Forgot it shares unique with Rageblade so that's awkward) So bork, into something, into last whisperer. Will fill similar niches in different ways. The build path for IE (not to get too off topic) is better but the end result is still problematic. Edit: So I imagine build pathes to be Marksmen A: Primary crit, secondary crit, big item (IE?) Marksmen B: Bork, rageblade, nashors or runaans? item path Marksmen C: Primary crit, essence reaver, big item Marksmen D: Bork, speak of shojin, situational item (these are prob the marksmen that dont hold up late game) Marksmen F: Bork, essence reaver, situational (this is more likely for the more utility/caster like marksmen)
I don't think you can wait for ie to be your third item to finish, as you need some sort of AD to make crits actually hurt I'd say your Marskman A would look more like: BF Sword/Pickaxe --> Zeal item --> finished IE --> 2nd Zeal item Pretty much the exact same as you needed before they changed IE I feel like this makes your buildpath again pretty inflexible up to 3 items+boots, back in the days it always felt bad to have to buy a none crit item as 3rd, as you sat only on 50% crit then for a long time EDIT: just relized there is no mention of Sormrazor, so if it stays around with roughly the same stats Stormrazor --> IE --> Zeal item fells like a real strong buy, as it gives 50% crit, a ton of ad to feed into those 225% crits and the guaranteed crit at the start of a fight
: **Phantom Dancer ** * Still hate this proposed change. Make spectral waltz work on ADCs by increasing it's radius. Leave Lament as it is. If the range on the MS is abused by melee hypercarries (lookin at you yasuo) then make the radius scale with attack range, or be locked at melee=550 ranged equal=650/700? * Introduce a fifth zeal item if you want a defensive crit item. **Kirchei's Shard** * 600g price point still makes this a pretty shit item. I'd almost always take double dagger over it. Exception being I only have 1 item slot. With only 15% attack speed the passive simply does not make up for the stats. **RFC/Statikk** * Exchanging 5% crit for 2% movement speed is reducing the gold value in most cases. On ADCs with 325 ms, 2% is an increase of 6.5 (or 7.4 with t2 boots). If you feel those two are overtuned thats another matter. Otherwise its just shaving of ~110-120 gold efficiency. * I agree with only giving 25% crit chance, but maybe a bit more value elsewhere? Unless, as I mentioned, you want them to be a tad weaker. **Hurricane** * Just straight loses 200g in stats? No compensation? Do you honestly think it's out of line with the others that it shouldn't get something back? **ER** * Love it. **Spear of Shojin** * I'm curious to hear a Red's thoughts on the passive it has in Nexus Blitz. Were you not satisfied with it, so you gave it Essence Flare? Or do you think Shojin's passive has potential but you aren't ready to add it yet? * This is going to be even better for the current ER abusers (looking at you Renekton), but I'm not sure what ADCs will love it. Most that were buying it liked the mana refund, and considered Essence Flare passable (its not the most efficient combo for Lucian; Varus fared better using it in teamfights to get additional spell cycles). Separating those two, I'm not sure who still wants it. If its intended for ADCs at all... **IE** * Nothing special. Not really sure how this will land. * Slightly cheaper, 25% less amp and 5 more AD than old version - I feel like this just puts us back to the old crit issues. **LW** * Huge buff to LW's gold value. Now it actually feels like getting it has some value relative to its upgrades
I agree on most of the point, but Spear of Shojin is pretty much the same as the current Essence Reaver, same price same stats, just minus the mana refund and minus the 300 mana The loss of the mana alone makes it lose ~400 gold value, for champions like Renekton or Riven Spear of Shojin would be the exact same as the current Essence Reaver, no change whatsoever, as they can't use those two stats of current Essence Reaver anyways, but on everybody else it would just straight up be worse, so if anything it would make the item even less appealing for champions that could do well with this in theory
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Crit Item Explorations Part 2
I really don't like the change to PD {{item:3046}}, i feel like it would be better to make another zeal item with this lifeline passive, maybe make the PD passive also a lifeline passive so they can't be combined but I really don't feel like the reduced attack speed and the shield passive fits PD
Häxel (EUW)
: Does no one here sees that Spear of shojin is just current Essense Reaver?
it sort of is, Spear of Shojin {{item:3161}} is the current Essence Reaver {{item:3508}} minus the on-hit mana refund and minus the 300 mana, for the same price I don't really see this item being any better than the current essence reaver as it is just a worse version of it

Brotmensch123

Level 197 (EUW)
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