Ralanr (NA)
: I usually grab steraks over stoneplate if I’m ahead enough.
The main issues I see with Steraks is cost and the fact that it isn't that effective early on (because lower base AD and lower bonus HP but you could also just look at it as the item scaling with you) Though when stuck in a 1v1 Steraks is much better compared with Stoneplate (and most tanks do need to lane and deal with 1v1 fights unless they are a jungler or support) There is also the slight downside that AD isn't necessarily all that useful some tanks though there is quite a few tanks that have something tied to their AA maybe because Riot want tanks to have something to do while their abilities are on cooldown {{champion:3}} passive {{champion:111}} passive {{champion:516}} passive {{champion:57}} passive {{champion:54}} W {{champion:98}} Q {{champion:33}} Passive {{champion:78}} Passive
Ralanr (NA)
: Thing is, you’re not going to be able to make tank items undesirable to other classes unless it hampers them since all classes enjoy some defense. And hampering isn’t fun (it’s why I rarely ever build stoneplate in the first place). Riot inflates the base stats of tanks because it allows tanks to get more durable than others through the same items. The problem is that durability through resistance (shield or resistances) doesn’t work that well anymore. Healing ends up being the stronger form of survival, especially when scaled with high damage. Few real tanks have built in healing in their kits (Maokai is all I can think of).
> And hampering isn’t fun (it’s why I rarely ever build stoneplate in the first place). I mean Stoneplate is fairly good for it's cost but it has some issues in that resistances aren't valued all that much especially with how powerful % based penetration is and True Damage (and it isn't that slot efficient) However AD scaling tanks can also go with Steraks Gage {{item:3053}} which gives HP rather than resistances and it also have a lower cooldown (60s compared with 90) and it also gives more damage not less (And most tanks have rather high base AD) Yes you do have less control but then again it is usually when you take a lot of damage that you want it to trigger It is meant to be a Juggernaut item but with how much damage there is I don't think the shield is going to decay much so it should be fairly effective for tanks as well and if they ignore the tank well at least they have a little more punch in their AA's (and maybe abilities) the main issue is cost but if you have full build you might as well sell one of the cheaper and less slot efficient tank items for Steraks Gage
: Let’s look at why tanks are currently not of high value
> People will point out that tanks need damage and I don’t disagree. They need to be able to lane and clear jungles, but they also need to have reasonable damage. Well you could maybe make a tank that didn't have much damage if you somehow gave them a way to quickly or safely clear waves.... but that would lead to very little interaction (do the lane opponent have enough damage to kill or threaten the tank and prevent them from clearing the wave the lane opponent win if not they lose or at least can't do much) Pretty much the whole proxy Singed thing where if it took too much time and effort to kill Singed you would get less gold and exp compared with just sitting under tower and farming your own wave (especially when CS didn't affect dying/killing sprees so Singed could be worth like 50 gold if you were able to kill him a lot) So yeah tanks need some damage or else they won't ever interact with their lane opponent (why would they?)
: I like the idea of it being AOE, but without any real reference for how long a .25 second delay is, I wouldn't want Melee's to be just more fucked than ranged folk, just for sake of being melee. I'd want it to be at least somewhat fair enough to be able to dodge potentially, but like said, not too familiar with how a .25 second delay feels.
I mean melee champions (at least ones with gap closers) likely won't struggle that much with this ability especially if they gap closer puts them behind Fiddlesticks or is free targeting As cones have quite tinny starting AoE and combined with the delay it might not actually be all that easy hitting melee champions (though they are especially punished if they happen to get hit)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 28
> Tahm Kench > > We've got some work underway on TK changes for 9.14. Focus on those is more on reducing frustration playing against him than just balance adjustments, frustration in top lane especially. A key part of the direction we're currently exploring is reducing his ability to repeatedly CC the same target. Hopefully it will also make it easier for TK to CC multiple targets to make TK support more viable other than being a "support" same way as a mage support by beating the opponent down with damage and durability
: Not sure what game you guys were playing, but losing to a counter in the past was way worse. You could easily be zoned from not just CS, but also XP. Laning vs ranged champions was much more difficult than it is now.
I feel like the game also had more sandbag kind of champions before... like Morgan mid/top (she generally didn't kill anyone but she wasn't easy to kill herself so she generally went even in most lanes basically sandbagging the lane) of course the reason for this is that riot thinks that such champions/playstyles aren't interactive and fun enough Though there was also way back when there were masteries that had a flat reduction in minion/monster damage allowing you to basically ignore the minion wave (yes that was OP but at least it made it easier to deal with range champions as you could basically ignore the minion wave and fight in it with no care)
: > [{quoted}](name=NY64,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yLWg3Ewk,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-06-28T03:05:40.558+0000) > > So how would Tahm be defined. To me he seems like a mix of both (mostly a juggernaut in my opinion). He can perform both but doesn’t excel at either. Well, it USED to be that he was a tank and support. It was just that the Devour is too good, and now the Tongue with his passive is too good for sustained stunlocking. But the thing is, he's only good 1v1. Teamfights, he has to stick with peeling with his Devour, and movement with his ulti. So I wouldn't call him a juggernaut, just a misplaced support tank who is too good in a sololane.
