: Eh, well there's a problem, and that's obvious. I just hope that it'll get fixed, either by riot or just naturally. I honestly think the best way to fix it is to make mmr the main rank indicator, with the actual divisions signifying the mmr you have. I'm sure there's problems with this as well, mainly the way that players will feel about the more active fluctuation of their rank. Also, there's the possibility of reworking the system so that it ranks you off of individual success, but that would be bad as it could make people think less about their team (which is already a problem in low elo). I kinda got enlightened while writing this post; the entire controversy over this is about people feeling like they deserve more, and want to keep the feel-good of winning. Hell, the only way people would be happy was if they had a 100% winrate. This is just one of those things where you just gotta suck it up and keep climbing.
>I kinda got enlightened while writing this post; the entire controversy over this is about people feeling like they deserve more, and want to keep the feel-good of winning. Hell, the only way people would be happy was if they had a 100% winrate. This is just one of those things where you just gotta suck it up and keep climbing. you found exactly what makes this such a controvers discussed issue. People think of the ranks, in a term of being below 50% of player base should make win les than 50% being silver /about 50% of player base) should grant you 50/50 Win Los and being obove that should print out more wins. But as you know, this is not the case. This would be the case in a system without ranks and sometimes I believe this would be a consideration worth trying in an extra Q. Just have people fight it out with out restrictions. Some people actually like stomping and some actually like being stomp and seeing where they get exploited to improve. I am not sure if the system really is broken tbh, I believe you when you report your experience, but as I said mine so so different atm. And I know the chaotic nature of the Q at season start. And Iam absolutely with you, to get rid of this dispatched LP/Rank system. It ultimately servers no purpose but to confuse players that don't dive into the deep intricacies of the system. People believe the arbitrary shown MMR stats on all the stat sites. And they get frustrated why this does not fit with their experience, they get confused when their rank is not matching their MMR ands therefore seem to get to strong or weak enemies. eventhough it is their level. There is so much problematic stuff with the current system. It should just be abolished when it comes to my opinion.
: Not to short-sell your good explanation, but the problem is that higher ranked players and lower ranked players get put into games they really shouldn't be in. The question isn't necessarily "why did I lose", it's more of "why are gold players in a bronze game?", or "why are iron players in my silver promos?". This is beyond an increase in mmr, and the main issue people complain about. I guess when i said "more experienced players", I wasn't completely clear. Yes, as you **rank up** you should face more difficult people in nearly the **same rank** as you. But gold players should face gold players, silver should face silver, etc. And before you start pointing out the things in your post (I did read it), the obvious differences in skill whenever said gold players are in the bronze game is proof that it's not just mmr. If they really were so bad that they can't compete with gold anymore, then why are they stomping in bronze? P.S: I know there are always outliers, but if someone is really so bad that they can't continue competing with gold, they shouldn't be in gold anymore.
I like you, you actually tried to comprehend. Thats more than most people I have this discussion with. :-) Disclaimer: It might be that there is a bug, that needs fixing. Only Riot knows. There are several reason why what you describe here might happen. >And before you start pointing out the things in your post (I did read it), the obvious differences in skill whenever said gold players are in the bronze game is proof that it's not just mmr. If they really were so bad that they can't compete with gold anymore, then why are they stomping in bronze? This might still be due to the season restart. With the changes Riot made there have been a few bugs, they actually spoke about the. This lead to players being ranked incorrectly. Even though it appears as if it was manly a bug in the representative system (Rank and LP) there might be issues with the MMR as well. AFAIK Riot changed something around there. They increased the tempo that a smurf gets ranked up as they said and with the introduction of Iron and Grand Master they must have changed the correlation of MMR to Rank. So they definitely touched the MMR system and how the Rank system build on it. What I am quite certain is, the people actually have this MMR. Matching mmr is easy enough. I'd rather assume that their MMR is fucked, or their rank is not matched properly. As you said you notice the skill difference. So I assume the first option. Also keep in mind the season just started to we have many people with decayed MMR that find back into the game. So the match making is fucked anyway but this will even out. If there acutally was a problem with the MMR mechanism I am pretty sure Riot would tell about it. But so far they didn't what we know is they fucked the Rank/LP link. If you encounter such games again. Have a look a previous seasons of these players if you are severely miss matched you can now be certain if it was a wrongly given out rank or if the system actually matched you with somebody who should not be matched with you. And keep in mind. The system will only prioritize strict rank equallity in soloQ Ranked, normals and especially flexQ suffer from occasional miss match due to other reasons. If you find the problem persists we might have to try to find contact to some Rioters and fix it with them. For my personal experience, I had my lost ames and right now am on a weird winning streak. I am matched with people slightly worse than me against people equal to my rank. Thats basically what I expect after a win streak. And rarely I encounter underperforming players anymore. In the beginning weeks it was hell but it event out now. So i can not confirm your experience but I will believe you that you actually encounter miss matches and I will try to find some more information. The trouble is, many people are just crying here with no basis, so I am inclined to first question their reports. Most don't actually experience what they are reporting here in they way they report it and definitely not as regular as they clam. THis happening from time to time is normal due to DueQ existing. But it should be a once every dozen of games experience.
: Wtf? Support items? Just wow.
I always detested the income solution with specialized items. I do detest the jungle items for the same reason. It is an issue that gets the game stuck in certain structures and with the no CS -Top lane we now see that the sultion is not even as safe as one might have thought. But I dont see the issue of supports rocking less gold. It worked in earlier season. And it works for other positions as well to play around a deficit. Compare Chars with extra gold income (clepto/kit) with normals and the other side seems possible too. But if you wanna resolve that, I considered taking the team wide gold earning and pushing part of it into a deposite available for the player (maybe multiple) with less gold. Biscally the standard gold income gets raised. For every CS 2 G or so go into this pot, and the player with least gold gets this gold over a curse of 5 minutes. Or when ever he goes to shop. I always thought it sounds nicer to bind the support to your teams earnings instead of giving him free gold from no where. This would create an incentive to help your team earning gold. Cause every piece of gold he/she earns will get deducted from that quota. So killing a minion takes the gold earned by that minion from that pool. Taking a kill will take that amount from that pool. Like this it still is possible and you don't lose money as a player, but as a team you just lost that money. So supporting and trying to not take away money will give you and your team more money. But thats all, I never spend much time on the idea since people seemed to be contempt with the current system. But with the first cracks in the current system, maybe time to think about a new solution.
: What if I place bronze 4 my first time in ranked, but I'm better than other people in bronze and climb out cause i get better from playing often? Is that the system not doing its job? I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to work. On the other hand, let's say I'm climbing through bronze, and the game decides that my win rate is too high. So, they throw a couple of golds in my bronze 2 game... is that the system doing its job? By giving me more experienced opponents just to even out my win rate? I think not.
You have some wrong assumptions about the Ranked system. Let me try to clarify. All of this you can read up on the [Wikipedia Article about the Elo Rating System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system) We know from previous systems and they 'fathers' that the first few games are weight heavier into you Ranking. So you being in bronze but belonging somewhere completely different is very unlikely already, but it can and will happen and has happend. The easiest solution would be to keep weighing the next few games after your promos still a little more compared to regular games. From Riots we know, they have systems to identify smurfs and put them into their respective MMR very fast. We don't know how the system works, but we can assume a very simple solution. When you get placed in a lower MMR than your skill level would allow you for, you will start to win and win big. It would be very easy to seek out for accounts on X games winning streak and just modify their MMR-calculation to have bigger fluctuation. This would be achieved by just switching out one variable. Should be easy enough. How exactly it works we don't know but just seeing how fast some smurfs rise will tell you it works. So there are checks and balances and even without these checks and balances you will rise to your MMR it will just take longer, but when you are better than the people you are matched with you should win vastly more than you lose and thus keep rising till you hit your acutall skill level and start losing more. With this we come to the next wrong assumption of yours. >the game decides that my win rate is too high. This never happens. As I said. it is a mathematical certainty that you will go roughly 50/50. The game decides nothing. The game sees you MMR and matches you with players of that MMR, when you win a lot, your MMR rises, thus the MMR of players you are matched with/against does to. At some point you reached your skill cap. At this point all the people in your match are as good/bad as you are. Playing against people of similar skill will always lead to you losing. It feels like losing more at first, because due to human perception bias it feels like only losing. Sometimes you also are only losing, you just hit a losing streak it happens. This is the nature of gaming. You will not win los win lose win lose... etc you sometimes you win a bunch and lose a bunch and sometimes you get really lucky and win games against people better than you, your MMR now outgrew your skill, the next enemies are bnetter than you and you are out of luck and start losing until you face enemys that are at your or under your skill level and you start winning again. So a ranking system, which then is used to match you with players of similar ranks will with mathematical certainty always hover around 50/50 win los ratio. Only for the best of the best this does not apply anymore. Since there is nobody left to beat them they will go higher than 50 and the worst of the worst have nobody to win against, nobody is as bad or worse than them so they will lose more than 50/50. The problematic thing is partially the human perception bias. And the reset at the season beginng plays part too. Also as Riot admitted there was some trouble with matching the LP gains and ranks to the right MMR brackets. This meant that people with low MMR would gain more LP per win and lose less and thus they would climb in ranks. They looked like high skilled players but they were not and their MMR was not the MMR of a high skilled player. This is why we Gold in Iron games and Irons in Diamond games during preseason and early season. Riot fixed it but it takes some time for these players to lose the gained LP again. Also coming back to the bias thing. Humans tend to focus on negative things (evolutionary thing that helped to learn prevent life threatening dangers) So we look up matches we lost and focus on the players in the enemy team that were better than us, we rarely look up the skill of players in a game we stomped and even less often matches in which out team carried us. So go through your match history and have a look how often you played with Gold 2 instead of against. How often you were placed in a match below your skill group and especially how often you beat these gold 2 players. You will be surprised. TL:DR The system works in a way that will even out at 50% win los ratio, this is not coded in, it just is a side effect of a fair enviornement. Some of this years changes with the Ladder make it appear like the match making is massively out of whack. This will even out in the next couple weeks. The human perception bias makes you focus on the negative stuff so you leave out games you profit and stomp people. Losing games is natural when you are not the best of the beast, the one that cannot be beaten. The MMR system is way more complicated than you think, but you can be certain there is no hard code for a 50/50 win lose ratio, it is a side effect of the system and this side effect actually is good even though it feels bad.
