Audhulma (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Rekka no Ken,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8IBtZdjr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-06T17:21:03.873+0000) > > It's not whining when Shen is the oldest champion without a new skin. Sorry. IIRC Shen is in line for _another_ update, so they'll probably wait til that rolls out, which is the exact same thing they did to Swain.
> [{quoted}](name=Audhulma,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8IBtZdjr,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-06T17:22:45.083+0000) > > IIRC Shen is in line for _another_ update, so they'll probably wait til that rolls out, which is the exact same thing they did to Swain. What's your source on this?
: SO ABOUT DRAGON MASTER SWAIN
{{champion:98}} wut?!?
Rioter Comments
: ROADMAP
God its going to take forever till they get back to redoing Shen after they said they were unsatisfied with his thematic... I really cant wait a set amount of years.
: Why I am quitting Mordekaiser
: In Regards to the Champion Roadmap next Week; Here are the VGU's I'm most excited for
I cant wait for the Shen {{champion:98}} re-design. I feel like it might take some time but after what they mentioned about not being happy with the results and identity after his re-work im sure that a second shot at Shen will really bring out his thematics into an interesting and engaging design. Seriously just hope I dont have to wait another year or two ><
: Kwon' Za, The Entity of the Void
**kwanzaa** {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
: Can we get another stickied thread or and update on the fps problems?
Broporo (NA)
: The devs definitely do their best to deliver updates when they know for sure what's going on, and at this point, it seems like it just hasn't been figured out yet is all. When we poros ask to check off certain steps, that's just the usual troubleshooting process. It'd be rather silly to assume you've done everything only to find out step 1 or 2 of the usual process would have fixed everything, assumptions are bad in general (I think we know the phrase here xD) This is also why we sometimes stress the need to reach out to our techs in a ticket. We poros don't have all the tech knowledge they do about fps issues, and if you never contact them you're doing yourself a disservice! Even if they don't immediately wave a magic tech wand and fix everything, working through some steps with you can be incredibly helpful to finally getting to the bottom of things.
Really appreciate the response and thankyou for highlighting some things that might help fix the issues with some users. Personally I have tried each of these steps but no luck so far. I fully support the idea of submitting a ticket and hope that it does get fixed soon.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Shèn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9acscMGt,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-12-06T16:28:05.743+0000) > > other crazy things to build in combination would be > Stattik Shiv/Phantom Dancer + Botrk > Frozen Mallet + Black Cleaver/Titanic > Hextech Gunblade + Wits End > > and yea that Trinity Force + Steraks Gage is very strong! > > I wanna try Rylais + Liandries vs an armor stacked team. > > Old Shen had single target ranged Q so the Rylais + Liandries synergy was really great and I kind of miss that. Old Shen was awesome. Loved how his passive scaled with AS and his W decreased his passive as well. Lightning Shen was my thing haha. I haven't tried the other combos yet that you mentioned.
Yes! I loved how you could build old Shen with so much flexibility and I especially loved the Stattik lightning builds too ><
: > [{quoted}](name=Shèn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9acscMGt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-04T15:55:00.662+0000) > > The rework was definitely confusing > I mean > > spirit sword? > > where the heck did that come from. > > As if tank ninja wasn&#x27;t different enough. > > But yea Shen is a mix between Tank and Fighter Agreed, however I find him more effective when he's built more of a fighter than tank. Hell, Steraks Gage is fantastic on him. I've done some experimenting with builds and if you built like a juggernaut he's extremely strong. Or even combining triforce and Titanic Hydra or Hydra and botrk.
other crazy things to build in combination would be Stattik Shiv/Phantom Dancer + Botrk Frozen Mallet + Black Cleaver/Titanic Hextech Gunblade + Wits End and yea that Trinity Force + Steraks Gage is very strong! I wanna try Rylais + Liandries vs an armor stacked team. Old Shen had single target ranged Q so the Rylais + Liandries synergy was really great and I kind of miss that.
Abibyama (EUW)
: Is it me, Or does Shen’s kit screams “Fighter” than a “Tank”?
The rework was definitely confusing I mean spirit sword? where the heck did that come from. As if tank ninja wasn't different enough. But yea Shen is a mix between Tank and Fighter
: Zed's New Lore
"Zed is clearly the better, more talented student" {{champion:98}} Hey! watch it...
dominusx (EUNE)
: Oh you outplayed your laner top?
{{champion:98}} win lane ult bot win game not a problem! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: RIOT are just so good at making characters thematically.
