Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 7
Hey Meddler, What about Riven's interaction with hail of blades? She can only proc it 3 times despite each of her Qs being an auto reset
: Hey guys! I'm the one who was responsible for Riven's VFX update. I've heard everyone loud and clear, and I'm going to be addressing some feedback within the next few days. While I can't promise things will change drastically, I will be giving her an overall color pass (Yikes, poison is most definitely not part of her kit), toning down the ground circles, making her feel more physical, adding runes to her W, adding more linger and ceremony to her Wind Slash, and adding more of a runic empowerment feel to her passive. I also want to say thank you to everyone for taking the time to give constructive feedback.
Hello there! I'm the one who posted the feedback post on the /r/rivenmains subreddit, if this has been brought to your attention. Either way, happy to see you guys are quick to react to feedback, can't wait to see the adjusted VFX !
: Visual Effect Updates: Kennen, Olaf, Wukong and Riven
Kicking in for some Riven particle feedback ! - I appreciate a lot that you go for some Particle updates on Riven. Her particles are in fact quite dated. - I think the color palette and brightness should be adjusted. Riven's classic skin follows green tons currently on live. However, the suggested particle updated makes her feel like a champion that throws poison everywhere. Try to go for a mix between Emerald shades and some dust / sand colors. - Passive: I like the idea, but it needs a color touch-up. The glow on the base of the sword is a bit too distracting for some reason ? I think a too large area of the blade is being affected by this VFX. I think it should be kept around the base of the sword and the Rune markings, no more. - Q particles : I think those feel good in general, however the circle on the ground for Q1 and Q2 is too much. I think there should be some randomized obfuscating so that not the whole circle shows up, only the arc that Riven visually swipes with the model's animation. - W feels unsatisfying and just too quick overall. It feels like you're just casting a larger Cassiopeia Q on yourself, not like a burst of energy ... I think it's important to have a clear, flashy effect (as I said, color palette needs to be brighter emerald). Try to add in a few rays going outside of Riven, they really convey that feeling of letting out a burst of energy. I think this ability is probably the one I'm least happy with. - E particles: nothing to say, looks good, feels satisfying, and completely up to date with current standards. Could do with a color palette adjustment just like the rest, but it doesn't feel as necessary for this one. - R1 : okay this is gonna be a bit long. An old post about Riven's development explained how initially it was intended for her sword to *gradually* reforge from the base during the cast time. I was hoping a particle update would actually bring it. In the post, the reason they say it was scrapped is because 0.25 cast time is too short. As a custom-skin maker and Riven player, I can say that 0.25s is clearly enough for the sword to (rapidly) scroll from the base to the tip and reappear like that, instead of what we have. - R2 : Wind Slash is nice, a bit bland (could do with extra effects like some dust trails or something). A trail like on Dragonblade Riven (the smoke trails look really good) with dusty colors could be cool I guess. - A side note here: particles are no longer different between no R and R ???? Riven's Q and W have noticeably different particles on live to accentuate the hype of the moment, it feels great gameplay wise and reminds us that Q and W hitboxes are larger during R. I feel like the particles during that moment could do with quite some extra oomph. - Why remove the blood from Auto attacks and Q hit ? I can understand for Q but I think it's an important reason that makes autos satisfying. Yasuo gets blood on his autos, why not Riven ? (I know it makes it annoying to censor it for Chinese servers, but cmon). The current on-hit particle makes it feel like I'm playing Twitch and not Riven. OVERALL CONCLUSIONS - Particles are great! In my opinion only a couple tweaks are needed 1. Move color palette to this yellowish-green to a slightly more Emerald green alongside with occasional dusty / sandy accents. 2. Q and W particles feel like a cloud of poison. VFX are too dark, need to feel flashier, especially W. Q circles on the ground don't need to be represented in their entirety, especially because the hitbox isn't a full circle (unless I'm mistaken about my main monkaS) 3. E is great, only would bennefit from 1. 4. R is fine, could do with improvements but is fine as is. Improvements would significantly improve satisfaction though (dust trail behind wind slash and "scrolling" sword reforging animation). Cheers EDIT: After thinking about it, I think there's a choice to be made between 2 color schemes. 1. Mostly Emerald green with Sand/Dust accents to emphasize satisfaction 2. Mostly Sand/Dust colors with occasional Emerald green accents to highlight the use of "rune magic" or w/e it's called.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 27
What are your current thoughts on the Last Whisper items? You mentioned in a previous Gameplay Thoughts post that they appeared to be slightly underperforming compared to expectations, and that it might be a combination of it being too weak and also time for adaption being needed. Now that some time has passed, is it something that's being looked at?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 25
