: Oh she up to a 95% ban rate with a 60% winrate? > Kek nope she’s at 48% winrate and 6% ban rate. Yep she defiantly deserves to be compared to kassawin... She’s actually the 38th worst mid champ... Seems like she needs some major buffs if anything.
FireDrizzle (EUNE)
: Creepblock still terrible
I do agree with you to some degree, but creep block doesn't get really bad that often. What has been happening to me lately multiple times however is that, while I was standing in the brush near to the enemy Tier 1 in the Bottom Lane without the enemy having vision of that brush and me not triggering anything that would pull minion aggro towards me, minions would just run straight into the brush and focus me for no reason while just ignoring my own minions. I get really confused when this happens, and it happens more and more often.
Sszy2204 (EUW)
: Mastery 6&7 Price
Yeah, you pretty much need at least 3 (or how many? I think 3 level ups wouldn't be enough) level ups to get enough essence to upgrade to a new mastery level, and in my opinion, this is way too much for something which is purely cosmetic. Before the BE rework, you pretty much only spent 1700 IP on a Champion Shard and that was it most of the times, but now you have to grind a lot for it.
: Why are people so upset about the Sightstone changes?
Because it ruins a lot of playstyles Supports have been picking up. And by the way >It’s 800 - 1600 gold that you don’t have to spend anymore AND a free item slot. is not close to being true. You see, the new Tier 3 Support items are 1500/1800/1900. That's -100/+200/+300 compared to {{item:2045}} , as well as only 400 less than {{item:2302}} {{item:2301}} {{item:2303}} . And they're nerfed versions of those as you don't get the quest reward anymore. And a free Item slot? Complete nonsense. You'd already have had a "free" item slot if you were to choose to go with the Eye of <> Tier 3 item. Or you could go with {{item:2045}} and fill that "free" item slot with a convenient Active item {{item:3069}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3401}} .
SEKAI (OCE)
: If only Ivern could instantly "free" epic monsters like Dragons and Baron...
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VJQA7dcY,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-01-13T17:59:31.226+0000) > > If only Ivern could instantly &quot;free&quot; epic monsters like Dragons and Baron... You know Ivern would be the most disgustingly overpowered champ since the invention of the lightbulb and you'd literally always have to ban him?
: PSA: doing bad as an off-meta pick =/= inting/trolling
Well, if you play Klepto Skarner Toplane, that's actually inting. Depends on how bad it is.
: skin schedule is honestly so fucked
It should have been Taliyah instead of Lux.
Total77 (EUNE)
: ***
lol you're Plat 5 on EUNE and tell someone to get good because they're "Gold Elo". You sound like a fun person.
: "I'm high/Drunk" in ranked needs to be a bannable offense
Yes. Even in normals, it's pretty dumb to let this pass. I once had an Ashe on my team who, after dying for the first time in lane said "I'm high af" and then went on playing accordingly, I believe her final scoreline was something like 1/18 or something, not quite sure anymore though.
: make relic shield melee only. "if thresh cant use it, nobody can use it" is a shit philosophy for mangling the entire fucking item for the entire stock of melee tank supports.
Pretty much, yes.
: Where do you guys get this info from, i looking at patch 8.01 i see no changes like this.
: On the other hand, you now have a free Sightstone with your gold income item. All they need to do is re-introduce Shurelias and Twin Shadows as a support item that doesn’t suck and supports can “feel good” about being able to purchase real items rather than two bootleg income items and whatever OP healing/shielding item of the patch.
Well, what you're saying is true, but most Support mains, just like me, are not happy with losing the current Quest rewards for the sake of being able to ward because Riot removed our Sightstone. These changes are actually not really more than forcing Supports to buy a nerfed version of {{item:2303}} {{item:2302}} {{item:2301}} instead of leaving them the choice between those and the Actives ( {{item:3401}} {{item:3069}} {{item:3092}} ) combined with {{item:2045}} . Frostfang and Targon's Brace rewards are really satisfactory, Nomad's Medallion's reward is less noticeable but neat for defensive Heal/Shield-Supports, for whom this item is intended for. It's also balanced out by the advantage in Gold Generation Ancient Coin users get. That leads me to the next point: Ancient Coin users will get their "free Sightstone" way faster than everyone else, while Frostfang users are even taking risks concerning this, as they may be locked out of gold generation if their laning phase ends early, as they cannot get their Frostfang to proc without any enemy champions or turrets nearby. And the removal of Ruby Sightstone hurts Tank/initiation supports. Alistar, Leona, Blitzcrank, Thresh, Nautilus, Braum etc. will not like the removal of Ruby Sightstone as they rely heavily on Active Items to peel for their carries, as they have few to no heals and shields in their actual kit. Leona, Blitzcrank and Nautilus don't have any shields for their allies, Alistar has his passive that will only proc if an enemy dies in the fight, Thresh only has his Lantern which is a big cooldown, and Braum also has no shield or heal in the sense of casting a spell on your ally and them being able to absorb some damage for some time after. He has his E which blocks projectiles coming from one direction and his W that will give the allied target bonus resistances, but no spells that really *shield* your ally. So the {{item:3401}} Active is nice to have, but the 20% Item CDR you get from {{item:2045}} will also help reduce cooldowns from things like {{item:3190}} {{item:3222}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3800}} etc. See where I'm going with this?
