: It'd be cool if there was a rune that buffed the first stun or slow every minute or so to either stun for longer or apply a mini-Exhaust effect. That's the sort of thing frontlines could use more of. Also doesn't it seem weird that Glacial is in Inspiration and Guardian Resolve?
> It'd be cool if there was a rune that buffed the first stun or slow every minute or so to either stun for longer I don't think that would be a good idea because it would be very powerful on Junglers who then only use that effect when they gank or something like Twisted Fate... point and click stun now with even longer duration > apply a mini-Exhaust effect. That would probably be better as then you aren't as screwed if you are trying to get away from a gank
Yets4240 (NA)
: Saying Darius' bleed, while only talking about his 5 stack bleed + Noxious Might, which requires him to be hitting you for 3+ seconds if you let him Q + E + W auto reset, or otherwise takes him over 5 seconds of auto attacking as a gap-closerles pure melee who is one of the easiest champions in the entire game to kite, and even immobile champs can easily disengage from him with a single (soft) CC, is somehow lacking in counterplay or "actually [doesn't] have any counterplay" is so laughably wrong its ludicrous to even mention. Even once its applied, you can heal, shield, regen, life steal, spell vamp, omni vamp, health boost (ala Lulu R, Nasus R, Trundle R, Renek R), etc away the damage, not to mention you can QSS away the stacks as well, which is fantastic for denying him an empowered ult, and can be cast during his ult wind up.
> not to mention you can QSS away the stacks as well QSS was changed more than 3 years ago to only remove CC so it doesn't affect DoT's or other non-CC debuffs https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-69-notes But yes generally I agree that only looking at the best case is rather silly if it isn't reliable... like Veigar W is one of the strongest abilities in the game being an ability that is AoE, low cooldown, high base damage and AP ratio if you look at the best case scenario.... but it really isn't all that great because it is so unreliable
: I cant remember it for certain but in pretty sure riot doesnt like DoT too much and generally try to avoid it unless the ability is a perfect fit for the champion since DoT encourages passive lanes with barely any interaction past walking up and applying a DoT
> since DoT encourages passive lanes with barely any interaction past walking up and applying a DoT How is that any different than champions walking up and applying their instant damage abilities then backing off? (assuming the target isn't already dead)
: Just wanted to say that I find your concept great and I look up to your love for this champion and the time you invested in it. I got only one (small) remark: I would change the passive cooldown to get reduced by 5 - 7.5s instead of getting completely reset on taking damage. I feel like it might be too oppressive in lategame teamfights. Can't say for sure though as it's hard to judge with only a concept. Let's hope Riot listens so we might get a reworked Karma like this soon!
> I would change the passive cooldown to get reduced by 5 - 7.5s instead of getting completely reset on taking damage. I feel like it might be too oppressive in lategame teamfights. Can't say for sure though as it's hard to judge with only a concept. I don't think it would be that bad in teamfights because it doesn't heal that much but it is a constant healing as long as she is able to auto attack... which means that it is kind of useless against burst damage and CC is also a problem Ideally you would AA after every time you get hit but that isn't always doable especially in a teamfight if she is being focused... and there is also the fact that the healing only triggers after 50% health making her even more vulnerable to being bursted It probably would be more difficult to deal with in smaller fights especially for low damage champions
Yosigi (NA)
: Meant to just fix a spelling mistake, not delete. Oops. Here's what I posted: Besides the spires, Skarner's kit is pretty good for the type of champion he is. The main issue is that most people, including the pros, have forgotten that he isn't an engage tank: he's an extended skirmisher. He's not designed to zoom in, steal the carry, and then be useless. He's meant to follow up on engage from a real tank in a team fight and use his ult to peel, and outside team fights he's meant to be one of the best duelists in the game. Riot has made the mistake of giving him so much cc that he can't be allowed to have decent damage numbers, or he becomes too strong. This leads to his current pro play style of being a Righteous Glory Predator ult bot. The original Skarner, the champ I learned how to play League on, was a sticky bruiser. The perma slow on his Q was a bit cancerous, but that and his ult was all he had for cc so he had to get on top of you first to do anything. Skarner was part of the juggernaut rework of season 5, but he's never really been one. Other juggernauts (Darius, Illaoi, Volibear, etc.) don't need a full damage build to be able to win. Skarner, on the other hand, does not have their level of damage unless he devotes 3 items to doing damage, at which point he gets one-shotted by anyone with burst. Skarner's not a tank. He's not a juggernaut. He's a skirmisher and duelist, and it's time Riot was reminded of that.
> he's an extended skirmisher. He's not designed to zoom in, steal the carry, and then be useless. The thing is with how fast teamfights are usually decided when would you ever want a champion that is good at extended skirmishes?
iiGazeii (NA)
: The downsides of Senna
> First of all, her autoattacks are slow. The cast time on her autos is 0.5 seconds, where most ADCs have a cast time of 0.2-0.3 on their autos. She hits like a truck, but her autos leave her vulnerable to skillshots. Can't you just cancel the auto attack? I mean yes you lose damage but if it means avoiding a skill shot it is probably worth it right
musixxal (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3OzYZTRh,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-10-30T13:10:57.657+0000) > > I mean she can deny kills/resets cross map which could be annoying even as Katarina though yeah in straight up fights it doesn't seem like Senna has much she can do against Katarina yeah but so can soraka, she doesn't even require aiming :/ so if these folks are gonna play senna now because she's "kewl" then whatever i guess, she's easier to deal with than soraka already.
Yeah it is a skill shot but the AoE on the shield part is very very very generous
musixxal (EUW)
: she looks pretty cool. i can play katarina into her and ruin her day, just looking at her kit :/ so yeah no reason for me to ban her probably any other aoe/untargeted casters can be played into her too :/ global ult will probably be nerfed but it looks fun as it exists right now. the stealth is whatever really, i find this part interesting, unique, but not something "omg it's so brok3nz." currently wondering what she scales on, and wondering what her heal ratio's are. expecting mixed ratio's but rito gave us riven so anything is possible.