What are your current thoughts on the Last Whisper items? You mentioned in a previous Gameplay Thoughts post that they appeared to be slightly underperforming compared to expectations, and that it might be a combination of it being too weak and also time for adaption being needed. Now that some time has passed, is it something that's being looked at?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 18
What are your current thoughts on the Last Whisper items? You mentioned in a previous Gameplay Thoughts post that they appeared to be slightly underperforming compared to expectations, and that it might be a combination of it being too weak and also time for adaption being needed. Now that some time has passed, is it something that's being looked at?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 13
What are your current thoughts on the Last Whisper items? You mentioned in a previous Gameplay Thoughts post that they appeared to be slightly underperforming compared to expectations, and that it might be a combination of it being too weak and also time for adaption being needed. Now that some time has passed, is it something that's being looked at?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 11
What are your current thoughts on the Last Whisper items? You mentioned in a previous Gameplay Thoughts post that they appeared to be slightly underperforming compared to expectations, and that it might be a combination of it being too weak and also time for adaption being needed. Now that some time has passed, is it something that's being looked at?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 4
What are your current thoughts on the {{item:3035}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3036}} items? You mentioned in a previous Gameplay Thoughts post that they appeared to be slightly underperforming compared to expectations, and that it might be a combination of it being too weak and also time for adaption being needed. Now that some time has passed, is it something that's being looked at?
: Hi Meddler!! The current Riven buffs in the pbe are the right direction but don,t you think a bit base damage will be nice? Like 5 damage in her q or in her w.
Let's not be too greedy, the current buff is reasonable and doesn't specifically need to go further.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
Hello Meddler ! I wanted to share feedback on the Riven buff that has hit PBE yesterday. I don't know if today's update will have it different. This is at the exact opposite of what Riven needs, but I kind of expected that style of semi placebo buff. The buff in itself doesn't do anything to her issues, which is **laning phase**. The buff in rank 2 will not be felt, and the buff in rank 3 will be felt but is not necessary, and very few games last long enough to get level 16 anyway. Riven's laning power had gone down over the years ever since the end of season 5, with her early AD numbers going down and down and down. After season 5, having 85-90 AD at level one required very cheesy and frankly non optimal rune pages. Nowadays, she can get 84 I think with the highest AD runes and longsword start, but that's at the cost of all defenses. In the past, Riven was able to have high AD while having some defenses as well. The Runes Reforged compensation wasn't enough for Riven. She didn't get her 10% cdr runes compensated, assuming that Transcendance would make up for it, but it really doesn't. Riven needs cdr before 10 minutes. Her ultimate CD was nerfed at early ranks because it was really low coupled with rune CDR. Now, we are left with an extra-long ult cooldown and no CDR runes for early game ... I don't want to make this extra long but Riven doesn't need more mid/late, she needs early game power, which she badly lacks. And early game power is the bread and butter of all AD casters just because of how they itemize (they don't use hyperscaling stats like crit, AP, or attack speed)
19970127 (EUW)
: Hi Meddler, independent of Rivens balance I wanted to bring up that there is a bug with her W and both R casts that prevent you from input buffering any auto attacks. I believe this happens because her cast times used to be 0.5s instead of 0.25s now. If you rightclick during their cast times to input buffer she just stands around awkwardly and eventually autos after a while. To get around this you currently have to spamclick on the target so that you input the auto after the cast time is over. Another thing that bothers me is that when Dawnbringer Riven was released the way her fast combo works got changed. You officially integrated it in her kit instead of it being a bug. The combo is basically inputing a movement command during Broken Wings and then autoing a target with correct timing after. This would shave of a bit of the Q animation to essentially increase the DPS of your AA Q AA Q AA Q AA combo. With that change it is now easier to perform on higher ping but also around 15% slower for everyone else. I wanted to know if increasing the cancel speed could be a way to buff her since it rewards players that took the time to master the combo. When her Q animation cancel got slowed down it also slowed down trading patterns since Rivens used to Q -> move W to get in range for a quick stun and equally imortant you cannot Q3 -> move R2 anymore to guarantee your ultimate hits during the knock up.