I love how Jhin tied in with {{champion:98}} and {{champion:238}} I feel like this could have really benefited the Kinkou order back story but it did nothing to really push it in a memorable direction All we gained was a rework Shen with a confusing new spirit power and an ambiguous hint at the discord between zed and shen I really hope Riot can find time to fill this out a bit more Maybe introduce more members or Shens Kinkou order so that Akali and Kennen also get tied in
: @CertainlyT, Mordekaiser's Juggernaut Rework in retrospect
Now do one of these about Shen {{champion:98}} lol
FireDrizzle (EUNE)
: You know who needs a rework more than Ryze?
{{champion:98}} needs a re-rework
: Shen changes?
As you can tell from my name I play Shen quite often I've been maining Shen since season 3 after the TPA win and he is one of my absolute favourite champs. I have to say that the rework took away allot of things that I loved as a Shen player: Ranged attack Sustain On demand shield The current state that shen is in right now is upsetting to me as he is a champ I really love but I feel as tho the rework left him in such a dire situation that it is almost unfun to play him anymore The biggest problem I find is his Q and the spirit sword mechanic. It just doesn't work well thematically or practically having a champion that requires so much situational concentration when the main role you play is one of a reactive tank becomes a nightmare. I feel like this could be helped if the spirit sword didn't exist in its current state! there are just so many things with Shen that frustrate me as a player that I wish I could change but I think the whole spirit sword mechanic is probably the biggest thing. If i could change him I would do so like this: Remove spirit sword Have W always self summon (maybe create drawback by having it root Shen during animation) ^I would actually love to play around with this ability and have it do some unique damage mitigation or negation^ Possibly replace Q with some kind of ranged attack like a ranged spirit slash (to keep with lore) that marks a target and allows Shen's next 3 attacks to deal % damage based on his or their hp Any change would be to make Shen's skills reactive I don't think it works well for him to have defensive and aggressive skills that take too much thought to set up Shielding an ally (with spirits refuge) at a clutch moment should be reactive, it shouldn't depend on where you are and then where your spirit sword is and then also where the ally is; that's too complex. onto of that you also need to factor in the travel time of pressing Q and then W. anyway I feel like after the effort put into the rework there is probably not going to be any big further changes anytime soon (also Shen is a ninja so he goes unnoticed easily :P) Hopefully we will see some change in the future tho, I think its much needed to keep a champ like this relevant and enjoyable in the current meta. {{champion:98}}
: Copied from MachinimaRealm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkZev87Rr1A
@op give credit if not original I was also remembering this episode when i saw this post
Extasios (NA)
: The 'KKK' clan tag IS offensive.
To anyone saying its _just 3 letters_ and everyone else unfamiliar with the correct moral response to something like this then please read: You cannot justify it so simply as _just 3 letters_ because then you are refusing to acknowledge the painful historic value those letters hold. Everything you or I say needs to have context for it to have meaning, for example: Egg salad bowl with tags on navigation. Do those words individually make sense to you? Yes. Does this sentence hold meaning? No. By using those words as a clan tag in a video game you are putting yourself in the context of allegiance to such a cause or view. Denying context is ignorance and stupidity. If you are ignorantly refusing to give the respect that the words KKK (or similar) hold then you do not deserve a place in civilised society. This isn't a feeling that I have personally it is actually a lawful requirement that people have to hold in regards the consideration of others in their conduct. This is something punishable in many places and countries. Freedom is a great thing. But if you value freedom you must also consider the restrictions that this freedom puts on others. It is a human moral responsibility which we all carry. **Balance in Everything** {{champion:98}}
Found4u (NA)
: What do you call Deep Terror Nami's Mom?
: http://lol.esportspedia.com/w/images/thumb/3/30/Quinn_concept_1.png/677px-Quinn_concept_1.png http://lol.esportspedia.com/w/images/thumb/0/0e/Quinn_concept_2.png/606px-Quinn_concept_2.png http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/File:Quinn_concept_3.png The earliest versions of Quinn had pictured her to be a melee assassin. Me personally? I would have preferred if Quinn was melee from the start. As let me honest for a moment here: Quinn (ranged-half) always felt wonky to utilize in a match. Valor (melee-half) on the other hand felt more natural to play as. Also from what I read during the Quinn reworks, a lot of folks liked the Valor half more so than the Quinn half. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion as I would admit that felt more fun than playing as a ranged carry with a very short range on her AAs.