I mean she can deny kills/resets cross map which could be annoying even as Katarina though yeah in straight up fights it doesn't seem like Senna has much she can do against Katarina
Wolfeur (EUW)
: "Senna's E is so broken, makes the entire team invisible" *laughs in AP Malphite*
You don't need to stand in it? You can just enter it and leave you remain "untargetable" however you can be seen and hit by skill shots and the untargetability wears off if enemies get too close or you deal damage (though I mean as ranged champion you still might not want to "face check" melee champions to be able to hit them) And if multiple enemies enter it then you can't tell who is who which might be a big deal if one of them is a huge threat and the other isn't
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3mYOyzob,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-24T22:09:46.973+0000) > > Any Player who is going to flame some one in normal over the other players rank deserves any punishment they get. Its just trash behavior. > > That being said normal are lower quality matches by design. They will have more mismatches and more low quality games. Citing MM in Normals as an issue is silly because its inherently not made to be as competitive. Most the changes folks would want/suggest to improve normal make it closer in functionality to the ranked ques. > > I do think even in ranked its possible to see a plat and silver player in the same game. Silver 1 with Gold 3 MMR is possible, I had that on my [alt ](https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=notnotkaiguy)this season when I was running some MMR and Support impact tests. Had I qued with a G1 with Plat MMR I think its entirely reasonable to see a game where you have a team of Gold and the silver vs a team with gold and plats. > > Largely because Division 4 demotion protection is so god dam massive you can sink 2 full divisions with out it impacting your rank. Its not very difficult to look at match averages for players in their recent games to see if they do or don't belong in a match thou. > > So... Yea. Please show a Pick for the Silver in a Plat match. I expect most of them will be Plat4 and silver1 in a Gold average match if you look at it, with the occasional WTF duo impact. Open to being wrong if some one can provide proof. It's a lot of people who play this game, including millions of low MMR players who just play normals. Riot institutes MMR in norms, largely because of this problem - it only take one player a couple hundred points over the other 9 to dominate and ruin everybody's game. And then , besides, the unlucky fellow who laned against that one will get flamed forever. Riot does not apply any different standards (that I can see ) for behaviour in norms vs ranked games. This is also one of the big problems with smurfing that people complain about. A lot of toxicity is propitiated by smurfs. People speak and behave irrationally when confronted with things that don't make sense, and when in a match (normal or ranked), there is a presumption that all players are of similar ability. (So, subconsciously, a player KNOWS that what he is seeing shouldn't be happenning... it's not fair to judge people harshly for how they act in these circumstances.) Having said that... I play a lot of norms. I check the mmr according to the available tools in most of the games. I have to say, it's considerably improved. In the vast majority of soloq matches, all of the players are pretty close. Lately.
> This is also one of the big problems with smurfing that people complain about. A lot of toxicity is propitiated by smurfs. People speak and behave irrationally when confronted with things that don't make sense, and when in a match (normal or ranked), there is a presumption that all players are of similar ability. (So, subconsciously, a player KNOWS that what he is seeing shouldn't be happenning... it's not fair to judge people harshly for how they act in these circumstances.) Well when the toxic person gets his/her account banned then of course they will either quite the game or make a smurf account so yeah a lot of smurfs are likely quite toxic
: The problem with the Cloud Dragon Soul and the Kneejerk change to Nimbus Cloak
This is a perfect place for a Riot favorite.... X hit passive (probably 3 right?) like Electrocute where triggering it gives a burst of movement speed There are a lot of levers to pull here * making it more difficult to trigger by requiring more hits? * Making the movement speed lower/higher * decay or last shorter/longer * Cooldown on triggering it or individual cooldown on enemy champions to allow triggering it multiple times in fights with more enemy champions (like Nautilus passive)
Sageace (NA)
: It's not just itemization that is the problem. It's also the runes. Too much damage there.
CRD being so common is also kind of troublesome for tanks in that well if your abilities have less downtime it is less punishing just dumping it on the tank who happens to be in range and usually easy to hit
Quáx (NA)
: Riot claims they want to promote fun interactions. Then why are they doing THE OPPOSITE
I think Akali Shroud or something close to it could be good on a defensive tank allowing them to zone the enemy team without the enemy team being able to easily damage them of course if they don't have a team around it won't really do much as yes they could punish with CC but if there aren't allies around they wouldn't be likely to burst anyone (and there is a lot of interesting utility you can place on it... effect on allies being in the AoE... effect on enemies being in the AoE... buffs on entering/leaving the AoE or on entering/leaving stealth for the tank) Though even on a tank who can't just blow you up from the shroud I could see it still ending up being somewhat annoying to deal with Akali as she currently is.... is able to play aggressively like a fighter while still having the burst and mobility of assassin.... but it is very difficult to change without just nerfing her into the ground because of the way her kit is
: > [{quoted}](name=DivineMantra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KpjLsWb5,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-26T05:48:44.074+0000) > So what should Riot do about these changes? Well, I propose two things. For one, and I think the entire league community will agree with me on this, for the love of god, nerf aftershock. Its the only rune since the new rune release that hasn't seen any sort of appropriate nerf, while pretty much every other rune was tuned down somewhere along the season. It provides way too much tank stats (which is then followed up by damage), for it to be considered balanced. Additionally, all of these hook supports synergize so well with the keystone that it just adds an unnecessary level to their power. Second, just straight up revert some of the changes made to these hook supports. Here are somethings that I think they can do. > I disagree. Aftershock is one of the few defensive runes that actually can save a tank in League of Oneshot. The nerfs need to happen in damage across the board before Aftershock gets hit. Conquerer definitely needs to be deleted first as well. > {{champion:53}} Blitz: Whoever came up with the range buff on his Q should really be called into question for how they do their job. This change is blatant gross negligence for support players. No one wanted, asked, or needed this change. Just revert it. > Yes, this is a stupid change. Blitz was fine, it's part of Riot's "Change for the sake of Change" mentality. > {{champion:412}} Thresh: Can we talk about how Thresh has never been considered weak since I've started playing League three years ago? I'm not saying he should be considered "weak," but it's just crazy to me how he's never really been out of the meta for the 3 seasons I've played through. Revert the cd buffs that you guys gave to his hook a while back. This will make sure Thresh players have to think about when they are throwing out the hook, as opposed to just spamming it like they do now. > As an ADC Thresh main, when I support/adc against an enemy Thresh it's really laughable how easy it is to punish the Q-spammer playstyle. I wouldn't mind his Q cooldown being reverted like you said, but if you really want to balance Thresh, make it so that enemies can take his lantern. Oh, trying to save your Caitlyn who has 5hp left? Well shit, looks like the enemy Alistar just took your lantern, and you's bout to get trampled son. > {{champion:111}} Nautilus: I know they "nerfed" his Q damage a few patched ago, but that was a joke. He still does way too much damage for how easy it is to land a hook (or even just point click for an ult). A damage nerf on his ultimate or Q (probably both) would probably be the best way to fix nautilus. > Nautilus never belonged in the bot lane as anything more than a niche support pick. His E cooldown buffs from a few seasons ago need to be reverted, and more of his power needs to be focused into his W. > {{champion:555}} Pyke: Nerf the amount of gold that he gives to his allies. It's honestly insane how sometimes Ill spectate games with pyke in it, and he winds up having more gold than the enemy AD, simply because of his ability to generate SO much gold. Also, tone down the healing that he gets from the grey health. It's literally impossible to poke him down. > Ban this boi every game until an R change goes through. Execute+Aoe+range+reset+lethality+ADscaling far too strong on his R alone, and his kit otherwise is still disgustingly good. I even ban Pykes on my team, because they're not fun to play with or against. > {{champion:89}} Leona: Honestly, Leona is probably the most balanced one on here. Don't get me wrong, she is very strong, but I think only a slight nerf is probably needed for Leo. I would say probably lower the damage on her W a little, or increase the cd on her Q. The fact that her Q is on a 5 second cd at the start of the game is a little too strong in my opinion. > The change for her was unnecessary, BUT she works well to counter the other hook champions on this list. Additionally, picking up Alistar when you normally play enchanters is a great idea for countering -ANY- of the members of hook city.