The bug is only in W in my experience. This is because on the patch of Riven's release, there was a hotfix on September 20th 2011, where a lot of things were changed including cast times. Her W and R cast times were initially 0.5s and were reduced to 0.25s. However I believe some ability script wasn't modified accordingly and some mechanics still work as if the cast times were 0.5s. The fast combo change is right, the Q locktime before auto attacking was increased from 0.25s (at minimum, could vary based on ping and server rng) to 0.4s. While I can understand removing the rng and ping factor is important, why did it have to suffer such a large "nerf" ? I think having it to 0.3 or even 0.25 again, but for everyone, would be great.
Meddler (NA)
: Some current thoughts on Riven: * Her performance has been noticeably weaker than previous for around half a dozen patches. * That's more true at average MMR than high MMR though, where she's not as much weaker. * We'd expected Spear of Shojin to be a substantial buff to her. Given that's been delayed (likely back in preseason) we'll want to give her a look during the next patch cycle or two as a possible buff candidate.
Someone mentioned the /r/rivenmains subreddit where some balance discussion has been happening in the last few days. Opinions on the matter are very varied, with people agreeing and disagreeing on many topics. [Here's my personal take on the matter.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/8qukr5/community_buff_suggestions_and_discussion/?st=jigcg8p0&sh=c1f1b86b)
Weynon (EUW)
: Although I understand the lack of communication problem and also the fact that it might be a step back, I want to know something : if they do remove the possibility to change the voices or add community made skins, why would it be such a big deal ? It might just be a misinterpretation from my side, but your phrasing gets me thinking that they **owe** you the right to implement 3rd-party skins when they really don't. As you said, they were tolerated, not supported, which means that if they don't want it anymore, because of security or anything else, they'll remove it. All things set aside, I hope that they'll let these things stay in place, I understand how much work you creators put into it and it would be sad to lose it.
> [{quoted}](name=Weynon,realm=EUW,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=sB4ucqXc,comment-id=000f0001,timestamp=2018-06-14T12:28:49.002+0000) > > Although I understand the lack of communication problem and also the fact that it might be a step back, I want to know something : if they do remove the possibility to change the voices or add community made skins, why would it be such a big deal ? It might just be a misinterpretation from my side, but your phrasing gets me thinking that they **owe** you the right to implement 3rd-party skins when they really don't. As you said, they were tolerated, not supported, which means that if they don't want it anymore, because of security or anything else, they'll remove it. > > All things set aside, I hope that they'll let these things stay in place, I understand how much work you creators put into it and it would be sad to lose it. I don't think they owe use that right, that tolerance. However, if they do want to make changes that they absolutely know will affect custom skins in the way I said, Riot should be making a change to their stance towards it. Even in this thread, Rioters referenced that stance of "tolerance". If Riot doesn't want us to make custom skins anymore, fine, it's their game they decided whatever they want. But at least update your stance on the matter.
: Game client anti-cheat changes going live
I will be asking something on behalf of Custom Skin community. I'll preface this by saying that these changes will not stop what you call "skin porting", or basically making players use paid Riot skins instead of the base skin, for free. The custom skins isn't about that though. The custom skin community I am talking about is about creations, bringing back old textures and visuals, making new content. The modding and custom skin community is in my eyes an important part of the spaces where players can express and develop their creativity and love for the game. Ever since the change of the champion's skin format to the "WAD" system, we have had to break the rules. The game checks the WAD files when it starts up a game, and if Riot's signature isn't on them, it will simply close and say an error happened, then it will repair your game. Therefore, we came up with a way to patch the game's exe so that it doesn't check for the WAD signature, lettins us use custom WAD and re-enable custom skins. This is fine except it's already against the rules to do anything on the .exe. We don't want to break the rules, but it was the only way for custom skins to continue existing. With the encryption changes, we most likely will not be able to patch the .exe in that fashion, and even if we figure out a new way to do, players who do it might get flagged for cheating and receive punishments for essentially no reasons (as customs skins were always "use at your own risk but we tolerate it"). On behalf of the custom skin community, I seriously want a dialogue to be opened between us, creators, and Riot. We just want to be able to exist while staying in compliance in the rules. I think it is about time that actual discussion is started between us and Riot so that players can still have fun and express themselves in the space of modding and custom skins. We already have started thinking about some solutions, and some changes are quite easy and costless to implement while not harming any of the security / anti cheat purposes that you are seeking. In hope for an answer, Sincerely yours, Charles "Hi I am me", EUW