: not sure if its the same guy but i had an alistar in november that built ga and stood in bot lane behind the turret avoiding doing anything and watched us lose. The account had a bunch of match history fileld with it as well, it's really mindblowing that the system doesn't see that an account has been spam reported for inting multiple games in a row and flag it and ban it immediately. Or at least send it to one of the player support people to review and manually ban it or something.
The system does. I would ask for a few accounts to check the allegations, but that would be account shaming. The last few accounts that I reported to genuine inting, not going 0/10 in their lane but genuinely runnig it down, not what this community calls it, but buying boots plus only any dorans items 5 times and running straight to the enemy turret on my lane. Iam that specific cause in that game my team had no idea what was going on they did not know that this was inting they never had seen it before. How ever, the last two times I got an IFS message within 2 minutes while I went to have a snack or pee. So show me how long these accounts live. They don't do it long. Getting new accounts is a problem though, you have to int a few times before anything can be done against your account. I would be very interested into some of these accounts sounds to me like somebody taking accounts over and getting them banned on purpose. You said its a reddit topic? So i might google it so we can circumvent the shaming here. Brb [EDIT] Couldn't find any particular result apart from some vids of a spanish guy who had one feeding alistar but the account checks out normal. And the rest are just some old troll vids on youtube, nothing about a certain player doing it over and over again.
: As someone who has been ranked honor 5... and honor 0 at the same time while treating people the same way dependent on THEIR treatment of ME, I'll give a few inputs and insights that I've offered before and hope one day Riot will actually listen to and use to improve. First off, let me say I'm not naturally an asshole. I actually prefer to be the complete opposite. I'm the guy that's stupidly cheering on and encouraging the 2/5/0 teammate that's played poorly all game when we manage to go even in a fight... and act like he just solo killed all of skt. And on teams with low morale and building up toxicity among teammates, it actually helps a lot. We don't always make a comeback and win, but everyone's attitude improves for the most part and we have fun even if we still lose the game. That's just the kind of guy I like to be. As far as your points and suggestions, I'd say I 100% agree with the first 2. The third I'd love to agree to; however, as Riot has said they cannot give details for every single report or it would lead to abuse. Trust me... I'm a creative guy... it would work. They could still improve feedback though without going so far as to give a yes/no on every person you report. Perhaps a monthly... "we are actively investigating ## of players or have taken reform action towards them based on your feedback this month, thanks for helping us make league a friendlier place". Then there's no way to link this with players, but you can still regularly see results. Point 4... I think it should still result in honor loss (yeah, it's happened to me), but perhaps not immediate honor 0 for one time. If you get chat restriction, it's not for only 1 game of toxic chat... unless that chat was REALLY REALLY worst stuff possible you can say. And if warnings were implemented like you suggest, then you'd have plenty of time/chances to improve and KNOW you need to improve before multi-game toxicity lead to chat restriction. Point 5. I like that kind of idea and I think it would be great except they'd probably have to way up what it took to reach honor 5. Plus I can 100% say that there's honor 4 or 5 players who can be pretty rude sometimes and players don't always honor people because they're nice/honorable. And while giving out one skin... per season to honor 5 player might sound like very affordable, multiply that by how many players are out there and the numbers get really big. So I'd suggest looking into non-monetary options or alternatives too that Riot might be more considerate of implementing. Ex: higher priority in finding games (not much, but a bit) so it's like honor 4 or 5 gets you a fast pass at Disneyland sort of as far as finding your next league match. Or maybe you get to rent a skin of your choice for free once a month for a few games. This would be less money Riot is giving away for free and would even potentially boost skin sales because the player trying it out really likes skin and decides to buy. I think Riot does a great job of addressing blatant toxicity in chat and the improvements you've suggested would make it even better. But... there's a second half to toxicity which is not discussed, gets dismissed if it is brought up, and is honestly causing much of the first half. So, let's look at the dark side of toxicity... the side nobody wants to address... the side people excuse... the source that fuels much of the blatant toxicity. Imagine you're playing bot lane and the enemy mid (4/1/0 in lane, even or ahead in cs) and enemy jg decide to perma-camp you all of laning phase. To the point you literally can't go to halfway point in lane without a leblanc or elise jumping on you from min 3 to min 18. Just non-stop there denying you the ability to build an advantage in your lane even though you completely outclass their bot duo. Annoying right? Well we haven't even gotten to annoying yet. Elise will literally flash basic combo you not to kill you... but purely to delay you basing or to chunk you out so you have to miss a wave. Your mid lane is losing. Your jg will 1v4 invade enemy bot jg but won't gank for you. When he dies 1v4 in jg, he flames you for not backing him up. Mid? Will sit there freezing wave at her tower for 40 sec rather than push to punish leblanc being bot... again. Over and over. And when you die 2v4 because your mid and jg refuse to do anything about 4 man bot all laning phase? Mid complains about another bronze bot lane feeding their opponent. The game is no fun. You have 0 agency because you're outnumbered more or less the whole laning phase. And your team does nothing to punish that or to help negate that and give you a chance. Oh, and all the while you are being what I call "low key" harassed by jg and mid. Yeah, not blatant stuff that Riot does a good job of addressing... but more subtle stuff. Things where the MEANING of what they are saying is very blatantly toxic, but the just read as words at face value won't go detected by some computer system and punished. Well, it's just one match so you can suck it up and move on right? Nope. It is 50% or more of your matches for that whole month. You win bot 2v3? Guess what, this game your team is so bad you needed to be able to 2v4. Or you can win a game if you just group and teamfight with baron buff and break second inhib to do a final push to end? Your 1/9/7 toplaner spends the next 20 min solo pushing and applying 0 tower pressure (wasting 2 baron buffs and an elder dragon) while losing any 1v1. Now the other team has caught up and you alone can't carry the game. You make 1 meaningful mistake the whole game and your team loses and... blames you. If that's your experience, you can imagine why you might get a little upset. Why you might SAY SOMETHING blatant because you're fed up of teammates playing like crap, blaming you for everything while they're the ones throwing all game, and because you're sick of nothing being done to fix their low key toxicity and way sub-par play. You deserve better teammates than this. Once in awhile a game like this happens to everybody sure and that's ok. But 50% or more of your matches? That's absurd. Basically means that while hella tilted from 50% or so auto-loss rate you need to still play perfectly in every match (perfect for your elo anyways... we're not all challenger) just to avoid dropping elo. And if you go say anything like I just did here on the boards, you're met with more of that toxicity. People outright lying about what you said. People refusing to read what you say and just flaming you. Mods and others who are supposed to keep the boards civilized accusing you of things like kda shaming and other nonsense even as you explained in the post they're replying to that a 1/7/0 adc might very well not be inting or playing poorly and you'd defend them depending on circumstance. Or they'll say that if you just "got good" you'd climb or have 50% winrate and not drop in elo. So you go to website that tracks stats and look to see your performance compared with that of highest ranked diamond elo player on the champ you 1-trick. And you see that combat stats, farming, macro play, etc. you are performing far above average for your elo. In fact... you are out-performing to the same degree as said diamond player does in their elo. They have 79% winrate with that champ. You? 49% winrate... while putting up same level of superior performance... and while facing the abovementioned 50% auto-loss games. But yeah, if you just got good you'd win more lul. So what is the dark side of toxicity and how do we fix it? The dark side of toxicity is the low key toxicity that goes undetected, excused, and/or unpunished. It is also the players who either intentionally or unintentionally massively underperform in a ranked game. I know, I know... there's having a bad game. And I assure you I account for that... remember my story at the start? I'd defend that guy underperforming cuz he clearly tried even though he had a rough game. I got no problem with that type of player and them playing poorly in a game with me. I'm talking the guy who clearly and repeatedly makes the same wrong play(s) over and over. Who has 0 interest in helping his team or even allowing his team to help him. Where the guy is either clearly inting, or he's a gold elo player put in a challenger match and is being hella abused for it. If it's the first scenario and he's doing it on purpose, that's equivalent to win-trading or elo boosting (boosting other team) and should be punished strictly... just as strictly as blatant chat toxicity. If it's the latter and the player is simply placed far above their proper elo - like a gold stuck in challenger cuz placements overestimated where they belong - then we shouldn't be punishing them as far as chat restriction, temp ban, honor drop or anything like that. But it's still toxic for their team to deal with and one must wonder how they got placed so high to begin with. Stolen account or borrowed friend's account? Paid to be boosted or bought an account? Pure dumb luck? Etc. Regardless, the player clearly doesn't have the skill to be at that elo. And if the skill gap is THAT big and THAT clear, then they should be instantly demoted to more proper rank. Sure you could let system sort itself out, but when we're talking 2 full tiers or more... that's a lot of players in challenger, master, diamond, plat that have 1 or more auto-loss matches because of one person. And that spills over into their future matches especially if one or more of the players involved have a string of such matches that they encounter. One person ends up boosted themselves because they were the benefactor who got 3-4 straight auto-wins... another got 3-4 auto-losses. And now the former has a mini effect like this on their future teammates and the one who lost 3-4? They're going to hard carry and potentially boost teammates (not intentionally) that didn't deserve to win... perpetuating the whole thing on to more teammates and opponents in their future matches. So the solution is first to admit that this really is a problem. That low key toxicity and griefin exists and needs to be treated with as much passion and sincerity as Riot shows when addressing blatant toxicity.