> Ban this boi every game until an R change goes through. Execute+Aoe+range+reset+lethality+ADscaling far too strong on his R alone, and his kit otherwise is still disgustingly good. I even ban Pykes on my team, because they're not fun to play with or against. Not to mention that Pyke ult deals true damage and ignores shields if the execute triggers
: Mordekaiser's New ult and it's utility
How is that any different from {{champion:90}} this guy exists and if you are a melee champion you kind of have to buy QSS as there is generally no other way to avoid getting killed by Malzahar ultimate If you are a ranged champion and can't 1v1 {{champion:82}} you need to buy QSS (well most melee champions can't either but they might have enough durability to survive)
: I’ve played for a long time, but off and on. can you describe what old skarner used to be? I don’t remember his kit
Way back his kit wasn't that different His passive reduced his cooldowns when Auto attacking and his empowered Q slowed and his E marks healed him Then if I remember correctly there was a time when his passive made his abilities apply a stack and when they had 3 stacks and was auto attacked by Skarner they were stunned (I don't quite remember but I think it was something like that) And then we have current Skarner https://lol.gamepedia.com/Skarner (patch 4.10) > CRYSTAL VENOM: Skarner's damaging spells apply a 'Crystal Venom' debuff to enemy Champions and large monsters for 5 seconds > UTILITY: If Skarner lands a basic attack on a target with 3 stacks of 'Crystal Venom', he will deal an additional 20-105 magic damage and stun the target for 0.5/0.75/1 second > CRYSTAL VENOM: After being stunned, targets cannot be debuffed by Crystal Venom for 6 seconds
Xintium (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yZIvfMTw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-25T16:30:15.145+0000) > > Not really. They get released, are broken for a bit, then get their numbers gutted and mechanics removed. There is no such thing as "free". Everything a champion does consumes part of their power budget and is reflected in their performance. The issue a lot of these champs present is a high skill ceiling makes their performance drastically different in super high ELO vs normal and low ELO. It makes them impossible to balance them in Masters+ without completely gutting them everywhere else . Look at a champ like Irelia. Still super strong in high ELO while being trash (45% winrate) in Plat+. Ryze, Aatrox, Azir, and others have the same problem I agree on the gutting numbers, but removing mechanics is by far less frequent and has been done only sporadically. The "power budget" philosophy is perfectly fine in theory, but I haven't seen any realistic application of it. Contrary to what you have written, there are real "free" things that champion gets by virtue of (1) existing; (2) putting a single point in a skill; (3) upgrading an ability (somehow); (4) a combination of the previous. I'm not against that. I'm not against Katarina R getting free Grevious Wounds or Yasuo R getting free Armor Pen. No, that (alone) is not a problem. Katarina Grevious Wounds in R was never even accounted for in power-budget considerations. Again, that fact (alone) is not a problem. But you can't reason in a vacuum. I like Kai'Sa, really. It's one of the few ADCs I enjoy playing and watching. But Kai'Sa, honestly, just has too much in her kit for an ADC. It's overloaded and that's a fact. Compare Kai'Sa to pretty much any "old" ADC and you will immediately see the difference. Take pre-rework Graves (if anybody remembers that such a thing existed and was an actual ADC) and compare it to Kai'Sa. Or even Vayne. Kai'Sa is basically Vayne 2.0. Champion kits being overloaded has little (read: nothing) to do with winrates. Camille has probably the most overloaded kit in all LoL. Is she broken? Right now, no. But who cares? Overload and winrate are uncorrelated, if not straight up independent, variables. You can have the most overloaded kit in history and still have trash winrate across all elos. Because numbers dictate winrate much, much more than kit overload. Especially in the so-called "damage meta". Akali was gutted and had one of her most frustrating mechanics removed. She still is more overloaded than old champions like Annie, Garen, Tristana. Where is the power budget constrain? Akali still has a greater power budget than Annie (and many others, Annie is just an example). And I don't see Riot removing mechanics and buffing numbers in the near future. Don't let me get started on Irelia, because she was omni-present in pro-play for too damn long and deserved all the nerfs she got. It was just absurd seeing Irelia every single game, except when she was banned. Riot messed up big time with her, only Kalista (during her "golden age"), old Kassadin (yeah, the 98% banrate shit, was it S2?), Lulu, S5 Ryze (the "perma-W + spell spam" iteration), and Maokai (pre-rework on R) were, historically, so much disgusting and meta-warping. In S9 "holy mountain" of champions who dominated pro-play, Irelia is right there, alongside (reworked) Aatrox, (reworked) Akali, and pre-nerf Sylas and Kai'Sa (due to almost all other ADCs being subpar). Though, Sylas primarily due to its R being a "meta-ability" (instead of a regular ability), so basically Sylas can be worth 2 champions even when slightly behind, ignoring any power-budget constrain the original champion had with that ability in mind, think Kennen R on Sylas, Kennen (power-budget wise) sacrificed almost everything for that ult (at least pre-nerf), Sylas can happily ignore that and use it. I can only wish that Riot could create a new champion with some mechanics (a "kit loading" comparable to the average of the kit loading we have now, averaging across all champions) and just fine-tune the numbers from there. Instead, they create a champion with an overloaded kit and then need to gut the numbers of that kit not to exceed an imaginary power-budget, which is anyway higher than 20-30% of the champion roster.