> Teamfights, he has to stick with peeling with his Devour, and movement with his ulti. To be fair his Devour isn't all that great peeling as it is basically like a Zhonyas but worse as instead of AoE and such missing or DPS and Assassins hanging around because their target can no longer take damage the damage will now likely go into Tahm (and Tahm and his ally isn't going anywhere fast with the slow and grounded effect) It's only use is against burst damage (though it does require Tahm to basically sit on the one he wants to protect because of the low range and Tahm not having the mobility to quickly enough get to a target unless the burst is really slow and telegraphed) or to protect an ally while the rest of the team is able to push the enemies away Though Tahm can really screw over juggernauts or basically any immobile melee champion thanks to his low cooldown slow/stun And I personally really don't like the way Tahm's ultimate is... it is very difficult to make good use out of it without being premade (voice chat) except as a split pushing tool or when Tahm is strong enough to just use it to jump on someone by himself.... and there is also the issue of it being so terrible at level 6 but being actually pretty decent/good at level 11+... which really really sucks for support Tahm as he isn't likely to get to 11+ anytime soon But that might just be me being biased wanting support Tahm back....
: PSA: Please remember Juggernauts =/= Tanks
> A juggernaut just fights whoever the hell he/she wants. Actually juggernaut usually just fight whoever they can get to as a lot of juggernauts don't have good mobility or target selection but they have usually have a lot of raw damage and can maul anyone they are actually able to get onto (Juggernauts also often have healing tied to hitting their abilities meaning that if they get kited they are not only prevented from dealing damage they are also often easier to kill)
: As support main i can assure you, that Support can't carry alone. Sure a good support means a hell of a difference, but will not win the game without at least one good teammate. Poker supports need the ADC to poke as well. Otherwise their trading will end up badly. Assuming the enemy is not an idiot. Tank supports need the ADC to ract the engage. Otherwise they just end up 2v1. Not engaging will lose the lane against poker, and protector support. Fast agains poker, and slow against protector. Protector support needs a teammate they can work with in teamfight. Someone worth protecting. That person is not neccessarily the ADC. Better give everything to a fed Yi, than a worthless Jihn as Lulu. As for building. They still got less gold. It's pretty much the weakness of the poker supports. If they fail to get some kills/assist early, then the lack of gold makes them worthless until late. I remember non-fed support Lux putting out whole combo on ADC, and dealt like 40% damage. Took like 3 seconds for him to get it back from lifesteal. As tank building QSS isn't much problem since mr. is good anyway. As protector building QSS means delaying other important items. Though their lack of items is not that critical.
> As tank building QSS isn't much problem since mr. is good anyway. As protector building QSS means delaying other important items. Though their lack of items is not that critical. And might not even be necessary especially if it is an engage tank who generally start off fights with their CC.... after all if the tank has already used their CC and utility then being able to absorb 100% of Mordekaisers damage on top of that isn't a bad thing (you are building to be able to soak damage so being given the perfect opportunity where the enemy is forced to damage you isn't necessarily a bad thing) Yes of course the tank will likely get crushed in the 1v1 but the 4v4 should favor the tanks team (though of course that depends a lot on the teams)
: I was wondering how support would work. How about tanks? Can tanks reasonably build QSS for mord?
To be fair Tanks if they aren't immediately ulted can often be a bad target simply because after they have used their ultimate and CC they don't mind being able to absorb 100% Mordekaisers damage while they have their CC on cooldown... yeah Mordekaiser will likely crush them in the 1v1 but they likely wouldn't have that much else to offer their team other than being a big body so that trade is beneficial to the tanks team assuming they don't somehow lose the 4v4 or are only able to go even Like if Malphite has already use his R + E and Q then him being pulled away doesn't really hurt his team much as he doesn't really have much left to aid his own team (or hamper the enemy team) so Malphite being able to absorb 100% of Mordekaisers damage for a while is clearly beneficial to Malphite
: can you hotfix tahm already?
It would be great to get back support Tahm Or I suppose he might still work as a "support" in the same way as Brand works as a support But we all know that isn't going to happen because of how much better his W is in pro play
Jaspers (EUW)
: Understanable but a lawful man would not murder those not directly involved with the ones he wants to overthrow. Even a tyrant needs subjects. Sylas didn't care, he killed for the sake of killing, even if he has a cause. Lawful usually means bound by rules or a moral code, he clearly is not. Darius is more Lawful Neutral.
> Lawful usually means bound by rules or a moral code, he clearly is not. How so? His moral code or rules could be almost anything as long as it is consistent and he values and follows them then he would be lawful wouldn't he? That is why lawful evil characters are a thing as they follow their own rules/morals but those rules morals don't need to be "good"
Vectros (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=OHminus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qPjVnO4p,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-03-30T23:24:49.736+0000) > > I'm sure if I scroll down there will be a bunch of bruiser mains screaming for tanks to be unviable as a whole > > "REEEE TANKS SHOULDN'T EVEN BE IN TOP LANE REEEE MAKE THEM GO JUNGLE OR SUPPORT REEEE TOP LANE IS FOR BRUISERS AND MELEE CARRIES ONLY REEEEE" As one who plays tanks and bruisers, but prefers playing bruisers...I think both should be viable in top and jungle. For lane matchups a bruiser should generally crush a tank in lane, but a tank is more useful come team fight time. Tanks should be able to do well in lane by principle of being able to soak up poke, imo-so long as the tank doesn't actively try to fight someone in an extended trade, they should be capable of getting farm without caring about whatever poke comes out. On the flip side, they shouldn't be capable of poking out their opponent. Both sides, when a tank is involved, should be reliant on ganks if they want to actually kill the other.
