: Old ult was absolutely broken because of the teamwide damage reduction. That's one of the reasons why Mao was hated back then Like OP said if they ever bring it back they should remove the damage reduction and give MS boost/slowfield or just keep the damage absorb to himself
Is it really that OP? 20% damage reduction is equal to increasing a champions CURRENT health by 25% IF they are killed or as close as possible while the effect lasts (note it also increase the effectiveness of healing and shields as they act like health) but of course it has no effect against true damage 25% of an ADC or Squishy isn't that much? {{item:3190}} is probably more though of course being shorter duration and making tanks harder to kill doesn't seem that OP?
puśsý (NA)
: What tanks need
{{item:3193}} the closest thing tanks have is the active on Stoneplate and even that isn't that amazing and it is gated by a cooldown
: I'd prefer tanks/bruisers having more HP to literally everyone dying in sub-4 seconds in teamfights.
If nothing else Riot could probably at least buff {{item:3193}} as nobody outside of tanks are likely to ever build it and even tanks don't always build it because well resistances aren't always that useful (especially against % penetration or true damage) and because it is terrible in lane The active is actually decent for increasing a tanks durability
: The problem is that so many bruiser items make them as tanky as tanks. {{item:3053}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3026}} And many bruiser items, also come overcharged with cdr which buff up defensive abilities, such as Jax E and Riven E. {{item:3071}} / {{item:3078}} {{item:3161}} These items give bruisers defensive capabilites/health, and AD.. While tank items only give... tank stats... Tanks need to scale more with tank stats if they want to compete and/or bruiser items need to be revisited.
Part of the problem is how many ways there are to negate resistances as most bruisers are stacking mostly health while most tank items have resistances and health...
Schenix (NA)
: I mean, damage needs to scale better than defense. That's... how you deal damage. The issue might just be that tanks don't survive long enough anymore or are useless comparative to bruisers, but they're doing well all around too. Singed, Malfight, Nunu, Sion, Volibear, Shen, etc. are doing quite nicely. Most champions are viable right now, even if it doesn't feel satisfying.
> I mean, damage needs to scale better than defense. That's... how you deal damage. Well you can actually let defense scale better than damage with actives and such like {{item:3193}} (which also decrease damage dealt so it can't be used by damage dealers to increase the amount of damage they deal by staying alive longer) {{item:3053}} also gives up to 75% increase in bonus health (as shield is basically the same as hp) if the entire shield is broken through with damage So giving reactionary or temporary ways for defense to scale better than damage could be fine (especially when they also reduce damage so they can't be abused by damage dealers)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f8W48oJE,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-08T21:03:11.809+0000) > > There is 0 reason why a champion with over 3000 HP and 4 tank items is still somehow dying in less than 4 seconds. Magic Penetration needs to be toned way down, or there needs to be more MR items. I am so sick of going against an almost all AP team and still melting in the late game because I run out of MR items to build MR is hardly the issue. Adaptive helm, gargoyle stoneplate, spirit visage, merc threads are some options. You are melting because 90% of the AD champion roster has %health based damage or true damage in one form or another. You can build all the resistances you want, they won't scale against stacked infinity edges or bortk %hp damage. You'll melt all the same. In fact, MR should always be weaker to armor because mages don't do sustained damage through autoattacks, they do it through skills that have considerable cooldowns. If you can have MR and a mage's full rotation only does 30% of your HP while being on an effective 8+ second cd, why would you bring mages over an ADC who can do more than that all the time just by right clicking you?
Yes it isn't as common but there are powerful sustained magic damage too {{champion:268}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:136}} Or well at least he used to have sustained damage...
: riot guy is right. the immobile stuff is way more consistent, ergo it's more powerful while at the same time being less fun to play. the mobile shit is more fun win or lose. take note of aram power picks.
> the immobile stuff is way more consistent How so? Riot has generally been on a crusade against point and click CC.... and mobile champions generally have an easier time getting in position to land their skill shots or avoid enemy skill shots
Kemious (NA)
: Well options are a big key for it there's also the fact that looked at Mobility allowed Champions still deal the same if not more damage than your standard Less mobile champion Also a lot of them have defensive abilities tied to them that even when you tag them they have some sort of CC or Shield that allows them to still survive an escape. something that should be tied to the left mobile Champions but has been increasingly attached to the mobile . champions. Pyke has his regen , stun and invisibility, yasou has passive, knovk up and wind wall ahri as movement passive and heal it goes on and one Flip it to somebody like Taliyah who's only defensive ability is her E and will fall off her wall if any damage hits her. or syndra who can only knock people away with her e. take a look at kaisai who ult gives her a shiled and has a movement speed ability that makes her invisbile and increases her attack speed afterwards compare it to dravens whose blood rush does a similar thibf lacks the stealth but is also tied to catching those axes. Champions like Vi whos pretty mobile and sejunai who have some mobility but have difficult using it to escape bad situations are less popilar than the ones that have multiple get out of free carda
> Well options are a big key for it there's also the fact that looked at Mobility allowed Champions still deal the same if not more damage than your standard Less mobile champion I mean even if they have the same damage mobility champions are able to more safely forgo building defensive items as they have an easier time avoiding being picked off and avoiding damage and CC and their mobility also allow them to more easily use their damage
: > [{quoted}](name=Xphineas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=py40MZFZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-06T03:36:37.933+0000) > > Can he? Its most likely a bug, then. Though, im pretty sure if a camille begins her E, even if she is rooted if it makes contact with a wall she dashes to it, but shes stuck there for the 1 second (or until the root ends), so it may be intentional That's a common thing for all champion. If you start casting an ability, then it cannot be interrupted. Except channeling skills. Such as Nunu, and Kata ult. Most often example i see this is Lux ult. Once started to cast the Soraka silence will not help. Also i saw this on Tristana jump, and Kayn dash. Once casting started it cannot be interrupted in any way.