> The "power budget" philosophy is perfectly fine in theory, but I haven't seen any realistic application of it. Also mobility seems to have way too little cost to the power budget compared with how powerful it is since most damage (outside of Auto attacks) are skill shots which mobility helps avoid or helps getting in position to land your own skill shots And it makes sense as the value of mobility depends a lot... as the higher your damage and the lower your durability the more valuable mobility is or if it can be used to kite and outrange enemies not allowing them to fight back (Prime example being Ezeral with his decently long range Q combined with the mobility of his E) But mobility isn't very useful if you can get to your enemy but don't have the CC or damage to lock set up allies or kill the enemy themselves (of course it is still useful for staying alive and all champions do have the potential to deal decent damage just with Auto attacks and enough ADC items)
: Looking back at this issue after all these years, here's what I think I would like: 20% CDR: {{item:3110}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3042}} {{item:3115}} 15% CDR: {{item:3110}} {{item:3003}} {{item:3004}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3025}} 10% CDR: {{item:3101}} {{item:3158}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3905}} {{item:3056}} {{item:3102}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3174}} {{item:3024}} {{item:3050}} {{item:3147}} {{item:3100}} {{item:3098}} {{item:3092}} {{item:3096}} {{item:3069}} {{item:3401}} {{item:3161}} {{item:3107}} {{item:2065}} {{item:3504}} {{item:3800}} {{item:3108}} {{item:3222}} {{item:1402}} {{item:1412}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3802}} {{item:3114}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3508}} 5% CDR: {{item:3057}} {{item:3133}} {{item:3067}} {{item:3813}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3163}} {{item:3301}} {{item:3083}} 0% CDR: {{item:3194}} [Most items losing CDR would be compensated. Adaptive Helm could receive increased MR for example.] No more Haste passive on {{item:3802}} or items built from it. {{item:3070}} gives 5% CDR. Items built from Tear of the Goddess grant stats from both mana and over-capped CDR (replacing Transcendence rune). {{item:3110}} builds out of {{item:3070}} + {{item:3024}} + {{item:3082}} and transforms into an upgraded version when Awe is fully stacked. Awe grants bonus health. The upgraded version has a stronger, ramping-up aura which can be toggled on, costing mana each second. {{item:3004}} builds out of {{item:3070}} + {{item:3101}}, gaining its Shock passive (reduced to 1.5% mana on-hit) before upgrading to {{item:3042}} (allowing the full 3% mana on-hit after upgrade). Because it would no longer build from {{item:1037}}, it would provide less AD, and the recipe change would make it somewhat more expensive. Manamune would offer a way for mana-gated AD champions to continue building CDR, while resourceless AD champions would have considerably less access to CDR than before. CDR capping doesn't need to be a super common thing for every champion class, and compensating some items with other strengths, like increased defensive stats, could help improve the game pace. Transcendence rune is removed (now part of Awe passive) and it is replaced by a Spell Weaving or Expose Weakness rune (just give it a 'Sorcery' sounding name, like Blighting Curse, and give it synergy with DOT and AOE). Also if Magic Resistance is increased on many items to compensate for reduced CDR on them, there will be room for a new Sorcery keystone tailored to DPS APCs. Deathfire Touch can make a return as a rune that reduces immediate ability damage dealt in exchange for a larger amount of delayed damage over time. This will allow players to give up instant burst potential in order to deal DOT DPS. For example, the keystone could convert 30% of damage that would be dealt by abilities into a burn over 4 seconds that deals 55% of the original ability damage. This would result in the ability doing 125% in total but spread out over a longer period. Squishy targets would normally die within 4 seconds of fighting, so this mostly impacts fighting frontliners, hence why this addition to the game would fit with increased availability of Magic Resistance on frontliner items.
> {{item:3110}} builds out of {{item:3070}} + {{item:3024}} + {{item:3082}} and transforms into an upgraded version when Awe is fully stacked. Awe grants bonus health. The upgraded version has a stronger, ramping-up aura which can be toggled on, costing mana each second. {{item:3110}} Aura is already quite power in theory that is because it does reduce AA DPS by 15% however if the enemies are kiting CC'ed or whatever that makes them have to do other things than stand and auto attacks reduces the effectiveness of the aura so in practice it usually isn't that great
: The problem with crit is that having 50% crit chance, as Master Yi, ulting and going for someone, autoattack 4 or 5 times and get 0 crits, and then die, while the other guy lives with like 100hp is bullshit. Thats the problem, that crit chance system isnt really... real. There must be a way to do it not so random and do it more... accurate. I don't know how, I have a few ideas but i'm not a developer, the only thing i know is that the current system isn't working in a fair way.
> I don't know how, I have a few ideas but i'm not a developer, the only thing i know is that the current system isn't working in a fair way. The most obvious way of doing it is 1% crit = 1% increased AA damage Which is how much crit on average increase AA damage and nothing changes at 0% crit with it still being 0% increased AA damage and 100% crit with it still being 100% increased AA damage {{item:3031}} would just make it so that 1% crit = 1.25% increased AA damage This is how Ashe passive works just that Ashe gets "Free" +10% increased AA damage however with the downside of her only being able to crit on enemies affected by her passive
Sucction (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uWE07uAa,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-23T18:32:05.945+0000) > > No one likes dealing with enemies that can kill you and can resist being killed, that's ok. What exactly is the problem with crit? Apart from Tryndamere's earlygame, there are no situations where you are getting killed and its like "well, he just got that lucky 1/2/3 crits, othervise i would win" because ADCs usually do a lot of autoattacks so crits somewhat even themselves out. > Replacing "X% chance to crit" with "+X% AA damage" would do neither good nor bad(except for required changes for Tryndamere, Yasuo and Randuins), but there's almost no point in these changes > Also, crit wasn't "nerfed to dumpster". Crit itemisation was. ADCs had 0 AD on their items before their 3rd item(IE). But the crit mechanic itself was the same and it will probably stay like this for a while Untrue. Multiple times I've played Caitlyn, rushed IE, and gotten that lucky headshot crit and just fucking *annihilated* the enemy adc for daring to step on the same screen as me. It's bullshit.