> Tanks should be able to do well in lane by principle of being able to soak up poke, imo-so long as the tank doesn't actively try to fight someone in an extended trade, they should be capable of getting farm without caring about whatever poke comes out. On the flip side, they shouldn't be capable of poking out their opponent. Tanks can't really soak up poke as they generally don't have that good sustain and tanks being able to farm without caring about poke would potentially be really dangerous... because tanks are good teamfighters/late game and if they are also able to easily get through lane without too much issue (they can shrug off poke) then why wouldn't you pick a tank (well in SoloQ you can't always rely on your team so maybe people still wouldn't pick tanks but still) And how low would a tanks base damages need to be for them to be unable to poke out even a squishy enemy champion probably very very low which would also likely mean they would never work as a jungler as their damage would be too low for them to be able to effectively farm the jungle at all
: Kaisa's shield ratio is at 16 is 150 + 200% AD + 75% ap, so the total shield should have been 488\*2 + 150 + 31\*.75 = 1,149.25 Something's missing but I have no idea. She doesn't have seraphic embrance and I don't see a support or something. Even with the revitalize rune it would bump it up to 1,264.175. Or it's a visual bug.
> [{quoted}](name=How Do You Meta,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6XXWtbiq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-31T16:25:13.294+0000) > > Kaisa's shield ratio is at 16 is 150 + 200% AD + 75% ap, so the total shield should have been 488\*2 + 150 + 31\*.75 = 1,149.25 > Something's missing but I have no idea. She doesn't have seraphic embrance and I don't see a support or something. Even with the revitalize rune it would bump it up to 1,264.175. > Or it's a visual bug. {{item:3046}} Can give up to 600 shield at level 18 which lasts for 2 seconds (though it is difficult to say if Kaisai took any damage that would trigger it but that is probably the case)
: The fact that game-length on average is longer this season than last season is irrelevant
> So what’s the issue? Really, this goes back to the game disproportionately favoring offense over defense. In the long run, it is necessary for offense to favor defense. Actually I think favoring defense over offense is fine IF and only IF the defense is reactive or otherwise have some setup or requirement which allows it to be played around or negated (but yes stat wise defense has to be weaker than offense in the late game but it is fine if defense spike harder or earlier) Obvious example of reactive defensive abilities being stronger than offensive ones are Fiora Ripost and Yasuo Windwall which can fully negate any offensive abilities or attacks (though Windwall do have some limitations on what it can negate)
: > [{quoted}](name=Strawberrycocoa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4nvEveK,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-28T17:36:27.227+0000) > > It just doesn't make any sense to me Let me explain. You can't have everything in your kit. The champions you mentioned (Divers) have some defensive abilities/sustain, but don't really have any innate tankiness or good base stats. As in, they die really fast. Those are the champions that created the meme "just cc them". That's their weakness. CC. If a squishy champion can't use their mobility spells to get away, and can't damage the backline, what are they going to do? That's right. They're going to die. Juggernauts are a bit different, they have a bunch of tankiness abilities/good base stats AND a lot of damage, however they don't have much mobility and basically just have to run at you. Their weakness is getting kited since they need to get up in your face to deal any damage. (idiot juggernaut players take note, teleport is dogshit please take Ghost if you want to win games ty) Tanks are obviously tanky, and they normally are loaded with CC. They need to rely on their base damage (and/or %hp damage in some cases) in order to kill people. This can become a problem when Riot overbuffs a tank's base stats or %hp damage since they aren't really supposed to deal damage in the first place, however they do need SOME damage to stay relevant in a non-competitive environment since you can't really carry a team if you don't deal any damage. Hope that cleared things up a bit for you! (I didn't mention marksmen or mages since they're a bit more complicated in relation to the other classes and I don't have all day)
Well to be fair mobility is incredibly valuable as it can be both defensive (avoiding damage/cc or just escaping) or offensive (chasing and setting up to more easily landing your own skill shots if they originate from your champion) and of course there is also quite a bit of utility in just being able to get around on the map more quickly Which is also of course why almost every champion take flash (well then again Flash is a blink which means it has no travel time and can bypass abilities and terrain which usually stop dashes in addition to having no cast time) I do think mobility is very often undervalued when it comes to powerbudget but I also think it is partially because it has to be because mobility is so powerful but at the same time it is also rather useless if the champion doesn't have the power to back up the mobility to do something (though I suppose they could be a decent split pusher or skirmisher by mostly relying on being able to outmaneuver enemies even if they lack the power to win a straight up fight)
: If you compare the damage output of a champion like Ahri with a champion like Veigar, you will see a drastic difference. The thing that frustrates people is that the mobile character still needs "enough" damage to function, and there's no benefit for the immobile champion "overkilling" someone.
Well yes though you could allow immobile champions to have shorter cooldowns so that they can potentially get a second chance if they miss or get the chance to kill a second target if they hit Though of course the main problem with champions like Veigar isn't just being immobile it is also that he doesn't have that great of a range so he is vulnerable to being picked off before getting a good opportunity for using his abilities or being forced to burn it on a tank before he gets blown up
: You can only freeze when the allied wave has less minions than the enemy wave, so it pushes to you. If you tank the wave and stop it from reaching your turret and stop the enemy minions from dying, you can pretty much freeze forever. If the enemy wave becomes too big, trim it with autos (no aoe spells) so you don't take too much damage when you try to punish your enemy. Freezing only works if you're ahead, otherwise the enemy can just all in or trade with you, push the wave to your turret and break your freeze.
> otherwise the enemy can just all in or trade with you, push the wave to your turret and break your freeze. Well yes they can break it however doing so will make them somewhat vulnerable to a jungle gank as they will likely have to overextend to push and force the minions into the turret so there is some risk to doing it
: Just switch Wit's AS for HP, buff it's MR drain to 8 hits of 5 (Max 40 MR), and buff the Damage to 65. Boom, it becomes a AP bruiser item. Decent on: {{champion:245}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:268}}{{champion:432}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:4}} Good on: {{champion:154}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:84}}
{{champion:268}} {{champion:154}} ? I don't think it would be useful at all on those two? Because Azir can't trigger on-hit effects when he is using his soldiers And Zac usually don't get to auto attack that much because of the channel on his E and R (though he does have time to AA some when not using his ultimate but there is also picking up his blobs so it could work)
: Eh, his kit largely stays the same though. Sure he has his w "skill shot," but his kit largely is still press q, e to your target, whack whack whack whack whack. And they gave his r range invulnerability to invalidate a lot of peel, which could cause balance issues if he's overtuned (because before at least you could cc him - now that's less of an option).