I love that sword look. Since Riot loves their 3 hit passive im just imagining a melee fighter with a crossbow weapon. first two hits are with her sword and the third she shoots her crossbow. Kind like poppy's ranged shield toss even tho she's melee.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shèn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6QnJjtTk,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2016-04-18T17:36:07.665+0000) > > Quinn is such a strange champion because she wasnt concieved during the non-meta era during season 1 where roles weren&#x27;t as defined, we got champions like Urgot {{champion:6}} who didnt feel out of place because there was no specific place for those champions as we have today (ADC &amp; Supp bot Mage/Assasin mid and Bruiser/Tank top didnt really exist). > She was a late entry in the grand scheme of things which confuses me so much as to why her kit was never really granted a definitive role direction. > I actually played her allot pre-rework and loved her ulti, although I felt it didnt really have a definitive place except for cheese assasinations. > I hope she gets some focus and redirection she was a strange champion because she was conceived as a melee ad assassin. they didnt even change her lore to fit a marksman/scout. if you know what she originally was, you can see the remnants of her initial design all over her lore and kit. her background as a street orphan (typical rogue/assassin backstory), the focus on her rivalry with talon, and most important of all the remarks of how employing someone like quinn is something very unusual for demacia. (which i found very weird back when she was released, because there is nothing dishonorable about employing a scout/ranger).
hella informative thankyou! would love to have seen her as a melee assassin now just thinking about what that could have been. I can imagine her having a ranged attack with her crossbow sorta like gangplanks and then melee fighter attacks like a street brawler lee sin
Saixos (EUW)
: Riot views both Mordekaiser and Skarner as failed reworks.
Quinn is such a strange champion because she wasnt concieved during the non-meta era during season 1 where roles weren't as defined, we got champions like Urgot {{champion:6}} who didnt feel out of place because there was no specific place for those champions as we have today (ADC & Supp bot Mage/Assasin mid and Bruiser/Tank top didnt really exist). She was a late entry in the grand scheme of things which confuses me so much as to why her kit was never really granted a definitive role direction. I actually played her allot pre-rework and loved her ulti, although I felt it didnt really have a definitive place except for cheese assasinations. I hope she gets some focus and redirection
: Let's talk about Shen's ultimate.
I agree with removing AP scalings. The only non troll items usually built in game to provide a bit of AP was triforce...which now has it removed. Also since Q is no longer a point and click ranged ability you have no reason to build any AP as doing so means you have to be in melee range and building AP will leave you way to squishy to survive before you do any damage. ~~_What if Stand United also provided the target with Shens MR & Armor or atleast a %?_~~ nvm just realised someone said the exact same thing haha
Meddler (NA)
: At the moment we don't have any plans to work on Shen because we believe we'd get bigger overall improvements to the game by putting that time into other champions in need (e.g. the Yorick rework that will be the next full update after Taric). It doesn't feel great leaving an update with some clear thematic issues like that, but going back to Shen would have to come at the expense of work on another champion so we had to make a priority call. I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say we'd never make changes to Shen. It's entirely possible there's a point in which it does make sense to do further art impacting work on him. I don't believe that will be any time soon though, so wanted to be open about that. I also wanted to acknowledge that we weren't completely happy with Shen either, and felt there was a good reminder for us about theme in champion updates from his rework.
Thanks for the reply this clears up a lot for me and hopefully others. I really appreciate the work you guys put into these champions and the community feedback you provide. Look forward to seeing what's in store for the future with Shen.
: Zed's open shirt **swoons**
hey now... balance in all things *wink nudge look at me
: Debonair Shen, Jhin and Zed
......YES http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m37go7mT0Z1r9rjs4.gif
: > [{quoted}](name=Austin Covello,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K2fEsVGX,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-04-16T14:40:50.557+0000) > > Why don&#x27;t they just turn the sprite into a ninja star? Or they could have just kept him like he was... where even Pros would play him in Top, Jungle and Support while maintaining a healthy but not over-bearing Win Rate and also not being a 100% Pick/Ban. He is Versatile in Role, Versatile in Type and was Versatile in Build. He was insanely balanced due to this, in a Game where we were begging for more Variety and Options (which Shen provided)... and they pigeon hole him into what ever he is now.
Yea the versatility was what i loved about him. We already have anti adc champs so im not sure why Shen was given his spirit refuge to block aa's... seems like they pigeonholed him into another anti carry role
: It might just be me, but I feel Shen's thematic actually became better post-update. Personal opinion here, please don't shut me down for this. At least, he has a more defined thematic now, some sort of mix between The Last Airbender's Avatar (being a mediator for our world and the spirit world) and a Witcher (being a wholly impartial monster hunter). I definitely prefer his new gameplay, that can be said. As effective as throwing Q's and slowly draining the enemy's health bar was, it was really, really boring. I agree there's room for Shen to grow and definitely a better way this concept can be taken, but I for one really like his Spirit Blade/Steel Blade dynamic, though I wish it was better utilized. EDIT: You're also on EUW? I'd love to play with you some time, or just chat if you're willing.