I really think Crit should be made into an AA modifier so 1% crit = 1% increased AA damage (obviously nothing changes at 0% crit = 0% increased AA damage and 100% crit = 100% increased AA damage) Yes it makes crit more consistent and I think that's a good thing as I don't think it is particularly healthy with it sometimes doing a lot... and other times doing nothing....
: This sounds like a terrible way to break bruisers even harder. %damage boost is a terrible idea no offense. Especially in the games current state where the LAST thing we need is more damage.
Crit is already on average equal to 1% increased AA damage per 1% crit... it is just that a lot of the time it does nothing but when it works it does a lot... Normalizing it so you don't have lows of not criting but also removing the highs/burst of when you do crit doesn't seem like that bad of an idea? Or is it better with it being random and doing nothing for then to suddenly deal a lot of burst damage? Also for bruisers Sheen is would possibly be better than crit as Sheen is 100% base AD on just a 1.5 seconds cooldown (if you have low cooldown abilities) which is likely much more often than crits would occur
TehNACHO (NA)
: >his team is standing inside the wall You do realize how incredibly stupid this sounds right. {{champion:54}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:497}} Right? {{champion:555}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:32}} Right?? This is one of the exact reasons why those debates favored Braum. Moving the shield, even if it faces one direction, is far smarter than having your team cluster up behind the Wind Wall.
> is far smarter than having your team cluster up behind the Wind Wall. I mean why wouldn't you if it benefits you (if the enemy is low on AoE or heavily reliant on Ranged AA or such) but yes if it doesn't then you can just not do it (As the opponents are still forced to wait 3.75 seconds, walk around or through it or disengage to deal with it) Then again I guess it doesn't matter as obviously Windwall/Unbreakable are both useless {{champion:12}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} Right? {{champion:24}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:58}} Right?
TehNACHO (NA)
: Shen has three, and one of them is global, and teleports him across the map. He is excused. There's actually been debates about Wind Wall vs Unbreakable and I believe the consensus is Unbreakable is WAY more valuable when you factor that the shield can be repositioned. Big deal especially the higher up you go. It was a debate but in my mind, Yasuo is excused for being fundamentally different enough. As for Panth, he is a squishy melee champion without it. Pantheon also lacks the mobility and flexibility of, let's say, Zed. This is where the cohesiveness of Pantheon's kit is a huge element in this discussion and comparison. One thing that really damns it however is that it does not destroy Skillshots, putting it as an entirely selfish shield. Even if you can argue it's a "better" shield in terms of protecting Panth than Braum, this generally follows the logic of their classes since Panth is definitely worse at defending teammates.
However Windwall does have one big advantage in that it works in all directions so if Yauso/his team is standing inside the wall there is nothing the enemy team can do to hit them with skill shots no matter where they position while Braum Unbreakable only works in one direction
: Old ult was absolutely broken because of the teamwide damage reduction. That's one of the reasons why Mao was hated back then Like OP said if they ever bring it back they should remove the damage reduction and give MS boost/slowfield or just keep the damage absorb to himself
Is it really that OP? 20% damage reduction is equal to increasing a champions CURRENT health by 25% IF they are killed or as close as possible while the effect lasts (note it also increase the effectiveness of healing and shields as they act like health) but of course it has no effect against true damage 25% of an ADC or Squishy isn't that much? {{item:3190}} is probably more though of course being shorter duration and making tanks harder to kill doesn't seem that OP?
puśsý (NA)
: What tanks need
{{item:3193}} the closest thing tanks have is the active on Stoneplate and even that isn't that amazing and it is gated by a cooldown
: I'd prefer tanks/bruisers having more HP to literally everyone dying in sub-4 seconds in teamfights.
If nothing else Riot could probably at least buff {{item:3193}} as nobody outside of tanks are likely to ever build it and even tanks don't always build it because well resistances aren't always that useful (especially against % penetration or true damage) and because it is terrible in lane The active is actually decent for increasing a tanks durability
: The problem is that so many bruiser items make them as tanky as tanks. {{item:3053}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3026}} And many bruiser items, also come overcharged with cdr which buff up defensive abilities, such as Jax E and Riven E. {{item:3071}} / {{item:3078}} {{item:3161}} These items give bruisers defensive capabilites/health, and AD.. While tank items only give... tank stats... Tanks need to scale more with tank stats if they want to compete and/or bruiser items need to be revisited.
Part of the problem is how many ways there are to negate resistances as most bruisers are stacking mostly health while most tank items have resistances and health...
Schenix (NA)
: I mean, damage needs to scale better than defense. That's... how you deal damage. The issue might just be that tanks don't survive long enough anymore or are useless comparative to bruisers, but they're doing well all around too. Singed, Malfight, Nunu, Sion, Volibear, Shen, etc. are doing quite nicely. Most champions are viable right now, even if it doesn't feel satisfying.
> I mean, damage needs to scale better than defense. That's... how you deal damage. Well you can actually let defense scale better than damage with actives and such like {{item:3193}} (which also decrease damage dealt so it can't be used by damage dealers to increase the amount of damage they deal by staying alive longer) {{item:3053}} also gives up to 75% increase in bonus health (as shield is basically the same as hp) if the entire shield is broken through with damage So giving reactionary or temporary ways for defense to scale better than damage could be fine (especially when they also reduce damage so they can't be abused by damage dealers)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f8W48oJE,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-08T21:03:11.809+0000) > > There is 0 reason why a champion with over 3000 HP and 4 tank items is still somehow dying in less than 4 seconds. Magic Penetration needs to be toned way down, or there needs to be more MR items. I am so sick of going against an almost all AP team and still melting in the late game because I run out of MR items to build MR is hardly the issue. Adaptive helm, gargoyle stoneplate, spirit visage, merc threads are some options. You are melting because 90% of the AD champion roster has %health based damage or true damage in one form or another. You can build all the resistances you want, they won't scale against stacked infinity edges or bortk %hp damage. You'll melt all the same. In fact, MR should always be weaker to armor because mages don't do sustained damage through autoattacks, they do it through skills that have considerable cooldowns. If you can have MR and a mage's full rotation only does 30% of your HP while being on an effective 8+ second cd, why would you bring mages over an ADC who can do more than that all the time just by right clicking you?
Yes it isn't as common but there are powerful sustained magic damage too {{champion:268}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:136}} Or well at least he used to have sustained damage...
: riot guy is right. the immobile stuff is way more consistent, ergo it's more powerful while at the same time being less fun to play. the mobile shit is more fun win or lose. take note of aram power picks.