> And they gave his r range invulnerability to invalidate a lot of peel, which could cause balance issues if he's overtuned (because before at least you could cc him - now that's less of an option). You can still CC him though? You just can damage him? And not like Xin Zhao can deal much damage either if you aren't inside his range
SanKakU (NA)
: They used to have a Gromp Smite buff that scaled off of maximum HP. IIRC it was immolation and was what I thought to be the main reason Sejuani got reworked but who really knows. Maybe it's because they wanted to move her ultimate(or rather a new version of it) over to Neeko.
> IIRC it was immolation and was what I thought to be the main reason Sejuani got reworked but who really knows. Actually it was closer to Thornmail as it triggered on enemies auto attacking you (and yes it did potentially deal a lot of damage)
: Huge Problem with Tanks: Mid-tier items feel awful.
> Phage gives you some MS when you use physical skills. Nitpick but... Phage (And Trinity Force) only gives MS when you AA or kill a minion (Or champion I suppose) It is only Black Cleaver which triggers on physical damage (abilities or auto attacks)
: Please please PLEASE don't let the Vayne buff get onto live servers...
> It will give her perma steath late game as long as she autos right after each Q. That isn't how Vayne Q works? She won't be able to be perma stealth as the cooldown on Q only starts going down after using the empowered auto attack
forresto (NA)
: My perception is that the problem isnt necessarily marksmen themselves, but tanks being weak. Right now tanks can only tank properly in the mid-game if the enemy is weak. If the enemy is breaking even or fed, the frontline tends to melt fairly quickly. As a result no one really plays tanks these days, and you get 0-1 pure tanks per game for most games. This leaves the field fairly open for assassins to do their thing thanks to a lack of defensive cc. Marksmen also feel underwhelming in this scenario because their job is to do consistent damage against tanks. Instead, they have to fight damage-heavy bruisers, burst-mages, or assassins. When its between "you 100-0 me, and I take several seconds to kill you" you know who's going to win that trade. Adcs are also notorious for lacking real escape mechanisms. I think vayne and Caitlyn are the only ones with strong mobility. Ik some like mf or twitch can get movespeed buffs, but it's really not the same when you're trying to escape.
> Adcs are also notorious for lacking real escape mechanisms. I think vayne and Caitlyn are the only ones with strong mobility. Ik some like mf or twitch can get movespeed buffs, but it's really not the same when you're trying to escape. {{champion:81}} have mobility? And there is also {{champion:145}} who has invisibility (with stats requirements) and her ult mobility and shield {{champion:498}} she doesn't have mobility but her Ultimate can be a pretty good defensive tool {{champion:429}} she kind of has mobility?
FSRER (EUNE)
: I will tell the most useless and the most broken champs in each lane. **TOP** {{champion:266}}, bad design, poor gameplay, why play such a bad lane bully while there are many better ({{champion:58}} {{champion:24}}) {{champion:420}}, yes I know that many of you won't think she is that bad but really, **SHE IS**. Try playing any melee champion at the lane he was supposed to be played vs this beast. Get near and walls, tentacles, e, half hp gone! try to 1v1 when she is lvl 6 even if she is 400 health and you are full? nope, you will get bursted from the first second she ults. Do i have to say more? **JUNGLE** {{champion:77}}. We've seen many good udyrs lately (Im eune plat) but that does not mean he is good. Damage only done by the Q buff they did to him. His gank potential? what makes a champion good at jungling???? He runs at ya...... just that.....runs at ya.... And he cant take any damage at all. Why not play {{champion:86}} jungle instead? {{champion:121}}. He wasn't always so broken but yeah.... every players knows what I mean. 1 shooting with the ad jungle item. Need more? **MID** {{champion:136}}. The first in this list who actually got some nice lore! Nice concept, nice lore but.... yeah.... bad time for this champ to exsist. He takes time and items to do damage and when the enemy midlaner not only will have less mana consumption but will also have either a dash or a stun burst combo. {{champion:7}}. Dash, double dash, 900 range root, another dash, a q and the most balanced part of her is her ult which allows her to cast a ability again (if i remember right) This in theory sounds just like a a more complex assassin which you need to learn in order to play. Yeah....right...... She would actually be that but her high damage scaling allows her to 1 shot even early in the game. **ADC** {{champion:96}}. Don't get me wrong, he used to be very good but after they nerfed his range and his ability to have attack speed over 2.50 which was not so bad since true damage did not exsist and all he did was mixed damage. Thornmail and spirit visage and you were kinda ok. Of course right now he is by far the worst adc. {{champion:119}}. Some might think that {{champion:145}} is worse but let me explain. Kaisa does damage, she can't get so easily fed if you know how to play against her (aka, play defensively, let your support poke and for gods sake, ward the river) but at late she will burst your more than anyone. Draven on the other hand, is one, if not the only one, that can play with conqueror at as ranged champion, can 1 shot adc and support with stormrazor (don't get me started on that item) and overall easier to get kills and he does the damage so early he can easily dominate every matchup. And last but not least **SUPPORT** {{champion:555}}. The worst "support" **BY FAR**. Is he a support? no! He can hook a enemy on with a very solid combo but most of the time he will take all kills and he will actually become the adc. So...no.. and riot knew that this would happen if they released such a champion. This is a tough decision since many supports are good with certain combos but for me, the best support will always be {{champion:267}}. Want poke? you got it. Want heal? you got it. Want knockup? you got it. The perfect support. Just please, at the healing ability she has make it so that if he pokes you and then heal herself, the heal to be reduced since she poked but if she only uses it to heal herself to have a bigger mana cost. That would make her perfect. What ya guys think?