> That's a common thing for all champion. If you start casting an ability, then it cannot be interrupted. Except channeling skills. Such as Nunu, and Kata ult. With a huge exception being dashes which can be interrupted by displacement (though other forms of CC doesn't have any effect other than CC'ing the target when they finish their dash)
: most reworks are a miss, and champion mains want them reverted. I still feel that way about Fiora, Malzahar and Akali. (even after Fiora got nerfed because people refused to counterplay or counterbuild her, and akali was no longer able to go full tank and 1v1 the adc, i didn't play akali that could trigger Q mark with her E) But so far, the only ones that were graced by this divine touch (rework reverted) were Riven (reverted while still on PBE), Rengar, Leblank and Kog. So, while waiting to see if your champion gets reverted or not (the odds are not in your favor btw), you could give a try and play his like an AP Talon and see how that works. With a build more focused on wave clear and burst {{item:3802}} -> {{item:3907}} -> {{item:3020}} than the control mage he used to be.
The Kog'maw one was so silly... like yeah breaking attack speed cap and doubling your attack speed is cool and all but how did they not see that it would absolutely break and warp ALL on-hit items around Kog'maw with him being like this? Or maybe they thought that Kog'maw having that cool thing was worth warping all on-hit items around him?
: its honestly really easy: Make aftershock reduce damage taken by 50% maybe 60% late game, for 4 seconds. However, make it not pop to deal damage, and make it reduce all damage done by 30%. This is literally the fucking solution. Tanks become tanks, + tanks dont one shot things anymore. As for Zullar, hes going the completely wrong way because he aint suggesting anyways they can fix that. Dont just say "hehe fix ____ creep" without any back up.
50% is probably enough? 60% could also be fine though I don't want too much of a tanks durability to come from that Keystone 50% damage reduction (DR) means you can take 2 time as much damage (assuming you don't take any true damage) 60% DR means you can take 2.5 times as much damage 75% DR means you can take 4 times as much damage Yes it is only for 4 seconds but as it is right now surviving for 4 seconds seems pretty good {{item:3193}} is also a thing though the problem with it is that the stats it gives is pretty terrible in lane and it is pretty terrible against true damage and % based armor/mr penetration or shred
: Why are there so many "Riot should not focus on toxicity" threads right now??
> One of my friends tried the game out. She quit after a few games because everyone was so fucking toxic. Well that's what happens when all of the toxic people are concentrated among the new players because.... League of Legends is a free to play game so when some gets banned... they just create a new account and might also be even more toxic from being salty about being banned
Wacky9 (NA)
: Glacial makes sense, easy to land Q and W, can itemize a GLP or Protobelt right away. Still sucks and didn't make the champion easier for people to pick up
> Glacial makes sense, easy to land Q and W, can itemize a GLP or Protobelt right away. {{item:3152}} doesn't trigger Glacial Augment as it doesn't slow? {{item:3143}} {{item:3905}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3146}} {{item:3144}} {{item:3153}}{{item:3800}} Are the items which can trigger Glacial Augment (I think that's all of them)
: Tbh. There isn’t really anything you can do. He’s one of those champions that has to fuck up incredibly bad to be punished as is.
I really wish his ultimate had a brief channel or was a dash so that it could possibly be negated with well placed CC or (displacement in the case of a dash) Because there isn't much else you can do as preventing Pyke going in is often rather difficult because of his stealth + MS and his ult bypass shields and resistances (if you are in execute range) though at least healing works
: But you max that only on later rank since she need the dmg to be relevant so it's only 16% and since annie is a mage her base armor is a bit weak and she is forced to pick up {{item:3191}} to make that 16% relevant. Now it's even worst since 8% is nothing compared to other defensive ability such lux W or karma E or orianna E.
8% Damage reduction = 8.6% more damage needed to kill (if all damage is taken while it is active) 16% DR = 19% 20% DR = 25% 40% DR = 66.67% There are some big weaknesses here like the fact that true damage bypasses damage reduction {{summoner:14}} and the fact that it gets less and less effective the less HP you are on (as it basically is an amplifier)... and even if it enables you to survive the burst... it won't do much next time unless you recall or somehow restore your health Though it is potentially somewhat useful for surviving burst later on (with more base stats and probably some from items) at least enough to be able to throw out her combo ideally.... but yes for a burst mage it isn't very useful
GROMMI (NA)
: I'm okay with this. Part of the reason I desire Eternals is, strangely, because they have a price attached to them. It's more unique that way, and I enjoy being more unique. As special cookie as it is, I will take the time to learn off meta picks for the sake of exclusivity. It's very valuable to me, and I prefer if not everyone has Eternals because that makes me enjoy mine more. Strange, but marketing IG
> [{quoted}](name=GROMMI,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=jz00EFib,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-23T19:36:37.657+0000) > > I'm okay with this. Part of the reason I desire Eternals is, strangely, because they have a price attached to them. It's more unique that way, and I enjoy being more unique. As special cookie as it is, I will take the time to learn off meta picks for the sake of exclusivity. It's very valuable to me, and I prefer if not everyone has Eternals because that makes me enjoy mine more. > > Strange, but marketing IG So the more overpriced something is the more you want it? Since that generally makes less people want to buy it... making you more.... unique
NeekoMew (EUW)
: i've accepted friend requests from adc's in the past but they would almost always end up flaming me the 2nd game i play with them because they dont get a giant 5/0 lead in 5 minutes like the last game. That goes for anyone i've gotten friend requests from tbh. So i just dont accept any requests anymore, no matter how nice a person or how good they are, The community just isn't worth it.