> the immobile stuff is way more consistent How so? Riot has generally been on a crusade against point and click CC.... and mobile champions generally have an easier time getting in position to land their skill shots or avoid enemy skill shots
Kemious (NA)
: Well options are a big key for it there's also the fact that looked at Mobility allowed Champions still deal the same if not more damage than your standard Less mobile champion Also a lot of them have defensive abilities tied to them that even when you tag them they have some sort of CC or Shield that allows them to still survive an escape. something that should be tied to the left mobile Champions but has been increasingly attached to the mobile . champions. Pyke has his regen , stun and invisibility, yasou has passive, knovk up and wind wall ahri as movement passive and heal it goes on and one Flip it to somebody like Taliyah who's only defensive ability is her E and will fall off her wall if any damage hits her. or syndra who can only knock people away with her e. take a look at kaisai who ult gives her a shiled and has a movement speed ability that makes her invisbile and increases her attack speed afterwards compare it to dravens whose blood rush does a similar thibf lacks the stealth but is also tied to catching those axes. Champions like Vi whos pretty mobile and sejunai who have some mobility but have difficult using it to escape bad situations are less popilar than the ones that have multiple get out of free carda
> Well options are a big key for it there's also the fact that looked at Mobility allowed Champions still deal the same if not more damage than your standard Less mobile champion I mean even if they have the same damage mobility champions are able to more safely forgo building defensive items as they have an easier time avoiding being picked off and avoiding damage and CC and their mobility also allow them to more easily use their damage
: > [{quoted}](name=Xphineas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=py40MZFZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-06T03:36:37.933+0000) > > Can he? Its most likely a bug, then. Though, im pretty sure if a camille begins her E, even if she is rooted if it makes contact with a wall she dashes to it, but shes stuck there for the 1 second (or until the root ends), so it may be intentional That's a common thing for all champion. If you start casting an ability, then it cannot be interrupted. Except channeling skills. Such as Nunu, and Kata ult. Most often example i see this is Lux ult. Once started to cast the Soraka silence will not help. Also i saw this on Tristana jump, and Kayn dash. Once casting started it cannot be interrupted in any way.
> That's a common thing for all champion. If you start casting an ability, then it cannot be interrupted. Except channeling skills. Such as Nunu, and Kata ult. With a huge exception being dashes which can be interrupted by displacement (though other forms of CC doesn't have any effect other than CC'ing the target when they finish their dash)
: most reworks are a miss, and champion mains want them reverted. I still feel that way about Fiora, Malzahar and Akali. (even after Fiora got nerfed because people refused to counterplay or counterbuild her, and akali was no longer able to go full tank and 1v1 the adc, i didn't play akali that could trigger Q mark with her E) But so far, the only ones that were graced by this divine touch (rework reverted) were Riven (reverted while still on PBE), Rengar, Leblank and Kog. So, while waiting to see if your champion gets reverted or not (the odds are not in your favor btw), you could give a try and play his like an AP Talon and see how that works. With a build more focused on wave clear and burst {{item:3802}} -> {{item:3907}} -> {{item:3020}} than the control mage he used to be.
The Kog'maw one was so silly... like yeah breaking attack speed cap and doubling your attack speed is cool and all but how did they not see that it would absolutely break and warp ALL on-hit items around Kog'maw with him being like this? Or maybe they thought that Kog'maw having that cool thing was worth warping all on-hit items around him?
: its honestly really easy: Make aftershock reduce damage taken by 50% maybe 60% late game, for 4 seconds. However, make it not pop to deal damage, and make it reduce all damage done by 30%. This is literally the fucking solution. Tanks become tanks, + tanks dont one shot things anymore. As for Zullar, hes going the completely wrong way because he aint suggesting anyways they can fix that. Dont just say "hehe fix ____ creep" without any back up.
50% is probably enough? 60% could also be fine though I don't want too much of a tanks durability to come from that Keystone 50% damage reduction (DR) means you can take 2 time as much damage (assuming you don't take any true damage) 60% DR means you can take 2.5 times as much damage 75% DR means you can take 4 times as much damage Yes it is only for 4 seconds but as it is right now surviving for 4 seconds seems pretty good {{item:3193}} is also a thing though the problem with it is that the stats it gives is pretty terrible in lane and it is pretty terrible against true damage and % based armor/mr penetration or shred
: Why are there so many "Riot should not focus on toxicity" threads right now??
> One of my friends tried the game out. She quit after a few games because everyone was so fucking toxic. Well that's what happens when all of the toxic people are concentrated among the new players because.... League of Legends is a free to play game so when some gets banned... they just create a new account and might also be even more toxic from being salty about being banned
Wacky9 (NA)
: Glacial makes sense, easy to land Q and W, can itemize a GLP or Protobelt right away. Still sucks and didn't make the champion easier for people to pick up
> Glacial makes sense, easy to land Q and W, can itemize a GLP or Protobelt right away. {{item:3152}} doesn't trigger Glacial Augment as it doesn't slow? {{item:3143}} {{item:3905}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3146}} {{item:3144}} {{item:3153}}{{item:3800}} Are the items which can trigger Glacial Augment (I think that's all of them)
: Tbh. There isn’t really anything you can do. He’s one of those champions that has to fuck up incredibly bad to be punished as is.
I really wish his ultimate had a brief channel or was a dash so that it could possibly be negated with well placed CC or (displacement in the case of a dash) Because there isn't much else you can do as preventing Pyke going in is often rather difficult because of his stealth + MS and his ult bypass shields and resistances (if you are in execute range) though at least healing works
: But you max that only on later rank since she need the dmg to be relevant so it's only 16% and since annie is a mage her base armor is a bit weak and she is forced to pick up {{item:3191}} to make that 16% relevant. Now it's even worst since 8% is nothing compared to other defensive ability such lux W or karma E or orianna E.