> {{champion:96}} Don't get me wrong, he used to be very good but after they nerfed his range and his ability to have attack speed over 2.50 which was not so bad since true damage did not exsist and all he did was mixed damage. Thornmail and spirit visage and you were kinda ok. Of course right now he is by far the worst adc. To be fair the whole allowing Kog'maw to get 5.0 attack speed kind of warped all on-hit items around him making it so that they were balanced around Kog'maw (and garbage on most other champions) or rather OP on Kog'maw
: So, Just my opinion, but tankiness is fairly valuable. The issue is timing your entries. Too early and you get nuked by 5 man focus fire, which any one champion besides maybe a late game chogath should be. Too late and your team is already dead. Just right and you absorb a lot of key cooldowns, while your damage threats move in and make it so they can't burn litterally everything on you. Tanks will always be more powerful in cordinated play for this reason. As for buffing tanks damage as the way to strengthen them... Kinda do agree that much. Turning tanks into bruisers isn't really that enjoyable in my opinion. Not every tank is in this catagory, but the recent ornn changes on the pbe seemed like absolutly massive damage boosts. Perhaps im wrong on that, but id rather have seen less damage and more of a boost to the tankiness. I think they've started avoiding that though, since its almost always one extreme or the other. Tanks are either tanky enough to survive and pull off some rather powerful utility, or their not, and they can't. perhaps a damage direction is a better long term plan? Not sure on that but I think these Ornn changes might be the first of a series of experiments like that.
> Tanks are either tanky enough to survive and pull off some rather powerful utility, or their not, and they can't. perhaps a damage direction is a better long term plan? Well that is the thing most Tanks are usually quite able to get off their utility/damage yes they might not get off a second rotation without durability... but then again they probably won't even with durability?
: Still hyped for Warcraft III: Reforged :D
> [{quoted}](name=Myren Quiddle,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NfEoJ5sz,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-19T10:53:13.535+0000) > > Still hyped for Warcraft III: Reforged :D I am probably going to get it... but I will still wait and see for a while just to make sure Activision Blizzard won't mess it up somehow like adding microstransactions or something like that
: You only ever did it on Karthus lol
I remember when Karthus E actually scaled with CDR... though spamming it did seem a bit weird
: complaining that cdr is too easy to get for caster champions is like complaining that attack speed is too easy to get for auto attack focused champions. most of the cdr is on items that are designed to empower spells, which makes 100% sense. im personally not a fan of the cdr stat shard exactly for the reason that enough cdr is accessable through items, and the fact that it takes until lvl 18 to ramp up makes it simply not worth compared to 10 adaptive force. long before the cdr stat shard makes a difference, you could already have 40% cdr with either transcendence and/or blue buff, and two cdr items.
> complaining that cdr is too easy to get for caster champions is like complaining that attack speed is too easy to get for auto attack focused champions. Well to be fair each point of attack speed is worth the same While this is not the case for CDR with each point of CDR being worth more than the last 0 ---> 50% CDR = Half as long cooldowns 50% ---> 75% CDR = Half as long cooldowns 75% ----> 87.5% CDR = Half as long cooldowns Yes it isn't as extreme at lower levels of CDR but it is still there (that is the reason CDR has a cap after all)
Ulanopo (NA)
: I looked over the action and while we could have done a better job of explaining the reason, I feel it's a legit removal. We all know who you were talking about and this post only served to start conflict and drama. If you want to contest the punishment, you're always welcome to come to the Boards Discord, but I won't be undeleting the content.
> We all know who you were talking about and this post only served to start conflict and drama. Do we? Because I don't have a clue who the comment is supposedly referring to.... not everyone is on the boards that much or that often... not everyone is in the know
: > [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=ePGENAA1,comment-id=00010000000300000000,timestamp=2018-12-02T23:16:03.263+0000) > > I am not saying that there are 0 girls who play league. I am saying that there is a low percentage of league of legends players who are female. There are a low number of "female gamers" overall. I've ran into a few girls. My best friend is a girl who plays league, actually.
> I've ran into a few girls. My best friend is a girl who plays league, actually. Well then again in league it can be rather difficult to tell if girls play it or not Since for all you know all the other players in the game could be female... or non of them could be... you have no real way of knowing and usually it isn't all that relevant or interesting
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: Sure, but when almost all of the female characters in the game are sexualized slim girls, that's a problem I want more diversity in the body types etc
> Sure, but when almost all of the female characters in the game are sexualized slim girls, that's a problem No I don't think it is a problem... lazy design however is potentially bad but still isn't a problem as it is a game and games can function as entertainment with good gameplay even if the visuals are bad and the point of games are usually to be entertaining in someway > I want more diversity in the body types etc Yes... but other people probably have other visual preferences than you So what Riot will likely aim for is whatever pleases as many as possible while being hated by as few as possible people Are you in the majority and Riot should cater to your preferences? Or are you in the minority? I don't know... and really I don't think anyone does?
abca98 (EUW)
: The problem is that sometimes what could make a interesting character is replaced with "there you go, fap to this" and I think that's a lame way to appeal to the audience.