> [{quoted}](name=NeekoMew,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XmE860TQ,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-08-22T22:33:44.326+0000) > > i've accepted friend requests from adc's in the past but they would almost always end up flaming me the 2nd game i play with them because they dont get a giant 5/0 lead in 5 minutes like the last game. That goes for anyone i've gotten friend requests from tbh. So i just dont accept any requests anymore, no matter how nice a person or how good they are, The community just isn't worth it. If you Duo then you either get better opponents (Your MMR is inflated for account for the advantage of playing together) or you also face others who are also playing together but they might be using voice chat or just have more experience together which is an advantage Which can make getting leads more difficult
: As in, you require nine other humans to play a game of LoL. That's what you signed up for - and by literally minute one you want to pretend they don't even exist? To enter a game and have it not only be plausible, but viewed as necessary to gag order every other human in the game... and that's not toxic? The people who love the same game as you? The pedestal you have to be placing yourself on - albeit a great defense mechanism - is the darkest root of toxicity. "These horrible beasts, clacking their paws on the keyboard! Preventative measures must be taken." That is outwardly toxic and introspectively petty. Never seen people so willing to lose on their own terms before daring victory if that requires a shred of humanity.
> As in, you require nine other humans to play a game of LoL. RIP Twisted Treeline
Bârd (NA)
: About your response to Item RNG
If they don't want to give players the same amount of items then they have to either massively nerf items (so the one with fewer items aren't as screwed) or nerf it so that champions can only hold one or maybe two items Or a combination of the two
: > [{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=holLJLjA,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-08-11T08:07:22.886+0000) > > You see here is the problem Singed doesn't have any AD scalings like proper tanks like Sion or Poppy so he doesn't work well with the best tank item in the game {{item:3053}} if the entire shield is broken through with damage it basically gives you 75% increase on your bonus health and everyone knows that health is the way to go as resistances are terrible (because of how much true damage, resistance shred/penetration.... and the huge fact that it only works against one damage type) Singed isn't and should never be a tank anyway. looking at most elo's and what the best singed players are building his build is perfectly fine so his AP bruiser build is still his best option. singed has always itemized hp quite heavily so hp being the better tank stat is alright for him. neither should poppy but sadly her tank build is just better than her offtank bruiser builds since her rework.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=holLJLjA,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-08-11T23:41:33.894+0000) > > Singed isn't and should never be a tank anyway. looking at most elo's and what the best singed players are building his build is perfectly fine so his AP bruiser build is still his best option. singed has always itemized hp quite heavily so hp being the better tank stat is alright for him. > > neither should poppy but sadly her tank build is just better than her offtank bruiser builds since her rework. Poppy unless her kit changes in some way is likely to almost always favor tank builds because her damage is so unreliable/delayed and slow so her damage just doesn't have enough impact for it to be worth it for Poppy compared with giving the team more utility in being able to soak more damage and being able to more aggressively deny enemy dashes with W and threaten with R and use E more aggressively (without being blown up by the enemy retaliation)
: The biggest reason I stopped playing Singed/Other "Bulky" champions is because the current state of damage is so overtuned that champions that are supposed to be "hard to kill" just... aren't anymore. Why play a champion that's supposed to be """"Tanky"""" when they blow up just as fast as anyone else in this fuckin Meta You die the same as everyone else! but in return you get to deal less damage! ClapClapClap
> [{quoted}](name=FreezerFlare,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=holLJLjA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-10T19:36:41.301+0000) > > The biggest reason I stopped playing Singed/Other "Bulky" champions is because the current state of damage is so overtuned that champions that are supposed to be "hard to kill" just... aren't anymore. > > Why play a champion that's supposed to be """"Tanky"""" when they blow up just as fast as anyone else in this fuckin Meta > > You die the same as everyone else! but in return you get to deal less damage! ClapClapClap You see here is the problem Singed doesn't have any AD scalings like proper tanks like Sion or Poppy so he doesn't work well with the best tank item in the game {{item:3053}} if the entire shield is broken through with damage it basically gives you 75% increase on your bonus health and everyone knows that health is the way to go as resistances are terrible (because of how much true damage, resistance shred/penetration.... and the huge fact that it only works against one damage type) Yeah I am exaggerating but it isn't entirely untrue either... yeah tanks do have {{item:3193}} which is possibly better for the whole trying to survive at least a little longer though mostly because it is cheaper.... however it is so much worse in lane or when stuck in a 1v1 (as it only gives 40 armor/MR and one of the resistances is likely useless) And in SoloQ well.... you are probably going to want to at least be able to hold your own 1v1 as it doesn't seem that you can rely on your team to help deal with someone trying to split push (so good luck if you are the weaker duelist)
: It depends and I will usually be the last to surrender, partly because I get considerably more enjoyment from a comeback or evenly matched game than from winning a stomp, and I don't even really hate losing if it was a fun match. There also must be some kind of cutoff to what you consider your team losing. A:30/35 vs B:35/30 looks like team A is losing, but that's close enough that I definitely wouldn't surrender. Or A:5/10 vs B:10/5 but team A has more objectives or a stronger lategame team; I don't think that's reasonable to surrender either. For me to surrender, I'll usually need multiple afks on my team or for the enemy to have 4 times or more kills and objectives, or for my teammates to be so extremely rude (like all teammates being exceptionally rude, even by league standards) that I really don't want to win if it means my rude teammates also win. If the match is so uneven that I would surrender, then I don't usually need to surrender anyways because the game will quickly reach its conclusion even if I try my best to stall/comeback, or my teammates will overrule my nay vote by majority anyways.