I like this text. A little long but hey. I write long as well. Your analysis of the problem is on point, the lowkey toxicity and the dark places are what we are actually talking about. The kind that grinds you down little by little with every game. The hard core and blatant stuff is easy enough punished and also gives nice IFS massages every once in a while. It also is not just toxicity but the regular everyday grind. It is getting agitated with every game and every play of your teammates that you feel was wrong. It is often not even wrong it is you having another idea and getting wound up by it. We often read about "turret or drake" "turret/inhib or Baron" "baron or elder" "baron and drake or trying to finish" all these decisions. From seeing the regular 2/3 split for these decisions and the discussions here we know, many are equally good/bad but you deciding for one and them deciding for the other grinds you down. Nobody did a mistake, but it feels like one. And losing a game on such a difference in decision making and getting blamed for it, even though you maybe had a good reason to not try to finish but to play it slow etc. This is what often gets you and makes you flame the next guy in the next game to go 0/3 in lane within 5 minutes even though he might never had a chance. I have to say though, I don't agree with your solution. If you look at my match history e.g. you will see chuncks of streaks. In some I go very bad and recently I basically always went on killing sprees a smurf would do. I don't know why. My play has not changed. It just happens that my teams play better around me and my enemies the last couple games did not know how to handle me. But the next support I don't work with well will come. And the next top lane that feeds a Jax to 10 kills before I even meet him the first time will come, and I will go 0/5 and leave lane to end the game 2/10. It will happen. Bad games happen. And games where you will be matched with somebody who just is better than you, cause a higher skilled player dues with his friend who happens to be on your MMR or slightly below it. Nobody is to blame for this, but it will still drive you towards the point of flip. Nobody is to be punished for it, but it is good that if I don't control myself and flip to easy and to often I will get a cool down. So I would say the solution is not to punish more, but to prevent the winding up in the first place. This will not work by giving you a feel of accomplishment for reporting (feed back) it is nice to get your "revenge" but it will not really calm you down, it will just allow you to deal with it more easy, but the next game will see you just as agitated as before. It is a never ending circle of hostility that can only be broken by experiencing something truely great and even than it does not take much to jump to the wound up state again. The honorsystem won't provide relieve as well. it is a long term based system, and it will not do anything while you lost 10 games in a row and now went from your promo to the next precious metal to sitting on the brink of being trash in your bracket. No honor in the world will calm me down when I lost so many games that by now I myself become the losing player because I got tilted. The honor system has other flaws like it only rewards good play and not good behaviour but that is another topic. So how do you reduce that frustration that leads to the low key toxicity? I personally take Issue with the rank system. It is utterly arbitrary in parts. If you know how it works you will get this if you don't get this, try to read up on how LP/rank interact with MMR. 1. The rank ladder was introduced to provide a meaning full grind. Previously we had a giant elo ladder and winning and advancing ment nothing you went from place 100.000 to place 999.856. YOu jumped names you would never encounter. etc. If you lost you wouild go to 100.305. The numbers meant nothing. So the ladders was cut into chunks. During your climb you would encounter the same names,. it was meant to provide you with a meaning full climb. The ladder would try to place you in a division with people from your friends list. The Ranks in the division were meant to provide you with a feel of accomplishing something. instead of jumping nameless faces you would jump people you know and instead of bouncing between meaningless high numbers you would now bounce between a few people and also get an achievement a rank up in between. THis sounded okish, but many people critized it early on. And what do we have now? People don't care about the ladders at all. They care abpout Rank and LP, they hate the process of ranking up, promos make them feel like not gaining anyhting, after all you win your promo, next thing you see is you lose and are already on 0LP and you know what comes if you lose again. You will demote and set to a lower LP, it seems like you lose more LP than you gain, cause you could not earn them in your promo, but lose them in the demotion. That seems frustrating to many. Same goes for Divison climb. 3 out of 5 can be hard to get. Especially after you already had to win so much to get there and you know at some point you will have to lose again, if you are not a smurf you will roughly lose 50% so it seems like a coinflip and with the games you needed to win to get to the promo it seems like a coinflip with a rigged coin. Frustrating again. The ladder grind kills you inside. And now remember what I mentioned earlier. The game with a due, where one is just a bit better. He wins lane, even if it was just slightly, he wins it. He wins game. You lose, you lose as much LP as in a fair game, but this game was unfair. Why? Cause LP have no relation to the actually game but to your MMR. With MMR/ELO in the early days, you would just lose a little less elo in such an instance. And losing 15 opf 1500 does not hurt. But losing 22 of 17 setting you to zero does. As does losing 22 of 88 cause now if you have to win 2 games just to get to the promo where you have to win 4 more. It feels harsh. Where going 1500 to 1478 and back to 1501 and 1523 and back to 1503 does not really feel to bad. Nothing happend. 4 games into the drain, but not to bad you could have gotten bad luck having a just been promoted and now getting demoted and having to win 4 games in a row just to get back where you were, while you MMR looks like I described it for the old system. So eventually you will start to gain more, if you manage to keep winning, but you rarely do. The system just feels very unforgiving. And here comes the low key toxicity, ranked has become a pool of complaint about how much you lose and where you are and think you should be. I liked the old system more, it showed you where you are, it could show you how fast you fell or andvanced accurately and this give you a better feeling where you should be. And people are so afraid of losing their promo now. Every game you ready "thanks ... always idiots in promo games" it has become a freaking meme by now. Promo games are the root of all ranked hostility i'd argue. TL:DR, don fight the symptom, fight the infection, fight the root of frustration. League is not only a team game, but one of the games where you are very reliant on your team. Going OK will lose you your game if somebody went bad, cause now you have to fight a good guy as an OK guy. And going Good will not automatically grant you a win, another good guy can shut you down etc, so your rank seems very influenced by your team eventhough you are the common denominator in your games. So make it seem less punishing when you lose a game cause your team lost, and hostility towards your team will go down cause, they didn't take anything from you, they just didn't contribute enough to win. The single game should not determine your standings or feel like it, your performance over several game should and the system should point this out more.
: Really? Doublelift or Dardoch (cant really remember) talked with Travis Gafford in a interview, and they mentioned that soloqueue is a terrible place to get any progress with practicing picks for on stage. They are forced to only be able to practice picks in scrims, nothing more and nothing less.
Thats why all the pros never play solo Q then... oh wait... Show me the video I need the exact wording, but I am pretty sure, deducting from your wording, it is as I said about pratciting the picks, so what works. You cannot practice this in SOloQ and that is what I said, but you can practice how it works. You practice mechanics. SoloQ is as good a place as the practice tool for that, but it also gives bragging rights and moving targets plus the advantage of playing from a losing or winning perspective. And as I said SoloQ does not teach a pro how he has to play in a game with his team, it is individual training on feel for CD timings, combos, patterns and reaction. To drive this point home further when i looked for the respective interviews you mentioned I found this very old talk "You have to understand that in solo queue, anytime you die it's almost exclusively your fault. You can always play better and you can't change your teams. I think it's stupid the way people approach solo queue by just saying 'Oh, my team sucks.' **You don't play solo queue to get your team better, you play solo queue to get yourself better. And by getting yourself better you're able to carry your team**, raise elo, and then your teammates will get better." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPGnF7vJ4Sc#t=882 I marked the important area. So to not be taken the wrong way again TL:DR SOLOQ is for mechanics, scrims are for teamplay, strats, tactics, -> everything but mechanics.
: Because people would stop playing the game if they are fine with their rank. Not only promos are rigged. The fuckin forced 50 % winrate is the scummiest thing ever. I had 75 % winrate and the system punished me with 3 X 30 % winrate teammates. Riot can fuck off when they punish you for flaming but they put you trough toxic environment on purpose.
Show me proof of that. The system is not forcing you to go 50/50, it is a sideeffect of an effective rank system. you going 70% in the firstplace is the system not doing its job by giving you enemies on your level. Prolly that 70% win rate was you smurfing. Sure you will win constantly until you hit the wall of your skill and start to slowly go towards 50% It is a mathematical certainty that if you play long enough against people of your skill you will end up crawl closer and closer to 50% The onyl problem is the best of the best don't have anybody to bneat them so they will start to close the distance to 100% while the worst of the worst will come closer to 0% since they have nobody they can beat. With the effect of teams being euqialized in skill, this is deminished slightly but still present and observable when you watch the best 1k players. The rest will stay roughly around 50% some more or less but the closer you get to the average rank of the community the more certain this is. Also this effect happens quite fast it is a exponential curve, like the bell curve, it represents very little players at the edges and over 90 are represented between 40-60 wr.
: Pros in NA cant even use soloqueue for practice because the matchmaking is terrible.