> The problem is that sometimes what could make a interesting character is replaced with "there you go, fap to this" and I think that's a lame way to appeal to the audience. I don't really see it as a problem of sexy characters... I see it more of a problem of laziness and beautiful/attractive characters is just the generic standard when nothing interesting is done with the character It isn't that sexy is bad but that generic/lazy character design is however in some cases I think it can be fine or at least understandable after all sometimes in games the visuals don't have much focus (time/money) spent on it thus it usually leads to the visuals being generic (and hopefully functional) which is kind of fine if the gameplay is good enough to make up for the lackluster visuals Yes both would be preferable but games have limited development time and budget which means that there has to be some compromises and that not everything will be perfect
: I don't understand the thought process that lead to these changes.
> I hate the fact that I spent so much money on this game, because now I'm stuck with it. I can't quite quit, because I have this account with a ton of skins on it so I'm deeply invested. No matter how much you have invested it still doesn't mean that you have to invest more time or money.... especially so when it comes to games as they are primarily entertainment and if you aren't enjoying it there is no reason to keep going not to mention there are so absurdly many games out there to chose from so why stick with one you don't enjoy?
Vegathron (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=38W7tIpN,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-11-22T17:34:31.496+0000) > > Entirely understand the desire for something that feels like it caps out before the game's over. We spent a while trying to find other versions of a CDR rune to offer. Eventually concluded though that this was what we'd need to go with for it to be balanced relative to the other options. Looking at early data CDR seems to be performing really well already statistically as choice in that slot, so doesn't look like we've got room to buff it. find it hard to believe the cdr isnt terrible even from a pure gold value perspective, the adaptive force give 200~230 gold value at LEVEL ONE, obviously 200 gold at level one is huge. them compare this to the scaling cdr starting at 1%, by the time you hit 18 you now have 266 gold worth of cdr. so youve waited the entire game to scale an extra 40 gold? sounds absolutely awful.
> them compare this to the scaling cdr starting at 1%, by the time you hit 18 you now have 266 gold worth of cdr. Yes but that is just because CDR is dirt cheap for how powerful it is and the more CDR you have the more powerful it is 0% CDR ---> 1/1 = 100% 10% CDR ---> 1/0.9 = 111.111% (+11%) 20% CDR ---> 1/0.8 = 125% (+14%) 30% CDR ---> 1/0.7 = 142.857% (+17%) 40% CDR ---> 1/0.6 = 166.666% (+24%) 50% CDR ---> 1/0.5 = 200% (half the cooldown twice as many spells or twice as high uptime) And having 10% CDR from runes allow you to build other items and still get to 40% CDR though of course some champions don't work well with CDR because of having so long cooldowns that even with CDR they aren't likely to get off a second rotation or because they need to build as much damage as possible to try and 100-0 where they can't afford to waste and gold on CDR even with how cheap it is
: It's actually not that massive if you do the math. But the resistance options are definitely stronger vs that specific damage type. 600 health with 5 armor = 630 effective health vs physical damage, 600 vs magic 600 health with 6 MR = 636 effective health vs magic damage, 600 vs physical 600 health + 15 = 615 health It's pretty much right in the middle of both effective health values but it works against both. For higher values though: 2000 health with 5 armor = 2100 2000 health with 6 mr = 2120 2000 health + 90 = 2090 They're actually all pretty evenly weak. Unless I'm playing a health, armor or mr scaling champion I'd definitely be taking an offensive option instead. Hell, even on a lot of those champions the offensive options look flat out better.
To be fair it also work with health regen, shields and potions which does add quite a bit early game
: I still think the best way to make his upgrades more appealing for allies is to target the passive/active effects that make the items unique instead of the basic stats provided. Things like upping {{item:3089}} % amp, or {{item:3157}} duration. Let {{item:3071}} have more stacks or give more movespeed. Also more item options would be nice. Right now there aren't many choices for the ally to make; a mage might say, "do i want less ap but more armor from zhonyas, or do i just want a ton of ap from deathcap?" The choice would be more meaningful if i was asking, "Bigger AP multiplier, longer stasis, banshees shield on a lower cd, or more pen on void staff?"
{{item:3157}} having a longer duration isn't necessarily a buff as it means the user can't move for longer potentially putting them in a bad position and leaves them unable to assist allies for longer and shorter cooldown might be a bit too powerful So it would probably be difficult to buff the active in any meaningful way
: He's actually correct here. Not being able to browse anywhere else, not being able to 'wait out' the penalty, and having to be there to accept the queue is all intended. It's supposed to be punishing.
> He's actually correct here. Not being able to browse anywhere else, not being able to 'wait out' the penalty, and having to be there to accept the queue is all intended. It's supposed to be punishing. Though doesn't that make them just Alt-Tab or browse on their phone.... I don't see how that is preferable to them browsing around on your own client?
: Even if I expected a global apology to everyone, I do believe it's better to just pretend it never happened. They fired the guy, it means they didn't agree with what he did, which is fine. It's useless to keep talking about it, only adding oil to the fire for no reason
> [{quoted}](name=Beatrice falls,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eo3cW1zM,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2018-09-21T15:16:43.246+0000) > > Even if I expected a global apology to everyone, I do believe it's better to just pretend it never happened. They fired the guy, it means they didn't agree with what he did, which is fine. It's useless to keep talking about it, only adding oil to the fire for no reason They fired a scapegoat (who didn't have anything with the panels at pax banning males) so they clearly changed their stance and won't ever do it again... right? Yeah I think it is somewhat justified to add oil to this fire and keep Riots feet to the fire until they properly give a response/apology
: Honestly, while I agree with the tiered punishment system, I feel like Riot could include links to anger management tips and tricks. Like "If you are feeling yourself getting heated... sit for 10 seconds, and deep breathe" sort of stuff. Give them the tools to aid in their own reform. It's very "sink or swim" right now.