> There also must be some kind of cutoff to what you consider your team losing. A:30/35 vs B:35/30 looks like team A is losing, but that's close enough that I definitely wouldn't surrender. Or A:5/10 vs B:10/5 but team A has more objectives or a stronger lategame team; I don't think that's reasonable to surrender either. Kills aren't even a particularly good way of knowing if a team is ahead or not I mean if mid lane roams top over and over and over which gives the team a kill lead but leads to the mid laner being even further behind in gold and exp compared with the enemy top laner (because of leaving lane at bad times and losing a lot of CS) then I wouldn't really say that they are ahead Gold and EXP (and dragons) are what matters and minions are a better source of gold and exp than kills however kills are good for denying the enemy Gold and EXP (however how much they lose depend on the minion wave and how quickly the champion can get back to lane)
: i agree the old runes were better, new runes (which arent runes but mastery pages) arent as enjoyable, i would rather have rune pages than mastery pages but riot just removed runes and called masteries runes, i dont know why the current runes are quite problematic, if they were removed the game would become alot more balanced right away the only thing i dont agree with is you saying annie has short range...do you know annies range? her Q has same range as her autos and i think the only people with further autos are like: late game trist and kog with W on and caitlyn i absolutely hate annie, that champ needs RW or deletion asap imo im still waiting for the day riot realizes tanks are good, tanks should exist and be extremely tanky, but like anything tanky you need to make sacrifices, cant wait for them to change the resist scaling so it doesnt fall off as hard but instead starts limiting your damage, theres no reason someone should be able to 100-0 someone if theyve built pure tank and theres no reason a tank should be dying in 3 seconds if theyve built pure tank resistances having diminishing returns is so counter intuitive, its not like u buy a BF sword and it gives u less AD cuz u already have a BF sword not to mention resistances blocking a % of dmg doesnt make alot of sense either, like, if paper provides 1 armor and i have 0 armor and i put the paper on as armor and it blocks 1% of damage then paper could block zero damage, paper could block 100 damage, which doesnt make sense, it has a threshold it can block, its paper
Resistances does not have diminishing returns Assuming 2000 health 0 resistances = 2000 damage needed to kill (0% damage reduction) 100 resistances = 4000 damage (50% damage reduction ---> 2 X 50% = 100%) 200 resistances = 6000 damage (66.666% damage reduction ---> 3 X 33.33% =100%) 300 resistances = 8000 damage (75% damage reduction ----> 4 X 25% = 100%) Yes Resistances does have diminishing return in the same way that HP has in that if you have 200 health and add 200 health that is 100% increase while if you add another 200 health then it is only a 50% increase (400 ---> 600) However because of things like {{item:3135}} {{item:3035}} {{item:3071}} and true damage.... resistances is generally not all that great late game but that has nothing with the way resistances work but rather all the ways there is to negate or bypass resistance
: Dont. Buff. Pyke.
I think something that could help is to make Pyke R always dash... yes it would make him safer (though I don't think he usually want to use his ultimate as an escape because of how powerful it is) But you tie the damage/execute to the dash which means knock ups and such could cancel his ult as there are quite a lot of displacement effects in the game It might even be a bit too harsh because of how powerful his ultimate is but then again giving it more counterplay probably would be good?
Ralanr (NA)
: I usually grab steraks over stoneplate if I’m ahead enough.
The main issues I see with Steraks is cost and the fact that it isn't that effective early on (because lower base AD and lower bonus HP but you could also just look at it as the item scaling with you) Though when stuck in a 1v1 Steraks is much better compared with Stoneplate (and most tanks do need to lane and deal with 1v1 fights unless they are a jungler or support) There is also the slight downside that AD isn't necessarily all that useful some tanks though there is quite a few tanks that have something tied to their AA maybe because Riot want tanks to have something to do while their abilities are on cooldown {{champion:3}} passive {{champion:111}} passive {{champion:516}} passive {{champion:57}} passive {{champion:54}} W {{champion:98}} Q {{champion:33}} Passive {{champion:78}} Passive
Ralanr (NA)
: Thing is, you’re not going to be able to make tank items undesirable to other classes unless it hampers them since all classes enjoy some defense. And hampering isn’t fun (it’s why I rarely ever build stoneplate in the first place). Riot inflates the base stats of tanks because it allows tanks to get more durable than others through the same items. The problem is that durability through resistance (shield or resistances) doesn’t work that well anymore. Healing ends up being the stronger form of survival, especially when scaled with high damage. Few real tanks have built in healing in their kits (Maokai is all I can think of).
> And hampering isn’t fun (it’s why I rarely ever build stoneplate in the first place). I mean Stoneplate is fairly good for it's cost but it has some issues in that resistances aren't valued all that much especially with how powerful % based penetration is and True Damage (and it isn't that slot efficient) However AD scaling tanks can also go with Steraks Gage {{item:3053}} which gives HP rather than resistances and it also have a lower cooldown (60s compared with 90) and it also gives more damage not less (And most tanks have rather high base AD) Yes you do have less control but then again it is usually when you take a lot of damage that you want it to trigger It is meant to be a Juggernaut item but with how much damage there is I don't think the shield is going to decay much so it should be fairly effective for tanks as well and if they ignore the tank well at least they have a little more punch in their AA's (and maybe abilities) the main issue is cost but if you have full build you might as well sell one of the cheaper and less slot efficient tank items for Steraks Gage
: Let’s look at why tanks are currently not of high value
> People will point out that tanks need damage and I don’t disagree. They need to be able to lane and clear jungles, but they also need to have reasonable damage. Well you could maybe make a tank that didn't have much damage if you somehow gave them a way to quickly or safely clear waves.... but that would lead to very little interaction (do the lane opponent have enough damage to kill or threaten the tank and prevent them from clearing the wave the lane opponent win if not they lose or at least can't do much) Pretty much the whole proxy Singed thing where if it took too much time and effort to kill Singed you would get less gold and exp compared with just sitting under tower and farming your own wave (especially when CS didn't affect dying/killing sprees so Singed could be worth like 50 gold if you were able to kill him a lot) So yeah tanks need some damage or else they won't ever interact with their lane opponent (why would they?)