That not only wrong but I would assume a blatant lie. First of all they play soloQ to pratice certain stuff. You can see them spamming a certain champ from time to time. Mostly mechanical stuff where the overall play is not that important but learning stuff like using Caits Headshot-Autocancel thingy works everyswhere even in a losing game. Second they skirmish other teams cause on stage they are not SOLOQ but Team 5v5. So they pratice teamplay. After all with mechanical superiority there is not that much to gain, since a Faker can be shut down when his team is to stupid to not allow the enemy to gank and roam to him 24/7. So you train how to put pressure on the map, where you want it, how you curves develope, what team comps you like. After all even with them playing mostly strong meta picks, the pro meta is different from the Solo meta and this is partially due to some champs playing differently in a 5v5 enviornment and also due to personal preference. You seen the rise of Yasuo lately? There is no good reason pros play not on 9.3 where he got buffed by the side. Also they didn't pick him up right away after 8.11 it just started with the new season, cause prolly some people liked how he played in the team comps they played recently. So don't compare pros to soloQ it never works.
Madjack01 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Buzzkillington0,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juUu6IXN,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-02-09T04:06:41.258+0000) > > You can only freeze when the allied wave has less minions than the enemy wave, so it pushes to you. If you tank the wave and stop it from reaching your turret and stop the enemy minions from dying, you can pretty much freeze forever. If the enemy wave becomes too big, trim it with autos (no aoe spells) so you don't take too much damage when you try to punish your enemy. > Freezing only works if you're ahead, otherwise the enemy can just all in or trade with you, push the wave to your turret and break your freeze. LOL I've seen plenty of guides where freezing was discussed with calculations of minions, minion position and relative position in the lane with last hit recommendations added to it. This is the first time though I found the basis of freezing easy to understand. To my defense I main support though.
Thing is, there is a specific amount for specific places. When you freez in middle, you just need the enemy minions to have more HP since they all arrive with 100% and you last hit them (help with about 1-10% of dmg) you need the enemy to have a few more minions so his wave keeps pushing. The gist is, you need the enemy wave to slow push against you. As soon as your minions die, you tank them until your next wave arrives. The specific calculations come when you wanna reach a specific point in lane with maximum efficieny. You don't really need it unless you want the perfect play. You can tank 20 minions anywere in lane and wait for your wave to take the tanking over, but this will slowly grind your health down, so you want as little minions on the enemy side as possible but as many as needed to still kill your lane. The closer you are to your turret, the more the enemy needs, since your minions arrive faster (due to that place being closer to your base) so they can help out faster. I know this gets a little too much but it is a simple concept. The gist is, the closer to your turret you wanna freeze, the more of an advantage you have to give the enemy wave and the more you will have to tank since there is less leeway for you to let them push you, since the tower will start to attack at some point and break the freez. If you wanna learn freezing, learn proper last hitting. That means not CSing, but really only taking the last hit. necessary if you are really good, even wait for your caster to already send a killing blow and just before it arrives you take the last hit. this way you make the most out of your time. With this the enemy will basically always push just stand infront of the minions, don't let him get close, you now got a freez and can deny him farm. But don't trade, you dont wanna trade in a freez unless you are more than just alitte ahead.
: > [{quoted}](name=DerPunkt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cun7vjnB,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-08T22:47:06.627+0000) > > So you mean the game where I mind my business under my turret and a {{champion:77}} just comes running at me fucks me and leaves into the forest again? > > It's all about perspective. So a Vayne will condem you away. But most other ADC will just run from Udyr. What did people say when ADC where shit after 8.11? Adapt like every other lane. So just respect Vaynes area of the map and you are golden. It's not about perspective it all. Certain champs are supposed to be good at certain things. Instant gibing a juggernaut/fighter isn't something a ADC should be good at. Udyr is very bad it certain aspects of the game like teamfighting which Vayne is very strong at. It's about balance and trade offs.
>It's not about perspective it all. Certain champs are supposed to be good at certain things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZDJqpFspmg Vayne is THE duelist not only among ADCs but in the game. She is made to win 1v1 trades. That is the one certain thing she is supposed to be good at. Vayne has real trouble when she cannot just condem her target or keep it at range. When you send two, she has to make a decision, and sure when you send a low DMG and a high DMG target, she will go for the DMG threat to later deal with the other, and yes when you miss your CC you are doomed. But have you ever fought a Master Yi on whom you missed everything. Doesn't work either. You know I am with you that Vayne is in a strange spot, but telling me that she is good at what she is supposed to be good and and there for needs a nerf is kinda strange. I am more with you when we go at it in terms of, her laning phase does not to be as weak as it once was supposed to be and that she has a to easy time dodging well placed skill shots. I will listen to that, but telling me you lose in a 1v1 against her, just because you are used to win this with Udyr is just bad, she is a freaking RANGED Duelist, of course she wins against a Melee duelist. Thats her whole point.
Bârd (NA)
: {{item:3124}} needs addressing. % HP true damage is fine. The problem is that it's balanced around happening every third hit, not every other hit. That and her Q/R buff. I'd much rather see Vayne get her AD steroid get buffed back to its former power than play another game against a hypercarry I can't click on.
I am with you on that. When I play Vayne it actually feels very weird how every target basically goes down in the same speed. Just very... unnatural. And I get the frustration of tanks. And the argument to take a bursty poke comp against a Vayne also kinda falls flat. Games should be skewed by champ select but not won by it. So working on Vayne will probably come at some point. What I really don't get is, why all the complaint surfaces now. It is not like this Q buff changed how MAINS play her. Vayne always was a slippery ADC, but every time she presses Q she cannot use half her kit for quite a while. (Since her W is just a passive and dependend on AAs she cannot utilize it when not AAing) So what I read from Vayne mains alot is, the Q/R buff didnt change anything since you need to attack, it just helps to have it a little bite more available. But a good Vayne will just R and AA you into oblivion and only use Q to dodge or finish. Something she could do before as well. A dodged spell is a dodged spell, no matter how fast you can dodge again, it always depends on how fast the dodged spell comes from CD again, and most didn't before vayne Q was ready even before the buff. So Vayne prolly was strong for quite some time with people not realizing (hidden op) and with some burst dmg toned down in the recent patches she could surfce, since she now can AA again (lack of range meant she would often die before even getting into a position to attack like many ADC did) So is the problem Vayne? Lack of counterplay, to strong, lack of meaningfull choices against her? Or is the problem the overall state of the game? Weak state of counters, meta dominated by favorable matchups for her, lack of viable champs to address her powers, runes favoring her strenght in particular? Does Vayne need to be addressed or does top lane need to be addressed?
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cun7vjnB,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-08T22:09:22.879+0000) > > I'm playing the game where someone CCs the ADC during Lethal Tempo. Yeah, it's also the game where i'm walking through my JG as a fed {{champion:77}} and i turn the corner only to get condemned into the wall and die before i can even really move by someone who is a full item behind me. Not like Vayne can go invisible or dash around every other second to avoid CC either right?
So you mean the game where I mind my business under my turret and a {{champion:77}} just comes running at me fucks me and leaves into the forest again? It's all about perspective. So a Vayne will condem you away. But most other ADC will just run from Udyr. What did people say when ADC where shit after 8.11? Adapt like every other lane. So just respect Vaynes area of the map and you are golden.
: > [{quoted}](name=AjXtar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cun7vjnB,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-02-08T02:50:59.480+0000) > > stacking armor against vayne or catching the invisible vayne. HAHAHAHAHAHA {{sticker:vayne-pose}}
Verxint (NA)
: Ah yes another lane matchup where winning is no longer at all in my control and depends on someone else completely. I totally love those and find it to be a fun and engaging experience
Welcome to bot lane. Just on top I guess
AjXtar (EUW)
: >we should have the best damage to compensate for that huh? Why should this be a thing. ADC have the long range and the supports to keep them alive.
the support is not a balance consideration, at least not a fixed on. ADC plays bot because Marksman are the most vunerable class, not only in early but in late aswell. They need some help to survive laning. This wouldn't be a problem, if two Marksman fight it out it would be as every other lane but with jungle existing this is not the case, so this would be a farm lane for ganks and roams. thats why they got the support. Another part of it is the objective on bot lane. In early lol without herold you wanted good dragon control the more players the better. A mana dependend champion is bad for this. An tank would not ad anything while trying to take it down quick. So you put the ADC and his support there, especially with enchanters you can take down the dragon very quick. So this is how the positional meta developed, and this is why the ADC has the support, not because Riot balanced it this way. Riot just embraced this balance somewhere around season four? With the positional Queue. Beforehand Riot refused to set this positional meta in stone. And as I see it now they Kinda regret that, since with the positional meta came the class meta. So now it is not the ADC on but but it needs to be some sort of DPS ranged char. With mana being a very easy to get stat we saw the rise of eg Ziggs on bot lane. The mana barrier was lowered, so now he could help with drake even if he got shit on in lane. Thats also a reason why Yas works as ADC, no mana and dmg on AA so he can help with dragon Okish. But you still have the barrier of being able to fight an ordinary marksman which still keeps many picks out. Riot would be glad to see more versitility on bot, thats OK I guess, but with the meta being so imprinted into brains this is problemetic. I believe many have a similar problem to me. I like how botlanes plays. I like the skirmishes. I liked this in mid aswell but on bot there just is more action. Thats why I also enjoy Sup from time to time. Its still action. I also like the way ADC play. I like ranged champions. I was never much of a tank player and never liked the power fantasy of deleting that assassins play. I like consitency and I like skill shots. Thats why you find me mid and bot most of the time. And bot very likely I will play something with skillshots. Kai'sa W is a great long range finisher. I live it, Jinx has a short range poke/finisher (like i play her) and a great map sniping toll, same goes for Ashe ult. Give me an long range skill shot and a map wide one too and let me allow to play on bot and I would be glad. But as long as I get blamed on bot for not doing enough in team fights because 3 people can jump me. I think ADC is in an OK spot. I will see how it plays with the new items. Lower endgame dmg, so carring becomes less and less burdened on the ADC but therefore I get to surfife a point and click engage by literally any assassin :D so I like that. I can still skirmish in my lane. I am happy. The late game hasn't been decided by the ADC since 8.11 so I really don't see why people still complain about ADC crying for being deleted in 0,1 secs. So just let us cry. It is frustrating but as long as we keep playing ADC all is good. The problem was when people actually quit ADC (ImAQtpie) because there was nothing to gain from playing this role anymore. Now people are playing ADC again so all good.