: Riven has been under-performing for the past 3 patches struggling at a 48% winrate
Ever since patch 5.22 it had been going downhill. Just check the patch notes, worst patch ever. Riven's itemization is gimicky in my opinion, she isn't a laning phase character anymore. I remember reading somewhere that Riven doesn't hard win any matchup, and I get behind that. Back in the day (season 5, maybe season 6 ish at the latest) Riven was most often acting as a burst character, with bruiserish aspects as secondary. Essentially a damage focused, bursty melee bruiser. Well, I say bruiser because she built some defense in the items. Nowadays, she is much more of a bruiser that goes for extended fights. And a champion that primarily builds damage, goes for long fights, and doesn't have much defense usually fails. There's a reason Jax isn't build full damage every game, because it just doesn't fit the "extended fight" one People will say I rant a lot about this, because I have complained about Last Whisper before, but the changes to LW in the marksman update marks a big milestone for a lot of AD characters and casters. I remember LL Stylish mentioning that Zed is only the shadow of himself (no pun intended), in the past he had a lot of possibilities but nowadays it's just the same thing every game. Who builds Last Whisper nowadays ? The only circumstance building it isn't bad is to complete Mortal Reminder. Who builds Ravenous Hydra consistently nowadays apart from niche champions? It used to be way more of a staple. Before 5.22, old LW and Brutalizer were all the armor pen assassins needed. Those and maybe some armor pen runes allowed them to get all the armor penetration required, and so could itemize with more diverse, non penetration items. Scimitar, BT, Ravenous Hydra, sometimes IE (youmuu's gave crit), Blade or the Ruined King ... You name it. Every AD assassin going the same 3 first items every game nowadays (youmuu's, dusk, cleaver) ... Where is the diversity? Of course there had a price to be paid, if an AD assassin went with armor penetration runes, they essentially gave up a significant amount of laning phase kill pressure ; if they were a jungler (Rengar, Kha ...) they gave up clear speed / healthiness in the clear. The changes to the armor penetration ecosystem over the years (change of Last Whisper with induced changes to Maw and Youmuu's, then introduction of Duskblade, more changes in the assassin update ...) brought AD casters and assassins in the place they are today. The current state of the game makes it so that, to get a significant amount of armor penetration, you have to commit in 2-3 items a minima, while it is very easy to get some armor to counter it for all kinds of targets: tanks get tank items with lots of armor, carries can get Zhonya's, Tabi, GA. The recent nerf to Tabi did A LOT of good to AD assassins and casters (even though it's not enough), and that's only 10 armor going away. That goes to show how sensitive this group of champions is to their target's armor and their ability to ignore it. The problem right now is that there are too many items that offer flat armor penetration. That means that if the system is changed so that AD casters/assassins only need 1 or 2 cheap items to have a significantly high amount of penetration, they can always keep on stacking other penetration items and have stupid burst. The game needs a middle ground where assassins get a fairly good amount of penetration quite early on in their item build, but can't stack penetration ever more so that the defensive options they might want open up. Now is there a solution to this ? An idea I just had while writing this would be to orient the domination tree (oriented towards helping burst champions) towards adaptive penetration in some way, or rework some rune slots into things that interact with penetration in different ways than sudden impact does. I don't know, Domination first row has only 2 runes so there's a gap to be filled ... Another idea I had comes back from when Lethality was introduced. Before actually publishing the details of how lethality functions, I made a guess saying that flat armor penetration would be replaced by moderate amount of % total penetration. The problem with flat pen is that it was too feast or famine: either you got penetration before the enemy natural armor scaled enough and so it was super good, or you got it too late because you were behind and it was a bit underwhelming. Having a moderate amount (between 10 and 15%) of total armor penetration on each penetration item would have solved that issue (because by definition it scales with the target's armor) AND would also solve the issue AD Assassins / Casters were going through ever since the changes to LW in marksman update. Wow that's a lot of text, didn't expect to write that much. Well if you read it all, thanks for your attention :)

Charles Mid

Level 193 (EUW)
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