: I like the idea of it being AOE, but without any real reference for how long a .25 second delay is, I wouldn't want Melee's to be just more fucked than ranged folk, just for sake of being melee. I'd want it to be at least somewhat fair enough to be able to dodge potentially, but like said, not too familiar with how a .25 second delay feels.
I mean melee champions (at least ones with gap closers) likely won't struggle that much with this ability especially if they gap closer puts them behind Fiddlesticks or is free targeting As cones have quite tinny starting AoE and combined with the delay it might not actually be all that easy hitting melee champions (though they are especially punished if they happen to get hit)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 28
> Tahm Kench > > We've got some work underway on TK changes for 9.14. Focus on those is more on reducing frustration playing against him than just balance adjustments, frustration in top lane especially. A key part of the direction we're currently exploring is reducing his ability to repeatedly CC the same target. Hopefully it will also make it easier for TK to CC multiple targets to make TK support more viable other than being a "support" same way as a mage support by beating the opponent down with damage and durability
: Not sure what game you guys were playing, but losing to a counter in the past was way worse. You could easily be zoned from not just CS, but also XP. Laning vs ranged champions was much more difficult than it is now.
I feel like the game also had more sandbag kind of champions before... like Morgan mid/top (she generally didn't kill anyone but she wasn't easy to kill herself so she generally went even in most lanes basically sandbagging the lane) of course the reason for this is that riot thinks that such champions/playstyles aren't interactive and fun enough Though there was also way back when there were masteries that had a flat reduction in minion/monster damage allowing you to basically ignore the minion wave (yes that was OP but at least it made it easier to deal with range champions as you could basically ignore the minion wave and fight in it with no care)
: > [{quoted}](name=NY64,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yLWg3Ewk,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-06-28T03:05:40.558+0000) > > So how would Tahm be defined. To me he seems like a mix of both (mostly a juggernaut in my opinion). He can perform both but doesn’t excel at either. Well, it USED to be that he was a tank and support. It was just that the Devour is too good, and now the Tongue with his passive is too good for sustained stunlocking. But the thing is, he's only good 1v1. Teamfights, he has to stick with peeling with his Devour, and movement with his ulti. So I wouldn't call him a juggernaut, just a misplaced support tank who is too good in a sololane.
> Teamfights, he has to stick with peeling with his Devour, and movement with his ulti. To be fair his Devour isn't all that great peeling as it is basically like a Zhonyas but worse as instead of AoE and such missing or DPS and Assassins hanging around because their target can no longer take damage the damage will now likely go into Tahm (and Tahm and his ally isn't going anywhere fast with the slow and grounded effect) It's only use is against burst damage (though it does require Tahm to basically sit on the one he wants to protect because of the low range and Tahm not having the mobility to quickly enough get to a target unless the burst is really slow and telegraphed) or to protect an ally while the rest of the team is able to push the enemies away Though Tahm can really screw over juggernauts or basically any immobile melee champion thanks to his low cooldown slow/stun And I personally really don't like the way Tahm's ultimate is... it is very difficult to make good use out of it without being premade (voice chat) except as a split pushing tool or when Tahm is strong enough to just use it to jump on someone by himself.... and there is also the issue of it being so terrible at level 6 but being actually pretty decent/good at level 11+... which really really sucks for support Tahm as he isn't likely to get to 11+ anytime soon But that might just be me being biased wanting support Tahm back....
: PSA: Please remember Juggernauts =/= Tanks
> A juggernaut just fights whoever the hell he/she wants. Actually juggernaut usually just fight whoever they can get to as a lot of juggernauts don't have good mobility or target selection but they have usually have a lot of raw damage and can maul anyone they are actually able to get onto (Juggernauts also often have healing tied to hitting their abilities meaning that if they get kited they are not only prevented from dealing damage they are also often easier to kill)
: As support main i can assure you, that Support can't carry alone. Sure a good support means a hell of a difference, but will not win the game without at least one good teammate. Poker supports need the ADC to poke as well. Otherwise their trading will end up badly. Assuming the enemy is not an idiot. Tank supports need the ADC to ract the engage. Otherwise they just end up 2v1. Not engaging will lose the lane against poker, and protector support. Fast agains poker, and slow against protector. Protector support needs a teammate they can work with in teamfight. Someone worth protecting. That person is not neccessarily the ADC. Better give everything to a fed Yi, than a worthless Jihn as Lulu. As for building. They still got less gold. It's pretty much the weakness of the poker supports. If they fail to get some kills/assist early, then the lack of gold makes them worthless until late. I remember non-fed support Lux putting out whole combo on ADC, and dealt like 40% damage. Took like 3 seconds for him to get it back from lifesteal. As tank building QSS isn't much problem since mr. is good anyway. As protector building QSS means delaying other important items. Though their lack of items is not that critical.