> Like "If you are feeling yourself getting heated... sit for 10 seconds, and deep breathe" sort of stuff. We feel you should know that chat is useless and we recommend pushing it as far off the screen as possible so you can't see it or using "/mute all" Though really what use does chat have?
: The first part (telling people to off 'emselves) is pretty easy to classify and spot. But how do you separate between hate speech? What if someone makes a slightly "grey-line" joke without any ill intention? Is that hate speech too? What is hate speech, to Riot Games, as a whole?
> What is hate speech, to Riot Games, as a whole? Using the awful thing called chat is something only a hateful person will do so obviously using chat is clearly a sign of hate speech /S But really generally you are better off never ever using chat
Xäyąh (NA)
: It's not clean if they did a ZT offense.
They misspelled keys.... oh such a terrible person... ZT is basically just a chat filter which doesn't care at all about context or such so yes just misspelling keys or any other such words is more than good enough... but I guess people will eventually learn that chat is just a trap and should never be used
: Riot, if you will not apologize for PAX...
Sadly Riot will probably do nothing and sweep it under the rug and hope it will be forgotten about
Alzon (NA)
: I agree with you when you say that the damage-oriented jungle items need an overhaul. As for your suggested enchantments in particular, I believe all three of them are ridiculously powerful and would be 100% poached by laners. Every damage-dealer would build Smite. I do like some of your ideas, though. Here are my takes: {{item:1400}} Still builds out of {{item:3133}} +30% Base Attack Damage +10% CDR +10% Movement Speed when moving toward nearby enemy champions {{item:1402}} Still builds out of {{item:3802}} +70 AP +300 Mana Haste UNIQUE Passive: Spellcasts reduce the cooldown of your other abilities by 0.5 seconds. Cannot be triggered by the same ability more than twice within 8 seconds. {{item:1416}} Still builds out of {{item:1043}} +35% Attack Speed UNIQUE Passive: Deal bonus on-hit magic damage equal to 100% of your permanent bonus Attack Speed modifier.
> UNIQUE Passive: Spellcasts reduce the cooldown of your other abilities by 0.5 seconds. Cannot be triggered by the same ability more than twice within 8 seconds. Such an effect could have a slight issue in that it scales so well with CDR with a flat 0.5 seconds reduction being stronger the more CDR you have and the CDR can also help get you closer to the limit of casting your abilities twice in 8 seconds for max reduction
Dat Kat (EUW)
: It doesn't matter how long they've been around, or how much they spent on their accounts. Intentionally feeding is bannable. I'm a perfect example for this situation, I inted one game in like 5 years ( been playing since s3 ) and got banned for it. I submitted a ticket to riot, repeating what I just said and well . . "You're all treated equally" . . and I agree.
Do you not know the way? Obviously you don't feed.... {{champion:34}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:223}} you make your allies feed The worst part is that it actually works and is almost impossible detect without manual review
Vekkna (NA)
: >The power increase should be as targeted as possible to the item's purpose in the item system (in this case, countering HP stacking), rather than just a generic power increase. And yet the best way to increase % health damage is mpen, which was removed from the item. 15 flat pen was stronger than +10% magic damage, didn't require any ramp-up time, *and* the % current health burn was significantly stronger for poking. The flat pen was removed for being a burst stat that conflicted with the dps identity of the burn, right? But now the item is only as its old version after you burst through 50%+ of the enemy's health bar. So can you explain what the item's purpose actually is? Because currently, it looks like it should be an anti-tank and dps item, but it doesn't even earn the item slot against targets over 50% health. >This is to avoid items just being default purchased every game. Really? Look at Gunblade users, virtually all of whom barely function without the item. Look at Trinity users. Look at the majority of mages rushing Luden's. Look at the majority of APs across the board picking up Morello second. Why is there a double standard for some items and not others? >We're increasing the top end of the burn to achieve this, but this needs to come with an overall decrease to general power so as to not just make the item overpowered. Most hp stackers are melee and will build either SV or Mercs. Even with just Mercs, that 2.5% max hp burn is cut to 1.25% or less after MR. So you have a Cho'gath with 6000 hp, Mercs, and SV running you down. Good thing you have Liandry's to counter all that hp, right?! Oh, wait, your *empowered* burn deals **65 damage per second** to a 6000 hp target. Meanwhile, if the very same Cho has 300 armor, one auto attack by a BotRK user deals an extra 160 damage on hit (480 before armor). The same attack with Bloodrazor deals 80 damage on hit (240 before armor) Serious question here. How is a .5% max hp buff, reduced by MR, anything remotely close to "overpowered.?" Moreover, why are you terrified of 7.5% max hp over 3 seconds when the AD % health items easily deal 24% current hp or 16% max hp in the same amount of time?
> Serious question here. How is a .5% max hp buff, reduced by MR, anything remotely close to "overpowered.?" Moreover, why are you terrified of 7.5% max hp over 3 seconds when the AD % health items easily deal 24% current hp or 16% max hp in the same amount of time? Not to mention that {{item:3124}} exists and can amplify on-hit % health effects by a lot and there is also attack speed (There is no such amplification for {{item:3151}} assuming your champion/team have slows or other CC)
: If you could combine any two finished items of your choice, what would they be?