Terozu (NA)
: Uhhhh Mexico is already part of NA.
And you just had to not understand my joke about NA not being a mono lingual server.
Terozu (NA)
: Uhhhh Mexico is already part of NA.
True... but do you have to disect my joke explaining that there are more languages even on the NA server one of the most language coherent servers there is`?
rujitra (NA)
: What, you don't think people in NA want to congratulate each other on their new bumhole?
Considering the wall isn't build yet, there is quite a big part of spanish speaking people on NA, so yeah they might do that
: > [{quoted}](name=DerPunkt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-02T21:45:36.744+0000) > > I think what he tried to say is, just think of it as a AS steroid. Just without the dmg of a second AA. > So eitgher get rageblade and have onhit double proc or go for AS items (Crit build) and get faste AAs just taking you slightly more time to compelte the stack but at the same time also adding the normal AA dmg. > > So question is, is it realy rageblade people are complaining about ot the stack passives that accumulate into big chuncks and make it harder to avoid execute dmg ranges. It's Rageblade passive, Phantom hit. This is why I listed other Guinsoo abuser.
Dude listen... read before answering and try to understand. He just said that Rage blade -> Phantom hit works in a SIMILAR manner as just AS. You either get double on hit effects (rageblade) or build AS and get double the hits. Niothing else, op did not put any value in neither am I, he just pointed out an intereseting thought. we all get how rage blade and Phantom hit works. This is an open space to have wild thoughts and this is all OP did and i understood and it is a nice addition to maybe find a way to rebalance the item. Cause just deleting it will lead to people building more AS to get stacks faster gain or to hit harder when they hit. OP just pointed that out.
: > [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-02T19:06:25.083+0000) > > Hey look. Another Vayne hit piece. > It’s not like her true damage is litteraly all the champion does. But garen having what may as well be a 74% missing hp true damage execute is perfectly fine I don't care about Vayne, her true damage is high but I can live with it, but having phantom hit reducing the hit required for her to kill me with true damage, not so fan of it. Learn the difference.
I think what he tried to say is, just think of it as a AS steroid. Just without the dmg of a second AA. So eitgher get rageblade and have onhit double proc or go for AS items (Crit build) and get faste AAs just taking you slightly more time to compelte the stack but at the same time also adding the normal AA dmg. So question is, is it realy rageblade people are complaining about ot the stack passives that accumulate into big chuncks and make it harder to avoid execute dmg ranges.
: You have no idea if Valve is bigger with them being private, but I bet to say not by much. Your second point is also subjective, where I respectively disagree.
Lol... Valve is much bigger... Valva has Dota lols biggest competitor... And csgo, the next biggest export for a long time not so anymore and they have fucking steam. Show me a pc without steam. And as specter on Bären said. Look at Dota and how shitty it looks. Riot invested a shit ton of money in the current map. Don't pretend it was a simple 5th grade art project. It took them 2 years. And they showed the process so it was even justified. I was arou d that time it was a massive improve t and every iteration looked glorious compared to what we had.
Yenn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ShirukuSama,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrpqfOhE,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-01-31T09:52:16.178+0000) > > This is not about reaction time but positioning. ADC aka glass cannon play is all about positioning. > if the ADC doesn't respect the jungler/assassin or overextends without the aid of its support, doesn't ward and has no map awareness, it deserves the punishment. > > Sorry to say, but ppl who whining about Rengar or other jungler assassins mostly don't play properly. He can literally just ult the ADC in the middle of a team fight, anywhere on the map. His ult lasts 20 seconds. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and even suggesting that Diamond+ ADC mains 'don't play properly' is ridiculous.
To add to that... what most people mean by positioning is... Stay behind. And that does not work. When you stay behind he just walks around and jumps you because from the back perspective you were out of position. And also not joining a tf is no option most of the time. It first is often weaker and 2nd... not fighting is not the point of this game. But I literally had games with 3 assissins in the other side and I just hid in a brush when my team wanted to fight or stayed in base and all 3 would just never use abilitys on the hunt for me. And just die eventually when it was to late and i never showed up. So winning fights like that is just dumb.
: Well this is a wonderful thread. Take an upvote for your troubles! Yeah, all the negatives people say about the game are blown out of proportion. League has as many bad eggs as any other game, and like in every other game's forums those bad eggs are usually louder than anyone else. I've been playing League for 6 years now, and despite still never reaching Gold in ranked (this is my year!), I've gotten a lot of helpful tips and made good friends through the game along the way. Welcome!
> [{quoted}](name=ApothNinja,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=YPz9t8Ex,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-30T15:23:05.752+0000) > > Well this is a wonderful thread. Take an upvote for your troubles! > > Yeah, all the negatives people say about the game are blown out of proportion. League has as many bad eggs as any other game, and like in every other game's forums those bad eggs are usually louder than anyone else. I've been playing League for 6 years now, and despite still never reaching Gold in ranked (this is my year!), I've gotten a lot of helpful tips and made good friends through the game along the way. > > Welcome! Also take into consideration, flame is not = flame. When you a grinding and annoyed you take flame more to the heart. It gets more agreviating when you are already on the edge of exploding. But playing with friends just having fun and trolling, nothing bad can come from that random who believes he is a pro player that would make me tilt :D
: ... can we take a moment to appreciate how your saying that 1 animation + 1 sound effect isn't a feasible thing to sell, but Riot's current monetization model is selling skins with many new animations, sounds, and color/model swaps? This is still less effort than a skin.
It is simple to change one champion to do one new thing (VGU with new animation, or skins with that) but to have a champion do different things like copying his enemy takes the same amount as it did with Sylas ult. It took them 3 month to make it work with all the ults and it still lookes broken. Sylas doing the Quinn ult is garbage if you ask me. To the other stuff that just includes one specific change to a champ, and not specific animation dependend on the enemy. Yeah it sounds simple. But first. Stuff works when you can show it off. So teemo doing something when he kills somebody sells because you want it to be heard. But I don't to hear it and get tilted by it. Also as soon as you leave the realm of sounds and come to voice, you have to translate it. And than specific animations, don't work if you need to cancle animations anyway. Or do you think (to use this threads example) Azir standing still doing the chicken dance wouldn't hinder performance of the player? And if you take a dance anmiation and make it a walk animation. good luck with making that look okish and not like somebody hovering over the ground while dancing. And if you keep it in the realms of walk animations there are just so many silly walks the ministry will allow you to register.
Bârd (NA)
: Riot, if you want money, there are a lot of things we'd be willing to buy...
Problem is for all this > * Map Skins > * Announcer Packs > * Minion Skins > * Tower Skins >* Unique Taunts > * Finishers You need a lot of resources to create it. Especially Map skins. Just remember, the map rework took about 2 years... two years it was public anyway. And I believe it took 3 more years after release of the new map that we good the winter map back. Skining this map with the quality Riot wants takes years of dedicated artists. YOu could either only have 2 more map skins, or have many that would cost several hundred $ to just make up the cost of creating them The announcer also is quite expensive to change. You have to have them on hand for a long time if something changes (turret plainting will fall soon) and the announcer has a freaking lot to say. But doable, still expensive. I would love a Quake style announcer too, but I also know that as soon as riot changes anything, it would be broken. So you can't have to many. Skins you can massproduve quite easily. And since new champs are made regularly they have to have skin people on staff anyway. So that might work but still takes time. And just imagine. Turrets are subject to change a lot. This season we got plating. A disaster for skin department if you had like 10 skins. Finsishers. I don't know about that. It is basically a exclusive skin with new animations and such, and riot lets you pay good money for that already. This all is expensive to produce. Same for unique taunts, new animations from time to time, and you have the voice worker, for several reagions on hand. I believe some of the older champs are dead by now. So thats impossible. NEver forget, skins work universally, everything with voice does not. So that rules it out anyway. The rest is prolly simple enought to implement, but still the whole tokens thing is nothing that gives you something exclusive to the event. it is just an event giving a "play more" incentive. The skins exists already, and creating incons is cheap enough. People buy Chests with the tokens, so they get something that was there anyway. The only thing thats really new is the recoloured skins they give out. And thats why the passes cost money, you basically buy a new skin, thus the cost of the pass in the same range as a skin. So I also want all of the stuff that you desrive, but it is not about the player spending more money, it is about getting the players money while not losing it in production at the same time. Its about making money for Riot not making a higher turnover.
: Yeah, we've kinda moved away from the ladder concept except for Master+. We could add it back in but many players weren't using it and it wasn't particularly meaningful. As for stats, at some point we'd love to make it so you can click a button on your position rank banner and go directly to the stats page for that position. Is that something you'd find useful?
Could you clarify on that. Wasn't the ladder the reason the Rank-System was introduced and superimposed in the Elo system in season 3? Wasn't the main line of argument to give a meaningful climb to the ranked system by providing close competetors? Always wondered about this ladder idea anyway. I never cared how I compare to 150 stranger, but how I compare to my friends list and to myself in previous seasons. So now the main point of the ranked system is left out? Can we not just go back to Elo/MMR and show that again and allocate ranks to the specific MMR, after all I don't like the indirect feel of LP gains and loses feels like driving a car with a broken steering linkage.