> As tank building QSS isn't much problem since mr. is good anyway. As protector building QSS means delaying other important items. Though their lack of items is not that critical. And might not even be necessary especially if it is an engage tank who generally start off fights with their CC.... after all if the tank has already used their CC and utility then being able to absorb 100% of Mordekaisers damage on top of that isn't a bad thing (you are building to be able to soak damage so being given the perfect opportunity where the enemy is forced to damage you isn't necessarily a bad thing) Yes of course the tank will likely get crushed in the 1v1 but the 4v4 should favor the tanks team (though of course that depends a lot on the teams)
: I was wondering how support would work. How about tanks? Can tanks reasonably build QSS for mord?
To be fair Tanks if they aren't immediately ulted can often be a bad target simply because after they have used their ultimate and CC they don't mind being able to absorb 100% Mordekaisers damage while they have their CC on cooldown... yeah Mordekaiser will likely crush them in the 1v1 but they likely wouldn't have that much else to offer their team other than being a big body so that trade is beneficial to the tanks team assuming they don't somehow lose the 4v4 or are only able to go even Like if Malphite has already use his R + E and Q then him being pulled away doesn't really hurt his team much as he doesn't really have much left to aid his own team (or hamper the enemy team) so Malphite being able to absorb 100% of Mordekaisers damage for a while is clearly beneficial to Malphite
: can you hotfix tahm already?
It would be great to get back support Tahm Or I suppose he might still work as a "support" in the same way as Brand works as a support But we all know that isn't going to happen because of how much better his W is in pro play
Jaspers (EUW)
: Understanable but a lawful man would not murder those not directly involved with the ones he wants to overthrow. Even a tyrant needs subjects. Sylas didn't care, he killed for the sake of killing, even if he has a cause. Lawful usually means bound by rules or a moral code, he clearly is not. Darius is more Lawful Neutral.
> Lawful usually means bound by rules or a moral code, he clearly is not. How so? His moral code or rules could be almost anything as long as it is consistent and he values and follows them then he would be lawful wouldn't he? That is why lawful evil characters are a thing as they follow their own rules/morals but those rules morals don't need to be "good"
Vectros (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=OHminus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qPjVnO4p,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-03-30T23:24:49.736+0000) > > I'm sure if I scroll down there will be a bunch of bruiser mains screaming for tanks to be unviable as a whole > > "REEEE TANKS SHOULDN'T EVEN BE IN TOP LANE REEEE MAKE THEM GO JUNGLE OR SUPPORT REEEE TOP LANE IS FOR BRUISERS AND MELEE CARRIES ONLY REEEEE" As one who plays tanks and bruisers, but prefers playing bruisers...I think both should be viable in top and jungle. For lane matchups a bruiser should generally crush a tank in lane, but a tank is more useful come team fight time. Tanks should be able to do well in lane by principle of being able to soak up poke, imo-so long as the tank doesn't actively try to fight someone in an extended trade, they should be capable of getting farm without caring about whatever poke comes out. On the flip side, they shouldn't be capable of poking out their opponent. Both sides, when a tank is involved, should be reliant on ganks if they want to actually kill the other.
> Tanks should be able to do well in lane by principle of being able to soak up poke, imo-so long as the tank doesn't actively try to fight someone in an extended trade, they should be capable of getting farm without caring about whatever poke comes out. On the flip side, they shouldn't be capable of poking out their opponent. Tanks can't really soak up poke as they generally don't have that good sustain and tanks being able to farm without caring about poke would potentially be really dangerous... because tanks are good teamfighters/late game and if they are also able to easily get through lane without too much issue (they can shrug off poke) then why wouldn't you pick a tank (well in SoloQ you can't always rely on your team so maybe people still wouldn't pick tanks but still) And how low would a tanks base damages need to be for them to be unable to poke out even a squishy enemy champion probably very very low which would also likely mean they would never work as a jungler as their damage would be too low for them to be able to effectively farm the jungle at all
: Kaisa's shield ratio is at 16 is 150 + 200% AD + 75% ap, so the total shield should have been 488\*2 + 150 + 31\*.75 = 1,149.25 Something's missing but I have no idea. She doesn't have seraphic embrance and I don't see a support or something. Even with the revitalize rune it would bump it up to 1,264.175. Or it's a visual bug.