: And rakan. Rakan has a 300 ranged attack range. I mean come on just make him melee
True, I've always been bothered by that. I just didn't talk about him because I've almost never seen him use Relic Shield, even though it would somehow be a nice strategy when I think about it honestly.
Lesstle (EUNE)
: Which is the most CANCER champion in the game?
Anything else than Zoe would be a straight lie
  Rioter Comments
SatomiKun (EUW)
: Honestly, considering how Relic Shield functions, it was obvious that ADCs will use it at some points. {{item:3301}} Can't be used by ADCs, since coins just drop from minions you didn't kill yourself. {{item:3303}} Can't be used efficiently, since csing slows down the passive generation. {{item:3097}} This is the only gold generating support item without such a limiter. There is no downside if a csing champion uses it, he gets the full benefit of the gold share. Which is pretty good in a lane with 2 champions by default. You don't want Relic Shield being abused by ADCs? Then do the same you did for the other 2 support items and put a limiter on it, preventing farming champs from taking it. This is not the fault of ADCs, it's just that this item hasn't an anti-abuse mechanic built into it like the other 2.
But what kind of limiter would be good for that? The only thing I could think of is making it so you can't last hit minions if you don't have a Spoils of War charge, but I don't know if that would be a good solution. I think it would be a better idea to make Relic Melee only, but then that would fuck over Thresh.
: Face of the mountain needs to hotfixed immediately.
Making it melee only would be a good idea, but Thresh would suffer a thousand deaths if you did that
: It seems like it was a knee-jerk over reaction to other lanes building them. Honestly, the only one that was probably over powered was ADCs with Relic and Overheal, but whatever lets nerf supports and open up eight more problems to deal with instead. :/
EXACTLY THIS. Not like we could just nerf Overheal. Frostfang on Junglers and Mages/AP Assassins isn't that bad. It's a good strategy, but not close to being overpowered. But Targon's + Overheal? Broken. But let's just fuck over the entire Support role because ADCs want to be overpowered all the time and will do anything to achieve it. Instead of nerfing the damn rune that started all of this mess. Honestly, removing Overheal and replacing it with something else would probably be a better solution than this.
noukinn (NA)
: Know what would be nice? If the next batch of patches were NOTHING but nerfs across the board
I support this. Especially Zoe. Nerf her E. Into the ground. Nerfs in this patch really weren't enough. Nerf her sleep duration so she doesn't have what feels like 5 minutes to set up her nuke after she sends someone to sleep and also nerf the duration that it stays on the ground for because it's annoying to have a massive trap that will more than likely kill you if you walk into it on the ground for what feels like half of eternity. Thanks.
Branyace (EUW)
: Man, this decision sounds so bad. Removing the existing choice that supports have and streamlining the build down feels like a super bad decision without adding more items to replace those options at the same time as this change. Face of the Mountains active will be sorely missed by many including myself, it was a great way to have an impact in fights by allowing you to change the outcome by saving a carry from the brink of going down, even in the early to mid game. You could even use it to bait a fight that your opponent would lose as they would not count on a small shield so early being able to turn the fight. I’ve not felt forced into building any particular item in at least two seasons and I don’t see how “saving players from having to spend 800 gold” is going to do anything but streamline build paths when it’s replacement is going to remove so many of the options that supports had. Besides, some of us feel that 800 gold invested into an item for early vision is well worth it, especially when the enemy jungler/mid have set their sights on constantly tanking bot lane, now what do we do to help prevent early dives bot? I feel like removing the option of more early vision is going to limit the game to either none stop early ganks bot, or even worse, 50 min + slugfest games where people are so unable to make calculated plays, because of a lack of vision information, that everyone picks high scaling champs and farms until late game as the risk of making a play without knowing where the enemy is moving is not worth simply gaining gold by the more reliable method of cs. I really hope that riots design team have thought about the impact that a seemingly unnecessary decision will have on the game. Why remove so many items to create “more choice for supports” instead of adding more or changing existing items to meet the same goal?
Thanks for putting "more choice for supports" in quotation marks, as it actually is quite the opposite. Hell, all of this reads like Ajit Pai talking about how repealing Net Neutrality will restore Internet Freedom. (I mean the announcement, not your comment)
ItsLowbo (NA)
: Changes to Sightstone/Support Items coming to PBE
Riot. Please consider this. The feedback on this thread is massively negative. You have been critiqued for not listening to your playerbase's concerns and wants in the past, so now would be the chance for you to prove to us that you care. Do not let this change happen. It's not good.
: Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.1
How much backlash would there have to be for you to cancel the Sightstone changes? Sorry, I'm just REALLY not fond of the idea at all.
kjono1 (EUW)
: I personally don't like it. so straight of the bat, cost wise I have to buy e.g frostfang and a ruby crystal + (some amount of money in combining them, and I have a quest of 500 gold to earn (presumably through the support item. So ruby crystal costs 400 gold Frostfang costs 600 gold There is some combination cost and I have to earn 500 gold through the gold gen item So now instead of "a mandatory 800 gold purchase in the early game" as you put it I need to earn over 1500 just to be able to ward, how is this useful in anyway for a support that already relies on getting gold? Then if you look at sightstone and a frostfang cost 1650, so I'm saving nothing in gold (since there will have to be a combination cost) to have to wait longer for an important item? So if we lose lane we are forced into our team falling even more behind because we haven't yet been able to complete the quest? Which brings me onto my next point. Sometimes I would go for sightstone first before upgrading my gold generation item. Now you might be thinking it's not gold efficient and yes the later you upgrade spellthiefs to frostfang the less gold you have _ later on in the game_ through the items passive, **however**, in the early game you can earn more up to the 21st minute where an early upgrade at ~500 gold would give you have roughly a 10 gold lead, whereas ~15 seconds before hand. you have roughly 40 gold lead through not upgrading. The reason I do for this is that sightstone grants that little bit more sustain with it's health and the vision can be vital in lane, this is especially useful when falling behind a bit.So you fall behind a bit in gold later but you gain stats earlier, and that little bit more sustain from sightstone and vision control can be vital in getting back into the game and regaining that gold lead through assists that you wouldn't have gotten through being so far behind without the sightstone's advantages. Occasionally that 350 extra health and +20% active item cdr can be more useful than +50health a bit of mana and +10%cdr (especially since a good few support items offer cdr anyway), and a total of ** up to** 3 seconds worth of increased movement speed every 30 seconds. You are trying to give us more diversity in our choices ("Supports will be able to make more choices ") but are taking away options that require actual thought of what's more benificial in certain games? Say you are playing Nami, there are roughly 8 support items that could be considered useful on her: Ardent censer, athene’s unholy grail, banner of command, locket of the iron solari, knight’s vow, mikael’s cruicible, redemption, zeke’s convergence. some such as knight vow aren't as effective since she is ranged, others such as banner, mikael's, etc are situational based upon enemy team, then you get ardent which really depends on your team and if there is a champ that can make strong use of it, shame we have Lucian, Elise, Ekko one trick and Susan still stacking in the top lane. Locket is great but nami doesn't have huge amounts of bonus health, _what was that ruby sightstone useful for again?_ Zeke's again great if we have an ability focussed adc, oh wait no it's not. So yeah there might be a range of useful items to pick but you are removing some of them along with sightstone, then whats left is entirely situational, so we just have to build an unnecessary item now because you wan't to change something that is not actually a problem. Sightstone is an extremely important item, saying, "the game doesn’t break down from a lack of early vision." is nonsense because oh we just lost a baron we didn't know was getting done because we are now down on wards since we need to do a quest effectively costing more that it would for a sightstone early on. Oh no now we are being ganked, and mid is roaming bot for a 4 man tower dive but we don't know that because uh no vision. Sightstone is also useful in spotting players out of position. The 3 wards are important in the lane, say you are on blue side, that's one for denying the enemy in lane bush control, one in river/tribush/over the wall where the blast plant is, and one at dragon with the control behind the red buff or river bush to watch for ganks. Same goes for red side but in different positions. It seems that most likely autofilled players dislike the fact they are expected to spend gold on a useful item, whist going full ap, putting their adc behind by stealing farm, and half the time starting doran's ring and putting themselves behind also and so you are deciding to remove it from the game, even though support mains have no problem whatsoever buying the item.
Yes, exactly. Riot, please. Us support mains would suffer a thousand deaths with these changes.
ItsLowbo (NA)
: Changes to Sightstone/Support Items coming to PBE
Riot. Please. This change? You know who this change is good for? Autofill supports. Us Support Mains? What do we get? A tasty punch in the face is what we get. I wouldn't mind this change just as much if it weren't for the fact I won't be able to access the 20% Active Item CDR on Ruby Sightstone. I have been playing around that combined with the Ingenious Hunter rune literally all preseason, and now that the actual season is about to start, this is what I get. It actually makes me physically sick. Now autofill supports can just do whatever they want because their income item just gives them their sightstone for free and won't get punished anymore for skipping the Sightstone entirely and going Full AP Brand Support because they're not fulfilling the most important task of a support, which is vision. I beg you. Don't do this to me. Or at least give me the active item CDR from RS in some other form. If it was included in the quests in some way, I would kiss your feet. Edit: I've read about most other Support mains being upset about these changes as well. Please take into consideration that a largerthanyouwouldexpect portion of the playerbase does not approve of these changes at all and doesn't want these drastic changes to their main role. I've read about your concerns about CDR stacking when it comes to Zz'Rot and Red Trinket, but I think you could just nerf those cooldowns instead of fucking over literally every Support Main there is. Edit 2: The more I think about these changes, the worse it gets. Please Riot, for the love of god, don't do this. It will literally ruin the entire game. Not just for the Supports. For everyone.

CethysRNF

Level 62 (EUW)
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