: It's a low standard to want the game to be at its best competitive balance? No, that's the highest standard. Appealing to the masses who aren't good enough is the lowest standard. AP Malphite is possible, but so is AD Kayle. Doesn't make it good or competitively viable.
No its a low standard to balance sport only around 1% of its competitors. First for at least 50% this is just a game. They play ARAM ARURF and sometimes Noramls and want them to work. These people pay for skins and buy RP. Not only should the game be fun for them as well, it ought to make fun for Riot to make money. Or at least for the last 7 years it had to with the arrival of legit big score sponsorships in LEC LSC it prolly can live of that soon. But thats another story. Second, even if balanced around pro play, it can still be balanced for the masses on other aspects. Just look at how it works right now, pro play gets updates with about a 2 weeks delay, so there don't have to be any hotfixes for broken shit, that normal players have to find first. Third, why are you so stuck to AP Malph... it is very strong. Yes as a Tank Malph is mostelikely stronger, but especially in Pro play it never was about raw numbers, thats why stuff like Kalista or Tham Kench was such a problem. Its more about kit. AP malph just does not bring anything different to the table for pro play than Tank malph. Malph is played for his engage. Even if shit on in lane, he still knocks 5 people up and enables shit like Yasuo or since Yasuo is not played much in pro play, just CCs enemies with the only kind of unshortable CC (Knuckup/Airborne/Suspended) which can be important. So there is no reason for it to exist in pro play as AP malph but a good one in solo Q where you play alone against 5. Last a little side note from me. People have to stop to see balancing as a thing based solely on skill when it comes to its effects. It more often than not comes down to, coordination. In SoloQ you are solo, so AP malph is nice, he can kill, in pro play you are a team so you don't need to carry, you got a team to work with. And than Tank malph is stronger. So just think about balance in Team/solo perspectives and you will get some new insights. Other than that I am on the side of balance for pro. But still, you can balance for low, if you get the chance, thus it is nice that AP malph is no thing anymore. I saw it, it annoyed me. Its over. Nobody says it was good. it just was played because it was strong, and especially Malph mains tend to like to play malph a little different from time to time after 1k games of Tankiness that OK. So you can stop being the edgelord pro balance advocate now. If you keep insisting on proclaiming offmeta does not exist and work from time to time. show your OP.GG and proof it never happend to you.
: cool, find a website showing people are building that in high elo.
When the game is only healthy when High elo looks normal but your games are spammed with assassins vs ap build native tanks... OK thats a low standard. AP Maph is possible, there are more reliable builds, but it works, and it was seen a lot on different skill level.
: > [{quoted}](name=Karfuss,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aUo0H8U,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-01-28T03:51:50.862+0000) >and they don't rely turning their pistols into ridiculous gatling guns. {{champion:236}} presses r Just was a little funny, your point still stands of course.
kargish (EUW)
: The idea is not bad Imo he's simply overtuned. Heals too much and does too much damage. Also, hooks are never useless. Ever.
What do you think about the slow his hook applies. To me his hook is worse than any other due to the slow. Yeah a BC will knock you right up, and a Tresh flai, but than you can run, while a pyke you either flash right away, so he will get you with his stun, or you flash the stun, but now the ADC comes in. Only other hooks that are that obnoxious are Nauti Hook into stun and slow combo, but hey he needs to hit you or die by pulling himself in.
Divewing (OCE)
: That argument does not apply in ranked. I think there should be a measure of "this is too shitty to play against" that is factored in to balancing, even for ranked, but it should not be the determining factor
I am not to sure about it. Or in otherwords You are kinda right. the question is how much FUN there needs to be. And how much frustration is allowed. After all playing Yasuo is a lot of fun for many people. Question is when does it get to much? At this point I am convinced riot accepted Yasuo is hated, they know he is to unfun to play against in their own measurement system aswell but they hate admitting it. So they just role with 5 bans per team. So ban him if you hate him so much. Also since he is no problem in pro play and I actually don't really get why, people always tell me how he does not work in teams etc, but I have never seen it, so I would like to see him played a few times to grasp why he does not work there better. But nvm, so sicne he is he no problem there, there actually is no urgengy to backpaddle. But just look at what happend with Akali, the hate grew out of control and she was a problem in pro play as well. So there they had no chance. I believe Yas is just at the right spot of being a problem, but not one to be dealt with.
: The more down votes I get the more easy it is to tell who can't win against Yasuo XD My goodness if you have an opinion back it up with something besides lack of competence You know he's in his minion wave just let him push up and then harass under tower. You're probably not going to meet pro Yasuo's with your attitude. {{champion:157}} Listen to a Yasuo main how to counter one instead of arguing why I'm wrong actually figure out for yourself why you keep losing. I can give advice actually clear cut advice, I'm not giving it here since that's off the point of this comment. And I do defend this champ and others that's no different than someone defending their mains.
Why should we forbid killing. Just learn to counter the attacker. My goodness if you have an opinion back it up with something besides lack of competence You know a killer has to reload at some time, just let him in and make him miss untill he reloads. You're probably not hung to meet hired gun with your attitude. You get the point? It is not about not being able to win against Yasuo it is about not having any fun playing against him I can give you some basic problems I have with him from an ADC perspective. He renders me completely useless in teamfights with his windwall there is no counterplay to this. It is basically like a Taric ult to me. He also renders most of my ults useless when I try to snipe him. His windwall for me is like an hourglas. I as a farm intensive role have no choice but to surround myself with minions. I wanna farm, I have to stand in lane, and I cannot kill my minions. I can try to freez, what allows my enemy to roam. So I most often have no choice but to be in danger. Having to face a Yasuo in mid game means for me, I have to retread. There are good arguments about how is Tornado can be dodged, thats all good but it leaves out the side that his goal is to hit me. So like every skill shot you can't dodge all otherwise if all skillshots were 100% dodgeable they would be useless. Even without the tornado engage, he can just dash through the minions and stick to me. So I cannot face him The most bullshit is being invunerable when he stands in his freaking windwall. What fucking direction comes this wind from to block everything from all sides. I am a strong advocat for giving his Windwall several reworks. First, Visual: I wanna see the area that is protected. The winwall is drawon in a straight line with curled edges. That bullshit. It behaves like a half circle. I wanna have that shown to me so I have a clear visual indicator where I can stand to hit. 2. Directionality: I don't like how he can stand in it or move through it. It is ok as a devensive mechanism, but by god, when move around it, I wanna hit something. Nothing is as frustrating as having to move a mile for him to make a step and still be good while waiting for his CD. And last, I hate his CC. It is not OK how he keeps me in air. He has the longest CC in game. That is bullshit. Even a weak Yasuo and a bad player is valuable just for the amazing CC. Why is it the longest CC? Its only one second. Simple. If he knocks up himself with tornado it is quite simple to get close to 2 seconds with 1 sec knuck up and 1 sec suspension. Thats only two secs max you ask. Ashe has 3,5 stun on her Ult. Why is yasuos the longest than. Well ever pared it with other CC. The best case scenario is a Malphite with his quite easy to hit 1,5 knuckup. with 1 sec for last breath we are at 2,5 secs. Still less.. but just imagine he would tornado first... Which is quite easy to setup in such a game. He gets the 3,5 secs. Why is it the longest now? Its as long as ashes stun... Just wait... there is more Airborne and Suspension are the strongest forms of CC the game has to offer! They are immune to Tenacity! So just getting Mercs will reduce ashe's arrow to 2,45 secs which is already less than the Yas ult on Malph ult.! And There are numerous ways to deal with ashes CC. It can be dodged, it can be cleansed. All that does not work with Displacements like Airborne and suspension. Ever tried to flash a Nautilus Ult... good luck with that. Easy setup for the Yasuo to ult in. and render AT LEAST one player useless for at least 2 seconds. And I haven't even started about how much it hurts. So one of this is just to many. I am absolutely Ok with the shield. People hate the shield cause they manage to play around all of the above and than Yas gets a free lifeline. thats just frustrating. For me he is to well equipped. In Short his additions to a team are Tanking/Protection with his windwall that is ridiculously long. Engaging with his Dash into Tornado ability and ult follow up Protecting/Casting with quite long duration CC that is uncounterable and easy to introduce into teams Assassination skills with a tick of AoE Thats just to much. At least one of them has to go. They are all good to work for him personally but they work for the team. My suggestions would be Leave his personal strenght but lower the team effect. For me the best sollution would be to rework the windwall like braums shield. A directional shield that just protects him and not freaking everybody. It would allow to counter him with movement. He would prolly still be safe from most directional dmg (all long range marksman) bit a Vayne could at least try to touble around him to get on his back side. Also The rest is frustrating but OK. His uniqueness lies in the setup and execute I would say. You have to play around it. THats OK even though the CC seems very broken to me. Also just introducing some way to counter his followup CC would be fine with me aswell. Than you would go for his team/cc side. And than him protecting his team would also be OK. All in all Yasuo is not the bane of league, but he is the most frustrating champion to face, he has all and gets all. And even with a perfect outplay he will either get away or just turn on you from time to time. He is not unkillable. Far from it, but it takes up sooo many resources to address him especially in low elo, where people underestimate ranges, dmg and folloup.
: Not necessarily, at the very least, not when balancing a competitive game.