8% Damage reduction = 8.6% more damage needed to kill (if all damage is taken while it is active) 16% DR = 19% 20% DR = 25% 40% DR = 66.67% There are some big weaknesses here like the fact that true damage bypasses damage reduction {{summoner:14}} and the fact that it gets less and less effective the less HP you are on (as it basically is an amplifier)... and even if it enables you to survive the burst... it won't do much next time unless you recall or somehow restore your health Though it is potentially somewhat useful for surviving burst later on (with more base stats and probably some from items) at least enough to be able to throw out her combo ideally.... but yes for a burst mage it isn't very useful
GROMMI (NA)
: I'm okay with this. Part of the reason I desire Eternals is, strangely, because they have a price attached to them. It's more unique that way, and I enjoy being more unique. As special cookie as it is, I will take the time to learn off meta picks for the sake of exclusivity. It's very valuable to me, and I prefer if not everyone has Eternals because that makes me enjoy mine more. Strange, but marketing IG
> [{quoted}](name=GROMMI,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=jz00EFib,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-23T19:36:37.657+0000) > > I'm okay with this. Part of the reason I desire Eternals is, strangely, because they have a price attached to them. It's more unique that way, and I enjoy being more unique. As special cookie as it is, I will take the time to learn off meta picks for the sake of exclusivity. It's very valuable to me, and I prefer if not everyone has Eternals because that makes me enjoy mine more. > > Strange, but marketing IG So the more overpriced something is the more you want it? Since that generally makes less people want to buy it... making you more.... unique
NeekoMew (EUW)
: i've accepted friend requests from adc's in the past but they would almost always end up flaming me the 2nd game i play with them because they dont get a giant 5/0 lead in 5 minutes like the last game. That goes for anyone i've gotten friend requests from tbh. So i just dont accept any requests anymore, no matter how nice a person or how good they are, The community just isn't worth it.
> [{quoted}](name=NeekoMew,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XmE860TQ,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-08-22T22:33:44.326+0000) > > i've accepted friend requests from adc's in the past but they would almost always end up flaming me the 2nd game i play with them because they dont get a giant 5/0 lead in 5 minutes like the last game. That goes for anyone i've gotten friend requests from tbh. So i just dont accept any requests anymore, no matter how nice a person or how good they are, The community just isn't worth it. If you Duo then you either get better opponents (Your MMR is inflated for account for the advantage of playing together) or you also face others who are also playing together but they might be using voice chat or just have more experience together which is an advantage Which can make getting leads more difficult
: As in, you require nine other humans to play a game of LoL. That's what you signed up for - and by literally minute one you want to pretend they don't even exist? To enter a game and have it not only be plausible, but viewed as necessary to gag order every other human in the game... and that's not toxic? The people who love the same game as you? The pedestal you have to be placing yourself on - albeit a great defense mechanism - is the darkest root of toxicity. "These horrible beasts, clacking their paws on the keyboard! Preventative measures must be taken." That is outwardly toxic and introspectively petty. Never seen people so willing to lose on their own terms before daring victory if that requires a shred of humanity.
> As in, you require nine other humans to play a game of LoL. RIP Twisted Treeline
Bârd (NA)
: About your response to Item RNG
If they don't want to give players the same amount of items then they have to either massively nerf items (so the one with fewer items aren't as screwed) or nerf it so that champions can only hold one or maybe two items Or a combination of the two
: > [{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=holLJLjA,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-08-11T08:07:22.886+0000) > > You see here is the problem Singed doesn't have any AD scalings like proper tanks like Sion or Poppy so he doesn't work well with the best tank item in the game {{item:3053}} if the entire shield is broken through with damage it basically gives you 75% increase on your bonus health and everyone knows that health is the way to go as resistances are terrible (because of how much true damage, resistance shred/penetration.... and the huge fact that it only works against one damage type) Singed isn't and should never be a tank anyway. looking at most elo's and what the best singed players are building his build is perfectly fine so his AP bruiser build is still his best option. singed has always itemized hp quite heavily so hp being the better tank stat is alright for him. neither should poppy but sadly her tank build is just better than her offtank bruiser builds since her rework.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=holLJLjA,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-08-11T23:41:33.894+0000) > > Singed isn't and should never be a tank anyway. looking at most elo's and what the best singed players are building his build is perfectly fine so his AP bruiser build is still his best option. singed has always itemized hp quite heavily so hp being the better tank stat is alright for him. > > neither should poppy but sadly her tank build is just better than her offtank bruiser builds since her rework. Poppy unless her kit changes in some way is likely to almost always favor tank builds because her damage is so unreliable/delayed and slow so her damage just doesn't have enough impact for it to be worth it for Poppy compared with giving the team more utility in being able to soak more damage and being able to more aggressively deny enemy dashes with W and threaten with R and use E more aggressively (without being blown up by the enemy retaliation)
: The biggest reason I stopped playing Singed/Other "Bulky" champions is because the current state of damage is so overtuned that champions that are supposed to be "hard to kill" just... aren't anymore. Why play a champion that's supposed to be """"Tanky"""" when they blow up just as fast as anyone else in this fuckin Meta You die the same as everyone else! but in return you get to deal less damage! ClapClapClap
> [{quoted}](name=FreezerFlare,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=holLJLjA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-10T19:36:41.301+0000) > > The biggest reason I stopped playing Singed/Other "Bulky" champions is because the current state of damage is so overtuned that champions that are supposed to be "hard to kill" just... aren't anymore. > > Why play a champion that's supposed to be """"Tanky"""" when they blow up just as fast as anyone else in this fuckin Meta > > You die the same as everyone else! but in return you get to deal less damage! ClapClapClap You see here is the problem Singed doesn't have any AD scalings like proper tanks like Sion or Poppy so he doesn't work well with the best tank item in the game {{item:3053}} if the entire shield is broken through with damage it basically gives you 75% increase on your bonus health and everyone knows that health is the way to go as resistances are terrible (because of how much true damage, resistance shred/penetration.... and the huge fact that it only works against one damage type) Yeah I am exaggerating but it isn't entirely untrue either... yeah tanks do have {{item:3193}} which is possibly better for the whole trying to survive at least a little longer though mostly because it is cheaper.... however it is so much worse in lane or when stuck in a 1v1 (as it only gives 40 armor/MR and one of the resistances is likely useless) And in SoloQ well.... you are probably going to want to at least be able to hold your own 1v1 as it doesn't seem that you can rely on your team to help deal with someone trying to split push (so good luck if you are the weaker duelist)
: It depends and I will usually be the last to surrender, partly because I get considerably more enjoyment from a comeback or evenly matched game than from winning a stomp, and I don't even really hate losing if it was a fun match. There also must be some kind of cutoff to what you consider your team losing. A:30/35 vs B:35/30 looks like team A is losing, but that's close enough that I definitely wouldn't surrender. Or A:5/10 vs B:10/5 but team A has more objectives or a stronger lategame team; I don't think that's reasonable to surrender either. For me to surrender, I'll usually need multiple afks on my team or for the enemy to have 4 times or more kills and objectives, or for my teammates to be so extremely rude (like all teammates being exceptionally rude, even by league standards) that I really don't want to win if it means my rude teammates also win. If the match is so uneven that I would surrender, then I don't usually need to surrender anyways because the game will quickly reach its conclusion even if I try my best to stall/comeback, or my teammates will overrule my nay vote by majority anyways.