Bazerka (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=000100000000001800000003,timestamp=2018-09-08T22:32:05.861+0000) > > Don't all this we need to help and support women to get into X industry thing kind of propagate the belief that women aren't as capable in that it can imply that women aren't able to compete with men without getting support/advantages... > > After all if they are able to compete why would the need all that help and support? And why wouldn't there be more women if they are fully able to compete? Because in many of these situations, the barrier isn't about merit but human (and in many cases male) bias. Going against bias is like telling people to climb a wall, but one person actively has someone adding weights to their ankles as they climb. I agree with your point that the solution to this isn't to give a "boost" to females or non-binary people, that would mask the problem not solve it. My solution instead is to address the bias problem head on with the teams doing the work. If you can make interviewers aware of their own bias and help them to identify hard metrics to success vs. perceived metrics we can begin to level the playing field to make merit the main metric that people can enter the industry. Sorry to have typed such a long response, but I hope this makes sense!
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=0001000000000018000000030000,timestamp=2018-09-09T04:08:22.102+0000) > > Because in many of these situations, the barrier isn't about merit but human (and in many cases male) bias. Going against bias is like telling people to climb a wall, but one person actively has someone adding weights to their ankles as they climb. > > I agree with your point that the solution to this isn't to give a "boost" to females or non-binary people, that would mask the problem not solve it. My solution instead is to address the bias problem head on with the teams doing the work. If you can make interviewers aware of their own bias and help them to identify hard metrics to success vs. perceived metrics we can begin to level the playing field to make merit the main metric that people can enter the industry. > > Sorry to have typed such a long response, but I hope this makes sense! I don't think your response was that long? And to the point yes it is always better to try and solve the underlying issues rather than bandaid solutions as they might overshoot or undershoot or otherwise have unfortunate unintended consequences (especially when it is used as a quick fix and not much thought goes into the consequences) Yes I agree that having hard metrics or just some way of making things objective to avoid bias... the main problem is that it is a very difficult thing to do sometimes even impossible to do or if it is possible it can just take too much time or resources to do... and even if it is doable tests and such can also be biased in that they can contain the bias of the creator(s) of the test(s). And on this I think excluding men from panels like happened during PAX is just a bandaid fix that doesn't really do much good and can even make things worse especially if taken too far and knowing where too far... is easier said than done (people tend not to be happy being excluded which can breed animosity and dislike towards the included groups) having panels focused on Women or X group but allowing all to join if they want is much much better or just having a separate event where only those who are invited will be there and there won't be people who have the event in their face while they aren't allowed because of their sex, gender, race or such
Bazerka (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=0001000000000018,timestamp=2018-09-08T07:19:56.993+0000) > > I feel like this is an ignorant question but what 'extreme barriers' are you talking about for example. > > I don't really know the situation overseas but I'd argue that every person has the same chances, no? Not an ignorant question at all! There are many times where females or non-binary people are discriminated against because people can't believe they can do a job well (even when thats totally not the case). Also in the work place, loud alpha type (high volume, action type) personalities tend to be valued more. Women in particular tend not to have those types of personalities, and subsequently get overlooked for promotions etc. Keep in mind, these examples are off the top of my head, but a quick google search will reveal mountains of data and articles on the subject. Thats a much better resource than the two examples that I can think of off the top of my head :)
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=00010000000000180000,timestamp=2018-09-08T17:54:13.835+0000) > > **Not an ignorant question at all! There are many times where females or non-binary people are discriminated against because people can't believe they can do a job well (even when thats totally not the case).** ~~Also in the work place, loud alpha type (high volume, action type) personalities tend to be valued more. Women in particular tend not to have those types of personalities, and subsequently get overlooked for promotions etc. ~~ > > ~~Keep in mind, these examples are off the top of my head, but a quick google search will reveal mountains of data and articles on the subject. Thats a much better resource than the two examples that I can think of off the top of my head :)~~ Don't all this we need to help and support women to get into X industry thing kind of propagate the belief that women aren't as capable in that it can imply that women aren't able to compete with men without getting support/advantages... After all if they are able to compete why would the need all that help and support? And why wouldn't there be more women if they are fully able to compete?
: > [{quoted}](name=Auroramancer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=MAMENhTM,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-09-07T18:45:18.167+0000) > > > > #Regarding Riot > > Riot still needs to answer us. We already know what happened to DZK, so we shouldn't demand that they tell US what happened to him and other Rioters. > > #We need clarification on where Riot stands in all of this. > * They say they want to re-evaluate what "meritocracy" means. _**How is their definition of meritocracy going to differ from the actual definition?**_ > * Do they see the exclusion of men _**as necessary for**_ the empowerment of non-men? > * Do they recognize that they can empower non-men _**without**_ excluding men? > * Do they recognize how _**demeaning**_ it is TO NON-MEN to segregate them from men _**in professional/career-related environments**_? > * Do they enforce the _**actual definitions**_ of sexism, racism, and other discrimination-based words in their culture, or do they adhere to the _**faux-definitions**_ created by far left-leaning bigots? > > #Riot wants to be a leader in culture and inclusivity. PAX was an example of going forwards in some ways, backwards in other ways > > The playerbase needs answers on these kinds of questions, and comments on Riot's stance toward remarks put forward by DZK. > > _**The only information we should be asking Riot for with regard to DZK is their stance on his remarks. NOT comments about DZK's character, or his position with the company, or the recent circumstances with the company. **_ They already answered everything here by firing him. Firing him states that they will not stand for his actions, and by doing that you have the answer to all your questions.
> [{quoted}](name=Ulquiorra0123,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=MAMENhTM,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-09-08T08:46:59.483+0000) > > They already answered everything here by firing him. Firing him states that they will not stand for his actions, and by doing that you have the answer to all your questions. Or they just fired him to use him as a scapegoat to make the PR storm pass while they can keep going as before... and if nobody digs into it again then they wouldn't really need to change now would they? Yes I know that is an incredibly pessimistic and cynical way of looking at it... but it is a possibility
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Champion Skin

Level 72 (EUW)
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