Thats just plain wrong. I know some people like to believe it, because there are so many people grinding and losing the fun, but no GAME ever was created without the purpose of creating a pleasent experience which is described as fun. As soon as a game stops being fun to its audience they stop playing it. And yes some people have fun playing chess, some have fun playing tabletennisfootball. Some play utlimate frisbee. To further bring that point across. Just look for all the people that make videos about how they ending their league career because it is just no fun anymore. And yeah there might be some pro's who have basically no fun, that what happens when hobbies become work. The fun is spoiled, but deep down they still like it. I wanna see you create a competition that is not fun and make it a big thing. It is impossible you can have some minorities getting their fun out of just being good at it, but it will never become as big. You forget that several million people play league and only a few thousands play it professionally. Not even 10% it would claim strive to become pros anyway. They just wanna have fun. And without the fun playerbase, the pro base would not be where it was. Ever watched any minority sports event? They have no money at all to drop on their pros and the champion ships are literally held in community centres.
: what's a better cc then a knockup that he can have every 4 seconds that has no mana cost
U know what really grins my gears. I am not certain but isn't his Tornado followe by his ult (when don right in the last instant) the longst CC that is in game? Granted he is basically CC'ed aswell while ulting but also untargetable and I cannot even heal.
: So basically, you don't have any objective reasons for changing him, just your subjective opinion that he prevents you from having fun.
Though you are right with pointing that out. Isn't this what League breaks down to on core? Having fun?
: isnt jinx literally "im so edgy i have a bazooka"?
No jinx is "I am so edgy, I'lö make you edgy by placing your jaw on an edge and jumping on your head -> lol"
Krayzie (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tentakill Illaoi,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=r9k2gfTV,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-01-21T14:18:29.176+0000) > > He's literally a man with a sword. Jax is man with a lamp!
Urf is a MANety with a Spatula :D I love Urf so much {{sticker:sg-jinx}}
: > [{quoted}](name=nerf ryze more,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=r9k2gfTV,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2019-01-21T22:01:25.568+0000) > > Was Xerath ever present too? Not his attacks, **Xerath** As a xerath main that has been playing against riven/irelia/yasuo all season this trailer is honestly depressing. I'm honestly surprised they didn't include zed or akali for good measure. Feels like riot is heavily promoting annoying flashy champions that are unfun to play against by design. At least the jhin part was cool.
Jokes on you... look again akali is in awaken :D
King Lego (EUNE)
: It's been like this since season 8 really. Even winning doesn't feel like it was hard earned. It's sad really. Btw your name... Code Lyoko? (Because Xana)
I like since season 8... I mean we still are not in season 9 for a few days/hours :D SO....
: > [{quoted}](name=DerPunkt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fL1frwbt,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-01-20T00:09:06.730+0000) > > Who? Tell me who needed 1 AA on her with which items. Basically tell me the iteams AAs don't make that much difference depending in char. And no Lucian X süell into double AA is not a one shot right click. > > I can tell you, yes with Jinx I am certain with Q I would have hit the 3 necessary AA with out her using flash she is dead. Question is who is waiting for me to AA3 times to do the same with me? Why does it have to be that game? They were behind, full build AD certainly could have. The Eve was full build AP.
It does not have to be that game. I just wonder which ADC can one-AA-shot another char. And... no a fullbuild Jinx Q against a lvl 1 Mini-Gnar without items. Roughly the same level roughly the a usual gold discrepancy. I just call BS on "it is OK she oneshot, cause she so squishy she is a oneshot for ADC"
: Eve: Void staff -40% mres Allure: -35% Mres Sorc shoes: -18 Mres Morellonomicon: -15 Mres AP: 900+ Runes: Electrocute, Sudden Impact, Eyeball Collection, Relentless hunter (assume full stacks) Gathering storm (oh shit that's like 119 more AP with Rabadans synergy alone), and Absolute Focus (uhoh, 56 more). Add in all the synergy with the Rabadans since she spared NO expense on defensive stats pushing out any offense and yeah...This SHOULD actually be this way. 1 Squishy boi: 53.4 Mres 1 Squishy Boi Spirit Visage: +55 Mres 1 Squishy Boi Null Magic Mantle: +25 Mres =133.4 Mres (141 due to other factors, but we didn't really factor in eve minute details either) 141-75%=35.25-39= -6.75 Mres...RIP So he's taking true damage from someone with 900+ AP because she DID land her Allure in this case so all her damage would effectively be true damage for the duration of Allure. Contrast that to him having 49.35 mres had he not been in a position to let her land her allure and attack him while his team was behind...Pretty huge difference between that and -6.75. Can't blame the game for him being out of position. Champions need the tools to close out games when they full build and synergies keep stacking on eachother, that's what happened here. An ADC full build by contrast would have 1 shot her with a right click.
Who? Tell me who needed 1 AA on her with which items. Basically tell me the iteams AAs don't make that much difference depending in char. And no Lucian X süell into double AA is not a one shot right click. I can tell you, yes with Jinx I am certain with Q I would have hit the 3 necessary AA with out her using flash she is dead. Question is who is waiting for me to AA3 times to do the same with me?
Syrile (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DerPunkt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sVrm68EA,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-18T19:14:16.796+0000) > > don't let your judgegment get skewed by my match history. I know there is little mage play, but I have done some on another account and my team, they never had a complaint about mana. > > And isn't assassins clearing their lane with spells a blance thing? So It is a long time I regularly went against a Zed with my trusty viktor or Ahri, but when they use their kit to push you all in, when they don't use it you push by using just some spells. > Well to me it will stay the way, Ludens Echo solves all mana trouble there ever will be. So... hm Maybe if I see some more voices mentioning something the like of your argument. But you are actually the first If seen in a quite some time to complain about low mana. Eh.. I am never too impressed by the "other account thing" really. If you played any wave clear mages, it is extremely easy to wipe your mana out instantly if you try to keep up with any of the assassins that have every advantage. And I think you are only really paying attention to part of what I am saying. If you think that an assassin should have better wave clear, better roaming, better sustain, better one v one, more lethal, and well superior in every way, you are just saying that mages should not be viable.
Yeah and you are saying something nobody else has ever mentioned to me and claiming mages need more mana, with the mana that Ludens alone grants a mage you can basically remove mana if you follow through. Maybe I will do some normals and do some mage play have crates to earn anyway. But the last time I played a mage, (Lissandra bot lane) I had no mana issues at all eventhough I cleared with her Q next to exclusively and this was after her passive change. Also with Ori against a Yas in Nexusblitz I also didnt run into any limits at all. But I am not sure if mana reg is the same in that mode so I can not tell. Also I Corki considered a Mage? I believe not... but with him on bot I had some issues but not to many, but than again I didn't build Ludens on him. So yeah maybe time to get some mage crates in mid
Syrile (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DerPunkt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sVrm68EA,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-17T13:04:51.494+0000) > > Am I so far of? > > You are actually the first person I meat who tells me mana is a restricting factor. Everybody tells me how OP Ludens is (and I perceived it that way too when I played mid or other mana dependent roles?. > > Are you actually running into mana problems? Can anybody else give me an opinion on that? I have never hear anybody complain about to little mana for most mages, maybe Anivia... but thats her freaking kit isn't it? Well, considering your match history shows almost exclusive ADCs, with no mages played in mid lane for months now, that really does not mean a whole lot. My statement was actually different than what you are saying here though. Specifically, for a mage to keep up with an assassin in wave clear, they must burn through all of their mana very fast. Starting off, most assassins auto-attacks will kill minions faster than a mage by a large margin. This means they clear faster. And a large amount of them also have no mana and very good wave clear abilities. Or have mana and very strong wave clear but does not take as much mana to clear them and actually clears faster. This allows for them to impact the game more while having a much more serious threat to kill you. It is an unbalanced system that is very clear if you play the roles.
don't let your judgegment get skewed by my match history. I know there is little mage play, but I have done some on another account and my team, they never had a complaint about mana. And isn't assassins clearing their lane with spells a blance thing? So It is a long time I regularly went against a Zed with my trusty viktor or Ahri, but when they use their kit to push you all in, when they don't use it you push by using just some spells. Well to me it will stay the way, Ludens Echo solves all mana trouble there ever will be. So... hm Maybe if I see some more voices mentioning something the like of your argument. But you are actually the first If seen in a quite some time to complain about low mana.
Syrile (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DerPunkt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sVrm68EA,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-01-16T14:46:38.618+0000) > > So you haven't been around in the early seasons? When ever I am not playing bot lane. I never run unto mana trouble. I remeber times where Ahri had to go {{item:3174}} just to be able to wave clear with Q. Times where you had to decide to go for AP or Mana, either lots of dmg or consistent dmg. > > I don't see where mana has been gutted. Everybody plays like a mana less champion. > > Ever tried to play some of the mana champs that got neglected? Ever tried to play Sivir? This is a mana problem. But thats how she was designed. 3 Qs and you have no mana left. That is real pain. at the same time... her Q is painfull too :D I mean.. there was this huge patch that halved the growth rate of most mages... That pretty much gutted mana for them. And there is no penalty at all to the ones that have no mana and even better clear and better kill threat and better roam potential... All in one? Or even one that has almost all of those advantages.
Am I so far of? You are actually the first person I meat who tells me mana is a restricting factor. Everybody tells me how OP Ludens is (and I perceived it that way too when I played mid or other mana dependent roles?. Are you actually running into mana problems? Can anybody else give me an opinion on that? I have never hear anybody complain about to little mana for most mages, maybe Anivia... but thats her freaking kit isn't it?
y0r1ck (NA)
: Lol they will learn that a farmed Caitlyn is scary. That person won't go near a strong Caitlyn without protection again. That seems like reasonable learning to me. Strong champion killed me when I got too close? Better give them some more respect. how is that not learning? If he didn't know cait could do that, now he knows and he'll respect the champion appropriately.