> [{quoted}](name=How Do You Meta,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6XXWtbiq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-31T16:25:13.294+0000) > > Kaisa's shield ratio is at 16 is 150 + 200% AD + 75% ap, so the total shield should have been 488\*2 + 150 + 31\*.75 = 1,149.25 > Something's missing but I have no idea. She doesn't have seraphic embrance and I don't see a support or something. Even with the revitalize rune it would bump it up to 1,264.175. > Or it's a visual bug. {{item:3046}} Can give up to 600 shield at level 18 which lasts for 2 seconds (though it is difficult to say if Kaisai took any damage that would trigger it but that is probably the case)
: The fact that game-length on average is longer this season than last season is irrelevant
> So what’s the issue? Really, this goes back to the game disproportionately favoring offense over defense. In the long run, it is necessary for offense to favor defense. Actually I think favoring defense over offense is fine IF and only IF the defense is reactive or otherwise have some setup or requirement which allows it to be played around or negated (but yes stat wise defense has to be weaker than offense in the late game but it is fine if defense spike harder or earlier) Obvious example of reactive defensive abilities being stronger than offensive ones are Fiora Ripost and Yasuo Windwall which can fully negate any offensive abilities or attacks (though Windwall do have some limitations on what it can negate)
: > [{quoted}](name=Strawberrycocoa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F4nvEveK,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-28T17:36:27.227+0000) > > It just doesn't make any sense to me Let me explain. You can't have everything in your kit. The champions you mentioned (Divers) have some defensive abilities/sustain, but don't really have any innate tankiness or good base stats. As in, they die really fast. Those are the champions that created the meme "just cc them". That's their weakness. CC. If a squishy champion can't use their mobility spells to get away, and can't damage the backline, what are they going to do? That's right. They're going to die. Juggernauts are a bit different, they have a bunch of tankiness abilities/good base stats AND a lot of damage, however they don't have much mobility and basically just have to run at you. Their weakness is getting kited since they need to get up in your face to deal any damage. (idiot juggernaut players take note, teleport is dogshit please take Ghost if you want to win games ty) Tanks are obviously tanky, and they normally are loaded with CC. They need to rely on their base damage (and/or %hp damage in some cases) in order to kill people. This can become a problem when Riot overbuffs a tank's base stats or %hp damage since they aren't really supposed to deal damage in the first place, however they do need SOME damage to stay relevant in a non-competitive environment since you can't really carry a team if you don't deal any damage. Hope that cleared things up a bit for you! (I didn't mention marksmen or mages since they're a bit more complicated in relation to the other classes and I don't have all day)
Well to be fair mobility is incredibly valuable as it can be both defensive (avoiding damage/cc or just escaping) or offensive (chasing and setting up to more easily landing your own skill shots if they originate from your champion) and of course there is also quite a bit of utility in just being able to get around on the map more quickly Which is also of course why almost every champion take flash (well then again Flash is a blink which means it has no travel time and can bypass abilities and terrain which usually stop dashes in addition to having no cast time) I do think mobility is very often undervalued when it comes to powerbudget but I also think it is partially because it has to be because mobility is so powerful but at the same time it is also rather useless if the champion doesn't have the power to back up the mobility to do something (though I suppose they could be a decent split pusher or skirmisher by mostly relying on being able to outmaneuver enemies even if they lack the power to win a straight up fight)
: If you compare the damage output of a champion like Ahri with a champion like Veigar, you will see a drastic difference. The thing that frustrates people is that the mobile character still needs "enough" damage to function, and there's no benefit for the immobile champion "overkilling" someone.
Well yes though you could allow immobile champions to have shorter cooldowns so that they can potentially get a second chance if they miss or get the chance to kill a second target if they hit Though of course the main problem with champions like Veigar isn't just being immobile it is also that he doesn't have that great of a range so he is vulnerable to being picked off before getting a good opportunity for using his abilities or being forced to burn it on a tank before he gets blown up
: You can only freeze when the allied wave has less minions than the enemy wave, so it pushes to you. If you tank the wave and stop it from reaching your turret and stop the enemy minions from dying, you can pretty much freeze forever. If the enemy wave becomes too big, trim it with autos (no aoe spells) so you don't take too much damage when you try to punish your enemy. Freezing only works if you're ahead, otherwise the enemy can just all in or trade with you, push the wave to your turret and break your freeze.
> otherwise the enemy can just all in or trade with you, push the wave to your turret and break your freeze. Well yes they can break it however doing so will make them somewhat vulnerable to a jungle gank as they will likely have to overextend to push and force the minions into the turret so there is some risk to doing it
: Just switch Wit's AS for HP, buff it's MR drain to 8 hits of 5 (Max 40 MR), and buff the Damage to 65. Boom, it becomes a AP bruiser item. Decent on: {{champion:245}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:268}}{{champion:432}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:4}} Good on: {{champion:154}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:84}}
{{champion:268}} {{champion:154}} ? I don't think it would be useful at all on those two? Because Azir can't trigger on-hit effects when he is using his soldiers And Zac usually don't get to auto attack that much because of the channel on his E and R (though he does have time to AA some when not using his ultimate but there is also picking up his blobs so it could work)
: Eh, his kit largely stays the same though. Sure he has his w "skill shot," but his kit largely is still press q, e to your target, whack whack whack whack whack. And they gave his r range invulnerability to invalidate a lot of peel, which could cause balance issues if he's overtuned (because before at least you could cc him - now that's less of an option).
> And they gave his r range invulnerability to invalidate a lot of peel, which could cause balance issues if he's overtuned (because before at least you could cc him - now that's less of an option). You can still CC him though? You just can damage him? And not like Xin Zhao can deal much damage either if you aren't inside his range
SanKakU (NA)
: They used to have a Gromp Smite buff that scaled off of maximum HP. IIRC it was immolation and was what I thought to be the main reason Sejuani got reworked but who really knows. Maybe it's because they wanted to move her ultimate(or rather a new version of it) over to Neeko.
> IIRC it was immolation and was what I thought to be the main reason Sejuani got reworked but who really knows. Actually it was closer to Thornmail as it triggered on enemies auto attacking you (and yes it did potentially deal a lot of damage)
: Huge Problem with Tanks: Mid-tier items feel awful.
> Phage gives you some MS when you use physical skills. Nitpick but... Phage (And Trinity Force) only gives MS when you AA or kill a minion (Or champion I suppose) It is only Black Cleaver which triggers on physical damage (abilities or auto attacks)
: Please please PLEASE don't let the Vayne buff get onto live servers...
> It will give her perma steath late game as long as she autos right after each Q. That isn't how Vayne Q works? She won't be able to be perma stealth as the cooldown on Q only starts going down after using the empowered auto attack
forresto (NA)
: My perception is that the problem isnt necessarily marksmen themselves, but tanks being weak. Right now tanks can only tank properly in the mid-game if the enemy is weak. If the enemy is breaking even or fed, the frontline tends to melt fairly quickly. As a result no one really plays tanks these days, and you get 0-1 pure tanks per game for most games. This leaves the field fairly open for assassins to do their thing thanks to a lack of defensive cc. Marksmen also feel underwhelming in this scenario because their job is to do consistent damage against tanks. Instead, they have to fight damage-heavy bruisers, burst-mages, or assassins. When its between "you 100-0 me, and I take several seconds to kill you" you know who's going to win that trade. Adcs are also notorious for lacking real escape mechanisms. I think vayne and Caitlyn are the only ones with strong mobility. Ik some like mf or twitch can get movespeed buffs, but it's really not the same when you're trying to escape.