Thats a fair and valid opinion and yea I do love that idea of a spirit and steel blade. I think its just the way the kit is at the moment I dont enjoy playing it as Shen, maybe as someone else...lol add me anytime would love to play :D
Slythion (NA)
: I love blink abilities like Shaco Q and Zed/Leblanc W. I feel like they had a lot to the skill cap of a champ, along with counterplay options
the amount of shaco and LB jukes are crazy esp shaco, that Q duration plus a blink is insane~
Rioter Comments
: I know it doesnt make sense to leave it like it is, but Meddler said they would leave it as is, and take that screw-up as a lesson for further reworks... In other words, they won't retouch Shen for a while. You're a Shen main? whoa I would never have guessed.
I know crazy :P probably will take a long time to get round to it :( im really hoping for confirmation on if thats going to be the case or not. I just worry its going to put shen in an 'aatrox' state where he kinda fades out of topic not because hes underpowered or broken but because no one cares haha...
: I'm fine with the spirit sword if they fixed the damn hitbox. It's smaller than Nidalee's spears and doesn't even proc empowered autos if you pull it while an opponent is standing square on top of it.
yea thats an issue also I wonder if it would be better to move the missile speed up? its such a pain to press Q and wait for you sword to make a play, makes shen really readable
: He's still cool, but I agree entirely :P (Also, that taunt misses so easily now!)
Thanks for the input :> its crazy to me that so many people feel the same way
: He said that in that same article that he they wouldn't be willing to spend resources on re-reworking the spirit blade into something that fit his theme a little better. They take Shen as a lesson in the departement of reworks.
Yup, thats why I posed the question if it will ever be addressed. I can understand they put effort into the rework but since it wasnt a success it doesn't make sense to me that they would leave it at that. Im hoping it was just a misunderstanding in wording otherwise allot of us Shen mains are kinda screwed
  Rioter Comments
: They destroyed what Shen was, that was their goal... Only reverting to the old Shen would make me smile.
I'm hearing allot of replies like this. I feel like for whatever reason allot of us Shen players arent vocal enough to get Riot to notice so I'm trying to do my best in making posts that get some attention x.x I can only imagine if the same thing happened to Zed then people would go CRAZY like remember the outcry on his minor cd changes recently...its insane
Rioter Comments
Forizen (NA)
: @Meddler Is Aatrox ever going to get some love?
aatrox is so overlooked its a real shame I hope he gets some well deserved attention
agbudar (NA)
: basically yea.
I think thats what the kit essentially needs. But again that goes even further away from what Shen is. Would love to see that on a new champion tho :)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shèn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGaRlLjG,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-14T20:29:54.656+0000) > > Shen mains aren&amp;#039;t the type of players to hit the boards in uproar about these issues and demand changes... I really doubt that, considering how much Zed hate there is. :^)
lol i suppose most of that hate is coming from mages :P
agbudar (NA)
: he needs better controll with his spirit blade. the idea is great just the execution is terrible. also even with better control he won't be OP also he could use better base stats he is quite low for a tank.
I like the idea but im not sure Shens the right champion for something like a spirit blade. I mean pre-rework he had nothing like that. Now his kit is focused around it (aswell as his lore) By control do you mean something like Orianna ball commands?
Rioter Comments
: @Meddler At this point in time can we consider the possibility of reverting the Shen rework?
riot employees downvoting? lmao you raise allot of good points. I hope shen doesnt get to the point that ryze/morde have gotten to where soo many changes leave the identity of a champion confused. He really needs a change, soo many of us shen supporters have been calling out for it. Hope riot listens
: @Meddler Just revert Shen, he wasn't unbalanced or unhealthy. Just like any other champion a good Shen could lock you down and a bad Shen would struggle.
A small scale visual upgrade would have been better. I agree that his kit should have remained similar to what it was but possibly with different interactions and/or effects.
: they are just saying thematicaly a floating sword for a ninja isn't working but that there are others that need more work but it will be a lesson for them if any champ deserves a new rework it would be cass or morde in my opinion i even played shen in his former form and now i have played a match with him its not all that bad only his sustain is tradet out for raw damage and the thing that hurt me the most was the Q farm is gone (i have a small idea tho if shen could walk over his sword and then throw it with Q then you would be able to reposition it and farm from afar and when you don't hold it and press Q it stays the same so Q pull it to you Q throw it away)
I like the sound of that. His ranged harass and sustain were obviously important parts of his kit that I hear allot of old shen players feeling like they wanted to remain. Picking up the sword and throwing it sounds like a great way to reposition the ability. Right now the whole moving swords without touching them sounds like an idea they should have kept for the Irelia rework they hinted about a while ago, not sure why this idea was given to Shen at all.
Rioter Comments
: Melledoneus has his Shenpai
{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
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Dªy

Level 278 (EUW)
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