No, I'm afraid that is not how it works. Learning to stay away is no option in LoL, sure it makes sense. But in the end you have to do something or else they will just run at your nexus. So there needs to be learning. Also this goes for both sides. It is not about. "Hey that cait just deleted me in 1 sec with 4 shots." Also... >If he didn't know cait could do that, now he knows and he'll respect the champion appropriately. Did you know? Did you respect caits for that? I believe not even in challenger you can see a flawless executed 4 shots headhsot auto chancel in a fight. He has to learn what enabled a Cait to do so. So he can win against her and not surrender the game. Also he/she might want to do it by themselves. So having a bronze Cait that does not even understand the concept of AAing froma Brush to get double headshot rate, against a Headshot-auto-canceling cait makes no sense, he will not learn a thing, because he will not have a understanding what happend. He will learn to stay away from challenger, but than again, what does that give one? Nothing. So it is very important to not over do it with the demand. There are plenty of stories on the interwebs of people who rant about MM system and how they got destroyed by better players in their game. They all have on part in common. The people found high skilled players and interacted withtem appart from playing. They got stomped but at the same time played with these people more than once and got taught what was wrong. So A Bronze teaming up with a CHallenger is super cool but a bronze getting stomped will not teach him anything, will frustrate and prolly more likely will make him quit.
Syrile (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sVrm68EA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-15T14:02:25.097+0000) > > Likewise could be said than an Assasin might have naturally larger amount of kills from roams and clears because it's their job to assasinate someone and they generate bounty off that too. > > In both cases you used strength of your champion to get gold for an advantage. The enemy has to kill you through that advantage and If they do, they are rewarded - it's design that, If executed properly, stops snowball as it gives an enemy chance to use their enemy's advantage. > > Not saying the numbers were executed perfectly, but I see a lot of people constantly complain how they are punished for farming (as if until this change kill-focused champions weren't also punished for doing the one thing they are good at) as If the enemy got the bounty for free by staring at you within range. Because somehow killing someone for their bounty takes less skill than last-hitting so your farming gold is ever-so-justified while the enemy gets it "free". > > Likewise, If Theoretical Assasin is weak at clearing waves but good at clearing post-battle and Theoretical Mage is good at clearing waves but can't oneshot that reliably, your point is that the Theoretical Mage is punished for doing the one thing he's good at while ignoring that you got gold that the Theoretical Assasin couldn't have gotten because they are not good at it. If we went back to kill-only bounty, then once again only the Theoretical Assasin is punished. > > The problem here is exactly that the gold from farming must be in-line with the bounties. So that in Theoretical case, giving bounty by getting killed by Theoretical Assasin with no waveclear doesn't fuck you up so hard because they merely approach total gold you should be having from the farming itself. > > Further, this is why the "Riot doesn't listen to us about the snowball meta" complaints leave me cold. Because the only way to stop snowball is to allow enemy to use their enemy's advantage. But the moment Riot would ever introduce any system like that the complaints will turn into "Why am I punished for doing great". It's something where you'll never satisfy everyone. > > Naturally, another way to stop snowball is to ensure equality of opportunity but that might be harder to achieve. Example is this. Enemy team takes Mountain Dragon and gets explicit advantage. The enemy team can prevent them from snowballing by using the time the enemies spent in dragon pit by taking another objective for their own advantage. But that takes really good design. Mountain Dragon is by nature ethalon of snowball. Snowball is when one advantage explicitly helps you get another and another and another. The team with Mountain Dragon has explicit advantage when puhsing towers or taking Baron, being able to nullify what the other team did in the meantime. > > So If you don't want them to stop snowall this way, you have to expect them to make sure everything is designed in intelligent, strategic way with a lot of thought given in. But this is the team that solves Ornn's problems by random % Armor/MR increase slapped randomly into his passive as If he already didn't have one. So that's not happening anytime soon. The real problem is that the assassin gets more money, per kill, in this meta than you can realistically farm in such short games. Especially with the odds of getting a teammate that will feed them. And more so, most of the assassins are extremely safe and hard to kill, can harass you under turret (making farming harder) and have excellent wave clear. So much so that they roam better than mages designed for it (Taliyah anyone?) and worse still, mages mana was shredded on most of them and have to constantly back to base if they blow their mana on wave clear. Most assassins do not have to and many do not even have mana. The system is clearly geared towards punishing you for doing something that takes more strategic skill at the moment.
>mana was shredded on most of them and have to constantly back to base if they blow their mana on wave clear. Most assassins do not have to and many do not even have mana. So you haven't been around in the early seasons? When ever I am not playing bot lane. I never run unto mana trouble. I remeber times where Ahri had to go {{item:3174}} just to be able to wave clear with Q. Times where you had to decide to go for AP or Mana, either lots of dmg or consistent dmg. I don't see where mana has been gutted. Everybody plays like a mana less champion. Ever tried to play some of the mana champs that got neglected? Ever tried to play Sivir? This is a mana problem. But thats how she was designed. 3 Qs and you have no mana left. That is real pain. at the same time... her Q is painfull too :D
: They doesn't work in gaming most of the time. Reason being is that it's a game to most, not a practice or an art. People don't intend to perfect their skills, they just play and gradually improve for the general community. When you're getting stomped and your only reason for playing is to have fun, it ruins your experience and that bad mood it puts you in is just going to make you do worse and learn less. Better players are a great learning source, but trial by fire is some real bs that hardly ever works. Especially if you have something on the line, your elo, losing something even game points can be upsetting and players shouldn't have to deal with that for the sake of learning.
Nah thats not entirely true. I can realize and learn in the field of a hobby very well. Bit as this pointed out > [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y2Ga30W9,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-16T12:46:37.720+0000) > > The skill gap has to be close enough that you can recognize why you lost. If you can't understand what they did better than you then you can't improve in that area. The gap as to be small enough. In Education we talk about encourage and demand. The important part is where you draw the line to asking to much. So a learner of English as a second language in the first year might really really benefit from reading a simple short story or listening to pop music lyrics, but he will be overwhelmed by following a political debate, listening to the news or reading Shakespear. They will not learn anything but just get frustrated. So you have to encourage them by giving them task they can solve, but they should still demand some work. For example when you introduce new vocabulary in a story they have to read. Just toss in some words they might not know. They will learn by context, but spare them with technical jargon and the little differences. Its ok if they don't know the difference between a tower a turret, its important they get its a high building with a slim silhouette. In terms of LoL this is, understanding that they got killed because the enemy had flash to get close and AA them. But if they get killed by a Challenger Caitlyn with 4 AAs in one second achieved by a series of headshot-auto-cancel >### https://clips.twitch.tv/BoxyHeadstrongBunnyOhMyDog Than they will not understand what happend and they will learn nothing. Now Cait is just OP. They are so far from understanding what happend, they will not get it. They will not learn it. They are gameknowledge wise and mechanicale not on a level that makes something like this work. So for them it is not in the game and looks like a cheat. But understanding that saving at least one trap to place it under a stunned target and chain CC this way and get a headshot makes a lot of sense, this is something they will learn. This is something an Iron play can pick up from a bronze player when he ever got hit by CC and than CCed by a trap and died. He will very quickly understand how strong it is to not build a wall of traps and hope for somebody to step in but actively use traps in fights to force a headshot.
Eedat (NA)
: PSA: This abomination is about as close to a hard reset as you can get
... you do realize matchmaking is not based on rank do you? There is basically no difference in what happend this year to what happend the years before. JesusCchrist I am kinda sick of people ripping on the Rank and Matchmaking system without having the slightest clue of how it works at all. >So please refrain from going back to asking for hard resets next season. Or ever again really. See how absolutely terrible of an idea it is now? Nothing that even comes close to a Hard Reset has happend in LoL apart from season 1 to 2 I believe that time they did a hard reset, but I am not 100% certain and to lazy to google it for this low effort rambling of a post.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: It's weird, because this meta feels like S3, it's just not as fun as you'd think it would be. Sure I can blow up anyone, but anyone can blow me up too. It literally comes down to who bursts 1st, and after you blow your load you get someone elses load in your face. The thing is though, no one will ever be happy until the meta fits them the best, I'd rather we all be in the same state, oh fuck tanks are tanky, better protect the AD so he can shred him. Meanwhile when the chances arrives I'mma blow their AD up. Tanks absorb Magic damage, AD's slowly shred tanks, Mages blow ADs up. It's the circle of life. Bruisers and Assassins can still get in on the mix, but to me, the best metas are Tank/Fighter - Fighter/Tank - Mage/Assassin - Marksman - Enchanter/Tank. People will say the best Marksman will win but that simply isn't true, it's the best team that wins..
Right as in every meta it is not the OP char that wins, but the team that protects their OP char /win condition the best and at the sime time delets the enemies first. Thats why I never understood the "ADC dominated meta for all seasons so far" argument when they were nerfed. With the same argument you could nerf the nexus since after all it dominated the game much longer and more efficient. Its how you play around it. Just to net get flamed. I am not advocating for a dominace of ADC hell I'd be OK to play around my supp or assassin. It just gets old when the one you play around gets some kind of power fantasy. That was the problem with tanks, when they were unkillable, that was the ardent problem when ADCs were unkillable and that is the bruiser/assassin problem right now (in my view) as soon as playing around means using what you got on your side without thinking about it, and going for the enemies without no further consideration it gets old very quick. So I don't care around who I have to play, but I wanna make a meaning full decision if I give him a kill I could take, if I prematurely popp my heal eventhough I am on 100% if I bait the enemy so he gets away. I don't want it to be "sure" all the time. I want it to be a valuable consideration that actually has room for error. At the moment I just try to get my assassins and brust mages and bruisers fed, because if I get fed it is to easy to shut me down while my side lacks the oneshot power since it all went on my DPS and my DPS is to easily shut down.
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DerPunkt

Level 137 (EUW)
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