> There also must be some kind of cutoff to what you consider your team losing. A:30/35 vs B:35/30 looks like team A is losing, but that's close enough that I definitely wouldn't surrender. Or A:5/10 vs B:10/5 but team A has more objectives or a stronger lategame team; I don't think that's reasonable to surrender either. Kills aren't even a particularly good way of knowing if a team is ahead or not I mean if mid lane roams top over and over and over which gives the team a kill lead but leads to the mid laner being even further behind in gold and exp compared with the enemy top laner (because of leaving lane at bad times and losing a lot of CS) then I wouldn't really say that they are ahead Gold and EXP (and dragons) are what matters and minions are a better source of gold and exp than kills however kills are good for denying the enemy Gold and EXP (however how much they lose depend on the minion wave and how quickly the champion can get back to lane)
: i agree the old runes were better, new runes (which arent runes but mastery pages) arent as enjoyable, i would rather have rune pages than mastery pages but riot just removed runes and called masteries runes, i dont know why the current runes are quite problematic, if they were removed the game would become alot more balanced right away the only thing i dont agree with is you saying annie has short range...do you know annies range? her Q has same range as her autos and i think the only people with further autos are like: late game trist and kog with W on and caitlyn i absolutely hate annie, that champ needs RW or deletion asap imo im still waiting for the day riot realizes tanks are good, tanks should exist and be extremely tanky, but like anything tanky you need to make sacrifices, cant wait for them to change the resist scaling so it doesnt fall off as hard but instead starts limiting your damage, theres no reason someone should be able to 100-0 someone if theyve built pure tank and theres no reason a tank should be dying in 3 seconds if theyve built pure tank resistances having diminishing returns is so counter intuitive, its not like u buy a BF sword and it gives u less AD cuz u already have a BF sword not to mention resistances blocking a % of dmg doesnt make alot of sense either, like, if paper provides 1 armor and i have 0 armor and i put the paper on as armor and it blocks 1% of damage then paper could block zero damage, paper could block 100 damage, which doesnt make sense, it has a threshold it can block, its paper
Resistances does not have diminishing returns Assuming 2000 health 0 resistances = 2000 damage needed to kill (0% damage reduction) 100 resistances = 4000 damage (50% damage reduction ---> 2 X 50% = 100%) 200 resistances = 6000 damage (66.666% damage reduction ---> 3 X 33.33% =100%) 300 resistances = 8000 damage (75% damage reduction ----> 4 X 25% = 100%) Yes Resistances does have diminishing return in the same way that HP has in that if you have 200 health and add 200 health that is 100% increase while if you add another 200 health then it is only a 50% increase (400 ---> 600) However because of things like {{item:3135}} {{item:3035}} {{item:3071}} and true damage.... resistances is generally not all that great late game but that has nothing with the way resistances work but rather all the ways there is to negate or bypass resistance
: Dont. Buff. Pyke.
I think something that could help is to make Pyke R always dash... yes it would make him safer (though I don't think he usually want to use his ultimate as an escape because of how powerful it is) But you tie the damage/execute to the dash which means knock ups and such could cancel his ult as there are quite a lot of displacement effects in the game It might even be a bit too harsh because of how powerful his ultimate is but then again giving it more counterplay probably would be good?
Ralanr (NA)
: I usually grab steraks over stoneplate if I’m ahead enough.
The main issues I see with Steraks is cost and the fact that it isn't that effective early on (because lower base AD and lower bonus HP but you could also just look at it as the item scaling with you) Though when stuck in a 1v1 Steraks is much better compared with Stoneplate (and most tanks do need to lane and deal with 1v1 fights unless they are a jungler or support) There is also the slight downside that AD isn't necessarily all that useful some tanks though there is quite a few tanks that have something tied to their AA maybe because Riot want tanks to have something to do while their abilities are on cooldown {{champion:3}} passive {{champion:111}} passive {{champion:516}} passive {{champion:57}} passive {{champion:54}} W {{champion:98}} Q {{champion:33}} Passive {{champion:78}} Passive
Ralanr (NA)
: Thing is, you’re not going to be able to make tank items undesirable to other classes unless it hampers them since all classes enjoy some defense. And hampering isn’t fun (it’s why I rarely ever build stoneplate in the first place). Riot inflates the base stats of tanks because it allows tanks to get more durable than others through the same items. The problem is that durability through resistance (shield or resistances) doesn’t work that well anymore. Healing ends up being the stronger form of survival, especially when scaled with high damage. Few real tanks have built in healing in their kits (Maokai is all I can think of).
> And hampering isn’t fun (it’s why I rarely ever build stoneplate in the first place). I mean Stoneplate is fairly good for it's cost but it has some issues in that resistances aren't valued all that much especially with how powerful % based penetration is and True Damage (and it isn't that slot efficient) However AD scaling tanks can also go with Steraks Gage {{item:3053}} which gives HP rather than resistances and it also have a lower cooldown (60s compared with 90) and it also gives more damage not less (And most tanks have rather high base AD) Yes you do have less control but then again it is usually when you take a lot of damage that you want it to trigger It is meant to be a Juggernaut item but with how much damage there is I don't think the shield is going to decay much so it should be fairly effective for tanks as well and if they ignore the tank well at least they have a little more punch in their AA's (and maybe abilities) the main issue is cost but if you have full build you might as well sell one of the cheaper and less slot efficient tank items for Steraks Gage
: Let’s look at why tanks are currently not of high value
> People will point out that tanks need damage and I don’t disagree. They need to be able to lane and clear jungles, but they also need to have reasonable damage. Well you could maybe make a tank that didn't have much damage if you somehow gave them a way to quickly or safely clear waves.... but that would lead to very little interaction (do the lane opponent have enough damage to kill or threaten the tank and prevent them from clearing the wave the lane opponent win if not they lose or at least can't do much) Pretty much the whole proxy Singed thing where if it took too much time and effort to kill Singed you would get less gold and exp compared with just sitting under tower and farming your own wave (especially when CS didn't affect dying/killing sprees so Singed could be worth like 50 gold if you were able to kill him a lot) So yeah tanks need some damage or else they won't ever interact with their lane opponent (why would they?)
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