> Adcs are also notorious for lacking real escape mechanisms. I think vayne and Caitlyn are the only ones with strong mobility. Ik some like mf or twitch can get movespeed buffs, but it's really not the same when you're trying to escape. {{champion:81}} have mobility? And there is also {{champion:145}} who has invisibility (with stats requirements) and her ult mobility and shield {{champion:498}} she doesn't have mobility but her Ultimate can be a pretty good defensive tool {{champion:429}} she kind of has mobility?
FSRER (EUNE)
: I will tell the most useless and the most broken champs in each lane. **TOP** {{champion:266}}, bad design, poor gameplay, why play such a bad lane bully while there are many better ({{champion:58}} {{champion:24}}) {{champion:420}}, yes I know that many of you won't think she is that bad but really, **SHE IS**. Try playing any melee champion at the lane he was supposed to be played vs this beast. Get near and walls, tentacles, e, half hp gone! try to 1v1 when she is lvl 6 even if she is 400 health and you are full? nope, you will get bursted from the first second she ults. Do i have to say more? **JUNGLE** {{champion:77}}. We've seen many good udyrs lately (Im eune plat) but that does not mean he is good. Damage only done by the Q buff they did to him. His gank potential? what makes a champion good at jungling???? He runs at ya...... just that.....runs at ya.... And he cant take any damage at all. Why not play {{champion:86}} jungle instead? {{champion:121}}. He wasn't always so broken but yeah.... every players knows what I mean. 1 shooting with the ad jungle item. Need more? **MID** {{champion:136}}. The first in this list who actually got some nice lore! Nice concept, nice lore but.... yeah.... bad time for this champ to exsist. He takes time and items to do damage and when the enemy midlaner not only will have less mana consumption but will also have either a dash or a stun burst combo. {{champion:7}}. Dash, double dash, 900 range root, another dash, a q and the most balanced part of her is her ult which allows her to cast a ability again (if i remember right) This in theory sounds just like a a more complex assassin which you need to learn in order to play. Yeah....right...... She would actually be that but her high damage scaling allows her to 1 shot even early in the game. **ADC** {{champion:96}}. Don't get me wrong, he used to be very good but after they nerfed his range and his ability to have attack speed over 2.50 which was not so bad since true damage did not exsist and all he did was mixed damage. Thornmail and spirit visage and you were kinda ok. Of course right now he is by far the worst adc. {{champion:119}}. Some might think that {{champion:145}} is worse but let me explain. Kaisa does damage, she can't get so easily fed if you know how to play against her (aka, play defensively, let your support poke and for gods sake, ward the river) but at late she will burst your more than anyone. Draven on the other hand, is one, if not the only one, that can play with conqueror at as ranged champion, can 1 shot adc and support with stormrazor (don't get me started on that item) and overall easier to get kills and he does the damage so early he can easily dominate every matchup. And last but not least **SUPPORT** {{champion:555}}. The worst "support" **BY FAR**. Is he a support? no! He can hook a enemy on with a very solid combo but most of the time he will take all kills and he will actually become the adc. So...no.. and riot knew that this would happen if they released such a champion. This is a tough decision since many supports are good with certain combos but for me, the best support will always be {{champion:267}}. Want poke? you got it. Want heal? you got it. Want knockup? you got it. The perfect support. Just please, at the healing ability she has make it so that if he pokes you and then heal herself, the heal to be reduced since she poked but if she only uses it to heal herself to have a bigger mana cost. That would make her perfect. What ya guys think?
> {{champion:96}} Don't get me wrong, he used to be very good but after they nerfed his range and his ability to have attack speed over 2.50 which was not so bad since true damage did not exsist and all he did was mixed damage. Thornmail and spirit visage and you were kinda ok. Of course right now he is by far the worst adc. To be fair the whole allowing Kog'maw to get 5.0 attack speed kind of warped all on-hit items around him making it so that they were balanced around Kog'maw (and garbage on most other champions) or rather OP on Kog'maw
: So, Just my opinion, but tankiness is fairly valuable. The issue is timing your entries. Too early and you get nuked by 5 man focus fire, which any one champion besides maybe a late game chogath should be. Too late and your team is already dead. Just right and you absorb a lot of key cooldowns, while your damage threats move in and make it so they can't burn litterally everything on you. Tanks will always be more powerful in cordinated play for this reason. As for buffing tanks damage as the way to strengthen them... Kinda do agree that much. Turning tanks into bruisers isn't really that enjoyable in my opinion. Not every tank is in this catagory, but the recent ornn changes on the pbe seemed like absolutly massive damage boosts. Perhaps im wrong on that, but id rather have seen less damage and more of a boost to the tankiness. I think they've started avoiding that though, since its almost always one extreme or the other. Tanks are either tanky enough to survive and pull off some rather powerful utility, or their not, and they can't. perhaps a damage direction is a better long term plan? Not sure on that but I think these Ornn changes might be the first of a series of experiments like that.
> Tanks are either tanky enough to survive and pull off some rather powerful utility, or their not, and they can't. perhaps a damage direction is a better long term plan? Well that is the thing most Tanks are usually quite able to get off their utility/damage yes they might not get off a second rotation without durability... but then again they probably won't even with durability?
Show more

Champion Skin

Level 87 (EUW)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion